The Future of Product Management Summit: AI, Alignment & Impact

Speaker A: Want to take your product management career to the next level on your schedule? Now you can. With Pragmatic Institute's product manager certification in a new on demand format. Learn proven frameworks, market driven strategies and real world best practices. Now available in a fully flexible, self paced format with interactive activities, case studies and flexible learning, you'll gain the skills and certification to drive real impact for your team and organization. Get the world's most sought after product certification. Now available anytime, anywhere, foreign. Hello and welcome to the Pragmatic Product Chat series where we tackle the biggest challenges facing today's product management, product marketing and other market and data driven professionals with some of the best minds in the industry. I am Rebecca Calageris for Pragmatic Institute and, and your host for this episode. And today I am extremely excited to have on, uh, someone who I used to be very proud to call a team member, uh, a good friend, a great community manager, a great guy and a great singer. So if you ever get him in a meeting and you can like get him to sing, uh, Mr. Eddie Gordon. Welcome Eddie.

Speaker B: Pshaw, pshaw, I think is the proper response to that. Uh, I was worried for a second you were going to say someone who I used to be very proud of.

Speaker A: He used to be great guys. We're hoping it's going to come back. We'll see how this gets. No, he is amazing. And uh, and again, I still think of him as a team member but one of my, I had the pleasure of having him on my marketing team

Speaker B: quite some time I think. I mean uh, we may have to fill in the audience on the exact situation, but I still consider you a team member as well maybe would be the more appropriate response. Uh, uh, just briefly, uh, for everyone. Rebecca was the marketing director who hired me years as the uh, courseware designer. So um, ah, incredible opportunity to work with her. And then she retired to the wilds of Maine where she creates poultices, uh, or something in her free time, I don't know.

Speaker A: It's where I do other marketing and pieces but I still get to do the podcast and he is on today because he and I are co hosting, uh, the Future of Product Management Summit which is going to be October 16th of this year. And uh, it's like noon to five eastern. Eastern. That's where the cool people live, Eddie. Ah. And uh, it's going to be fabulous and it's free to attend. We've got a great lineup of people and a great experience and so uh, that's why we're here today.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So Eddie, tell a little bit about your role at Pragmatic now, since you don't do the courseware design anymore, and a little bit about sort of that relationship to this event.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I, I have the best job at the company. Um, I, I say that without hesitation. So, uh, I am the community manager for the Pragmatic Alumni community. Or the pack, if you're cool. The pack. Um, and what that means is that every single person who takes a Pragmatic Institute course is immediately enrolled into our online community. The online community has very quickly become the industry hub, uh, for not only networking, uh, but for resources, for tools, for the templates, for news updates, uh, and for specific events, uh, uh, as far as community events, Pragmatic Institute events. Um, and my absolute pleasure every single day is to wake up and make sure that that is all running smoothly so I get to interact with the most incredible people, uh, who are generous and wise, who know 10 times more than I do about the product industry, and let me use them to create more incredible content for all of the other users as well. Uh, so that's why I say I have the. I have the best job at the company.

Speaker A: Awesome.

Speaker B: Uh, and as far as that relates to, uh, the upcoming summit. So I am, uh, a part of the marketing team that has been doing all of the hard work, much, uh, more, uh, hard work than me, uh, to create this amazing upcoming summit in the community. We are talking about the summit, we are preparing for the summit, we are advertising to register for the summit, and then we are also starting to pump up the speakers, we are starting to pump up the content, uh, that's going to be discussed, the format that it's going to be discussed in, and spreading the word throughout the product industry, uh, so that folks can take advantage of this incredible resource. Um, that's coming up very quick.

Speaker A: I know last year we had 2,500 registrants, uh, and I suspect this year we might even do more. So it's going to be great.

Speaker B: We are already on track to beat that. Uh, the number was going up this morning, and I don't have it directly in front of me, but, yes, we will far surpass that. I'm confident.

Speaker A: And then. So I also think one of the roles the community played in this is as we were building the agenda for the future of Product Management Summit. And obviously there were at the many people building this. Right. But one of the things they really pulled from were what are the conversations that are most common, most popular, most happening in the community? Right. What are those conversations that are coming up organically. And let's make sure that we're touching on those, which is a place. I know you have lots of insights, Eddie, in terms of what is it? What is the most common ones?

