Neel Dhingra - Social media and mortgage, how to land BIG collabs, and financial freedom.

Speaker A: Hey everyone, Austin Schneider here. Welcome to Rise Podcast where we talk about real influence, self development and entrepreneurship. What's up, everyone? Welcome to another episode of Rise Podcast. Super stoked today because we got Neil Dhingra, uh, in the house, in the flesh. Neil is a real estate investor, market enthusiast, mortgage banker, crushes it on content. If you're not following Neil on Instagram, do yourself a favor and check him out. What's up, Neil?

Speaker B: Thanks for having me, man.

Speaker A: Stoked to be on.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's like, uh, we've been connected through social for I think a couple years, maybe a year, 18 months or so. And uh, we got to meet at an event for the first time and it's like the same thing you always talk about. Like you just, yeah, you're just already friends. Like, it's super comfortable. I always say it's like, uh, I always feel super comfortable if I could just sit with someone and not talk and not feel awkward. So like yesterday we're driving and I'm doing something. You're thinking about something like you can just be quiet and not feel weird.

Speaker A: There's no obligation to, uh.

Speaker B: Yeah, like, if you have something to say, say. If not, you're. We're just cool. Yeah, that's what I like.

Speaker A: Well, welcome up, man. You are up here. You're going to give a killer event at Caliber Hormones Kirkland about video, about content. Maybe give the listeners or viewers, if they've never heard of you, just a quick little background on who you are.

Speaker B: So I am, uh, actually a content creator first. Like digital creator first. And I say that because I in the mortgage business, I'm m in the real estate business. But like, without attention, my business would have flatlined if not declined. So, um, that's a lot of things I talk about now is like, you could be the best lender, you could be the best realtor or whatever, but if you don't have attention first, like, uh, you know, you're missing a huge opportunity right now. So that's uh, my primary goal every day is to, you know, market myself, market my team, market my brand. And then after that we provide amazing client experience, we provide great service, we do all these great things on the mortgage side. But, um, my, my main goal is to build, you know, the brand and uh, help my teammates do the same thing.

Speaker A: Yeah, and you've been in the business for 15 years and when you say that you leverage attention. I mean you're, you're, you've been in the business for 15 years and just recently you quadrupled your income. Just like from content, you're accrediting it mostly from content.

Speaker B: So like 20, you know, coming up into 2018, I was just kind of flatlined, burnt out. Uh, those of us in the real estate mortgage industry, there was a little bit of a lull in 2015, 2018, the, uh, market slowed down because interest rates were high. And, um, I was just contemplating, like, dude, this, I'm kind of burnt out on this. Um, I'm tired of chasing clients. I was doing a lot of outbound, like, buying leads and reaching out, you know, to people, uh, Internet leads, stuff like that. And it just got to be a grind because the people weren't valuing me. It was just, I was just another vendor. Yeah, just super transactional, right? So I was like, I feel like I'm running on a treadmill. Second I stop, my business stops. And you just get tired of that. After a decade or more of doing that, you're like, fuck, man, this is tough. So what I decided, I was just watching content scrolling Instagram and I was just the guy who always consumed, never even had a, like, didn't even really have an account. Like, was just on there just looking at other people's stuff. And, uh, came across guys like Gary Vee and you know, other entrepreneurs who are putting out content and really pushing. Like, dude, you have to do this. And then I don't know what it was, like one or somebody, one of the posts just clicked. You know, you hear the same things over and over and then one time it catches you. Right place, right time, it's like one in the morning and you're just like, dude, I'm gonna do this. Like, I'm gonna start. You know what's different about me? So I just started putting out videos. Horrible, like, cringe worthy. Um, hired a videographer who I still work with today. Uh, and we just started doing videos. And then slowly it got better. Like there's no secret really, other than we just kept trying to improve. But in that first year from 2018 to 2019, I got a 4x increase in my business. And that was a flat, in a flat market, like, market really hadn't taken off. 2019-2020 doubled it, more than doubled it again. So if I look at the trajectory of like income of like, you know, netting around 300 something thousand in 2018 and then in 2020 netting just under $3 million, like that's a 10x increase in two years. And then 2021 is looking even better. So, um, the reason why I say that is not to flex. Uh, because I know people. There's people in the mortgage industry making double what I make. I mean, people are crushing it right now. But the point is to say to the guy who's six figures right now, there's a path to seven figures. And it's by thinking about growth, exponential growth, not just linear growth. You know, trying to get your next client. No, let's try and get our next ten or next hundred clients.

