SaaS Dads S2/E12: He's Leaving Australia After 16 Years… To Give His Son Something Money Can't Buy

Speaker A: Solve it.

Speaker B: I'm pretty good at spacing everything else out and just go mile deep and just dog with bone. And I just don't let go of it, uh, until I figure it out. They're there, we're here, and everybody's getting older. And I guess the priorities in life change a little bit that time and time again. Everybody have interviewed. Pick a niche, pick one feature, uh, frame the pitch around it, around the results. High Level is going to have it. And then now you've moved out and then you're going to think, maybe I should have stayed.

Speaker A: Welcome to SAS Dads, where we scale SaaS without sacrificing family. All right, there we go. Cool. So welcome back for another SAS Dad. And I've got Vit Muller here today from Standout from the Pack and the, uh, High Level Experience podcast. How are you there? Hey, Gary.

Speaker B: Um, great to be here. I'm m. Well, mate, just had a good lunch. Pad Thai and now I'm having a coffee and yeah, life is good.

Speaker A: Nice, man. This is a bit different for you, mate, because you do the High Level experience as well as running a Sass. We'll talk about all these things, right? You run a Sass, you're married, you've got a six and a half. Six and a half year old. Six year old son. He's five.

Speaker B: Turning six in November.

Speaker A: Sorry, mate. Five year old son. And, uh, you do the High Level Experience podcast as well, which is probably the biggest podcast for High Level generally. I think I know that's pretty good anyway. But you're normally used to being on the other side of the mic asking the questions. Today I'm going to ask you some questions. I don't ask you questions. We'll have a discussion. So something a bit different for you, Matt, because I've never even seen you be on another podcast. You've done plenty of podcast, but I've never seen you be on another podcast, mate.

Speaker B: Yeah, I wonder why that is. I don't know, maybe it's not enough time in the day or. I tell you what, back in 20. 2020 is when I, um, did another podcast before called Success Inspired. Part of that launch was to get a bit of a feel of how other people do it. So I was interviewed on a podcast. I can't remember the name, but yeah, it was here in Canberra. But I have not been on any podcast since then.

Speaker A: I think five years, six years.

Speaker B: Yeah. I just put myself in a hosting seat and just been hosting others, giving opportunity for others to share their wisdom.

Speaker A: I Think it's time for everyone to find out a bit about you. So as I said, you, your agency, stand out from the pack. You run your SAS from there, run the High Level Experience podcast. Five year old son, you live in Canberra currently as well. So we're going to talk about like all of these things as well. But I want you just to dive in a little bit about. Because currently live in Canberra, but I know that you're actually, you're from Czech Republic originally and your wife is also from Czech Republic and you're actually moving back there towards the end of May, I think mid May, right? Yeah, 12th of May. And yeah, we're in March at the moment, so in six weeks or so roughly.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And just turn off my phone. Yeah, yeah, it's. Where do we start? What do you want to know?

Speaker A: What's the main reasons for moving back there? Because you've been in Australia for. Been here since your son's been born, right? Or no, I think he was born. You came here when you very young, didn't you?

Speaker B: He was born here in Canberra, 2020. But yeah, I've been here since 2010. So it's been 16 years.

Speaker A: Yeah. So why the move back after all this time?

Speaker B: Yeah, M mate, family. Family is everything. Me, m and my wife, we met here in Sydney. Funnily enough, she is from, not just from Czech Republic, but she's literally my hometown. Her hometown 30 minutes away. And uh, we met in Sydney. So. But now, yeah, we, we did a little bit of break a year and a half ago. We go back, we were living in Czech Republic. So when my son was one year old, we like, hey, let's go back home for one year. At the time it's just freshly started. My agency and I was doing everything online, I'm like, let's test it. Let me shut my laptop, jump on the plane, get off the plane and see if I can continue around my business. And I thought I could and I did and actually it worked. And so the plan was to go there for a year because we felt. And it was also covet ended and things started to open up. Right. So yeah, we were like a uh, family back home. They don't really get to see our son and we felt bad about it and we wanted him to build the bonds of the family back in Czech. So we went there for a year and actually ended up extending it for two and a half years. So that was. And then after we've been there for that long, we're like, hey, are we Going back to Australia. Yeah, we got to go back. I got to run my business locally in Canberra. I can do more if it's face to face. So we came back in November 2024, but last year, 2025. Throughout that year we're like realizing it's. It's a bit tough. You got. When you got no family around you to be able to. There's many aspects to it. Right. But one of them being just me and my wife is being able to go out to a movie or to a dinner or we can't do none of that.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So that's going to be a, uh, plus. But more than this, I would say it's the fact that we just not with them. They're there where he and everybody's getting older and uh, I guess the priorities in life change a little bit if you ask me. Maybe 10 years ago, I was five years into being here, pursuing my fitness career and wanting to be a citizen. That's all I had on my mind, just to become an Australian citizen and make it happen. I had completely different priorities back then. Now I'm a dad, I've got son, got a wife. We're healthy, but we're, yeah, we're just missing. There's a bit of a void and we're missing it. And also they miss us and they miss our son. And so we're like, let's just go back. What else is going to change? Nothing else. We got citizenships, we're sorted, we can always come back. Uh, the business is awesome. Thank you. High level what you're creating for us, we can do it from anywhere. And yeah, so that's kind of

Speaker A: ah, resonate with that mate. Because it's not uh, having family around or that support. So you can't go out for date nights with your wife or you've got to pay for babysitters. And maybe m. You don't always want to pay for babysitters. Also in the reality of things, it doubles the cost of your date night as well. It starts to get very expensive to go out for a meal. You're paying for someone else to come and look after your child and you don't really want to pay other people to look after your child. I don't really like that. I find that's a bit. Especially when you babysitter, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, especially when you think, my parents, Lucy's parents, my grandparents, they don't get to see Lucas. We're gonna get a babysitting sorted and they uh, get to hang out with him. It's a win, win for everybody.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it's going to be a big change though after so many years here, especially for you. 16, 16 odd years here, going back there. How are you going to make that shift as well? So you're going to move your whole, your whole life is moving and you've got to move your business with you as well. Where's your business at in terms of being able to run that from Czech Republic? All your clients local here, clients in the US, clients everywhere?