Speaker B: Well, you've got your good old standbys. First and foremost. Uh, implementation is a huge one. Folks come out of the Pragmatic Institute courses on fire. Uh, they, they very often talk about these light bulb moments, these revolutionary moments in the, in the class where they realize, oh my goodness, this is how the product industry should have been running the whole time. I'm going to go back to my, uh, office and we're going to implement all of this. And then they get there and uh, sometimes reality gets in the way. Uh, the people that weren't in the course aren't bought in yet, or they can't get buy in from their stakeholders yet. Um, or, uh, they just don't know where to start because there's so much that needs to be done. So implementation is always a huge discussion topic. We, uh, have an entire, uh, discussion, uh, group dedicated just to implementation. Uh, so that is a big one. Um, but more and more, and I think this will come as a surprise to no one, the topic of artificial intelligence specifically in the product industry is dominating discussions, uh, in the online community, in the pack. Um, and that is not, I mean, there are so many different emotions that you could feel about that. Some people are scared, understandably, some people are thrilled. Some people are eating this up and using it every chance they get and eager to talk about it, eager to tell other people, um, how to use it and how to make the most of it in the product industry. Um, we have an entire discussion group related to AI in the product industry and it is by far the most active. It has the most members, it has the most discussion posts coming in every single day. Uh, so that I would say is absolutely the topic, uh, in the Pragmatic alumni community for the past good while. And I think it's gonna, I think it's gonna continue for a bit.

Speaker A: I'm not going anywhere. Just spoiler alert. It's not a fad. Uh, and I think that's why we were so thrilled to really land Teresa Torres as the sort of keynote speaker for this event. She's an amazing author, she's a speaker, she's a product discovery coach. Um, and I love just even the title of her presentation, right? AI Changes everything and nothing at all.

Speaker B: Beautifully contradictive, right? But I so tried to do it

Speaker A: right, because there is so much Hype, and, and there's reality and there's. There's so many, um, opportunities, and all those things feel different, but the principles have to stay the same or you get failure. And that's a lot of what she's going to talk about, right, Is that everyone is racing to add features, but in that racing, if they're not. If they're not holding onto the foundations that are so important in product, what we're just seeing is a ton of. Of products fail. AI slop, as she calls him, which I think it's a fabulous thing.

Speaker B: Um, A.I. slop. Uh, there's another, less, uh, couth term that I know you. You could throw out. I don't. I don't know what the rating is of our podcast officially, but don't make

Speaker A: me put a warning on this episode. Eddie.

Speaker B: Um, the thing that I love so much about Teresa's approach is that she is so practical. She, uh, and very much in line with the pragmatic coursework, uh, with the methodology. Uh, she is, uh, dare I say it, very pragmatic in her approach, in that she's constantly taking us back to. Hold on a second. Uh, what are we doing? Who are we doing it for and why are we doing it? Uh, which aligns so well with, you know, the pragmatic mantra. What problem are we trying to solve? Uh, who is our market, exactly? Are we creating something that people actually want to buy? Um, and Teresa's message aligns so well with that. She's just an absolutely perfect fit for our audience. Uh, and they're going to eat it up, I think.

Speaker A: I know. And one of the things that she's, you know, is going to talk about is kind of some of the hard truths here. And not only do I think there are things that some of us need to hear, but I think there are things we have to give back. In the organizations we work with. Sometimes we need to reflect back those hard truths for some people who are maybe too, who are forgetting the realities. Right. They are bought into the hype and forgetting some of the realities. So I think her conversation is going to help us as we have to reflect back some of those warnings internally. Um, and it's also really interesting when we think about AI and the expenses. There was a really recent study from MIT Media Lab that came out that said that 95%, 95%, Eddie, have organizations have seen no measurable return of investment in their technology and these technologies.

Speaker B: I felt like you were reprimanding.

Speaker A: I know.

Speaker B: I was like, did he do it?

Speaker A: He's one of them. I'm just kidding. Uh, and, you know, some people can argue ROI takes a while, but that's still. That's a scary number that. Not to be able to really see.

