1279: Jeff Tonidandel and Jamie Brown, co-owners of Tonidandel-Brown Restaurant Group

Speaker A: What up Unstoppables? Quick favor to ask before we hit play on today's episode and that is please follow and subscribe to this podcast. Nearly 70% of the people that listen to the show or view it do not subscribe or follow. And you owe it to yourself to do just that. Because if you do, when we get an amazing guest on the show that gets a lot of likes, a lot of shares a lot of views, the algorithm is paying attention and it will push that episode to your feed so you'll get our best content. Not to mention it is absolutely free to you and it is the most impactful thing you can do to support this mission. Mission to inspire, empower and to transform the industry. And I can't do it alone. I need your support. Thank you in advance. Welcome to restaurant unstoppable. For 10 years and over 1, 000 episodes, I've been traveling the country chasing word of mouth leads and having in person only long form discussions with the industry's finest owners and operators. Our mission is to inspire, empower and transform the restaurant industry by bridging the gap between this generation's leaders and the next. Listen to today's guest and so many others and get one step closer to becoming unstoppable. This episode is brought to you by Restaurant Technologies, the leader in automated cooking oil management. Their total oil management solution is an end to end closed loop automated system that delivers, monitors, filters, collects and recycles your cooking oil, eliminating one of the dirtiest jobs in the kitchen. Restaurant technologies services over 45,000 customers nationwide. Automate your oil and elevate your kitchen by visiting RTI Inc.com or call 888-779-5314 to get started. This episode is made possible by US Foods. Running a successful restaurant takes more than just great food. With US Foods, you can expect more high quality products, advanced tools and flexible deliveries to grow your business. Their industry leading MO platform also does more than just place your US Foods order. It uses AI to help you take control, save time and increase profitability. Visit usfoods.com expect more to learn how to become a uh, US Foods customer one more time, that is usfoods.com/expect more restaurant owners. Are you still using ADP paychecks or indeed, 35,000 plus restaurants have already switched to Workstream, the all in one payroll, hiring and HR platform actually built for restaurants. 46 of the top 50 restaurant brands rely on Workstream to hire faster, stay compliant and run payroll in minutes across all their locations. Visit Workstream US/Unstoppable for three months. Free payroll. That's Workstream US S./Unstoppable. With excitement, allow me to introduce to you today's guests, co owners of Tony Dandel Brown Restaurant Group, Jeff, Tony Dandel and Jamie Brown. Are you two feeling unstoppable today?

Speaker B: We're feeling unstoppable for sure.

Speaker C: For sure. Every day.

Speaker A: And you truly are. You have so much going on when, uh, you landed on my radar and I started diving in, uh, five current locations, soon to be seven. Is that correct?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, soon to be seven.

Speaker C: Well, we have.

Speaker B: He's forgetting that we closed one.

Speaker C: And we're five and a half. We have five and a half. We'll be back up to six in. In no time.

Speaker A: And on top of that, you have your own podcast. How long has that been going on now?

Speaker B: Since the fall, so about six, seven months.

Speaker A: And you have your own television show with pbs.

Speaker B: Yes. It's called Fork and Hammer.

Speaker A: Going into your second season.

Speaker B: Going into our second season. We're in the middle of filming and

Speaker A: you just wrote a book. Lots going on.

Speaker C: Jamie wrote a book. Um, I'm the. With Jeff. Tony Daniel.

Speaker B: Jamie Brown. With Jeff. Tony Dandel.

Speaker C: So she wrote it. I just get to be included.

Speaker A: And I love how you started with no restaurant experience. So the mission is to inspire, empower, and transform. This is totally inspiring, um, what you've built. There's no doubt in my mind you're going to empower us with your knowledge and we're, uh, all going to be better and transform as a result. But before we dive into who you are and how we got to where we are today, let's get that motivational inspirational ball rolling with a success quote or mantra. What do you got for us?

Speaker C: I think we have. We have two things that we kind of live by. And one is that everybody's welcome. So that means that every customer is welcome, but also every employee is welcome at our places. So that's a big part of what we do. And then the second is we operate with a servant's heart, so we care about every single person that walks in and, um, want them to have a great experience.

Speaker A: Awesome. Jamie, do you want to add on to that? Do you want to throw us your.

Speaker C: I took two. Sorry.

Speaker B: I know. It's like, wow, you just stole the whole show. Um, yeah, I think that's exactly what it is. I think when you're coming from the heart and you're being warm with others and it's not just about your guests, so much of it's about your. Your teammates. You know, these are people who have become like family over the years and just taking care of one another. Um, you know, and hopefully all of us are working towards the same thing.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And there's so. I think it's weird. I think we think of hospitality, we think of restaurants and hotels, but hospitality, I think, is at the core of what it means to be human. I think we don't realize how important this behavior. It's a behavior. Right. That is, like, literally a part of our DNA as a species. Because we're tribal. We need each other. How do you attract people to you? You're nice to them, you see them, you value them.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker A: And the law of reciprocity, like, it comes back, you're away.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: But I think we just don't even. We haven't even begun to realize how significant hospitality is to our existence.

Speaker C: It totally is. It's a core of everything we do and, um. Core of the restaurant business. And we're trying to market Charlotte as that is at our core. I love that in the town of Charlotte that hospitality is what we are about.

Speaker B: Yeah. Charlotte is the city of hospitality. How about that?

Speaker C: It is. It is out there.

Speaker A: I think hospitality might be like singularity. Do you ever geek out on that language? Do you know what I mean by, like, the single Tell us more? No, no. It's the one thing that connects us all. It's like the one thing. It's. It's at the core of, like, what it is, like life, you know? Um, maybe that's a little bit.

Speaker B: I remember it long before we got into the restaurant business. Um, I remember, you know, the two of us, we were just dating. He used to do things that were so much, um. I'll say. I'll say. Driven towards hospitality, or he was, like, trying to express himself in hospitality. Yes. And also, like, curating, like, so curating experiences for us to do together. And, um.

Speaker A: Such a romantic dude.

Speaker B: Such a romantic dude. Yeah. Now it's 20 years later, after we got married. Yeah.

Speaker A: Well, I'm sure he keeps up.

Speaker B: He keeps up with the romance. But I think, like, it is, like, you're saying, at the heart of, you know, probably everybody, but. But to varying degrees. And I think that's really what drove him specifically into the hospitality business, is because it's such a core of everything he is.

Speaker C: People in our industry, you know, they start talking about hospitality as it's. It's a core of the restaurant business and. And from a business, but really, it's what, like, Lights us up inside and gives everybody energy and, and it is like what's fulfilling. So that's, that's more to. Yeah. Like. Yes. Is it good to have that as a, you know, operating thing for your business? If you're in the restaurant business? Yes. But is it better for just your like, well, being one life?

Speaker A: Uh, the science that's coming out to support this right now is fascinating.

Speaker B: Oh, what is it?

Speaker A: Just basically that like there's evidence that supports when you are, when you intake in or partake in hospitality and that's a two way street. It's the host and guests experience that your body just gets rushed with all the good, the good stuff, all the chemicals you need, your mental health. It literally can be the answer to a lot of our issues. Just leaning more into this world, this idea of hospitality and seeing like, look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Um, the hospitality industry can literally touch on all those needs. Uh, but, but specifically the third most important after like your most like physical needs, like the sense of security thereafter, but then being seen in and feeling like you're a part of something. Right. That's you're growing, you can grow in the hospitality industry and you can find your purpose in the hospitality industry. So I just think that it literally touches in all of our needs.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Under one umbrella.

Speaker B: Yes. Taking care of each other and also feeling taken care of.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's good.

Speaker C: And we get to add on to that that we're feeding people too. Yeah, it's. We have that three, but we're also, we're also coming back down the chain.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And feeding people.

Speaker A: So that's the physiological. Right. And then the second one is like uh, you know, warmth, security. Like I think that kind of falls under the physiological food, warmth, like uh, like a roof over your head. Um, and then the other one, just beyond that it's like, I think it's more Social Security of like I feel safe in this space. Like I'm not. There's no threat. Right. And then beyond that it's like being seen and valued by the group. So like I think that all like those base things all happen and then obviously growing, self actualizing, it's all there too.

Speaker C: So I think, I think we're nailing a lot of the things that we're feeding people and then you know, the uh, everyone's welcome so you're safe here. 100 in hospitality and um. Yeah. So yeah.

Speaker B: But as we're saying it's not just the guests. It's making sure that the People who are working with you feel that sense as well, you know, when they're here, that they're feeling taken care of when they're working or um, you know, going out for their shift, that they feel like they're in a safe, warm place and that, and that they can grow, you know, fertile ground for them to grow.

Speaker A: I love it. We gotta share your story. Uh, we gotta get into it who you are and how you got to where you are today. But before we dive into that story, um, just list all of your restaurants. Right now you have five and a half going on seven. So just without getting in any detail, she's.

Speaker C: I think she's quizzing me to see if I can.

Speaker A: I haven't listed here. I can help you if, you know,

Speaker B: hopefully he can remember.

Speaker C: I just need. I think, I think I got it. So, um, La Louis Hall 1 Supperland 2 Everandelo 3 Growlers Poorhouse 4 Haberdish 5 Olivelli Deli. And is that the half is, is. So we had raining donuts, um, and it's just a walk up window with some picnic tables outside. And we are in the process, uh, closing that down. We just closed it down a few weeks ago and we're opening up a cool little walk up deli in its spot. So we're excited about that. It's been a fun project.

Speaker A: Can't wait to get into it. Anything else? You have the one project in the

Speaker C: works and then why it's superfine is, uh, next to Le Luia Hall. So that's in our former parking lot where we moved a building 750ft down the street. And um, working on that. And then we're working on a commissary in the south end as well. So that'll be seven, uh, and eight in 2027.

Speaker A: Got it. And then you also have the media arm of your business, so.

Speaker C: Yeah. Then we also get to do our show Fork and Hammer, which we're filming season two right now, which is really fun. Um, Jamie's book, as we mentioned, 11 tables that kind of tells our origin story and a lot of, uh, things for any business getting started just as some good tidbits in there. And then our podcast, Jeff and Jamie Feedback.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: And am I forgetting anything else?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Are you monetizing the podcast today or is that uh, just for fun for now with hopes to build?

Speaker B: Not yet, but yes, we hope to be able to build it. Uh, we do have one sponsor who's helped us get off the ground and all that, so just kind of beginning that.

Speaker A: Beautiful.

Speaker C: Just. Yeah, just beginning. We're only, we're on our 12th or 13th, um, episode, so we're kind of, we're kind of beginning. But we keep touching. Um, we keep getting ranked for food podcast, so that's the, that's.

Speaker B: We're trying to catch up with you.

Speaker C: I love, I love seeing us pop in the, in the rankings and we've been as high as 55 for food podcast. So we, we want to, you know, keep doing that.

Speaker A: Yeah, keep showing up. Um, and I'm so glad to see that there are more and more restaurant business podcasts out there. Food podcasts out there. When I started this thing, it was like me and two other people and it was just like we need to start sharing information, you know, for the industry to move forward. And uh, so much has come out into what you're doing is great. Um, I do like to kind of get an idea understanding of a business model. So you have multiple different types of concepts. But it seems like the core of what you do is full service, elevated experiential dining, but not necessarily fine.

Speaker B: Yes, we kind of, we kind of play in this world where uh, our surface points and our offering, we like to think about it as fine dining, but we like to have an atmosphere and an environment that feels a little bit more approachable. So what you'll find is, you know, we do all wagyu and prime steaks, for instance. Um, we bring in um, oysters just right over here on the east coast. We bring in uh, super high end seafoods and so forth.

Speaker C: Many times we're the number one purchaser of Marshall Burke Farms Caviar.

Speaker B: Caviar.

Speaker C: But still.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So bringing in those high end touches, uh, food wise, but then at the table, when you're actually going through the service, you won't find white tablecloths, you won't find white gloves, you'll find people serving you in an apron and a white shirt. And you will find an. Speaking specifically of Supperland. Um, you know, we'll have all the touch points though of silverware switch outs and plate switch outs and, and all that to give people that elevated experience. But in a place where frankly, sometimes we'll have um, people here in a full suit and a gown and then next to them is somebody wearing a printed T shirt. And we like that, that approachable feel. We started it in this business in a neighborhood uh, that was, you know, very artistic and very, uh, grounded and down to earth. And I think that very much fits our personalities where we Want people to have those fine things, but we also want, uh, people to feel relaxed and like they can really savor and enjoy and not have any pretense.

Speaker C: I love when our servers roll up and, you know, sometimes in the middle of the summer and it's hot out there, wearing an apron, a white T shirt and jeans, and it's perfectly acceptable to our dress code. And they have a full sleeve of tattoos and they walk up to a table that has just ordered, you know, $1,000 worth of food and they're getting asked about the wine list. And that's when I say, you don't have a tux in white gloves to hide behind. What you have to hide behind is, you know, your stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And you can, you can start talking about what wine they want and what wine they, you know, is going to go best with their meal and what? Well, left bank, right bank, and, you know, know what you're talking about.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. Uh, so can you give us an idea? And I don't think I gave you a heads up before the conversation that I like to get into the numbers. So hopefully you don't mind. Yeah, so. So 300 employees spread across five and a half locations currently. Um, and what is your average per seat volume? Like, what is your average size? Like, this is a big operation.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's pretty big operation. Yeah. Like 3, 330 people. Um, it's so it's funny, I was listening to another one of your podcasts and, and um, you know, the guy was saying, well, these are the restaurants that do really well. And we do everything backwards. You know, we don't have a concept that's the same. We serve different things in, you know, every single place. We have, we have complicated menus. Um, we prep everything homemade except for the ketchup. So we're making our own bread now. We're doing, um, and that's one of the things, like as we're doing this deli, we're trying to make our own bread for this program in a very small restaurant. Um, so we have, you know, all these challenges. So it's interesting our, you know, our fried chicken and cocktail concept, haberdish is in this, um, you know, in the mid forty dollar range per person. Our two steakhouses, Steak and Surf and Steakhouse, are, you know, hovering around 100 depending on the day of the week. Um, and then, you know, growlers is much more in the 20s and 30s, um, which is our craft beer place. So we have this like, huge variance and, you know, up to a few dollars when we had the, the donut, uh, shop.

Speaker A: And how many seats are in each one of your concepts?

Speaker C: Um, yeah, so we serve about 8,000 people a week. Okay. Um, just to give you a general number. And we're only open six days a week, so it's, you know, a good number of people a day. Between all of our concepts, um, our biggest is, um, is here. And we have about 150 seats here, plus another 50 available on the patio.

Speaker A: So 200 in all cylinders. Yeah. And where are you at with like your prime cost? There's

Speaker C: um. Prime cost is in.

Speaker A: What do you, what's the goods? Labor.

Speaker C: So, um, labor. We always shoot for 35 of labor, but we rarely get there these days. Um, that's hard. It's. That's been. Especially when everything's scratched. That's been a tough. Yeah, tough one for us. So we're in that probably, you know, nudging up to 40% a lot of, a lot of times on labor.

Speaker A: Costs of goods going up too.

Speaker C: Cost of goods are going up. Especially if you're selling stakes. We're in a good spot that I think we have a little bit of, uh, market power that we've been able to raise prices to kind of keep up with, um, you know, whatever's going on in the, in the food industry.

Speaker A: If you are the best, you can charge what you need to charge. Um, you've got to be the best.

