From Vision to Execution: What It Really Takes to Lead Customer-Centric Marketing at Scale

Speaker A: With the American Express Platinum um card, I can unlock experiences like no other. Since I'm always booking my next trip. I love that I can, um, earn points on travel. Plus I get a resy benefit. So you know, I'm hitting the restaurants everyone's talking about. And you can find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as 175,000 points. For experiences like no other, there's nothing like Platinum. Learn more@americanexpress.com Explore Platinum Terms apply.

Speaker B: No one wants to hear another vendor say our tech is great. What buyers really care about is how they are going to be successful. And that starts with customer stories, not sales pitches. Hi there, I'm Carrie Curran, B2B Revenue Growth Executive advisor, industry analyst and host of Revenue Boost, a marketing podcast. If you're still leading with product specs and hoping buyers connect the dots, this episode is your wake up call. Because the brands winning today, they make their customers the hero from day one. In this episode titled From Vision to what It Really Takes to Lead Customer Centric Marketing at Scale, I'm joined by Karel Cooper. He's the CMO at Gumgum and longtime ad tech leader. One year into his role, Carell has flipped the script on M B2B marketing, bringing in branded case studies, leveling up event strategy, and earning executive trust by thinking like a consumer brand. And here's what might surprise you. The most powerful growth lever isn't a new product or platform. It was shifting the mindset from selling tech to showcasing outcomes. Carel shares how he secured eight branded case studies in just six months by starting at the contract. Why emotional connection beats feature dumping every time how customer first events, even small ones, create unforgettable brand moments. What it really takes to build relationships above the line of power Imagine being the brand that your buyers trust before the first sales call because your marketing already made them feel like a success success story. Stay tuned to the end where Carel reveals the single most important move new CMOs should make in their first 90 days. If this episode, ah, helps you reframe your go to market strategy, do me a favor. Follow the show, drop a rating and share it with a CMO or go to market leader that needs a reset. Let's build trust that drives growth. Let's go. So welcome Karel. Please, uh, introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Thanks for, thanks for having me. I'm glad to be back on the podcast again. Uh, for those of you who don't know me, my name is Karel Cooper. I am, um, CMO at Gumgum. Uh, I've been in the ad tech and martech industry for over 25 years, which I hate admitting because it just makes me sound, uh, sound old. And I've held a number of different roles and positions, uh, in the industry, uh, throughout my time, uh, at operations, account management, product marketing, and now as a chief Marketing Officer at Gumbo.

Speaker B: Excellent. Well, I don't think it's not so much old, but wise.

Speaker A: Right, There you go. I like that. I'll use that moving forward. Great.

Speaker B: So, um, talk a bit about Gumgum, uh, just for people who might not be familiar.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. So the company is 15, uh, plus years, uh, old or been around at this time. Uh, one of the few independent ad tech companies that have been around for as long as they have and haven't, uh, been acquired or merged or gone out of business. So, uh, we feel very proud that we are still around and doing well. Uh, our business is contextual advertising. We offer a contextual advertising platform, uh, to our brand and agency partners where um, we help them with digital advertising reach consumers in the moments that matter, as we like to say. Right. So everything we do is based off of the context of what someone is reading, listening to or watching and trying to connect brands with that consumer when they're in the right mindset, uh, to engage with that brand message.

Speaker B: Excellent. So it's definitely, um, a valuable channel for a lot of marketers. And so you're wrapping up your first year there as cmo. So talk about what that experience has been like.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, first, I can't believe it's been, uh, a year already. The time really has gone by super fast. But I've really enjoyed my time here as in my first year and looking forward to the next year. Um, we've done a lot from a marketing perspective over the course of the last year from, um, revamping our entire go to market, uh, process, um, figuring out brand alignment. And when I say brand alignment, when I got here because the company had made a couple of acquisitions over the past couple of years, there was some confusion in the marketplace about the branding, the naming of products. And we've all sort of aligned that under the Gum Gum umbrella, which makes it easier to tell our story and makes it easier for our customers on the brand and agency side as well as the publisher side to understand, uh, who we are and what we do.