Speaker B: No, so most mostly my agency like SaaS clients on um, stand up from the park, they're across Australia mostly. I've got one guy in New Jersey but yeah. And then working with agencies in us that's actually going to be easier because of the time zone with Europe. But yeah, I've got it all sorted out actually. Company wise. As a director you can't be away for more than six months.

Speaker A: It's a rule.

Speaker B: So I'm um, going to be appointing somebody in the business there. I've got a bit of a plan there but I think I want to keep the Australian company. I was thinking, I was doing a big research I think two months ago, like Dubai, Czech Republic, like setting up an entity there. Pros and cons. I just ended up deciding I'm just going to keep it in Australia. The PTY Limited. Uh, so that's not going to, that's, there's zero impact there, uh, with clients. I'll just have to adjust my times a little bit, wake up a little bit earlier for meetings. I don't think it's going to be a huge deal. The upside is I'm going to have access to a bigger market. Right.

Speaker A: UK us.

Speaker B: UK us yeah, yeah. So time zones more favorable and then moving, um, the whole life.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because we've done that little stint two years ago, a year and a half ago. Being there for two years, just get a bit of feel of what it's like being back home. So it's not going to be that drastic anymore for us. And in terms of we're renting here, we're not, we don't own the house so that's easy. And then uh, in terms of all the stuff that we got on, all the stuff that you buy over these, it's just stuff. Anyway, so all I did the other day is I uh, went in the garage and I just had. You know how you got the GPT on the phone? The app, you can just talk to it and I just talked. I was just looking at it was weird. I was actually pointing finger at stuff as I was talking to it. Just as if she was there with me talking to she, uh. Anyway, talking to AI and just describing what I'm seeing. Hey, here's a bike, black bike just being serviced and just describing every single item. It was actually really efficient. And then I just went back to the desk and said, hey, create me a CSV table of all that. And I got 100 items and counting of like title description for Facebook Marketplace. And it's just putting my marketing head on. Hey, create my description that's going to help sell this. This is all used stuff but like I just uh. It's annoying dealing with people on Marketplace where you. I don't know if you tried selling something but you know, yeah, we're going through that process right now. But yeah, created a little CRM in a spreadsheet with all the items and changing the statuses to list sold all that. It's actually interesting exercise to see how much value the things that you own actually have. It's actually not that much when you think of it. And it's just stuff.

Speaker A: It's just stuff and it's worth next to nothing to other people. I've got a couple of things right now I'm trying to sell on Marketplace and one, uh, of them is like a bed. It's probably like a 2000 plus dollar odd bed frame that was custom made. Can't even sell it on Marketplace. And when I'm giving it away somewhere, got fish tanks to try and sell. Same thing, fish tank chiller. A thousand dollars worth of stuff, nobody's even interested. Yeah, that's not fun getting rid of all that stuff. But anyway, mate, you'll get through it. You'll get through. You make the move and either, either get rid of it, but don't ship it back, mate. Get rid of it. Just, it's just stuff. It's stuff that we accumulate in our life and it's not worth it does put it in perspective. You can walk around and look at that stuff that you've acclaimed accumul and obviously getting that now with going. The value is for me to go and be back with my family, spend that time with my son, have my son, have that relationship with the rest of my family, my wife's family. The stuff is just stuff, isn't it? It just, it can go.

Speaker B: Yeah. The hard thing is the emotional attachment to certain things. Right. Because they were part of your life. I found this box full of T shirts. I used to have a Business called Vidfit, which was a personal training and outdoor boot camps business. And um, 2016, I had a mate of mine who worked for Nike factory outlet in Sydney. So I went there and he sold me all these dry fit T shirts, these nice quality ones for staff, right. 15 bucks a pop. I had them all printed. So I got 50 different T shirts, all different sizes, never been worn. Oh man, that's. I don't know, two grand I paid with all the printing and everything.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And now I'm like, what do I do with it? I can't just throw it away. I can't really sell it. It's branded. So I just started giving it away to all my friends. Hey, we're moving out. So here's some, here's something to it so you can think of me when

Speaker A: I determine bit fit T shirt giving the homeless. You'll see that. You'll see all the homeless people running around Canberra in bit fit T shirts. Yeah. Something for Canberra to remember you by, man. How are you? How's your son? About the move, do you understand the move doesn't. Oh, he doesn't know.

Speaker B: He doesn't know. So he knows that we're going to be moving back to check, but he does, he doesn't know that it's happening now. And uh, we don't want to tell him because we don't want to like, we don't want him at school to have either just started treat him differently or just so we're going to leave it to the end so he doesn't get impacted by it.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's Lisa, his age. He's young. So I've got friends but their friends are very transient at that kind of age. Anyway, they're in and uh, out. Has he started school even yet or. He's still in.

Speaker B: Yeah, he's in Kindy now.

Speaker A: Kindy, okay. Yeah. So they're just starting so the move will be easy enough. Does he speak Czech? You guys speak with him at home, so language barrier.

Speaker B: Speak very well and he's. His English, he picked it up so well in January last year. He, he barely knew English words and within three months he was fluent with just being around all the kids. So yeah, he's picked it up real, real well. But he's a smart cookie. There's people coming in to pick up stuff as we're selling it, as I mentioned through marketplace and like he sees us taking stuff out and little things disappearing. So he's like, what's going on?

Speaker A: They pick up on everything, mate. They know what's going on all the time, man. Yeah, but yeah, that, that's definitely going to be a big move for you and for the family mate. And is that gonna, you think that's gonna get you more time with the family? Is the idea to uh, are you gonna have to almost not start again with the business, but you're gonna have a new direction and new focus if you've got a plan around family time for that to continue the growth and scaling of the company. Especially if you're going to move into the US time zone. I don't know what that's. Does that mean you're going to end

Speaker B: up working, uh, around 3:00 in the afternoon when I'm in Czech Republic is when us is 9am so it's perfect.