Speaker C: We try to, um, so we're, we're running around 30% as a company. Some are, you know, maybe 1 or 2% more, some are 1 or 2% less. So we're kind of running in that, in that ballpark. One of the biggest pressures has been, um, as steak prices. I think in December they probably hit the high of where we've been and we were really fighting to keep our. We only do prime and wagyu. Got it. So, um, we were really trying to keep our ribeye under $100.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: Um, and didn't we. I just didn't want someone to come in and be like $106 ribeye. Really. Yeah.

Speaker A: Well, I mean they don't have to buy the rib. Like there's. That's a good meet.

Speaker C: I mean. Yeah, yeah. But so we, we were really, really fighting that. And the steak prices have gone down a little bit. So we, we sucked that up for yeah, a month or two and now we're, we're back in an okay spot.

Speaker A: Uh, and the steak concept that is Supperland.

Speaker C: Supperland. And then lay Louis hall, also very, um, we sell a lot of stakes there. We're steak and surf at Sufferland, so you'll see an extra. Sorry, hall. We're steak and surf, so you'll see an extra 15 to 20% more seafood sold there.

Speaker A: How many seats in La Lure?

Speaker C: Uh, it's about the same in one building. Um, not quite as big of a patio.

Speaker A: Same split. Um, with the prime costs around hovering 30 to 40.

Speaker C: Yeah. And, and so, yeah, it's interesting, I think those guys are a little more uh, 1 or 2% more efficient on um, on their food costs right now than um, than the, the team over here at Supperland. But they are 1 or 2% worse on the labor costs over there. So learn from each other. It's all averaging out and uh, look at those things. And I'm like, guys, if you could get the other guy's labor cost and you could get the other guy's food costs, like let's, that's the right, let's

Speaker A: do this, you know, like let's help each other out like where we're strong, you know.

Speaker C: Well, people, yeah, people don't, people don't realize when you miss, um, you miss your labor cost by 1% and you miss your food cost by 1%, that 2% could be 20, 30, 40% of your profit for the year. And so it, it has a, it has a huge impact on.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: On the owners and especially if you're owners like us that we're in the process of putting. Every single dollar that comes in is going out towards our commissary and our next project right now. So um, the, the team, you know, has a good understanding that like we need all of this. Yes.

Speaker A: To help if you want opportunity, like we need to create it together.

Speaker C: Yeah.

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Speaker C: Um, we shoot, we, we kind of build everything in this. Like, our theoretical model is around 12, 13%, depending on the, on the place. And then we hope to get around 10, um, percent profit. And then we're, you know, hope. It just depends on the year. But we're in the, uh, 8 to 10% range, which is better than a

Speaker A: lot of people right now. It's tough out there.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a tough out there. So we're, it's, it's by no means this, you know, incredible spot that, you know, some people talk about 20%. And I'm like, we don't even build our stuff to have 20% profit. And I always say too, as we're talking about those, like, food costs and things, I am, um, I would be happy to print our food cost on our menu every single week.

Speaker A: I think we should honestly say, like,

Speaker C: if you're complaining about the prices, I'm like, guys, like, we didn't labor. We didn't make food cost.

Speaker A: You know, the grocery store is more expensive too, isn't it? Yeah, it all affects us all. You know, I think there's a little bit of a disconnection, dissolution with the consumer. What were you going to say?

Speaker B: Well, just that, you know, I think people saw the labor cost to. People are always harping on, hey, pay people better, pay people well. And if you want us to pay people well, we have. We have to. Yeah, we need to charge what we need to charge.

Speaker A: We can go way into that as the conversation progresses. Uh, I just wanted to get a snapshot of where you are. Um, but real quick, without getting into any of the details. Um, Haberdish, how many, how many seats there?

Speaker C: Um, a little under a hundred, I would say, right in ever. Well, no, I think, I think maybe we're like 110 at Haberdish. And then ever on the lows, like 88. And then growlers. Um, you can do 50 people in there.

Speaker A: Got it. And what is ever onolo, conceptually.

Speaker C: So it's, uh, it's our Italian place.

Speaker A: Is that your best margins, perhaps, or maybe not. Uh, flour and water does really good.

Speaker C: Uh, so pasta can be a wonderful margin, but again, we make our focaccia bread in house. We make our, um, you know, we make all our pasta, ah, fresh every day. There's a lot of extra labor going on.

Speaker B: We make all our ricotta, our burrata, everything.

Speaker A: Okay, so we have an idea of who we're talking to.

Speaker C: We can.

Speaker A: We can go back to, like, get into the story. Now. I just want to make sure we leave time for the story, because you have a lot to unpackage with your. Your six going on seven locations. Uh, so where does it make sense to start sharing your story?

Speaker B: Well, we can talk about how, even why in the world we got into this crazy business. Because it was not the plan.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: That's for sure.

Speaker A: So what was the plan?

Speaker B: So. Well, Jeff and I both have our MBAs. We both went to Davidson College, kind uh, of had, like, career tracks that were very much, um, business focused. Not that what we do now is not business focused, just totally different. But, um, I started out at, um, Lance Snack Foods. I've always been in food, just in different ways. Uh, Lance Snack Foods, at the time was located on South Boulevard, just south of the city, and now it's down in Ballantine, and now it's owned by, um, it was purchased by Snyder's Lance and then purchased by Campbell's as well. So now it's a Campbell's company. But, um, they're still here in Charlotte. That's where I started my career. And Jeff started at a nascar, ah, team. So he was in charge of their sponsorship, um, for a couple of companies, including, um, Lone Star and Coors. Uh, so they were in that hospitality business, uh, you know, food and drink. And, um, that was kind of our beginnings. And, uh, after working for a handful of years, we both kind of looked at each other one day and were like, I think we're supposed to do something else, but we're not really sure what that is.

Speaker A: You got married in 2006, but you met in college?

Speaker B: Yeah, we met in college and started dating after college. Um, and just.

Speaker A: Was this after your mba?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So you went to David's, uh, uh, Davidson.

Speaker B: Yeah, Davidson College.

Speaker A: That's locally here.

Speaker B: Yes, that's right.

Speaker A: Um, then you went your own ways for your mba.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: And then you came back and that. And is that when you linked up?

Speaker B: Yes. It's a long story of. Of Jeff chasing Jamie around and Jamie finally getting tired of running Jeff.

Speaker C: That's exactly, exactly what happened.

Speaker B: And persistence. Everyone out there. That is the key. That is the key.

Speaker C: We. We kind. We kind of dated through school across the country. And then when I moved to Charlotte and, um, got a job, Jamie decided after business school to give it a try.

Speaker B: I was looking for jobs.

Speaker C: Thank you for.

Speaker B: You're welcome. I was looking for jobs in San Francisco because my Dream was to, like, work for Nike. I had always. I'd play basketball. Basketball in college. I wanted to be in Portland.

Speaker C: But that's okay.

Speaker B: Yes. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Yes, thank you. Um, but that was, like, my dream. That was where I wanted to go. But then I was like, well, if I'm gonna see if this is gonna work with this guy, I should probably, you know, move across the country and get to the same city at least and see if it'll work.

Speaker A: So, um, lo and behold, here we are.

Speaker B: And lo and behold, here we are.

Speaker C: Uh.

Speaker A: Uh, you got married in 2006. So when did you move to Charlotte? How much time elapsed during the time of just kind of figuring out who you are?

Speaker C: Um, I mean, we've pretty. You know, I came down to Davidson in 94 from Cleveland and then, um, left for, you know, two years for grad school and a year to hang out in California to be a little closer to Jamie while she was in grad school. And besides that, you know, we mostly kind of.

Speaker A: So from factored in in Charlotte 94 to 06 or. Did I hear that right?

Speaker B: Yeah, we were kind of all over the place for a little while. He was in California, I was in

Speaker C: Tucson for the most part. Ever since we both went to Davidson, we've spent, you know, three or four years outside of Charlotte, and that's about it. And we, um, let. We like this town a lot, and we've liked to kind of grow up in it. It's been.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think one of the best things about this city is, like, it always felt like it had potential. It always felt like.

Speaker C: She says about me, too.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Still waiting.

Speaker B: Still waiting. Um, but, yeah, I think we always, like, really liked this city and saw that there was something here. I think as time has gone on and I've reflected back a little bit, I think what we saw was the chance to be something in a city maybe that that was easier to be in. You know, it's hard to become somebody or stand out in New York City or Chicago or la. But Charlotte was, like, ripe for anybody to make whatever future they wanted to make. And I think it was, like, a really great place for us to begin.

Speaker A: And this is like the early 2000s. You're starting to have these feelings.

Speaker B: Yeah. So the city of Charlotte, we ended up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of the reason we moved here.

Speaker A: Where was Charlotte in that time in terms of, like, where compared to where it is today?

Speaker B: All banking, like, no diversification in terms of, um, the Types of businesses here, all banking. Um, and it went through a lot. You know, the banking crisis, 2008, 2009, that really changed the city, but also brought in some different businesses.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it was. I mean, it was devastating to the city. But I think all in all, it's been great for the city because we've diversified, we have a lot more going on, and there's a lot more careers here.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think what you just said about Charlotte can be said about so many towns across America. Um, and I think one of the things that we need to do to. To turn this country around, and maybe that's a broad statement. I'm very proud of what America is built on, but I think we've kind of. We're going in a direction that's not necessarily sustainable. Right. So. But there's so much opportunity if we just choose to spread out and to take the money into different markets and to create opportunity. And I think Charlotte was a great example of that. Twenty years ago, it was a big market, but I think it really has probably exploded, I would imagine, over the past.

Speaker C: So, um. Imagine. Imagine so for the last 15 years, we have somewhere between 100 and 100. 125 people moving here every day.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So it. And. And it's gone from a city of less than a million to now, you know, the greater. Like our market, when you include the, uh, the outskirts and Winston Salem and those things is 3 million people. It's crazy.

Speaker A: Well, that's. That's why. I mean, I just think there's so much opportunity for people if we choose to spread the money out, you know, and, um, that. But if you can get ahead of the curve, like you did go there early, like, where are the other Charlottes right now that are like, waiting for their boom Get. Bring the opportunity to go there.

Speaker B: Right. You know, I mean, I think any. The Southeast right now, we all know there's a gigantic migration happening down here. So some cities that, you know, we've enjoyed spending some time in, um, Asheville, surely, Columbia, um, Greenville.

Speaker A: Boone too. I'm excited to check out that.

Speaker C: Good.

Speaker B: That's a great example. You know, there's. There's a lot of potential there and I think for, you know, chefs and restaurateurs out there, going to a market that's not so saturated, um, even if it feels like, oh, it's not as fancy or like, I feel like I should be in a city or have that density, I think going to places that. That aren't made yet, you Know, be a part of the growth, make it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, there's so much opportunity, especially in the Midwest right now, like all those towns. Um, so anyway, so back to your story. 2006. You get married, you're committed to this thing. What's your vision for yourselves in 2006? Because two years later, you open a restaurant. Were restaurants on your radar at this point?

Speaker B: No, we, um. We both. We ended up quitting our jobs. Um, and, uh, we put all of our stuff in storage. We put on backpacks, each of us, and had a roller bag. And we went to Europe and we went for eight months. And a lot of it was. We just went to what we said find ourselves, you know, to figure out what was next because we knew something was there. And I think that's one of the biggest things that maybe people don't always listen to themselves, like, what would light them up, what would make them really happy to do in life. And while we didn't really have the answer, I think part of it is in the seeking process, in the searching of, you know, you may not know, but, you know, there's something. So just open your eyes and go a different direction and start looking around and finding that thing. And, you know, it took us even at the. Towards the end of the trip, you know, we went all over Europe, also over to Asia as well. And coming back, it was like we expected ourselves to know who we were and what we wanted to do, and we didn't. And it was so embarrassing. You know, it was like. It was.

Speaker A: So we had a purpose on this trip.

Speaker B: We were supposed to come back with the answers, and we didn't. But what was interesting, I think, was, um, on that trip, we ate at a lot of different restaurants. You know, we didn't have a kitchen. We were just eating from, you know, different restaurants and markets from throughout the world. And doing that really opened our eyes. And we started talking a lot about the idea of opening a restaurant. And wouldn't it be fun if we could do something like that? But also knowing in our heart that it's not the wise thing to do. Our parents would think we were crazy and did think we were crazy going into the business. But, um, yeah, one of the.

Speaker C: One of the cool things for me when you get married is, you know, you. You go from. You're planning your own life out, and even after you've been dating for five or six years, but as soon as you get married, it's no longer, I'm planning my own, you know, world out. It is, I'M planning our world and our now. And now it's our family. And, um, you know, it's a much, much bigger thing. So, um, I think we took some time to. To do that and try to figure that out.

Speaker A: Sometimes you step on toes in the beginning of a dance until you figure out the rhythm.

Speaker B: Oh, no, we never step on each other's toes.

Speaker A: So I'm curious. What were you feeling just before packing your bags and sitting out there? You felt lost, but, like, dive into that feeling and how each.

Speaker C: I think we felt. We. I don't think we felt lost. I think we just felt like we could do so much more, and we wanted to do more and wanted to. To be on a different path. So despite the fact that we had what on paper looked like amazing jobs that people were extremely jealous of, um, it. We knew that we wanted more and wanted to do more. And I think when we left, the economy was in this incredible spot. We're like, oh, we're. We're in our 20s. We have our MBAs. Like, I have that I had in my phone probably at the time, 10 CEOs of Fortune 500 companies that would take my call. You know, like, I could call Pete Coors back then just be like, hey, how you doing today? You know, it's like. Like, those kind of relationships from. And so we were really confident. We went away, and, you know, we're traveling around and people like, what are you gonna do when you get back? We're like, well, uh, we can do it. It's America. We can do whatever we want.

Speaker A: So what were your two titles at. At this time?

Speaker B: So I was in brand management at Lance Snack Foods. So I was a brand manager, and you were.

Speaker C: And then I was a team manager, um, doing for who? For Chip Ganassi Racing.

Speaker B: I mean, the jobs themselves. We both loved our jobs. I feel like we both really enjoyed it. But there was just something that was, like, what was nagging at us. And maybe it was the idea of building something that was our own. Uh, you know, you can. You can build every day for somebody

Speaker A: else and feel seen or valued for what you were doing.

Speaker B: Right to say maybe. But I. I mean, I truly. I loved my job. I remember I had friends who said, gosh, I wish I loved my job as much as you did. Like, I love the people there. I love.

Speaker A: Still.

Speaker B: Something was missing, but something was missing, and I don't even know what it was. And I honestly look back and I'm like, my goodness, we were. We were very brave to leave those Jobs. And I. I don't think I would have been that brave now. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker C: Yeah. Ah.

Speaker A: But somehow on your side, you know, like, when you're in your 20s, like, nothing can stop you. Like, you don't really put things into perspective. Like, I just turned 40 this year, and I'm like, uh, 20 years went by fast. In 20 years, I'm gonna be 60.

Speaker B: Yeah. Holy.

Speaker A: I gotta figure my stuff out.

Speaker B: What are we doing?

Speaker C: What are we doing?

Speaker A: Uh, so. But when you're in your 20s, we're

Speaker C: still trying to figure it out.

Speaker A: I'm not gonna die.

Speaker C: No.

Speaker B: I'm.

Speaker A: Life goes on forever.

Speaker B: But like, you. You live a life that's very much, um, adventure. Every day is different. And I think maybe that's partly what we were looking for, was that sense of adventure and doing something maybe was bigger. Autonomy, agency, self agency. That's a huge thing. And. And that your life is yours and you get to travel all around and.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, that. That feeling of it's yours.