Speaker A: So when you say content creation and like posting, like, people would hear that and be like, okay, like, let me just post a bunch of like, random stuff. Let me just, like, like what? Let me just do what I'm doing all day. Let me dance in front of the camera. What is the content that actually converts into real life business? Because there's so many skeptics out there right now who are like, oh, the, like, uh, I just need to post video and I'll get business. And then I post for a month or so and then nothing happens. Like, what's the. What are the. What is practically, what kind of content have you seen work really well in your business from actually getting business done?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah. I think this is probably one of the reasons why people quit doing this is because they start, they don't get any traction, so then they quit. Like, why would you want to keep doing it? It's not working. So what I found was I, uh, was starting to get a little bit of traction with informational videos, but then stuck. So I noticed the game has changed a little bit in the last year where you have to be really intentional. So we used to do videos like this long form content, uh, chop it up and then put it into short form content. That is still a great strategy, but it's less effective today than it was before. So for social media, you have to speak directly to the viewer. So, like, I'm gonna tell you something today.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: And I'm gonna show you behind the scenes of my stories. And I'm gonna do long form content on YouTube and Facebook. But like, the point is, with the short form content on social media, like Instagram primarily, it doesn't work unless you have a good hook, unless you're starting and you're like actually going to provide value to the viewer. And what I found is, like, the algorithm has just gotten tougher. So maybe that means the algorithm's actually gotten better because there's so many users, so many ads, so much noise coming at us. So it's just like I used to say a couple years ago, just get on do video, like, that's not enough anymore. We have to do the right kind of video. We have to do intentional video. Like, we need to, like, think about what would be most valuable to your target audience and then put up, you know, list those topics. And then also, how can we make those topics better? Like, I recently started using Twitter. I was never a Twitter user. And Twitter, like, you have no video. You only have your words, and you only have a limited amount of words. So I would write something and it would be. It would just bomb. Like, no, no, no, love. Like, Twitter's a kind of crazy platform. You can post and get 0 likes. Like, at least on IG, you'll get like, your sister. Or, like, you get like, somebody likes your shit. Twitter, you get literally nothing. And so it's like, how do you get traction on Twitter? You have to become a good copywriter. So it kind of taught me how to write in a short form. Like, get to the point quickly, take out all the fluff, write a good starting line, and then that's how I started to get more traction. So I think, like, um, people just need to up the game a little bit.

Speaker A: Just improve your content, put some more thought into it.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Because, I mean, yeah, like what you said even before video was so popular and video is such a big platform, it's like you could say, hey, I'm Austin with Braintegix. Today we're going to talk about da, da, da, da, da. And then like, in today's age, if you do that, I'm scrolling to the next. I saw a stat that people watch 14 TikToks in, like a minute.

Speaker B: Yeah, in one minute, people are scrolling. We went from like 30 seconds to eight seconds of attention to five. Now, I think on IG, in short form, you're in three seconds or less. I mean, on, uh, TikTok, you're in one to two seconds. So it's not like, hey, this is Neil, I'm here with Austin. We're going to Talk. That's for YouTube. That's fine, because people are there to watch long form. But for Instagram or TikTok, you would be like, uh, today we're going to tell you the top two things that are going to double your business, or the top two ways to use social to double your business next year. Like, oh, shit.

Speaker A: And if I want to double my business, that stops me from scrolling.

Speaker B: Exactly. So the whole goal is like, this is the thumb. We want to just pause enough for someone to be like, oh, shit. These guys are actually Talking to me?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, I'm gonna tell you the top ways to do this, or I'm gonna tell you the biggest mistake. I'm gonna tell you the biggest opportunity I see in the market today. Yeah, like, whoa, what's that? I'm not even in the market and I might want to save that. And I've noticed, uh, me and Eric were talking this morning. We looked at the analytics on posts. The posts that are doing them the best for us are ones that are. People are saving. So it's like, they watch it and they're like, that's valuable enough for me to, like, put in my pocket. Now, they may never come back to it, but the whole thing was like, they actually went in, hit save, and they're like, that is something I'm going to share or save for the future.

Speaker A: No doubt. I think from a consumer perspective, if I have a business, I'm listening to this or I'm watching this, it's like, that will start to attract and magnetize the clients to you. If you're talking about finance tips, refinancing, mortgage content creation, uh, you're going to start attracting people that are interested in that. And you're going to build a tribe, you're going to build an online community, and you're going to build business from it, because they're going to see you as the trusted resource, you as it. So less of the. The fluffy content, more of the stop you in the tracks, talk to your target audience. And that's how you're gonna magnetize people.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, like, people would make these slick montages and, like, cool things. Like, these are cool. I like making those videos. But the thing is, like, for the viewer, they don't care anymore. So, like, there's a lot of stuff where people used to just flex. We were talking about this last night. Like, there's a guy we know who's a billionaire.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And he's trying to build an audience because he didn't have one. And just saying, I'm a billionaire and I have a Rolls Royce, like, follow me. Like, that doesn't matter anymore. The viewer is like, okay, keep going. Like, people have just become numb. You can't shock anybody. I mean, think about what we just went through with, like, Pandemic. There's literally, like, people dying. There's just, you know, news. I mean, I call it, like, panic porn. Almost. Like, the news is, like, trying to panic you every day. So as a result, you become numb to, like, all the shit coming at you. So to stand out there's really no other way of, like, what's in this for me? Uh, and then as you build an audience, then when you do those kind of, like, pieces where, uh, you talk about the story personally or, like, inspiring content, like, the audience connects with it because they've been following you along. You have that relationship. So you can do more types of content as you build. But if you're in build mode and you're starting at like 500 follows and you want to get. Actually get results, you have to be super intentional.

Speaker A: So what's an example of, like, a hook? Like what? So if I'm listening to this, I'm watching this, and, okay, I'm going to start to do videos, and I know that I need to do a hook. What are some examples of a hook? And then what follows?

