The Core Elements of Products that Connect People with Yasmin Kothari, Director of Product at Bumble

Speaker A: Welcome to Product Leaders Podcast, a podcast by Fire Art Studio. We delve into the world of product leadership to help empower you to improve end user experience. I'm your host, Dima Venglinski. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Dimon Winglinski. I'm host of the Product Leaders Podcast. Today our guest is Yasmin Kosari. Yasmin is a product leader who is motivated by building technology that helps people connect. She is currently Director of Product at Bumble for Friends. Previously, as a Director of Product at Asana, she led teams working on core product features and revenue driven enhancements. Before that, Yasmin held product roles at companies like Airbnb and PayPal. She started her career in management consulting at McKinsey. Hello, Yasmin. It's nice to have you today.

Speaker B: Hi there. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker A: Tell us a, uh, bit about your background first and your current position.

Speaker B: Yeah, so in college, I studied economics, and I particularly love microeconomics, or the study of how individuals make their decisions. So ever since then, I've been fascinated by how people interact, interact with the world, interact with each other, what goes into their decision making, how do they build their relationships and things like that. I started my career off in management consulting. I spent two years at McKinsey, and that was an awesome first job because I gained a foundational skill set in looking at a big, meaty strategic question and then breaking it down into bite sized pieces and then creating an action plan for each of those pieces to be solved. But the thing that was missing for me in that role was really being involved in execution, like getting to see the fruits of my labor in the real world. And that's what led me to product management, because I really love deeply getting to know users, building strategy to help serve their needs, and then building real products, getting those products into people's hands, seeing how they react, using their feedback to make those products better and better. So that feedback loop is really what gets me amped up what I did

Speaker A: to Bumble from Essena.

Speaker B: So a decade ago, I spent some time thinking about what really drives me, and I ended up writing a personal mission statement for my career. And that mission statement said, I aspire to build technology that helps people find meaningful connection. And I've really used that as my North Star ever since. So I've been lucky to work on that mission in various ways. At, uh, Airbnb, I built products that really help guests and hosts from all over the world connect with one another. And then at Asana, I built Products that helped coworkers build trust, build accountability, and really make work more pleasant and efficient. But for me, the ultimate manifestation of my mission statement was to work for a company like Bumble. Bumble is the woman first dating and social networking app. So when this opportunity came up, I felt like I really couldn't let it pass. And now in my role here, I'm leading an effort called Bumble for Friends, or Bumble bff, which is our friendship finding mode within the Bumble app. So BFF is a place where people can really find platonic connection. It really helps people find and build their community, and it's really, really interesting space. Of course, online dating is still a crucial component to our brand, but now we're thinking about how can we help support our members in finding connection through all stages of life. Like whether you're single and looking for a partner, or you've just moved to a new city and you want to meet new folks, or if you're a new mom looking for a community.

Speaker A: Oh, this sounds really great. So you build connections on all levels, right?

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: I wish I had this app, uh, before I had friends.

Speaker B: Well, you can still use it and make more friends.

Speaker A: Yeah, totally. It sounds really amazing why it's important to build products that inspire connections among end users.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I think it is critical right now to build those products that really help people connect. And it's more critical now than ever. There are a bunch of recent trends that make this type of work really important. So I'll talk about three of those trends. First, let me touch on connection at work. Remote work is now the norm, right? According to the US Census, the number of people working from home tripled during the pandemic. And we all know that that trend is here to stay. And there are a ton of benefits to this new flexibility. But there are also some real downsides to not seeing your coworkers face to face every day. And there's a need for tools for services that can help employees bridge communication gaps, collaborate and brainstorm effectively, and socialize with one another all remotely. So there's a huge opportunity at work. Secondly, speaking of socializing, the pandemic has really compounded an ongoing loneliness epidemic. Right now, if you just Google loneliness epidemic, you'll find a million articles, a plethora of data that suggest that loneliness has been on the rise for many years, and that's only been accelerated by the pandemic. Gen Z and millennials have been reported as the loneliest generations in history. And everyone is looking for ways to feel Less lonely. Based on some data that bumble commissioned in 2021, 84% of US based women said that maintaining strong friendships is a priority in their life. So that's the second trend. And then lastly, I would say that in this global pandemic that we've all experienced together, our needs for community have shifted and the ways that we find that community have shifted. So we ran a study at Bumble in May 2021 that showed that one out of three respondents has actually tried to make friends online. And that's even more common amongst Gen Z. So we ran another survey in December 2022 where over 80% of Gen Z respondents met more than one friend online, including apps. So a majority of these folks are now open to meeting new friends online and they're doing that. And what this suggests is that meeting people online in a platonic capacity is here to stay. So what I'm really hoping to do with Bumble BFF is to normalize that and make it accessible to everyone.

Speaker A: Yeah, sounds really promising. I guess your app should be tremendously grow during the pandemic and these trends that you explained.

Speaker B: Right, Exactly. Yes.

Speaker A: Good for Bumble, Definitely.

Speaker B: And hopefully also good for the world.

