Episode 674: "Let's Just Choose Optimism": Dan Simons on Failure, Fear, and Finding a Way Forward

Speaker A: All right, what is up, y'? All Will here with Schedule Fly. And this is the Restaurant Owners Uncorked podcast brought to you by us here at Schedule Fly. Super simple web based restaurant employee scheduling software backed by legendary customer service, human customer service I might add. Uh, and all at a very fair price point, uh, probably unwisely. We've never raised our prices in 19 years since we've been doing this. So simple software, great service, very affordable. If you are one of the over over a hundred thousand restaurants and hospitality businesses still on paper or Excel or something like that for your scheduling, do yourself a favor, go to schedule fly.com, do a 30 day free trial. Easy peasy, you can set yourself up right there. Um, look y', all, you'll save yourself thousands of dollars on labor. You will save your manager many hours of headaches and stress every week and you're going to give your staff something that staff these days, uh, really expect, which is their schedule at their fingertips and all the communication at their fingertips all the time. So schedulefly.com 30 day free trial, monthly pricing, no contracts, no setup fees, no cancellation fees, none of that bs. Uh, if you are on another scheduling software, you might be super happy, uh, but you might have seen your prices go up, up. And um, while we say Schedule Fly is simple, it is not basic, it is a very robust scheduling platform. Labor cost projections, um, shift notes, document storage, everything you need right in one place. So check it out. ScheduleFly.com okay, let's get to restaurant owners uncorked. And um, today is a wonderful opportunity to speak to Dan Simons. I have heard of Dan, I have read about Dan, but I've never spoken to Dan. So Dan, thank you for taking the time and if uh, you wouldn't mind, just introduce yourself.

Speaker B: Well, thanks for having me on your show. Uh, I'm a restaurateur, entrepreneur based in Washington, uh, D.C. area. Uh, married, three kids, three boys, 22, 20 and 17. Um, I think in our business, if we don't think about our family first, it's so easy to get lost in this business. So I'm 56 years old. I've been doing this for a long time. Spent my first 10 years out of college working for other people and then in my early 30s, joined forces with a former boss and colleague, Michael Vakurvich. Started our own restaurants and over the last 18 years have grown that to. We have about 1500 employees, about 100 million a year in annual revenue, full service restaurants. A couple years ago we started a full service catering and events Company. We have our own distillery, we have our own bakery, which we really just wholesale to ourselves, but it's our own production. We roast our own coffee. You know, we make our own booze. And my biggest capital partner is the, uh, North Dakota Farmers Union. That's what makes the company special and unique. Is that, yes, it's, we need profit, yes, it's a real business, but our primary capital comes from, uh, a group of American family farmers that thinks long term, that cares deeply about supply chain and who grows and produces the food and who owns the trucks and who owns the land. And thinking about farmers as the backbone of America, and that is what is the backbone of our founding farmers restaurant group.

Speaker A: Wow, dude, that is. Oh, you just gave me all kinds of good questions to ask. Um, you know what I want to start with, um, if you don't mind, let's start with family. I'm, I'm just a. About the same age as you. My kids are 22, 19 and 17. Um, and I gotta tell you, man, it's, um, I mean, you've been doing this as you're through your kids early childhood and formative years. Um, that's a tough thing to do. Building a restaurant business and building one the size and scope of what you have while also raising a family. Talk a little bit about that. I mean, I have found that to be challenging myself just as a, you know, as a software entrepreneur who probably frankly has a little bit more flexibility in my schedule than you've had. Um, talk about how you find the balance in doing that, Dan. And I ask that I, in the sense that that's a real issue that I like to talk about stuff like that on this podcast because, you know, when you're running a restaurant, it takes so much time and energy and thought and focus. And I know that you have great partners, I know that you have brought in great teammates that you've been able to delegate to over the years. But at the end of the day, you know, it comes back to you and your, your partner and there's a lot of responsibility you carry, while also, I'm sure taking your responsibility as a husband and a father, um, even more seriously. So if you wouldn't mind, just share how you've been able to find that balance. I think that's tough for a lot of restaurant people

Speaker B: and probably rather than the word balance just for me, and again, I share this like, this is what has worked for me and sometimes doesn't work for me. So I'll share my story whether or not it Works for anyone else. But my approach to topic is really comprehensive integration. I'm not trying to be a dad separate from being a restaurateur. I'm not trying to be a husband and a, uh, boss at work. Um, I don't separate the things. I'm just trying to be me with a set of, you know, priorities, obligations, um, obligations I choose, obligations that are thrust on me, you know, that whole set. And so I have always just focused on communication and letting the people around me know where I am, what I'm doing, why I'm, um, doing it. And so that opens me up for feedback or commentary from anyone that I have those obligations to or those connections or those relationships with. If they feel like I'm not performing for them the way that they want, I think it's their obligation to speak up. That's. That is just my belief. I don't buy into, um, that responsibility requires mind reading. Uh, but I do think it comes with an obligation to communicate. So from the very beginning, you know, my wife, Susie, I'm just lucky we have a good relationship. We, I think both had plenty of other relationship experience. We, I, uh, guess had the judgment to choose each other. Um, maybe mine better than hers. Um. Um. And so, yeah, people say, well, didn't you miss so much? You know, we were opening restaurants while Susie was, you know, producing children. Like, I can't even say we were having a baby, right? Like, the woman does all the work. And so. But we signed up together to be entrepreneurs. We lived in her mom's basement for three years. We moved in there with one kid, thought we'd be there for a year while we started the business. We had another kid while we were there. We. She had another kid while we were there.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker B: Um. Her mom was like a third parent, really. Still is. And so that's just me to say. It wasn't about balance. I knew I was gonna miss stuff. I also believed that, um, your spouse might remember how many diapers you change, but your kids do not. So I didn't focus on feeling some guilt or obligation to what my kid was never going to give a shit about. My obligation was to Susie. And I felt like when I was at work opening restaurants, I was doing it for us and for the family. And I would say, I don't look at it like I missed anything. I chose where to be. And I still managed to coach Little League sometimes. I still managed to be there for what once the kids deemed things were important, you know, I'd stack, rank my priorities and what they thought was important, if it lined up with what I thought was important or just their belief in importance, I would prioritize it. And having a great business partner, building a team, delegating, trusting people, those for me are woven deeply into the fabric of, uh, finding what other people call balance. But what I just think of as really effectively woven together fabric with all of these threads and understanding how other people weave together. I mean, Will, I'm sitting here having this conversation with you. Uh, my restaurants and my catering company today will serve, I don't know, eight, four, you know, three or 4,000 guests today. And I will not do one thing directly to accomplish that. So while in the early years with one restaurant, it was different, it was much more hands on directly. We started building a team from day one. And so that's how I feel like Susie and I have gotten here. No divorce. We like each other now. The kids are at an age, as you know, where the kids at this point, they're just my friends. Like there's not a lot of parenting going on around here. We hang out together, we do stuff together, you know, or they're off getting high, whatever, you know, like, like it ain't perfect over here, but that's how I look at the balance topic.

