Building an ABM Program Live | Ep. 283

Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to Scrappy abm. This is your podcast with practical playbooks that don't break the bank. In this podcast, we dig into the exact playbooks that ABM practitioners are using today to get their first ABM program off the ground. We'll dig into how they're using their current tech stack in order to create Scrappy programs that rely more on creativity than new technologies. So if you're looking for how to get ABM off the ground in your organization in the next 90 days, let's dive into this episode. Welcome to this episode of Scrappy abm. Excited you're here today. This is actually going to be a little bit of a different episode. This comes from some webinar content that I got to do recently, and we are super stoked to reshare this here. We actually dropped the link below to the webinar, so you can actually go watch the full thing if you want the visuals. But overall, hope you enjoy this episode. And, yeah, if you've got any questions, feel free to shoot me a Message over on LinkedIn. Thanks. I'm incredibly excited for this one. This is actually probably the most exciting thing about a web webinar, like, I don't know, ever. Uh, today we're joined by Hannah from Roundtable Learning. So, Hannah, can you do a quick hi for everybody?

Speaker B: Hello.

Speaker A: Awesome. All right, we'll do more about Hannah here. Actually, we spent a lot of time talking with Hannah today. Um, but I want to go ahead and get through some quick slides so that as we start to build this ABM program, live with Hannah. Uh, like, you've got context. So that said, let's go ahead and dig into some, uh, information. Also, sorry, quick tangent. Uh, drop in the chat. Like, what'd you do over Memorial Day weekend, Hannah? Were just talking about how I cooked 30 pounds of pulled pork. Um, and I was. I had a good time. Uh, and then, uh. So talk about what you did over Memorial Day. Drop LinkedIn profiles. Drop where you're joining in from all the standard things that you do on these webinars. And then I think the most important one you can also add in is what you're hoping to get out of today. Um, you sign up for an hour. I want to make sure that we actually deliver on what you signed up for. So that said, uh, what are we doing today? So, over here at Scrappy abm, uh, we produced a lot of content to help people build ABM programs, and a lot of people didn't like the what and the why and how. We recommend Building programs, but people just kind of keep asking like, well, can you just build one so we can see how it's done? So yeah, we're doing that today. Uh, so the next hour, uh, here's going to get the most out of it. You're, uh, going to follow along. We've got some templates you should grab. Um, and then like go do what I'm showing you, but for yourself, um, I'll go ahead and give quick context. Hannah had a prep call on Friday for like 30 minutes. So I have some like basic context. And then she sent over some stuff this morning. But I'm actually intentionally going in a little blind so that everyone here can see how to think when you run up against some of the problems and the challenges that I'm sure we're going to get into today. Just as a heads up, that's how you get the most out of this. Um, Additionally, go to scrappyabm.com plan. We have some planning templates that we use for all of our clients. So go grab those next. You're here. Stoked that you're here. Many of your team isn't here. So please go message, uh, your team right now and say, I'm in an ABM session. What's one thing we should fix? And then lastly, go ahead and book out 30 minutes next week. I'm sure all of you are already slammed with it being a short week. So, uh, we book out some time next week to go ahead and put some of this information into action. Basic, um, concept that I share every time I get the opportunity to teach is information about implementation is useless. So if you don't do anything differently from this session today, you would have been better not being here. And I want this to be super helpful for you. So that said, hey, I'm Mason. Super cute family. Uh, normally I say like I share this photo because they're here and you might hear them in the background. They're actually not here today. I was sharing with Hannah like all my in laws are in town. So they're actually hanging out at my in laws house and I'm here just yelling into a microphone with all of you. So I'm excited to be here. Uh, but they're super cute still. Uh, that said, I'm also the founder of Scrappy ADM. I've sourced about 25 million in the past three years at a roughly 16x ROI. Our team on the other hand, has done 3 million pipeline and 100 million revenue, uh, 72 different AVM programs in the past three years with organizations ranging from like 1 million to 300 billion. So if you sell big, expensive stuff to bigger companies, I promise what we're going to talk through today will be helpful for you. And then we build successful programs, teach our clients how to own them, and then graduate them when they're ready, which typically takes about 18 to 24 months. Hannah, real quick, thank you for being here. First of all, um, can you, like, intro yourself and talk through, uh, what you're hoping to get out of today?

Speaker B: Yeah. So, um, my name is Hannah. I'm the head of marketing here at Roundtable Learning. We are a learning company creating training programs for Fortune 500 businesses. Um, so today I'm hoping we can learn how to better leverage ABM and see how we can set it up and get it running at Roundtable.

Speaker A: I love it. Hannah, can I tell you a little bit about why we're excited to work with you today? Why, uh, Roundtable sells, uh, into enterprise companies, Fortune 500. Um, you sell a big, expensive thing that is complex in nature and has a long sales cycle.

Speaker B: Very long.

Speaker A: Perfect for an ABM program. So I just think, hopefully, like, as we start to talk through some of the challenges that you guys are running through today, I, uh, think it's gonna resonate with a lot of people. So, one, thank you for being willing to do this. Um, two, I'm excited for the program we're gonna build. And then three, I should have given this context earlier. I shared this with Hannah. Um, I have done tons of live builds, uh, over the past three years. We've never done it as a webinar. So just know this webinar format is a new style for us. We welcome your feedback. And also just go ahead and drop questions throughout because, uh, we'll be doing some live builds and would this be helpful for everyone that's here? So, that said, I want to also give context. This is not our first ABM program ever. So if you do what we're going to walk you through today, this will be helpful for you. I pulled this one up specifically for Hannah because, you know, friends, um, also VR space, but they sell Fortune 000. We helped, uh, Kelly over at Arbor XR, who is actually still a client two years later, um, in their first year with us, they got 20, uh, 8 of their target accounts at an 89 higher average contract value, which I think pretty neat. When, um, you sell them to Fortune Thousand, you get 28 of those. Hopefully that's helpful. Uh, and we work with a bunch of other companies that are kind of these weird vertical niche SaaS companies or like, SaaS adjacent. That's how I think about it. So, all right, again, what are we talking about today? Demonstrate exactly how to build an EBM program by doing it live with a real company. Roundtable Learning. And Hannah, so everyone can learn. So what this is going to look like is going to inventory what round, uh, Roundtable Learning is already doing. Map these programs over to our progression model, find the gaps, walk through how to fill one of those gaps in, like, a lot of detail, maybe more if we've got time, and then show you how to repeat this for your own company. So if that sounds good for everybody, drop woo in the chat. There we go. We're in the chat. All right. Um, man, I think we just walked through 15 slides in seven minutes because I really wanted to spend most of the time building today. So, um, everyone, if you're here, thank you for being here. We're actually start. So, um, Hannah, how do people currently know that Roundtable Learning exists?