Speaker A: Yeah, we. We need agency as badly as we need community. It's a. It's a balance. You got to figure it out. But if you don't have that freedom to go do what calls to you, you'll never be happy.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So that's what you're chasing, is that. I think so guttural, just like, gut feeling to go do what felt right.

Speaker B: Right. Yeah. And see the world. I mean, a lot of it was to see the world, too. You know, I grew up in a family. There were, um, seven of us kids growing up, and we didn't do a lot of traveling. I grew up in the outskirts of Pittsburgh, um, you know, blue collar town. Loved, you know, loved where I grew up and everything. But you, too, didn't do a ton of traveling. And that was also that, that time. But, um, I think I really wanted to see the world. I wanted to experience it.

Speaker A: And it's so important to get perspective, I think. So if you never leave America, you get this, like, rendition or this. This rendition of reality that's just not accurate, you know, and seeing how other people live, seeing what other people value, uh, you know, Europe, especially in the food, the way those restaurants are run and the experience, and in a. A neighborhood wine bar in Italy, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think, like, to me, one of the things that was most noticeable was, um, the slowing down of time. Like, you could sit and have a meal. Like, we could sit down for a meal for two hours, and it would be okay.

Speaker A: Priorities are, you know, different.

Speaker B: But the rat race continued here.

Speaker C: We would run into somebody we met in the streets and then your whole day changes because you're gonna go have coffee and grappa at, you know, 11 o'. Clock.

Speaker A: So you're searching for something in the moment, you didn't find it, but in hindsight it sounds like you did.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And what was it?

Speaker B: What was it? Jeff? Uh, um, so when we came back from our travels, you know, we were honestly more lost than ever. I remember being he, thankfully. Uh, his sister in law, her parents had a place on Lake Albemarle. Is that right?

Speaker C: Tillery.

Speaker B: Lake Tillery in Albemarle, North Carolina. Little tiny house. And they were like, if you want to just stay there for a little winter.

Speaker C: So nobody goes there in the middle of winter.

Speaker B: Yeah. So nobody was there. So we went and stayed at this house and you know, little tiny place, so quiet, nothing. Have everything dead around us. And I remember sometimes just sitting there on the couch like in a little ball, like, what on earth is next? I have no idea what's going to come of this. And I think we both felt quite scared and not sure what to do. Um, I ended up taking the first job I could find in retail because here by then the recession had hit. Um, there were none of the jobs that we were, you know, thought city built on banking. Yeah. So confidently returned to. Everything had been ripped out from under of us. Silly us for leaving. How stupid of us to leave. Um, and so I got a job at Lululemon in retail and Jeff started teaching tennis because he played at Davidson. And at least it was some money coming in because we had blown through everything, um, stupidly again because we thought we could easily rebuild.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker B: Well, yes, but yes. I think our notion the time to

Speaker A: do it's young because you get that time to rebuild.

Speaker B: We thought we could come back and rebuild quickly. Um, but it probably took the amount

Speaker C: of time from, you know, we were doing pretty well, um, in our late 20s when we got married. So the amount of time until we were making the same.

Speaker A: You were making enough money, it was probably five years. Not have a paycheck for six months and travel.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's it.

Speaker A: And it's not cheap being on the road full time.

Speaker B: Right. So, yeah. So Jeff took me to dinner one night, you know, and he, he said, um, we were eating pizza and I remember I was drinking a half of ice and. And he goes, so I've decided I know what I want to do with my life. And I'm thinking like, yay. He's going to go into like green development. Because that's what he was talking about. Like he's got some connections and he's going to go into city development, green planning, all this stuff. And he goes, I want to open that restaurant that we were talking about when we were traveling. And I was like, oh no.

Speaker A: Hear a loud thud as your stomach hit the ground.

Speaker C: No.

Speaker B: So that was kind of the uh.

Speaker C: It was, it was awesome. Like if very fortuitous that that was probably the best time in our lifetime to open a restaurant. Yeah, 2008 was um, such a crazy down year. But to be able to kind of like want to do something and be bullish about doing something, it was um, was incredible for us.

Speaker A: And this was crepe seller or. Sorry, crepe seller. Um, kitchen and pub.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that was in 2009 you opened.

Speaker B: Yes, in the very bottom of the recession. So it was April 2009.

Speaker A: Good timing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Well, honestly it kind of is a good time because if you can open in that, it's only going to get better, you know.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: And it's also probably when you get the best deals.

Speaker C: Yeah, we, we got a great deal. We did a, um, open kind of open employment thing where interview process and I think we filled every spot in four or five hours. It was, we had a lot line out the doors for jobs.

Speaker B: Not for crepes, but for jobs.

Speaker A: So uh, one thing I noticed too, uh, do you own the dirt in all of your locations?

Speaker C: We don't own the dirt, but we own a good bit of our locations.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker A: So I was wondering if that was a part of the strategy is the real estate angle.

Speaker B: It became part of it.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's become part mostly because uh. So every project we've done so far has been in a restored um, or an old exit strategy spot.

Speaker A: So not turnkey, but so in order

Speaker C: to um, put the kind of investment that you need into a spot and get your money back with. We know what we're working with. Um, it's. It's tough to have a short term lease and a short view on things. So we shoot for 20 year leases, 21 year leases I think is what you can do in North Carolina. So we shoot for that longest length of time possible, um, and have everything negotiated out through that time period.

Speaker A: What are the pros and cons to that?

Speaker C: So, um, the pros are, um, potentially you could end up paying a little bit more because, you know, they're trying to hedge their bets of what the real Estate world looks like over the next 20 years. Um, and in, like, in a place like Noda, I think it could be pretty dangerous because it was always, hey, the light rail's coming. And, you know, it ended up coming but eight or nine years later than it was, than it was supposed to. Um, so I think kind of negotiating. Yeah, negotiating through that and, um, keeping that initial price down because it's going to go up by a percent every single year for 20 years.

Speaker A: So your rent on a sliding scale.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So you're going to start as low as possible to, you know, you got to cement your success or like, the lower, the more m. Like the leaner you are in the beginning. But over time as that, that, that name gets out there, it keeps.

Speaker C: Yeah, it keeps, Keeps creeping up. And, and, um, the places that we have leases, we've been able to do pretty well because, uh, you know, I think the amount of revenue we've been able to squeeze out per square foot is higher than, you know, probably what the average, um, tenant, you know, would be. We're, we're not quite at $1,000 per square foot of revenue, but we're hovering right around there. And I think normally landlords are looking at you probably being in the 800 range. So I think being a little bit higher on what you can produce, um, helps that. Um, and then again, we, we do own, um. So we started, uh, we started Crepe Cellar and, um, we didn't own the space. We had a lease that I probably wouldn't sign today that, you know, granted all the rights to the landlord. But at that time, there's. There was nowhere no way else for us to get a lease. And we were also in this position that we had just gone to Europe, spent every single dollar we had a little bit to live on soon still. But, um, you know, we, we. We weren't giving up a whole lot. I was like, yeah, I'll sign. I'll sign my life away. Like, what is. What does that matter what you know now about leases?

Speaker A: You said that you wouldn't sign that lease today. What specifically was it about that lease that you wouldn't have signed?

Speaker C: Not enough control over. Um, what happened 5 years out, 10 years out, 15 years out, um, where it was more the market would determine those rental rates. I, I don't love having that ambiguity. And, and you see, um, it's a risk.

Speaker A: You don't, you can't, you don't have no idea what's gonna happen.

Speaker C: From my business school perspective of, like, how to squeeze the most out of your tenant. Um, you know, kind of what everybody's taught in business school is if you're renegotiating a lease with somebody and they spent millions of dollars on your space improving it, and they're making, you know, if they're making $500,000 a year in your space, you should charge them $400,000 more in rent. Like, you should charge them as much as they will stay there and pay you. And so, um, from that kind of game theory perspective, I always wanted to kind of, um, have more concise on those levers that you. They get pulled later in the lease.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: Uh,

Speaker A: so you're where to go from here. How much money did you think you needed to raise to get open? What was that projected number?

Speaker C: Um, we raised a ridiculously small amount of money. We used equipment. Um, what was the space before you moved in? It was a Jamaican restaurant. Um, Addie's Jamaican Cuisine. Um, and. And she kind of had, uh, an investor that dropped out and ended up leaving town. And we noticed that her water bill wasn't paid, and there was a sticker on the door. Water's cut off. And so we reached out to the landlord, and they reached out to her, and she just disappeared. Ghosted. And then they.

Speaker A: Oh, wow.

Speaker C: Um, so we got her equipment, we got all of her tables. We got everything. And so we, you know, spent as little as possible. We also had contractors knocking at our door to, you know, that wanted work. Yeah, everybody wanted to help. Um, nobody was charging that much for anything. Um, and so we were. Yeah, we were in a wonderful place. I always joke that, um, the grill. I don't know if you've seen the grill over here at Supperland in the main house.

Speaker A: Pulled in, parked in the parking lot.

Speaker C: The grill, um, here costs more than our whole build out.

Speaker A: Is that a Grills by Demont Grill by any chance? Is it what the live fire grill is? Are you talking about?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's grill works.

Speaker A: Grill works.

Speaker C: Okay, cool.

Speaker A: Yeah, I did notice it, but, like, I was trying. I was also, like, for the four space 14, there's a lot of things.

Speaker C: Yeah, grill works.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, and then, uh. Yeah, but anyway, I'll take a look at that before I get out of here. Um, yeah, those grills aren't cheap on neither the hood systems you need to install to use them.

Speaker C: Right? Yes.

Speaker A: Uh, so, okay, so you had this vision for a crepe restaurant, um, that was kind of what you shared with Jamie when you were like, I know what I want to do. Did this space allow for that? Like, was it. Was there overlap in what you needed?

Speaker C: We, I think we originally were super interested in doing a European gastropub. Was like, let's bring back all these things from our experiences in Europe and, um, you know, hang out and have a few pints and, um, some French wines and all that. And, um, we kind of did a bunch of market research, talking to our friends, and we came up with the crepe idea because it was affordable. You m. Can have a crepe for 13, $14. Um, and it worked really, really well. But it still transported you to this, um, special place. So we were still trying to run a gastropub. Um, I think it was more of a gastropub than a crepery.

Speaker B: Yeah, we sold a lot more of our burgers. We had the Crepe Cellar burger, which, like, won awards all over the city for being so delicious. But, yeah, that was our number one seller.

Speaker C: Uh, we also did fish specials and things like that. And I think having all that, the extra little things that we're doing, let us really grow over the years of what we are capable of culinarily and allowed us to get better rather than just making crepes. But then as the end of Crepe Cellar came and when we decided to stick. Stick a fork in it, um, you know, we had learned that you can't charge more than 18 for a crepe. You can't. Like, we were really kind of hamstrung of what we could do from a per. Per person perspective. So that's why we kind of tilted

Speaker A: and went 13 year run, though.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because it was 2022 that you. You switched that over.

Speaker B: We still have people who tell us that was their favorite restaurant in Charlotte.

Speaker A: So I think we'll get into why I like to just stick with the guy. You just chose to close that. Um, but what was that number that you needed to get open that you had in your mind?

Speaker C: Um, I, you know, I think we were trying to. I think we were trying to stay under 150, and I think we kind of hit that. Maybe, you know, we got up to like 165 with credit cards and stuff like that and having to cover payrolls and things like that.

Speaker A: So where did most of that money go? If it was. It was turnkey. Like, you didn't know it.

Speaker C: It wasn't. It wasn't turnkey. We had to fix some of the hood in the H vac. Um, we built a few walls, fixed up the bathrooms, flip the bar and the door. Yeah, Flip like built a bar um, and kind of put. We couldn't afford commercial windows so we put household windows like kind of on the front on the street to make it a cafe. Um. Situation. Um, it was um, we, we had to buy bar stools and um, booths and, and things like that.

Speaker B: So restain the floor.

Speaker C: Yeah, there's, there's, yeah there's a bunch of you know a bunch of things like that that we were just trying to.

Speaker A: So you had a three year run before opening your second location?

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: 2012.

Speaker C: Yeah. So almost immediately. I mean I think we were still.

Speaker B: It was about a year and a half later that we opened up Growler's Poor House.

Speaker A: So I saw that you opened uh, the Crepe Cellar kitchen pub in 2009 and 2012 is what I have for the Growlers.

Speaker B: Growlers actually opened up in August of 2010.

Speaker A: Oh wow.

Speaker B: It was a year and a half later.

Speaker A: Failed me chat GPT.

Speaker B: It's okay.

Speaker A: But that's even more impressive. A year.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Yeah. While we were doing the build out for Crepe Cellar, um, the, there's a retail store where Growlers was and that store went out. Um, and our landlord you know even approached us like while we're you know trying to get open. Um, they were shopping around and it's, it's a crazy setup because you, there's not enough room in Growlers to run a bar unless you have the kitchen next door. So um, we were able to kind of literally.

Speaker A: Next door.

Speaker C: Yeah. So we were, we were able to keep going. Um, we got Crepe Cellar open. I sold another 5% of um, what we had done to our investor and got um, a little more money to you know roll into Growlers. And um, we opened that up and

Speaker B: that's a really unusual um, situation over there. A lot of people don't realize this but if you were to look at those buildings you've got now it's ever ondelo had been Crepe Cellar sitting there. Right next to it is Growlers Poorhouse on the corner of 35th in the Little neighborhood of Noda and then around the corner is where we had our walk up window for raining donuts for many years. And it will be our new deli concept. But so there are three places but in the back of house it's the, it's a shared kitchen.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that's what allows us to work Growlers. It's too small to have that full kitchen and a hood and everything. But we make some items over in the Ever Andolo kitchen that services growlers. Pornhouse.

Speaker A: How far away is harder?

Speaker B: Harder Dish from Haberdish. Yeah.

Speaker A: Thank you very much.

Speaker B: That's okay.

Speaker C: It's two doors down.

Speaker A: Is it H A D H A

Speaker B: B E R. Haber.

Speaker A: Wow. Sorry.

Speaker B: Chats. Oh, you just. Typo.

Speaker A: Typo.

Speaker B: It's a weird. All of our places have kind of unusual names, but that was that close by.

Speaker A: These other locations too.

Speaker C: Two doors down.

Speaker A: Oh, you guys are really moving out. Yeah.

Speaker B: So in Noda, we have a block that has four concepts on it, but

Speaker A: this is the way to do it. I think that. I think there's something to be said about like growth comes from the inside out. So if you can like just slowly swell and slowly absorb what's around you. If you have to provide energy to something that is an hour drive, two hour drives away, like that energy to literally get what that thing needs.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: That pulls from your total bank of energy right this, uh, the time, the distance. I think slowly absorbing what's around you is the smartest way to scale.

Speaker B: Yeah. And any of our efforts that we would do like with, with the neighborhood or anything, it was bringing more people there. And if, you know, it was also like with our team, some people would cross train at multiple places over the years, you know, or if they got tired here, they'd ask for other opportunities. We might be able to move them somewhere else. And I think it really did create an ecosystem where it lifted all of our places at the same time. And the neighborhood, more things. Things came in. Now it's. It's crazy because there is a light rail that leads out through the neighborhood and apartments going up all over the place. So we're still seeing, I think the. The fruition of that neighborhood that, you know, we surely didn't start it. It's actually an old mill town that started in the early 1900s. And we're just kind of getting to. To hang on to the last bits of that and help it continue to grow in a different way.

Speaker A: That's cool. Uh, but momentum markets are so powerful. Getting ahead of the curve curve and taking a little bit of a risk on a space. But I think that these markets are more m. They're more numerous than ever before because I think there's a. This drive away from big cities right now. You don't need to live in big cities to make money anymore. And your, your quality of life can be so much better if you put less resources towards rent and like food and like Just the cost of being in those cities.

