SaaS Dads S2/E15: The SaaS Opportunity Nobody Is Talking About Right Now

Robert: Zero certainty. I wouldn't have a clue how to advise him about stepping into a career. I wouldn't have a clue. And I sincerely thought that if I could be the manager of a mobile phone shop, I'd have made it in life. That's as high as I. That's not true anymore because companies are, uh, drastically cutting workforces, which means there's less and less jobs out there and these are being replaced by AI. And that's the first time in a, um, history. It's. What does everything come back to? For me, everything I think comes back to. And I don't like this, but I don't really see how there's anything else out there, really. It's. For the majority of people, it's a personal brand and it's you being able to communicate effectively who you are, what you do, why you do it.

Gary: I think I work. I used to. I used to use AI, right? And now I work with AI. And the difference being that I used to give it a task to do and it would spit me out some content. Welcome to SaaS Dads, where we scale SaaS without sacrificing family. All right, awesome. Got Danny Clark back from easy peasy business. How are you, Danny? Back again for season two, mate?

Robert: I'm very well, thanks, mate. How are you?

Gary: I'm, um, awesome, mate. It's good to see you back. It's nice because now I, uh, met you online for sasd. That's the first time that we'd actually spoken. And then I just met you in Costa Rica. So we've been over there and we're both speaking at the event over there. And now we're back for SAS ads too. So we've just had a bit of, a bit of an event in Costa Rica and you got to, got to meet your lovely wife Elizabeth. Elizabeth, Liz, Lil. I'm still not sure which one of those three I'm supposed to call her.

Robert: Uh, depends which personality is happening at

Gary: that time, maybe, but I can verify she is absolutely lovely. Had some really nice chats with her. She's really nice. And your children stayed at home, so you got to have a little bit of a break with your wife. While the kids were at home, who was looking after the kids? Actually, I can't remember. Remember.

Robert: I'm sure my mom was looking after three kids, two dogs, and she, uh, did a sterling job, so we're very thankful to my mom. So she's recently retired, so we're now going to be leaning on her a little bit more to to help us out. It's been, it's been some time, some years since I've actually been on the speaking circuit. Used to be quite big on the speaking circuit. Kind of pre covered 2020. So from 2017 to 2020 was hearing about everywhere really trying to travel in the world and speak in front of big crowds and then got tired and fed up and miserable, bored doing it and kids uh, got where I became. It sounds stupid. When our kids were really young babies it was easy to do everything and then that schoolish age it got harder and now it feels really hard to do which is weird because they're 14, 12 and 10. They're older now but oh, uh, it's just like having five opinions. Nobody wants to do the same thing. It's harder now than ever I think to probably parent because it's being political is the wrong word. But it's like politicking your way through negotiations and agreements and doing deals to be able to try and do things.

Gary: So yeah, uh, their own lives a bit now, haven't they at that age They've got their own lives around friends, their own requirements, things they want to do.

Robert: Yeah, exactly that. So hopefully mom, if you watch this we're going to be leaning on you a little bit more.

Gary: I think in some ways it's a little bit easier when the kids are a bit older and they're a bit more self sufficient too in a way to leave them with. We don't have parents here like me and my wife, we, we have no family here so that is happening for us. But I just imagine it would be a bit easier as the kids get a bit older to go. Look, can you look after them? They're fairly self sufficient. There's a chicken in the fridge, they'll feed themselves, make they have some water kind of thing.

Robert: Yeah, yeah, that's it. So yeah, in some ways yes. And then in other ways, uh, no. So yeah, joys of trying to figure it all out. Right, how old are your kids, Gary? I can't remember.

Gary: Just the one little boy, Finn. Just one, just the one little fella, he's 8 going on 15 I think at the moment. He seems to just done a massive transformation in literally the last three months where he's now fully, he's always got his own opinions, Robert. Now he's fully got his own opinions and he fully wants to do his own thing and there's plenty of eye rolling and all that stuff going on and you're like oh mate, hold on a minute. And I try I take a breath because I go, I know I did all this to my mum when I was young. I'm sure I did. So this is payback, right?

Robert: Yeah. Was you an only child? I grew up as an only child.

Gary: No, I got an older sister but she's five years older than me pretty much. By the time she was 16, she'd pretty much moved out, mostly with a boyfriend of us. So I'm kind of at home on my own from the age of 11 sort of thing. So, yeah, there was enough difference between us that we led our own separate lives a bit to a degree. But yeah, one. One kid is lovely and I think I've spoken about this with other people then I've spoke about it with you on the last time. But we went through a big IVF journey, so one and done for us. We would have liked to. One's great, two's hard work when they're young, but I definitely can see that two, when they're a bit older, they've got someone else to play with, to vent with, to talk with.

Robert: Yeah. They've also got someone to argue with.

Gary: Yeah. Right, now just like under full on the full playmate yesterday I was. We were talking about quickly just before we got on here, I hurt my back sliding down a waterfall in Costa Rica before I came home. So I haven't been able to exercise properly for the last since I've come home. Right. And for me exercise is a big thing. If I don't get to work out regularly, I get pretty antsy. Right. And I just got to a point where I'm starting to move a bit. And then yesterday, um, I've got a sauna in, I've got a gym in my garage, I've got a sauna in there, We've got a little treadmill and yes, I was like, okay, I feel like I could just go for a decent bit of a walk on the treadmill.

Robert: Right.

Gary: I would just do that while the sauna's heating up. Now I'll get in the sauna and I can have a bit of a stretch and feel better. It's a bit of time for me and I'll go in there, put the airpods on, put some music on, listen to something while I'm just walking and literally I was in there for about 10 seconds and then Finn comes in and there's a little trampoline in there as well that my wife uses. There's little jump down things.

Robert: Yeah.

Gary: And next thing he's just jumping up and down next to Me dad. And I was like, ah, uh, all I wanted was a bit of time to myself. And then I had to snap out of it and go, yeah, but he wants to talk to me, he wants my time and he isn't going to want to do that for very long, you know, I mean, he's 8. And you're saying your kids youngest is 10. Right. They starting to go off of their own, mate. So I was like, you pods out. All right, mate, how was your day? What's going on? Just take a breath. I've lost my time, but this is precious time kind of thing.