Speaker B: Uh, we have a really strong sales team. Do a lot of outbound. A lot of outbound. Um, we also, I would say primarily word of mouth. We have a really good reputation in the game, but outside of that, creating organic inbound leads is quite difficult.

Speaker A: Yeah. So what I'm hearing from that is we're doing a lot of outbound from a sales team perspective. And then you've been in the game for a while and you've got a good product and a good way of delivering. So as a result, you get more referrals from current customers or just like, who do you use for quick, uh, context? Everybody. They do custom content for, like, VR and AR training, um, which is super complex and super niche. Um, so again, it sounds like outbound sales and then referrals is the primary way in which you're actually generating awareness today.

Speaker B: I'd say so, yeah. Cool.

Speaker A: Um, I'm gonna cheat off my notes. What about AEO or SEO?

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, we're funneling tons of effort into that. So ao, SEO and then in general, content creation, that's what the marketing team is going bananas over. But it's getting that to stick and land, which makes it difficult, and then getting those people to hang out and convert.

Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. So we've got referrals outbound, um, SEO, aeo, and then one of the things that you dropped in kind of the prep for this was events as well. So we talk about events. Like, what kind of events are you guys doing?

Speaker B: We'll go to L&D. And then also XR space events. We kind of, we're not like hosts there. We don't see set up a big booth, but we'll go and we'll mangle and we'll chat with people while we're there.

Speaker A: Got it. So we're, we're running like a walk the floor strategy and like, you know, bump up against folks, say, hi, what do you do? Oh, that's great. Here's what we do. And then like, serendipitously, some stuff happens.

Speaker B: Yeah. Trying to target them before we head out there, set up sometimes. And then outside of that, obviously organically, however the conversation goes.

Speaker A: Cool. Okay, love that. So far we've got, uh, attending events AEO SEO. We get traffic to the website, outbound sales, and then referrals. Those are the kind of the four big ways in which we're generating awareness today.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Cool. All right, so for everybody else that's here, if you're not writing down things along with us, go ahead and start writing down how do people know you exist? And then you just heard me talk through it with Hannah. Like, the main goal of this question is just like, how does somebody go from I've never heard of like a roundtable learning to, oh, uh, I know that they exist. Um, the reason we start here is I, uh, can guarantee factually, people, uh, are exponentially more likely to buy from you and they know you exist than if they don't know you exist. So step one of every marketing program, just like get people to know that we exist. So there we go. All right. That then begs the question, um, how do you help people understand the problem that they're facing? So how do you actually, like, build the visibility around problems?

Speaker B: So we gather a lot of research about industries as a whole. We primarily serve retail, manufacturing, logistics, stuff like that. So we'll focus in on, um, training stats there, share, hey, you know, the average injury rates cost you this much, blah, blah, blah, stuff like that. And then we've done some calculators in the past to show you what kind of cost save, cost savings you can get by investing in VR. Um, and then also we try to like, reach at the more of the emotional pain points of what they're experiencing as well.

Speaker A: Okay, so to hit, hit that back, it sounds like you guys have got some really great research that you've already done that helps people identify, like, this is how painful this is if you aren't, you know, training your team effectively. Um, and I, again with our context from past clients. Like, I know that there's tons of research that goes through, uh, VR trainings, um, having exponentially higher adoption rate of actually being implemented, like, faster onboardings, ramp times for team members. So, like, you guys have all that research already kind of preloaded, and you're just like, hey, if you're struggling, like, with ramp times, you're struggling with training, you're struggling with anything good custom content helps in all of these ways. I'm hearing that correctly.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, like, you know, we can be like, we've helped x customer save in this area this much. You know, all that fun stuff. So a lot of the times the, uh, training content, it is custom to exactly what the customer wants. However. Yeah, um, there's a lot of jobs that end up being quite similar in these industries. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, I think the one thing I want to hone in on, because what it sounds like you guys have done a really good job on, again, you've been in the game for a while. You've got great testimonies, you got great results, you've got a ton of, like, proof. Um, when I'm. What I make sure that I'm digging into is, are there good, like, assets or research reports or things that highlight the problems or the pains that they experienced before they would go searching for a solution?

Speaker B: Yeah, so that's actually a good point. A lot of the times, um, our customers won't come to us with an idea for a new training program until something happens. Um, obviously there's also lots of NDAs and stuff, so we can't be going out and spilling bad tea about our customers and what they've done incorrectly in the past. So it's kind of twofold of, like, we know it works. We have the data, it works. We talk about it as much as we can without spilling. Spilling any beans.

Speaker A: God. Okay, I hadn't thought about that. So, yeah, you're. You're like, I mean, it's fortunate 500. Of course you can't, like, go spill, like, you know, I'm not gonna say a company name, but like, gigantic company, um, had a, had a, A recall that cost them $20 billion. After working with us, they now, you know, save X amount because they have less recalls on the factory floor, stuff like that.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. So it's, um, aggregated, anonymized data of what things cost them, and you stay at kind of at a vertical level. Am m I hearing that correctly?

Speaker B: Right. And the strategy I like to use mostly during our, um, content creation process is I would. I'll create Like a fake scenario of like, okay, put yourself in these shoes. You're doing onboarding. You can't get someone to stick. Um, how about you create a VR training with a job preview. Um, and the chances of that allowing someone to try the job before they actually start the job will increase by X amount based on what we've seen in the past. So. Yeah, okay.