Speaker B: You say, I didn't do it. Um, I would be. No, no, I would be lying if I said I didn't. I wasn't trying. I'm right there. I'm as interested in the topic as anybody else. I try it, I see what it does. But I absolutely see her point, and especially the point of the, uh. Was it the, the article that you were just talking about, the 93% not seeing the ROI? The incredible point that that article made for me was that so often, uh, one person in a company using AI to create content and pass it on to their coworkers is passing on the effort to the coworkers. So the effort that should have been put forward upfront to make sure that some message is in line, uh, makes sense, actually, is that effort is simply transferred to the person receiving the message, who then needs to go through the effort of decoding the message trying to figure out, why did I even get this? What is it trying to tell me to do? Oh, hold on a second. Was this AI? Oh, now what do I do? How do I confront my coworker about whether or not this was actually written by a human and all of that effort is lost that could have been spent on something more productive? That's a big deal and probably an issue, uh, that the profits of AI did not see coming down the line. Something that we only notice in the trenches here, right?

Speaker A: If you didn't spend the time to add the. To. To really like to, to add the human element, the, the context, the intelligence to the work the AI did, then while you're. You're just passing on the problem to someone else. And not only is it the rework time that you talk about, it's that relationship piece. Like, what do you think of me going forward? If you're like, I don't know what I'm gonna get from her. It could just be what ChatGPT spit out. That's not awesome, right? Like, it does not, does not make a great reputation and it is a, it is a big cost.

Speaker B: She sure increased her, uh, emoji usage in her emails to me. I have to point that out side

Speaker A: note here real quick, though. I have traditionally been a big M Dash user. I think they're same. And this I hate. It kills me. It kills me I'm not supposed to use them anymore. Because they're like, oh, because now I can tell, like, but, but they didn't. And it's a really good punctuation.

Speaker B: And Rebecca, you know, I will always be a graphic designer at heart. I know the difference between an em, M dash and N dash and a hyphen and I use them appropriately and now I can't use any of them or people think I'm a robot.

Speaker A: It's awful. Okay, side note. But all right, so Teresa's gonna be amazing. Uh, but we also have an instructor panel that's uh, going to be talking about AI and really on the product strategy side. Right. And so we've got Dan Corbin, Amy Graham, Will Scott. That's a lot of strong IQ product expertise in one space.

Speaker B: Oh, just strong IQ IQs in general. I think we can say that these are, these are smart, smart folks. Absolutely. Um, now the thing that I appreciate so much about this particular set of our instructors, you know, they've, they've got a day job, right? These folks are hard working teachers at heart.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: They are knowledgeable in the product industry. They know our pragmatic courses inside and out. They're constantly working to keep those updated, timely and relevant. Their expertise in AI and specifically application of AI to the product industry, uh, is a labor of love on their part. They, they, they took this on because, uh, they were interested in it, they saw potential, and now they are at, ah, near obsessive levels of understanding. And I'll tell you, um, I depend on these folks more for updates on the, uh, abilities of AI than I do any other news source because they are literally on the bleeding edge of what it can do, not just for anybody, anywhere in the world, but specifically what it can do for our industry as well. This, uh, is going to be a cool panel and you know, you're going

Speaker A: to leave with like, oh, I can do this tomorrow. Like little tips they always get every time I talk to them. They're like, do you know what I did today? I'm like, no, but tell me because then I will use that. Um, love that. All right, so we have the 2ai, right? So we've got our events, we've got the 2ai keynote and the panel. And then what I love is that you talk about implementation being a big thing in the community, right? But like when we talk about implementation, it's sort of like from end to end, right? Like, what should I build to, how do I market it to all this? And so you guys, like, we really put together something that talks about all three parts Alignment, both executive and team alignment. Because that you just need. Right. That's the hard thing. Like you said, some people went to the courses and some people didn't. Some people understand what the market is and some people don't. So there is this need for alignment no matter where you are. And then we've got a couple of others that go in there, too. So now that I've just hinted at them, we'll dive into each one. How about that?

Speaker B: Sure, let's do it.

Speaker A: Now that I'm giving away all the goodies, but Hope, uh, Karian, she's amazing. Product leader, uh, fearless products. So what she was talking about is why is that so difficult to achieve alignment? And I think it's not, you know, it's not AI Sexy, but it is probably the biggest obstacle and issue that we face in product, period. Because there is nothing, nothing as a product management or product marketer that you can do alone.

