Six Times They Almost Shut Down; Today It Makes ₹60 Crore Every Month | Akshayakalpa CEO - Shashi Kumar

Speaker A: What has been the disaster of Indian agriculture?

Speaker B: I'll tell you.

Speaker A: I'm extremely critical of investors because thousands of people who are five bloody. If you become a graduate, okay, and you want to become an engineer, you want to become a doctor, you want to become a lawyer, or uh, you want to become any profession you want to choose. But uh, there's no aspiration to become a farmer. There's no farming school in India. Can you believe it? Tell me one example of positive talking about farming. Only thing we talk about farming is negative. I have a great example of farmer born in a farming family. Family is still farming. My father is an Ireland farmer, but he never wanted me to be a farmer. Can you leave at 700,000 rupees a month in this world? See, you need to really understand we have resource constraints. Land is fixed, land is not infinite. And resources he has not accessed in have fixed. So within that only way we can make progress is productivity. 2,800 farmers enabling 700 crores of business. Before joining Akshay Kalpa, they are earning every month 10,000 rupees. And after joining Akshay Kalpa, they average earning 95,000 rupees. We paid out 128,000 rupees average every month to each farming family. Their land holding is average to acres. So this is, is what okay is I believe transformative. Young people staying in farming and women staying in farming and they earning substantial. The lifestyles have changed. They're able to send their children to best possible schools. Housing has changed. They're able to take care of their parents very well. They're able to live as good a life as a city dweller, okay? If not different. So that is what has changed the farming maritime. So Akshaypur manages 29,000 animals tagged and tracked on a hard management system. Tomorrow I can tell Omerican how. Day after tomorrow I can tell American how. Okay? And we can track every aspect of the animal. First nine years we reach the revenue of, uh, 2019. Financial year we exited with 30 crores. So in agriculture, any entrepreneur needs to remember his value other than agriculture is created at the farm by the farmer. If all the bees dies in this world, actually we die. Okay? If we die, all the bees actually flourish.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Prime Venture Partners podcast. Today we have an exciting guest with us. In today's episode, we have with us Sushi Kumar, who is the founder and CEO of Akshay Kalpa, India's first certified organic dairy enterprise. All of us at prime are huge and loyal customers of Akshay Kalpa. In fact, on our lunch tables, you'll see at least six to eight buttermilk glasses floating in every day. Uh, so with that, we are really excited to have you on your show. Learn everything there is about the space, about Akshay Kalpa and your journey. Uh, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker A: Thank you, Jerome, uh, for the invitation.

Speaker B: Yes, yes. So I, I think I'd like to start off with, um, a very, very basic question. So if for all those who don't know Akshay Kalpa.

Speaker A: Huh?

Speaker B: If you were to explain Akshay Kalpa to a 10 year old, what would you say?

Speaker A: Interesting. Okay. I, ah, never thought like that. Let me attempt. Okay. Um, See, uh, daily we are eating food. Okay? Um, that food is grown by people. Some farmers. Uh, those farmers in India, they are aging fast. Um, for example, you're a boy, 10 year old boy. And you know, the people who are producing food, they are 52 years of age. Uh, if you take average of all the people in the country, it is 30 years. So we are a young nation, but we have aging farmers. What we are trying to do in Akshat Alpa is people like you. 10 old, 10 year old, 15 year old, 20 year old. Can they take interesting farm and understand farming? Little bit. And can you? Overall ultimate idea is to get you into farming. So that's the way I will explain a trickle party. 10 year old.

Speaker B: Okay, very interesting. So now you say the average age of farmers is 52. And the larger goal for Ache Kalpa is to kind of get young people into farming. So if they have to get into farming, can you tell us what does farming in India look like today?

Speaker A: So see, the greatest example of farming is. See, I have a great example of farming. Uh, born in a farming family, the family is still farming. My father is an ardent farmer, but he never wanted me to be a farmer. So any boy or a girl who is born in villages today, what parents say is study, well, get out of farm. Um, my father did that too to me. And the day I was born, only m conversation he used to have is how well you are studying. What is your marks? All his pain now is he hid from us of doing farming, not being successful, not having money and very hard life. Nobody respects, um, so that kind of a life they don't want to see mother children. So what's happening in farming in India today is, uh, all the young population in villages, they are getting educated and they are moving out of farm. Um, so that Is a situation of farming in India. And, uh, people who are producing food, they are aging very fast. An in Nation of 30 years. So that's the situation of farming in India.

Speaker B: Got it? And now that you know, because you've laid this out in that sense, so should young people in. Because you're saying you want young people to be in farming, does it go against education? So what do you kind of recommend or suggest? How should one young person think about it?