Speaker A: So it's almost like you're creating industry. Sorry, I think of uh, I think of parables which are like stories in the bible of like examples. But like you're essentially creating like uh, scenarios where people can envision themselves but it's, it's not a real company, but it's based on like all the stories that you have. Am I hearing that correctly?

Speaker B: Yeah. I'll try to tailor my story towards the specific industries we serve and direct it towards them. Like, you are having this problem. This is how we fixed it in the past.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, awesome. So again, as we think about how we build pain and cure and uh, essentially like building up, like, hey, do you actually need a solution? It sounds like reports, um, web based assets that help them understand cost of inaction. Um, you've got industry data and then you've also got these like, scenarios that you've already worked through that are based in reality but are, you know, essentially an aggregation of. We've worked with 10 clients in this space and then you like turn that into a story of the consistent problems that they've been experiencing. Am I hearing that correctly?

Speaker B: Correct. And then on top of that we also have a lot of videos, uh, to demonstrate the work that we have done. So we'll take something that's a little more plain, Jane. Something that can be spread out everywhere where it's copy paste the same, um, kind of work that's done. And we'll give you a straight up preview of what it actually looks like because it's easier to see it in action rather than in your head.

Speaker A: I love it. Okay, so now we understand like how you help people understand the problem that they're facing. Now we get into, um, how do you help people understand that you can make their problem go away? So we, I think we touched on this a little bit. These sound like they go hand in hand, but is there anything that you're specifically doing that helps to build your industry credibility and proof that like, you're the right partner for them to go make these problems go away?

Speaker B: I would say I credit that mostly to our sales team of um, they are very excited and eager and willing to go out on site, meet these people wherever they are and physically show them our product in person. Give them live demos. They'll do that multiple times. They'll go in and it's a very consultative process during the entire um, sales cycle. So while the cycle takes a long time to close, um, the sales team is really doing more than just putting together a proposal for them.

Speaker A: Love it. Is there anything you're doing pre meeting booked that helps people like actually want to consider booking the meeting?

Speaker B: Which meeting would you say?

Speaker A: Yeah, like the call one that's just like, hey, I want to even explore roundtable learning as a potential solution for us.

Speaker B: Mhm. I would say probably going back to the video demos to making sure that they can see the actual end product before they even get on the phone with us. We want to make sure that um, they're being convinced enough to and excited enough to want to talk to us rather than okay, like, we'll see what these people have to say.

Speaker A: So again, I think some of what you guys are doing on the pain building front then ties into the solution side. So it sounds like those are going really hand in hand for you guys. Um, but the inclusion of like video demos is helpful. Is there anything else you're doing that's like more, um, hey, we're the right here. Here's the solution. Like you've now heard all the pains. Like you read the parable, you read the story. Now see how we've paid this off and can pay this off for you. Anything else like that?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean we have lots of case studies with uh, as much stats as we could possibly include in there without um, you know, doing stuff that's in NDAs. But every time we have an opportunity to do a joint case study with a customer, I'm all over that.

Speaker A: Okay. I love it. It sounds like you really heavy into product demos that are done over video and then case studies. And then this is a really dumb question, like are those product demos gated or are they ungated demos?

Speaker B: Uh, the demos are not gated. We want to make sure people see it. We put them um, on YouTube and we really hope on them.

Speaker A: Awesome. All right, super helpful. Um, all right, um, and then here comes the question of like, how do you help people buy from you? So another way of saying this is like somebody actually watches a demo or somebody like reviews a case study. What are you guys doing to make sure they move from that to like actually booking the meeting?

Speaker B: So this is where our biggest issue is. Um, we try to open up outlets as Much as we possibly can. We don't have a whole. You mentioned gated earlier. I don't gate a whole lot of stuff because I want to make sure that they feel empowered and not like bombarded too much. Um, although one could argue we could have bombard them a little more. Um, but yeah, we have lots of links in our site to book directly, um, with the sales team. We also have a contact us now, you know, drop some information and give us some ideas. All these different forms, but that's the biggest issue we come into.

Speaker A: Okay. I love it. So what I'm hearing is we should solve this today.

Speaker B: Yeah, let's do it. All right.

Speaker A: I'm excited for that. All right. Love it. Um, hey, I'm seeing quite a few people have actually joined, so. One, thank you for being here. Two, um, Hannah and I are live building an ABM program for Roundtable learning right now. What I recommend everybody do is as we're going through this, like, write down your answers for your scenario. Um, fun fact, we'll go ahead and let you in on what I'm doing on the side. Um, on a separate tab, I'm actually live building the blocks that we'll use to pull over to actually the program structure in a few more slides. We're actually going to shift over out of slide deck and into a couple of tools that we use for visualization to help guide through the actual build process. I'm excited for that. We'll get there in just a little bit. Uh, that said, uh, Hannah, I'll go ahead and, uh, give quick context. You gave me. Um, your sales team is, uh, what I love and refer to as cradle to grave. So they own the account from first touch to off boarding. Um, which is actually really fun. I actually think it's a super tough model to scale, but if you can nail it, it's like, I think the best model because, uh, typically sellers buy in more on ABM because they're stuck with the account forever. Um, which is like, great. So I'm curious, like, what are you guys doing to make sure that once an account has gotten in, they actually buy more? And then I'll give quick concert for everybody else that you shared with me on Friday. They typically buy like a 50k pilot program and then they like buy way more after that. So, like, how are you guys intentionally facilitating that, um, expansion post that first sale?

Speaker B: Yeah. So, all right. Our AES do a really great job. Um, they're definitely a whole lot more than sales people. Um, they're constantly what we like to call internally deeper and wider. So they stay with the customer and make sure that, um, they're checking in constantly on the progress of different projects to see how they're going. And then once the project's done and they're rolling out their training program, you're hearing from your AE right away, how's it going? How did it work? What's next? How can we improve it? Is there another place that we can, um, possibly take this in, you know, your realm, but also, is there anywhere else at your organization where we might be able to help in your training programs? So they're all over it. They build a lifelong friendship with our customers, and oftentimes our customers, if they end up leaving and going to a different company, they will bring us along with them.

