Bridging The Gap: Navigating The Digital Transformation Of Commerce With Lamees Butt

Speaker A: Welcome to the really Know youw Customer Podcast with your hosts, Betsy Westhaefer and Tony Bodo. Join Betsy and Tony as they dive in with highly successful C suite leaders who have grown successful organizations by creating a laser focus on listening to their customers and building deep customer relationships. Now it's time to join Betsy and Tony for the really Know youw Customer show.

Speaker B: Foreign.

Speaker C: Welcome to the really Know youw Customer Podcast. I am Tony Botto, CEO of Tony Botto International.

Speaker B: And I'm Betsy Westhaefer, CEO of the Congruent Group Betsy.

Speaker C: I am excited today for our podcast episode. Lamese is going to bring some amazing ideas to the table here with her company and we're going to talk a lot today about AI. Don't be afraid if you don't know what AI is. Guests, you're listening to this very specifically. The piece that gets me excited is how the company that she works with is using AI to empower people specifically in the ability to make choices. So that's on the customer side. If you're in a B2C business, they're really helping reduce that choice paralysis and the anxiety that comes with m making a choice. As a consumer today because there are so many options, it's so hard to get the information you need. And then she's going to talk in more depth about the B2B space and how they're really leaning in and really automating some of the things that take weeks often to do in the B2B space and really helping the salespeople and people who are putting quotes together, et cetera, to really make that happen in a much faster, more efficient and more informed way, to be frank. And so the ideas that come out from this podcast, this episode really, I think, are things that anyone can embrace and think about as a consumer or, ah, in business. How could they apply some of these things to their own business?

Speaker B: Yeah. Toni Lamyce Budd is our guest today. She's the SVP of, um, global alliances and channels at a company called Zuvu. If you haven't checked them out, please do. It's an amazing company. She is based in London and she is clearly one of those tech leaders that is sitting in a position to really change the customer experience and. And change. She made a point in the pod. I don't want to like, cut to the chase here, but one of the things that really stood out for me was when she was talking about how this customer experience really unlocks additional revenue on the B2B side. And so we go deep into what Zuvu is doing on a B2C level as well as a B2B level. And it's just very exciting and so dynamic and moving so fast and it's, it's exciting to meet people that are on the cutting edge of this. And um, you'll hear her passion, you'll hear her insane intellect around what she's doing and what uh, Zoovu's doing. So without further ado, let's dive in.

Speaker D: What is the rarest advantage in business, the one that makes you competition proof? Find out in the new book the rarest how to co create strategic value to retain and expand your key customer accounts by Betsy Westhaefer and Tony Bodo. The title for this book alone makes it a must read for anyone involved with strategic accounts. Get the rarest advantage from Amazon today. The rarest advantage.

Speaker B: Lanise, thank you so much for joining us here today. We are very excited to have this conversation. We had a chance to uh, chat with you a little bit before and we know that there's going to be some really good stuff for our audience out of this conversation. So thanks for being here.

Speaker E: Betsy, Tony, excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, let's kick off. Just give us your background, how you got to this role that you're in now. Very exciting company. Tell us about your customers, the problem you're solving. Just tell us everything you want to tell us about where you sit right now.