Robert: Yeah. I can't remember what we spoke about on, on our last podcast episode together, but I, uh, think I was probably saying worse. The effect of I vastly reduced my work hours because I started to become acutely aware of running out of time with my kids and Austin in particular because of his football journey, which tends to be something that I do more than the wife does with him. I thought, yeah, there's probably a window of about four years that we'll get to spend doing this. If I have to finish work at two, uh, o', clock, I do a ten or two work day most of the time. Sometimes it's more, but most of the time to allow me to do that, basically. And it's interesting because going to Costa Rica, we're now starting to think about we need to start putting in place what we're going to do as husband and wife in three to five years. Because it's incredible how quickly our kids are becoming so independent of us and also not needing us or wanting to spend time with us at times where often we'll be sat in the lounge. Look, just looking at two of us, I'm like, yeah, it's just us too. We need to figure this thing out for us because we've been like servant parents. We've put everything into the kids and we've kind of operated our businesses in such a way that we can just be there, uh, if they forget something for school, great. We're straight in. We drive and we bring the thing. Every play, every nativity, every. We've gone, kids first run, the sports team, every sport event. We're always there every time. Doesn't matter if it's three hours away, 30 minutes away, doesn't matter if it's during the school day. As soon as school day finishes, weekends with her. And it's funny to, not that we're out of that yet, but to see that there will very soon be an out of that. Having to plan and think, what does that look like for us now? On the other side of that, it's a very interesting time. Less with Maddie because she's still 10, but because we have the 14, 12 and 10, the 14 year old, you start to. To get a glimpse to the future of what it's going to be like. So yeah, it's very interesting.

Gary: Yeah, yeah, we did speak about that a lot last time. The importance of being present and noticing all the little things for the kids and being that support for them. Do you think about that? Obviously you do think about it, but do you think about what you want the kids to do when they get to that age? When they're leaving school, are they going to go to uni? Are they going to go traveling? Do you want them to get into the SaaS business? AI, help them with the business, work with them?

Robert: It's a really. We're talking about this stuff a lot at home. The school system is the funny thing. So I'm 38 and I remember when I went to school thinking this is outdated and antiquated and this ain't really going to serve me much as I become an adult into the life and career that I'm gonna probably want to run for myself. Because even just a simple thing like a calculator, I used to question, I get that I need to have an understanding of maths, but I'm probably just going to use a calculator and there'll be a better version of this anyway in 10, 20 years, which will. So I used to kind of think I'm sometimes being taught a depth of knowledge and information because this is just the way that it's always been for a time that has been and gone and now it's the same stuff that's being taught and everything that we know is changing on a month to month basis and never mind what it's going to be like for these kids. And it's hard and we don't really talk about this stuff, but I suppose because of the lives and the lifestyle that we live, our kids maybe see it. My daughter, it's. We're struggling at the moment to get her to be motivated to be academic because she is saying for herself, what's the point of this? This is just to pass an exam, to do a test, to fit into a box, to go to a university, that I'm not bothered when I could just do this and I can create a career or build something or do some. And I find it difficult. I try to argue what I think I should argue, as the parent, which is, no, you've got to learn these skills. And if it's not necessarily, it's education, you get it. You're practicing the principles of discipline and trying hard and fitting in and listening and respect. But I don't know, it's a really funny world the kids are about to step into because there's absolutely zero certainty. I wouldn't have a clue how to advise them about stepping into a career. I wouldn't have a clue to say, you know, this is the place to put your efforts, because this will definitely be around for the next 40 years. I can't answer that for myself, never mind for me. Kids at different stages of the life. So it's. I think it's a very difficult thing to do. And I therefore think what most people do is just follow the status quo. And it's little things. Like my youngest, Madison, she came up to me this morning. Oh, dad, I'm watching this little girl. She lives on a boat and they travel around the world and she's 10 and she just. She's talking on YouTube and that's how she's making money. And she's already. She's talking about being an entrepreneur, dad. And that sounds really cool and awesome and can I live on a boat? When I was growing up as a kid, I lived in Skegness in England, which is a very small coastal tourist town. And I sincerely thought that if I could be the manager of a mobile phone shop, I'd have made it in life. That's as high as I thought it was. I didn't know there's anything bigger out there. Yeah, that little microcosm of, uh. There was no universities around. If anyone left Skeg, they never came back. Anyway, my family were all in the building trade. My dad was like, you're not getting the building trade because your knees would be knackered and tired. And obviously trying to get me to avoid what he was going through. Yeah, that was it. And now I roll forward at the same sort of age, my daughters. I can live on a boat and I can travel the world and I can earn, uh, lots of money doing that. Like, it's. Is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? Is that too much possibility? Are they then going to suffer the risk that they're going to be disappointed and frustrated if they can't achieve these crazy, lofty goals? It's so accessible for people to see, like these superstar millionaires, crazy successful people. Or the appearance of it anyway. Right. Social media sometimes is that going to be the reality for them? Are they going to think they failed? It's funny, right? Uh, we had this conversation. My wife, she spoke to you about this in Costa Rica. My wife, my two daughters, they would in a heartbeat go to Australia or somewhere else in the world for them, England, it's cold to sweat, it's boring, it's miserable, blah, blah, right? And they would go somewhere else. Whereas me, my son, we're very settled and we're happy, but we're both more of the mindset of, you make the most of what you've got. And they're of the mindset of, there might be something better, let's go and get it. And I don't know whether one's right or one's wrong or whether they're both right, but knowing which one to, uh, back into, follow hard. So.

Gary: Well, on that one, mate, you should definitely come over. I told you, the door's open. You come over and stay and I'll show you around the sunny coast, mate, and then have a look, right? You have to come and stay, but you can have a look, right? Check it out. Always worth a gander. But. Yeah, but I know exactly what you mean about the whole school thing. Thinking about that all the time as well. And I see the school fees going out, like, what are we paying for here? It's like, what's the purpose? I genuinely look at my son going to school at the moment purely from a. This is. For him, it's networking, like meeting people and friends. He's getting to be sociable and he's getting to learn to be around other people and what. That's. I don't really view the education that he's getting as valuable at the school right now because I don't think it's going to be that useful even now. If they had any idea what AI was like at the level that it is, they wouldn't have a. My. My son this evening, he was. He had a. Ah. He found a Australian, old Australian penny that somehow my granddad had, who was in the army. I don't know how he got it because apparently he'd never been to Australia, but I'm not sure. But my mum had sent it to my son with a little note saying, hey, your granddad had this. Don't know how he got it because he'd never been to Australia, but I thought you might like it. Keep it safe. It can be your lucky penny, whatever. So it's a 1913 Australian penny and he brought it out and he Was like, this could be valuable data. Uh, that's probably worth about 10 bucks, man. I wouldn't get too excited. I said, come on, we'll find out. So I just asked Chat GPT and said, how much is this worth? And it gave us a little range. If it's worn, it's probably worth three to ten dollars. If it's in reasonable cond to 50 in mint condition, $400 or something, whatever it was. And then took my phone. He goes, I'm going to take a picture and show it to Chat GPT because maybe it's not as worn as we think. Because I said to him, look, this is pretty worn. This is probably in the $3 to $10 range. He goes, I'm going to take a picture. And I didn't even know this existed on Chat GTP on my phone, but it went to video mode, not just to take a photo. And it was like on, on camera, on video. And then he was talking to it and he said, how much is this worth? And it said, oh, I can see the 1913 penny that you're talking about. I don't know if you've seen this feature. I wasn't even aware it was there.