Speaker B: Like, so we think of, like, a hook, and the hook is kind of like a problem or some issue, and then the solution is going to be the rest of the video. Um, so if we, like, what's a topic we could think of? Um, you know, we just did it. Like, how do you really use social to double your business? Right. We need to speak to one viewer.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And we need to be intentional with the content. So we would say, like, um, you know, today I'm gonna give you the. Or you wouldn't even say, today. Like, I always start and then I dumb it down. So I would say these are the top two ways to use social media in 2022 to double your business. Number one, you need to speak to one viewer. And then I would start that, right. And just go straight into it. They already see your name, they already see your stuff. And then you'll find that that video gets traction. And then you can do little things. Like, I did a test recently where I just posted an informational video. Uh, I forgot to put the music on it in the background. Just pick an instrumental song and play it in the background. So a month later, I was like, that video, I think, would have done better. And that video got like 40,000 views. I posted the exact same video with music in the background. Did over 200,000 views just by playing music. So there's little things that keep people's attention. You know what I mean? Like, even the way the reels are edited, like, you know, it's just me talking to the camera. But they might zoom in and zoom out, and those little subtle things keep a viewer's attention. So first step is like, write better content. Get a good hook. That's the beginning part. Next step would be like, let's think of ways to enhance the video cuts, music, things like that.

Speaker A: For sure. So good. So what do you think is stopping most people from doing content? Because I mean it's so apparent. Like success leaves clues. And if the clue is video marketing, content creation being intentional, why isn't everybody doing it?

Speaker B: Well, the market's just amazing for many industries right now, so there's no consequence to not doing it. So um, like you're in real estate, your mortgage, you're in finance, insurance. We've just had a 10 year kind of bull run. Everyone's a genius in a bull market. Like we're making money. As long as you're in the right space, you're doing well. You just don't know what you're missing. Like we talked about this the other day. People don't call you and say, dude, I went with somebody else. It just happens. But you have so much business that you're like, I don't really notice or care. As we head into like a more flat market, I don't think markets are going to collapse or anything. But as we head into just a normal market with a lot of noise, you'll need to do this. And then you'll, you know, at that point it's kind of difficult. So I think you should, as a business leader or someone trying to be relevant, like you would want to pivot before that happens. So that's one way. Another reason why people don't do it is they. We did a survey of 200 people and they said that they cannot think of engaging content topics. So the solution for that is literally just listing out all of these problems, going to Google trends, going to answer the public, look at what people are searching about your industry or your, your topics and then take those kind of pillar topics and make them into engaging. Yeah, like we talked about, uh, at my event the other day there was a um, guy in the mortgage industry and his, one of the topics he selected was should I get a 30 year or a 15 year mortgage? And I'm thinking like this is debt. Like if I came on camera and like, hey, this is Neil. Today we're going to talk about the difference between a 15 year and a 30 year mortgage. It's going to be like dead, like nobody cares. There's going to be, Keep scrolling. So how can we make this dirt boring topic engaging? So here's what I did. I was like, I'm just thinking, I'm like, do you want to hear some horrible advice? Dave Ramsey says you should Only buy a property using a 15 year mortgage. Uh, the 15 year mortgage has almost, you know, 40% higher repayment compared to a 30 year mortgage. This would actually exclude you from buying a property in many cases. Uh, so for most people the best thing is going to be to get a standard 30 year fixed mortgage. This is perfectly acceptable. And the majority of people got into homeownership or whatever. Like you can dumb that down, but basically it's like the hook is, do you want to hear some horrible advice?

Speaker A: Ah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Like what's uh, up? You know, rather than 30 or 15 years, pros and cons. Like, so we just have to make. You can take boring content. A lot of people's complaint is my industry is boring. Uh, but it doesn't have to be boring. Let's just make it more engaging. Because the topics are important. Just we need to present them in the right way.

Speaker A: Yeah, get present, write a bunch of questions down and then figure out how to make it actually engaging versus like, here's why you should buy a house.

Speaker B: Yeah. And if you're funny, maybe you can make jokes. I'm not like a comedian guy. I'm not a performer. So then what I do is try and make it more intellectually appealing. So then I'll think of a better way to write it. But I mean, some people make funny shit. I mean anything where you could attach emotion. We just saw uh, Jim Kwik speak and he said content is more memorable if it's tied to emotion. So if we can kind of like get some kind of emotion going, you're gonna remember it.

Speaker A: So how are you backtracking content to business? Is it people are like, wow, I'm watching your videos. Is it like, hey, I've been following you for six months. Hey, you're like DMing people. Or like what does, what is the actual.

Speaker B: So the way it works for me is, um, yes, people DM you eventually just direct like, yo, been watching your videos. Can you help me with the X? That's awesome. And you could track that because that's a direct result. It's usually not the result of one video. It's uh, usually accumulation. Uh, so that's one way. Another way is, um, if you're in a business where you could have business partners refer you business, you just get more referrals. Like, I've been watching your stuff, I'm gonna refer you. So that's a direct correlation. Uh, another way is you want to meet with people who could potentially refer you. How you connect with them is social so, for example, if I wanted to connect with you, it'd be hard for me to just cold call you. You would think of me as a salesperson. But if we've seen each other's content or you see my content and then I DM you, it's gonna be almost like a lukewarm conversation. So you can leverage content. I think a lot of people forget that, like, this is the way to get the meeting. Putting out the content was so that people feel comfortable with you, but you still need to get the meetings. Uh, so now I just have to reach out to more people. It's gonna be way easier. People are gonna say yes almost every time if you have good content because they vet you first, they're like, oh, this guy's legit. Yes, I would love to meet with you. Let's grab coffee. This isn't going to be weird. Uh, like a lot of times I don't want to meet with someone because I'm like, is this going to be a waste of my time or is the guy going to or girl going to be weird? And then I'm going to be in an awkward situation. So you take away both of those by just having a strong digital footprint.

