Kaizen Event Facilitation and Sustainability with Adam Lawrence

Speaker A: We are lucky enough to be joined by the Kaizen ninja, Adam Lawrence. Adam, welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Hey, Dan, thanks for inviting me. Happy to be here with you.

Speaker A: I am absolutely thrilled to have you on the show because one of the things we have not talked a lot about on the podcast is kaizen and a Kaizen event. So could you briefly just tell us what a Kaizen event is? And then of course, we'll get much more in depth after that.

Speaker B: Of course, Dan and I really appreciate it. So kaizen is a Japanese term for those that are unaware. It just means change for the better. Now, in the United States, and I've done this all over the world, but in the United States, we tend to not have a culture that just makes improvement all the time. So we create these things called Kaizen events. What we're going to do is we're going to get a small team focused on a critical business problem. Uh, we're going to stay focused on it, uh, through a period of time. Usually for me, it's a week or less. And what we're going to do is we're going to go see it in action. We're going to find out why the problems exist, what are the root causes, uh, try some solutions, come up with our favorite thing, implement it. And then if you're working with me, we're going to try to sustain it by the end of the session. So the goal is no homework, try it, test it, improve it, implement it, sustain it, and done. And then if we do really well, the problem doesn't come back.

Speaker A: That's the million dollar question, isn't it? The problem not coming back.

Speaker B: Right, right. And that's a big focus for me. So sustainability is kind of my, my jam. And, uh, we can talk about that later when you're ready.

Speaker A: So you are indeed the Kaizen ninja. What does it actually mean to be a ninja in the room during a Kaizen event?

Speaker B: That's a great question. So I facilitated probably over 400 Kaizen events around the world. And so what I learned very early on is if you really want to sustain it, if you want to make the best possible experience, the team has to own their solution. Right. So early on in my career, I was giving them my ideas, and Adam wants us to do this, but the reality is they need to own it. So what is this image of a ninja? The idea is, in feudal Japan, ninjas would come in middle of the night and things would happen. Not necessarily positive things, but things. Right. Or how did that happen? You know, the evidence would Be gone. But the change had been made. So that's what I try to do. And I facilitate a team to a solution of their problem. I want it to look like I wasn't even there. They have to own it. They have to be excited about it. It has to be their idea. It has to work for them. So less me, more them. The idea of the Kaizen Ninja just means let's make it fun. But in the reality of it, I have to be able to go away and they have to want the solution to live on. That's the most important thing. It doesn't matter what I want. It matters what they need.

Speaker A: I think it's interesting how you got the name Kaiser Ninja and where that comes from, because about 40 years ago in the 80s, ninjas were exceedingly popular in movies and TV shows. Was that part of the inspiration from back in the 80s and maybe your childhood?

Speaker B: Well, you know, there was a lot of alcohol involved in the 80s, so probably there's something to that. And I am a product of my experiences and my upbringing, but probably more just in a fun way. Right? So if you do this well, people actually will enjoy the experience and want to do it again. If you don't do it well, they'll be like, I'm not doing that. Are you kidding? So the idea that Ninja. We want people to be comfortable with process improvement. We want people to not be afraid of it. You're going to hear me talk about things like what I call butt ugly by Friday. So how do we make continuous improvement, process improvement Kaizen events fun, not scary. We're allowed to try things. It's not that hard. It might be exhausting mentally and physically. But hey, we've had these ideas for years. For years. No one's ever given us this opportunity. So the whole Ninja idea, and you know, you can see it behind me, I've got a. I've got stress, uh, ninjas behind me. I hand them out to my team members and my little Kaizen Ninja graphic cartoon is all over my website and everything else. You gotta have some fun with this. That's. I'm wearing my Hawaiian shirt. Friday is Hawaiian Shirt Day at global headquarters of Process Improvement Partners. It's really important. I didn't come up with that, but somebody was doing that and I was like, what a cool idea. I want to do that too. So now I do that.

Speaker A: We have Hawaiian Shirt Friday here at More Steam as well. I am, um, losing weight. People who've been watching the podcast can see that there's been a Gradual reduction in my weight this year, and I'm losing weight. And part of my goal is to get back into my Randy the Macho Man Savage Hawaiian shirt that I bought specifically for Hawaiian Shirt Fridays here at

Speaker B: More Steam, and for those of us from that generation, because kind of you, you could imagine the sunglasses in the whole outfit.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: So. And you know what? Continuous improvement visualization is a very big piece of that. So if. If y' all have not visualized Randy the Macho Man Savage, you're missing out. And you don't really have what it takes to be a true practitioner. But Google it if you're unaware. But yeah, that's. That's pretty.

Speaker A: I might have to put a picture of me in that shirt in the show notes.

Speaker B: Adam, sounds good.

Speaker A: You mentioned that you've facilitated over 400 Kaizen events. what number did you stop being surprised by what happens in the room or. Or are you even not there yet? You're still not surprised?

Speaker B: Oh, I'm surprised every time. So maybe the next one won't give me any surprises. So there's always that variable, right? There's people, and you don't know how they feel and what preconceived notions they're coming in with. But what I love about any Kaizen event is how it can change a person personally, uh, emotionally. You know, it changes their career trajectory. I've seen people grow in a week. I don't, uh, know if you're familiar with the five stages of team building. Forming, storming, norming, performing. I can't remember. Maybe I don't have them all we do that day one, essentially, because they have to be willing to try. And some of these folks have never worked with each other, and they don't even believe that the improvements are possible. So I used to, many years ago, kind of predict what the solutions were going to be, and I was always wrong. So I. I gave up on that. There's no point now. I always have. I mean, I've. Like you said, 400 is a lot. There are people that have done many more than me. Uh, but I can tell you, people's creativity is amazing. And even if I think I know what they're going to do, they usually go beyond it. And, okay, there have been times when I was like, I could have done better than that, but they're still happy. And honestly, Kaizen means make better, not make perfect. So I'm good with that. I want to help them feel like, hey, we did it this time. We can do it again. And they're listening to my ideas now, and I actually was given the empowerment to try stuff, and nobody got upset when something didn't work. And here we are, we're in a better place.