Speaker A: I love it, man. What, um, one of the things I, and I typically ask this first up, ah, um, you were doing something else for 10 years and then you and a partner got in and started this business. Why? What lit the, um, fire for you to get into this wonderful, crazy, wild world of restaurants and hospitality.

Speaker B: So it's really work wise, all I've ever known. You know, when I was a teenager, I didn't know anything about restaurants. We, as a family, we ate. My folks are from Europe, grew up north of Boston, but we ate dinner at home every night. My mom cooked, my dad cooked a little bit. Um, dinner was, food was an at home thing. Restaurants were maybe a special occasion, someone's birthday once a year, something like that. Then I got to college and I started working at the college bar. And I was a bar back and I was a dishwasher and then I was a doorman and then I was a bartender. And so the restaurant business just got in me, uh, during college and I figured out really quickly that I loved being at the party, but I loved kind of facilitating the party. Like, I did like to drink, I did like to party, but I really liked pouring the drinks. And I realized everybody else goes out to, you know, party at night in college with money in their pocket. And at the end of the night, they have no money in their pocket and they're sort of hammered. And the after party isn't great for them because they're broke and they're a mess. And I'm like, wait, I can be at the same party during the evening. I can leave with money in my pocket, and I can show up the after party with my head on straight and focus on that social aspect, which is my priority. And I just fell in love with the business. And then I started working for TGI Fridays. One opened on my campus in 1990. And I just learned all the jobs, the front door. I was never a server, actually. And then I got behind the bar. I was at exp. I learned the kitchen. And then Fridays offered me a job in management when I graduated. So those first 10 years after college, from 20, from 22 to 32, you know, I climbed that corporate restaurant ladder. Manager, kitchen manager, general manager, blah, blah, regional VP of ops, et cetera. I went from Fridays. Uh, I started, uh, at Cheesecake Factory when there were six restaurants. So I got to see a little company nobody had heard of except people in Southern California and spent almost four years there. That's where I met my now business partner. He was my boss there. Then I left, and I did six and a half, almost seven years at Etsy's Market and Bakery in, uh, Dallas, doing that first store with Phil Romano and growing that business. And so then at 33, joined forces with Mike Fukurvich, started our business. So I, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to be an inventor, actually. Like, that's what I had in my head. I wanted to create a product, sell it. But I fell in love with the restaurant business, and it, I guess, kind of fell in love with me. Like, it, uh, I kept thinking, what am I going to do when I grow up? And I sort of still ask that now. I just ask Claude, what would I do if I ever grow up? And, you know, Claude and I have interesting dialogue. So that's how I, that's how I got into ownership, is on that foundation of, you know, doing all these jobs on the way up.

Speaker A: Okay, gotcha. Well, you did invent something. I mean, you, you've invented a lot of products that 4,000 people will, will consume today in some way. Um, you invented all kinds of things. Uh, so when you started your first place, did y', all, um, how did you fund that? Did you, I, I, that's something I'm always curious about, how people get, get started back then. Maybe it was an SBA loan. People have different ways that, you know, there's different ways to fund these things these days. But, um, it's hard to get a restaurant off the ground and get it

Speaker B: funded when you're first starting friends, family, and fools, of which the two biggest fools were me and Mike. Um, and I should clarify that my first restaurant was not our first Founding Farmers. The first Founding Farmers was a success. And 18 years later, it still really performs as a restaurant. If I told that story, I mean, that's just fucking boring. The real story is our first restaurant, um, was called Coopies. It was a fried, uh, chicken place, small, 3,400 square feet in the suburbs, well outside of Dallas. That's where we were living at the time. And Mike and I funded it with our savings, with our personal signatures guaranteeing bank loan, with our personal signatures guaranteeing the lease. And then with about an additional $800,000 in capital from family, former colleagues, friends, some networking. Man, Will, it was such a great restaurant. We were so proud of it. We worked, you know, we developed the brand and we did all the stuff. And, you know, this is like, whatever, the early 2000s, I guess, 2005, um, you know, this is before AI, where, like, creating a company is like, there's just a lot of work that goes into it, let alone recipes and all this stuff. And we, we got it open and, you know, 18 months later, we were closed, out of business, broke, uh, with the landlord suing us. You know, that's where I learned about what's lease escalation. I'm like, well, we failed. Can't we at least just. I know we owe the rent. Can't we just keep paying it? No, no. You default on a lease, the entire 10 year deal that's due escalates, and you now owe the whole thing. Today. It's like, what we owe. Huh? Huh? How much money? And we're being sued for it personally. And, oh, this is what a personal guarantee means with the bank. And wait. The only people that we don't legally have to pay back are the investors, the ones who we know personally, who believed in us, who loved us, who, you know, thought, how can these guys, after all this restaurant experience, not be successful? And we had to say, yeah, here we are with all this experience, and we failed. So that was the first restaurant store.

Speaker A: Oh, man. And then. And yet here you are.