Speaker C: I was, I'm going to make a little pitch out there to anybody in uh, New York or Chicago that may be listening, but I was looking at sous chef pay yesterday and it's about. So in Charlotte, we typically pay about 15% less than um, New York City. But the living expenses, like, the living expenses in New York city are about 70% higher.

Speaker A: I don't think it'd be higher than

Speaker C: that for somebody making, you know, like, but 70% higher. Like that's, it's, that's incredible.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So if you want a, uh, you know, ah, to make, make uh, the move down and have a nice, you know, um, change of scenery, we would, we would love to have you.

Speaker B: Jeff is ready to pay to send any sous chefs.

Speaker C: All those, all those sous chefs in uh, in Philly and New York and Chicago working in Michelin starred places. Just send your resume and we'd be happy to, happy to help you. Come on, move down to Charlotte.

Speaker A: We'll give you an opportunity to share a website or email. M. Ah, so what were the biggest lesson? I mean, in my experience, like, you see somebody especially. Here's the other thing. I hope you don't take this the wrong way. Like up to this point in your story 2009, going into 2010, like, you're the stereotypical description of somebody or two people who should not open a restaurant. Right. Like, and you had fun and you're like, I want to do this. And you had no experience, let's go open a restaurant. But you pulled it off and you continue to get better every day. So like, it goes to show that you can be one of those people who shouldn't do it. That should.

Speaker C: Right. We brought in, um, when we opened the restaurant, we were smart enough to at least get some advice. And so we brought in, um, Paul Manley, who's an experienced restaurant, um, guy that I was friends with previously. And um, he probably spent the first two weeks of us hanging out and talking, trying to convince us not to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's what this podcast mission is.

Speaker C: He wanted to make sure we were persistent enough that like, we weren't gonna break down.

Speaker A: I hope that we talk people out of it in these conversations to really show how hard it is. But if you still have that, if you're still crazy enough to do it, then it's like, first mission, talk you out of it. Second mission, inspire you, empower you and teach you how to do it, transform you. So, uh, so what was Paul's story Before coming on board with you?

Speaker C: Um, yeah. So I knew Paul. He had been a regional, um, VP for Lone Star. Um, and so when I was at the race team, I gotten to work with him a little bit. And then when we came back from Europe, he was, um, doing restaurant consulting.

Speaker A: Okay, so he was a VP for Lone Star. The brewery?

Speaker C: No, Lone Star Steakhouse and Saloon.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: So used. They used to own Del Frisco's and Sullivan's and Lone Star Steakhouse.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: And, um, so they were a big, uh, kind of steakhouse chain about, you know, 25 years ago.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: Got it. And, um, they had done a little sponsorship on our race car. So I kind of. Of knew a bunch of the people working there and came back and I sent him. I didn't even have his phone number anymore. I think I sent him a handwritten note. And he got. And he got back to me, which is. Yeah. Which is crazy. And he's like, yeah, I'm not with them anymore. I'm consulting. And, um, you know, he's like, I'm not gonna help you because you shouldn't do this.

Speaker A: You know, they should try to talk you out of it.

Speaker C: And then, um, yeah, and then he. He came on board and decided to help us out. And, um, he's, you know, he's thriving. We. He's kind of. We're. We're. We're crazy. You know, we're opening up singular restaurant concepts in the same town. And, um, he has more of a vision to, you know, try to create, like, real brands that are, you know, that he can grow into multiple units. So he has, um, you know, cool burger thing called Ace Number three. And then he has Sea level, um, Uptown, and, uh, Waterman, he's got, um, a few of those.

Speaker A: How many units all in together is he running right now?

Speaker C: Um, what is he, three, four, five? He's got like six or seven. Yeah, six, seven.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, so you guys are scaling pace.

Speaker C: He's. He's doing well. And, um, yeah, we just decided that, you know, he wants to kind of go that. That build one thing route, and we wanted to just keep doing our crazy stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah, There is no one way, right? And I don't think there's. It all depends on what do you. What do you love? Like, you can reverse engineer whatever outcome you want in the restaurant industry. Uh, so I think that's one of the things that's driven me crazy as the host of this podcast, trying to figure out, like, what is the secret? There is no secret. Like, There is no one way. There's a million possibilities. Uh, so you're getting help, getting a mentor. I think that's so important. Um, what were the biggest things in the early days that if not for Paul, you would not have gotten? Right.

Speaker B: Gosh, he had so many little tiny tricks to things that, like, of course, never being in the restaurant business, we didn't know about. So, like, one. I always remember, this is such a specific thing. But he never. He would always talk about bar seats and then lower seats, and you never wanted lower seats near bar seats because then people who are eating at the lower tables will have, like, these bottoms in their faces, you know, and. And so making sure there's enough space between that and I just, like, started looking at restaurants in a different way. That's such a tiny little insight. But he had so many of them, you know, I didn't know about, you know, like, how to properly run food to the table or how to, you know, you know, the idea of polishing silverware. Do restaurants actually go to the trouble of that? Well, yes, nicer restaurants do go to the trouble to do that.

Speaker C: Um, I think he set a operational standard of, um. These are, you know, these, like, food cost is important. You can't just not figure it out and not do inventory that. No, we do inventory and we do these things. And so I think that operational structure and being really well structured from the beginning has helped us, um, to help this grow. And we've gotten better at it. I think we quickly learned that doing everything every two weeks doesn't work. That I can't remember what I spent two weeks ago on my credit card, which is. It's crazy to sound, uh, like a crazy thing to say, but it, like, you can't. When you're making all these purchases and moving on and doing all these things that we do everything. Our books close. Like, we're. We do inventory, we do payroll. We do all that stuff on Monday, and our books close on Tuesday. Every single week. Yeah. There is no going back. It is. It is done, and we are moving forward. And then on Wednesday and Thursday, we are looking at the numbers from last week. Where do we have errors? What can we fix? How do we move forward? Why weren't we as profitable as you should be?

Speaker A: Right. So is it. Do you think the combination of having the. The mentor that had the experience knows what the job done Right. Looks like? Also, you have your MBA background, so that's.

Speaker C: That helped because I think that we pushed Paul in new directions and, like, kind of like Blew his mind of like, uh, well, this is how it's always been done in the restaurant business.

Speaker A: And it's been done wrong for a long time. Yeah. And we're the 1905 business model.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And we're not gonna do it that way. And he'd be like, I. And then we'd do it and he'd be like, oh, okay, yeah.

Speaker A: What's an example of something like that?

Speaker B: That just like you talk about it, but like food stuff. Like we did a lot of homemade food.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, just sticking to our. We're gonna make everything homemade. And um, you know, it would have a French fry program is a big undertaking. Um, and nobody wants to do it. It takes space, it takes refrigeration, it takes a, ah, consistency.

Speaker A: Soak the fries.

Speaker C: You have to do all this stuff the day before. There's. It's a commitment, the ph balance. Um, yeah, there's, there's. There's a whole commitment. But once you write up that plan and you stick to it. And I thank our first executive chef who still works for us, Steve Cooney.

Speaker A: I'm trying not to eat fries right now, man.

Speaker C: Staying, Staying tried and true to that of like, let's make our own. Like, I know this is a pain, but why are we going to have one thing on our menu that we don't make? Yeah. Right. And so let's just. Yeah, let's stick to it. And also, um, frozen fries are expensive. Homemade fries are free. Like, they are so cheap.

Speaker A: Right. Um, potatoes are. Yeah, one.

Speaker C: One other one was. So we opened up. We opened up Growlers, which was kind of a new style of craft beer bar. And we got top, um, top beer bar in the country for five straight years from Draft Magazine. Top or. Yeah, top.

Speaker A: Sorry, but it was a small bar.

Speaker C: It was top hundred. Yes. Not the top, but top hundred craft beer bar in the country, um, for five straight years from Draft Magazine. But up until that point, every place that served craft beer were these places that had a hundred taps and they would just put everything on. It was these like, kind of big mega places with craft beer. Um, and we decided to really curate our list. We had 14 taps, we had 10 beers that stayed on and three seasonals. And, um, so 11 beers and three seasonals. And, uh, each one of the beers that stayed on the ipa, we would switch it every two to three months based on the season. So we'd always have an ipa, but it would switch all throughout the season. And then we even went a step further that we had Three seasonal beers where we throw the pumpkin beer or. Or whatever when you got in the summertime. But our, you know, and even like, our. Our Hefeweizen would be, uh, like Bells, um, had a Hefeweizen they put out for Christmas. So like, you'd have all those, like, seasonal things. So if you'd like to particular style of beer, you just come in and order that style and know that we curated, uh, the best one in the category.

Speaker A: Like, that I can't stand when I go to a bar and it's like 10 different IPAs, and you're like, come on.

Speaker B: Yeah, tell me what I should drink.

Speaker C: Yeah, so we. We stick to. Yeah, one or two. And they're very curated and hitting, you know, certain. Certain points. And then the other piece, uh, was up to that time, everybody was just, you know, used to selling, um, Bud Light, Miller Lite, Coors Light. And you're selling a can that you get for 50 cents for about $2.50. Yeah. So you have a good. You'd have a good margin. You have about a 20% margin. And I went to Paul and I said, look, we're gonna take a hit on our beer. We're gonna charge $4 for our beer, and we're gonna pay like a dollar and 10, dollar 20 cents. So we're only, like. Our margin was 25 to 30% on beer, which was wild to. He's just like, I don't get this. And I'm like, but look, we're making $3 every single time someone buys a beer in profit. You know, so we were. We'll make $3 in profit every time someone buys a beer, versus you go and have your 20% cost on a Coors Light, but the maximum you can make is a $75.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: You know, so it's just not. It's not the same metric. We were making twice as much profit per beer, but having a terrible, you know, beer cost as far as traditional, um, you know, markets went.

Speaker A: Got it. Got it. And your food was coming out of the kitchen next door.

Speaker C: So we designed a crazy process that, um, we went really, really homemade. Um, we were. We were doing homemade sausages, which took a lot of pressure. Um, we even made a homemade hot dog, um, at the time. Um, so we. We had all these kind of homemade sausages, homemade hot dogs, all these. All these things, but super easy to heat up. So you're just.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, that's a really fun concept, growing them.

Speaker C: Yeah. And. And then we have, um, Paul. Paul's like a expert in oysters, too. So we kind of threw in that raw bar oyster thing. So that's what we do have in the kitchen over there. And that's why, um, oysters have always been, like, part of Growler's DNA. Um, which is great because when you have a kitchen, oysters are really the best thing to do. So we used to do, um, when we first opened. Prices are different now, but when we first opened, we even had a thing, 50 oysters for $55. And people would come in all the time. And it was really funny. We had the POS set up that every single kitchen printer in the whole place, and it. And at Crepe Cellar next door would go off. So if you're. If there's two bartenders on, like, they would get a ticket. Like, 50 oysters came up. And then sometimes there'd be, like, you know, two or three of them up, and you're like, oh, that's the second one. I gotta go. And you'd go over and help out and shuck. And so everybody.

Speaker A: Everyone's on the same page.

Speaker C: Everybody would know that. Yeah, we just. We sold a bunch of those.

Speaker A: So what would. If there was a single biggest challenge, like, the first, because I feel like you opened Growlers and the Crepe Cellar together, almost. It was like. Like within. Like, it was all happening at once. Like, at that point, that first year of owning a restaurant goes by like that, and you're opening another one on the heels of that, it was probably one experience. Right. And then 2017, you had the window for the donut concept.

Speaker B: We opened up, um, haberdish in 2016.

Speaker A: 2016, yeah. Um, so I guess what I'm curious about right now is, like, what were your big. Like, if there was one biggest challenge, like, what was that? If this is of opening your first restaurants first gear, what was second gear? And what was the challenge to get it into second gear?

Speaker C: I mean, it's. It's weird be. So now we're like, from a dollar standpoint, we're growing at, like, a huge rate, but from our percent standpoint, we've pretty much every single year grown 25 to 30% for 16 years.

Speaker A: So volume of, like, sales.

Speaker C: So through. Yeah, from, like, sales volume, pretty much. If you just, like, chart it out. Obviously there's big, bigger jumps when a new restaurant opens, but for the most part, like, our growth. And even now we have to open up two places next year to keep that, you know, 20, 25 to 30 growth. But that's, you know, pretty much how we've, we've grown. So there hasn't really been, you know, this like first gear, second gear, third gear, fourth gear. I think we've just always been in about third gear. Um, so we're all but you as

Speaker A: operators, as your business grows, you have to elevate. Right. You have to move yourself, you have to build layers. Like, I'm sure when you opened, you were on the floor every day. Yeah, you were. You, what were your lanes. Because you weren't the chef.

Speaker C: I was not the chef. I was, um, I was really just learning. I was hanging out.

Speaker B: You ran a lot of expo.

Speaker C: I remember spending time there. So I had, I had expo shifts that I ran. I was kind of the, I was the gm.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, and then it wasn't until, um, yeah. That we opened up growlers and then started to get more competent people. Was able to hire a GM and move myself.

Speaker A: So the first two years you're able to remove yourself from the day to day?

Speaker C: No, I worked Expo until about three weeks before Haberdish opened.

Speaker A: Okay. And Haberdish was in 2016. Sixteen. So six years.

Speaker B: And also when, when we were opening up the restaurant and everything, um, we were not in a place financially for me to go work on the restaurant stuff either. So I went, got a full time job.

Speaker A: So you're working full time?

Speaker B: Yeah, I left.

Speaker C: And doing the restaurant stuff?

Speaker B: Yeah, I would do like social media stuff. The very pr. Marketing, branding. Yep, exactly.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Very, very simple stuff. And. And back then it was really just Facebook, sometimes Twitter, but like not, not a whole lot of stuff. But, um, yeah, I got a full time job just so that we could, you know, be steady and be able

Speaker C: to pay rent when Jamie came on. And that's when we like exponential growth, really.

Speaker B: I gave my notice at my job, um, pretty much the week that we signed our lease at Haberdish.

Speaker A: I was curious how you were pulling this off. Yeah. So you had that. You got that full time?

Speaker B: I was our breadwinner.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: For a very long time.

Speaker A: And in 2016 with Haberdish is when you came on full time.

Speaker B: Um, that's when I moved over and we really started doing things a little bit differently with Haberdish. Haberdish, we opened up on our own. So this was the first time we didn't have Paul with us. Um, and um, with me being on there full time. And mind you, we had also at that time point had, uh, two children. Uh, actually the third came as well.

Speaker A: So do you have kids before Opening? No, because you were traveling.

Speaker B: We had kid. Our first child came in August of 2009. So, you know, a handful of months after she was.

Speaker C: She was pregnant hosting. Like, when we, like the first week we opened.

Speaker B: Wow. It wasn't a pretty situation. Wasn't a pretty beginning. But I think that's what it is for a lot of people, you know,

Speaker A: and it's never going to be right.

Speaker C: Things are never the middle of summer in Charlotte. Really. Poor H vac system, pregnant owner's wife hosting. Like it was people tips.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, but, um.

Speaker A: So, yeah, so it sounds like 2026 was a big shift for you. You are moving out from the day to day, expediting general managing, uh, and you're coming on full time. And what was your focus? What were you going to tackle? What was your lane?