Speaker A: You mentioned earlier that your goal is that the group, the team, has to feel like they came up with the answer and the answer didn't come from you.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: How do you do that, though, when you've already seen the answer work, like 30 or 40 times, and you think you know the answer, but you've got to hold back? How do you hold back in that moment when you're probably in your mind saying, I want to tell you what I've seen work again and again in this situation.

Speaker B: So I can give you a few examples. So here's what I don't have. That they have the experience of dealing with the problem every single day under their conditions and circumstances. So if I just said, do what this team did, there may be a reason that they can't do that. And I don't know that. So we always go to Gemba, right? So the whole idea of seeing the problem from the perspective of those doing the work while we're out there living it, and so they demonstrate. Sometimes they show me the thing. Okay. Sometimes they do miss an opportunity. And so I know that even though I want to be a ninja, sometimes I just can't let them miss an opportunity. So let me give you an example of that. Uh, it was a $1.4 million opportunity.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: So I could not let. And I get paid the same either way. I'm going to tell you that right up front. But I couldn't stand it. So here's what was happening. We were making composite decking in Florida, and the issue was what happens at the packaging end. And so the material comes off the. I'm, um, a manufacturing rat. So, you know, those of you that are non manufacturing, I've done Kaizen and non manufacturing, but I love the manufacturing stuff because you can see it. So one person tended the back end of four or five production lines, and material comes off very, very slowly. But at the moment when we have to put the final package together, multiple boards, it gets very chaotic. So the idea was we need to simplify, reduce the effort, all that kind of good stuff.

Speaker A: Okay?

Speaker B: So organizing materials and having things laid out easily and, you know, clearing aisles and all those good things. But there was one group that said it takes us a long time to do our quality checks. And what we found out was there was this one chop saw at the end of the building for about 24 manufacturing lines. And so every 30 minutes, I have to take a board off of one of my lines and cut a 12 inch piece, weigh it, make sure the density is right. And so I have to go this chop saw. And they said, well, this thing's far away and it's dirty, it's messy, it's nasty, and all this kind of stuff, and it takes time. I have to walk away from my line. I might have to package over here, and I can't miss my quality check. Okay, what do you want to do about that? Well, let's make it more convenient. Let's have more chop saws. Let's do this, let's do that. I said, uh, I'll tell you what, let me ask you this question. How do you figure out the density? Well, we take a known measurement and we weigh it. I said, okay, what's the known measurement? 12 and a quarter inches. Okay, why is it 12 and a quarter inches? Well, that's what they gave us. Okay, fine. How big is the board you're making? Oh, anywhere from 12ft to 24ft. Okay. Can you measure that? Yep. Okay, how do you weigh it? Oh, uh, well, we have this scale. Okay. So I keep asking questions. As I say, you think there's any way we can do this without having to cut a piece? They're like, what? So instead of moving chop saws and all, Ah, what I was trying to get them to is, hey, if you just make some little thing that you can weigh right on the line. Right, right. I, uh, don't have to cut anymore. So I went to the store and bought them a postal scale and they made a little cart and they rolled it and could raise and lower to the height of whatever. And if it was more than 16ft long, they had two people pick it up. And if it was less than 16ft long, they could slide it right into the thing. And at that moment, they had to no longer cut pieces off their boards. So it turns out annually that was worth about 1.4 million. Um, they were stuck. And honestly, their solution would have been better than what they had, But I just couldn't leave it there. And I was just trying to walk them through the thinking that now we had to statistically prove and get the QC team to agree and align. And we proved it. And it was, uh, of course, it was even more accurate than what they were doing anyway. So once we were able to do that, they just stopped cutting scrap boards. The chop saw essentially went away except for getting rid of things and Lots less dust in the facility and lots of money recovered. So sometimes you have to do that. But, you know, they were very pleased to never have to do. And they designed their cart, they designed their system, they did the statistical analysis. And these were hourly operators for the most part. But they. They wanted it so badly that, um, they. They took it. So in that case, you know, I say, hey, do you mind if I take off my facilitator hat? Uh, I couldn't allow it. Now, another way I go about it is I'll do something extreme. So it's like, hey, we can't do 5s, because if we put tools on a toolboard, somebody's going to walk off with them. This actually happened about, I don't know, 10 years ago, 12 years ago. I said, well, what if you paint the tools pink? I said, you think a contractor is going to walk out with a pink wrench? And they're like, oh, that's stupid. Why would we. No, uh, yeah, we're not painting them pink. I'm like, okay, what do you think you want to try? So anyway, about an hour or two later, they called me, said, can you go to the store and get us some spray paint? I said, what color would you like? Pink? No, no, no, we're not doing pink. We'll do red. Okay, we'll do red. So we did red. Who cares? And then another line, like two months later said, well, we want the blue tool, so we'll be the blue toolboard. And they never lost a tool ever again. So sometimes you go extreme. You got to have the personality to put yourself out there and do something. You know, like if you were in comedy, for example, the ability to stand up in front of people and say something a little outrageous.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And when we talked about that, it reminded me of bowling shoes. That's why bowling shoes look the way they do, so people wouldn't steal them. And I was almost as you've been talking, and I'm glad you mentioned comedy, because it made me think of what you do, because if you facilitate, it's almost like there's a magic to it. Because if you facilitate a, uh, kaizen event correctly, everyone thinks that they came up with the answer. They walk away. We're the geniuses. We came up with this. There we go. Meanwhile, you're facilitating to get them there in comedy. If you're doing it well, you're going to be up there. You're not going to sound too rehearsed. You might be, say, looking like you're saying this for the very first time, because you're so good at it. And then people come away not knowing what was planned, what wasn't planned. So there's, there's something to it that you're trying to achieve something. So if they're all coming away at the end thinking we came up with these answers ourselves, what do they say to you, like a week later, a month later, they're like, did we even need you? What were you doing?