Robert: No.

Gary: Um, taking a look at it, I can see that it's quite worn. It's obviously been in circulation. So it would be down at the value of that 3 to $10 range. I was like, oh my God, this is what my son's doing. Phone doing that. And then he just started talking to it. And then he was making photos and images because he loves to just talk and say, hey, make me a picture of an axolotl doing abc. It's funny. And I. This is actually this evening's conversation with him. I said, mate, this is hilarious. I said, when I was your age, I said, do you know that thing where you make like the old walkie talkies and get like a couple of cans, pull it tight? I said, when I was your age, that's what I was talking to with my mates. And you're talking to AI and making these incredible images. I said, that blows me away. He's like, yeah, whatever, dad.

Robert: Yeah, but it's just. Yeah. I went into the talk recently at a local school, it was a college, so these kids were kind of 16, 17 in the room and we're just talking about business. And I gave the talk that I thought I'd quite like to have heard at 16, 17, and I think, give it the big. I am, I'm this successful person. I've Made this money. You listen to what I say. It's like when I was your age I said I thought if I could be a manager of a mobile phone shop, I've crushed it because that was as high as I thought. And I was like, I just want to open your eyes up to see what's out there. Spoke about people that might know. All the youngsters knew Simon Squibb, what's your dream guy, but they didn't know you. Gary Vaynerchuk, Grant, uh, Cardo Roan, uh, Jim Rohns. Just interesting to kind of knew who they'd seen and whatever via Tick Tock. And there was just, I don't know, 80, 90 kids, 95 of them just fully checked out, couldn't care. Two or three of them came up afterwards and had a little conversation. There was all flipping trainers. Right. Which was a uh, funny thing. That was what they all seem to be doing.

Gary: Flipping trainers as in buying and selling just for those people.

Robert: Yes.

Gary: What flipping trainers means.

Robert: Yeah, yeah. And it was just interesting because I tend to very much come at this from a perspective of uh, when I think about my kids. Right. I want to help you to set up something for yourself. And the bigger picture is then is that something that everybody now has to do? Because if we look at there used to be leverage and there used to be capital in having a workforce and that's not true anymore because companies are drafting basically cutting workforces which means there's less and less jobs out there and these are being replaced by AI. And that's the first time in our history, uh, that that's ever happened. It's always been the other way. The person that has more staff will have a bigger business, usually kind of meet in sausages out kind of Industrial revolution type model. And uh, so it creates this really weird spot where is the only way to have any type of success which has always been a business, but you could have a career. But is it even if you're not striving to be really successful, is there a requirement that you have to run your own business? And then it falls into what the hell does everyone actually become? And I see this sometimes in the GHL world which obviously we're both a part of for go high level, which is you have most people that have an agency and they're, they've got a few clients, right? A small number of clients. You have a very tiny amount m out there, really crushed it with thousands, even a smallish percentage that got into the hundreds of clients and users. But most people Don't.

Gary: Right.

Robert: And it's an example to me of what this world is going to become, where there's a choice between do you just go it alone and try to build something, or do you plug into something that's bigger than yours, but you're no longer a staff and you're almost like an introducer slash an affiliate, a promoter of somebody else's thing. And it's. What does everything come back to? For me, everything I think comes back to. And I don't like this, but I don't really see how there's anything else out there, really. It's. For the majority of people, it's a personal brand and it's you being able to communicate effectively who you are, what you do, why you do it, and then you attach a product or an offer to that that kind of aligns with you as a person or you're somebody that creates a space for those people to operate in. And I'm really struggling to see for the kids where else you sit in that. Where it used to be, you'd get a job and there'd be some security, although there'd be a lot of limitations and restrictions maybe. And it's almost like we're replacing the job security with you now. Just have to be ever present online. And that. That seems very weird to me. What do you think? Am I talking rubbish?

Gary: So you're thinking more that personal brand is more important than ever now? Because we did touch on this last time when we were talking and that was my opinion. In your opinion. I think we had a little bit of a differing of opinion. There was like, yeah, it is at the moment, but it's probably not going to be in the future because you're going to have these AI brands. There's already AI bands out there making music and stuff like that, making millions of stuff. And we had a little bit of a different of opinion and I was very much of the opinion. I was like, yeah, look, I think it's really now. I don't know where it's going in the future. And you were like, yeah, I think it's important, but it's probably not going to be so important in the future, if I remember our conversation correctly. And I've very much. The more I've seen since we spoke, which is a few months ago, but things change fast. Right? Is that, um. I'm, I'm. I still think it's being more important than ever. And it sounds like maybe you're coming onto that opinion as well. Is that right?

Robert: Or Yeah, I think personal brand is important. I think I, I think sometimes we think of personal brand as something that is us. I don't think that is the only way to build a personal brand. I think the AI brand thing where people create, essentially you need to create a brand and a story that people give a about and the old fashioned way of doing that would be, hey, I'm Danny, I'm this and this type of person and I hate this, but I love this and I believe in this and I know this stuff that I'm going to tell you and teach you and share with you and I think there is that which I think is important. But I think there'll be a lot of people who won't be able to do that, but they will create an AI face, faceless, but an AI version

Gary: of that avatar version of yourself.

Robert: Yeah, correct. Yeah. But I think the understanding what is a brand for, uh, me a brand is all down to communication. It's how you can verbalize, explain, share thoughts, beliefs, ideas, message to people is quality of communication. Because if you can't communicate what it is that you're trying to say or what you wish to say, or you can't tap into and understand what the market is excited about at this moment in time, then there isn't a brand. Right. It's just somebody that's sharing content and ideas and thoughts on whatever. So it's the ability to tap into that. So yeah, who knows? So when we talk about.

Gary: No, we don't know my feeling and it's been really interesting because we've been a couple of events I've been at Rohin ah, who was at the one that we were just at with Fire. She talks about this a lot, like the importance of a brand. She has a branding app for you to use to get your personal brand out there to get you on podcasts and stuff like that. And I did a webinar uh, with her a while ago and one of the stats that she actually showed me, I forget the exact search term. So forgive me Raheem, if you're reading this or correct me and put it in the comments or somewhere. But people were searching on how to create a personal brand, I think was the term and Google search trends showing that basically going up and up over the last 18 months or so. So my feeling is at the moment that the personal brand, like having a real human behind the brand is that can then be amplified by an avatar and something so you can grow and scale and put that out there more. Because with the way that content's been produced now, the speed of content, like you just got to get out there. Like you can't sit there all day making videos. Right. You just can't. I mean, Alex Formosi maybe can, and he's got an army of people behind there and he can do two hours of content a day that can be split into 500 clips and out it goes. Right. But your average person can't do that. So you can amplify your brand with AI. Right now, to me, there's no replacement for a person behind that brand who can go out and you can look, see, feel and touch me. At an event or a conference, people want to come and see you and hear the story and know that there's a real person behind it. Something they can look, see, touch and feel. Right. Whether that will still be there in the future, I don't know. My feeling is that it will because people still want it.