Speaker A: I think that's a big miss on a lot of people is they're not like they're posting, they're just kind of letting it, like, happen. But they're not using it to source potential business partners, to social sell, to engage with people, to fire, emoji people's stories to warm them up, to actually set them up for a meeting for, for a piece of business. It's like, that's what I'm doing a, um, majority of my time. It's just like, traditionally how people are going to email you. Cold email, cold call. It's like, do the same thing on Instagram where people are spending three hours a day engaged.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's hard. Like, they're there and that you time and app is going up. People are just spending more time. So if I message you that, uh, we could offer your company or we could offer you something cool, like let's talk about it and you come to my page and I don't have anything there I haven't posted or even if it's public and last post was a year ago. Like, it's, uh, it's a, it's a weird profile pic. Like, uh, your digital handshake is weak. It's terrible. You're just gonna be like, uh, I don't know. I don't know who's but conversely, you come to my page, it clearly shows who I am, it shows what I do, it shows how I help people. And there's a bunch of content and you don't have to have a huge amount of followers, you don't have to have a ton of views. But, like, there's valuable content there. It's on point, it's on your brand. People can quickly vet you. So what I found is I'm shocked today that someone comes to Your page within 1 minute and 30 seconds, they have vetted you.

Speaker A: Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker B: Done. Like, it would have taken me months to do what I could do in a minute. So when people are like, I don't have time. Did this saves you a massive amount of time. Like, it's huge. Like, it's. If you could just vet me in a minute, why wouldn't you know? So I think the problem is people start reaching out without having this first. So you want to do this first then don't forget to leverage it.

Speaker A: Yeah, no doubt. Actually reach out to people. Actually social, social style.

Speaker B: Like just leverage it. And then actually in your emails, people always put the icons to social media. No, like drive them to it with a specific call to action. Connect with me on Instagram here. Don't just put the icon because the icon is. It's become glossed over now. It's in everybody's signature. They don't even know that you can click on it many times. So I'm putting that in every single email. Connect with me on Instagram, check out my series on YouTube, check out my stuff here. Let's connect on LinkedIn. So now people are like vetting you 50% of the time because I use, uh, my CRM to send the emails out 50% of the time people are going to look at this like, who is this guy? Uh, what's he about? And then you get on the call and it's like the best feeling when someone's like, dude, I watch your stuff. Awesome. You know, you won for sure. They're not considering 12 people anymore. They're with you.

Speaker A: Yeah, no doubt. So one thing with you, Neil, is that I feel like you are a master networker and I feel like you've really been able to leverage social in order to network with people. I mean, interviewing with Gary Vee, getting in circles with like Bradley Alberts like you, you seem to be everywhere. What are some tips for listeners of yours have actually get in the same room with these people and to start be on like a text basis with some of These high level people that you can grow from.

Speaker B: So I think it's, um, seeing opportunities, capturing them quickly, and then leveraging them to get more opportunities. So for example, with the Gary Vee thing, every once in a while Gary Vee is promoting a product. Uh, in the beginning when I used to bomb, he used to have sneakers every year with K Swiss. Then he started a wine company and he started, um, now he's in NFTs, right? And you'll notice that every point he launches a product, there's a push. Like, even with book sales back in the day, there's a push for his product and he'll throw it subtly in his stories where he'll be like, yo, if you do this, you have an access point. To me, he gives access. That's one of the ways leverages brand. So at some point along the way, he was speaking at a conference and he was like, um, you know, it's gonna be in Las Vegas, gonna speak at a conference. And he's like, yo, I'm gonna be launching this wine thing. If anybody wants to buy a lot of wine, like bulk order, I'll barter with you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I was like, oh, shit, I want to buy wine. And then I could, if you're gonna be at this conference, I could try and get a podcast with you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I emailed the team, I was like, yo, um, I want to buy like $5,000 worth of wine. Would love to, um, get a quick podcast with Gary.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And the team responds, they're like, minimum request would be $50,000. And Gary Vee's time is valued at over 100k an hour for keynotes. Like, so we can't just do this for 5K, like, we're sorry, you know, peace out. And I was like, oh, you know, so I replied to that email and I was like, yeah, so sorry. You know, I was just trying to get, maybe I didn't even want a half hour, an hour. I was thinking maybe five or ten minutes, quick podcast. He's already going to be there, so there's no friction. Um, and I, you know, I guess the most I'd be willing to do is like 10k. But you know, thanks for the opportunity. And I added on the cc line garynermedia.com and then on a Sunday, like I think it was like one in the weird hour, like super late or super early, I can't remember. I get a response from Gary.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: And it's one line. I'm in for 15 minutes.

Speaker A: Dang.