Speaker B: You know, that's the best facilitation. If it looks like you weren't even there.

Speaker A: The ninja. The ninja.

Speaker B: It really goes back to that. So early in my career, especially when I went out on my own, I wanted recognition for what I had done. And what I realized was, what a waste of time. The more I want that, the worse it's going to feel. So instead of that, prepare them for the win, have them excited about it, be in their moment. Then they're asking their leaders for more. And if the leaders were paying attention, the ones that are paying the bills,

Speaker A: the ones signing the checks, the ones

Speaker B: signing the checks, they might have noticed a, uh, correlation of cause and effect, right? So I like to help lead them to that. I don't necessarily facilitate them to that. You know, I'm not that, you know, But. But honestly, the best report out. So when we do report outs, there's about a 10 to 15 minute PowerPoint delivered by the team, not by Adam. I've divorced myself. I build it for them. I just take pictures. And I have a structure. I have standard work for all that. They deliver it and then they give the Gemba walk. And the best report outs are the ones where I haven't even been mentioned. Right? Because the leaders know I was there, right? And they, they get it. And I've had leaders say, I have never seen a team so engaged. I've never seen. We had a guy that had never spoken up in front of anybody. They said, what did you do to Gene? I said, I, uh, listened to him and he delivered the print part of the report out. I always offer, hey, each one of you should at least do one or two slides. It's your story. Tell your story. I even have a process to get them comfortable for that because, again, I want it to be their win. And they notice that. And leaders notice these things. So the payback obviously is they want me back, which is cool. And if I do get to come back, the real payback is some of the people in the facility saying, hey, when can I be on your next team? Love that. That is the coolest of things. I said, well, talk to your manager. Right? You know, I'm not that, I'm, um, not that subtle. Talk to your manager if you want to know. But I said, you know, if, if there's something that's really bothering you in your facility or in your process, you know, first of all, talk to your leaders and say, hey, is this something we should have a Kaizen event about? And if you want to participate, for sure, by all means. I love having team members that want to be part of the team. There's nothing better than that.

Speaker A: How long did it take you, Adam, to get to that mindset? Because you said earlier on you wanted recognition and now you love it when your name's not even mentioned at all in the report outs. How long did it take you to change that mindset? And was there a moment that directly led to that?

Speaker B: There were multiple moments. I will say that I'm still working on that.

Speaker A: I think we all are, right?

Speaker B: We have ego.

Speaker A: Everyone wants recognition for the good work that they do. And that's part of, part of lean. Right?

Speaker B: Right. That is right. So about 20 years ago, I was facilitating within a corporate setting. So I was an internal facilitator. I was sent to Oregon to help a team do something. And somebody said in the middle of the session, Adam wants us to do this. And I knew that moment. That was not a good moment. That wasn't a good moment. So I can do better than that. But living in a corporate setting, when you get your annual reviews and so on, you do want to be recognized for the work. You do want to set yourself apart so that you don't get like the average grade. Okay, but you're on the payroll and they're going to put up with whatever for a while. In this case, my employer put up with 29 years of that. So, um, I was coached. I mean, we all get coached. We have good mentors, hopefully throughout our careers at different points and different times. So, you know, you can kind of mold at them. It's not completely fixable, but you can mold. Uh, but I think I realized it even more when I went out on my own about eight years ago when I realized again, I'm not necessarily going to see them ever again. So again, because I won't get that kind of follow up, they really do need to own it. So I developed a mantra about 15 years ago. Ish, less me, more them. It's pretty simple. Uh, so everything I design from the chartering process, the initial meeting with potential clients all the way to the end and beyond is how do I give it to them? I need them to win. And I, you know, I'm an optimist. If they win, then sometimes I win, right? Bring me back or refer me to somebody or promote me or, I don't know. Um, so I just think the more I do it, the better. I'm not invisible. I'm not, I'm not quiet, I'm not subtle. I'm a pushy sob. Uh, if you're a change agent, you're gonna be anyway. But push with respect for the purpose of helping them win. I have told CEOs that they're not ready for this. Uh, you know, certain consultants that have bigger names than Adam can, uh, get them to beg them to come back for me. It's like, if you can't set the initial basic expectation, there's no way that we're going to be able to get a team to hold to it because you won't support it. Uh, and I've had those, those are tough conversations. You're walking away from business, but you gotta be true to who you are. And again, if my mission is to help them have that win and sustain the win, then I have to stick to those principles.