Robert: Yeah. I feel like that becomes more and more and more important.

Gary: Yeah. People still want to see concerts. People love going to a concert. They want to see that person that wrote that song. Ed Sheeran's just done a big tour out here, you know, just him on a stage with guitar. He doesn't even have a band with him, it's just him. But people want to go and see that dude on a stage with a guitar playing his song. They want to be in that human experience and feel that. So I don't know when or if that will change in the future. Who knows, right? But for the, ah, foreseeable future, I think it's really important to have that human behind it and you can amplify it with AI.

Robert: I. I think let's. Okay, let's talk about AI. So like everything AI, people get excited and then there's resistance and then there's counterculture and then there's people pushing back and then there's people use it in derogatory ways. AI Slop and all this to try and sound cool and on, um, Vogue and whatever. Right. Whilst at the same time, right in there, this is AI Slop shit with an AI generative tech. I think what's going to happen is the. My personal beliefs are this, and I'm going to be specific to the type of business owner that I'm talking to now, the entrepreneur, uh, type who typically is a personal brand who works normally by themselves. Maybe they have two or three smaller people assisting them.

Gary: Right.

Robert: Va pa, text sort of people. Maybe someone that's working remote for them to support them. But generally it's that they're the business, they're the brand. I think there will have to be a switch in terms of how they run their day to days. And I think leading up to this with the post three times a day kind of crowd, which is 20% of your day spent on self promotion, which is normally content creation. Right. Or appearing on podcasts, things like this. And then 80% was in fulfillment. Right? So whether it's your building funnels to uh, promote yourself or systems, or whether you're on the calls or whether you speak to people or whether you're delivering a service, whatever, I think most people was like a 2080 split. And I think that has to flip the other way. And I think it has to flip the other way. So 80% of your time is spent self promoting at events, talk to people on podcasts, creating content, learning how to create content, thinking about message. Because we're uh, more and more in this attention economy where you can be forgotten about incredibly quickly if you stop posting. And the uh, reason you can be forgotten about so quickly is because things move on so fast and rapid, you can be out of date very quickly in this new world that we're stepping into. One of my clients crushed it teaching people how to use N8 in 2025, built a huge empire of a business he's had to start over again because everything left because, which is crazy because for me, NA10 and lots of people, it's still a new and exciting thing. But that space that he sits in is old. So he's now having to go all in on, on Claude and teaching people how to that stuff to stay relevant. So that relevancy, it's turned over so fast. So if we're not putting enough time and effort into content to keep us relevant, we get forgotten about. And I think a lot of people use AI and they go, oh, I can now do everything more productive, more quicker. I've created more time. I'm just going to fill more tasks in. And they just use the time in the same way that they've always used the time we mentioned. Alex Homozy. You know, the competition used to be online. It used to be somebody else who's in your niche, somebody else who's local, uh, friendly, entrepreneur and different people. Oh, they've got a challenge. I'll join their challenge. Oh, I like your webinar. Watch that. Oh, there's an offer. I'll maybe buy that from you at this moment in time. And now actually what we're doing is we're competing with the best of the best who are dominating the online space. So it's, we either need to put in more time and energy to compete with the best of the best or you need to go, I can't compete, I need to go into their world to collect the stuff that they don't get or help people to implement what they do. And so it just becomes this very hard place where people don't understand where they fit into the big picture of everything. And therefore they tend to run and operate their business not in the best possible way for what it is that they're trying to achieve. I was watching a video only yesterday, I saw and there was this super successful entrepreneur type, billionaire type, and he's basically talking about money and he was saying, what you need is to get to a stage where you've got in savings 25 times of whatever you need to live in a year. So if you need 100 grand to live in a year, you need 25 times that, right? You need two and a half million. But if you only need a thousand pounds to live for a year, you need 25k, right? So it's, it's relevant to what you want as a lifestyle. But I think people miss the nuance and they get swept up in what they think they should be doing based on what others are saying that they think they should be doing, as opposed to this, what the hell do I actually want to do? And I think the reality of it is you get a few people like ourselves who want to, for whatever reason, build bigger businesses, whether it's because they wish to, they want to, they feel a duty to whatever it is, right? But some people are inspired and motivated to do more and I think majority people sit below that where they just want to do enough, right? So they can just get by, they can just pay their bills, they can just live a nice happy lifestyle, which is becoming more and more difficult. The cost of living and how the world is, and it's just trying to find for those people, is it a personal brand? Is that the thing that creates distinction? Do they need to position themselves as a number one or actually would they be better to position themselves almost as a number two follower who helps people? You know what I mean? Like it's, where the hell do you, where do you position yourself? Is the personal brand for everyone? I can some ways make the argument, yes, it is, but I can also start to go down the rabbit hole of, and think, is it rather than spending loads of time commenting, so creating content, maybe I should just literally be there Reading the comments, I, uh, wanted to keep people of influence and just following up and serving those clients for someone else. It's. What's the easiest.

Gary: I think there's a couple of things in it, mate. One of them is that we sit in this space, right? So we're looking at AI. We're trying to keep on top of it. I've changed how I work so much. Just in the last month, I think I work. I used to. I used to use AI, right, and now I work with AI. And the difference being that I used to give it a task to do and it would spit me out some content or a thing. Whereas now I'm giving it complex stuff to do and it will go away. It will do it and I'll have a conversation with it, I'll get it to iterate it, then I'll move it on from producing the first layer of the content. Okay, we've completed that bit, now let's move into the next part of the content. So I'm working with AI, whereas I just used to use AI, right. For me, me personally, that's been a shift in the last four to six weeks, right. And I'm struggling with it as well, honestly. And I've. I'm fairly technical, right, And I'm struggling with that because now I've got all these things going and I have to keep going back to them. It's like having a whole bunch of stuff that I've got. Now I've got real stuff as well. And now I've got all these little AI stuff I have to keep going and checking in on, going, okay, oh, you've done it. Oh, no, you did that wrong. Rechange that, fix that, go through that. So now m. My workload is actually getting bigger at the moment. I've found in the last four weeks

Robert: because, yeah, managing AI.