Speaker E: Sure. I think the genesis of kind of the whole thing was that really digital transformation and for it's such an umbrella term but it's something I've been passionate about probably since my mid teens, which is a very bizarre thing to say, but always been passionate and curious about how to better things. And so when it came to digital in my early years it was about how to bridge the world in the online fashion space and the brick and mortar stores. And I really wanted to kind of develop this bridge that didn't exist before. And so my curiosity kind of took me to different heights and eventually created a startup and then obviously very young, got some seed funding, failed it fast, which is what you're meant to do kind of and learn all the lessons. But then went on to corporate and did some time Mercedes Benz, which was incredible and ran a digital transformation project for their European branches, essentially how to transform the way that they sell cars, which was extremely exciting for an automotive manufacturer to really lean in and want to be a market leader in future proofing their organization. As you know, corporate can be a behemoth and there can be a lack of agility there. And I think that at my roots, I'm somebody that really thrives in the startup environment. I'm a roll up your sleeves, get your hands dirty kind of person. And so I really wanted to go back to that LEGO brick building. And so I found myself as the number two in our London office at a company called Zuvu. And Zuvu is an AI discovery platform. And really our goal is to connect our customers to their customers and help them find the products that they need in the most seamless way possible. So we work with brands like Bosch, Dyson, Vodafone. We really help them connect to their end customers by surfacing the right product for their needs. And the reason that this exists. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept of choice paralysis, but one thing that we all know and have in common is that we all shop online. But actually, no matter whether you're shopping for a bike or a washing machine, a laptop, it's actually incredibly confusing. It's because we're overloaded with choice. And what we aim to do is remove that choice and really try to simulate that in store experience that you'd get with an expert sales rep that's asking you human questions, not how much RAM do you need or how much CPU you need, but through these almost guided questions get you to the products that's right for you. And the benefit of that in terms of business outcomes is we're obviously boosting conversions, we're driving cart value, and we're really creating customer centric approach that everybody's looking for.

Speaker B: Let me. So that is so fascinating because I think everybody can really relate to the choice paralysis and just how many options there are. If you were sitting in a coffee shop and someone was talking about Zoo Voo at the next table, what would you love to hear them say?

Speaker E: Really good question. I would love to hear them say, my washing machine broke last week and I. I've been stacked at work, I've got the kids at school, and I'm doing all of these different things, but honestly, within the space of two minutes, I was able to find the right laptop for me and get it sent to my door. And the reason I was able to do that is because this, this super cool experience on the Bosch website really helped me find a product by asking me like the questions that I would be asked if I was to go into a Home Depot and I could do that all from the comfort of my sofa. And so the time that I saved and all of those things really benefited Me, because we are time poor. So if you, if I was to sit in a coffee shop, that's really the thing that I'd want to hear. That we were able to change the lives of people like you and I who can actually go about their lives and achieve the things that they want to without doing it kind of the old way, as I like to call it.

Speaker B: So really you're selling your customers time, getting the time back and confidence of uh, their choices being the choice that they know will be the right one for them.

Speaker E: Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker C: I love this concept and I love what you're doing with it because you're removing this information disparity, which I think when we prepping, we talked about. The Internet came out in the early 2000s where it really got to the point where a lot of companies were starting to use it and information was online and like car sales as an example, that traditionally that place where you really don't know the truth of what the price is and what the options are and all of that, it changed the game. And when I look at what you're doing, I can see how this is really going to shift up and it's going to have an impact on the brick and mortar retail, like a Home Depot as an example. I can imagine that's going to impact them. What other impacts you really see with the changing of this, you know, giving customers, I don't want to say more information. It's actually probably better information at the right time.

Speaker E: I think what we'll start to see, and we're already seeing it, uh, is that customers are expecting a type of service no matter where they're shopping. And so whether you're looking generationally or you're looking at the channels that they're using. So let's just say top of funnel for the younger generation. They're browsing on the likes of TikTok, they're browsing on Instagram and they also want to be able to now purchase through that channel. They don't want to find the product or see a sponsored ad and have to then go to another website and then purchase. That's just too much effort. And so we're really kind of trying to create an experience that's streamlined and efficient for the people that are consuming it. And in terms of the discovery, people don't have the time to do the research for products or things that we need to use in our daily lives. And like I say, whether it is the bike example or a really great example that I actually have for myself is I'M renovating my house and I need to put my pictures up. And the walls that I have in the different rooms are slightly different. So there's MDF walls, there are brick walls. And I need a drill that's going to surface, like service both of those things. I have absolutely no clue which drill I need to be able to do this. And um, thankfully Bosch, one of our customers, understand that that's a real problem. I could go into a store, I could drive to my closest store, which is probably like 20 minutes away, and have that conversation with a salesperson. But that's taking a good hour, maybe two out of my day. Whereas now I can just go straight to the Bosch.com website and actually just be asked the questions. What are you looking to do? I'm looking to put some pictures up. Uh, what are the wall types? I can then select the wall types. So asking those kind of really needs based questions and understanding the need, the customer, the job to be done, you can better recommend. And what's incredible about this is that you're developing trust with your end customer. Because if you think about the conversations that you would have in store with a really good salesperson, you were having this conversation back and forth. And by the end of the conversation, if they were a good salesperson, you would have developed this level of trust because you were seen, you were heard, you felt understood. And the product that they'd recommended to you, you're actually more likely to buy the associated products, so the accessories, the compatible products. Because I now don't want to go home and search for the Bluetooth laptop and mouse that's now compatible with this laptop. I'll take it all because I trust you. And that's exactly what we're able to now do on commerce, which is just transformational.