Speaker A: Adam, I'm gonna relate another thing back to stand up comedy.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: When you're a stand up comedian, you're asked two questions more than any other question. The questions are, how do you deal with hecklers? And what do you do when you bomb? Those are the questions you get. People want to know the negative. So now in my role, now I get to ask questions somewhat similar to that. Tell me about a Kaizen event. You're two hours into a Kaizen event that nearly went off the rails. This is not going the way you wanted it to go. And what did you do to bring it back in?

Speaker B: Okay, well, two hours is kind.

Speaker A: Okay, Give me whatever you got.

Speaker B: All of them go. So first of all, it ain't a Kaizen if it doesn't go sideways.

Speaker A: Okay?

Speaker B: And it ain't a Kaizen if you don't piss off at least two people.

Speaker A: Okay?

Speaker B: Okay. Because you're not trying hard enough. You're not challenging. Now, with respect, but I, I, those are just my jokey ways to say. Let, uh, me tell you one that went off the rails almost three days late later. I, uh, was in Pensacola, Florida, working for my corporate employer many years ago, and the team's doing what they think is good stuff. And the some lady raises her hand on the team and says, I don't think we're working on the right stuff. And she made her case and focused us on the charter. And she was right. And the team realized it and I realized it. So we redirected everything, all efforts. We told our sponsors our report out, uh, will not be a formal one because we have found that we are going the wrong direction. And thankfully, Alice, not her name, that's the one that came to my head at the moment, had the bravery, the courage to raise her hand and tell us. And, and that was a big one for me because it told me how important the charter is. In fact, I am known for how I charter now. I have a, a four step process I've delivered at many conferences called Chartering to Win. And it's very, very specific to why chartering is so critical. How to get alignment around it and really make sure you don't do what I did right. So most of my stuff got developed from all the boo boos I made. Okay, so that's the extreme of that. And yeah, we've had different versions of that. I had one where I lost a team member. Where's Joe? Uh, Joe's not coming in today. I called from jail. Okay, well, we'll just keep going then. Yeah, that's. That happens. That's not an excused absence, by the way. Now we just keep going. Uh, I get very, very skeptical people at the very beginning. They think, oh, we're just going to be stuck in this room all week. Well, my biggest way to diffuse all that is get them out of the room really fast and start working on stuff. So most of my Kaizen events on day one, we're actually trying our new stuff. Uh, not day three, day one. And I've learned how to shorten all the stuff so they can get out into the real work and still learn something about what they're doing. Because I have worked with groups that have never heard the words Lean, Kaizen, continuous improvement, any of the words, um, from zero to get them to work. But I've had people say this. No freaking way. That's not the word used that we're going to get this done in a week. I've had that hundreds of times. I love skeptics. Those are the best. Um, because I'm not. We're going to do it. I don't know what it is yet. Let's find out what we're going to do. Uh, yeah, but. So they always go off the rails for some version. The best facilitators, the most Ninja Ninja E just can Zig and zag the way they need to for the team again.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker B: I've had people walk out of guys. I had a very high level scientist one time. I can't work this way. Put his hands up like George Costanza and just walked out of the room like, dang. It was pretty extreme. I was in my corporate setting. Um, it did not make him look very good, to be honest with you. But you know, like, hey, Dave, you just can't. That's fine. Off he goes. I'm not stopping you, Adam.

Speaker A: Not as many people. Not many people have the experience you do with 400 plus plus kaizen events. Most people who are running a Kaizen event are probably running it, you know, for the first few handful of times. So what is the most common mistake you see in those beginners or. Or uh, just in general of people running Kaizen events?

Speaker B: First thing is they try to personally influence the outcomes. Okay, that's a big one. Because they feel like I did, hey, I'm pretty smart. I've got some ideas. Why don't they want to use my ideas? Yeah. So there's that piece, the other piece. Uh, and I actually train facilitators, so I have a thing I call the Kaizen Ninja Institute. I've done this with three companies where I'm upskilling people. So to empower, engage, and give people equal voice. So it's a big rookie mistake, is to be the one writing everything for the team. That's a terrible boo boo to make. And I used to make it too. So I've created all sorts of methods so that I don't have to ever write anything except the agenda. Right. So give them all post its. Give them pens. Hey, write down your ideas about this. They write it down. Now say it out loud to us. And now place it on the board for us. I don't do any of it anymore. So that's another reason why it looks like I'm not doing anything. Right. So you're managing the interaction and the engagement and so that somebody can't overpower somebody else. So I can have a CEO in the same room with an hourly employee and they will look like they're all at the same level. The way I facilitate rookies don't know how to do that. They're like, oh, uh, I have to do it different for this one than that one. Or somebody's got a louder voice or more ideas or whatever. So I've, I've worked out because I know the principles of everything I'm trying To accomplish. Everything has a purpose. Everything's designed for purpose. The reason I do post its and pens is if they write it, it's their idea. They own it. And one post it is no better than another post it. And if I write five and you write three, we're going to do three rounds of discussion before I get to go to my fourth and my fifth. So I can't overpower you. Okay, so everything's got purpose. Everything is trying to help people feel like they're part of the entire process rather than, uh, oh, well, that guy's the ops manager, so he knows or she knows more than us. So let's just listen to them. Oh, no, they don't deal with that problem every single minute of every single day. They're wishing they could help you more. They just. They just know what they see.

Speaker A: I find it very interesting, as you're talking about this, the differences between a facilitator and a coach. Like a coach of a team.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I want to go backwards a little bit. One of the biggest rookie mistakes to try never to make again. Please. If you have three listeners or 3,000, don't be facilitator and team leader. Separate those two things. That's a big boo boo. Uh, I've had people argue with me. The problem is, is that the leader has way too much influence if they're trying to facilitate also. So I love facilitating team leaders because they always break ground rules and I can put them in their place. And people are like, oh, he's treating us all the same. That's cool. We all have that equal voice. Okay, now state your question again. I'm sorry, I got lost.