Speaker B: What, so what happened, um, to distill it down? There's two primary lessons I take from it. One, we, uh, were not financially strong enough to get Into a business that can be unpredictable and really requires financial strength to survive. Because restaurants require time to survive and restaurant time is absolutely money. So you can have a restaurant that would indeed be successful on some trajectory. You can't afford the trajectory. So one, you know, we had a 20% contingency on our budget. That's what I had like learned or people had told me. And I just had no understanding of why big companies hold so much cash. You know, I understood Wall street and I understood a little bit about big business. And I always thought, like, man, these companies hold so much cash. Cash is like, it's the blood bank. And sure, if you're going to bet you're never going to have an accident and you don't need a transfusion, I guess you're okay. Except restaurants often do need transfusions and almost every single business reaches some near death moment in its trajectory. So we weren't capitalized enough. And then my second lesson was we were unintentionally arrogant regarding thinking we knew what the diner, let's just call them the customer, in this case, thinking that we knew what the customer wanted and that in a sense we knew better than the customer. So we had, uh, studied all these sort of fried chicken, uh, restaurants, you know, in and around Texas where they'd been. And we were like, wow, we can do this better. Look at the chicken they buy. Look at the, you know, we were sort of looking down our noses at the quality of the chicken, the quality of the iced tea, uh, literally the lack of systems in the business. You know, all of this stuff though, like, we know, man, the green beans are out of a can and the liptonized tea is full of toxic God knows what. And these diners are loyal and they love this. They deserve so much better. Let's do it. Let's take the lessons and let's just do it better. And the guest, pretty much from the beginning, some guests loved it and some guests were confused. You know, this, it, this I see tastes funny. Well, you know, it's all natural. There's no chemicals in it. The tea. And they're like, well, we just think it tastes weird. Like, uh, okay, but they're uh, like it tastes weird. They're like, why the green beans so green? Like, that's. What's with the bright green green beans? Oh, well, you've been eating the green beans out of the can. These are fresh. We're getting these green beans from the farmer's market. We, and I mean will, the only word is just some combination of like, my arrogance and my. And my ignorance. Uh, and, you know, I know arrogance comes sort of loaded with this, as if it's intentional and people who are arrogant or whatever. No, but it's. It's just you. When I didn't know how to look in the mirror, and I was just ignorant. And so ignorance and confidence is arrogance. Now, had we opened that restaurant in a different location and understood the customer and actually taken lessons from those restaurateurs and those guests, look for a market that maybe understood what we, uh. And was actually asking for what we were doing. Well, I know that it could have been successful because all the recipes and the mindset and the brand approach is what is actually inside Founding farmers. We just did Founding farmers in downtown Washington, D.C. and the guest rewarded us for the elevation of those things. And so, you know, I am. It's funny, I don't talk about it that much, but, like, I feel the pain from the failure of that restaurant. The pain we took, the people that we let down, and the fact that I, uh, We, Mike and I, it failed because of us. And so I ask myself every day, what am I getting wrong today? Where's my arrogance today that is going to burn me and then burn all these people that I, you know, care about? And you, uh, know, I'm trying to look in the mirror, find those blind spots, seek for that communication, because I know that there is stuff today that I'm getting wrong. I just don't know what those things are. And so that's why I wake up a little scared every day.

Speaker A: Wow, what a. What an incredible lesson. And I mean, congratulations for taking what you learned from that and applying that in a way that, you know, you've. You found a formula for success through that. Dan, uh, if I'm listening to this and I'm thinking about starting my first restaurant, one of the things I'm immediately locking in on is how capitalized am I. How. Like, if you're. Is a rule of thumb, how many months of working capital should I have before I. If I'm being careful and thoughtful in allowing for, you know, the black swan events and the things I can't plan for.

Speaker B: So when I say my answer, I'm going to quickly qualify it. I think you need a year of working capital. And if anyone's immediate thought is, well, then I can never raise that money, I'll never open the restaurant. Yeah, don't, because you're going to lose the money that you don't have that you're borrowing, and then you're going to have to pay it back. And by the way, you will eventually dig out of that hole. We never filed bankruptcy. Uh, but nowadays with the bankruptcy law, you don't ever outrun your debt. I don't think that that's really a thing. And so if. If needing to have a year's worth of working capital makes a project feel impossible, don't do it until you realize that. You know what you'd figure out after you failed and you went into this deep, dark debt, depression and hole, you know what, you'd climb your way out of it. It would just take you time. So you're going to spend the money anyways. Why not figure out how to earn it, save it, bank it proactively. So open your restaurant a year later than you planned because you will increase your odds of success by some substantial magnitude. And the general independent restaurateur's mindset, which certainly I had, and I still hear from folks that I mentor. And look, I love entrepreneurs. I coach all sorts, I support all sorts. I try to invest in all sorts at all ages. I'm not one to take the wind out of any entrepreneur. Sales, I do believe, and I say this to anyone, you can do this. Whatever the this is, you can do it. Like, there's nothing special about anyone who comes before you that has done it. You can do this. And if you want to mitigate your downside and increase your odds of success, develop more capital that think of like, oh, we'll figure it out. We just won't spend the money on this. We'll bootstrap it. We'll whatever. You know what? Yeah, you're gonna do all that anyways, but then there's this chance that you're gonna need a cash infusion so you don't have a source for it. You die. And then you owe all the money and you ever have a chance to generate profits. So I'm not saying don't open a restaurant. I'm saying open it with the highest odds that mitigate the known downside. And when I say you can do this, because you're no different, you're no less adequate than anyone that comes before you. You're also no better than anyone that has come before you. And so I know, like, this has been certainly my arrogance, and it has still bit me several times and I presume still will, even though I fight against it, of thinking, oh, I could figure that out, we'll do that better. Yeah, they're like, you know, we started a distillery because we're like sort of, how hard can it be? We got our asses kicked. We burned a lot more capital than we thought. We started the catering company harder than I thought. And so I'm on both sides of this. You can do this. And it's not going to go according to.

Speaker A: Entrepreneurialism is quite a roller coaster ride. Um, and you're going to live on, on both sides of the dark and the light and sometimes every day. Um, the distillery. When did you start the distillery?

Speaker B: Um, I should be able to tell you that date. It's right in the logo. But, uh, ten years ago. Okay.

Speaker A: Was that to sell yourself your own alcohol or was that. Why did you start a distillery?

Speaker B: Two main reasons. One, the, the mission and the ethos of our company is to advocate for and support American family farmers. So when we can buy more American farmed product, we, uh, do and we do that. We're too little to be a real market maker and move the needle on, on anyone's production with our purchases. But we've always felt like we could influence the industry, we could influence the guest, we could influence other restaurants. And so that is part of our mindset with everything we do. And then, uh, we were and still are looking for, and I would encourage everybody to do this, to look for structural cost advantages. Um, while when we started the distillery, the full service restaurant business model still really worked. We were looking for a major strategic advantage. Right. Beverage was profitable, sales were high on alcohol and growing. We could create unique points of difference for our brand. You could only get our booze with us. We sold to a few other craft cocktail bars in the beginning just for sort of credibility. But I realized that I could put a premium product in the. Well, I could never use the word well or rail again to represent quality. I could use it operationally, but I wouldn't use, you know, like rail drinks. And sort of what that means, I think, to the guest or the staff. And so those were our motivations and we accomplished that with the distillery. Um, you know, my vodka is as good or better than, definitely as good or better than Tito's without any of the additional. Who knows what is in those, you know, massively industrially produced products. But we've blind taste tested our stuff against people who love their vodka brand. But we know vodka is just think what it is, right? By definition, it's supposed to be a clear, tasteless alcohol. So people are loyal to brands. So we're now able to pour a cocktail with our own vodka, our own gin, our own rum, our own agave. Spirit. And I'm delivered to myself half the cost of a bottle of Tito's. So structural price advantage, competitive quality, and a, uh, unique story. And we're honoring our farmers by focusing on an American supply chain, an American glass bottle, an American cardboard box, et cetera. So that's what got us. Those were our motivations. And it works. And man, am I glad we did it because I have serious questions about the full service restaurant business model. And if I have those questions at my volume, you know, total restaurant volume, um, that I know the whole industry has got to have those questions, let alone city by city, and where are the wages and where's the talent? You know, the end. Where are the headwinds? And you know, the industry has its challenges. And who's on GLP1s and who doesn't drink? And why aren't we allowed to sell THC beverages? Like we're precluded from this entire marketplace as restaurateurs and chefs, which is just fundamentally unfair from my perspective. Um, so I'm grateful to my team that, you know, was able to create and perpetuate the distillery. So regardless of how helpful that is to me, I think for every restaurateur out there just challenging the supply chain and the structural costs that we operate within, it's. It's worth trying to innovate in that space because for what served our industry well, for really since the chain started, but, you know, let's just call it since the 60s. So for, you know, 65, six and a half decades of a really reliable business, uh, model. Because business models connect to, uh, legislation, they connect to societal trends, they connect to the economic realities, the micro factors, the macro factors, the employment base, immigration, um, a lot of that has changed. So we have to innovate, we have to be inventors. We have to tap into and do things different.