Speaker A: Okay, so hold on. I just heard another thing that's, uh, an awareness play, which would be champion tracking. Um, but, um, the other thing I want to dig into is, again, they're going. They're going deep, they're going wide. I'm curious, when we think about, um, how, like, is that. Is there a standardized process that Roundtable Learning is, is implementing, or is it more freedom? If I'm going to say this, but we hire really capable, competent people, and they just kind of own their accounts and they do whatever they need to do to, like, expand the accounts from there. So is there standardized or is it more different depending on the rep?

Speaker B: That's a good question. It's definitely not standardized. Our reps are really, really great at it. But we take a very, like, consultative approach when we are talking and doing sales. So it's really not like, oh, hey, you already have this problem. It's reaching out to them. Like, I got a hunch, you know, the entire industry is struggling with, you know, hiring the next generation of workers. Uh, we're finding that, you know, they're enjoying training via VR or something like that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But then also through that entire sales process that lasts forever, they are doing basically like a needs analysis, and they're talking with so many different people. I mean, uh, you really have to get into the nitty gritty of their problem. So it's not just learning and development teams that are part of these projects. It's the training and development. It's also the operations people, because they all need to have a say. You need to have your SME. So. So they're really doing a lot of discovery to get to the root cause of the customer's problem. And that just happens and it goes on forever. There's Always something happening, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, yeah, uh, there's a lot going on at Fortune 500. There's always enough problems to go around for everybody. So I'm also then curious as we think through, um, how accounts are assigned for these reps. Are they, are they vertical specific reps or are they like territory based in a specific geography? Like, how do they actually get accounts assigned to them?

Speaker B: They mostly focus on industry.

Speaker A: Okay, amazing. That's like, that's awesome. Um, are there multiple reps per industry or is there only like one rep per industry?

Speaker B: There's definitely some overlap. Um, mostly because different industries can end up doing similar things. So, you know, logistics also exists in retail. So.

Speaker A: Okay, I think, okay, this has been helpful. I want to dig a lot into this because I actually think if we can nail this component, you're gonna make way more money. Like this sounds. I know we do like some net new stuff too, but like, if we can standardize a process, uh, that sounds awesome. So. All right, when we get into this may also go hand in hand in your context. Like, how do you help people stay forever? Um, again for context, for everybody else, Roundtable learning is very project based in nature. Like you make a bunch of custom content for like a department and then if you don't sell the next project, like you're done until the next projects are out. So like how do you make sure that people stay with you forever?

Speaker B: Great work.

Speaker A: Okay, cool. No, it's. No, this is great. Okay. Cause I think if we nail the last one, we'll also nail this one. At the same time, just given the nature of like how like you're not an MRR based or uh, sorry, monthly recurring revenue, like nobody sent the contract and just like, which today we're not going to try to solve like packaging and products and like business models. That's not the, that's not the aim for today. Um, I don't even know. But as I'm thinking through that, it's helpful. So. Okay, everyone, thank you so much for being here and like walking through all that with me and Hannah. Uh, the basic premise, when I think about building any ABM program, like, we just have to answer how we do those things specifically. Um, a lot of ABM programs get stuck because like marketing sales are fighting and everybody forgets about CS and then for sure forgets about finance, um, of like, you know, who's actually profitable for us. We just look at big dollars from a revenue perspective and we don't actually care about profit oftentimes from marketing and Sales perspective. So, again, when we think about these questions, most people that I speak with, um, that are either CMO, CROs, C, what's Chief Customer Success Officer? I don't know so often. CSO Strategy officer. Anyway, what often they're just trying to figure out is like, how do we get best potential customers know we exist, how to get them to understand the problems that they're facing? How do we help them see that we can make their problems go away? Buy from us, buy more, stay forever. That's about it. So we then map all of those questions up against what we refer to as our account progression model. So this is the first framework that we're going to walk through today. So, um, I also want to pull this up for everybody else. And then, Hannah, as you're like, do a quick scan over this and just write down, like, tell me anything else that you're doing that, like, we didn't talk about. Um, but I try to, like, make essentially the most comprehensive list that I could. Um, there are two jokes on here. Um, you know, in the event that, like, you do want to read all of it. So you can tell me when you find the jokes. Um, but when we look at this list, typically this is inclusive of almost everything everyone is doing. Now, you may be super special doing something, like, crazy unique, and I love that for you, but, like, 97% of people are doing these things. So, Hannah, is there anything else on this list that we didn't talk about that you're like, oh, we're doing that

Speaker B: too, other than, like, the video demos? No.