Speaker B: That's all it said then was it 15 minutes? No. So when we sat down to do the podcast, he talked to us for over an hour because he always. That's just, he's just a good dude. So now I've gotten this opportunity, right? How to get the opportunity? A little bit of luck. But actually asking. Yeah, uh, for sure, I don't. I think it was the right place, right time, but, you know, if you don't ask, you don't get. So just ask. Do it in the right way. But if there's something in it for them, obviously, because you're buying. And someone might say, well, $10,000 for a few minutes of Gary Vee, that's a waste of money. No way, dude. Like, I got value from the meeting and then the leverage is the next part, right? So now I want to get the next guy. Hey, I just did a podcast with Gary Vee. Would you like, you know, like, I would love to interview you. Recent guests include Gary Vaynerchuk. Like, leverage the shit out of it, you know, micro content. Get the leverage that you can. But the point also is, like one meeting with him, I was like, this is going to blow up. I'm going to get huge followers. It's going to be amazing. But back to our earlier point. Audience doesn't care. What's in it for me? So you get a bunch of hearts and a bunch of high fives and it's dead in 24 hours. Like, maybe even less. Like, all that build up this huge thing that you think is going to blow your brand up, and the next day you're back to zero. So how you leverage it on an ongoing basis is more important, not just like, you know, if I got an interview with something super crazy, like, nobody will care. After a few minutes, they're on to the next thing. So, um, what we do next is, like, leverage that to get more people. Now opportunities, uh, will come up with, like, Bradley or, um, uh, you know, Billie Jean. I've worked with Tom Ferry, all these guys, and it was just like trying to get in front of them, you know, leaving genuine comments on their content so they see your name over and over, tagging them in a post or tagging them, making something about them for sure. Creating a piece of content for them and sending it to them. Right. You know, like just trying to speak at different events. For example, there was this huge event I got to speak at where, you know, same thing. Like, I bought a few tickets, the most expensive tickets, uh, also gave some credibility. Connected and then asked if I could Speak, you know, and here's the value that I provide. And then now they see you have a track record, like, yeah, sure, we'll give you an opportunity, you know, and you're. You're not just, like, asking. You're like, you're. You're buying their product, and that's how you get their attention. With a lot of these guys.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think the two things is, like, it's either going to cost you money to get in these circles, or it's going to cost you adding a lot of value. And you did the thing with Gary Vee where you, like, provided value with interviewing him, whatever, and then also buying something that you cared about and then investing the money. It's like, that's like. That's like. That's what we do with the podcast, too. It's like, can I. How do I provide value to you from a podcast perspective? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: Like, you're no audience. You're just starting. How can I provide value to this influencer? Well, you could buy their shit. Yeah, that's one way to get their attention. The next thing is you could be a good person and, like, connect with all their, you know, people that know them. So it's not just about them, it's about people who know them. So, for example, right now, there's a conference going on in Vegas that I would love to speak at, because I know it'd be amazing to connect with all the people there.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: So I just got to speak at 1. I have this track record of knowing A, B, and C. The guy who's putting on this event knows all these people. I don't know him. Uh, so I've just found his email somehow, and you can find people's emails. And I'm emailing him and being like, yo, would love to bring my team to your event. We're all gonna buy tickets. I'll buy them in bulk. Um, I want to support your event next. I would love to speak for, like, 10, 15 minutes. Here's the topic, and here's how it would help the audience, because I'm just where they were recently, and it's kind of like, this is. I'm like, a good, good example for what you can do quickly, because the guys on stage are super far away from where their viewers at. So this could be like a link, and the feedback's been great. Here's an event I recently spoke at. Here's a picture with me with this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy. Like, so, you know, I'm not weird. So I'm trying to get this dude's attention. He may not read that email. So my next step is find out the dude's office. Not creepy, but, like, find out where is ink. Send a gift to the office with the same thing I just said in, like, paper form. Mean, like, yo, I'm, uh, trying to get your attention. I sent this to your email. Not sure if you saw it, but here's what I'm trying to do. Send it. I mean, you could think of any ways to get attention.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, takes work, creativity.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, like, just. You're literally just asking, but you're asking in a unique way. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker A: With. With being around these people, um, kind of pivoting to, like, success and, like, because these people are pretty. Like those, like, Billie Jean and, like, the Bradleys and whatever. Gary Vee's what, like, based off of interviewing them and seeing them, what are you discerning that makes them so different than maybe myself or Jimmy or even yourself?

Speaker B: Um, the best, biggest thing is, uh, they understand how to scale. Right. So they have teams of people that help them ramp up whatever they're doing. So when I met Gary, dude, He's got, like, 15 people on his content just for his personal brand, just for Airy Vee. That's not even VaynerMedia. Like, that's just team. They call it Team Gary. Uh, that's a cartoonist. There's a copywriter, There's a, you know, a guy for Snapchat, there's a guy for this, there's a guy for Twitter. Like, all these things, and it's him doing a lot of it, but it's like, people can amplify it with, you need help. Um, so there's that. The other thing I noticed with a lot of these guys is, like, they do a lot of unscalable things. So, like, you would think they're trying to scale. They don't have time for shit. Like, they do things, they'll spend time, but they're just selective on who they spend time with. So, you know, Gary doing a podcast with an unknown dude for 10k, like, that's not the best use of his time. But then I'm out there promoting the shit out of it. Uh, that, you know, the goodwill that he builds from that. Like, other people want to follow him because they see that there's an opportunity for him to talk to everyday people. So that's cool. Like, it just kind of all works together. There's just. They just really understand how to think bigger. Like, Leverage people the right way. And then like now you start thinking like, oh, the goals I had, these are nothing. Like the ceiling just gets blown and you're like, dude, I need to think way bigger because here's what's possible. Other thing I noticed with a lot of these people that I meet is they're no different than you or me. And sometimes you'll meet people and you're like, dude, this guy's. I'm more organized than this people. Like this guy right here, his business is kind of weird and he's still super successful and. Or I met a dude who has a hugely successful business and almost felt like he wasn't very bright when I met him. Like he was kind of dumb. I was like, oh shit. So it's not about iq, it's about just doing. And like there are people who are dumber than you or me that are doing way better than us because they just had the courage to do and not be scared about like, is this gonna work? Is this. They really just, I think there's just uh, their relationship with risk is different than the average person. Yeah, they don't care about risk.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's infectious.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Would you credit that to some of your like growth mindedness and kind of like going on to the next step?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think like you just start to not care about failing. That was probably a big takeaway. Is like, let's try this. It's going to cost this. It's going to take this much time. What if it doesn't work? Well, fuck, we'll move on to something else. We got all these balls in the air. Some of, some of them are going to work, some we're going to drop a few.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think so many people see the, the successes of people, but they don't necessarily see the failures. But I think about like big companies, even like a Google take those, like those glasses that they had a while ago, that's a failure. Like they've launched so many, uh, horrible products. But they only, but the people are only like, oh, they're so successful because they do all this ads and blah, blah. Even people, it's like, oh, they're so successful overnight, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, no, they're constantly failing to get to uh, one thing.