Speaker A: You mentioned questions about the full service business model. Talk a little bit about them. And you've just addressed a lot of that in a macro way. But what are some of the biggest headwinds? And you mentioned GLP1s. You mentioned declining alcohol sales. That's all part of it. What do you think about Dan? I mean, I look at, you know, the NRA said 42 or 43% of restaurants didn't turn a profit last year. Um, I don't know how much better that's going to be better or worse this year. But, um, it is an extraordinarily challenging, challenging time. People opening restaurants, they'll always open restaurants, but man, that traditional full service Model is, is. It's like, it's just kind of every angle now. Labor cost, um, of goods. Gosh, if you serve beef, you know, beef prices have gone through the roof. The, everything is, inflation is absurd. So, uh, and consumers are, you know, we're facing this sort of K shaped economy where, you know, gosh, maybe if you have a high end steakhouse and you're serving $125 ribeyes, then people aren't, you may, you don't have to put the price on the menu. But then you've got, you know, the rest of Americans are grinding seven days a week trying to figure out how do I take my family of five out for a meal without spending two, $250, you know, at a regular restaurant.

Speaker B: You know, well articulated with the question will. And there's two ways we can approach this answer, which by the way, this is me coaching myself right now. We, uh, can approach this answer with a, uh, heaviness and an apprehension. Um, and indeed that, that would be right. There is a heaviness. This is that glass is half empty. I can make a case that's absolutely true. But it is fucking worthless for us to approach this topic with a, uh, fatalistic. Glass is half empty. So this is me coaching me to remind myself, you know, like, where are we in this? I've always believed that if you do good work today, it means you have earned the right to come back tomorrow and do good work. So I hold myself to that and I'm like, okay, I got a shot at tomorrow. Okay, this is exciting. And so yes, the business model is changing and I would say that an economic view is that the restaurant industry is being hollowed out in the center like the economists say our society is. You describe it as K shape, right? So if you're rich, it's up and to the right, things are good. And if you're sort of everybody else, it's down and to the right. And you know, one goes up forever, which is good, and the other hits a bottom, which is, is bad. So what do we see? We see the high end restaurants. I look at the restaurants, uh, I've been, I always go to a lot of restaurants. But what it's been opening in the D.C. area, man, there are some really good, uh, small, full service, high end, very expensive restaurants opening. Uh, you know, 100 seats, 80 seats, 60 seats. The vast majority of society cannot afford to eat there. I cannot afford to eat there on any sort of regular basis. I, it's a little easier for me to Eat there. Um, maybe I'm friends with the owner. That always helps. Uh, I get a tax write off because it's a, you know, dinners are a business expense, etc. But those restaurants are not going to feed a lot of Americans. People are not going to experience those things. Yeah, some, um, like major food reviewer is going to write about them and they're going to win culinary awards. That's awesome. I love that part of the industry. I admire it. And you know, 90 plus percent of Americans will never step foot through the door. So the high end is growing and I can see why people are, why operators and investors want to shift to the high end. I think there is a real business there, there and real roi. And then there's why we see so many people go in limited service. Um, and you see really talented chefs, especially in some of these major markets on the west coast that say, you know what, I'm going to operate just as well as I always have when I won my Michelin star. But the guests are going to order at the counter and they're going to pick up the food and I'm going to get back to doing it in a way that's profitable and that I can love and enjoy. So, you know, I've got restaurants with between 250 and 350 seats. I gotta meet America, you know, where they are. Uh, value hospitality, good experience. And so when people, uh, when a third of adults within the, whatever the age range is, are on a GLP1, I need to understand that. What is, what does it mean? So I'm on a GLP1. Uh, I'm not on it just because I want to understand how my customer feels. I'm on it for some of my own psychological reasons. It's been great for me. But I told you earlier that I made a mistake of thinking early in my career that I understood the customer. So, you know what, you want to talk about GLP1s, great, I'll talk about them. Um, I'm fucking taking it. While it doesn't mean I know what everyone's experience is, I can at least see that topic to some degree through the eyes of the guest. I actually stopped drinking alcohol seven years ago, six years ago when I got my concussion. Fortunately, after five years of recovery, fortunately for me, I recovered and I started drinking alcohol again because I enjoy drinks. Um, I'm 56, I don't drink that much. Man, I love a great cocktail. So when I think, what am I doing for the guest? You know, what if I'm going to drink a cocktail. It needs to be fantastic if I'm going to go to a restaurant and spend X. And frankly, at any price point now, I think every customer says, wow, this is expensive. Like if you go to five guys, if you go to Chick Fil A, it's expensive. Uh, any restaurant, it's expensive. You go to the high end. I mean, I'm looking at a, what they call The Queen cut 12 ounce prime rib. It's like $114 at a restaurant I went to last week in D.C. and I'm thinking, holy shit, who can afford this? Does it come with a massage? You know, and like three physical, like physical therapy sessions or mental therapy, like what is included for the value? So I am really focused on the guest experience value. What does the guest really want? And I think I can thrill guests that are on a glp. By the way, it's different in your first six months than your next six months. It's also probably different to some degree for every single person who takes that medication. I want to celebrate that journey with the guest and show them that they can enjoy my restaurants. You don't drink at all? No problem. What I'm going to say to those guests is you do drink, you just don't want alcohol in the drink. So I've tried to shift the vocabulary. So when our servers say, like, are we drinking tonight? Uh, I've lost that because it implies alcohol. Now it's like, let's get a drink in everybody's hand. What's your pleasure with alcohol without alcohol? You want to explore what are the flavors that you like? All of our drinks are crafted. All of our drinks are natural. Whatever we put in them, we've made it ourselves or squeezed it ourselves or infused it ourselves, et cetera. And so for me to, I take that lower alcohol trend, which is real, there's a bunch of factors going into it. And I just think, yeah, I don't care if you drink alcohol. I care about items per guest. It's the only metric that matters right in this thing is I. So I need a drink in your hand and then I need a second drink in your hand because I need food on the plate. I need appetizers, entrees and desserts. I need drinks in your hand. Round one, round two, round three. And ideally for us, you buy a box of chocolates to go. And maybe if you're an alcohol drinker, you take a bottle of booze to go. Items per guest. So I gotta meet the guest where they are, what do you wanna shop? What do you wanna buy? Like what are you willing to put in your hand? And I have to menu for that. So that's our mindset of how we're dealing with the lower alcohol trend. And it's exciting. I gotta innovate. I could show you on a trend line, the decrease in alcohol sales, the loss of profit margin, the impact on the business. And I can talk about it in a heavy fuck, what are we gonna do way. But that's just riding that thing to the bottom. We're gonna, we're gonna ride this thing back up and thrill the guests. And I have a few answers so far, but not a lot like I'm, I'm getting bloodied. This is the entrepreneurial kick in the teeth. But I think the team really has us on the right trajectory.