Speaker A: Love it. Okay, so we nailed it. So, um, again, now, as you look at all the things you're doing, you gotta think back. What do these programs actually help you specifically accomplish? And then you can do your writer downers, if you've not already done it. Like, write down up against these questions what you're doing. Hannah, I've already done this for you, so you're ahead of the game. Um, but I also want to just give context because everybody's like, I'll give. The most classic one is like, will events generate awareness and book meetings and accelerate pipeline and help us reengage, engage, close, lost? Yes, agreed. And also primary, um, intent is how I think about these things. So what is the actual primary goal for any program? So be super clear. SEO, as an example, can generate revenue and booked meetings, for sure. But most people that I speak with when they're doing SEO, it's actually more primarily an awareness play than it is anything else. So again, can SEO book meetings and drive demos and get you lots and lots of revenue for sure. Is that its primary intent for most people? No. So I just want to outline, as you're thinking through your programs, um, everyone at home, what's primary intent? All right, we're going to map all this out in detail. Um, before I do that, uh, I want to quickly outline. I'm not going to spend a ton of time here because the, uh, main goal for today's program structure, but I'm going to use some language as we talk through the playbooks that align with this 4D framework, because this is the tactical elements. So tactical elements would be data distribution, destination, and direction. If you're like me and you're like. That sounds like a lot of words. How do I summarize that down? TLDR version. Um, data is just targets plus triggers that create personalized nuance and specific messaging. So who are going after? Why are we reaching out? What are we saying to them? That's data distribution isn't how we're getting in front of them. Destination is where we're actually sending them. And then lastly is direction, which is how do you plan to track it? All right, when you put those, that account progression model and then that 40 framework together, you actually get, uh, an ABM program. So the account progression model is your strategy. The activation plays are your tactics of what you're going to go and do at every stage for your, uh, program. So, hey, uh, we're doing a lot today. We're like 30 minutes in. Hopefully this has been helpful for you if you want this. But, like, for seven hours in, like, way more detail, go to scrappyabm uh.comworkshop. we've got our next workshop on June 23rd. Uh, it's a ton of fun. So that's my quick pitch. That's the only pitch today. Scan QR code, use, uh, 50 to knock off 100 bucks under registration. Slightly confusing. It's 50 discount. Regardless, it's a good time. All right, everybody cool with that pitch? Great. Let's go and break down the components of the 40 framework super quickly. Um, if you want the deck, ask me, I'll send the deck over. I'm just gonna, like, breeze through this in like three minutes and it's gonna be crazy quick. So there, um, are only three kinds of data. There's first party, second party, and third party data. First party data makes you money. Second party is a relationship accelerator through partners. So think events. Think literally, like partnered. Like, if you're a partner up. So Like I know it's roundtable learning, you guys have lots of partners. So like you can work with your partners, see who is in their first party data and then use that to accelerate uh, introductions and referrals and all that kind of stuff. That is crazy to me that like I, we didn't factor in partners. We got to bring that back around because like partners are kind of a part of your go to market. Right?

Speaker B: They definitely help.

Speaker A: That is. All right, we'll, we'll loop that back in. And then last but certainly not least is third party data. Third party is just like, are they googling stuff? Who are the right contacts to engage? But that's it. From a data perspective, um, again, first party makes you money. Second party, um. What a great question, Jeff. If you want to describe zero party data in the chat, go for it. But like most people don't actually know what zero party data is and it is more confusing than helpful for most people from a high level perspective. Now if we want to get into the weeds and like get super nerdy about it, sure we can talk about zero party. But for most people getting started, they just need first, second and third party data. Um, and then when I think about like third ah, party it's more um, expansion with the goal being to convert those audiences into first party. So second and third should get converted into the first. First party will make you money. That's my like 30 second pitch on how to use data. All right, distribution. There's only two kinds of distribution channels. There's direct and indirect. So direct is one to one stuff. I think it's these primarily sales channels. So like Hannah, we talked a lot about direct channels. Indirect channels would be the things like organic social or ads or events where it's more one to many in nature. You guys have some. But I actually think this could be an opportunity for us to like expand your channel mix into more indirect channels potentially. All right, content types. There's only three kinds of content types. Pain, um, which is like how to make sure people even know that they're hurting product, which is how we solve the pain and then proof, which is how we are uniquely positioned to help them solve that pain specifically. So I used to only have pain and product. Um, and my short story on this is I would help people understand all the pains of building an ABM program and it helped them get convinced they should build an ABM program. I did a really bad job convincing them that we were a good solution for them so they would like go build one. They just Wouldn't do it with us. Like, you know this problem. And I was like, oh, we're, we're missing proof. We need to help you understand that we're the right solution for them. So again, pain product and proof. Pain is great. Higher than the account progression model. Product's great. Lower in the account progression model. Proof always works. Just always good. Um, if they have a pain, so. And then lastly, direction capabilities. So like how do you track stuff? It's only three kinds of tracking. It's engagement, it's opt in, it's meetings. It's like, are they engaged with the brand? Doing stuff on our website, doing stuff on social, do they show up to events? That kind of stuff often do they fill out forms and like show us that they actually want more information from us by like newsletters or events or resources or whatever. And then meetings. Did they book a sales call? That is it. So when I think about then how to build playbooks or build playbooks by stage, you pick one data source, maybe two, and I'll give you the maybe two. You would pick like first party data and then like third party as an intent trigger. So they're in our CRM, for example, they're a closed lost account and they're now showing third party intent that there may be back end market. Those two things together are data sources. So one is like targets. And then the other data source would be triggers, next distribution. So it's either direct or indirect. And there's typically gonna be one to three channels per play. So think of this as like ad plus outbound, two channels. Maybe throw in some email marketing too. There's your three channels. Um, destination pick, pain, product or proof. So what's the actual primary intent here? Like are we trying to build the pain so that they actually want to book a meeting with us or trying to showcase how the product works so they're actually convinced we can help them? Or do we want to showcase proof that we're uniquely positioned to help them in their specific situation? And lastly, pick a direction. How do we attract success? Um, engagement, opt in and meetings. And then Cheryl, can I make a joke? You filled out a form because you're here. It's like everyone that's here filled out a form. So yeah, people do fill out forms. Um, it's just gotta be for like actually helpful stuff. So like filling out form for an infographic, no longer a thing, but like I'm writing a book and we're gonna give away the book for free. I am for sure getting a 200 page book because it'd be helpful. It's gonna be a good book anyway. So like if you give away good stuff, people will fill out forms. If you go away crappy stuff, it won't fill out forms. Um, the psychology is they have to, um, it's gotta be worth like 20 bucks. So if it's not worth $20, you're not willing to fill it out. Hopefully this is a 20 value for everybody. All right, we are 35 minutes in. Who's ready to build stuff? Everybody cool with that? Cool. All right, I'm gonna pull this sucker over here. I've been quietly building this on the side. So Hannah, what I tried to do for you, um, is based on what you shared, I've already built out some ingredients from a BYOB40 framework. It sounds like you've got website tracking data and then CRM data I should now throw in. I want to make sure that we've got all the right data sources. But you've also got partner data. There's stuff like that. Then normally I throw in events here, but because you're not sponsoring the events, you don't get any sponsored list, you're just attending. So as I look at the data sources we've got available, I think this is what we've got. Is there anything that I'm missing from a data source?