Speaker B: Yeah, so 2016, you know, with Haberdish opening, a big part of what I wanted to do was dive into social media. It had been, um, you know, very powerful for a lot of companies on, you know, Instagram specifically, also Facebook. But we really dove into Instagram to tell our story of opening and create a following prior to opening so that we could. Then when we opened our doors, there would be, you know, people inside of there. So I really took to that storytelling piece. And that's something, to this day, that's a big part of what we do. We try not to just focus just on, hey, we have a special, or we have this new steak in, or we have this. We try to tell our stories. So we're doing that, you know, right now, um, as we open up the donut shop, you know, showing the construction behind the scenes, you know, how we're developing the menu, the tastings, all that kind of stuff so that people get pulled into the process. And it was so effective back with Haberdish, um, because it was all new to people, too. Like, people were just using. Just starting to use social media as a means of, I'll say, entertainment. Um, you know, going on there to learn or to find something new. And, um, it was really a time we really created the tablescape there, uh, for the first time, was very, very intentional.

Speaker A: What do you mean by tablescape?

Speaker B: Um, sure. The tables themselves we actually built from the rafters of the building. So when we did the construction and we pulled out a bunch of the rafters to put in the kitchen, we used those rafters to make the tables. And, you know, we intentionally curated a bar top there that came from a quarry in Virginia. And we used Selvedge Denim on the back of the banquettes and using those little pieces. And that was that Selvedge denim came from, uh, Cone Mills, which is a North Carolina textile mill. So kind of starting to layer the story in a much deeper way and a way that we were trying to connect with people before we even opened and then allow that story to continue be told after our doors were open. So I think that's when we really got real intentional. And a lot of it was we finally had the time. Like that was like something I could kind of dive into and do.

Speaker A: It's so important. You cannot do it alone in this industry. Uh, there's so many things you need to be good at. There's so m. Many hats.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So many departments, so many zones to do it alone. I don't think you can do it alone today and be the best.

Speaker B: Well, and it's clear, like with all of our restaurants, we've got 330 people and we've got some people who are absolutely excellent at butchering steaks and they do that every single day. And some people are tremendous at baking biscuits or, or pie shells or sauces. Yes. And having that breadth of knowledge. Absolutely. It's, it's completely imperative. Especially if you're in restaurants where you're making everything homemade. You need that expertise. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, so 2016, you come in to really throw fuel on the marketing flame, to really build, create awareness, leverage the tools that are out there to really drive brand telling story. Leaning into story I think is so important. The details of why you. I don't think like if you do something intentionally, if there's a thought, a reason behind that thing, then everyone should know.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: And that's an opportunity to differentiate yourself. Uh, Jeff, what was going on in your world around this time as Jamie's coming on full time.

Speaker C: Yes. So, um, I do. I was in the process of handing off, um, crepe cellar and growlers and um, getting a GM over there and then getting a GM for haberdish and trying to learn to be a multi unit, um, manager. But we also have always done a lot of the construction. So I was over there. Yeah, I was over there. I was over there almost every day just involved in the day to day construction, making sure it's going well. And that's where it's great that it was next door. Um, because I would even, you know, go expo, a brunch shift and you know, then go, you know, make some stuff, um, and help out. But then I've always kind, um, of need to steer the ship. But I also am like a really good problem solver. So I would. I kind of tend to whatever the GM or whatever someone can't solve. I would just go and put all my efforts towards solving those problems. So Colleen was in the process. So Haberdish was.

Speaker B: She's our mix.

Speaker C: Our mixologist that, um, you know, just won the mixology award from Michelin for the American South. Um, that was kind of her first, um, real full cocktail list that she was putting out. She was doing the cocktail list over a crepe seller. But this was like, let's show what Colleen can do and where we've morphed to. And so I was kind of solving a lot of the problems in the background for her of, like, we wanted to have crystal clear ice. And so we spent a year trying to figure out how to have crystal clear ice. And once we figured it out, we started putting flowers in these round crystal clear ice balls.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker C: Which kind of helped our Instagram stories and all the other, all the other stuff going on. So I would just kind of, um, do the math that they needed for the cocktail program.

Speaker A: And how do we make this profitable?

Speaker C: Well, and then, yeah, that's, that's always another thing. Luckily, I feel like, uh, the fried chicken and cocktail model, um, especially back then, um, with Jamie kind of getting people there is, is a great model chicken. Um, you know, as long as there's no bird flu, the prices stay pretty steady. And it is, uh, operationally, you know,

Speaker A: do one thing really well.

Speaker C: Do, do that well. And then the cocktail program, Colleen was really knocking it out of the park. And I think we started off on really good footing.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Over there. Yeah.

Speaker A: It sounds, I mean, was that intentional to try to streamline and do one thing really well where you kind of was maybe your mentor's advice kind of rubbing off on you a little bit?

Speaker C: We built, we built everything around to super expensive pressure fryers. Yeah. And then everything else had to kind of fit into that, that model.

Speaker A: So is it just. Is it bone in like whole?

Speaker C: So, yeah, we're using really, really nice chicken, um, a lot of Springer mountain chicken. So we kind of went up a level on, you know, the kind of chicken that was served 10 years ago. And then, um, we brine the chicken so we do like a little full. It's probably like a 12, 16 hour process. And then we have our own breading. Um, we, we do some nice little touches to it. There's a little bit of, um, a little bit of cornmeal and stuff in It. To give it a southern touch.

Speaker A: In terms of the menu, is it just chicken? And do you have sides? I'm assuming too, like, some.

Speaker C: So, yeah, a lot. A lot of sides and everything. Again, homemade. So even, you know, trying. Trying to do a great job with all those sides. How many sides are we talking about adding vegetables? Adding.

Speaker B: Probably have about a dozen sides on the dinner menu.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah. And. And just kind of having a fried chicken place that you could come to and bring a date to where we have exceptional cocktails, we have really good chicken. And, you know, some of those. Some of those sides are from local farms, which, you know, seven, eight, nine years ago was. Was not a thing.

Speaker A: Yep. I notice your team showing up right now. I'm a totally casual podcast. Like, they can be here doing what they need to do.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: This is a restaurant business podcast. Your restaurant comes first.

Speaker B: We reserved. We reserved this room.

Speaker C: They have a few hours.

Speaker A: Okay, Got it.

Speaker B: Yeah, they're good, but thank you. But I think, you know, Haberdish was such a unique restaurant too, for us. Like, um, while we opened, you know, we had opened Crepe Cellar and Growlers, Poorhouse, Haberdish. I think we got our legs under us a little bit, and partly because I had more time, you know, to, you know, devote to everything. But, um, we really wanted to root that place in the neighborhood and in Charlotte. And so that concept was very much driven by all of these travels that we had done throughout the Southeast. So we had traveled down, you know, down to Atlanta and Greenville, Asheville, um, Columbia, outside just like Little York county, you know, to a fish camp. Like, we'd gone to so many different places to Mount Airy, for instance, on the. The Songer Trail. Um, but we really wanted to dive into Southern food and find these little nuances and curious things that would help root Charlotte cuisine. And we centered the menu around fried chicken. But we wanted that whole experience at the table to also feel like you had shown up to your grandmother's house and you were having dinner around the table together. So it was when we opened up. Haberdish is when we really started getting into family style dining. And that's where, you know, everybody at the table is enjoying the same food as opposed to each person having their own plate of food.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's the basket of chicken, right?

Speaker B: Yes, it's a basket of chicken. There's a large serving of Mac and cheese. There's a large serving of, uh, okra, and you're all sharing around together. And to us, um, what we have felt since then is that idea of communing around the table and sharing not just the experience, but also the food, the bites, the flavors, the smells all together really kind of pulls people together and creates that experience. So I think, you know, Haberdish for us really was like a, a turning point, you know, where it was our first business, um, together. Um, you know, my, my first time getting, getting into the restaurant. Training wheels are a little bit off. We're, we're opening this on our own. We're diving into Charlotte's food.

Speaker A: Paul was there with, with his hand on your back.

Speaker C: Um, the push away.

Speaker B: Like.

Speaker C: Yeah, he was opening his own, getting to this point. He opened his own place at the, the time. So we were kind of, I was

Speaker A: saying leading into Aberdish. He was there in the. He. That was the kind of the final push off.

Speaker C: Like you're on your own. Yeah. So we, we were on our own. One, one thing, you know, I was going to share about, um, Haberdish's opening that's kind of um, trended with us are um, two principles from opening that I think we've, we've learned is one, getting, um, the revenue, uh, especially initial revenue of a place up as high as possible. Revenue fixes all problems in the restaurant business. Um, so we would have, um, you know, it was crazy. We would have SUVs dropping off, um, really nicely dressed ladies from wealthy parts of town and they would go and order three 30 chicken fingers. You know, like you have a group of 12, like you're just like, what is happening here? Um, but so we would have a hundred, 150, 200 hours of overtime.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker C: Over there. And you know, I think the original, like the initial thing is to say we have to stop this. And my initial thing was we have to keep going, give everybody all the overtime that, that they need. We'll just keep doing this. Obviously we have to stabilize. But I wanted to get that revenue number as high as possible, knowing that once you get that revenue, like I would much rather have $4 million in revenue than 3. And once you can get that revenue to that number, then you just start stabilizing. But I wanted, I wanted to make sure that we had enough people that we were delivering that we, you know, were, that had a great product. And that was way more important to me. I would much rather just have a week where we break even and we have 150 hours of overtime. Obviously not sustainable. You gotta, you know, start squelching that right away. But that Was kind of, uh, a big learning of that. Getting that revenue to the highest possible thing, Even if it's 20% higher than you thought it was gonna be, is, is really, really important. And then, and then learning that, yes, like, you have to manage, you have to. The faster that you can react and know that you're, you know, you have that overtime and how to get rid of it. We had a, uh, we had a shift. Where's a lunchtime shift? And my manager's like, oh, you know, we had a $2,000 lunch and we, you know, we thought it was going to be $600 lunch. And there was like a game, um, you know, at bank of America stadium, whatever. And he's like, we had this two thousand dollar lunch. It was crazy. And um, but I got it covered. And I was like, you didn't because you brought in our three most expensive people who were sitting at home on their couches. But our two assistant AGMs came in and like, and like Colleen came in. I'm like, I have the three most expensive people clocked in to cover this $2,000. And I'm like, if we do a great job at a $2,000 lunch and we make 10% profit, how much is that? It's $200. And I'm like, you spent $300 on labor to solve that problem. So, um, getting all those things reined in is super important. But in. But getting that revenue is, is a big help.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, so what, how did you get that, that dialed in? Like, what tricks did you learn? What advice do you have for somebody struggling with the same issue?

Speaker C: Um, well, I think overtime is pretty straightforward. Is you just, you know, you start, um, hiring more people. Hiring. Yeah.

Speaker A: I was like, that's what I was thinking. I was like, why did you tell more people.

Speaker C: Yeah, you still, you still want to stay, you know, under your labor percent, but then you just need to keep hiring more people till you share the work. Yeah, to share. To share the work.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And get. Also, it's not just hiring more people. It's how do you prep more efficiently and how do we. Can we do bigger batches? Can. You know what, what's the, what's the length that um, this stuff is good for and Right. Yeah.

Speaker A: Really pushing it. Yeah. Units of work.

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, and some of it, yeah, some of it's super easy of I need bigger Cambros.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, it's, it, it's. It's.

Speaker A: You, uh, know, I'm working again, bro, as a sponsor, so talk more about Cambro. Why, why do you like Cambridge?

Speaker B: Yeah, we love Cambro.

Speaker C: We love Cambro too. Keep going.

Speaker B: I use it. Well, I actually use Cambro at our house. We have like, the like, weird, like, restaurant stuff in our house all the time. So gigantic.

Speaker A: Once you go.

Speaker B: Great.

Speaker A: Once you go a restaurant, you can't go back because you're like, this fish fits perfectly in my refrigerator.

Speaker B: Yeah, they stack stacks.

Speaker A: I can see through it.

Speaker B: And they handle the freezer fine without cracking. Yeah,

Speaker A: uh, that was fun. So, uh, this was not planned.

Speaker B: We used some of their shelving too.

Speaker C: We've upgraded. They have this, um, hot holding, incredible plastic shelving line.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: Um, and the. The shelves are very maneuverable. I hate the metal unnamed racks with the, you know, the. The plastic ones. Nothing falls through it. They just. They hold up better. And we had a problem in haberdish. Uh, this might go to anybody's walk in that are. When you're pickling a lot and, um, brining stuff, the acid in the walk in will start eating away at your condenser units. And so it was also. There is a treatment you can do for your condenser units, by the way, which is really cool and helpful and stops that from happening. Um, but, um, it also attacks those metal racks. Um, so when all that, um, all those vinegars are evaporating and your thing attacks the metal racks. So now we've just gone to the plastic Cambro racks everywhere.

Speaker A: Awesome. Side note, don't buy new shelving if you can get away with it by use. Sorry, Cambro.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, if you want some shelving, I'm switching to all the nice plastic stuff, so.

Speaker A: All right.

Speaker C: Um, you can have all my old metal wire shells again.

Speaker A: He'll share his.

Speaker C: That's where we put. That's where we put it in. We use all that stuff in storage now. So, like, our storage locker has all that stuff in there.

Speaker A: Um, what is that trick for protecting the compressor? I think this is.

Speaker C: Oh, no, it's like. Yeah, it's a. It's a treatment that they can do to the, uh, the compressor to just keep it. So it doesn't. So the acid doesn't. What is the way all the parts are called? I don't know.

Speaker B: It's just a chemical that they put on it.

Speaker C: Yeah, they have like, some special, like, stuff that they spray on it. And they. My. My people.

Speaker B: Like H Vac people.

Speaker C: Yeah, the H Vac people got it.

Speaker A: Ask for the spray.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, so, okay, again, so Restaurant stoppables. Mission Inspire. Empower. Transform. It's totally inspiring story. You're giving us some great little details and knowledge, but really what I want to focus on going forward is your points of evolution. Because today you're doing a lot. You know, you host your own show, you're opening, you're opening, you're exponentially scaling, um, you're moving, removing yourself more and more from the front line. So if in 2017, 16, you're coming in, you're moving towards more of a delegate to GMs and AGMs, and you're kind of putting out fires, solving problems. How long was this point of evolution going before the next point of evolution came in? And what was that point? This episode is made possible by US Foods. It takes more than great food to run a kitchen these days. With US Foods, more means consistently high quality products, industry leading tools, inflexible deliveries that let you grow your business on your schedule. Whatever your goals, US Foods helps you turn them into reality. As a US Foods customer, you'll gain access to their industry leading moxy platform, which doesn't just make it easy to place your US Foods order, but it uses AI powered technology to help you take more control of your business and increase profitability. You can also explore the latest issues of Food Fanatics magazine from US Foods. In each issue you'll find real world success stories, bold culinary inspiration and practical profit boosting ideas you can put to work immediately. Visit usfoods.com expect more to learn how to become a, uh, US Foods customer again, that's usfoods.com/expect more restaurant owners are you still juggling six tools to hire, schedule and pay your team? Workstream replaces all of them with one platform for hiring, scheduling, payroll and compliance. Built specifically for restaurants trusted by 46 of the top 50 restaurant brands, including McDonald's, Starbucks, Crumble and more. With Work Stream, 35,000 operators have cut their interview no show rates by 55%, saved 20% on payroll and saved 30,000 a year on software alone. If you're done duct taping your HR stack together, visit Workstream US Unstoppable and see what an all in one restaurant grade platform actually feels like. That's Work Stream US unstoppable for three months free payroll. I repeat, that's Workstream US unstoppable for three months of free payroll.