Speaker A: Okay. But then that could mean you'd have to work a bit later into the night, so maybe three till eight or something because you've got to get people up to lunchtime, you've got to give yourself a few hours. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. Actually I went through the exercise on the weekend. I've updated all my high level calendars in my sub accounts, uh, for that time zone. So I think it's going to be like waking up at 7am to catch the end of the day for Australia for 3pm onwards, which is still okay. And then I'll have a nice period of quiet from a.m. to p.m. where nobody's gonna call me, nobody's gonna email me because both us and Australia is sleeping. So, uh, I'm thinking I'm gonna have a block from myself to go and exercise. Go gym or. We've got beautiful mountains where I'm from. Half an hour by car and you can walk on the hills, actually. Mountains. So a bit of that and then us wakes up. So if I've got any meeting there, I'll do a bit of that. And then by then my son's going to be back from school. So there's a couple of things I'm going to be changing for sure in terms of my time and how much I give my time to my son. And it's not really been much to be honest, because I'm just a bit nuts with work.

Speaker A: You're a very focused man, Vi. I know that if anyone's ever seen any of the stuff that you've built or put together in terms of snapshots or anything, you are one of the most detailed, precise people that I know of. Anything I've seen that you've put together, you are a very detailed orientated person. I know that for sure.

Speaker B: Look, I, I think it's a, it's a. Both strength but also that's got, it's a double sided coin blessing and a curse. Oh, uh, big time mate. I can. If I've got a problem and trying to solve it, I'm pretty good at spacing everything else out and just go mile deep and just dog with a bone and I just don't let go of it until I figure it out. It's great because you can go for a detail and get everything thought out but a lot of other stuff falls off and that's not good.

Speaker A: That's the juggling act between all these things running your business and your family. Right. There's a juggling act between all of that. And then m business composes of many things. Your family at uh, the moment just composes of you, your wife and your son. But that's going to grow as well because now you're going to want to spend more time with the rest of your family or both families. You're going to go from no family to two families spend more time with as well. And then these time zones, uh, from my point as well, the way I manage that, uh, because I'm thinking of you starting work at three o' clock for us times that's when I stop work because I finish work at three because that's when I go pick up my son. But then I end up going back to work at 8pm most nights because 8pm is when I have a short day anyway because of that. So I work roughly 9 till 2:30 ish, depending on the day. Some days I'll drop my son off so I don't get to start till 9. Some days I don't drop him off so I might start a little bit earlier. But those days I'm picking him up. So 9 till 2:30 is generally my working day which is not very long. It's only sort of five five and a bit hours. Right. And then just because of the time as well it means I can't talk to my development team or people in the US as well. I've got to do webinars, podcasts so m a lot of evenings I'll go back to work at 8pm so that means my day is very split in a morning shift and then a nighttime shift if I spend that three tail eight with my son.

Speaker B: So you must be working till on a 2am because how would you catch us when they usually wake up around midnight Sydney time?

Speaker A: Yeah. So I have Been at times. And that's what I'm trying to pull back now as well. So from my own experience, it's like, that's really hard doing that split shift. So I'm just thinking that when you're saying you're going to start at 7 and then do an afternoon shift when the US comes on at 3, but that's when your son will end up coming home from school. So it's definitely a balance now. I'm sure you'll figure it out, you'll find your groove. But, um, in terms of time, I found that quite challenging because there isn't a break there, really, for me. You're saying you're going to go and do walks and stuff. You have that time block in the middle of the day. I hope you do. And I definitely would encourage you to do that. I don't have that because it's like work and then I have time block. But it's with my son, basically. And as much as I love being my son, I think we all know we've got kids, you spend the time with them, but you can actually be like, exhausted at the end of the time from being with your kids and then you need the time for yourself. But then I don't get the task myself because I go back and we'll do the evening shift. But I'm pulling that back a lot this year. I've pulled that back massively from doing the evening work stuff, uh, because I just had to. It was too much. I did that for the last year and it was just not enough sleep basically as well, because you do that in the evening and then you're still getting up the next day at 6, 6:30, because I've got a dog going to walk the dog and got to do breakfast and son, he's up anyway. The beautiful things about kids is that you don't need an alarm clock. My son came in on me. It was Sunday morning this weekend. I was lying in bed, My wife had got up and she'd actually gone out and walked the dog. So for whatever reason, she'd woken up a bit early, she'd gone out and walked the dog. I didn't even know that because I'm still asleep, right? And then my son came to walk, was walking into the room, just bangs on the bed, goes, dad, it's nine minutes past seven. Do you want to get up? I was like, what? I like, not really. If I wanted to get up, I would have got up. I was actually asleep. But thanks, because now I'm Not. But that's kids, right? They just, just. Yeah, I want your attention because mom's not here. I need someone to play with me. And you'd have the same thing, right? You just got one son when you've just got the one child. They want your attention all the time.

Speaker B: And they get all the attention because they don't have a sibling. But this Friday was probably the worst night we've ever experienced, especially for my wife.

Speaker A: Guess what?

Speaker B: We went to, uh, sorry, it was Sat. Saturday. We went to Friends in the evening just for. Just to catch up. Eating some food, everything good. And then he just goes and just vomited like a lot on a wooden floor at our friend's place. Back. Went to the toilet for him to warm it a little bit more. There's a lot of stuff. So he'd be like, uh, ah, he must be empty now. He was pale and quiet. Okay, he's thrown up. He's put him in a car and drive home. Driving 30 minute drive, 10 minutes into it. Projectile vomit in the car. Across the whole back, back of the backs of the front seat. A lot of it. I don't know, like where they come from. And it's just like a, uh, Bermuda Triangle of vomit. It's a little body. Where is it coming from? So, okay, so we went home, cleaned it, put it in the bed. No food, just a little bit of water because. Right. And then he goes. And he wakes up around 11pm it's the first time he wakes up. Can I drink some water? He's calling my wife. So he's in his room. Mom, um, mom, um, can I get some water? So she wakes up, gives him a sip of water, goes back to back. He falls asleep. Thirty minutes later, just when you've gotten back into proper sleep, he wakes you up again. And I think she told him something that he might feel better in the morning or something. And because he felt bad and thirsty and he wanted the night to be over, he just kept saying all night, every 30 minutes he would wake up and say, is it morning yet? So you're sleeping, you just start and snooze. And then you hear him, is it morning yet? Then my wife would wake up, like, no, go to sleep. And then another 30 minute. And that literally happened all the way through the whole night. We were wrecked. That was the worst night. You think like when you have little babies, right, that you have to wake up a lot. That was worse.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was. Every 30 minutes.

Speaker B: Yeah, he's good now. He's good now, but it Was like such a random thing.