Speaker B: Um, um. That sounds good. That's correct.

Speaker A: Cool. Distribution. What I heard was email marketing, um, organic social. And this is from some of our pre notes. You've got outbound emails, you've got events and you've got outbound DMS over social. From a distribution perspective, did I miss anything on like how we get in front of people?

Speaker B: Organic social? No, that's looking good.

Speaker A: I think I misspelled destination. Forgive me, but I heard from destination was videos, we've got demos, we've got events, we've got general website content and then like product pages specifically. Did I miss anything on the destinations?

Speaker B: Uh, product pages slash industry specific pages as well.

Speaker A: Cool, perfect. Uh, I'm going to do products slash industry, uh, and that's going to mess that up. But that's fine, we can fix that. And then direction. What I heard was essentially like we book meetings, we've got website engagement, we've got event attendance and then like general opt ins for things on the site. You've ungated a lot of stuff, but it sounded like there might be a couple opt in opportunities. Did I hear that correctly or am I making that up?

Speaker B: Yeah, there's a couple. Um, we also have Website engagement, but also a lot of social engagement that's doing really well.

Speaker A: Um, on the social engagement, how are you tracking that so you can activate it?

Speaker B: Um, we're tracking overall engagement, followers views and uh, now we're setting goals to get some meetings booked.

Speaker A: Okay, so what I'm hearing is you're tracking it from a, like a, an account level on the follower account, but it doesn't like you're tracking on a per post level. You're not doing outbound of target account likes post. We do outbound off of that, correct?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Cool. Um, here's your again, based on current state, if you go build any playbook, this is what you're currently working with. Hopefully this is helpful in and of itself. Um, I also took down a bunch of other little notes. As you can see here. I was just jotting stuff down as we were talking through it. Um, so what I'm going to start doing is I tried to get a lot of the basic concepts here. Um, so what I heard from an event perspective, we're attending events, so I'm going to put event attendance at the awareness stage. The reason I do that is that as a primary purpose for most people that we work with, they're going to events to source opportunities. Primary purpose. I uh, want to make sure. Is that your primary intent when you go to events?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Cool. So we're primarily going to people that have not heard about roundtable learning and we're going to them with the intent of making sure that they're aware that we exist. Is that correct?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Cool. And then logically, with every pre event playbook comes a post event playbook. So those two always go together. At least they should. Uh, so we've got that, um, we've got organic social. So again you guys are posting on social, that's generating awareness. We've also got organic website traffic. I'm hearing all that correctly.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: That's like generating awareness. Cool. And then the other one that you said that I didn't have pre built. So I'm going to do that now, which I'm very excited about. Um, is referrals. So you guys generate a lot of awareness from referrals.

Speaker B: Yes, I'd say so.

Speaker A: Um, I think Jim is here. Hey Jim, make sure. Actually just go ahead and drop it in the chat. Can you just drop in the chat like our referral video playbook? Um, it is nasty in the best way. Um, so what we. I'm gonna go ahead and talk through this super quick because it's probably the highest ROI thing that anyone can do. Um, do you do referral or do you do an NPS score?

Speaker B: We do not.

Speaker A: Okay. Huge opportunity. The reason I like the NPS score is it's literally asking people, on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely are you to refer us? So you've already naturally get referrals, and then you ask your customer base, like, how likely are you to refer us? And they tell you we're super likely to refer you. It then gives you a logical opportunity to then ask them for the referral. And then what we do is when they say yes, we say, amazing. We'll send over a list of people that, like, you seem to be connected with that we'd love to just help you out, um, with finding the right referrals. That's not how you say it, because that sounds too salesy. But there's a way. Sorry, There's a way to say it. Um, that's Jim puts in the video. But essentially we then actually send target accounts that we want to get referred into, and it's a way that you can then make sure you're actually sourcing direct referrals, people you want to talk to. Hugely impactful. So, like, if nothing else, I would go do that. Um, and then. Okay, so that's. That's a weird ass. The other thing you outlined with Sales Outbound, I'm going to save that for later because I think there's an opportunity to make them even more impactful. So when we look at, like, how we generate awareness today, if we trade shows, organic social media, organic web traffic, and then referrals, is that. Is that correct?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Amazing. Um, Hannah, can I also just brag on you for, like, a hot second?

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: You're like, how large is the marketing team over here at Roundtable Learning?

Speaker B: There's three of us.

Speaker A: Yeah. So small team of three marketers over here, um, that are already running all of this. So, like, as we go through this one, it, like, makes sure you're. You hear like you're doing a great job. Um, some of the things we're going to do today are just going to help create some structure that makes what you're already doing a little bit more impactful. So just know I get to have an easy job structuring a program because you're already doing a good job running a lot of really of the right things. It's, like, good on you. Uh, that I get so many things to play with, so just want to call that out. Uh, that said, when we think about this, essentially What I'm going to pitch here is we're going to wait to activate our sales team until they have accounts that engage in organic or that hit the website. And here's the reason why. These signals are then helpful prioritization components that ensure they're going after people that are actually interested at all. Um, what we're going to do here, um, we lovingly refer to this as the notification game. The question is how many times can we show up on somebody's notifications without ever dming them? This is likes, this is comments, this is um, connections. After a couple of weeks. The primary goal here is actually not books a meeting, it's open the channel. Um, LinkedIn. A connection request enables you, once you've actually connected with those folks to open up that as a channel through which you can engage folks. And what we've seen is email is good for reminding people but they respond in LinkedIn. So if you've already connected with them on LinkedIn earlier, once they started to show some signs of engagement, you don't have to like do the awkward connection requests later. You've already opened that channel for then a follow up. That is a pattern or out from the email program. So we've seen that work really well. 10 out of 10 would recommend. Um, all right, so we got that and then that's really it from my perspective on. Oh no, no, no, we got one more. All right, so we're going to put this kind of in the same category but different. Um, champion tracking. Um, so what I didn't hear from a tooling perspective was like a user gems or an Apollo or a Clay or any of those things that would change or that would track channels. I want to make sure. Am I hearing that correctly or do you guys have that kind of technology that can track champions?