Speaker A: What are some of. Okay, um, GLP ones. You said that it's different the first six months and then it changes. Talk about that. I mean, I know a lot of people are on these things, but I don't know, I don't know a whole lot about them.

Speaker B: Um, so both in my experience and then anecdotally in my conversations of talking to people and from talking to my doctors, and I'm pretty deep into this both from, let's call it a psychological perspective, uh, and like the non psych but medical component.

Speaker A: What do you mean psychological perspective, Dan?

Speaker B: So, um, I, since I was in my mid-20s, I struggled, I have struggled and still struggle with eating disorder. So in two ways. Body dysmorphia and then uh, effectively just uh, recurring obsessive negative thoughts around my own consumption decisions. You know, I'm fat, don't eat this, do eat this. And it really, you know, had become, you know, it could become pretty overwhelming, super distracting to me at times, trying to focus. You put a plate in front of me and we're trying to have a meeting and I can just like lose my focus on what we're talking about and get obsessed with what's going to happen with me and that food. And of course being a restaurateur, not an ideal setting for that. So I've worked on it over the years, you know, on and off in therapy, et cetera. I've had a, finally found out an amazing therapist helped me a ton. And then we uh, tried this GLP1 for the psychological benefit relating to what now everybody calls food noise. And I'm so glad that this word food noise is getting into the vocabulary out there. For me it was like having a really negative talk Radio station on in my head the whole time. Uh, and the GLP1 has just turned that radio like effectively off.

Speaker A: Food noise.

Speaker B: Food noise. And it's something that for people who don't suffer with this, you cannot understand it. Like, uh, this is something you could sympathize but not empathize. It would be. You just can't understand it unless you have it. It's more common than people realize. People have it and don't even have a vocabulary around it. Don't even understand like, what is this psychological component. So if there's anyone out there who's like, wow, I, like, I regret what I ate and then I tell myself I'm not going to eat this, but then I do eat it and then, you know, on my drive home from work I'm like, I'm not going to eat when I get home. But then I do eat and then I have regrets. And like just this like soundtrack going on that sounds like a voice in your head that is food noise, at least in my definition.

Speaker A: Okay, got it. And m. What, as you, I've seen this trend and now you're, you're living it. What are some of the things you do as a restaurateur to account for that? Do you, you, uh, know people are sharing plates now, are you serving smaller portions but pairing them with the cocktail or how do you, how do you manage through that?

Speaker B: So one way that I'm doing it is before the guest arrives, which is, I'm talking about GLP once. And so sometimes, and I put all my psychological, you know, struggles out there because it's, it's. I believe it helps other people, it helps me and it helps others. So I've done that for years. I talk about it. I did a TED talk on, on you know, kind of business and um, mental health in the workplace. So by me talking about it, I know I can make those diners feel more. Those diners who hear me talk about it on social media, in interviews, et cetera. Oh, it's like, wow, this is a restaurant that is, has, uh, a restaurateur that understands the topic and is experiencing this. So one is like, hey, come feel welcome. The other thing is ensuring that as the staff that our servers, bartenders, the whole front of the house staff, you know, the. I, uh, was certainly raised in chain restaurants where the upsell and the add on was part of the training. You know, it's how we drive, check average, etc. Um, I have released a substantial amount of that from my mindset because it's one thing when I make you aware of something that you can add on and I'm trying to sell and you win and I win, and that's great. It's another thing where you may be feeling slightly self conscious or slightly digestively unwell, and it's like you don't want to eat more than you want to. So instead of like pushing, uh, more, we're asked, we're telling the guests like, oh, let me know if you have any questions about portion size. If you want to adjust anything, I can do that for you. This travels really well if you want to take it to go. So by proactively sharing vocabulary like that, a guest who doesn't care those words, they don't even notice them. Like, you know, uh, you. But for a guest who's like, well, I wanted to order the, whatever, the prime rib, but it's, you know, 12 ounces. I only want six ounces. Yeah, great. No problem. Hey, let me know if you want me to, you know, do anything unique with your preparation, separate out your food for you. So especially with our, with our top performing servers, we work on these lessons and I'm figuring out where does this resonate? So those are a couple of my thoughts about sort of before the guest arrives. And then just in the hospitality of embracing what a guest may be thinking. And it's the same approach with alcohol as opposed to just like talking about the featured cocktails and talking about these things as if everything is alcohol. We lead right away with some version of let's get a drink. In everybody's hands, these flavors are delicious with or without alcohol. Um, you just, you tell me the flavors you love, and let me tell you how we craft it for you so we can proactively overcome some of the. Because a lot of the guests show up with the mindset of, I'm not going to drink. I don't want to overeat. A lot of people on GLP1s, either they don't have the desire to eat or what they're learning is if they eat and they get full, they get some version of, you know, nausea or stomach distress. So they don't want to be placed in a situation. And so rather than making people feel like, then I'll just stay home. No, no, come to the restaurant. We got you. You know, like, you, we, we're not going to force it on you. We have all of these other offerings. We haven't yet made real structural menu item changes. I'm, um, not sure we need to do that. I Love it when guests take, uh, food to go. You know, it's like, you haven't finished and you want to take food home. For me, there's always value of like, like, that was so good. I'm taking half the cornbread home. I'll have it, you know, for dinner or for breakfast tomorrow. I, uh, think that we will evolve. We do have a lot of large portions. I think that those will evolve to continue to have. You know, when we talk about a third of Americans experiencing GLP1s, by the way, I do expect that number to grow. Um, in that case. Well, we're also talking about 70% of people who aren't experiencing GLB. Ones that don't want to give a shit and don't want to hear about it. So you don't want to walk into a place that's been like, GLP'd. I don't think you're ever going to see those, uh, those letters on my menus. I see the packaged goods folks doing this. I don't know, they're shameless. You know, they'll put any shit in any bag. God knows what's in it. Rip people off with value and try to get them addicted. So I have a lot of scorn for the processed food packaged industry. Um, and I'm thrilled there, feeling the pain from people eating less junk food. And that does seem to be, well, where the metrics are showing. Uh, there's less junk food purchased at the grocery store. I think restaurants serving good quality food and hospitality experiences are not. Do not need to suffer from the GLP1 trend. We just need to understand it and meet the guest and bring the hospitality with it.