Speaker B: I think supper, like the opening of Supperland was huge. We basically, you know, Haberdish was an incredible opening. I mean even to this day I feel like it might have been like our most crazy, um, opening. Like we were smashed with three hour waits every single night. And I think it was the price point. I think it was something unique. I think Charlotte was ready for something. Like, there was a lot of things at play. Um, and so. But very quickly after Haberdish opened, uh, we started looking for other spaces. And I don't even know how we had the bandwidth, except that we had started putting people in place that could manage, um, you know, the restaurants themselves. So that there was time to kind of step back and look at the big picture. And I think that's one of the things that we found over time is like, don't let that dream eat you alive. Get things in place. We think our job is more like being restaurant creators and. And then from there, like, yes, we're managing, but the orchestration of service really belongs to others on our team.

Speaker A: Right, Your producers.

Speaker B: Yes, we step away and allow them to do their jobs because they're outstanding. And if we show up, we're just gonna have everybody walking on eggshells, you know, like, we don't want to do that. We want it to feel natural and everything. So I think after Haberdish opened, we were really excited about the notion of opening something else. And so we started looking at old buildings again because Haberdish had been in an old building, and we loved bringing that story to life. So we started looking for spaces, and this one came across our radar. Um, it was four years before we opened, so we were 2017.

Speaker C: We were actually in the process of opening Haberdash.

Speaker B: That's right, yeah. Okay, so 2016, we came over here and visited here for the first time.

Speaker A: How far is this from that core center of every. Everything you had going on?

Speaker B: About a mile and a half.

Speaker A: Oh, my God. You guys went across country.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yes. So for us, this was a big jump, right? This is a big jump. And this was a huge building. And I remember somebody, there was a writer who said, like, who gave them permission to open up such a big concept over here, like, which I thought was interesting. Like, um, the gall. Yeah, the goal.

Speaker A: But.

Speaker B: But not in a bad way. He meant it in a way like. Like, Like, I. I don't even know. Like, just like.

Speaker A: It's not even that big. I mean, you said 200 seats with all the seats.

Speaker B: Yes. But, uh, it's two buildings. The patio, um, restoration of a former church, which had never been a restaurant before.

Speaker A: They great restaurants.

Speaker B: They do, because they're gathering spaces.

Speaker C: It's tricky over here because. So we have the bar that you're in now that's um, you know, 40 seats. We have 100 seat dining room next door. We have, have a 12 seat wine room down in the basement. Next, special events and then we have a speakeasy below here where we run a four cocktail.

Speaker A: They're coming for you now. They're gonna shut you down.

Speaker C: Yeah. So, um, and then, yeah, then we have a big patio. And so it, it is, it is a land. That's why we call it separate land. Yeah. Um, there's a lot going on.

Speaker A: What's cool too, because you can, I think it having space, different space within space that you can curate. And I'm sure special events is a big part of your, your.

Speaker B: Yes, we do a lot of.

Speaker A: Can people rent out the bar?

Speaker C: You can rent out the whole place? We have a few of those.

Speaker A: Have there ever been any weddings here?

Speaker B: Not weddings, but receptions and so forth? We've done a, um, handful of those, yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. Um, so what, five years from where you were, when Jamie comes on full board, you're delegating to AGMs and GMs, being the fire putter outer. You're focusing on brand and telling the story, promoting, getting out there. Um, five years of that. How did your business improve to be able to get to the point where you come do this?

Speaker B: Well, Haberdish just was super successful and I think we started to see that our, the talents on our team were rising. Colleen, our head mixologist, um, had really taken cocktails there to another level. Haberdish was getting not just local acclaim that we were used to, it was getting, you know, a lot of regional acclaim. Uh, it was in Southern living. It was, you know, getting. It got mentioned in the USA Today. Like these were all very new things and new feelings for us and we're like, oh my gosh, like we have something here.

Speaker A: How much of that had to do with your getting out there and promoting it?

Speaker B: Some of it was that I think it was also we're in a very friendly city as far as, um, culinary support. Our city through the crva, the Charlotte Regional Visitors Authority. They're kind of like the voice of tourism for Charlotte. They're very friendly towards culinary and um, that, that I think has been a big part too of like growing the culinary scene and having people start to look at Charlotte as a place.

Speaker A: Do they have budget for people traveling through, doing podcasts for lodging?

Speaker B: I don't know.

Speaker C: I think you just have to do it ahead of time.

Speaker A: That's my challenge. That's why I live in a camp. Camper because I don't know where I'm gonna be tomorrow.

Speaker B: That's. It's amazing.

Speaker A: But yeah, it's uh, amazing.

Speaker B: But yes, I think, you know, when we looked at this space, we both walked in here, you know, in the main dining room. We were like, oh my gosh. I remember the feeling of like, could this actually be our restaurant? Could we actually do something?

Speaker C: And we didn't want to mess it up and we didn't want to mess up each other. Let's not mess this place up. It's amazing.

Speaker B: It was so beautiful. And so you'll see a lot of those touches in the design, especially uh, next door in the, in the main dining room. One, um, of the things that is most noticeable. People look at the walls and it's kind of. A lot of people say it looks like suede up on the walls, like some sort of ah, a wall treatment or wallpaper. But truly it is just the remnants of pulling drywall off the wall. But when we walked in the building the first time we saw it and we're like, it's so amazing. Can you imagine having chandeliers in there contrasted against, against those walls? And to us like, it just really started to come to life now. It was a true four years, um, and a lot of like uh, changes of the, the building, the um, what the, the zoning of it, the parking issues, things like that that had to be worked through with the landlord in order for it to be um, able to take a restaurant tenant. But eventually it was able. We began.

Speaker A: So it was a four year process.

Speaker B: So that was a four year process. And then we began build out. Of course, um, it was in Covid. So this is very special to I think both of us because of all the things that we went through to make this place happen and open. Um, anybody who opened a restaurant or a business of any kind during COVID probably knows, or just there were just different challenges. You know, it wasn't like just the same old issues. It was radical.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah. From a, from a finance standpoint too, Haberdish was like a big part because we brought on a number of investors at the time. And guess what? When you start paying investors back quickly, um, this is a good deal. They get eager. Yeah, they get. Especially at the interest rates we pay. They get. They're eager to help out again and maybe now they're bringing their hedge fund partner with them and um, you know, somebody else and yeah, so we were able to kind of finance some and grow our investor pool.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think this is a huge lesson is that, ah, how do you scale? By not going out and trying to scale, but by putting everything into what you're already doing better. And when you do that, that's when the money knocks down your door. You scale.

Speaker C: It still doesn't knock down your door, but you can eventually. We still have to ask these people answer, yeah, like, yeah, so different game.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I think that, you know, just, it's like, uh, it's that inside out growth. It's putting the energy in and the out happens.

Speaker B: Love him saying that. I talk about that all the time with my kids. You always start with yourself.

Speaker A: 100.

Speaker B: Always start with yourself.

Speaker A: You have to elevate yourself to create the void below you, to create opportunity for others.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Um, and that just keeps going right. The more you elevate yourself, the more opportunity, the more you attract onto yourself. Um, so we're along that line. Where is your elevation today? So since Supperland, uh, uh, that was a four year process of getting open.

Speaker B: Y.

Speaker A: You opened in 2022.

Speaker B: So we opened in on March 3rd of 2021.

Speaker A: Oh, man.

Speaker B: So it's right chat GPT is like

Speaker A: one year off on all.

Speaker B: It's okay. Yeah. So it was one year after Covid. So you can imagine all during that year we were doing the build out and Supperland like we did at Haberdish. We really made a lot of homemade touches. And Jeff and I do all of the design ourselves too. And this being two buildings and multiple spaces, there was a lot of design work to do here. So, you know, curating the wallpaper. All these tables are built from, um, North Carolina hickory. And, um, we did all these brass inlays as well. We now have two people on our team who do woodworking with us as well. Um, so there's a lot of handmade touches around. Uh, and our plates are a great example too. You know, this was. We kind of laughed that maybe it was just the boredom during COVID But, um, we designed, uh, 11 different patterns for our plateware here. So there's four dinner plates, four B and Bs, three serving trays, and then we've got like a little coffee tea set, um, as well. And we worked with an artist over in London. Her name is Lou Rota. And, um, she had. I had seen some plates that she had made for anthropology, and I started stalking her on Instagram and reached out and said, hey, would you ever be interested in making a plate line for a restaurant? And she jumped on the project and created these beautiful plates. That are all inspired by southern gardens, Birds, insects, foliage. And um, we love how they turned out. They, you know, they have kind of like a little bit of a grandma's garden type of feel to them.

Speaker A: And it's another story you can tell.

Speaker B: And they. Yes, exactly. And for us, yes, it's bringing to life the idea of communing around a table here at Supperland like we did at Haberdish. It's all, all family, uh, style dining. So you're all eating off the same plates and scoop and serve to your, your plate. You know, our steaks are all served sliced so that you can easily put them on your plate.

Speaker A: I love that.

Speaker B: And share.

Speaker A: And one thing that didn't come out, when you're talking about Haberland, I think it's really important. Sorry, Haberdish.

Speaker B: Our names are weird.

Speaker C: There was since, since April Fools was not too far away. There was a, ah, spoof in our local paper where, what was it? Um, Supper Dish.

Speaker B: Supper Dish.

Speaker C: They wrote a story, restaurant opening, called Supper Dish. And they were just mocking us back and forth and telling this story. You know, it was, it was awesome.

Speaker B: Our names are weird, but yes.

Speaker A: Well, they stand out. And there's so many restaurants. So you got to come up with creative things to be.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: Uh, but the point I was trying to make is, I think with the, not only to all the points that you alluded to with, with the uh, the family meal type approach of bringing people together, that's how we've always eaten. That's, it's what feels more natural. I bet the throughput's probably better too, because you're not plating a bunch of little dishes. You know, like as much as you're just kind of, you're putting, you're putting volume out on big plates. You can get food out faster. And I, I, I would imagine people probably order more too. Cause they're thinking we're all sharing this,

Speaker C: that, that there are, there are pluses and minuses. I think that maybe when you're ordering, when each person's ordering themselves, they probably are ordering more. Um, our wait staff though, tries to do a great job of making sure you're ordering the correct amount. Um, and obviously it takes up more space, um, on a table. I think we do a great job of mise en pausing stuff to also share. A lot of places that say they want you to share don't necessarily give you all the accoutrements to share really. Well, they don't give you all the spoons that you need or tongs.

Speaker B: And so literally, when we create the dishes on our menu, we have a spreadsheet, and it will say the name of the dish, the description of it, and then it'll say how to mise the table. So it's basically, um, you know, Brussels sprouts. Get a spoon. Um, the steak gets a tong. This, um, dish gets a pour over followed by a spoon. So we have how we're setting up the table so that the guests can enjoy as soon as that food is arriving to the table and they're not having to use. Figure it out Uncle John's spoon for this and share Kevin's knife for this.

Speaker C: You know, like, the food runner sets the food down, and the server should have already put those things in place. So they grab that, they put the steak down, and then they grab the tongs and put them on the steak plate for you. Yep. And, yeah, just. And that's. It's in our culture, and it's in every tasting. We're not just tasting food when we're going to tasting. We're looking at how the dish looks, and then we're also. What do we need to tell the. The food runner? What do we need to tell the servers? And. And then how do we mise and pause the table so that people can share?

Speaker A: Well, got it. So in the timeline right now, the year is 2021. Rolling into 2022, we're only four years away from where we are today. So I kind of want to bridge the gap of where you are today in terms of your point of evolution. Uh, the point of your, like, where are you in your. Your personal elevations as restaurateur? And what does that mean for your greater group? So, like, where are you today? Like, what has changed in the past five years?

Speaker B: I think one thing for me is just the idea of impact. And maybe that comes with getting older or more mature, more seasoned, um, not just in this business, but in life and feeling, um, like maybe it's not just about, you know, having restaurants and making money and all that stuff, which, of course, you need to do those things to have a healthy business and everything. But how do we have impact? And I think for us, that that comes in a few different ways. One, it's creating a workplace that. Where everyone is welcome and. And people feel heard and, um, and taken care of. And, you know, it's not perfect, so don't feel like it is. You know, we've got 330 people, and they don't all get along, you know, and but it's something we try to create that kind of a culture. I think we're also trying to have that impact, not just with jobs, but creating, um, career paths for our team. So as long as we continue to open up new places, a, ah, sous chef doesn't feel capped. If the executive chef stays in place, that sous chef might have an opportunity to apply to be an executive chef at a forthcoming restaurant. And then another way too, that I feel like the impact piece has come into play is through the salvaging, restoration, reuse, um, of old spaces.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So you can see that here at Supperland. This is a mid century church preservation. And again, it's that storytelling a little bit, um, of Charlotte's history because we're in a city where, you know, it's new, there's a lot of new people here. Um, people knock down things left and right to build anew. And, and I get that there's a lot of greatness to that too. Um, but if we can be a part in preserving some of that history for Charlotte, I think maybe it doesn't matter in our lifetime, but it will matter for our children. It will matter for their children that there are some places around this town that are sprinkled in that are older and have those stories. And so you see that, you know, this is an old church, Haberdish is an old, um, general store, uh, Le Luya hall, our, the restaurant we haven't talked about yet, also in an old church. We've moved a building to be able to salvage it from demolition. So those kinds of things have, I think, become, uh, a big part of what we do.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think my mission, you know, as I, I've been trying to keep a really open mind with this podcast over the past 13 years. I don't have the answers. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know anything. And really just trying to make sense, sense of like what is like the right way and realizing over time that it's a bit, it's a, it's whatever you're trying to do. Your way is only your way. And you have to figure out what works for you. Pulling from all these lessons of what other people have done. Right. Uh, but to your point, impact, one, uh, thing I'm worried about and one thing I'm being more kind of if I'm drawing a line in the sand, what side am I on with this podcast? I hope to transform the industry and I want to see fewer 100 plus unit operators and more 10 to 20 unit operators. And I think that that will make the world a better place precisely because it's the independent local operators that care about preservation and making an impact in local communities. And the thing is, I think when we get too big, we just can't care enough about all the people we're responsible for because there's just. The, uh, ratio is off. There's a point of, of dilution behind every great restaurant's great person. And as you scale, you're pulling and diluting from that source of greatness. And I think there's a balance. What that bounce looks like, I think, is by probably case by case, but I do think that there's a certain point of no return where no matter who the you are, you're not that special that you're going to make all these people in the, the communities are in better.

Speaker B: Yeah, and I think, I think you're right because restaurants are in a really unique position because you've got, you know, 90% of the money that comes in goes right back out to the door. And a lot of times it's straight out to the community. So it's of course your teammates that work with you, but then there's also, you know, farmers, food suppliers, like all those local jobs, like you are truly threaded into the community like very few other businesses get the opportunity to do.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And so it is, I don't know if it's a response, responsibility of restaurants to do, you know, do that. But you inherently are a big part of the community and that community's economy,

Speaker A: I mean, that's what the restaurant industry was born out of. It was literally public. Like, uh, in America, the restaurant came out of the public houses. Like that was. Those were the first restaurants in America. And when you were, when we were colonizing the Americas, if you wanted to start a town, the first thing you needed to do was to create a public house, because that's where it all happens.

Speaker B: People would commune and like, that's what it's about.

Speaker A: I think we've lost sight of that. And my poor listeners probably hear me say that every other episode.

Speaker C: I'm sorry, but it's one of the

Speaker B: few places you can go and commune and maybe have completely different political views or religious views or whatever. And you're all coming together around a table and to talk and listen and you know. Yeah, in a day, a day and age of so much digital communication and, you know, AI and everything is. It's still a very real thing. You know, we, we talk about. We don't feel like, our team's jobs are in. In danger because somebody needs to make the food. Somebody needs to bring the food to the table. Can't bring the food to the table or, you know.