Speaker C: It's really fascinating to me because one of the things, you know, Betsy and I started this podcast actually just before COVID hit. And so we got to. As we talked to CEOs and executives in the C suite over the last three years, we've seen a lot of changes happen. One of the initial changes we saw was the big box stores or any physical type of customer experience where companies had invested tremendous amounts in designing and creating that immediately evaporated when things were closed down. And then FedEx and UPS and whatever delivery service delivering that box to your door. That was the experience, going to the website and buying it, and the box arrives. What's happening now though, with what you're describing is that brands themselves are taking ownership of the Customer experience in a brand new way. Instead of relying on Home Depot and the Home Depot employees as an example, you know, at least here in the States, that's where we would go. Instead of going to them and relying on them for the experience and recommendation of products, you go directly to the brand itself. You get a recommendation directly from the brand who should be the best expert of their own products.

Speaker E: Yeah, yeah. And I think two things there. So first is, in my opinion, commerce websites now are simply indexes. They're not fit for purpose from a customer experience perspective. We cannot be expecting our customers to come to our website and be searching, searching for hours for the product that's right for them. That's. It's just in the world that we're living in today, you will not survive as a business if you don't understand that. There needs to be better discovery and um, better navigation to help your customers find the things that they need. The second thing you mentioned about Home Depot and I think it's such an important topic to cover because what we don't want to do is put retailers out of business. That's absolutely what we don't, what we don't want to do. But the concept of creating a connected customer experience is something we really want to do and we have to take our customers on that journey. And so this digital transformation that I said I was really passionate about in the beginning, it's not a destination for us. It's an ongoing partnership, an ongoing journey that we go on with our customers. There's an entry point where we'll kind of look at immediate discovery experiences that we can help uplift the site and the experience and then the outcomes. And then what we'll start to say, hey, some of your customers will get to the recommended product, but they might not still feel like they want to convert for whatever reason. How about if we were able to connect that recommendation to the closest store in their vicinity and now they could actually go into the store knowing that it's in stock and have a quick look at that product and then convert. All the while it's still being attributed to your commerce revenue. And that's really important because we want to be able to bridge, it's a real bridge between online and offline. It's, I think if we segregate them, we enter the danger zone because I think retailers, brands, stores in general are going to become more experience centers. And I think if we lean into that, actually there's a real place and purpose for them while kind of commerce and the other Channels are, uh, top of funnel and really helping them understand the brand, the product that they need in order to convert.

Speaker B: So many thoughts going through my head. One of them is the other beautiful thing about this. If you think about the added value beyond the product and service that's being sold, the added value of I can do this at midnight, I can look for a drill at midnight, and that's what works for me. And Home Depot is not open at midnight. So, like, the ease of being able to do this on your own terms as far as what time and sitting on your couch or whatever the case may be, is part of the experience and the added value that you're providing. The other thought is I love that bridge concept between the online and the in store. And what popped in my head is if you purchase something online but you need further assistance, or you're about to purchase it online and you need that further assistance, that brick and mortar may not have it in stock where the whole inventory is open via the online path. So just so many advantages to this.