Speaker B: Excellent. So I know, but essentially you're a B2B. Uh, your role is marketing to marketers, both brand side and selling to marketers. Brands and agencies. Um, and I know B2B marketing can be very, uh, rote and a bit boring. And so talk about kind of how you've revamped that, um, strategy and approach, um, for your team and um, for the culture of your team.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I definitely agree with you that, you know, B2B marketing can be uh, a little boring at times. Uh, what the vision and what I've brought into the team is I want us, even though we are a B2B company, like you said, I want us to think like B2C and think like a consumer brand. And what I mean by that is I think from a B2B marketing perspective, we can over index on data and performance and people's job titles, which don't get me wrong, all those things are important in marketing. But like I said, we can over index on that at times. And by over indexing on that, I think you lose what the essence of marketing and advertising is all about, which is how do you connect with a consumer on an emotional level? How do you help the consumer see themselves using their product, your products and services and being successful? And how do you create great memorable experiences for consumers? And we have to remember, even though we are marketing to folks at other businesses, they are still humans as well. And so, um, within our go to market, within our positioning and how we show up at events, we really think about and try to take a customer first approach. And how do we again show our customers or our potential customers how they can be successful with our products and services and that as well as creating great experiences for them. Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think that is so incredibly, um, smart and important these days because to your point, your buyers are people, at the end of the day, they're consumers. And I think that's something I've seen the statistics from Six Sense and other research where the buyers are doing more research and they want um, that emotional connection, they want that trust in the partner that they're bringing on board. And, and before they, you know, they're not, there's a little bit less of a risk tolerance and just trying someone new. They need that, um, to build that trust with your brand.

Speaker A: Yeah. And in my eyes, the best way to build, or one of the best ways to build that trust with the brand is to have the consumers who have had success using your products tell your story for you. Right. And so it's very important to me that when we're at events and conferences and we're on stage and it's not gum, gum preaching about how great our Technology is. It's having a customer on stage with us who authentically wants to share their story of working with us. Right. It's about, um, branded case studies, if you will. Right before I joined the company, we struggled with getting branded case studies. We sort of took a step back, revamped our strategy and our approach to brands and agencies. And so far this year, we're halfway through the year. We have eight branded case studies that we've published, which that's. That's unheard of for me and any company that I've worked for in the past be able to get eight branded case studies, you know, halfway through the year. So it's those sorts of things where, you know, we've made a switch to, you know, again, how do we make sure our customers can see themselves having success with our products? And the best. One of the best ways to do that is, is to have the customers who have already had success authentically share their success and their stories with the marketplace.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's so important because, like, I like what you said. Moving away from just talking about Gum, Gum's, um, technology or having you talk about, you know, up on stage and.

Speaker A: Because at the end of the day, by the way, like, no one cares, right? No one, no one wants. No one wants to hear another person stand up and say, say, hey, you know, my technology is great. I've got this, you know, secret sauce that does this. Yeah, uh, no one cares. Right. What they care about is how they're going to have a great experience using the product, how they're going to be successful using it. You know, if you're an agency person, you care about helping your client, which is the brand, be successful. So how do we make sure we show that if you are a brand, if you're a CMO or the person right below the cmo, making decisions on the technologies that you want to use. How do we show them and help them be successful in using the products and services that. That's what people care about, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: The outcomes, like how you've helped them get better at their job or drive better results for their clients. Um, it's. So it's so important to your point of kind of bringing those stories forward. Yeah, I know. Um, case studies are very hard to get at. So, um, I'd love to hear kind of how you've been so successful to get that data. I know my experience, like asking customer success or the account managers to get. Get that data. It's. It's everywhere. I've worked. It's always been a challenge.