Speaker A: See, the way, uh, the farming is imagined in India is flawed. Farming is not imagined as a profession, uh, of choice. For example, if you become a graduate and you want to become an engineer, you want to become a doctor, you want to become a lawyer, or, uh, you want to become any profession you want to choose. But there's no aspiration to become a farmer. So that is the biggest challenge right now. The question is, how do you solve it? And also you need to understand who is the farmer. So there's no farming school in India. Can you believe it? We have got, uh, agricultural university. They teach crops. They don't teach farming. Farming is very different. See, for example, the moment you see a plant, you should have a muscle memory to how to react. The moment you see a soil, you should have a muscle memory to how to react. If you work build a muscle memory, then only farming becomes viable. It is taught from, for example, my farming background is my grandparents taught to my father, my father taught to us. It is passed on, um, from generations to generations to generations. Cropping is not farming. The farming relives lot of things. Farming is culture. Okay? For example, if you go to Changalpattu and ask them to grow banana, they don't know they are paddy. So if you go to Tiptur and ask them to grow paddy, they're coconut. Okay? This culture has been built in then people, okay? Then that ecology. Ecology constitutes a lot of things, including ourselves. Soil, the tree, okay, the animal, the species. Everything determines farm. So in total in India, what happens is we mistake crop knowledge as, ah, farming. Oh, you put this crop. You spray this much. You put this for. No, that is just maybe 1% of farming in your farm. If you go, let me say that 3 acres land farmer clearly knows. In this corner, this grows, this doesn't grow. In this corner, this grows, this doesn't grow. He clearly knows. Okay? For example, in. For example, in our local, uh, language in Canada we call kolaki. Kolaki is when a rain happens in a farm, all the water accumulates in one farm. That's where this kolaki means when the accumulate water accumulation happens, most of the nutrients are actually there because topsoil is gone there. Farmer knows what to grow in that area where water stands, he knows. So the uh, agricultural universities don't teach the beech plots. So this is the status of uh, what is happening. Okay. People getting out of farming is becoming reality. And uh, young people are not getting back to farming. The primary reason of the way Wanda is understood is not from economics point of view. Farming is always understood from a livelihood point of view. It is a way of life, it's a culture. Now the way of life on the culture, um, has been turned into market facing activities. So how do you adapt yourself into that? Articulation is very key. We need to start thinking farming as a vocation, farming as means to be making money. So if you don't solve the problem, young people don't come in. There's no incentive for them to come in. In a modern setup you can argue oh, culture. How can you forget? Of course it's a culture. In the context of a culture, how do you get young people stay in the soil? It's very difficult. And second problem is now, for example, if you are a farmer, you struggle to get married. So how do you take the progeny to the next level? Nobody knows. Therefore young people are uh, not being born in farming families anymore. So who will take this legacy forward? And will machines take over? Will land consolidations happen? Will the corporates take over? So we don't know. So in India it's a totally fragmented system. Two acres, three acre, half an acre, one acre, five acres is very common. Now how do we, how do we manage in between? Okay, this dynamics third and important point is policy. See the data says very obvious data is very clear in farming, 15% of our GDP comes from article 60% of people are dependent on agriculture, government. The way they see it is very different. The policy makers, they just look at the data. So therefore there are a lot of people in farming. Remove them, put it to service sector. Okay? M make them come to cities. What is happening is we are unknowingly removing young people from farming. Who are the people who go to service sector? Not the 40 year old there, not the 50 year old guy, not the 60 year old guy or a girl. People who get into this on young people in their 20s, early ah, 20s, early 30s. Who are these gig workers? By the way, you structurally removed farmers. Most of the gig workers are farmers or migrant labor. They got into gig working because you removed from farming ecosystem by policy and you created this, and people ended up here. So they fought unknowingly by policy removing young people in farming. So that's how this agriculture, uh, is. Now, if you want to set a baseline for where is the agriculture, there's no money. It is not profitable. Young people are getting out of farming, and we don't understand culture, which is a cultural aspect, is getting translated into, we need to now go to market because lot of people want to buy, lot of people don't want to farm. Now, how do we adjust to a dynamic of, uh, what you call, okay, cultural aspects getting turned into market facing realities? It's very, very important.

Speaker B: That was just like a very compelling argument. Right. So what is possibly the protection solution to this? Is Akshay Kalpa part of it? Like, is that what kind of made you start? Akshay Kalpa? So if you can kind of.