Speaker A: Yeah, okay. Okay. Um, talk about. So talk about America's farmers. What's going on? I mean, such an important part of your ethos, the foundation of your ethos. How are farmers doing right now? I know that. You know, one of the things I've noticed as a consumer. Oh, gosh. Is the cost of beef has gone through the roof. I think maybe we are at an all time low of supply, if I'm not mistaken. And it's going to be a little bit of time before we're able to replenish that supply. But just talk, just big picture how our farmers are doing and your relationship with your farmers and what they're thinking.

Speaker B: Let's start with a relationship. Um, the American family farmers that we do business with, who owns our restaurants and invest in our restaurants, are wonderful, wonderful people who have stuck with us as business partners through thick and thin. When Covid hit, I called, um, the leader of the North Dakota farmers Union, who invests personally and then, you know, through the, the. Their, their collective of farmers, our biggest investor. And, uh, I said, you know, we're in trouble. Like, there's no one coming. The government's telling us we might need to close. He said, what do you need? I said, I, uh, think I need a million dollars. He's like, when I said, uh, you know, today, he's like, what do you mean? I'm like, like the sales of cratered, you know, I think where this is going, we're, we're on a trajectory at the time for, for, you know, dude, we're going to do $90 million in revenue. And, uh, I'd say, I don't know, maybe we'll do a million, 2 million, 3 million. Like, what are we going to do? We got 1500 employees and we got all our bills to pay, and we are going to pay. All our people are going to do our thing. So why do I tell that story when you ask me about farmers, the business partners you choose will determine your future in business. Hard stop. We chose, and they chose us to do business and their character and their commitment. So they ached me a million dollars. He said, when do you think you'll be able to pay it back? I said, I have no idea. He said, okay, let's go. So what does this tell us about American family farmers in this case, this one story? They think long term. They honor their word. They do what they say, they think multi generationally. And so the absolute, almost destruction of our business. Well, they pulled together the million dollars. We put it on the books as a loan. They didn't know if they were going to get it back, but they were committed. I believe that is how the American family farmer, the independent American family farmer. This is very different from corporate farming, but I believed what I just described in my anecdotal experience is the exact relationship that the American family farmer has with America. They say, I'm, um, in this, I'll keep doing this. You won't really pay me. All you want to do for commodities is pay less and less and less and less every year. My family will keep doing this, and they do keep doing it. And, uh, it is a difficult time and has been for American family farmers. And when people say, well, wait, we have our lowest total supply of beef, like, I think the total head of cattle in America is at its lowest in, you know, X, since whenever. And look at what people are paying. There must be so Much money there. Well, it doesn't matter how much you raise your prices if you barely have anything to sell. And by the way, the roller coaster that farmers, that we society, our government, et cetera, have put farmers on the roller coaster is terrible for people's mental health, for their business. So there's another farmer bailout in this recent round of federal stuff that's pending. Um, I wish our farmers didn't need bailouts. I can tell you they don't want to need financial bailouts. But when our government does things with international trade and domestic supply and American family farmers are not really understood. And when we don't do any, um, deregulation and we allow monopolies when three or four internationally owned pork processors control 85% of the American pork supply. If you're devoted to America as a country and you want to be a patriot, you should have a problem with that. You should support deregulation in food transportation and food production. So I am optimistic because our family farmers in America are resilient and committed. And I have apprehension because just in North Dakota, you know, I think over the last decade they're down from a couple thousand dairy farms to probably 20 family owned dairy farms. So, um, farmers are getting hollowed out in the middle. They're aging as average age. But there is a movement to young farmers and to people coming in. But what we need to do legislatively and as a society is support them, buy their products, understand, support the legislation and the political action that can actually, um, regulate and break up the monopolies. And let's get the foreign and even the American corporate ownership to be less dominant. I'm fine with all of the above. We need to produce a ton of food in America, but we need more of a balance. And the American family farmers, they need our support.

Speaker A: I wonder, you said that the young ones, I wonder about the next generation. That's the thing that, um, I'm curious about. Is the next generation of, of these family farmers, are they staying on the farm? Are they going to continue the business? And when you get from a thousand or twelve hundred down to twenty, some of that's, there's a lot of reasons that go into that. But some of that I think is that the, the next generation is moving off the farm. What do you see?

Speaker B: Yeah, some of that is the next generation is moving off the farm. But you know, societies change all of a sudden, wait AI jobs. You know, you get out of college and you think you're gonna move from rural farming to the city and all of A sudden you find out maybe you went to college in the city, maybe you studied ag, maybe you didn't. Uh, um, I think that farming is, will have its resurgence as um, some of the typical urban traditional white collar jobs are a little harder to get. Like I would imagine in your tech company when you think about growing and scaling, you can acquire more customers, write more code, service more customers. And I know that you're a big fan of like human hospitality injected in, but would it be right to say that you'll be able to scale your tech company with less people for the next 10 years than you would have imagined 10 years ago?

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: So maybe an upside here is, you know what, work with your hands and your heart and your mind in ways that only humans can embrace certain things. And so I'm thrilled that the trades are having a resurgence. I think that this does help farming. Um, we do see a lot of folks come back from military experience and be really missing the mission and that in ag and farming I have seen a lot of successes where our military veterans attach and find this new rewarding mission. And unfortunately we're going to have, continue to have more and more veterans that come back from, you know, seeing action, et cetera. So while I, you know, I m am hopeful for everybody's safety, there's a few things I think and I'm an optimist, but if we don't get appropriate regulation to break up the monopolies, uh, then I don't see how the American family farmer survives, you know, at the scale that we need them to.