Speaker A: Yes, definitely. Okay. What is the most important in products that help foster connections and community?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that there are three really important aspects of designing these products, especially in a B2C world, and those are setting the right norms, building trust, and making interactions seamless. So on, um, BFF specifically, we're helping people find friendship at all stages of life. From finding a study group in college, to someone to host playdates for your kids, to someone to just get coffee with. So I'll give some examples of those three aspects in our Bumble BFF world. So first, one thing that we want consistent across all those experiences is, is that interactions are filled with kindness and positive intent. So we set norms right from the start. It's really, really important to remember that your product and your company is a part of the conversation and an authority figure in a sense. So we think deeply about how to take on that role as Bumble and set norms throughout the experience. For example, in the onboarding we have the Bumble Pledge. Someone signs up for Bumble, they must sign a pledge to follow the company's values, to follow our community guidelines, and to treat each other with kindness and respect. Second, I mentioned building trust. So this really means that your members can trust that you will follow through on those norms. And we've built our platform around kindness Respect, equality, and we really make sure to hold our users accountable to that. So, for example, if someone doesn't follow our guidelines and norms, they can be flagged. They will very quickly be investigated and potentially banned from bumble. We, we also have trust building features like photo verifications, where like, if you see a blue shield on someone's profile, you know that they've gone through our photo verification process and you know that they are who they say they are. So building out a really robust suite of trust and safety features is important. And then third, I think it's critical for your product to make interactions seamless. We spoke earlier about normalizing, making friends online. In order for us to do that, we have to make sure that it's not awkward and it feels as genuine as possible. So, for example, we've built out a product feature called Profile badges where you can indicate your values, your lifestyle choices directly on your profile, things like your fitness habits or your religious practices, or even your astrology sign. And that really helps conversations flow early on. It helps you get over that awkward first step. And then members can indicate what they're looking for. I'm looking for someone to volunteer with, someone to travel with, someone to have play dates with. And by surfacing that information at the right time in the member flow, we can foster really, really seamless connections and help folks get over that first conversation hurdle.

Speaker A: Got it. How do you think about helping your team of product managers in their professional growth?

Speaker B: I think it's important to realize that growth means different things for different people, even at different points in their lives. So professional growth is really more of a climbing wall than a ladder because it's not just a linear race to the top. There are lots of paths, lots of footholds, uh, that you could take. And, um, maybe most importantly, you should really be enjoying the journey along the way. So when I work with a direct report or someone who has reached out for some coaching, I follow three steps. First, I start with the why. Like, what motivates this person? What are they hoping to get out of their career in the next week, in the next month, in the next year? What is their why? And then second, we focus on the what. What skills are they proficient in? What skills do they need to add to their tool belt? What are the gaps? And then third, we figure out the how. So that's really the tactical how do we find the right opportunities to pair those gaps and those growth needs with business opportunities so that we can really figure out what projects they can take on and what skills they can practice and this process can be scaled up over months and years, or it can be also scaled down to like a 15 minute exercise to figure out what you're going to do this week. So I really encourage folks to use this framework whenever they're feeling stuck.

Speaker A: Do you use this framework in your

Speaker B: company all the time? Yes, I use it with people on my team and I also use it for myself.

Speaker A: Oh, good. I guess I have one question left for you. What is one mistake you've made that taught you the most?

Speaker B: Well, I've made many mistakes, but one that comes to mind is trying to do everything all the time. I think oftentimes product people, because we are wearing a generalist hat and we're talking to so many different functions and people, we often try to fill all the gaps and that's really important. Sometimes it's important to be able to do a little bit of many different jobs. But there is also a limit to that where you have to realize that you can't actually do everything well. And maybe you actually just need to find the right resourcing so that people who are specialized in different functions can take on that work. And so that has happened to me early in my career when I was managing really, really large teams and trying to do a lot of work to unblock large teams of engineers. And I realized that I was not actually doing them a service. By trying to fill all the gaps, it would actually be more efficient for me to find the right person to do all of those different roles so that instead of doing a hundred things with 20% efficiency, all of those things could get done with a hundred percent efficiency. So I really think it's important in moments when you're feeling overwhelmed or feeling like there's way too much on your plate to take a second, take a step back and think about what is the right way to get this work done in a really high quality way, as opposed to just stretching yourself thin and burning out and not providing the team with what they need.

Speaker A: Yeah, totally agree. As a CEO of a company, I understand it 100%.

Speaker B: I am sure you must have a lot on your plate at all times.

Speaker A: Yeah, more than I can afford, time wise. Okay then, thank you very much for your time. It was incredibly interesting.

Speaker B: Thanks Dima.

Speaker A: Have a good day. Product Leaders podcast is brought to you by Fire Art Studio. I was the host, Dima Venginski. To find out more about Fire Art and how we aim to build a brand that will contribute to the world with useful products that empower people and make their lives easier. Visit FireArt Studio. Search for product leaders in Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google Podcasts, or anywhere else podcasts are found. Make sure to click subscribe so you never miss any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at firered Studio, thank you very much for listening.