Speaker C: So, uh, I think that, um, the DNA of our restaurants, too, these old buildings, that they really do have this unique sense of place and are a part of the neighborhood. So. So I think the public house thing has changed, but I think that the DNA of being a neighborhood spot and being grounded in your location is still a big part of what we do.

Speaker A: So I know we kind of skipped right over the rebranding of your original concepts.

Speaker B: Well, we didn't totally, because it opened a year after Supperland. So supperland opened on March 3, 2021. One year later to the day, March 3, 2022, we flipped crepe Cellar over to Ever Ondelo.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And so you did not lose your place at all. We're right there.

Speaker A: Well, yes. And then do we have, um. Uh, Leilulu? I can't.

Speaker B: Leilu. Yeah, sorry.

Speaker A: Thank you very much.

Speaker B: It's kind of like the word hallelujah.

Speaker A: Bear in mind that I have six interviews a week. Yeah, yeah. Like, between all my guests, I cannot keep track of all the restaurants.

Speaker B: You're fine.

Speaker A: So I guess where. Where is your business today in terms of, like, hierarchy? Like, lay it out there. Like, you. You are at the top of the organization, or depending on how you view it, the bottom. Right. Serving everybody above you. If you're inverting the organizational chart, um, what are your titles today?

Speaker C: I, um, mean, what do we.

Speaker B: You're probably, like, coo, cfo, C, F,

Speaker C: O, C, O, O.

Speaker A: You have a little CEO visionary. You're rare. Like, a very small percentage people can do all those things.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I'm also the culinary director.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: He runs a lot of hats.

Speaker A: But you don't, um, you don't. You're not cook. You're working with the executive chefs.

Speaker C: So I'm not cooking, but I'm designing. Or we are designing. Every single menu. Executive editor and the menu, you know, even. Even somebody as skilled as Colleen, who does an unbelievable job and gets all this acclaim. Um, I'm over at our house, like, testing cocktails, trying everything. So, like, every single thing on every menu has to get approved.

Speaker B: Unless it's, like, a daily special.

Speaker C: Except for a daily. But anything that goes on a menu anywhere is approved by me.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker A: And, Jimmy, you're cmo.

Speaker B: Yeah, I just got that one hat.

Speaker C: Cmo. She also, though, uh, probably her biggest job is managing me. I think what's added rocket fuel to us is Jamie just making sure that I do all the tasks that I'm supposed to do in a timely manner. I think a lot of times before, um, she was on board, I could just kind of pocket veto stuff and not move things along and slow roll stuff. And she.

Speaker A: She makes us executive manager.

Speaker B: So I have. I have my list, and then I have my list list on the side for Jeff.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I just need to, like, nag him about it.

Speaker A: I'm begging my girlfriend to do this.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Like, Courtney, please, I need you. So she's like. That is like her, like. Like, if. If you want to make her day, like, talk about the calendar. Like, hey, babe, want to schedule something in a few months out? She's like, yeah, I do.

Speaker B: She loves the scheduling. I love her. She sounds amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: We have just. We have an incredible team, though, that's operating a high level. We have a chief restaurant officer, which kind of. I have a whole bunch of things under my purview, and she is like, my partner in making sure that all of those things get done. And then she also runs all the kind of, um, employee personnel stuff and, um, as well. So you.

Speaker A: You use a very specific term like rocket fuel. Is that EOS language? Are you EOS practitioners?

Speaker B: He doesn't know what that means.

Speaker A: The entrepreneurial operating system. So in Gino Wickman's book Traction, he talks about, uh, eos, the entrepreneurial operating system that has since spun out into a whole bunch of other books. But one of the books that they talk about is the visionary. Uh, the name of the book is called Rocket Fuel, and Rocket Fuel is the visionary integrator, uh, relationship of somebody who can see things and dream it. But then there's that person that makes it happen every day that creates the priority list. Okay. Okay, That's a great vision. But how the hell are we going to do it? First, we need to do this. Second, we need to do this, like, so it's like a COO CEO relationship. So I think you have a little coo.

Speaker B: We're kind of like. I feel like we act a little bit of as an octopus because, uh, there are certain things that he's weirdly better.

Speaker C: We do a lot of that. That stuff together. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's like. Like with tables, like, I will sketch out designs for what I want our tables to look like. So, um, you know, certain patterns or looks to them or whatever. Each of our tables, they kind of have different looks. The ones that we're looking at right now have these brass lines through them. Other ones have more of a striping in them and in the other dining room. And. And so I will draw them up, and he will kind of be like, okay, I think we can do that. You know, this is how we'd probably get this done. You know, let's pull that in with this. And so I think it's a lot of, like, just working almost as one entity. You know, a big part of my job, um, that comes in and out is concept development, and that stuff is every. We do all of that together. Yeah. But it's more the development of the concept. We don't use.

Speaker A: Um, that's a project in itself.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: We don't use an outside marketing agency, and we don't use designers, so we do that ourselves. So all of the, you know, picking out, curating stools, tables, the menu design, um, you know, here at Supperland, there's all these little sketches on there. I actually drew all of those little drawings, and then we turned them into little, um, icons that we could use. So it's kind of like. It's very much an artistic, creative project. And once a restaurant is open, my job, you know, as far as as, you know, creating the restaurant, you know, that ends. And I put on my CMO hat, you know. But, um, the. The creation of a restaurant is something we very much do together.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: With his culinary expertise and business expertise and more my, like, creative.

Speaker A: The, uh, power, though, of being so close to the story and then being able to share the story, you know, being a part of it, I think that's very powerful.

Speaker C: It's got. The story has to be holistic. You can't just go throw an ad on TV for the marketing of a restaurant. It has to be. How does the silverware go with the menu that you've developed? How does the chair match the decor? And it's, like, really holistic how everything goes together and it needs to be integrated, which is kind of why we do it ourselves. And the whole story is encompassing.

Speaker A: Right. Um, so if you're at the top of the hierarchy, like, what are. There are GMs below you? Is that the. Or is there, like a coo?

Speaker C: Yeah. So, yeah. So we have a chief Restaurant officer that kind of is, like, up where we are, um, doing a lot of, like, operations, um, more hr, um, helping with operations, finance. She wears a lot of.

Speaker A: Have chief restaurant office.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So CRO.

Speaker C: And that's. Yeah. It's just because she wears too many hats to kind of Put ah, a, you know, a description on.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: Um, and then, um, we have been operating with um, two area directors where we kind of have all the restaurants, um, in Noda and here under an

Speaker A: area director is Nota, the original town that everything was built up.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. And this town is Plaza Midwood Plasma.

Speaker C: And they're, they're not, they're not too far away.

Speaker B: And then, um, so she oversees Noda and Plaza Midwood. And then we've had somebody else overseeing um, Leluya hall, which is over in the Dilworth neighborhood, and new projects, but we're kind of reorganizing. He had to leave our team recently, which has been a tough, tough thing. Um, but he's off to exciting things for himself. He needs new directions, so that's good.

Speaker A: So CEO, CEO, cmo, cfo, all of you, that those are all the hats the two of you are wearing? CRO.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Direct report. And then you have area managers and then for each location you have general managers.

Speaker C: So we have a general manager and an executive chef, um, at each place. And then, um, and then we have a ah, AGM or two at each place depending on how big it is.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: Um, or some, I guess some of them don't have an agm. And then we also have, um, our original exec chef is kind of there to support all of our other exec chefs. So no longer cooking in the restaurants but culinary director. Um, no more, um, more czar of costing and more on top of food costing. Basically making it so our exec chefs can focus on their day to day jobs and handling a lot of stuff in the background of entering all the invoices, making sure their food costs are where there should be, talking to them about issues, reporting things to me that um, you know, maybe somebody's a little messier than they should be or someone's got too much overtime. Um, that kind of. So staying on top of the. Supporting the exec chefs but also staying on top of all the numbers that the exec chefs control.

Speaker A: Got it. Um, so is it safe to say you're at this point in your career where you're.

Speaker C: I don't think it's safe to say anything in the restaurant industry.

Speaker A: Right. Well, you're at this point where like even in my, my notes I have, in my notes I have like past. And then it's like what were you doing before restaurant number one? And then I have it listed as one to three units and then it's four to 10 units and then it's wherever maybe it's 12 to 20 units and. Or 20 or more, depending on who I'm talking to in a given day. But then we get to present. Right? Where are you today? What does that look like? Let's unpackage the organizational structure. So I guess what I'm curious about is what is the future? What is your vision? Like, what is the goal? What are the targets? Where are you trying to get to?

Speaker C: Um, yeah, so I think we're in a really cool spot today where we've done a whole bunch of crazy projects. We're in a bunch of old buildings. I think we try to challenge our staff with something really hard with every single restaurant we open up. And we've gotten a lot of good validation from that. So we're at a place that. The place we're in now. Top 10 new restaurant from Bon Appetit made the, you know, um, uh, number 15 for us. Yeah. M. 15 for Esquire. And then, you know, we're also. We just got. There were 12 Michelin awards given in Charlotte, and we got four of them, so three plus Colleen.

Speaker B: Geez, do the math.

Speaker A: Jamie, keep up with all the accolades.

Speaker C: Yeah, so. So I, uh, mean, I think we're. We're really, you know, proud, and it's nice to have that validation coming. And I think that's kind of pushing us to let. Let's keep trying to do a better job. So I think we're trying to improve all of our places that we have now. And then we have some really cool projects that we're involved in, um, currently, if we moved a building for the first time, which was super crazy and fun, um, and exciting. Um, so this is our Leluya Hallujah. It's next to Leilui Hall. So it's in Leila Hall's parking lot. It's called. It's going to be called Wyatt Super Fine.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: M. It's three floors, um, plus a basement where we put a kitchen. Um, we're building a rooftop solarium on it. And, um, it's going to be really cool. We're having fun with it. And then we have this other project of. We're trying to do a commissary for our restaurant group to centralize, um, all our prep and really build on creating efficiencies and, um, making, you know, profitability, like kind of a structure right in our thing. And so that is, like, mind bending. There's. There's just a lot of things, things of how are we going to transport things different places. How are we Going to set everything up. How are we actually going to save money? What cool things can we do everywhere? Because we're doing it. And then what are we missing in our software stack to like execute this

Speaker A: really well, kind of building the house before you move in it right now. Which is the point I was going to make because you, you're at this point like uh, I listed out 1 to 3, 4 to 10, 11 and more. You're pushing that, that firewall 4 to 10, 10, where at that point in my experience, at each one of those points of evolution, 1 to 3, 4 to 10, 11 more, you have to change, you have to fundamentally change your organizational structure to get to that next point. So you're kind of at that point right now where you have to start thinking about like what's the next layer? But are you content where you are with seven to eight or like are you trying to get to 20 different concepts in and around Charlotte?

Speaker C: Um, I don't know if we've pushed that far. I think we're really happy with our. We have an awesome plan for the next two years. And um, I think we are open, I think we're, we're kind of open to some new, new ideas. We have some. I would like to start opening places that um, don't have the kind of capital upfront cost that we've like relocating an entire building. Yeah, like, like doing, like doing, doing those things of. I'm kind of burned out and spent on that. Um, yeah, so I think we've, we've targeted some places, um, that hey, if these three or four places go under, um, those, those landlord know that if they have a lease that's going to be signed the next day, so call us and we will take it. Um, so I think we're, we're, you know, kind of finding some of those spots that we could open, you know, pretty cheaply that we like really neighborhoods we really want to be in and be a part of. Um, and then we're just, yeah, we're exploring some other, some other ideas and, and seeing what's out there. But right now it's kind of, we have our next two years planned and then um, I also want to see what happens with this commissary because you know, we, we, we could go a lot of directions and I think our capabilities are going to be different and we'll be in a different place that we could do.

Speaker A: What is your tech stack today?

Speaker C: Yeah, so, um, I can go through that list it real quick. Yeah, so we got, we have we have talk on our reservations. Um, we, I think they, they do a great job and we do some innovative stuff in our reservation space. Um, then we go to Toast.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: Um, I think we have a big gap right now on ordering and par levels. Um, and we don't have a really good tech stack there. So that's what we're working on. Um, and then we inventory, um, inventory. We do a great job of inventory and costing. It's just really that ordering and par level spot that we're missing that we're really focusing on now. Um, so if you have any tips there, I'd love to hear them. That's what I'm focused on. And then um, from a accounting space we use Razi, which um, back office is uh, kind of I think what they're shifting their name to. But they're, they're pretty full suite. Um, accounting wise of kind, um, of payroll, food, um, costing. Everything is um, rolled up into their kind of accounting suite. So I think they're, we're really strong on that part um, as well. So it's just kind of this little spot in the middle.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: Um, yes. Scheduling, seven shifts, um, tip house for tip sharing and um,

Speaker B: Slack for communication.

Speaker C: Slack for communication. That's always, that's always a good one. I'm trying to think what else, what else do we have in there?

Speaker A: Um, so I um, mean Talk, now that we have it all out on the table. Um, Talk just recently purchased by Resi. How do you feel about that?

Speaker C: Um, I just went to the chef assembly in Philly and um, TOC was a sponsor there or Resy was a sponsor there and their tech tech um, guys were there and I feel pretty confident that they're going to keep our back end um, as a piece of. So we're pretty confident that basically Resi is just going to start adding a lot of the features that Talk had that they don't have. Um, and um, some um, specifically like

Speaker A: the sliding scale, like more events based reservations.

Speaker C: Um, well we actually, we charge for reservations so we do a $3 charge per seat. Um, which uh, for us is a great system to make sure that people show up for their reservation. It's kind of a small little guarantee

Speaker A: for us skin in the game.

Speaker C: Um, and um. Yeah and I think it's worked really well and also um, in our places and some people do complain about that um, kind of buy in but you don't have to have a reservation. So it's really meant to if you want a reservation or it's Your wife's birthday, like, pay. You know, pay the $3. And if you want to. If you want to go wait in line and grab a drink at the bar and hang out for an hour, hour and a half on a Friday night, then go for it.

Speaker A: Like, how many people are out there that are like, the planners, like, like my girlfriend, for example, that's gonna make a reservation five months out because just in case, I want to make sure if we're there, we go to my favorite restaurant. But shit happens in five months, right?

Speaker C: Yeah, and that's. That's the thing. I don't.

Speaker A: Oh, I forgot about my reservation. I'm gonna cancel that today to.

Speaker C: Too many times. Too many times. You're getting ready to go out and your babysitter doesn't show up.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And then you're getting charged $50 a person to not go to dinner, and you're just, like, so frustrated. And so this way, it's kind of. If someone pays $3 and their babysitter doesn't show up, they're just. They're sending a message to the restaurant saying, hey, my babysitter didn't show up. And we say, oh, that stinks. We're sorry, you guys can't make it tonight. Well, we'll find you another reservation, and we're not going to charge you again.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And we'll try to help you out. Um, but we're not charging you the. The $50.

Speaker A: Right. But you were. You're removing that person. That might just be, like, doing it for convenience and. But they don't want to spend. It's enough of a hurdle to, like, they weed out those people.

Speaker C: Not making reservations in multiple places, going, I don't know where we're gonna go.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So anyways. But back to Talk. So one of my. I feel pretty good on the tech stuff and that they're going to keep what. What we need to, you know, keep running and how we're. We're kind of moving things along, but we have. One of my biggest worries, though, is I. I love that on Talk. We own our reservation profile. And that when you're going to Supperland and if you can't get a reservation, it's not trying to sell you a reservation at. At the restaurant next door.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so that's kind of my biggest reservation with Resy is that they are going to be so intentional. What's reservation with reservation? Yes. Yes. Reservation. Yes. System. Reservation with Resy is that they're going to move to this model where they're pushing Us, um, where they're selling seats at other restaurants because. Because deep down Resy doesn't care where you go eat. I do.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Um, and I would rather not be there to. Because I'm full market to some other restaurants.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: I. I love that talk is kind of. That's built into there.