Speaker B: Yeah, we actually do utilize Apollo and HubSpot so Great.

Speaker A: Um, I think you're fine than just using Apollo if I remember correctly, um, the other way that I like to do it, that's like the poor man's version. Do you guys send like any kind of an email newsletter to your customer base or to your database at all?

Speaker B: Yeah, a small one.

Speaker A: Cool, perfect. Um, if people have bounced email addresses, um, you can then build a list off of customer plus bounced email and then see that they are no longer at that company and then you can go check their LinkedIn and see where they landed. So it's a, it's a simple way, um, that's free if you send an email newsletter now if you have the right Tools, you can set all that up through automation, which is amazing. But I also like to just share the. Like, how do you do this for literally no additional dollars? Um, so that's a good one. Um, so, all right, we've got referral. We've also got champion tracking, and we've got social engagement. And then if you wanted to crazy idea, inevitably you get a large enough audience size, you run retargeting ads towards these accounts as a way of doing audience expansion. So you've got the ads plus outbound that go together, which will then see a lift in your outbound efforts as well. And that doesn't have to create a huge budget. Side note, like, I think we do like $10 per account, um, per month. Like, it's not, it's not crazy huge from a budget perspective where you can get a lot of value from this, like 10 to 15 bucks per account per month. Granted, you have to have a minimum audience that has like 300 folks. So if you're starting to go after, like, it's like 15 bucks, you're going to be at minimum 4,500 bucks a month. If you do 15 bucks for 300, ah, 300 folks and you're only targeting one person per account, you should target more than that. But I'm just saying, like, you can get started for relatively inexpensive, um, compared to the number of accounts you're going after. So hopefully that's helpful from a retargeting perspective. All right, we got like 15 minutes. Is this helpful for you? Like, drop in the chat if this is like, super helpful for you, because we're about to fly through some stuff. Um, so it's helpful. All right, when we get to high, um, intent page engagement, I'm going to make this a bit of a bucket for your industry pages, for your product pages, and then for your schedule a call page. If you've got accounts that are viewing those pages specifically, you should get them to have sales reach out and with the intent to book a meeting. Um, so what I'm going to recommend here. Oh, that's not what I wanted. Sorry. In case anyone was like, are we doing it live? We are for sure doing it live. Champion tracking sends folks towards industry and product pages. So when you see a champion, um, what I'd inevitably love for you to do is if this is a core way, which you're actually generating revenue, I would build an asset that's like the Quick Start Guide by Vertical. So one of my favorite things to do for those that, uh, get a bunch of Revenue from champion tracking is like the 90 day checklist of what do you need to accomplish within your first 90 days. And then you tell people in the framing like hey, I know you've probably already have something like this. So you give them their uh, what's the phrase that the youth say? You give them their flowers or something like that of like Hannah, you've probably already got something like this. We just you know, worked with 100 plus clients in this industry and what we've seen consistently for your role or these are kind of the things that most people want to look at. So I just wanted to give you a quick resource that you can then also like share internally. Um, because I know this is probably in your head, I just put in the documentation for you. Hopefully this is helpful. So like that's a great asset. That's just a value add for them. And what you really want to do in the email is inevitably get them to a point where they're remembering like oh yeah, like at my last company I had all these problems and I worked with Roundtable Learning and I solved all those problems and I then move to a company that has those same problems and then Roundtable can help me solve these same problems again. Amazing. So like that's, that's the pitch and we just want to get them to high intent pages that then they can circulate internally to people that you want to work with. And then if you really want to go crazy with it, uh, I like to do one to one videos to these accounts walking through the page itself. So that's all destination stuff and that's sales hopping in here. You can then do the exact same thing for referrals. So Champion tracking and your referral play have a similar structure but your messaging is going to be different because a champion worked with you previously. A referral may not have mhm. But structurally they're going to look really similar. All right, so when I then look at uh, okay, here's the big thing I want to call out which you hit on is what we're currently missing is a conversion stage. So I'm going to go ahead and map out some of the rest of this. That would be really good recommendations. So like you guys have case studies as a re engagement stage if somebody's like super hot as an account and then they kind of disappear. Um, essentially doing the same audience network mapping for the referral perspective here, but then also running case ah study ads towards those accounts. So when I say case studies like we get all the proof points that Showcase all the success and results that we've had with their vertical. So we run those as ads and then we also activate the referral base again. Um, so that essentially they're getting ads and then third party validated people that they know like and trust to say hey, we worked with on table learning. It was amazing. So like that combined I like as a re engagement stage play with the and only purpose of that is like meeting booked. Cool.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, the only other thing that I could think about as a re engagement stage would be potentially executive dinners at some of these events. If you have a like a mass of people that are local to that city that were like super engaged and then fell off. Running an executive dinner play is helpful because a lot of this at the organic social and organic website is going to be more bottoms up. So you're not going to get like coo, you're probably going to get like learning and development manager.

Speaker B: Good.

Speaker A: Like we still want those people. But the executive dinner is how you get like the, the buyer to engage with the brand. So this is how you actually make your in person events both awareness and re engagement to then drive a conversion. So again that's how I think about primary intent. These are optional as like you get further down down the road of your program. Build Close Lost my favorite of all time. Um, Godfield had already talked to you that we missed something in the sales cycle and then get them to buy again. Um, I'm going to come back, I'm just filling out some of these pieces really quick because I think the biggest opportunity for us is figuring out a conversion mechanism M because what we don't yet have is the best bet we currently have is getting people to these pages and then essentially saying hey, you watched a demo. Do you now want to book a meeting? Um, I think that's a gap.

Speaker B: Hm. Yeah.