Speaker A: Yeah, the joys of it. I remember having a vomit in the car is one of the worst things ever. Because that's so hard to get out. Because it goes in all the different places. Because I remember my son did that once. It was ages ago and we'd been away for a weekend and our car had actually broken down and I'd had to get that towed away. And we had some friends in the area where we lived and they were away for the, for the weekend. They actually weren't around there. And we said, look, is there any way we could borrow your car? Because we're still down here. We need to get around. And it was a bank holiday weekend so we couldn't hire a car and borrowed their car. And then we were driving wherever we were going. And my son was pretty small at the time when he was in the back seat and he goes, dad, I'm frightened. And I was upset. Voices. I'm frightened. And I just turn around. I was like, what's that? What are you frightened for? And he obviously used the wrong word. He didn't mean frightened. He meant something else. Because then he just went in the back of my friend's car. So we're trying to clean out someone else's car. It's just horrendous. But that's the joys of children.

Speaker B: Tell you what the upside of my story is. I needed to clean the car and give it a proper cleanup because I need to take photos of it because I'm going to list it soon. So I was like, uh, I'm glad that happened before I cleaned the car because I spent a whole Sunday afternoon inside out. When car wash.

Speaker A: It's not.

Speaker B: It's like it's quickly clean now.

Speaker A: I hope you got that smell out of it, Mike, because uh, that lingers.

Speaker B: No, that's all good. Yeah, it's all. Yeah, scrub it up.

Speaker A: Good stuff, man. What are you working on at the moment? You've got the podcast that's going well and uh, we're actually a sponsor of your podcast because I think it's awesome.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: Anyone check out High Level Experience podcast with it? Interviews a bunch of interesting high level agencies, people that got software, products, training, cool, uh, stories as well. Very high level, obviously high level focus because it's the high level experience. So definitely go check out the High Level Experience podcast. What are you working on in your business? You've got some specific snapshots that help agencies. We've got all, uh, it seems like the topic of Discussion for everyone, everyone to talk about is AI at the moment. Are you working on any stuff with AI or what's the focus for you in your agency to, to separate yourself from the pack? How are you standing out from the pack?

Speaker B: AI? I've been using AI for years. There was Jarvis and all those things, but really now it's just, it's going mental, right? There's so much happening. So throughout last year I was just on the sidelines, just watching it and implementing some basics, chatbot, voice, AI. But now I'm definitely getting into a

Speaker A: lot more of it. So

Speaker B: you asked me what I'm doing, right? So I've got a couple of projects. One of the projects that I've got currently on the back burner because I got stuck on it, but I was trying to build my own content creation engine, but directly all built within High Level and utilizing the API so that the generation of the content, the videos, the thumbnails and repurposing would all be automated. But then the distribution of it I wanted to have automated as well. Right. Because right now it's pretty easy to generate stuff but you still have to go and publish the article or publish the social post. So I'm trying to connect the dots of the uh, 2.0 API that high level has that's on the 497 plan. For those of you guys listening, um, you get access to the API 2.0 and then you can actually link it through pep hooks from your workflow into it and it's all happening within your account. Right. But like the idea of is I want it to end, to end create the article and everything. So that's one project and I'm always trying to think about leverage. So I am a little bit spread out in terms of like I've got my agency and that's targeting small to medium sized business owners here in Australia, especially locally, Canberra. And then whatever I build for my customers or for myself, I've always been a fan of making things evergreen, agnostic and reusable. So as like minimum amount of customization being directly baked in say emails or landing pages instead everything driven through custom values. Because then, and it's not just thinking of I'm gonna, I wanna do it because then I can sell it. It's also I wanna do it because gives me flexibility. If I change my brand name or change my colors or the variables change, I'll just change it in custom values. But yeah, so that's always been building for my own agency and then obviously leverage cash flow Money and demand, like looking at where the money is at. Like we talked about it yesterday, like where's the money? Where's the market? And that's why you've got MicR M. I'm assuming there's a demand. I see with high level agencies the same thing. It's. There's a demand for turnkey options because not everybody wants to spend the time development. So I think Snapshot is. Makes perfect sense for me and selling it to other agencies who you could look at it like maybe, maybe they are competitors but I don't really think about it that way because the market is big enough. So it's actually been a really good source of revenue over the years. I've been doing it actually really good source of revenue at uh, one of the ease. But yeah, lately right now I'm working on a 2.0 version of my referral marketing system. When I built it back three years ago, a High Level didn't have the affiliate portal so I built my own thing around it within ghl and now it has. Okay, I've got to rework it and then implement some AI into it for personalization when it comes to emails going out and things like that. So there's always something. There's always something. Yeah, I got a bunch of projects and it's a bit of a juggling, juggling act, but we'll get there.

Speaker A: What do you think about for people that are coming in and seeing High Level? Because you've been using High Level for five years.

Speaker B: Five, six years.

Speaker A: Yeah, five, six years. All right, so you're pretty OG with High Level. You've got a good idea of, I say all the features. There's many features. I don't know all the features. Right, but you get it. Right. Uh, but people coming in, they see High Level. It's like this massive Swiss army knife of stuff, right. It does incredible things, but it's overwhelming. So uh, what about people that are coming in and want to start? What do you think? Where should they pick up?

Speaker B: Look, I think if you're a regular business, not an agency, I wouldn't recommend going directly signing up for High Level unless you're technically savvy. This is very natural to you. You've already done zapier and different things and built stuff for your own business. But if you haven't, definitely go through an agency that has good support systems in place. There's I know Sara with Techmatics, Jared from Boulder Digital, just to name a few, or my agency. We've built our SaaS product on top of high level, the mechanisms to support those customers, to make it easy for them and have somebody in their corner. High level can't do that for you. You know what I mean? So that's, that would be my recommendation. If you're like a business now, if you're an agency, um, yeah, if you're an agency, then it'd be start with one thing. And my advice is advice of what I'm hearing from others that it works for. Uh, I'm not doing it that way, by the way. And I'm the worst example of that because I'm like so perfectionist. I got. I'm the example of trying to make it perfect and go out and market. That's kind of me. It's not bad, it's not good. Now the strategies that do work that time and time again, everybody I've interviewed pick a niche, pick one feature, uh, frame the pitch around it, around the results. It's the quickest and easiest. And because of that you don't have to learn the whole thing either. Right. Just go out with the simple thing. Reputation management. I know those things work. So I think that would be my tip. Yeah. And then scale from there from 97 to 2, 97 to 4, 97. And then after that you're naturally going to realize those clients that you've got on for that one little thing. It's like peeling the onion. So there's going to be additional layers, additional things that they will need implement. And that's where you then start to go down the rabbit hole of implementing and upselling them for fulfilling setup of new things. Uh, but at that point you already have them as a customer, so it's a lot easier because cash flow is already coming in.