Speaker B: I mean, how many things have you tried in your agency that have failed?

Speaker A: So many.

Speaker B: But like that was your tuition. That's how you learn. You know what I mean? So people, they think that that's risky. Uh, the risk is doing nothing for sure. Like, uh, the risk is just being scared of all that. And then you're stuck for a decade or more. And then you're like. Then you have regret. Like, oh, I should have taken those chances. Like, it's not even that risky. Like, to me, uh, maybe I'm getting a little bit too aggressive with risk. But now it's like, what happens if all everything fails and I lost all my money? Yeah, well, you figured out a way to make more money. Like, you could pivot. What if you're interested, went to shit, you could try something else. Like, the risk is people have, like, way less resources than you or me. And there's certain people that they're going to lay it all out there and get way further than you and me because they don't care about the risk.

Speaker A: I think the risk also goes down to not care what people think.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker A: It's like.

Speaker B: Or you don't want to fail in public. But you have to realize, like, we just talked about this. Nobody cares anyway. Nobody. They're not into. They're not following along to watch you or me fail. Um, you know, they just got. They got so much on their own plate. Uh, like, I don't even.

Speaker A: When you. When you. When you take a group picture and you're in it, who's the first person you look at?

Speaker B: Yourself.

Speaker A: Correct. You're not gonna look at everybody else and be like, oh, that person didn't smile or that person. It's like, same thing. It's like, why aren't you. Like, nobody cares what you're doing. Nobody cares about content specifically. If we're backtracking, like, creating content, people look for two seconds and go to the next one.

Speaker B: Exactly. So. So you have to, like, think about that in everything you do that you're not important. The viewer values themselves more than anything else. And then if you do have people that are naysayers thing, you can use that as a drive. Like, I have, like, every once in a while I get, like, a mean comment or some dude talking shit, you know, that actually drives you to do more. That's fun.

Speaker A: Cause the person that's actually writing that is extremely insecure. Like, I would never want to do business with them. Like, I would never want to hang out with them. So. So, like, why are we.

Speaker B: What does it even matter? Like, who are these people? Like, I stopped. I was spending too much time. My wife was like, why are you wasting your time responding to these, like, broke people who are just broken? Like, it doesn't even mean broke financially. Just Mentally broken. And uh, she's right. Like I'm just wasting time. So I just stopped responding. But if you ever have a piece of content that goes semi viral or viral, you will notice these people come out of the woodworks to talk shit.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because you just reached a whole new set of people. Then your core audience. Now you've reached non people who don't follow you. And whenever you do that, you're going to get some hate.

Speaker A: Yeah. Which is. But they're literally behind the phone, super insecure, have nothing going for them. Jealous. That's really what it is.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I think a lot of times I would see somebody. So for example, like if we're going out to an event and I want to do like self video, I used to be like, I'm worried. Do I look like an idiot? What's this guy think? What's this dude think? And so I wouldn't do it. I'd be like, just so self conscious. And then I realized, like, when I would see other people doing it, I was like, dude, I wish I had the courage to be that person. When I see someone go on stage and do something, like put themselves out there, I wish I was that person. So a lot of times they're not looking at you thinking like you're a dumbass. They're like in. They're like, dude, I wish I could do that. I wish I was. You know, I'm just trying to take notes mentally. So, uh, I think you just think people are just cynical. They're like, these people are looking at me as thinking a certain way. They're actually positive.

Speaker A: Yeah, no doubt. And another thing that I was thinking about is like, have you ever had a friend or somebody you've done business with, like put a hate comment on your thing or like call you douchebag or anything like that through Instagram? Probably not. Because you don't. It's not who you're doing associations with.

Speaker B: No. It's not your followers because those are your, you know, even if they don't like it.

Speaker A: But it's. But it's that one comment that just like stops people, especially on the content. Then it's like some one person will say something and then they're done.

Speaker B: Yeah. You'll have like literally hundreds and hundreds of, you know, positive things and two or three things will really fuck with you. And I'm telling you, like from personal experience, like the guy who doesn't. He's probably not even real. It's like a troll. I don't even Know what this. And I'll be thinking about that comment like for a while. So you have to just get over that.

Speaker A: Yeah. Another thing that we like is uh, your tips on finance.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And as me being like a millennial and like trying to build wealth and figure out like what to do, you've put out a really good, a lot of really good content about that. What are your thoughts on like the state of the market right now? Like what should young people be doing with their money?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think like um, we've had amazing run up in real estate. We've had amazing opportunities in the stock and equity market, crypto. So you see all these different things. You're like where should I put m my cash? And I think now after you see all that, it creates a vulnerability now where like you want this get rich quick thing because you saw pandemic created this weird opportunity where stocks cratered and then came back fast. It was V shape.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So uh, that's now vulnerability because now you want that type of return now and you can't get it right. That's second. So uh, I see a lot of people with limited amount of resources trying to find a lottery ticket, right. They're like, I'm going to find the next NFT project that's going to 100x, I'm going to find the next crypto coin that's going to 1000x. You might get lucky, but this is literally just gambling. So the best way to get a return if you are in sales is to just invest in your brand, your business because that's going to get you way bigger return. I did an example like If I spent $10,000 of media with your company, uh, or if I helped somebody with media, we could leverage that to get at least $100,000 of business in the next 12 months. I know it to be true because I've seen people in my office do it myself. I've done it and I've seen people do it. So now that's a 100x return. Uh, that's a thousand percent return. It's a 10x return, but 1000%. Where can you get that type of return anywhere else? Like it's just insane.