Speaker A: Now I'll be super clear. Some people we talk to only have like this stuff up here and they have like nothing else. So like the chasm to jump is not as crazy as some of the other folks that we get to hang out with. But this is, that's still a chasm. Um, so what I think we need, um, in the context of abm, I think I explained this previously. I think of like one to many, one to few and one to one as a continuum. So as you see all of these things up here are largely one to many, excluding referrals which would be a one to few play. This starts to become one to few in nature and then as we get into that meaningful engagement, um, you really are like running one to few and then maybe a one to one. But for sure the conversion stage would be a one to one play. So when I think about the one to one play here, how do we take some of that industry research that you have, especially if you're going after Fortune 500. I, uh, should know this offhand. Are they all publicly traded?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So they're actually doing like quarterly earnings reports and sharing with people publicly, like, what their initiatives are and like, what the big hairy, audacious thing that they've got to solve are, because, like, they have to and a lot of their earnings reports. Is that correct?

Speaker B: Yeah. But drilling down to the nitty gritty of it is super tough.

Speaker A: Um, and I think it feels super hard if you're doing it for all 500.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What I, what I might be pitching here is you, you said you guys were open to webinars. I like webinars, clearly. But if we had some kind of a meaningful engagement stage here that wasn't just they viewed the website, but some kind of an asset or an offer that created some, um, form of live engagement. You can have a conversation with folks and then your post event is sales reviewing their quarterly earnings to then tie roundtable learning. And we would not say like roundtable learning does it, but like, hey, you guys are struggling to actually get the efficiencies that you're looking for. And often a training gap is the actual cause of those inefficiencies. Um, we've seen companies in your industry actually get these impacts. I'd love to show you how roundtable learning can create the custom content that's needed for you uniquely to then, um, actually hit these, these quarterly objectives. And you don't do that with all 500 every quarter. But if they were already at events, they're already on your website, they've already hit these pages. If you then have that small subset of your 500, probably doing like 20 to 30 of those a quarter. So you actually had 8% of the 500 lists annually, with the intent being to then book the meeting and then you're in the sales cycle. I think that's a conversion stage play that is unique and specific, that leverages what you have available. How do you feel about that?

Speaker B: I like that. That's interesting. It's a different approach.

Speaker A: Cool. Um, you obviously need to get sellers bought in, but I also think if you try this, what you inevitably get into is a system through which you can repeat it. So you actually have a standardized landing Page template and you have a standardized video script and a standardized sales deck that you then plug in the information and then it's still one to one because they got to go do the research, I got to go do a bunch of stuff. But like it's one to one templatized. Does that make sense?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Cool. We've got five minutes.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker A: Yeah, you're telling me. I'm so mad that we didn't get into customer expansion. So I'll just give you like the short pitch on how I like to do customer expansion. Um, you've seen your customer's problems a hundred, if not a thousand times. They've never seen these problems because they still have them as problems. Like if they had seen the problem, they would have solved them already. So I like to think of that then through the lens of. Sorry, I referenced this earlier, I have a two and a half year old. We read either, um, if you give a bigger pancake, if you give a mouse a cookie, if you give mouse a brownie, at least one of those every night. Are you familiar with the book if you give a mouse a cookie?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Okay, first of all, incredible book. Um, the, the basic premise is if you give a mouse the cookies, when again, he's going to want a glass of milk to go with it, if you give him a glass of milk, he's gonna want a straw. So like every time you give them something that then unlocks a new thing to give them. So that I also think about it is once you've solved a problem that then creates new problems that then you can position roundtable learning as the right solution for. So again, you're already doing that in the like 50k pilot project. So like, hey, we're going to actually work with this department and I'm going to assume it's typically like front end workers. So like, hey, we're going to help develop training and materials for your front end workers that may be higher turnover that uh, are like more complex roles and you got to like quickly ramp and onboard people repeatedly. Right, Great. Now we develop that custom content. Well, we can actually do that for this other department as well. And making sure that you're positioning throughout. It's like one of the things you've highlighted multiple times is industries. And ah, maybe we just didn't get into it due to like time constraints. But do you also highlight all the roles you've made content for like in addition to industries? Okay. Are you like consistently hammering that home?

Speaker B: So um, from a sales perspective, yes. The AES do a great job at that. I'm thinking maybe from, uh, more awareness perspective, not so much.

Speaker A: Cool. That might be the other thing is like, from a website content perspective, we may also then like develop role based pages of like, we create content for like these roles and then you can actually the like, drill down on that is an industry plus role. Um, so again, if you get Master cooking also works in SEO, um, of like, we have industries now we have roles now we have industry plus role. And then you've created this curated content experience as specific as you can get. And then you just clone that page, you actually throw their logo on it and then you update the content for like, hey, here's how we do this for your organization. You change 20% of the content to be nuanced for them. Like, that kind of stuff really does well once you've got the right base to build from. All right, so here's what I'm going to do. This was helpful. Hopefully Hannah was this helpful?

Speaker B: Yeah. All right, cool. Thank you.

Speaker A: Super glad to hear that. I'm gonna finish this out. I'll have it to you before the end of the week. Um, everyone else that's here, thank you for being here. Um, if you want more stuff like this, like, please tell us. Um, I will reiterate, this was probably the most fun webinar that I've done because it wasn't just me looking at the abyss. And I got to like, hang out with someone neat and interesting and like, help build a, a real thing. So if you want more stuff like this, let us know. We're happy to do it. Um, and then, yeah, last and most certainly not least, if you want to come hang out for seven hours, Um, I think I'm a decent hang. Hannah, would you agree? Sorry, that was. I'm not fishing for compliments, like, agree or disagree. Um, but all right, Hannah's gonna be there. So we're gonna do this for seven hours, uh, and build a full program with you. So again, thank you so much for being here, Scrappy abm. And we'll see you guys in the next one. Bye, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Scrappy abm. If you're looking for more content just like this, I highly recommend you go subscribe to our newsletter. We release weekly playbooks so you have the actual ways in which you can start to build an ABM program today. Just go to scrappyabm.com newsletter to subscribe. If you enjoyed this episode. We'd really appreciate if you'd leave a five star review and hit the notification bell so you never miss an episode. I look forward to seeing you in the next one.