Speaker A: What about partnering with other agencies? Like I see a lot of people working in partnerships now as well. They find their niche in high level. So maybe they've got uh, either a niche in a business area or a feature niche that they do. And then if someone wants something else, they just go, no, look, we don't do that. And then we can get someone else to do that so they can put the ads off to someone else or wherever it might be.

Speaker B: Perfect example.

Speaker A: Stay focused.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I'd say not just partnering with agencies. So actually, so this is my acquisition, acquisition channel. It's been like that for the last five years. I have never really done any ads for my SaaS business. I haven't really done any cold outreach, email, nothing. It's always been referral partners. So one Referral partner is not an agency owner, is actually a business coach made of mine. But nevertheless he's a business coach who runs two martial art gyms here in Canberra very well. So he's good credibility and he's got stable business. So guess what? He wants to make more money. What's the easiest thing to do? Leverage on that. So he's been positioned himself as a martial arts business coach. So now he has other martial art club owners go to him for his program and we have a snapshot inside our sub account. So he gets them sign up for coaching with him and then part of the program he automatically trans sends them my way to sign up for a trial. We've got a bit of a deal. They get extended trial. He pays for the portion of the trial. So they don't pay anything until 90 days later. But from the get go they already put their credit card. So then they get charged. And yeah, so it's been working very well because he doesn't have to have all the headaches of trying to support SaaS. He just focuses on his coaching program and helping them get more members to their club. And then because they're sign up on stand up from the park, we look after all the technical support and all that. So then his client gets coaching from him, support from us. Feels like a team. And I don't have to do any acquisition. I've got him on an affiliate. So he does make commission from that way. But at the beginning I make money because he pays me. I think that's a good strategy. And you could apply this, this was just an example, but you could apply it to anybody else. Like somebody has, I'm talking to right now is really good at doing copywriting, building email sequences for businesses. I think he's using AI too. You'd have to, right?

Speaker A: You'd have to leverage using AI for copywriting. Now there's something wrong.

Speaker B: But say if I get a customer that signs up with us and even we've got our uh, snapshots, the profit roadmap modules and they get those. But if the customer says, look, I want the emails to be a little bit more on point about business or something very bespoke, I don't have time to do that. And it's also really hard to delegate that because it's like a copywriting skill. And so again, he's looking after the same type of audience as I do. We're not in competition. When I spoke to him, he was thinking about launching his own SaaS, his own agency. But Then I said to him, let me show what I've built mate, because there's a lot of work involved. You might as well send them my way and I'll just pay you commission. And we can also have a bit of a flywheel. So if I get a customer, I can then include your offering as part of the onboarding or as part of the educational follow up sequence of my customers. Then they buy a package of, let's say a lead nurture sequence, 6 months old, I add a little markup. He makes the money, I make money. Or it could be the other way around. He brings on a customer, they pay him for the fulfillment but he brings them into assas. I pay him commission. So I'm a big fan of that because it's a leverage and you just got to look at business coaches. Uh, the one I haven't cracked yet, which I would love to is accountants. I'd love to get a really good relationship with accountants. For some reason they are not as responsive to it. It's just like a general industry thing. I don't know what it is but I'll keep going at it because there's nobody better. Think about it, right? If you've got an accountant, and that's ideally accountancy firm that's a little bit forensic as well in their approach and strategic in how they work with their clients and helping them make more profit, grow their business with the numbers. They know everything what's happening in their business. And so when you're trying to improve business, it could be marketing, could be. So they, if they've got a, if they've got a good amount of knowledge or at least some basic knowledge about sales and marketing as an accountant that just becomes so natural to then just send them my way or create that opportunity. Hey, can I run a web workshop or webinar for free for your accounting clients and just talk about this bit? That bit.

Speaker A: Have you tried going to an accountant and just doing it for them?

Speaker B: But not yet. But I've heard I've had a firm asking me to do their newsletter and then it cried out because I didn't follow up fast enough. But that's on me. But yeah, I think strategic partnerships is brilliant because. And then obviously your customers. But that's more. I look at customers is more of an affiliate program. Slightly different approach.

Speaker A: Yeah. And the customers will refer you after the fact anyway, that's where like when you've got a business built to a certain degree like referrals become a huge source of leads. But you have to build to a certain degree, first of all. And then you've got to supplement those with ads and all kinds of other things. But I don't know too many business is that once they get to a certain age there's almost, I say almost. This is always the case. Right. But almost always there's just a lead source of referrals that come through because people know you in the market, people talk about you. You've been around for long enough that there's customer bases that just come through. So when they want to grow and scale that they need to optimize the leads that uh, are coming in or get more leads or there's plenty of things to do around that where people realize that, okay, we're at a certain stage, like you mentioned your friend who's running the martial arts business. Like you're at a certain level, you go, okay, there's stuff that I need to do to go beyond that level and that's when you need to get in actually automate and optimize all these things as well. So definitely partnerships, definitely a really good way to go. So accountants and stuff. But I think that's a really good thing in the high level community as well. Because like we talk, we're in the Australian community. I know you're leaving Australia, uh, but part of the Australian community. I talk to a lot of SAS dads and a lot of people that are in the US or well, mostly in the us some in the UK as well. But uh, we have a really good Australian high level community here. And I think that part of that really helps. Just even in terms of it might not even be partnerships or referrals, but we have such a nice, good, solid

Speaker B: community that just been genuinely wanting to help everybody. It's been awesome.

Speaker A: Behind the scenes people don't see this, but there's a great Facebook group, but there's little DM chats that go on. People, oh, hey, I couldn't do this. Could someone help me? I've got a client that needs abc. How would I do that? Oh yeah, the way I've done it is this before. And I think it's, there's, there is a real good, there's a huge good feel around our uh, community in Australia and generally as well. I'm not saying it's not elsewhere, but like we're really in it in the Australian community. And I'm part of many other little groups as well. Like ones have sprung up off of events and stuff like that. People are just really genuine through the high Level community. You've taken a lot of advantage of that. I don't mean taking advantage of the community, but found advantage from the community the way that it's helped because I know you've been to Dallas and like meeting people there. I think actually your first time you went to the High Level event in Dallas was when you came up with the idea around the podcast for High Level experience. And originally you partnered with someone, correct?