Speaker E: It's something that when we're working with our, uh, customers, what we really want to do is kind of have a look at the customer journey end to end. And we're talking online and offline. And what we want to start to understand are we the pain points. And it's interesting. I was actually at a conference yesterday and it was centered around the future of business and how AI, generative AI, are kind of going to feed this and what does this mean for organizations. And I think that there's been a lot of talk around generative AI and how amazing it is, which it absolutely is. And it's moving at such a fast pace and it is going to transform the way that we do things. But if we're not careful and we start to use generative AI for the wrong things, I think it can have an adverse effect. And so the advice that we would give to customers is to say, let's look at that customer journey, let's identify where those pain points are. And number one, before we hit generative AI, I would like to think about how we can reimagine this process. How can we reimagine what that pain looks like today so we can resolve it? And the likelihood is, is that we can use some generative AI to solve it and transform it. But actually that's an applied AI. When we use it in that way, we'll have tremendous benefits rather than just kind of creating a bunch of generative AI tools and kind of saying, yes, we're now generative AI actually you have to use it with purpose.

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Speaker C: I think that's a really powerful distinction there because I worked in the hospitality industry almost 20 years ago now. That's a long time. Wow. Uh, and we found people would come to our hotels for three to three and a half days for conferences. That's mostly what we did there. Very large Vegas size hotels if you will. And we did the journey mapping and depending on what you were there for, you had somewhere between 40 and 45 touch points with staff or with the hotel or facilities in a meaningful way. But we also knew that only three or four of those would actually make or break your entire experience. One of those was like how long you stood in line as you were checking in. That could affect the entire thing and strangely enough, if you drove there, how easily it was to get out of the parking lot when you left at the end. And uh, those types of things just really have an effect. So I think it's really important, as you're saying, really understand the journey, understand what the customers are experiencing and then apply it very strategically at the right point in time. Because if you apply it across the board, you're frankly wasting a ton of investment and you might not actually solve the problem that really needs to be solved.

Speaker E: I completely agree. And up until this point we've been focused on B2C and I'll move to B2B in a moment. But one thing blow your minds for a minute just on the B2C world. So we've been speaking about brands and potentially retailers having these discovery experiences. What's really, really powerful for the brands is that if they're creating these discovery experiences, let's just say on Bosch.com and it's performing well, they can then make the decision to say, I want every retailer that sells my Bosch products to have this exact same experience because I want my customer, whether they're shopping@bosch.com or Home Depot or wherever they're shopping, that they're having that consistent brand experience. And then what we develop over time is this predictability around what a customer is going to receive when they hit a website. And the more that we have that predictability and m, the more that we have this common theme, the more you get repeat customers because they come back because they know what to expect. So, and that's very much the B2C world. B2B world is, is on the cusp of something right now. And when you look at B2B and you think about the products versus in a B2C kind of D2C world, the complexity of those products is vastly, vastly different. So, yes, drills are super complex for somebody like me or you and possibly not you. So don't be offended by the stereotype. But for me, they definitely are. But in the B2B world, let's just say I want to build a motherboard. I wouldn't even know where to start. So I'm looking at m multiple different parts to build the computer that I need to build. And right now, I could not go to an electronic manufacturer online and be able to produce the bill of materials in quantity or the quote without calling the sales rep first. And those sales reps are on the phone for 90 minutes at a time per customer, speaking to different departments, checking stock, checking availability, time to ship, and all of those key metrics that they need because there's no real time source to aggregate all of this data. And this is what Zuvu solves. So for the B2B world, this is super, super exciting right now. And everybody says, God, you must really love retail and consumer products. And I really do. There's something in the B2B world which I think is going to be transformational because we're to unlock revenue through commerce that wasn't. That didn't exist before. And so when these organizations are thinking about truly future proofing themselves, what does that actually mean? It's such a vague term. I'm going to future proof myself. But businesses survive because they make money. How do you make money? You sell products. But if. How are you going to sell products if you're being asked to do more with less? You can't hire more salespeople. So what have I got to do? I've got to digitize my sales process. How do I digitize my sales process if my products are so complex and they live in 40 different systems, all with different variants? And that's where we kind of come in to solve those problems.