Speaker A: No, I was just, uh, commenting on. I would. Often coming into this conversation, I would think of a facilitation, facilitator, almost like a coach. But when you talked about how you have to treat the members of the team, it's a very different dynamic because as a coach of a team, the star quarterback, Tom Brady.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Is going to be treated differently than the backup guard or the special teams player who maybe was just signed. But as a facilitator, who I almost thought of as a coach coming in, it's a very different mindset.

Speaker B: It is. So you have to realize that the most creative idea could come from anybody. So the goal is to make it so easy for those ideas to come out and then to. And I also have to work on how do we build very fast consensus. Right. How do we prioritize the best of the best so that Tom Brady doesn't always get to do everything he wants to do. And what's interesting about your analogy is if you, if you, if you hear about the stories about the best of the best, like Jordan early on, you know, he thought he was going to be best, but his coach basically said, if you're not working harder than anybody else, you're never going to be better than anybody else. So these guys work their tails off, right? They don't just, it's not given to them. So what I'm trying to do is I'm working everybody's tails off. What I want is to pull the best out of each one at whatever level it is, and then let the team decide what the most important stuff to work on. Not Tom Brady or Michael Jordan or whoever. But this will do the most for us based upon our charter. Again, what are we trying to accomplish? We're trying to cut the time of the changeover in half. Will this help cut the time of the changeover in half or will it just make the facility look good? If it just looks good, the heck with it, throw it out, prioritize it to the thing we're trying to accomplish. So it doesn't matter who came up with it. The team sees it as, oh, this is really going to make us safer. It's going to make it easier, it's going to make it more consistent, we're going to make less boo boos. We're going to not cut $1.4 million of scrap every year. Um, and if it's in the charter, then they go for it. Now there's a risk with all that. Once you teach them that they can make change, they want to change everything. They're like, oh, we fixed that. Can we fix that? Is it in the charter? Is it in our scope? No. Did we vote for that as a top thing? No, we as a team. Now, if you want to get the whole team back together, we're not going to change scope. But if you see a new priority based upon what we learned, I'm okay with that. You know, I don't have to be rigid around that. Um, as long as the team sees it that way, is it going to help us blow our objective out of the water? I want them to not just meet. I want them to beat and then destroy the objective. Uh, that's my entertainment. After 400 of these, how I do is like, how much further can I get them?

Speaker A: Adam, you're talking about charter a lot. And I don't have any questions today about charter, but I'm going to tell you right now, I'd love to have you back on the show to speak specifically about charters, but for now, I've got some more questions about kaizen. And. Okay, you've introduced improv exercises into kaizen. And improv is a performance art that is unscripted, where essentially you create the scene, you create the reality.

Speaker B: And.

Speaker A: And what you do as an improv performer is essentially. Yes. And you've created a reality. Now it comes to me, I say, yes, I acknowledge your reality, and then I build upon that reality. Very, um, very well known performance art. A lot of actors and comedians do it. How did you, an industrial engineer who went to Virginia Tech, introduce. Yes. Introduce improv into your kaizen facilitation?

Speaker B: Okay, well, every kaizen is improv, because I have no idea what the problem is. I mean, sort of who the people are, the way they feel that day, all that kind of stuff. So you're dealing with that. But in a more specific example, if you look behind me, you see the book I wrote called the wheel of Sustainability. And it's all about sustaining the solution after the kaizen is over. So a lot of people talk about sustainability. Mine is, how do you actually do it? Okay. And I say it's so simple that even Adam could, uh, understand it. But what happens is I introduce the idea on the first day of any kaizen event because I don't want them to just solve the problem. I want them to keep the problem solved. So there are nine elements to the wheel sustainability. I'll bore you with those later. But at this point, what I found out about four years ago with the team was, well, you make it sound so simple. And you've asked us to create this and that and the other thing around sustainability, but we're not getting it. Make it easier. I'm, uh, like, okay. And it's easy for me, I guess, because it took 400 kaizen to get to this point. And, you know, I had a mission in the late 90s of what. What really sparked the whole idea. And we can go back to that if there's time. But. But here's the improv question. So on day three. Ish. Okay. At some point, the teams have come up with three or four little mini projects to really destroy the objective, to kill it. And so I said, you know, here's the deal. I've, uh, told you about this. Let me show you how it works with one of your projects. So one of you come up and be the skeptical, challenging employee, and I will Be one of the team members describing all the elements of sustainability that we've implemented around that specific project and let you ask questions about this net. So they all, you know, one or two of them have it in them to say, oh, we'll show you. You know, I'm the challenging employee. I can be challenging. Okay. So I. I really don't know what they're going to do. I don't know what kind of mood they're in. I'm not trying to disarm anybody. I'm just trying to show them what it looks like. But I. I've been an ops manager. I've been a supervisor. I've been a manager. I've had to hire and fire and deliver bad news and good news and all those things. And, you know, I, uh. Again, not the most patient person, but I have my ways. So anyway, so what happens is I'll talk to them about each element of the wheel, starting with leadership commitments. So that's the center hub of the wheel. What it means is that leaders care enough about this. They gave us the opportunity to do what we needed to do. They didn't tell us what the solution was. They gave us this week, we chartered it together, and here's where we are about this topic and that. That's the start of it. And then I walk around the other eight elements of the wheel based upon what they've done. Here's the visualization for it. Here's how we're going to train. Here's the message of why we did it and how it's going to help you. Here's the personalization of it. Here's the audit we're going to do. And usually by the second, third, or fourth element, they're not challenging me anymore. They're kind of going. They're like, oh. I'm like, no, man, you're not supposed to disarm that quick. That's not fun. Come on, hit me, hit me, hit me. So, you know, and then sometimes they'll get back into it, but. But then what that does the improv says, oh, we can do this. This isn't hard. This isn't scary. And once I made it relevant to the specific topic or project they were working on, it becomes real. Then many of them, not all of them, many of them catch on, and they put those elements in around all of their other projects. Now if they're really stuck, I'll do it and help them. You know, I have all sorts of templates and tools and things that I've built or Stolen shamelessly from other teams or whatever, just to make it easy on them.