Speaker B: Yeah, that was 2023 actually.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah, that was in Hilton in the city. That was my first ever trip to us as well. And I met with Andrew Kite who now works for High Level. He is looking after the knowledge base I think still maybe. But back then he was running business called CHQ which got bought out by extend. But yeah, we just got along and we were drinking some bees. As you do, uh, at these events. As you do, having fun, network and all that. And then we just talk about what podcast we like to listen. I've been a big fan of listening to Joe Rogan podcast. Oh yeah, that's my favorite podcast too. I don't know what the segue was, but basically an idea came up. I think it was me or him, I can't remember who brought it up, but an idea of podcasts for High Level, but like a conversational, very laser fair, casual, having a chat but around High Level with high Levelers, stuff that's relevant, providing value. And that's what happened there. So we kicked it off very quickly right after I got back, put together a plan and then the first episode went out in January and uh, yeah, it's been great. It's been. Sometimes I miss having a co host. I must admit it's been really cool having another person with me to bounce ideas and then having a guest as well. Uh, yeah, he's no longer part of it. Unfortunately he couldn't because yeah, just terms

Speaker A: of employment with High Level ties to High Level. Yeah, in terms of employment there. Yeah. But yeah, that's definitely a huge part of the High Level community. And doing that and then figuring out where your path is and if you don't know where your path is as well. We get people that come on. We have weekly zoom catch ups as well. People just come on there because they're like, I've just started, I'm not too sure what to do and sit and by osmosis they can start to figure things out a little bit as well. So I think that the High Level community offers just a High Level as a whole offers this amazing platform with so many options to it. But that is a little bit overwhelming. That's a great thing about High Level, and it's a bad thing about High Level because people open it up and they just go, where do I start? With this. This suite of tools, basically. It's overwhelming.

Speaker B: And then, yeah, it's like you finally catch up and then you wake up on Monday and it's like, hey, but wait, there is more. And then there's a round table with. With Ryan and, uh, his name, the other guy. Those two fellas that do the A, uh, weekly roundup video on YouTube. If you've been watching those.

Speaker A: No, because they're on late and I always miss watching replays.

Speaker B: Not live, of course. They're on YouTube.

Speaker A: Right. But I know the ones you mean, and I'm subscribed to it for notifications for some reason. I never get the notifications when new ones come out. I don't know why, but I just

Speaker B: wake up on Monday, I just go to the YouTube channel and it's there, basically. But what's his name, man?

Speaker A: Chase.

Speaker B: Uh, Chase and Ryan. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. So it's like, there's always more every week. And like, how do you catch up? So I think going back to what you were saying, like, what would be your advice for somebody starting out even more than ever? It's. You got to work with an agency. Like, I actually sold. I, uh, had two mics, Lavalier mics, and I sold them to some lady from Marketplace. She came to pick up, pick them up, and then I asked her, like, what are you gonna need them for? And she's like, oh, yeah, we got a carpentry business, so we need to start doing some videos and.

Speaker A: Oh, cool.

Speaker B: And then I just natural. Next thing for me is like, hey, by the way, I help with trade businesses. And I just mentioned a couple of things. And then she goes, oh, is that high level? Like, yeah, it's back on. Built on the back of high level. Yeah, that's what we do. Oh, yeah, we've just signed up. We're just trying to figure it out. And I'm like, okay, so this is where things are moving, I think, as well. Right. Business is going direct to high level. Uh, which is fine, but just hoping that they're not going to get lost in it because there's so much stuff and more stuff coming.

Speaker A: But it could end up in the place. If you look at HubSpot, for example. Right. Um, HubSpot is. It's the same to CRM, but it's different. Okay. And for HubSpot, there's so many agency, I don't even know what they call them, agency partners, whatever they call them implementation partners that charge thousands of dollars to go and set up your HubSpot account in HubSpot. It's like I say, it's the same but different. But I see that's still a thing with a high level for the foreseeable future. So you can have your agency in your SaaS, but there'll be people that say hey look, I need help getting this set up. And that might be a case of hey look, we're going to charge you an implement fee. There's all kinds of stuff as well now with snapshots that you can rent them out in the marketplace, you can sell them in a marketplace, you can control them from the marketplace. So you can actually put stuff out now but have control of it. So you could, the options are endless. You could put out snapshots for people and say hey look, you can use our snapshot and they're renting it from you each month and you get recurring income off of that. So it allows you to build a model of a business around how you want to I think as well, which is good. And I think there's that flexibility and options for the future as more and more people come in. Because high level, obviously they realize that when they start out is like, hey, this is the agency platform that you can white label and sell as your own. And that model is changed a uh, lot over the last few years and there's a lot more end user customers than there are uh, agencies in the world. So they're obviously trying to get agent direct customers on board. But those direct customers need help. They absolutely need help. So you might not be putting them into your SaaS, but you can certainly help them in their SaaS. And, and you can still make recurring revenue off of that by implementation of certain things as well, which I don't think even a lot of people realize or understand yet, but they will.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's one of the things I've got on my list is to actually register as a developer on the marketplace to start offering my snapshots through that. Because until now I've just been selling them through sales pages and sending people installing. So yeah, that's, you know what, uh, my favorite feature is of high level? No, it's the ability to push an uh, account out. So I think this is such, such an awesome feature.