Speaker B: What I get excited about one, we can hear your passion about what you're doing, but also, I mean, you're really in a position to kind of change the whole world. On how this is done and in a very positive way to, as you said, unlock that additional revenue for businesses. So I think that's just wildly exciting. I also think you know your point. I know a lot of people who are not tech savvy necessarily, they hear AI and it makes them shudder because there's so many things. And it's just, I'm sure the same feelings that people had when the Internet started, you know, like, oh, uh, this can be used for some awesome stuff, this can be used for some bad stuff. And that's exactly how it's played out. And so I think the more people see what good can come and what the use cases are in a really positive way for AI. I love telling those stories. We're working with another client that is using AI in healthcare and it's just so fascinating what it can do for healthcare. And so I know that there are so many positive things. So this is just one more example of how it can be used in a really positive way, especially I think in that B2B sector, because that's kind of where we live for sure.

Speaker E: And I think that the AI topic in general, obviously it's nothing new, it's been around for years. And um, I think that there's definitely been a bit of virality with generative AI, which is now why, you know, everyone's talking about it. And it's really, really cool and exciting. But AI is ultimately data sets, large data sets that have been built over time and learned. And I think what's so exciting is that there's been industries, for example B2C, D2C consumer products, where we've run these kind of AI experiences for so many years now, where we have all of this unbelievable data that we can really learn off and pull trends and have all of this insight. What excites me is when I look at the future for industries that haven't really applied AI yet. And so it's kind of like the infancy of bringing on an intern. When you bring on an intern, you have to train them, you have to onboard them, they go through whether it's online training or they have to do tests. And then after six months they're proficient, they can now answer the phones, they can do things, but in two years time they're going to be an expert. And that's how I see, see kind of the next two years from an AI perspective, especially in the industries where it hasn't been as prevalent, like healthcare, because I think that it's so exciting and an industry that is so ripe for disruption because it will dramatically change the way that healthcare operates.

Speaker C: How, um, do you see this playing out? I mean, I've got two daughters who are Gen Z, right? And they're both in college right now. They're going to be in the workforce in a couple of years, but Gen Z is going to peak as far as I think they're going to be the biggest employed group by 2030. And their experience of shopping as a consumer, you know, let's say in their teens, up and into their early 20s now, has really been around. They've seen machine learning and AI and all of that behind the scenes helping them as consumers. I mean, what's your perspective? I can't imagine they're going to tolerate the chaos that we've lived through in a B2B scenario. They're going to demand more. But what's your perspective on that?

Speaker E: So, uh, especially as it pertains to kind of AI and all of those things, I don't even think I could predict post six to eight months at this point because of how fast things are moving, which is exciting, but also kind of, we've got to keep our eyes open in the best way possible. But from the Gen Z and employment perspective, what excites me about that is just as you say, they're not going to tolerate the same things that we did. What that means is that we can expect a real shift in the way that those businesses operate and I truly believe for the better, because Gen Z are looking at, for better or for worse to consistently optimize. They want everything in the most seamless way, one click purchase. They want things now. And so from a B2B standpoint, having that experience where I have to speak to a salesperson and then I have to speak to five different teams to get the different data and then I have to manually put that into a spreadsheet to build a quote and then send that out, at which point I don't even know if the stock availability is, you know, still real. That just is not going to stand kind of with the Gen Z group. And so I think that as they start to come in, especially in the B2B world, there will definitely be a shift and they will be leaning into customer centricity, really truly putting the customer at the heart of it. And I think it's just one of those things where when you do things and you've been doing them for so long in the same way, it becomes habitual. And um, I think that bringing in a fresh set of eyes and A fresh set of thinking is actually going to be really helpful to these organizations. And I've seen it in some instances already because when you look at it through a different lens and through a different angle, you can reimagine the way that things should be, which maybe you wouldn't have thought of before because we're in the weeds.

Speaker B: It kind of made me chuckle when you said that if people see a sponsored ad on TikTok, they don't want to have to go to another platform to actually go purchase it because that's more work. And I think wasn't that long ago where it wasn't even an option to buy online. I mean like our frame of reference on what constitutes more work has just shifted so much and it just kind of makes me laugh, like, oh my gosh, I have to go to another platform and move my mouse to buy this massive product that I want. You know, I just think it's really funny. And to your point, what's that look like six to eight months from now as all of these things are changing at such a dynamic time and a very exciting time. So what's on a radar for Zubu?