Gary: Yeah, I am. I'm micromanaging AI because it needs to be micromanaged at the moment, right? So that's what's happening for me, right? But then there's all these business owners out there that haven't got a clue about AI, right? They're just not into it. They've heard of it, they might be using it. So like I talked about, like I used to use it. They might be using it for a bit. They'll use it to draft an email, they'll use it to create a Facebook post. They'll use it to do A or B or C. Right? They're not into it. And that is the majority at the moment. Some Stat. I read the other day that it's like that's 97% of people, whatever it was, 87.2% of all stats are made up anyway. We know that. Yeah. So whatever it was. Right. But it is the large. It's the majority of people using AI to a varying degree, and most of them are not using it that much or that. Right. So I think the opportunity at the moment, if we talk about branding, right, There's a big opportunity in the space that if I was going to go and do something tomorrow and I wanted to go out and start a new business, I think this would be a good one to do is to go and talk to these business owners who want to become a brand known in their area or known in their field, who are, uh, your local mechanic, your H Vac guy, you're whatever, right? We know the best way to get new clients is to give value, right? And the best way to give value is if you can make a little video. If I'm a Sparky, I'll make a little video saying, hey, by the way, three things that you can do to make sure that your electricity bill doesn't go up this summer. A, B and C. All right? I've just given them value. I haven't asked them for anything, done nothing. And they'll just make a bunch of those videos, right? And if I'm Tom the Sparky, people will see that, go, oh, Thomas Sparky is an amazing dude. He's giving me all these value. And then when a fuse blows or something happens in the house, I go, oh, tomorrow I remember him, I'll call him in, right? But Tom the Sparky is never going to make those videos, never in a million years, right?

Robert: No.

Gary: So I could do all that for him as a agency and go, hey, Tom, look, we'll do all this. We'll run you on social media. And what we'll do, we'll make an AI avatar of you, will make you the hero of the electrical world in your area, basically. And we'll just do all this. We'll run all these posts. You don't have to lift a finger, and everybody's going to know who Tom is behind it. So we're going to do what we were saying, as in, Tom is a real person behind the brand, but we'll AI him and stick him out there. And I think now there's a really good opportunity for people to do that and go to businesses, because I. I've done it. I don't know if you've done It But I know there's. There's plenty of people. We talk about this all the time in like the groups I'm in. Anytime you go to a client and you've got to get any piece of content from them specifically.

Robert: Yeah.

Gary: If you need to get a video from them for a bit of content for an ad takes forever. Right? It's the biggest blocker, uh, in the space. But if you can just.

Robert: It was the biggest problem for us building funnels. It was waiting for people to provide us via sales images now so we just create everything using AI Twin Studio. We just run the Versus. We do the whole thing. It used to take us a couple of weeks to build a funnel. And it wasn't because it was hard to build a funnel. It was because we was waiting for people to send us stuff and then the conversation back forth. We. We turn around about four hours now. And that's not now that we're vibe coding these which there's a quickening of turnaround. If you vibe code for lovable, which we've built a couple of businesses and sold them vibe coding. But we're not building our infrastructure vibe coding yet. I'm still very much belt and whistles inside of go high level to. To build our assets infrastructure because for us we can do it very fast anyway. But yeah, it just. There is. So there is an opportunity there for sure. But it's. It's still just a. It's a very weird thing because like the building trade, for example, builders don't. So let's roll out a scenario building trade for me and having come from being in a building trade family and mom did accounts for a building firm. Um, and my very first job, I was a building surveyor before I moved into anything else I was doing. So I know the building game really well. Plenty of friends, friend down the road. Craig, he's a carpenter. And you know, that world is based on. I get leads because I'm good, right. Reputation, you know, local reputation. And you and I know, right? If you, uh, supplement that with a nice social media strategy, then you can just probably do a little bit more. And a few people in that world do, but the majority is this, which is word of mouth reputation. This new world that we get, does it become so ugly and disconnected and unattractive and noisy that they look at it and go, I ain't touching that. That's just a bag of that avoid. Uh, no. And it makes them further away from it or do they go, oh, it's easier than it's ever Possibly been. I'll maybe lean into that a bit more. And so I just wonder if this is. Do you know what I mean? Does it create separation? Does that then create a new opportunity in the middle to bridge the gap? I don't know, but I just, I see the high street just seems to be dying more and more local services priced, uh, out. And I say this because I'm going back to the original conversation was having, which is, what the hell do you tell your kids to do?

Gary: A lot of people saying, go back to trades, plumbing, electric, because those people are going to make really good money over the next, you know, next number of years until the robots come in and then they can do all those.

Robert: Yeah. In which case we're royally flocked, all of us.

Gary: Yeah. So who knows when that happens? Right? I'm just trying at the moment. I'm just gonna. I'm trying to put like we're in a nice place so that for my family and my son, who can go, all right, you can figure something out and as long as you can just pay your bills, you're gonna be right, because we'll. Yeah, you'll be sorted out, basically. And we've got a good run space to do all that stuff for him now anyway. But, yeah, it's definitely a conundrum. It is an absolute conundrum for the family, you know, going back to that school thing, like what they're learning, learning to write, learning to study for exams. There's just every piece of knowledge at your fingertips here. And now I don't even do courses anymore. I bought a course on something other day because I wanted to learn how to do something right. I bought the course and then I just said to Manus, here you go, here's the logins. Go and read that course, watch the videos and then summarize it all for me. And I got that idea from Nuno when we were in Costa Rica actually, because he'd done the same thing. And he'd. He goes, I just bought this course today on how to do. I can't remember what it was, a thing he said. And I just gave it to Manus or Claude or whatever it was. And he said, go watch that and then implement everything for me. And he. It just went away. It watched everything. It built the landing page, built the funnel, built the ads, and it did everything. And he goes, and I didn't touch a thing. He goes, so what am m I going to do now? I don't even need to read the courses. That's where I'm at too. I'm like, I'm not reading stuff anymore. I'm not going to spend. I would have spent four hours reading this course watching the video.

Robert: I think that brings up, like, a really interesting point because I've never been someone that's purchased courses. If I have, give me the Cliff Notes, because most court bosses always have. I'll watch this first video. We give you an overview, and then there's a depth. And I've never watched the depth because

Gary: it's just skip to the bit you want, right?