Speaker A: Like push an account out as in

Speaker B: migrate account out of your agency to somebody else. Agency or direct to High Level and then you just get 40% commission. Because I think. And I would think it works the other way. So if you've got small business owner that goes direct to High Level because maybe they just look at a cost per month purely and that's what they comparing against. We are definitely more expensive per month than if you go 97amonth with High Level directly. There's a reason. But huh. I like that because then if they do and they do realize that they are stuck, they should have gone under an agency. They don't have to scrap it and start fresh. They can just ex, you know, export themselves out into someone's agency.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, so it's cool. The flexibility is awesome and goes vice versa. The other way. I think Danny Clark had a really bad customer or somebody like that the other day and he was asking, hey, do you want. Anybody want to take my customer? They're pain in the ass. And then somebody else took them. So it's just this cool flexibility where you know, it's good to know that because we are resellers of High Level for just put it simply. And God forbid something was to happen, say in my own agency, I want to uh. It's good to know that I've got a way to look after my customers as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And all that stuff. And I think the way they've grown and built with feedback and things evolve. Right. And I'm sure that. I know I've spoken to Sean and Robin, we've had them on this podcast, but they didn't know where things were going to go when they started all that. Seven years ago or so. Roughly about seven years ago. I think when they launched High Level, I don't think they imagined exactly where it was going to be. And they just done all that for feedback, iterations, change things. The skateboard model as they like to call it. Let's get things out, get the MVP out. Let's see where that goes. And I think there's people that love that. There's people that don't as well. We also know there's people. And I still don't understand those people, to be honest with you. There's people that will, uh, they just like to complain and say, oh, that doesn't work and this is no good and why would you want this? Or whatever. It's like, hey, if you. I'm of the viewpoint of. For anything in life, if you don't like it, change the channel. You know what I mean? Go somewhere else, pick another Thing you don't have to use it, like it, watch it, read it. For some reason some people just like to sit there and complain about it and go, that's no good. It doesn't do whatever. But it's such a flexible system.

Speaker B: I tell you what, on that note, because I've been with Harold quite uh,

Speaker A: a while,

Speaker B: I've realized High Level is really awesome. I mean it, it's like there are these arguments. Yes, there is. Certain things get rolled out as a bit of a skateboard or certain features don't have this function but then they always catch up. So it's just a matter of time. Do you know what I mean? It's like uh, you, you can whinge and bitch about it and go to something else that has it, but then six months later High Level is going to have it and then now you've moved out and then you're going to think, maybe I should have stayed. So to me just makes sense to just have trust in the platform, in the developers that just continue to develop and improve. And this is, to me this is like a marriage. This is forever for me. Unless some, unless the leadership change and they get bought out and they go stock and it just, it's no longer good. But I wouldn't think that ever happens.

Speaker A: Yeah, and the flexibility of it anyway is if something doesn't work as you like it, you can modify stuff in there. Flexibility is incredible many of ways anyways. And you don't have to do that yourself. You can just go and find this. Plenty of developers, developer partners, people that will build you an app, update something, you can customize the, you can just customize everything that you want anyway. Pretty much. It's incredible to me that people that will say bad things that have never built a uh, software anything like it, or run a company with 1200 plus employees, maybe even more now. I don't know. I always find that it's very interesting but for the people that get it, like, it's incredible. And I think one of the things that I really like about High Level, just putting the software itself aside, is the people that run it. You mentioned there, if the leadership changed the way that the leadership run it across Sean, Robin and Varun, I believe fully that they genuinely are doing the 100% best that they can. And that doesn't mean that's what this is for all of us in life, right? We're never going to get everything right and you're never going to make everybody happy. But you can only do the very best that you can and listen to people take feedback on, honestly evaluate it, implement what you can. You have to discard what you possibly can't or put it aside to go, hey, we can catch up with that later. Whatever it is, you have to juggle priorities. And when you've got a company of that size with um, that many staff, that many clients support. I think they went over 100,000 uh, users, active users. Just recently I think I did see a post about that. I know before that it was in Dallas, it was 83,000 users. I think that's correct number, 83,000 users they announced in Dallas. And just recently I saw something, they've just gone over a hundred thousand users and that's agency users. So sub accounts underneath that. I'm not even sure how many there is.

Speaker B: I think we're in the millions now.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's a huge behemoth to take on, manage and handle. And the way that they do that in honesty and just being approachable the way that the management team are, uh, and then the team as a whole anyway, they've got some amazing stuff in there, like really cool people. That's a company that you want to be with. That's a uh, that's something that you want to back and be.

Speaker B: They're over a billion dollar valuation at this point. And the other day I'm looking at some of the posts from Varun inside the GHL community official group and he's posting about stuff that he's been working on until 2am do you know what I mean? It's like the dedication.

Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. They are doing the, they are doing the best job that they can basically and that's all that you can ask of anyone at the end of the day and support them through there. So I think it's uh, yeah, amazing platform, amazing team behind it, amazing community and uh, just people should use it at the end of the day and just find their little niche, find their bit and work through that and problem solve. Because all business owning is problem solving anyway.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: Um, we've got problems every single day. There's not a day that goes by. Life is problem solving really every day is problem solving. But business is definitely problem solving every day. So that's what you got to be prepared for. M ready for and be flexible to it. Just work around things and wait. Yeah, that's my two cents on that. Yeah.

Speaker B: And understand what the ins and outs. To me it's like a toolbox and I just want to be really good at using those tools and Just commit. That's why I wouldn't shift. I've seen some people now the vibe coding is becoming very trendy. Some people vibe coding their CRM or claiming they can vibe code. What high level does good anyway?

Speaker A: They vibe at high level. I was like, yeah, no you didn't.

Speaker B: Even if you did some extent of it, I would never want to be like how could you sleep at night selling something that's been vibe coded and you know there is no developing team behind it to support it if shit hits the fan. Yeah, yeah, that goes uh, beyond me.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's quite amazing. People can claim they five coded high level. Yeah. Good to see it. Love to see it. So Matt, what's on the next six weeks for you anyway? You're in your, you're in your rundown to a big move, A uh, complete life change like house packing, shifting everything over to.

Speaker B: Yeah, so we got about six weeks we uh, were going to go for to check out a place we haven't never been. We thought maybe go to New Zealand for a week or. Because the Easter is about to kick in now if the fuel prices and how everything is uncertain. We're like, let's just, let's better not fly anywhere because don't want to get stuck somewhere because kerosene fuel runs out. Who knows right. So don't want to let that. So we're just going to stick around Canberra and uh, just continue selling stuff. I've uh, got to list the car and that sort of stuff. I'm going to figure out maybe probably get some stuff shipped out in boxes because it's not going to fit all in luggages. It's a fun exercise though. It's like the minimalist lifestyle.

Speaker A: It's.