Speaker E: So it's going to be an exciting year for us. I think that, you know, for a number of reasons, discovery is a relatively new space in itself. We've been around for number of years, but discovery is something just to your point there. It wasn't so long ago that we were able to not buy things online. And so we've moved incredibly fast knowing that this was going to be the future. And I'm really excited about our current customers and the things that they're doing and the way that they're looking to be market leaders in the specific industries that they sit in, whether that is B2B in the industrial manufacturing space or whether that is the actual shoe provider or whether it was the bike provider track. I'm just excited for their businesses in the next five to 10 years for them, knowing that they're invested in their future. And then from an actual product perspective, we're obviously a SaaS platform. And what we really want to be able to do is give our uh, business users, our customers, the ownership of this platform so that we can actually move away kind of from that kind of whole notion that we need to spend weeks and months changing things and going through cycles. We need to be more agile if we're hoping to have change for these organizations. And so we'll definitely look at, you know, as we look at our roadmap, generative AI is absolutely in there. I can't say too much now, but we are looking to release some exciting things towards the end of the year, which I know, you know, this has all come from work with our top, uh, tier customers. And um, so it's going to be pretty exciting as we roll it out. And we've done exactly what we were talking about before, which is looking at the problems that exist and making sure that we're applying Gener AI to those

Speaker B: problems that, uh, sparks a thought. And another question. When you say you're working with your top tier clients, how do you do that? Do you have customer advisory boards? Do you have product focus groups? How do you engage with your top tier clients?

Speaker E: In a variety of ways, we do cabs, absolutely. The customer advisory boards are a great way for us to connect with our customers, but also from a thought leadership perspective, have that room, talk to each other. Because as you say, in a space that's so fast moving, we need to be exchanging thoughts and we need to be sparring with each other. And I think that our customers feel the benefit of being able to do that when they can speak to each other as well as hearing from us as well. And we'll also run separate events with our customers and that's opening up the group so a much wider group and also for partners as well, because it's not just customers, but also our partners that help us extend our uh, capabilities and our reach. And so ensuring that we have a really strong ecosystem is really important to the future and growth of zvu.

Speaker C: It's interesting because normally when asked about this point in our podcast, what is going to happen the next three to five years for a company? And that's so unpredictable, as you've already expressed. But I guess my question I would want to ask though is knowing how unpredictable AI is and where we're at in the journey, how do you look forward for ZOVU and also for your clients to really say, where should we head? How, where should the roadmap kind of be leading us? Even though if we don't know the exact path we're going to be two to three years from now?

Speaker E: So we recently entered a partnership with SAP and what that partnership has evolved into within the space of 18 months is something quite special because as you know, they've got 400,000 customers who are predominantly focused in the B2B world and they all have the same problem that we know we can solve. And so I think really our, um, mission over the next, I would say two to three years is really going to want to have this kind of almost like roadshow of making sure that people are problem aware, but also solution aware. People know that they have these problems, but they don't quite know how to solve them. And we want to make sure that they know how to solve these problems and they know what the tools are to be able to do that. And so this partnership with SAP has been quite transformational because we know exactly kind of where the pain points are and how we can solve them. And so from that point onwards, it's then about, okay, how do we supercharge all the experiences that we currently have with all the technology that's going to be ever evolving and being released?

Speaker B: Wow. This time has flown. And I think we could continue talking about this for a long time because we're all obviously very passionate about what you're doing. Congratulations, first of all, for the amazing work that you and your company are doing. It's truly amazing, and we'll definitely be watching to see how all this unfolds because it's very exciting. But before we let you go, one of the things we like to do on the show is ask our guests. Is there any nonprofit or charitable organization that you want to shine a spotlight on? It's just our little way to try to help bring awareness to organizations that are really doing great work. So is there anybody that you want to give a shout out to? And if so, we'll be happy to put the link to their website in our show notes.