Robert: And that is because there's a base foundation of knowledge and understanding that I have. So I can perhaps go, oh, I. I can get there quicker. There may be some other people who are new to industry. So if it's not courses, how the hell do people new to this figure this out? Because, like, we. All of our knowledge in this game, whether it's sales, marketing, business, everything goes back to fundamentals. And it's the same sort of people, right? It's your, uh, your Jim Rohns, it's your Dan Kennedy's. And all of people create versions. Alex Amozi, he's. He's. If you go back a few steps, he's a Dan Kennedy guy just repackaged or was maybe a Frank Kern guy, who's a Dan Kennedy guy, repackaged. And. But we all learned from somebody, right? And we learned the fundamentals, which is how we're able to make our decisions and what we do. If you don't have fundamentals and fundamentals aren't being taught, and it's so easy to get into this space. So here's an interesting question. We think we know best because of what we know. And I also see people who are brand new to this, who come in, let's say, on Facebook, right? If someone says to me, john, you can go on Facebook, you can get in front of hundreds of millions of people, you can get thousands of likes and comments on your personal posts every day. Facebook will push you out. You can grow a massive business in 12 months. Having never been on it, I've been like, but there's so many people who have done it over the last 12 months, literally come from nowhere, blown up, gone crazy. And the question is, then, is it a case of we're in a better position because we've got fundamentals? Which kind of brings it back to at some point, you, you need a course, or how do you even know what you don't know, right? There's a learning space, or actually it's all, ah, irrelevant anyway, because everything's about to change. So none of us actually have any fundamental foundational knowledge. And if anything, maybe it holds us back because we think we do have this foundational knowledge with which to build upon. Where do you think things are going? Do you see it being more one way or the other?

Gary: Not sure. He's talking about, like, foundational knowledge, uh, getting to do this stuff. Like, my wife, who she has a completely separate business, right? I'm a partner in the business, but I actually don't have any real input into it other than, like, she'll ask me some questions now and again. I helped a little bit with the setup, but me and my wife, we actually don't work that well together, right? We're just not very compatible. So it's better that we don't work together, right? There's little bits that we'll do and stuff, but better that we separate. Better for us to stay married than to work in a business together, right? So she's had some issues in her business going on for a while, and I could fix them, right? Because I could have gone in, I could use AI and I could have done it, but I haven't done it because I still needed her, uh, input to tell me what's the process that. There's a process she was trying to fix with scheduling. She runs a health retreat, and they need to schedule the clients that are there with the practitioners for the week, right? Uh, and then that schedule needs to be moved around a little bit sometimes because people change and they just have this laborious process of a spreadsheet that goes into one piece of software that goes into another one and pulls it out, and then they have to tie it all up anyway. Laborious process. I thought, look, you could automate all of that stuff, right? But she didn't tell me the process. Like, you've got to tell me what it is. And then I ended up actually connecting her with someone else who I said, look, they could do it for you. Work with them then. But in the meantime, I'm always. I seed things to my wife, right? Do you ever do this? You just seed ideas there. This is what you want to. So I kind of seed things to her. Uh, and I was just showing her stuff that I was doing with Manus and showing her and showing her. And then one day she came back, she goes, yeah, I just did all that today with Manus. I just went through. And my wife's very smart, but she's not that technical, right? And she went yeah, so I just went through with Manus and then I connected up the APIs between these two bits of software and I gave it an example of the spreadsheet and I told it the process that I wanted and then I just hit go and it just did it all. And there was a little bit in between where I had to fill it in. But this four hour process now takes 10 minutes. And she did all that and she doesn't know what an API key is, but she just asked Manus to do this. And Manus asked her and said, is there an API key? He's like, well, I don't know, like deserve, uh, can you find out? And it went and found out and said yes, there is, this is what. And it told her how to connect it. So you don't need that much knowledge to do it, you know, you just need the willing and the want to go and do it.

Robert: So that brings up a really interesting point then. So that, that would say that we don't perhaps need knowledge because I was always told that you need to learn how to do things so you can hire someone to make sure it's right. All this AI stuff is so new, right. We couldn't even, even if we learned it, it'd be out of day, right. So we have to give up with learning or knowing or understanding.

Gary: Right.

Robert: So there's a, there's a humbleness and a removal of the ego. Right. So ah, it, right, let's just let that do it. So in which point then everything comes, becomes simple in business. We just need to go, there's a particular pain point or there's a particular aspirational goal that we either want to help people get away from or we want to help people get to. And here's something that I like and that's it, you know, which, what does it all then come down to? It comes down to it can be, what's my knowledge, what's my skill, what's my passions, what do I like to do? And that becomes our businesses, which in many ways that uh, becomes all the way full circle back to two, 300 years ago when everybody used to be an independent shop owner. You just used to, how did people make money? Right? You would just. My family trade is this right? I carried on with the family trade. My family name is Clark Bank. Clark. Right. It's almost like that's what it's going back to. There's a simplicity and a pureness to idea implementation. How is it done? AI does it, and that's actually quite close to being. That's enough. So what differentiates us? But it comes back to what we're saying. It's brand, then. Brand. And what is brand? Brand is the ability and the willingness to be able to communicate what you do and who you do it to and why you do it and when you're going to do it by and what's going to happen, what's to do with you. And everything else is quite irrelevant. So it collapses everything, which was a complex business to hey, here's the thing, buy it or don't and that's it. Which kind of brings it full circle back to its attention economy. Offer them something as quickly as possible. AI will do the rest. Find the next person.

Gary: Yeah. And you'll still need people to do that. Implementation of AI So I mentioned how at the moment I'm learning a new craft of working with AI, right? I have all these ideas and throw it in and I'm working with it, right? But I've also got a team, right? And I'm also trying to get my team to work with AI is AI first. I've literally told them, said, I don't want you to think about this. I tell you to do something, I don't want you to think about it. I want you to go to AI and ask it to put it together, right? And we, we run my Serum Semrush. We have this SAS platform and text messaging. We still have clients as well in the traditional. We run ads and Facebook ads and SEO and stuff like that, right? And we're using AI in that. And one of my team actually said to me the other day, he goes, like, why are our clients going to need us soon M to do any of this stuff, right? Because AI makes it so easy to do it all. And I literally said to him, you met Carlos, right? I literally said to him, I said, I said, but they still going to need people to do this stuff for them, right? I said, look at all the things that you do, right? I ask you to do it because I'm not going to do it. I am not even going to go to AI because there's too much to do, right? I am not going to go to AI and manage all the things that need to be done or even put it in and go through and review it. I need someone else to go and do that and manage. That's now. I don't know at what point it's all going to be managing itself. And now you can build all armies of bots that self manage, but they still have to report up somewhere. Someone's got to review it, make sure it's working right. And you don't have a, uh, open claw that goes through. And who was it? Someone at Facebook or somewhere. They ran their open claw and deleted all their emails and stuff like that. It's still got to be managed, right? At some point maybe that's going to be better, right? But you're still going to need managers of the AI. So learning AI and how to get the best out of it is still a skill that we are learning and it's getting better, but we're still learning it. What we'll come back and review this conversation in six months time and we'll go, yes, I'm going to do that anymore. I'll just give it a one liner and it goes away and it talks to my product manager and my designer and my this and my that and my whatever and then it just builds the whole thing and it comes back and it's perfect. But it probably, I know, probably won't be in six months time because it's like having staff, right? It's. And it really is like having staff.