Speaker A: So tell us. Yeah, it's, it. Well, I think it starts right where you just said. Right. Customer success, account managers, they have to be a great partner with marketing in going after these. And I think where we've seen success is, is having that conversation very upfront when the IO is being signed, when the paperwork's being signed, when the campaign is launching, trying to get an understanding from the customer that, hey, if we hit your goals, if we exceed your goals, would you be willing to talk about it? Right. I think where, I think where I've seen, um, in my experience, um, lack of success is at the end of the campaign, after it's run, after it's over, then trying to go back and ask for it. So I think the more you can build that relationship and partnership up front with the agency person, the brand person, whoever, the media planner, whoever is executing on that buy up, um, front to get that agreement, set that expectation and then I think it helps, uh, with that. I also think that a good part of that too is making sure you're providing the right service throughout the life of the campaign, trying to keep that connection, the lines of communication open with the buyer and staying in touch. Right. I think it's very difficult if you have a communication with them up front. When the IO is signed, there's no communication throughout the life of the campaign. The campaign ends and then you go back and say, hey, great campaign, let's have it. Like, uh, that doesn't work. So it's all about relationships, having the conversation upfront and, and building that rapport. Right. And you know, and we've had, fortunately we've been able to have some, some good success with that so far this year.

Speaker B: Yes. And it goes back to what you're saying at the beginning of being more customer centric. Right. You're building that relationship and trust in the pre sale sale sales process. Do you ever find, um, I know in my experience too often brands, um, might not be allowed to use their brand or hesitant to publicly use your brand. Do you, um, find that you ever need to give them an incentive to allow you to use the brand or, um, is it just the, that you guys are doing such a great job that you haven't had?

Speaker A: No, I, I think, I think it's, I think it's all of the above. Right. If I go back and look at the case studies that we have, I'm sure it's it's all of the above. Whether it's some is based off of A great relationship and performance. Uh, some, yes, maybe we have to give, you know, some incentive to do that, that as well too. And don't get me wrong, yeah, there, there are brands who are just going to say, yes, the campaign has performed really well. But, uh, branded case studies is not something that, that we do. Right. We still, we still come across that as well too. But we do try to get them, um, where we can. And I also think too, again, going back to being customer centric, going back to putting the customer and making them the hero of the story. Right. It's also good, it's also good personal branding for whoever at the brand or the agency executed on that campaign to have, you know, a quote, uh, in a press release or a branded case study. So we can try to lean into that as well too. Because everyone does. Yes. You want your brand, your campaign, uh, to be successful, but everyone also cares about their personal brand as well too.

Speaker B: Yes, agreed. Um, and so I know in the client centric or customer centric selling, it's also getting to the right customer. And so I know you talked a bit, um, when we were talking earlier about how you've been able to move upstream a bit or up the food chain, um, to build relationships with more senior level stakeholders. So talk about that strategy because I know that's an important but often challenging one as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The way, the way I think about it is if you're going to move up in an organization to the CEO level, to the chief investment officer level, to the CMO level, you have to bring something of strategic value. Right. Those conversations are not transactional conversations. Those are long term strategic value. Um, how do we partner together as organizations? And so for us, one of the first things there is like, okay, well what are we offering that is of strategic value? And I think there have been two products, if you will, that we've rolled out over the last year that provide that one is our um, online video product. As you know, video, um, is trending. CTV is trending. Right. And we have uh, a really great product, right. Where if you mix uh, the contextual relevance with the engagement of video and storytelling, there's, that's what we can offer. Right. And there's strategic value in that and we've seen some, some great success there. The other product is what we call, uh, our mindset graph. Right. So if we take a step back and think about over the last 15 years, the relationships that we have with tens of thousands of publishers and what we are able to see from a content consumption what's trending? Um, what do people like to read, watch and listening to? Right. What information are uh, we collecting based off of that, based off of campaign performance, creative performance and able to really take all of that information to help agencies and marketers get better at the planning, activation and post campaign, uh, reflection, uh, if you will in terms of insights. And so to be able to bring a product like the Mindset graph to market really uh, opens up the door for those higher level uh, conversations. Right. So that's one part, it's the product. But then it's also about, like I said, like the way I like to phrase it is creating opportunities for us to have those conversations with CEOs, CMOs and CIOs. And that is all about showing up and being in the places that they are. Right. So the events, the conferences, the stages that we're on and be it to be able to sort of authentically and naturally have conversations and build those relationships. And so when you put the strategic value of our products plus showing up in the right places together, that I think opens the door to be able to meet those folks and then uh, you know, have the right conversations.