Speaker A: The opportunity, fulfillment of that, you know, like of actually producing yourself and investing yourself and then you've created over the course of 30 years. If you just continue to do that, like that's just gonna cost.

Speaker B: So this is an investment. So you invest in you your ability to make money. Now let's just say somebody's listening or Watching and they don't, they're not in sales, they're not watching, they're not in. Like you can start a thing on the side, whatever your skill set is, even just helping people curate information is a skill. Like start a brand, build uh, some sort of audience or following, monetize that. And that is your ticket to like getting more money. Now you've created an asset that can produce over time and grow in value, but you've also created more money. Now you can have money to invest and not be vulnerable to like one pullback and you're out, you're cleaned up or you bought, you know, you were trying to like hit a home run and you struck out and you get zero. So now those things are going to be like, for me, I love putting money into income producing real estate. Not trying to double the property value in a year, but just picking areas that are high growth that you know, rents are rising, property values are rising and the numbers make sense. So those properties I think of like the tenant is going to pay the debt for you over the time you have to come up with the money down and the numbers have to make sense. But now you have an asset that you can't like outlive that will always produce income no matter what happens. So I love real estate for the fact that like that's my retirement. Like once those properties are paid off, the income stream never ends. So you used to think like when you were younger you need X dollars to retire. We don't know because inflation is going crazy. So now I think the thing is like you need X cash flow to retire. You don't just need cash because cash keeps going down in value and you need more and more and more. It used to be like, oh, you need a million dollars. Million dollars ain't gonna cut it. So now they're telling you four, now they're telling you six. So when you get to 60 years old, you need like a ridiculous amount of money if you just want to live off the money. But let's just say you change that goal to I need $10,000 a month of cash flow.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So then I just need to acquire XXX and X, where I'm gonna get passive income of at least that forever and I can't outlive it. So then I'm not worried. Am I going to outspend my money? Like am I going to outlive and then I'll run out of cash?

Speaker A: I think where, where I stand with like the whole investing stuff. It's like you have the crypto category, you have the stocks, you have the real estate, and then you have the business and yourself. It's like the crypto people make you feel bad for not investing in crypto. It's like the stock people, not like you have the real estate people. And it's like, I'm confused. Like, what the heck?

Speaker B: Well, I noticed the people that are making the most in stocks and crypto are people who have held for long periods of time. The only way it could hold for long periods of time is you didn't need the money. So when you put $10,000 in crypto and then there's a pullback and it goes down to two, you're like, you're actually vulnerable to selling because you're like, fuck, I don't want to lose this whole thing. I'm just going to get out while I still can. And then it takes advantage of you emotionally. So as it's going up, you're like trying to get in, then it crashes. You're trying to get out. So this is why most short term traders, I think the stat is over 90% short term traders lose all their money. You do hear about the success stories. That's because nobody tells you publicly that they lost everything. So the best way to make money in stocks and crypto is just buy what you believe and hold it forever. Like long. I mean they call it like diamond hands now. Like, just hold your shit. So, uh, as I got more resources, get my real estate thing that I'm like, okay, these are the stocks I believe in for the long term. I'm going to fail statistically as a short term trader. So I just want to buy stocks and hold them, not even look at it. So I just buy them and hold them and then crypto. You know, I own Bitcoin and Ethereum and I just don't really trade it. Just leave it there and let it be and it's worked out well.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's where I get, I get guilt trip, guilt trip, guilt trip. And I get confused and spread so thin, I'm like, what do I do? And then I end up just doing a little bit.

Speaker B: Well, like let's just say you're buying bitcoin today at 60,000.

Speaker A: Yeah, 65.

Speaker B: So it's going to go to, to double that. You need it to go to 100 somewhat, that maybe that's going to happen. But like, let's just say you need a double $10,000 in your business. Like in terms of business you can easily do that. Like we did a video the other day on service businesses that are in demand right now and how anybody could start them. Like, the one example we use was like a window washing business. Like we googled it. There was not enough. There's more than enough demand because of all the growth that has happened in certain areas. Like, what does it take to start that business? It doesn't take much money to start that business and have people be able to schedule with you online and, you know, hire two or three people and just start small. And how do you get the sales? Like literally printing door hangers and canvassing an area. And now you've created a business that like makes money and that could even be a side thing to your. So I'm just thinking, like, people don't see the opportunity in sales, selling a service or a business and making money for sure and then taking that money and then investing it for the long term. You want to invest first without making the money?