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't want to call it anti AI, but I mean, that topic, uh, is. Is. Is about soft skills. It's about person. Persons talking to persons, uh, which you. You can't do if you have this veneer, uh, uh, of polish in front of you that requires people to be genuine, Genuine with each other. It requires people to understand, uh, goals and abilities. Uh, so she's going to be fantastic at that one. And really a beautiful counterweight, I think, to, uh, what will be an intense discussion on AI.

Speaker A: I agree. Because I think one of the things she talks about, uh, sometimes we think alignment is getting that quick. Yes. But we all know sometimes that quick. Yes. Is like, uh-huh, sure, Eddie, that sounds great. Right? Like it's not realistic at all. And she really talks about how do I, like, surface the assumptions and, and the. The hidden things to make sure that when we agree, we really know what we're agreeing to and that there's true alignment. And I think that that is. It is. You might call it a soft skill, but it's a power skill. Uh, and such a necessary, necessary one. Yeah. So that one's going to be amazing. Plus, in all of these, you get to see Eddie and I as hosts. I mean, like, that's. Let's not forget that.

Speaker B: Oh, don't scare the people away, Rebecca. Let's talk more about the knowledgeable people.

Speaker A: And then they're like, you know what? I hear enough of Rebecca already. Thanks, but you don't get enough, Eddie. Um, and then we have Matt LeMay, who is a product consultant and Advisor. Right. And he's going to be talking about impact first product teams, I believe. Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah. Intriguing. Impact first product teams. Uh, uh, I'm, I'm intrigued to hear where this goes. It seems like it's going to be right in line with the, the pragmatic mantra. What problem are we trying to solve here? It's going to align perfectly with that message. So I'm excited. Um, uh, I don't know much more about his uh, particular presentation, so that'll be a good one.

Speaker A: Yeah, I know he often talks about impact both from. Yes, yes, there's the customer impact, but there's also the business impact. And like that is a reality. We want products customers love, but we want products that make our company successful. Like that is part of our goal. And not only products that will, but we as product people also need to be able to see, speak to that business impact. Um, and that's both in the products we create and how we market them. Because like again, if I can't speak to the impact, I'm not going to get the approval and I'm not going to get the budget and therefore I will not have the impact that I so desperately want. So.

Speaker B: Right. Not every problem is yours to solve field. Right. Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah. So Matt is great and he's super dynamic, so he's going to be amazing. And then we're bringing it all home on, you know, the parts that are always closest to me. You're on the right side. You're thinking go to market with uh, Tamara Graminski, who is a product marketing leader and founder of PM M Kit

Speaker B: pmm. We uh, we uh, spend a lot of effort in the community making sure that we balance between our PM and our PM. M folks, uh, it's very important to remember that uh, you know, the job doesn't stop when we've made a cool thing.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Mhm. Right. There's a, there's a whole nother side of the pragmatic framework, uh, where we uh, make sure that we're taking that really cool and we are selling it to the right people at the right place in the right time and speaking the right language as we do so. So, uh, Tamara is going to be uh, the expert in the room on that and I'm excited to hear what she has to say. There's definitely going to be a huge portion of our audience that is coming just for that and just for her.

Speaker A: Well, and I also think that it's nice because when we think about positioning sometimes we did an ebook on this recently that there's like a power struggle over who owns position positioning. I think one of her main points is like that's no right. Positioning is a, uh, is not only like it's a place of alignment that is no one's own. It. It is where one of those places we align which again kind of a through line from everything with Hope and even Matt's, you know, lining to business impact is like AI and alignment is a really nice throughput on these I think for, for what we want to do.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I mean as you pointed out there, the, the speaker set covers the process from uh, the beginning to the end. Uh, everyone in the product industry, no matter what their title is, is gonna find good advice.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: To take back specifically to their desk.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: If they're even leaving their desks. We haven't addressed that yet. This is an online conference.

Speaker A: You can do it in your chat.

Speaker B: They can't leave their desks. Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's. I was gonna just touch on it because like, okay, so it's noon to 5 Eastern. Um, but a couple of things I love about it, right. Like again it's virtual. So you do it in your jam jams. Um, but also the way it's set up and you guys did this last year and I'm not going to lie, I was a little skeptical. I'm like, is that, is that enough time? People who were you now? I was. But I was wrong. That's okay. Uh, having 30 minute sessions with 15 minute live Q and A's. Right. Really? Then uh, it's just so interactive. Right. And you have all these people in the chat as well. It is a. It doesn't feel like you're alone and people are talking at you while you're, you know, checking your email over here. I. It was so much more immersive than I could have expected.