Speaker A: I do have questions about the wheel of sustainability, and I will put a link to your book in the show. Notes the leadership hub in the center with the eight spokes of the wheel symbolizing the eight other elements of the wheel of sustainability.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: When you're doing improv, there's a very famous episode of the Office where Michael Scott is at an improv class, and Michael Scott is always destroying the reality that the others create and creating a reality that he thinks is much more interesting than the ones that they've done. And all, uh, essentially, he's a terrible improv player. Do you ever have that at a Kaizen events where people just try to upend the reality to make their own reality more important? And if that happens, how do you deal with that?

Speaker B: Yeah. So I think that was a long way of saying, are there any bad actors on?

Speaker A: Uh, I was just trying to be nice. I was just trying to be nice. Adam.

Speaker B: Hey, man. Sometimes people are having a bad day, they don't even want to be there. So I always say it's better to get, you know, people who want to be there, but that doesn't. That's not always the case. Have we had to escort somebody out of the room? Yes. Have I had to break up almost a fist fight a few times? Yes. Um, if I need to, I will take a break. I will take it on. I won't throw it on somebody else. One thing that's important to me about that, even if I don't work for your company, people are people. It's important the good of the team over the good of the one. Uh, there's a Star Trek.

Speaker A: Star Trek 2, Wrath of Khan.

Speaker B: Yeah. No, I think it was three. When Spock. It was. I don't know. Anyway, maybe that was two. Okay. Anyway, good pop culture references now. So sometimes you call a break, Sometimes you have to break a. What could get ugly. Um, sometimes the team leader. I mean, really the team leader is the key to all of this and my preparation with them and how we're going to align and deal because, you know, they got to live with those people. But I've had people just not in a good place. We've had to remove. We've had to coach, We've had to do all sorts of things. Uh, but you have to keep going. Like, if you just give. You can't give up because of one person, but they can really bring a team down if you're not careful. Uh, so I Have to be willing to escalate if I have to. I don't love that, but it has happened.

Speaker A: You mentioned Costanza earlier. What's it like if you have to walk somebody out of a kaizen event and then they come back sheepishly the next day, like Costanza did after he quit and hoped nobody would remember that he quit?

Speaker B: Well, everybody's going to remember, that's for sure. But I think they give them a little more respect if they're willing to come back. I think most of them have come back. I think a couple have not over. Over the years. Uh, I think you lose respect for people, if that. You know, hey, we're doing this. This ain't easy on us. Why. But you still. What you. And I don't know. And I always say, this is why I don't want to work in a convenience store. You don't know what kind of day that person's having when they walk into your convenience store. I don't know. I did not know that Joe would not come in because he was in jail. I did not know that. I did not know. We've lost people because deaths in the family, a fire in their house, uh, all, uh, sorts of things that are just. You don't know. So you try to respect and hope for good intent.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: They've got to work there the other 51 weeks of the year that I'm not there. Right. So. And by the way, some of them didn't work there long, so sometimes. So let's be, uh, let's talk the positive side. Sometimes the cream rises. I have seen people grow to such extremes during the week, and what I love to do is point that out to the leadership team. Hey, Joy was amazing. She is such a, uh, natural trainer. Did you know that? Did you know that she has three businesses on the side? Did you know? I mean, you really learn about people and their skills. Okay. You also have anchor draggers, so I'm going to give you. Can I give you an anchor dragger story?

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: We were trying to change the culture of a factory from one of production to one of quality. They were losing over $6 million in scrap against budget on an annual basis. This was a leadership kaizen. This was eight years ago. I knew the plant manager from prior work together when I worked at the corporation. His leadership team was part of this because they were trying to change culture, and they were mostly doing well. But then I noticed that the HR manager in the room, when we were agreeing and relying on stuff, was saying what the team was Saying. But as we walked out of the room a couple of times, I actually ran into her saying to somebody outside of the team, oh, uh, I don't know what they're doing in there. It's not, it's not right. It's stupid. I don't remember the exact words. So I, I didn't know her. I coached her. She had been there over nine years. Okay, so there were two or three things. Now, I did not stop the proceedings because I, I knew this was a much bigger issue than the week. Right. Much bigger issue. But I also, I was early in my consulting career. I did know this plant manager very well, so that was helpful. So at the end, I wanted his feedback on how I had done for him because I was new to this and I still make that a practice. But when you're really new to it and you're trying to make business, you want to know, what did I do well, what I do poorly? So he was really helpful in his answers. And then he says, can you give me some of your view of some of my people? And I said, I will, but I'm going to give you a chance to back out of that question, because there was one that was very. You have a bigger issue than what we did this week. And he said, oh, I need to know. So I did tell him. And he said, you know, I never realized that, but there were things like we were rolling out things and always seemed to be failing. Had been there nine years. He hadn't been there nearly that long, hadn't worked with her that long. So he says, well, I appreciate that. Uh, he said, I know that must not have been the easiest thing for you to do. I said, if you're going to ask me, I'm going to give you a way out, but then I'm going to tell you, because that is my. You wanted to know. Feedback is a gift, by the way. And, you know, I'm not trying to tattlet. But it was damaging his leadership team. Okay. So six weeks later, he gives me a ring you'll never believe. She did me a huge favor and resigned.