Speaker E: Awesome. Yeah, it's such a nice thing that you guys are doing here, and I actually think that there's a bigger, uh, message in what you're doing there, which is that being good to humanity is actually good for business as well. I think for me specifically, I've been a woman in the tech space for the last 15 years, and that hasn't been an easy journey. It's been quite hard to navigate. And the higher that I elevated, the less women that I saw. And there are multiple times when I'm in boardrooms, keynotes, panels, and I'm the only woman sitting there, and it can get lonely sometimes. And I would love to have more women at those tables, more women in those rooms. And I think that we need to be able to amplify those voices. And. And so there's a charity called Women for Women. And actually this is something that it's not even at our level, I. E. We have opportunities at our fingertips and we can make choices to be able to be in that room and use our voice. But Women for Women is shining a spotlight on the women that don't have that choice. So women that have been oppressed and um, women that cannot use their voice at all. And those situations make me feel quite helpless even in the situation that we're in. And so however I can help shine a light, light on those things or just raise awareness, I would love to do because I'd love to live in a world where that wasn't the case for any woman.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, that is wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing and for giving the context, your own personal context to that. Thank you so much for sharing. Tony, any final questions for Lamise?

Speaker C: You know, I always have more questions but I know we've run out of time here today on this episode, so let me thank you so much. This has been truly amazing to have this conversation and I really look forward to having a follow up conversation at some point to see where you guys are maybe another six or 12 months from now.

Speaker E: Now. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I've loved the conversation.

Speaker B: Thank you. We'll see you soon.

Speaker C: Betsy. I absolutely love this interview and one of the things that really stands out to me is this whole idea of what could customer experience become on the B2C side. We spoke a little bit about these retail brick and mortar, if you will, locations becoming experience centers. Just a place for people to go to really experiencing. Maybe they do their shopping, their thinking online, you know, as you said, at midnight, maybe that's what they're doing out there. Right. And then they go to the location and really have an experience. And I think that's really the future that we're seeing. I'm watching it happen in retail space right now how even Target is bringing in different types of brands and they have their own little setups and own little locations that within the store. Right. And so I think we're moving more and more in that direction in the B2C space. And then when we talk about the B2B side of things and really understanding what's that customer journey and what are those few points that we really need to address because they're so painful today that we need to solve them now. And it's a very legitimate point. Lamise brought up how you've got salespeople, you know, we're not going to be able to grow your salesforce. You got to do more with less and there's more information than ever available. And you've got to be able to know are all the pieces going to be able to come Together for the thing I'm manufacturing as an example, right in the right time frame. And we saw with COVID how logistics channels get bogged down and things get late and it shuts down one factory after another. We're such an interdependent economy that I think we need to have things like AI in the right place, doing the right things so that as an economy we can overcome some of these really significant challenges that we've already faced and we will only continue to face as they expand.

Speaker B: You know, Tony, what just came to mind for me is we were working with their customer advisory board, where they had C suite leadership around the table of, uh, major retail brands. And one of those retailers was a large national shoe retailer. And they were piloting at the time, they were piloting putting a nail salon in their shoe store so that people could get pedicures before they go shopping for sandals or whatever the case may be. But it was all related to the feet where you could get this pedicure. And it was just part of the experience. And so I really keyed in on that whole brick and mortar becoming experience centers and the creativity that that unlocks versus I'm going to go in the store, I'm going to buy something, I'm going to leave. Just how creative these retailers can get in turning these brick and mortar stores into experience centers, I think is wildly exciting. And for me, being a non shopper type, I'm not a big shopper that would draw someone like me. And if I thought, oh, I can get a pedicure and a pair of shoes in one stop, that's pretty cool, I would do that. That versus just going and looking online for a pair of shoes. So I think it's all very exciting. We're so grateful that we got that time to chat with Lanise. And I'm sure our audience is really embracing a lot of the concepts that she was talking about. And so we're just having fun doing this podcast, aren't we, Tony?

Speaker C: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Well, thank you again for joining us on the really Know your Customer podcast. We'll see you next time.

Speaker A: Thanks for joining us for this episode of uh, really Know youw Customer. We hope you gained a lot of value from being here today. If you want to learn more about the work Betsy and Tony do to help their clients thrive, Visit Betsy at thecongruitygroup.com and Tony@tonybotto.com. see you next time on the real really know your customer show.