Speaker B: Yeah, it absolutely will be. There was some discussion early on about should we, you know, just for emergency sake, should we have folks record their keynote presentations in advance? Um, and, and, and here's a little inside baseball. I, uh, don't even know if I'm allowed to say this yet, but Teresa definitely said, yeah, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm doing it live. Live or nothing. It's going to be live. So. Yes, yes. Engaging. Yes, live. Um, and it won't feel as long as the uh, numbers will tell you that it is.

Speaker A: So when only I'm hosting. Uh, because Eddie's gone. You'll know why now. But I mean it is, it's about like, we're here live, right? If I don't want you, I want it, I want it live. I want to interact. And I think the Q and A is also, um, sometimes like in these, when they're really good presenters and speakers like this, the Q and A is so tight. Right? Um, it's such a ping pong of ideas that grow on each other that I think it's some of the most exciting parts of the piece.

Speaker B: And it will be, I have to say, uh, on the occasions that I get to facilitate, uh, the webinars, the Q and A is always my favorite part. I absolutely love, because you get this real time feedback. What are the people actually hearing from the presentation? What are they taking away? What are they missing? Uh, every once in a while, if you get several questions on some point that, you know, was said in the presentation, it's a, it's a great opportunity to say, hey, uh, can we clarify this thing? Folks are still hungry for some more. Uh, so absolutely love Q and A sessions. And uh, yeah, these are going to be cool.

Speaker A: And actually I think our chats, even in our webinars, I've had the pleasure of hosting a few webinars recently. The chats are strong, right? I mean, because we are bringing peers, right? These are a lot of people. I mean we have definitely some early entrants, but a lot of the people, the majority of the people have been in product for several years, some for decades. So they bring real questions, but also real perspectives to these conversations. That means that not only do you have the seven experts that we just talked about, but you have a whole community of peers, uh, which is what you see all the time in your community to provide feedback and insights. And like, oh man, I did this and it actually worked. Not theoretical 100%.

Speaker B: And I mentioned that at the top too. The nature of our audience, uh, they are well informed, they are intelligent, they are experienced and they are generous. And those things combined makes for such an incredible resource, uh, to newcomers, to the audience and to each other. It is this beautiful symbiotic relationship of experience and generosity, uh, that just makes interacting with this industry so wonderful.

Speaker A: I remember when we were first starting the community, uh, which was, gosh, five years ago, six years ago. Yeah. Um, one of the things that we had about is we had so much many givers, right? Everyone who really wanted to be about it at first was just really excited to give, to, to be a mentor, to give feedback, to provide like help people, mistakes. And it's still that way but you know, those people also have questions. But it's, it's so interesting and neat to see, um, because they're, they're just passionate. It's a, this is the look, being in product management and product marketing are the best professions in the world, but they are hard, they are undefined. And it's good to have that tribe of people to help you be like, okay, I am not crazy.

Speaker B: You're 100, right? 100. I've always wanted to try Blacksmith, but I'll take community, uh, manager for the product industry any day.

Speaker A: Blacksmith could be its own kind of cool lumberjack. I would just be hurt. All right, um, okay, so we have, we're doing this uh, virtually right? There is, um, there's chats, there's live Q and A, there are live presenters.

Speaker B: Let's talk about the format. So this is a different platform. Uh, we did it last year. Uh, this year is a different platform. It is actually Zoom events, uh, the folks at Zoom, uh, shout out to them. They have done an incredible job of um, finding the assets and the benefits of an in person conference and doing their best to replicate those in the online format. So you know, you've got a, you've got ways, uh, to network, you've got ways to reach out directly to the uh, speakers and the instructors. You've got ways to promote yourself and your, and your own, um, industry and your own company. Um, all of these sort, uh, of virtual, uh, ways to interact in, in ways that you would have done were this an in person event. Now all that said, they also are taking advantage of, of the specific opportunities of an online conference as well. So there are absolutely things that you can do while you are sitting in front of these amazing machines, windows to the world that are completely interactive, uh, that you could not do if you were sitting in a big conference hall someplace else. So that means you're going to get real time updates, polls, uh, you'll be able to download the uh, tools and the resources mentioned by the speakers, uh, at the click of a button. This amazing, uh, opportunity that an online forum offers that you would not get were this in person. And as you mentioned, you can do it in your jammies as well. Which, uh, I will not, I will not do that.