Speaker A: No kidding.

Speaker B: And then after she resigned, he found all this other evidence of all these things that she had been doing that were damaging to the organization. So when you work in this tight, confined space, I call it the five day road trip, you can be on your best behavior for an hour or two, but by the third day, I mean, everybody's burping and farting and doing whatever they're doing. I mean, you, you are who you are. So she showed, unfortunately who she was. And it was much deeper than just the week of us trying to change how we. How they led. M. Yeah, so. But I would say, on balance, it's typically more people rising to the top. And I love to share. Hey, Joy was amazing and Rick did this awesome stuff. Most creative person I've ever seen or the recently or whatever. And, you know, this person can do some stuff for you if you give them an. We had a 17 year old guy figure out all these IT things for us during the week. I went to the CEO. This was a furniture company. And I said, you got to put him in another. He was an hourly guy, the son of a supervisor or director or something. I said, this guy's got mad skills. I know you value your IT department. Just give Ryan a chance. He is amazing. This is what he did. Boom, boom, boom, boom. CEO looked at me, goes, damn. I said, who knew? I mean, he just had mad skills. Now, he did get promoted very quickly. Uh, then he did leave that company because somebody also recognized his talent. We still stay in touch via LinkedIn. Uh, but yeah, just amazing what he did in like three days. Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm going to throw another pop culture reference at you, Adam. You're like Columbo. You go in and you observe all these things and you bring them to the surface. Just one more question.

Speaker B: One more question. Um, I have used Columbo in one of my presentations for those that remember him. I was teaching an 8D problem solving course to a very large corporate. Corporate organization that should have known it. I said, who's the ultimate. Who's the OG Problem solver? And it's Colombo. You're right. One more question.

Speaker A: I want to get back to the Wheel of Sustainability, your book. And we talked about it a little bit. The leadership at the hub of the wheel and the eight spokes. Moving out from leadership as the spokes of the wheel. Could you tell us a little more about that? How you developed that and what problem that was designed to solve? Obviously, sustainability, but it's bigger than that. Otherwise it wouldn't be that long a book.

Speaker B: Uh, there's a lot of white space in pictures. Um, okay. And stories. There's 35 stories in the book. All right, so in. In Macon, Georgia, I used to get sent all over the country and all over the world to help teams fix stuff. And we didn't even call them Kaizen Events. Then I didn't call them, but that's what we were doing. So I was helping a team make their Production line better. This was late 90s, and first day, we're already doing stuff. I didn't even have PowerPoints. I'm just working at a flip chart saying, hey, let's go look at it. Let's go see what the biggest problems are. Let's figure out what we want to fix. Uh, let's fix it. That's oversimplification, of course. First day, we're doing some amazing stuff. The crew is loving it. I had four crew members, two mechanics, and a supervisor. That was my team. My sponsor was the, uh, ops manager. First day, dude never shows up. Never shows up. I'm like, what? So I went, end of the day, and I went to track him down. He was gone. Playing golf or something. I don't know. Second day, same thing. Now we're really smoking it. We're just. Now the line's running better than anybody remembered. This is on day two, nobody from leadership shows up. So at the end of the day, again, I go try to find the guy, and he's gone. Went to some high school softball game, baseball game. I don't know. Third day, I'm like, this is ridiculous. This team is doing so good, no one's coming to see it. So I. At, uh, a morning break, I think I get accused of not giving them breaks, but I'm pretty sure I did. So we took a break, and I went to his office. He happened to be there, and I said, man, your team's doing so good. It'd be awesome if you just show your commitment to them by coming out there. And the word commitment barely got out of my mouth. He stared at me and said, adam, if you're questioning my commitment, you can commit. You can question it. Back at corporate, which is almost, you're fired. I was like, uh, oh, okay. And so, of course, I walked out pretty upset, tail between my legs. But I didn't want the team to see it. And it took me a while to get over my anger. I was really angry at him. But then I realized it was my fault. My fault. I never set any expectation of what leadership should demonstrate to help the team feel like what they're doing is important. Okay? So I made it my mission to do that. Many years later, days later, the whole leadership team showed up. Coincidentally. You know, they were, like, really interested. So it worked. But not for the right reasons. Right. I guess shame is not the way to go here. So the problem we're trying to solve is that the problem gets solved, and then it stays solved through some system to sustain it. I created this framework I call the Wheel of Sustainability that basically before, during and after the kaizen, but mainly during, but a lot before. We're preparing leadership. So what's your role in it? What is going to come from this and what. What do you have to do with it? The most important day of the Kaizen is the day after. So the eight elements. I live in Amish country, looks like a wagon wheel. So that was the inspiration. I probably drew it about 12 years ago, conceptually. And then it became this wheel as a book in 2021. So the first thing is notifying the organization of the change. So this is all about change. So why did you do it and how does it help me? So the message has to be crisp and clear. Why and why and how not what did you do? Anybody can see that. Why did you do that to me and how does it help me? That's called notification. So the adult human being retains about 3% of what's said to them in a group. So they're not going to. But at least you know what the message is. So team develops the message. The next is called training and review. It means one to one, we're going to have a conversation, I'm going to show you how to do it and then you're going to show me you can do it. So we're actually going to do this together and I'm going to respect you and your time and we're going to. I'm going to show you that I know how to do it so I'm not afraid of it. And I don't do it in front of a group. It's just you and I. So that's called training and review. It's modeled after training within industry. We don't need to go through that. But those that are geeking out on this stuff, that's what it's modeled a much simpler version. The next is called visible evidence. It just means can I see from 20ft away that they're following standard or not following standard. Make it easy to. So it's uh, it's like 5s. It's like big signage. It's like the andons. It's like whatever you want it to be. Red, green, I don't care. But can I tell? Can they tell? Do they have to search for it? No. So that's the next step is this next element is called all tools available. It's not the best name for. It's the best I had. Did I give them everything they need to succeed and follow Standard so in 5s, it's the wrench sitting right where I need the wrench or the document or the computer program or the whatever. Okay. So I don't have to search for anything. It's right there where I need it. The critical stuff, of course. The fifth one's called clear benefits. So it means personally, you think it helps you instead of Adam told me to do it, it's like, oh, this is good. This is safer. This is easier. Uh, so when I'm not looking, you still want to do it because you think it's better. Well, how do we get there? We go to Gemba. We get people's insight, invite. We let them try stuff. They help us improve it. Okay. The sixth one's called layered audits. So you probably know what that means. But the person that does the work, they audit their work. We have some document that we're going to assess a three to five minute with the person, not to the person, with the person. Let's go look. Hey, how's it going? Show me the three most important things you're doing in this new standard. You show me, I go, that's great. Oh, I just learned this today. Uh, did you actually know this tool is right here for you? I didn't know that. So that's what that audit looks like. So plant manager does it less frequently. CEO does it even less frequently. Okay. Uh, the next one's called accountability. This is leadership accountability. What this means is if I see somebody off standard, I correct it immediately. If I see somebody on standard, I recognize it immediately. So I take the time when I'm in Gemba to go see it, assess it, and then recognize it. So I told the CEO once, you should be recognizing as much or more than you are correcting or coaching. Coach, back to standard. Recognize and reinforced standard. Okay. The last one's called recognition. It's what I call telling of stories. Somebody says, hey, man, we did this thing, and it really helped. Do you want to do some of that, too? Let me show you what we did. It was pretty cool. And the more you do that, the more it sustains. So all those elements together are trying to create a sustainable framework around any change. Not just Kaizen, but I apply it to Kaizen. We have to do it really fast. So it's got to be really quick and ugly. Who cares what it looks like, but ugly by Friday. Build the thing, do it, try it, and hopefully it works. So the image of the wheel comes from this. If a spoke is missing, the wheel is not as strong, but it still turns. If leadership, commitment. The hub is missing. The wheel falls entirely apart. There you go. That was a lot longer than you.