Speaker A: Yeah, these things are, they have a way of, well, first of all, we can't predict what we can't predict. Right. So who would have ever predicted, um, GLP1s and declining alcohol sales like you just don't know. Um, but we also, who would have predicted that AI might lead to people just, you know, going back to look, we have 7 million or whatever it is, too few technical workers now. Um, you're starting to see people that are saying, you know, maybe college isn't the best thing. Maybe, you know, learning to be an H VAC contractor is. And we have such a shortage of those types of jobs right now. So these things are hard to, hard to predict. You're going back to the foundation of just American optimistic entrepreneurialism. And like you said, you can focus on the problem or you can focus on the challenge as being, you know, as, as um, that sort of stoic way of looking at the obstacle is the way. Right. Like, so this is the challenge let's figure out, like, the way to get through this, um, not to let it, you know, just hinder us and stop us. Um, and so I love that mindset. And to your point, you're probably giving yourself a little bit of self talk and a little bit of therapy through this, because all this stuff is never easy. I. Part of why I enjoy doing this is for the same reason, and part of the reason that people listen to this is for the same reason. Dan. I mean, you've helped a lot of people that are sitting there going, every time I turn around, there's some new thing I'm having to deal with now as a restaurant owner, and it's getting harder and harder. And, um, it's nice to know sometimes that there's others, you know, others in the boat dealing with the same issues. But this is also. You've also given some really wonderful advice today for people to think about. And what we try to do is pull out, you know, really some philosophical, but a lot of it's just practical, actionable things. I mean, your servers and your. Your team, you're. You're focused on items per guest, and you're clearly training them to have intelligent conversations and thoughtful conversations around how they phrase. How they set the guest up to have a conversation about. Okay. You know, I wasn't really thinking about drinking tonight, or I don't drink, but, man, that craft cocktail looks pretty interesting and is. You know, there's a lot of thought that goes into that as well. And I mean, I'm assuming those are high margin items as well. Um, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Will you talk this? I know we probably. I want to. Do you need to run right now? Because you might know.

Speaker B: I'm. Okay.

Speaker A: Okay. I just talk a little bit about your craft cocktail program. I hear some restaurant owners that are like, ah, I don't. That that's a phase or whatever, but I. I don't think it is. Um, and I've had some craft cocktails myself that I don't drink a lot. I'll drink. I'm kind of like you. I'll. You know, when I have one, I want it to be really good, but sometimes I don't really feel like drinking, but I wouldn't mind having something unique and interesting. And I have a craft cocktail and it's. They're. It's just great. The flavor profile is great. Clearly there was a lot of thought that was put into it, and I don't mind paying 10 or 12 bucks for it when I have one.

Speaker B: Uh, we. You Know, when we opened the first founding farmers in 2008, we studied. There was just a couple of craft cocktail bars. You know, that word wasn't in the vocabulary. Uh, you know, I think it was employees only in New York. It was New York and San Francisco, a couple of small bars. You know, just literally seats at the bar. And these guys were just doing amazing things. And we said, how can we take that to the masses? Because, boy, it's slow. It takes a long time to make a drink. It's, you know, it's labor intensive, et cetera. So we worked hard to figure out how we could scale that and keep those attributes. And what we really quickly realized was there's just a simple mindset shift. That beverage is food. So, okay, if I want to make a salad at a Founding Farmers, where are the ingredients from? How do we treat them? How, uh, sharp is the knife before you slice through that, you know, heirloom tomato? Like, the tools matter, the source matters, quality matters, the flavors matter. The way the cook feels making that, I am a. I'm just a believer. You know, you, uh, you cook like you feel. You look like you feel. And so, which is why I got this whole, like, you know, love. The staff. They'll love the food, and the guest will love the food, because the love's in the food. And so don't just say food like beverages. Food. What am I doing pouring a, uh, bag in a box sugar product out of a gun with this industrial alcohol? Like, what. What am I? Where. What am I? What am I? What am I doing? That's just what I had been trained to do, you know, and. And a bar was all sorts of other things, except the. The product wasn't treated like food. So that shifted our mindset. Um, and that's why, like, you know, we don't have soda guns and, uh, having our own distillery. And, you know, the ice matters and the ingredient matters and the way we make the infusions matter. So, um, I don't see how craft cocktails could be a fad when they are based on quality and knowledge. Those don't go away. Like a society actually gains more knowledge or has. Gets exposed to better quality. You know, you're fine staying in a, uh, motel 6 until you stay in a Hilton Garden Inn. You're fine staying in a Hilton Garden Inn until you stay in a Ritz Carlton. You find staying in Ritz Carlton until you stay at the Four Seasons, so you get exposed to better. That's not a fad. That is the foundation and the Fuel of a trend. M. So depending on uh, Do I think you need to be cutting your own ice? We used to cut our own ice. We've stopped cutting our own ice because Hoshizaki makes a great machine that produces a great cube for us. That's the size that we need. Um, so I don't think it's going away. And when you taste a deliciously balanced cocktail with premium ingredients, it will be better than any cocktail you've had before and I think you will want it again. Now when I walk into a bar I've never been to, you know, and I don't really know, it's just like a regular bar, normal people, you know, I ordered Jack and Coke and I love Jack and Coke so I don't like look down my nose necessarily that product. But in my restaurant for what we want to do and for our guests. So I don't think there's anything fad ish about it because I look at the underlying reasons for what drives its popularity or its exposure. I just don't see them going away. Do I think Boba tea eventually goes away? Well, it's way more popular than I ever thought and those, you get the texture of those little things in your mouth and the texture is awesome. Um, but I do think it eventually goes away, uh, because there's nothing really about it that someone is going to be like, wow, I'm holding on to that forever. Do I think Matcha is going away? I don't, I don't think it's going away. I think Americans have learned about this new thing. I think they like it for a bunch of factual reasons. And I think you're going to see Matcha, uh, permanent in coffee shops and tea shops as part of those menus. That's how I try to separate fab from, from trend.

Speaker A: What about um, what about the non alcoholic, um, cocktails? How do you get somebody that maybe they've had a, you know, they had a wonderful old fashioned and they're like ah, ah, I'm good. But how do you get them to, to consider one of your um, you know, as a, as an add on item, um, as they stick around longer for the year.