Speaker B: It's freeing when you can get rid of some of that stuff because you realize, hang on a minute, we've been holding on this stuff I sold. What did I sell? A bunch of books, fitness books that I bought way back. The books are the hardest to sell. Right. Sounds like five bucks a pop, ten bucks a pop. And they were like really good books that I paid 100 bucks back then. And I was like really into fitness as a personal trainer and I had them and I had them listed in the marketplace for three weeks. Zero bytes. And then I had this guy, he came by because he wanted. I get these gymnastic rings, these nice wooden rings. So he wanted to buy those. So he came by and I started to show him some stuff in the garage and he's like, what else have you Got. So I started showing him some of the other fitness equipment that I've got and then I said, hey, I've got some books. I don't know if you're into books, but. And then he's. And then guess what I sold, uh, I was like eight books or something. 200 or 300. Sorry. I was going to list them for 90 and I sold them for 300. So it's just interesting where you find it. Yeah, brilliant. Yeah. So six weeks, it's just doing that, just selling more stuff, getting rid of stuff, organizing other things. I gotta send out all the lost credit card, send me a new one of all the banks because I want to have an extended expiry date on all my cards. Right. Because once we're in check, it's going to be tricky. They don't send it.

Speaker A: So a little.

Speaker B: There's some logistics things. And the other thing I need to do is move my personal phone number from a carrier over into a dedicated sub account in GHL so I can continue get SMS without having to worry about roaming and all that crap. So all those I've got, I've got a list of what I need to do because what will no longer work with me when I move from here is things like that. The phone number that I've had for years and just parking and doing a fireball party with some friends and having a couple more goes, having a good Barbie here and maybe go to the coast one more time camping, just whatever we can and running the business and launching some of these campaigns that I'm working on and it's fun.

Speaker A: No, it will be. I'm sure it'll be a very busy last few weeks. And when are you going to actually tell your son that he's moving? Like when he.

Speaker B: After Easter.

Speaker A: Uh, so you give him, what's that, three weeks notice then?

Speaker B: Yeah, something like that. And then the other thing I want to do is we got the meetup coming up, the high levels, organizing those meetups now. So there's one in Gold coast, one in Sydney at the beginning of May. So I'd like to. Yeah, I've got a bunch of points in my contest frequent flyer. So I think just gonna use those and fly up and meet some of you guys and have a last final hangout before we move because after that I think I'm just gonna start to build relationships with uk. However, let's then because of the distance,

Speaker A: mate, we know you'll always be welcome back in the zooms, mate. Always.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, thank you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I appreciate it and I know I'd hope I don't get kicked out because it's been fun. I will miss those. All those sessions that are like 1am SOR 1pm here because that's not going to be possible for me. I'll be. What is it, 2am or something. But there's always a level up as always other opportunities.

Speaker A: There's a level up. We'll see you there. We'll see you around mate. We'll definitely see you around the places. But mate, where can everybody find you? You got stand out from the pack. Stand up from pack.com.

Speaker B: yeah. Standout from the pack.com au is my SaaS agency if you want to just kind of check out what I've got or explore I've got. So one thing I did wanted to uh, provide to your listeners. I've got a gift.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And I'll drop you a link as well but if you go to vitmuller.com There is a button in the menu. Is it cool if I share screen?

Speaker A: Yeah, sure, go for it. This will be on podcast or video so yeah, go for it man.

Speaker B: Yeah, so I just want to show you so vitnilla.com it's just again it's just a website I built to position my products, my snapshots to other agencies. You're welcome to explore those obviously but here free resources. I figured a couple of little things. I've got a lot more but these three things that I've listed on this page that you might find valuable. This uh, product website content is uh basically an HTML code that you put on the back of a page in the website or funnel editor. And what it makes, what it does is see if I wanted to highlight this text and copy the text or grab this image I can't because it's protected with the code. So you can get the free code on this and use it if you're really savvy. There's a way to go around it like you could go into the inspect. Inspect the page and you could get to that stuff if you wanted to but it makes it very difficult. So that's what I like it. And I actually do install all my clients website as well because I want to protect their copy. So that's a good little gift there. Uh SAS rebuilding calculator is something I built because I wanted to know how much will say a $10 credit inside a sub account be how much that gives you like how many SMS could you do? How many calls can you do? How Many AI actions. So it tells you that I've got it for Europe for a bunch of different countries. Uh, the main one. So you can use it and it's a spreadsheet and it helps you calculate across all the different things that can be rebuilt inside High level. So it's a spreadsheet and then you just create a copy of it and you can use it. So it's pretty useful. And then the last one is Deep links generator. So this is when. And let me see if I can find it. Uh, deep links here, Deep links generated. So this is what it looks like on the back end. So it's another Google spreadsheet. Uh, what I figured is, you know when you're trying to help those local business owners and you want to let them know that something happened inside their sub account, but then you might write it in the email like, hey, so and so has came through me a Facebook ad. So go to the login. But I wanted to have a direct link. So if they click on a link in the email, it takes them directly to the contact or uh, any other area. If I've got an onboarding sequence and I've got a email that talks about a media library, like educating customer, because it's about adoption, I can have an email that highlights the benefits of using media library, all that. And then direct link. So that's what the direct link. So I've done all the work, we're figuring out all the URL links and all you got to do is just grab this. You just need to set up one custom value, which is this one here. Custom value for your app login, whatever the white label domain is for logging in to your version of High Level. That's the only value you've got to set up. And then everything else just gets populated. The location ID key is automatically injected when it runs from your workflows. And then the end result is customers have one click to get to where they need to as opposed to trying to figure out where do they need to go.

Speaker A: Yeah, I use deep links all the time for contacts, mate. That's one I just use all the time. Say, hey, Contacts is building a form or whatever it might be. Go here to check it out. And that's the thing. So that's bitmiller.com resources. Yeah, we'll put the link to that. So thank you for that. There's an awesome three, three free, cool tools for people, man. So good luck with your next few weeks, mate your travels. You're packing the house, telling your son I hope that it's, uh, a is a smooth transition for all of you back over to Checkmate and that you can figure out a new life balance over there with all these different time zones. Mate, we'll have to maybe revisit you in. Maybe in season three, we'll revisit you and see how you're going.

Speaker B: Yeah, we'd love that. That would be fun. Yeah.

Speaker A: All right. Awesome, mate. Thank you so much for your time.

Speaker B: Thank you, Gary, it's been great.