Speaker B: You don't need more theory, you need what actually works. That's the energy behind GTM 2025 at Pavilion. We designed this event for the real world, for operators driving real revenue. If you Lead Marketing, Sales, CS or RevOps, GTM 2025 will show you how to align your team, optimize your funnel and scale what's already working. And yes, it's in Washington D.C. with the best minds in B2B. Go to attendgtm.com and save your seat before it sells out. Yeah, it's um, so incredibly smart. And I think too in a time where so many um, ad tech partners are trying to win on price or decisions are made on price to have that strategy where you're presenting and differentiating yourself as a strategic partner that's providing value providing, providing the data and insights to help them make smarter decisions is um, something that a lot of brands need to think about. And especially as again it's such a crowded marketplace for any brand today. So to stand out from that and be that true customer partner is so um, I love that example and I think it's something a lot of people can take away from.

Speaker A: Yeah. And listen, don't get me wrong, price is important. Right. But, but um, it's not a data point where you're going to build strategic relationships based off of. Right. Um, for me it's uh, the Strategic value and nature of your product and being in the right places.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And you still need to deliver.

Speaker A: Uh, oh yes, that goes, that goes without saying.

Speaker B: So I like what you're saying about conferences because I really see, and again going back to the whole customer centric strategy of relationships and trust building that happens in person. And I'm seeing an increase of um, brands are going back to investing and being there in person. I think there were more people in my LinkedIn feed at can than any year in a long time. And so it's, it's clearly it's working and it's getting traction but there's still some brands um, that are having a hard time convincing their uh, leadership to make that investment. But talk about again, dive in a bit more about how conferences have been so valuable for you and what have helped them be successful for you.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, well you can't replace in person, um, engagement and community like it is so important. Um, that's where you, you can build relationships, uh, and further conversations about business. Um, conferences are, conferences and events are super important to our strategy for awareness, for sales, for strategic uh, conversations. And going back to my point earlier about thinking like a consumer brand, right. And creating an experience and creating emotional, an emotional connection. The best way to do that is in person. Right? And so when we think about conferences and events that is very valuable to what we do. Um, and I kind of think of it in a couple of different ways. To me there is the big large tent poles that we're at, right? And that's where you probably make the highest level of investment in terms of your setup there, being on stage, dinners, um, all those sorts of things. Right. And for us, you know, possible and can are probably our two biggest tent poles of, of the year. Right. And then you have uh, sort of the next tier of events where um, we're not making a huge investment in those but we're sending the right people to those events. Whether those be uh, sellers or product people or marketing folks. Right. And having sort of one to one conversations. And then if you take it um, a little bit of a level down there is what I like to call the local, regional, more intimate type experiences. Right. And those are the way we think about it is those are more around like dinner, uh, series and dinner type, uh, events where you know, you can gather a room full of marketers and have a conversation about a topic that is top of mind for everyone at the table. And again it's not about, it's not about gum, gum going in and Pitching and selling our product at the, at that table. But it's about facilitating the conversation so that you're seen as a thought leader, uh, an expert in whatever that conversation is and bringing people together who now they're going to connect with each other but then they're also going to connect with Gum Gum to have further conversations. Right. And that's what I mean about creating a great experience, creating something that is memorable because that will ultimately lead to um, you know, maybe a strategic conversation business. Because that person who was at that dinner at that uh, tent pole has a memorable experience with Gum Gum. And that's what they, they know us for. Right. And so that makes it easier to eventually have the conversations about business.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it's again going back to building that trust. It's so important.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's so, it's so important. And you know, I learned that throughout my years of being in the, in the industry because once upon a time I was on the other side of it. I worked at publishers, I was responsible for ad operations, I was buying the platforms that I now market. Right. And I remember sort of thinking about who I wanted to work with at the time. And yes, it does come down to things like uh, service, uh, pricing, uh, feature sets. Right. But part of that decision making process too was who have I built a great relationship with, who have I had a good experience with, uh, engaging with on that brand as well too. Those things are so important in the decision making process. And I could tell you, you know, anyone who would come at me at that time and tried to hard sell me, uh, follow me around room to room at a conference, continuing pitching, so on and so forth, those are the people that I avoided and didn't want to uh, uh, be around. Right. And so I don't want our brand at Gum Gum to be associated with that. I want our brand at Gum Gum to be associated with great experience, um, great thought leadership, uh, being consultative, being uh, customer centric, customer first, providing a great experience. All those sorts of things lead to business and lasting relationships.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I love all of that. Um, and so, so valuable. And so as you're coming up at the end of year one, when you look back, like what are the biggest learnings or takeaways, um, that you've, they've had over the past 12 months?