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, do you think it's because of like the Instagram microwave culture, like these stock people in front of their Ferraris and the get rich crypto forex trading

Speaker B: DMs that are like, oh, for sure, yeah. It's just everywhere. Spam. And so now it's just like, yeah, there are opportunities. I know guys in my office, I catch them all the time looking at crypto because they're like, oh, I bought this coin about this coin. And I almost look at it now as just like, this is like a sports book. These guys are just gambling and one of them is going to get lucky and then the guy who gets lucky is going to tell everybody. So everyone gets hyped. And then the other guys who lose their entire account balance, they're just not going to say anything. Nobody's going to say shit about that. So you're only going to hear the winners. I'm on Twitter. You would think everybody's winning because nobody's telling you what they lost. Like, Gary Vee even said it recently with NFTs, dude, I accidentally made $50,000 on NFT. I bought an NFT and then NFTs are hot right now. I listed it for sale on OpenSea, which is the platform. I don't. I didn't know what I was doing. I forgot to set a reserve price and it just sold. And I made $50,000 of, uh, uh, Ethereum. I didn't mean to. I just did that on accident. But that's what tells you how hot the market is. Like, you could literally throw a dart and maybe Hit I spent like 1, $200 on it. So you work.

Speaker A: I don't really understand it.

Speaker B: So it's a non fungible token. It's a digital asset. It's art collectibles. Because NFTs have exploded in value, people are just buying them. Like it's like a market that's kind

Speaker A: of like a bitcoin or coin.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's just a white. It's just red hot right now. It's an asset that you asset. Yes. So and sometimes it's tied to access, sometimes it's tied to experience, sometimes it's tied to a creator. Certain projects are doing really well, other ones won't. So now there's all this fake flood of new NFT projects and you hear these guys who bought one for like 100 bucks and then it's worth $10,000 and it's like, oh, I want to get in.

Speaker A: So it's a personal NFT though. Like Austin has nft.

Speaker B: You could make, yeah, you could mint an NFT collection. Um, you could tie it to your business somehow. You could be like, yo, I'm selling brain teachic NFTs. Part of it is that you can have access to Austin and shooting content with Austin. And now if I buy that nft, I believe in you and I believe in the project. And what if I think that you're going, your value is going to rise. So I think Austin's on the come up. I know in five years he's going to be an influencer. What would the time be worth with Austin? So now I have like a ticket to you plus your project. So I'm going to hold that shit because I believe in it long term. Right.

Speaker A: So people that buy it, they have, there's some.

Speaker B: Yeah. So influencers are creating NFTs.

Speaker A: Text me.

Speaker B: Yeah, so like for example, another access of Gary Vee was like, he launched an NFT project. Let's say you want to get in front of a Gary. Part of the NFTs was you could get access to him. The one I had had, uh, three FaceTimes with him once a year for the next three years. It says five minutes. As we know he'd probably go longer, but like, that's cool. You want FaceTime with Gary Vee every year. You could, you could have bought it for, for like literally a thousand dollars just recently. Who missed that opportunity? You know, like you didn't be watching and be like, oh, here's a, here's a, here's an access point. So entrepreneurs and influencers use access Other people, it's just literally art projects and they're creating them. Um, and whatever. It's the same reason why other digital art is worth something or collectibles worth something. You believe the value is going to go up. So uh, Stat came out recently that said like 95% of these projects are going to go to 00. So you're gambling there's going to be some winners. Majority are not going to do well. Cuz there's just a FL you just

Speaker A: said yesterday that we're talking about, didn't he sell NFT for like $1.8 million?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's insane. So we had a guy who made uh, almost $2 million in four months from NFT. NFT. So he bought projects that went up and then he also did something called staking, which I don't even understand. But basically he, you know, leverages his, his um, his NFT holdings to have people trade with that money and then as a result the platform pays him money. So it's like so complicated that I didn't follow. But um, I was like, there's a lot of money being made in this space and you could get shiny object syndrome and be like, yo, I'm, I'm gonna quit, I'm gonna quit like this business and go look at this. What if that shit dies down?

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: And it will. Right now you've like taking your eye off the ball. Like, you know, I mean, so I pay attention to this stuff. But like if you don't have the real money to invest, let's focus on the first problem which is you don't have enough money coming into you the individually every month. Yeah, uh, let's fix that. And then you'll have money to properly invest for long term. You're not going to be like shook out on one pullback for sure.

Speaker A: Focus on one thing, build that up. Don't be like diversifying when same thing kind of getting back.

Speaker B: Yeah, same thing with content. Like you put out content, go narrow in the beginning. I speak to one thing. Here's why you should follow me. As you build an audience, you broaden it out. You could talk about many different things. Like it's the same concept with investing, I think.

Speaker A: All right, Neil, thanks for coming on man. Where can people find you if they want to get in your circle? Maybe we can plug the content day too.

Speaker B: Yeah, so you uh, can follow me on Instagram @NeilHome. Um, I'm on YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, whatever you want. Go uh, to NeilHome. And then also for those who are interested in kind, um, of fast tracking the content creation. Once a quarter, I bring in 10 people to my office. We call it Neil's Content Day. So Neil with two E's. Neil-contentday.com you can check it out and, um, learn more about that offering, too.

Speaker A: Do you have any NFTs that we can buy yet?

Speaker B: I don't have any NFTs, man. I should create NFTs, but I haven't gotten into them.

Speaker A: How do you create an nft?

Speaker B: I don't know. You make art and then you mint it on this platform. It's like, I need to learn more about this. But I figured if I started learning more about this, I'll abandon something else and do it. So it's like, pick my project. Uh, but we should learn for sure. We should bring an nft, uh, guy expert on this and do that.

Speaker A: That'd be a good idea because I'm pretty green, so it'd be some good questions.

Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker A: All right, bro. Thanks, man.

Speaker B: Thank you.