Speaker B: So I think it starts with the, with the restaurateurs mindset. Uh, I hate the word mocktail. I wish everybody would take it out of their vocabulary. The word in itself is just insulting to the product. Right. Mock. Right. Like we're making a fake, let alone mockery, which is what I think a lot of them actually taste like. But let alone like we're making a fake cocktail. Like, no, there's nothing to say that a cocktail must have alcohol. So let's take what makes a great cocktail, uh, flavor, how literally it feels in your hand. You know, the touch point of the glassware matters, the speed at which the ice melts and the dilution is created matters. The degree of sugar content, the balance in the flavor profile, the way you feel afterwards, both 10 minutes and an hour and two hours. So I think you can put all of that into a glass, have a liquid that can complement a meal that could be before or after. Uh, now there are things that you can add in. I mean, caffeine is the obvious legal ingredient, right. That gets an instant physical effect. So while alcohol creates the buzz, I mean, if we get the right lawyers as an industry, THC is coming for us, which I think is a positive because everybody's consuming it. We just can't sell it in, in most states and restaurants, so few outliers. But so I think the approach to the zero proof or the not or, uh, the alcohol free cocktail is the mindset is it's just as important. It's we're going to elevate it to the level of food, we're going to elevate it to the same level as any liquid that had alcohol in it. And we're not just going to try to tell the guest, you know, when you're just serving sort of fruit juice and sugar and calling it a mocktail. Well, I guess it is a mocktail. I don't think that's a winning strategy. I don't think anybody wants two of those. And I don't think anybody's going to be impressed with your culinary offerings if you do that. But I've been to some restaurants doing this really well. I feel like my team is doing this really well. My favorite is, um, we do a zero, uh, proof cocktail called Tea Time. Cantaloupe, lemon, chamomile tea, thyme. Serve it in a coupe glass. It's got garnet, it's got a really nice garnish. You know, it comes to the table and I get to order it. It's on the alcohol menu. It's not segregated. I get to order from the server. My friends are drinking, someone's getting a Sazerac and someone's drinking a gin and tonic and I order a Tea Time. You know, sounds like a cocktail shows up like a cocktail. It a cocktail. It just doesn't have alcohol. In the photo that people want to put on Instagram, I'M not a big like self poster, but it looks like you're holding uh, uh, an alcohol drink. So that's for me, I enjoy doing it. They feel kind of celebratory. Sometimes in the afternoons, like I'm sitting down, I'm having a business meeting and I'm like, let's get some cocktails. People like, really? I'm like, yeah, let's go with a zero proof. Pick your favorite. And it feels like a trade. Drinks comes, you know, drinks, they are drinks. People think they're alcohol. So that's the mindset that I, that I take to, you know, to really push it and how I experience it and it, it works.

Speaker A: Yeah, I like having it um, not separate and right there in the, in the cocktail man. You don't want to feel like I'm the guy ordering the, you know, the zero proof or whatever. Um, do you see, do you see any evidence of people wanting. Because you mentioned caffeine. Like I think of like, I mean I, I can't believe I drink these things, but I get these monster M0 ultras.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: But it's got, it's got some caffeine, but it also has B6 and B12 and I have one and I just, I have some energy. I. But I don't feel jittery. Um, but you know, it's like all almost feel like I'm okay. This is like a little shot of multivitamin. Um, do you see that as being a trend going forward or people just wanting like, I don't know, like concentrated doses of vitamins in their drinks or something like that?

Speaker B: I, I do. We're doing this in our, in our full service catering and events company a lot. It's getting really popular. Um, and we're a unique caterer because we also own a restaurant company. So we have like real bartenders and real mixology. Typical full service catering is just sort of a rental bartender pouring a typical industrial bar. So we're doing these rethinking drinking events where there's alcohol and not alcohol and. Yeah, the infusions with um, you know, the new, the nootropics, adaptogens, these. And you know, this vocabulary I know can be foreign to some folks. But think about it. You described it well, sort of like, oh, infused vitamins and minerals. Yeah. And uh, there. And you know, look, CBD has a huge following. I'm not convinced that CBD does much. I respect that. A lot of people are. But in several states you can legally uh, add CBD to beverages as well. And so my, my business partner Mike said decades ago, 20 years ago, when we were doing our first restaurant, he said to me, he calls me Danny. He's like, danny, I just think that long term America will go back to real and natural food and have, uh, it be that food cures what ails you and not have it be snake oil. But he was touching two decades ago on effectively healthy lifestyle and natural product. Uh, and I think that his forecast is and is coming true in many ways. And people are learning. And so yes, I think this is a real trend for restaurant tours. Something to explore. And it's not like, yeah, I'm not drinking. What do you have? I'll have some like faux bullshit cranberry sugary thing. Nobody wants that. But for the guest who for whatever reason doesn't want alcohol, but might want B vitamins, an appropriately mixed caffeine injection, some adaptogens or nootropics, or maybe they, they've read the research on lion's mane mushroom and they want that mixed in and they're working on their inflammation. It's like, yeah, great, I'll serve it to you on a really great piece of ice, really nice cut glass, super cool garnish with a server, well trained, and a bartender who treats it like food as they, as they build it. I think there are guests there. Every guest. No, but as we meet our guests, where they are, I think depending on your restaurant, where your guests are, that there's real opportunity here.

Speaker A: Well, a lot of the younger generation is, um, they are taking their health more seriously. They're taking what they eat more seriously. They're thinking about that, they're exercising and they're wanting to put good things into their bodies. And, and that's part of the, you know, the, they're drinking less. A lot of this comes from, you know, these influencers like Andrew Huberman, you know, and saying, hey, like, alcohol is poison. And I think, you know, that's extreme to say never have that. Um, but they are, you're getting a lot of these influences that these folks are following. But if you meet them where they are, like, you're a good place, because maybe they don't, they don't want to cook, but they don't want to go out and eat stuff that is mass produced crap either. And so, um, yeah, I'd be interested to see, you know, how that plays out. Um, they also have to be able to afford it, which is, which can be challenging. But, um. All right, well, look, I know you probably need to run. We've talked a long time. I've just really thoroughly enjoyed talking to you, Dan, and I've learned a lot from you. Uh, and I know our guests have as well. Is there anything else you wanted to rap about before we dial this up?

Speaker B: I appreciate the conversation. I said, I told you in the beginning, you know, like, uh, bring on the therapy session. So, uh, like, and I feel the support, uh, through the conversations. And I think even when we're the ones talking, you know, we're in it together. So whether you have the microphone or you're listening, you know, if you are in this industry, we are in it together. We may as well share what works, support each other, lift each other up. Um, I'm grateful you asked about family farmers. I think we're all connected. Um, and let's just choose optimism and figure out how we innovate and create this future together. But I appreciate the chance to be on your show with you.

Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you all for listening. Um, I ask everybody at the end of this show, and I'll ask you, Dan, whether it's Spotify or Apple podcasts, wherever you listen to your podcast, go give the show a five star rating. Because when we get five star ratings, the algorithm puts us in front of more people. That's always helpful. Um, thank you all for listening. Uh, if you're watching on YouTube, thank you. Thank you. Just, uh, Dan, very much for all of the great advice and wisdom. And folks, more episodes will be coming soon. We will see you.