Robert: I mean that's how you need to treat your AI. You need to treat it as a staff member with a specific list of tasks and roles that they have to fulfill. The only thing that stops at the moment, which is what you've said, is the management. Because if I'm an individual business owner, I could go with AI. Now I need a content creation team, I need production, I need fulfillment, I need this, this. But people can't manage that many people. If I went and hired 10 staff, never mind affordability, right? Let's say people can't afford it. Let's just assume that you can because now AI makes it cheaper. Most people don't have the skills to be able to manage and deal with the challenges that you would have to deal with. The pathway to freedom essentially is the same pathway. It's a different vehicle. Right? It's those five levels of leadership. It's uh, that John Maxwell stuff. It's going from working for yourself to being able to run a small team to be able to have two or three managers that each run a small team. It's the same thing, except it's an AI that's doing it. What a crazy world.

Gary: Unless we could build the perfect AI that just trades the stock market. I'm still looking for that one. Yeah, you just give it your money.

Robert: I see it, I see that. They didn't, haven't they, I See, Trump, they want to. Trump's sons literally brought that up. They've got something now. I, I don't know the details of it, but it's the first, the first one. Yeah. Where it.

Gary: Often claiming it, but yeah.

Robert: Ah, yeah, there was, I think there was issues with there being permissions in terms of being able to run it, because I know there's, in terms of checking the. I don't know, I don't know enough about it, but I, I did see something that. This is the beginning of the end game.

Gary: Yeah. Because when they get that, right, and you've got AI that can just trade the stock market perfectly, nobody's losing what's going to happen there.

Robert: Yeah, but it's, it's, it's, it's just a funny thing, isn't it? Because with all of this stuff, the, the only point that any of us have is trying to create a little bit of happiness for ourselves. Right. Essentially that's what it boils down to as individuals. And then as we get older, we get responsibilities, which is, um, spouse is right. Or however you set up your, your dynamic at home and then it becomes children and then it's local community maybe. Right. And some of us may have wider communities because of the way that we live our lives or, or whatever. And we do all of this because we have always lived our lives to do this. Right. That's always been the way, right. As you become a bit more successful, you're supposed to help a few more people, right? Should get a bit wiser. You're ready for a, uh, marriage, you've grown up enough, right. You're ready for kids. But this time thing that there's always been has gone. So everything is almost just instantaneous. And that's just a very crazy thing to me. And, uh, it's interesting. The other thing that I think is really interesting is bring it back to AI so many people talk about those people that have 50 staff working for them, right? With AI you can now build a business the same as them, right. It's almost, oh, here's the equalizer. And I think to myself, If I had 50 staff and I taught them all to be really good with AI it's not equal anymore because I've got 50 more people running AI uh, than you have. Who's on your own. So I think there's a short term equalization and then actually it just, it flies off again in the same way. So I don't know. I think we need to make this a trilogy, Gary. In six months time because,

Gary: well, yeah, we'll see. Because, yeah, it's going to change, you know.

Robert: What do you reckon?

Gary: Nuno in as well? Nuno, what's. What should we do with our lives?

Robert: Uh, yeah, yeah. This is just why I play in coach football, mate. It's easy. Just get on that pitch, mate. I don't have to worry about any of this stuff.

Gary: And I think we're worrying too far in the future. I think short term, as in, let's say, two to five years, I think there is a big Runway for people to take the opportunity and run with it. Because there are so many people not using AI, the space that we're in as sort of just going back, like, the space we're in, we worry about it, we're looking. And I don't know about you, I don't. I don't feel like I'm on the forefront of AI, particularly because I see people that just so more advance than me and they building their open claw and they claw this and this and that and the other me. I'm in a space where I would say, I play with AI, I get it, do some pretty cool stuff for me. I build MVPs and then I hand it off for someone else to do. Because I don't want to be sitting there building stuff with AI, Personally, I don't actually really want to do that. I don't want to sit there all day talking to AI. Right. Uh, I want to come up with the ideas, be creative, think of the vision and then pass that off. Right? And I think we've got a good, really good Runway for the next two to five years where that's all going to need to be managed and you need to pass it off. And there's just not enough people using AI yet, or caught up or even have any idea what's possible. If you go down your local pub and just talk to people sitting at the bar there, most of them maybe have heard of AI and go, oh, you know, you can do a lot with it, but if you actually sat down and showed them and went, here you go, look. If you pulled out your laptop, went, here you go, look, look, I could build an app, give it, get an idea from hm, go, hey, look, I'll build your idea for an app while we have a pint. And I'll bet you by the time we finished our pint, I'll have a working demo for you. You would blow their mind. They wouldn't have a clue that you could do that. But that's. And that's where most people will sit at the moment. There's so many people that still need that help and assistance with getting AI into the business. But not telling them you're going to get AI because that's the thing, people just don't understand. They need it. Hey, how can we make you get more customers, be more operationally sound, all these things faster, reply to leads faster. Right, we're going to use AI for that. Don't tell them we're going to put AI in your business. They just don't know that they can do all that stuff yet. There's a good. I think the short term future looks really positive. Two to five years beyond that, you'd be literally just throwing a coin up in here and might even land on

Robert: the side right now, who knows? Depends which rabbit hole you go down and believe in. What's going to happen anyway the next five years?

Gary: What's going to happen in the next five weeks? Mate, um.

Robert: Oh, mate, some crazy that I read online sometimes. I ain't even gonna start going there.

Gary: My wife goes down all those rabbit holes and she comes,

Robert: I'll tell you super quick. Well, I see this weekend, uh, it made me laugh and I was like, oh, maybe that's true. There's a gigantic dragon frozen in the Antarctic. Antarctic. And that's why they're trying to do global warming. So this dragon comes back and kills us all. I was like, oh, my God, what a crazy world we live in. That that's either right or people believe in that and it's wrong.

Gary: I think someone was watching that Matthew McConaughey and Christian Bale movie where it was in the underground in London, wasn't it? And it came out. That's. Oh, uh, my God, yeah.

Robert: I just love it. It's just entertainment, isn't it? Who knows? Who knows what a wild world we live in. Crazy. Crazy.

Gary: Maybe it's just all a complete simulation. M We're coming back to the AI simulation all in the Matrix, man.

Robert: There's a couple of people who are quiet and respectfully and they've maybe a sideways turn into a little bit they've learned that way, which is basically the point about AI and actually, yes, it is artificial intelligence, but actually does it tie into something which is more of an intelligence, which is outside of the universe? And is it actually people from different dimensions and how they communicate to give us this lost knowledge? I'm like, holy. It's just chat GPT, bro.

Gary: It's just chat GPT. Make some funny images and get on and make dinner.