Speaker A: It was engineered by restaurant tours.

Speaker C: Yes. And that, that's engineered into their DNA and I don't know going forward how that's going to look. So I hope they still give us that option.

Speaker A: I mean I probably am not doing myself any favors with my. I've been saying this is like a thing like do I say this because what if you know, I want to like get a sponsor that's open table or Resi someday. Um, I get really worried that there are two options, real options for reservations in the entire industry. To me that's ludicrous that there are only two options that um, are owned

Speaker C: by Wise is uh, a is another one on the periphery that we've used before.

Speaker A: Which one's that?

Speaker C: Wisely. Um, and I think they're really solid and, and do what you need. But I, I think you are getting to this um, point where the mission critical stuff is for a restaurant is reservations and POs are. And so there's no vibe coding those things and making them go away. You not yet. You have to have.

Speaker A: Give it a week.

Speaker C: You have to have those working 100% of the time.

Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. Um, but it's just like the, the fact that you know, you know, American Express owns resi, uh, booking.com owns OpenTable but are in deep, you know, relations with MasterCard and I think Visa maybe or maybe one of the other. I can't remember which one it is top my head. But just in my mind it's just like we're creating a situation where consumers are more loyal to third parties and reservation platforms are third parties and they, they're going to go with their habits are tied to their. Their you know, digital habits. Like so like that. To me that, that has so much influence like that marketing has saturated itself so deep into our industry where that the, the consumer behavior hinges more on what app you use than on the relationship of the restaurant.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Like they'll go to Open Table and see what they can get as opposed to going to the restaurant to get a reservation.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, to me I think that we have kind of let the. The industry get to this point where the tails wagging the dog. Um, and I don't think we. We're Just too busy in the four walls of our restaurants every day to know what's actually happening in the ecosystem around us. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker B: Well, I don't think you're wrong. I mean there's, there is like always like you go, if you just go on OpenTable, you're going to get all these suggestions that does not benefit the, the operators themselves. And I don't know where all of that's going. I think we're, you know, we're kind of in this place right now. This summer is when um, Talk switches over to the Resi brand. We just don't know what that offering is going to look like. So like with everything in this business, we're just going to have to take it as it comes and figure it out. And if it is something where, as Jeff was saying that it's offering a lot of different, you know, restaurant options out there, we may relook and see if we can find something better. We did have a lot of luck using wisely for many years. Um, so that could be an option. But we have really loved the Talk system. So it's a little bit, it's a little bit concerning.

Speaker A: Yeah, Talk was my favorite and then I heard they were being purchased by Resi and I was like, no, no, Nick, what are you doing?

Speaker B: That's American Express.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, so okay, um, we are at time. I'm realizing that we're actually over time. I know you have a one o' clock and I want to respect that. Uh, I, I, you know, just touching on what you shared Talk. Uh, uh, you know, Toast number one pos recommended on the show, seven shifts, number one labor management in terms of number one most recommended. Uh, and Slack can't say enough good things about those platforms. I am more interested in talking about Tip House. If there's anything you want to say relative to Tip House because I think tip pooling is a big part of doing what we could be doing better, I think, think and uh, that's a good tool to use. What has your experience been like with Tip House?

Speaker C: Um, I personally don't use tip house. My GMs do it. So I, A lot of the other platforms I've actually like set up and had interactions with and that one I have not had a great deal. I just know that um, sharing tips is like embedded in our culture.

Speaker A: How long has that been the part of your culture?

Speaker C: Um, ever since we opened up Haberdish. We restructured the what bartenders do and had them become more part of the Team. And we always want the servers and bartenders to be more of a team situation. Um, and a lot of that is a bartender's never going to have the sales that a server is going to have. Um, especially if you want those bartenders to make drinks quickly and efficiently. Efficiently, um, for everybody. Um, so we try to, we try to just kind of make it one, one big team. And I love when I see our bartenders running drinks out to tables for servers and kind of that back and forth. We have buttons for the servers that they can just hit and a bartender will go to the table and talk to them about any cocktail, any liquor, any liquor we have. It's almost like, hey, if, if you need a psalm, you can have the somm come over. If you need a cocktail question or liquor question, then you just have a bartender come over. So we kind of, you know, trying to separate those things. So it's been a big part of what we do. And it's, it's a, it's a complex thing. So I see where, you know, something like Tip House is really helpful because we don't. We are running it with Excel sheets and um, it's a bad idea to run.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And they m. Have some people's payroll processing too. With Excel sheets. Yeah, it helps with all. Yeah, with all those things.

Speaker A: So what did your team do to sell you on Tip House? Like why did you move to.

Speaker C: Um. I mean, I generally understand that running things on Excel sheets. I built the Excel sheet we were using. But sometimes people change a cell or any of those things happen. So it's much better to have an app. It's much better to have somebody that's up on all the labor, uh, rules and those kind of things and let us do of kind, kind of more complex, um, tip sharing. And I think it's great the transparency that they offer. I think any one of our servers can go in and see what their tip was and why it was divided up in a certain way and you know who's getting what because we do it kind of on a per shift, um, basis of those tips. So it's pretty cool with the transparency.

Speaker A: I've really enjoyed today's conversation. I don't want to wrap it up, but I want to respect your time.

Speaker B: Been fun, a lot of fun.

Speaker A: I've really enjoyed it too. Anything we haven't discussed up to this point, something you were hoping would come out of today's conversation?

Speaker B: You know, I, I don't think there's really anything you dove in it so well um, but I, I think, you know, something that we always talk about is, I think maybe that impact piece too is encouraging young people who are interested in the restaurant business or food that, you know, all of it's possible, it all, it's all difficult, hard and all that, that. But like, like a lot of businesses, you just have to stay on your toes. You just have to keep fighting through. You just have to keep persisting with things. And there are innumerable examples of how we've just flat out had to shift. And probably this summer we'll have to shift. When it comes to reservation systems, we have no idea. Um, but just constantly knowing that you need to evolve and change and that through that you can, you can create

Speaker C: yourself a really great rest fast as possible.

Speaker A: Right. So one of the closing questions and thoughts I like to ask is this idea of evolution. Um, how do we evolve intentionally? How do we, like, what's that picture of the future of the industry that we can manifest if we pull in the same direction? That will be a better industry if we go that way. What is that for you?

Speaker C: That's, I mean, we are big on kind of energy manifesting all that stuff. And we keep up with, with our goals, our goals for the company and also just our vision of what our company looks like in, um, building for our family and, um, what this group

Speaker B: looks like is that stepping back and m looking, you know, not getting so caught in the day.

Speaker C: I'm a big fan of, um, we're not always going to make the right decision, but putting energy and thought towards the decision puts you in that space to kind of move yourself in the best direction. Like, I think we might not have picked the right oyster fork at a number of our places, but I will tell you that we've spent an hour looking at oyster forks.

Speaker A: Oyster fork is better than no oyster fork.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Make a decision.

Speaker C: Yeah. So. So it's, it's not just like Willy. There's nothing. That's just Willy nilly. We are trying to be thoughtful about as many things as we possibly can.

Speaker B: And I think that's. As you look at the evolution of the restaurant business, I think, um, unifying farms with restaurants and chefs, you know, those are things that, like, if we can all have that vision, you know, that that kind of impact can be huge. We work with a group here, um, that is working to bring, uh, to have to purchase farmland closer to the city within an hour so that, that generations to come will have, uh, fresh produce that's closer to the city. Yeah, that kind of thing can have a huge impact on us.

Speaker A: 100%. Uh, those are the conversations that need to start happening. Or happening. Excuse me. Those are the conversations that need to start happening. But I think the reality is it's getting harder and harder for good people to do good work because it's hard to compete at the cost of doing good work. Isn't just cheap. Right. Uh, so it's just like, well, how do we. What do we do? You know? So I don't have the answers. I think these are good questions we should be asking. If you ever get a solution, you want to come back on the show, let me know. I'd love to amp amplify your voice. Um, a couple finishing questions before we officially wrap up. The finish line is inside, I promise. What, uh, is one thing about your business? A value process, A system that is uncommon and makes you truly unstoppable?

Speaker B: I think teamwork probably, like, allowing other people to do their jobs and do them great, um, and not be, like, on their backs all the time. I think that's been one of the biggest things that has worked in our favor to grow. Um, if Jeff and I step back and let others do the job, they can rise, and we have more time to be more visionary.

Speaker A: 100%. Do you want to add it to that, Jeff?

Speaker C: Uh, I mean, I think it's just, uh, weird now. Afraid to dream and not afraid to take on hard things and crazy things, and people like that, people think aren't great ideas.

Speaker A: Not afraid to dream. I love that. Uh, the mission statement, again, is to change the world through inspiring, empowering, and transforming the restaurant industry. But behind every great restaurant is great people. So how have you personally transformed. How are you better people today than the people you were when you got started?

Speaker B: I think personally, I'm a more open person. We work with a lot of different people. Um, and that, I think, has been one of the biggest blessings to me is to have so many people that I care about who come from all different walks of life, from all over the country. And I adore them, I love them, I respect them, and I love to get to be in a place where we can create jobs and opportunities to allow everybody to thrive. And I think I didn't look at things like that. I think I just looked at as a restaurant, and I think now there's. There's so much more to it.

Speaker A: I love that.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think. I think for both of us, that was one of our biggest worries. If we, you know, come from, um, going to business school and Having corporate jobs, and then we're kind of now hanging out in, you know, the subculture of hospitality. And, um, how are we going to mesh? Um, we don't have any tattoos. Um, how are. How are we going to fit in and make this our family? And it's, uh, really, really come together really well and gelled together. Awesome. So I love it.

Speaker A: The last question before we have you call somebody out.

Speaker C: This is his third last question.

Speaker A: I know. We're almost there. If you got the news you'd be leaving this world tomorrow. All the members of you. You work in your restaurants would be lost with your departure, with the exception of three pieces of wisdom that you could leave behind for the good of humanity and your legacy. What are those three pieces of wisdom?

Speaker B: Three pieces of wisdom.

Speaker C: Um, you start. So three pieces of wisdom for the restaurant industry. Okay. Um, I would say that, um, have a buttoned up system that you are looking at everything weekly. I think that. And be, um. Two, don't be afraid to change because this business, you need to change quickly. And three, think big. Really big. Try to do really awesome big things.

Speaker A: Do you want to piggyback on that?

Speaker B: No, I think, I think you nailed it, but, um, I think it's also just. What? Um, yeah, I think you nailed it, but just, I think that the teamwork thing is just, uh, a huge thing.

Speaker C: All the people are super.

Speaker B: Be able to work with others.

Speaker C: Are you gonna come? Um, we have some steak over there. Little steak table tasting today.

Speaker A: I mean, shoot. Twist my arm.

Speaker B: Steak taste.

Speaker C: So we, um, we cure all of our steaks here. Okay. And so we're really trying to exact our process of like, we, we now can drop our, like, salting by like a tenth of a percent. So we're. We're really trying to dial in so that, um, you know, so we're weighing all the steaks, salting them to a certain level. And, um, so we're really trying to.

Speaker B: You didn't have to.

Speaker C: We're really trying to dial it in, but m. So we should have some prime steak over there. Thank you so much. So let's go eat.

Speaker A: Yeah, let's definitely go.

Speaker C: He's trying to get him to wrap it up. Yeah, we gotta tell me. He has one more question.

Speaker A: Well, the only last thing is, like, who do you respect and admire? Who, who else should I do this with? Uh, whether that be in Charlotte or North Carolina or greater beyond, who do you respect and admire? Who should I get on the show?

Speaker B: I mean, we've always admired the, The Danny Meyers and Will Guidaras, you know, that have, you know, been huge leaders in our. In our restaurant community. Um, there are people like that living that maybe on a smaller scale, not as known, but here in Charlotte, I mean, um, Sam Dominic, I think, is a great person here in Charlotte as a chef.

Speaker C: He does, he does a great job

Speaker B: with the local, I think Kyle Johnson, um, who's a local person here who does Community Matters Cafe.

Speaker C: He's. He's awesome. Um, obviously Paul Manley, who we talked about a lot, and then, um, our friends at Fresh List.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, so there's a local farm company here that has, ah, you know, 200 farms between, um, Charleston and Asheville, but most of them are based in Mecklenburg county and, um, near our restaurant. And, uh, they do an awesome job. Beautiful.

Speaker A: I think I got a good list. Thank you very much. And how do we connect with you if we want to? I know you have a book out. Congratulations. We didn't really get to get into that.

Speaker B: Um, thank you. Yes. The book's called 11 Tables. You can find it on Amazon or wherever you buy your books. And our website for our company is tonydandilbrown.com and you can link to all of our, uh, restaurants from there.

Speaker C: And, um, if you're a wonderful sous chef and want to relocate to Charlotte, please hit us up.

Speaker B: And you can follow us as well on Fork and Hammer, which is, uh, a PBS series that you can also find on Create TV and probably on YouTube soon as well. Don't forget your podcast and our podcast Jeff and Jamie feed, so you can find that on Spotify or wherever else you listen to your podcast.

Speaker A: And we will do our best to link to all those things in the show. Notes. This is where I say I cannot do what I do without people like you carving two plus hours out of your day to sit and let me ask all these intrusive questions. Dig deep into your life and your business and, uh, I. I'm literally so grateful. So this is where I say there is no questioning. You are unstoppable.

Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Speaker A: There's another episode wrapped up here at Restaurant Unstoppable. Special thanks to our guest today, Jeff and Jamie. And if you want to connect with Jeff and Jamie, they are going to be live in our community on July 27th at 11am Eastern. Would love to have you join that conversation. And it's my goal to get every one of my guests to join us live in the network. That's the idea. That's the vision of Restaurant unstoppable. Going forward, it's finding these leading restaurateurs across the country, giving them a platform to stand in for the next generation of leaders, to connect with those individuals, to share this inspiration, to share the knowledge, and to move our industry forward, uh, to transform the industry. And I've been sitting with that mission statement a lot lately. Inspire, empower, transform. But the question is, what transformation do we want to see? And the transformation I want to see, The. The mission, the core of the mission, is to see more owners in less restaurants. I think there's a lot of shitty restaurants out there, if I'm being honest. And we need fewer restaurants that are better and that have more distribution of equity, or I should say, better distribution of equity. And I think if we want to. Everywhere I look right now, what I'm hearing is that the rich are getting richer, the middle class is fucked, and we need to do something about it. The only way to bring back the middle class is to make people or create a way for more people to own more things. We need more people to have assets. And I think the way out of this is to teach restaurant owners how to give opportunity, provide opportunity to good people, and to spread out the wealth. And, yeah, I know all restaurant owners are struggling, but it's bigger than the restaurant industry. And I feel like the restaurant industry has so much influence to make change. So we have to lead by example. And that's where my heart is right now. And I think that's how we transform. The industry is teaching people how to be better owners and creating more owners and teaching business models, ownership models that are more equitable, and bring back the middle class. If that resonates with you, then please be a part of our community. Head over to restaurantstoppable.

Speaker C: Com.

Speaker A: Live to be a part of this conversation with Jeff and Jamie. In all future conversations, learn, uh, from the best. That's it for today. Thanks, guys. We'll see you next time.