Speaker A: No, that was fantastic. And we've had more pop culture references in this episode than maybe any episode. And it made me think of another, Adam. It made me think of another. When you conceptually drew, um, the Wheel of Sustainability, it was much like Doc Brown conceptually drawing the flux capacitor that he showed to Marty McFly in 1955. You're Doc Brown with the Wheel of Sustainability.

Speaker B: Well, I. Maybe. I don't think I can make it go 88 miles an hour, though. I don't know if I can do that. But if I could figure out who's going to win the World Series next five years, that might be helpful.

Speaker A: Adam, this has been a tremendous conversation. We have not talked a lot about Kaizen, so this episode has really taught me a lot, and I'm sure it will have taught a lot to our listeners as well. As well as I hope, and I think because I've been entertained. Entertaining as well. And, Adam, I'm going to put, uh, all sorts of information, your LinkedIn, your professional LinkedIn, the Wheel of Sustainability, in the show notes, and I am going to invite you, as I mentioned a little bit ago, to talk about charters and some other things, because I've got my list of questions and I've got a whole bunch still that I haven't asked. So I'd love for you to come back and join us again sometime in the future.

Speaker B: Sure, sure. When you. When you. When you're ready. I've got a million of them. Um, yeah, so I do want people to know that Kaizen is a blast. You should use it for good, not evil. And. And. And the other thing is, you can solve your toughest manufacturing problems in one week or less. Do not be afraid to give it a go. Some people say that's too big to take on. Um, just make it better. You don't have to solve it all. Just make it better. So that's what I do. I try to help people solve their toughest manufacturing problems in one week. Or, uh, you don't even have to say Kaizen, for goodness sake. Just solve the problem and let's keep it solved.

Speaker A: We're making it better. That's the whole point of what we do. Making things better.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: Uh, Adam, I think this podcast has made our listeners better. So thank you so very much, and we will see you next time when I'm gonna hold you to coming back on the show.

Speaker B: I wouldn't miss it, Dan. As long as you want to bring me back, it's hard to get rid of me. All right.

Speaker A: Thanks, Adam.

Speaker B: All right. Thank you, Dan.

Speaker A: Additionally, I want to thank you, our audience, for spending some quality time with More Steam. You can email the show@qualitytimeoresteam.com and if you're enjoying the show, please leave a rating or review on your favorite podcast service. Also, please visit our website more steam.com to learn about the tools, training and software you need to transform your organization into a problem solving powerhouse. Join the Ranks of Fortune 500 companies that trust More Steam for their enterprise process improvement. We'll be back in two weeks with another episode of Quality Time with More Steam. Thanks again.