Robert: Yeah, exactly. And go and look after the kids. Jeez. I don't think we wonder school don't teach this stuff. No, they're right. Not too.

Gary: No. I think if my son had, uh, any idea of the capabilities. He's only eight, so it's very hard for him to craft. It's half hard enough for us to grasp, right? But if you had any idea of the capabilities and what he could do, he would just be like, why am I learning anything? He would. He would literally just go, this is pointless. What am I doing? He says that anyway about squeeze. What's the point of this? Like, he says the same things that you do, right? Or you did about the calculator. He's. Why am I learning math? I've got a calculator. What's the point? Why do I need to learn this? And I, uh.

Robert: I just need, if anything, I need to not be conditioned because I need to think of new things that's outside of this current system and go, oh, here's something that we should probably think and fix and do something with. Hey, I. Help me to do that. That's the creator, right? So anyone who can step outside the system, the creator, I think they. Those kids make a lot of money in the future.

Gary: That's the conversation I have with him a lot. Because like most kids, he doesn't have screen time. He doesn't have a phone, doesn't have an iPad, but he does get to watch TV sometimes. Sometimes he comes home tired from school and watch a bit of YouTube or whatever. And we've probably slipped a little bit more with that as he's getting a little bit older now, whereas we used to be very strict on that. But I do tell them there's something

Robert: to do that creative, you know, that's

Gary: what I tell them. I say, you, I want you to be a creator out of this, not a consumer, right? So I try and get him to watch educational stuff. And there's. You may or may not know him. There's a dude called Mark Rober on YouTube and he does all these things, you know, makes all these cool things. And he must be making a fortune because he has his Crunch Lab boxes that kids can buy. My son's been at me for ages like, he wants this box, and we made him earn it. So he had to do certain things for a month to earn the Crunch Labs box. And now he's getting the Crunch Lab box every month because that's a cool thing, because he gets to build and engineer something, gets to Create. Being a creator, not a consumer is the most important thing, I think. Consume knowledge, obviously, but, uh, what can you create? Spend more time creating than you'll actually win the game at the end of the day anyway, because those are the people that are going to succeed.

Robert: Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, let's go and create something then.

Gary: All right, great, Great dinner.

Robert: Thank you, Gary. I appreciate that. It's always a fun, interesting conversation to have, and I hope this is helpful and useful for those guys jumping in and watching. I think the one thing that I would say is, anyone watching this? Gary and I clearly have not got anything figured out. So we, if we could make a success in sas, then anybody can.

Gary: It is. It's that ready, fire, aim thing, or fire, fire, aim, ready, whatever it is.

Robert: Imperfect action, never been more true than today.

Gary: Gotta do something, right? Do something. Just put it out. Do something.

Robert: Ignorance on fire is better than knowledge and ice.

Gary: Yeah, I was actually thinking today, right. And, um, you'll see this a lot in the space, right? All these people, they're vibe coding. They vibe coding all things. I'm making this all agentic and got all these things, and I'm vibe coding this process. I'm vibe coding this tool. And I know that a lot of people, they're doing all this vibe coding, automating all these things. It's like you haven't got enough customers to worry about. Vibe coding that. Go and get customers first.

Robert: Do the first thing first. Second thing. Second, third thing third, do that.

Gary: We talked about that. Get your mvp. Do that thing. You did a great presentation where you spoke through the challenges with a lady specifically in Costa Rica, going through and a little funnel that she had had and where she was getting stuck and she was stuck on the perfection, and she wasn't getting the customers through, first of all. So get the customers, sell that, and then just build this part of the platform and then you can build the next part. So I think if we can leave people with anything, there's plenty of hope. Taking perfect action and go and get customers first. And right now, build a good brand, go and talk to people, get on the phone, make your socials better, uh, get yourself out there, make yourself known, talk to the right people, and just start, uh, building something where you actually have more conversations with people. Just have more conversations and they will lead to things. I think that's the important thing, right? Just have good conversations with people. And it's a different economy now in terms of give value. You've got to give value. We've built our SaaS from giving value. I've given away so much in terms of courses and content that, uh, people are, uh, charging thousands of dollars for. Literally, we've just given it away. I've given away thousands and thousands of dollars. I don't even know how much in affiliate commissions because I just. I promote people. I get them to come on and I say, hey, can you come on and teach our audience something cool? Because you've got either a cool product or a cool piece of information or a cool service or a cool bit of knowledge, whatever it might be. Come on and teach people. And I don't ask for affiliate commissions. I just say, hey, come and do that. All right, so make those connections. Just give away. And then, uh. It sounds a bit corny, but it comes back around. Right. And that's what I feel the economy is. Yeah. Really want to.

Robert: I definitely agree about goodwill.

Gary: Do that. Goodwill. We'll come back around, which is hard to do at first when you're trying to pay the bills. If there are people out there, you're going, but I need to make money today. Right side. Hustle. Mow the grass, paint some windows, keep your day job, whatever it might be. The bills build goodwill on the side, that goodwill will come back around.

Robert: I definitely agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the very first times I learned about goodwill was I wanted testimonials. And I kept asking people for testimonials, and they said, yeah, I'm gonna get around to. I'm gonna get. And people never would. So I'm gonna stop asking, and I'm just gonna go and give everyone I know a testimonial. And I just went on my LinkedIn. I went all day, every day for about a week, and I wrote about, uh, 250, 300 testimonials. And guess how many testimonials I got back, right? It was about 250, 300 testimonials back. So it's funny, right? You gotta go first sometimes.

Gary: Give, give and thee shall receive. Whatever.

Robert: That's it. That's it.

Gary: I think so, man. Really good to chat here. See you in Australia soon with. There's a little in the kids.

Robert: Hey, we'll make it happen. You said you're gonna pay for the flight over, right?

Gary: Oh, mate. M sorry. Just my Internet just came.

Robert: My breakup.

Gary: You're doing some cool talks for your. At Tube Fest in Birmingham.

Robert: Yeah, Birmingham.

Gary: A couple months.

Robert: Yep. And then we've got our own mastermind, which we're gonna do in April. We've got our own event which we haven't confirmed the date yet which would be June July time I think it'll be July um we've got Caitlyn's retreat in Italy in August time which would be fun we should speaking at then October I've always said I was never going to go to level up because it's gonna be son's birthday but it just missed my son's birthday so I think I'll head over to that this year awesome. Yeah so lots of cool stuff off we'll see each other a lot this

Gary: year we will mate Links for you freedom funnels.com if anyone wants to find you Is that the best one?

Robert: How should people find me? That's a great question Instagram it's Danny Clark Facebook Danny Clark. If you want to know anything else head over to hellofreedom.com awesome mate thanks

Gary: for your time Danny, always a pleasure

Robert: all uh right thanks mate.