Speaker A: Yeah, I, I would say so. I, I, we've done a lot in the last year. Right. And so when I, when I think about maybe learnings or things that I would have done differently or done More of, I probably would need just more time to do them. Right. Um, I think case studies would have been one uh, probably would have looked at uh, maybe a little bit sooner. But again I'm glad with where we are now, um, you know this just as well as I do. AI and every sort of aspect of business and marketing is super important and we are certainly um, uh, at the forefront of that with our products and services. But I probably would have dug in a bit more with how do we use specific tools from a marketing perspective to be more efficient, to provide more insights, those sorts of things. We're doing it now which is, which is great. But as I think back like you know, if I had more time and bandwidth, yeah I would have, I would have added that more upfront in, in sort of what we're doing. So I think those are um, some of the lessons learned. I also think it's super important that um, you have constant touch points with your consumers. Right. Especially nowadays with how fast things are moving and shifting with AI, um, uh, the marketplace unfortunately, um, uh, there's a lot of challenges, external factors that quite frankly are out of our control outside of the brand or agency or publisher control as well too. But all those things impact, speed, impact decision making and so staying close to customers is like it's always important but I think it's more important now than it ever has been in the past. Past.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. And again it goes back to like you said, it's budgets are tighter, competition is fierce.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Everything you've done to really differentiate your brand and be that trusted partner is definitely um, you know, proving successful. So for um, other marketing leaders, CMOs that are maybe starting a new role or you know, in, in the new role, like what do you recommend for like their top things they should think about getting started.

Speaker A: Yeah. Where, where I've seen people have success in new roles or joining a new company versus people who don't have success. It really comes down to spending those first few weeks and months really learning the business, um, learning how the company makes money, learning what's been successful, what's not been successful and why, learning who the players are within an organization, learning the company culture. I've seen throughout the course of my career the people that come in and really spend time doing that tend to have success and long term success. The flip side of that is if you come into an organization and you think that you're just going to take your past experience, your past success and sort of plug that into a new company and go, I've seen people who try to do that, not last long and not have success. So that, that would be my advice and recommendation.

Speaker B: I love that it's so, um, really helpful and I can see that it's every. No, it's not one size fits all or one solution. And every business really has their own culture, leadership strategies. So, um, this has been really, really a great conversation, Carol. I think you've brought a lot of really smart ideas, um, and examples that are going to be helpful to everyone. So how can um, people find you or get in touch or learn more about Gumgum?

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Um, you can check uh, me out on LinkedIn. Uh, just Karel Cooper K E R E L C O O P E R. I think I'm probably the only one, so shouldn't be hard to find me there. Uh, you can also email me too. Uh, Corel cooperumgum.com and happy to talk more about marketing. Uh, if you are a marketing marketer or an agency person, I'm happy to give you an intro to Gumgum and understand sort of maybe where you're challenged at where you know your what are your goals for the second half of the year and see how we can potentially help you achieve those goals again through contextual advertising, through our online video product, through our mindset graph as well too.

Speaker B: Excellent. Well, thank you Karel. Great to have you on again and I'm already looking forward to the next time, so thank you.

Speaker A: Yes, thanks for having me. Again,

Speaker B: Thanks again to Karel Cooper for joining us and sharing his such powerful insights. Today we explored how to make B2B marketing more human, more strategic, and more effective. From brand alignment to customer storytelling and event driven trust building. If you're looking to land more case studies, build deeper relationships with executives, or make your marketing more meaningful, this episode gave you the blueprint. Don't forget to subscribe, share and leave a review if this episode sparked ideas for your team. To learn more, visit revenuebasedmarketing.com and follow me. Kerry Curran on LinkedIn. We'll see you soon.