Speaker A: I will also not be in my jammies. We will not be hosting in our jammies. Uh, I will also not be there like in the, you know, Oscars gown. It'll be somewhere in between.

Speaker B: I'll wear the Oscars gown. How about that? That'll be great.

Speaker A: One of the other things about the conference, um, and like, again, the conference is October 16, noon to 5 Eastern. But one of the other things that I think is neat is we talk about that not only are we going to be talking about the future of product, but we're also, as attendees and participants, kind of shaping the future of product. Right. Like, there's an opportunity to give insights, to share opinions, to, to, um, provide inputs that are going to shape the future of product. And really also some of the research and reports that are coming out soon from us.

Speaker B: Right. Uh, I mean, you're probably speaking specifically the Pragmatic Institute industry report that we've released, that has been released to great aplomb in the past. Um, uh, all of that information is sourced, um, from the industry. But our specific audience, the audience for this summit, the audience in the community, is where that starts. Um, those are folks that we already know, are anxious to share, that have the experience that we want to hear about. And so during the summit, they will have the first opportunity to begin contributing to what will become those reports, those industry reports, uh, that Pragmatic releases that, uh, so generously. And, uh, that's exciting. I mean, to get to feel like not, uh, only are you learning about your own industry, but you're giving feedback on what your experience has been that is going to be collated into this report that will influence the industry as well. So you're not just an audience, you are contributors as well.

Speaker A: Absolutely. All right, so, okay, October 16th, that's the day you, you can register online. It is free. Pragmatic Institute institute.com conference. Eddie, what is, what are you most looking forward to from the event?

Speaker B: I'm most looking forward to co hosting with my good friend Rebecca. That's what I'm most looking forward to. Uh, but to expand on that, and I've touched on this several times already, um, our alumni, um, our audience, our Pragmatic alumni community that will be in attendance are just some of the coolest people in the world. And this is an opportunity not just to sit and listen to amazing professionals with awesome input, but, uh, to mix and to mingle and to make new friends and to network, uh, with some of the coolest people in the best industry, the industry that loves solving problems in the world. I mean, how do you get better than that? Right? So that's what I am looking forward to.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, very similar. I'm looking forward to just the energy that I know is going to be there when we get all of these passionate people with sparking ideas. We're sharing insights. Like, I love that sort of energy that when you leave, you feel energy to energize. Sounds like a. Not the most special turn of frame.

Speaker B: I'll accept it.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: I'll accept it.

Speaker A: Yes. But, you know, you really do feel energized. And with that energy and with some of the, like, the. I know the tools we're going to give, it's going to accelerate things. We're going to see. Just not like, oh, that was a great session, but, oh, that's a great session. And right away, right away, I could do things differently. I could change the way we're aligning. I can think about AI and have different AI conversations than I could. And that really will. That carries that energy forward. It helps me accelerate the things that I'm really passionate about.

Speaker B: It will absolutely happen. And, uh, we'll be talking about just that in the pragmatic alumni community after, uh, the summit as well. We'll do recaps in there.

Speaker A: Oscar post show back there.

Speaker B: The post. The. The party. It's the post show party is what it'll be. Oh, yeah, it's exclusive, so you're kind of a big deal if you get access to that one. But yeah, we'll be digesting there. Uh, we'll be, uh, releasing even further resources because, as always, uh, we discover more things. Oh, that would be a cool resource because it happened live and in the moment. Well, let's make it. We'll release it in the community. So, uh, lots more, uh, post show, uh, fun to happen in the community after the summit too.

Speaker A: Awesome. All right, Eddie, this was amazing. Thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it and I will talk to you before October 16th, of course. But I am very much looking forward to hosting this with you.

Speaker B: So am I.

Speaker A: All right, everyone, that does it for today's episode, thanks for listening and don't forget to join us next week when we tackle another great topic designed to help you elevate your product, your company and your career.