Speaker A: Yeah, so this is a crazy thought. Okay. Okay. Uh, way back in 2010, we thought, is it possible to engage young people in farming? That was the thought. Okay, so what is the fundamental problem of engaging young people in farming? We fundamentally believed it's economics. So it's not money, it's economics. They need to make money. Okay. And they should make. Okay, real sense. Um, so last 16 years, what we have done is this very, very simple. Okay. It's not a very complicated matter, but very focused way we have exhibited. Last 16 years, we have worked with 2,800 farmers. That's it. Okay. Not thousands. Okay. Maybe 2,000 be the first thing to say. It is thousands. Okay? So, uh, not 30,000, 40,000 billion. No. What we have done is average age of an a farmer is 32. Okay. Out of that thousand, 200 are women farmers at an hour. Last financial year, at an average, we paid out 128,000 rupees every month to each farming family. Their landholding is average 3 acres. So this is what okay. Is, I believe, transformative young people staying in farming and women staying in farming. And they're earning substantial. Their lifestyles have changed. They're able to send their children to best possible schools. Housing has changed. They're able to take care of their parents very well. They're able to live as good a life as a city dweller, if not different. So that is what has changed. The farming merit. Um, so what we do is go very deep in farming, and we have built India's biggest agricultural extension team. Akshay Kalpa works like a university. So there is no sales target for these people. Every morning, six o' clock you get up, you are on the bike. Moving from farm to farm, farm to farm. Understand these problems. And there is a services team which delivers services. Agronomy as a service, soil management as a service. Veterinary, para veterinary refrigeration, okay? Mechanical services. Anything and everything farmer needs, that is doorstep services are delivered. And we don't even sell one rupee to farms. And we provide banking as a service, we provide market as a service. The whatever he needs, okay? To become an entrepreneurial okay? In his journey in a three acres of land. That's what we did. And these farms have become extremely diversified. We integrated COCA daily, We integrated backyard, uh, poultry, we integrated banana, we integrated beekeeping, we integrated mushrooms, we integrated vegetables, okay? And likewise, we diversified the farms. And so that his risk in the farm actually reduced. So all the modern, what you call market principles you can apply. We have applied risk, we have bought it down, we have diversified so that his risk actually is spread. And we have ensured his income, okay, Is going up, uh, at least inflation adjusted every year, uh, 5 to 7% and the same. See, you need to really understand here the resource constraints. Land is fixed. Land is not infinite. And resources he has not accessed, they are fixed. So within that only way we can make progress is productivity. How productively he can do farm, how we can diversify. This is what Akshat and Pav done for me. This is a learning, okay? And we keep saying that we need to double farmer syndrome. It's possible. And, um, some data. Um, when British government became a shareholder in Akshay Kalpa, Baa is a investor in Akshay Kalpa. In 2022, they met 498 farmers face to face. Six months. They took, okay. They did lot of assessment. Okay? Data is, of course, we were saying the same thing. Of course they paid, uh, some consulting firm, little bit money to do that then a lot of money. Okay? So. And, uh, Data is starting before joining Akshay Kalpa, they are earning every month 10,000 rupees. And after joining Akshay Kalpa, the average earning 95,000 rupees, uh, a cohort which is less than 1.5 years, operating at 60,000 rupees. Okay? 1.5 to 3 years, operates at 95,000. Okay? Above 1.52 and above, it is operating at 125,000 rupees. Amazing data. Okay? But it's a very focused program. Lot of intensive program. 500 people in agriculture extension. Akshay,700 people organization. Out of that, 500 people work in agriculture Extension, like a research program at the university. Program.

Speaker B: I think just economic liberation. You're talking orders is phenomenal.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Another. I had a bunch of questions, but so you. You're working with 2,800 farmers. Roughly. What are the number of farmers in the country? So how does this kind of get built at scale or as there. I mean, should there be another 100 ache kalpas? How do you kind of think of it?

Speaker A: See, the problem is enormous. Okay. Even if you take dairy farmers, 80 million dairy farmers sit in there. Right in the coat. Eight crores. Yes. Okay. Ah, dairy farmers. Okay. Doing dairy. The question is, how do we change this? Can we. Can Akshaypa influence all of it? My answer is no. So the way what we are doing is this 2,800 farmers. They are in 2,800 villages. We don't work more than one farmer in a village. That's it. Uh, now what we have done is that farmer has become a role model for the crew age. Others have copied what is good for them. Rather than me telling prescriptive. They have found lot of good practices this farmer is doing. They copied for example, almost all the villages where we are right now. People make silages for. Okay, they're diary. And lot of people have taken back at Poldi. And um, I can see Already everybody has 20, 30, 40, 50, 100 bananas occurs in their farm. You need not have, uh, a monoculture of banana growing thousands and thousands. 40, 50, 60, 70. They found that itself is adding to income. Okay. Daily you can harvest on bunch and sell it for thousand rupees. It's possible. So what's worse problem is there is no problem. M. Okay, so these practices now we see a lot of people are now doing trenching, bunding and edging and soil management. Lot of people are making manure. Manure making was forgotten, okay. In the. In the myriad of subsidies and manure making as forgotten art in India. And it is science. Manure making is science. You need to get the science back to farm. They have seen this farmer in a village. They copied it. What is good for them, they copied. So the way we are working to your question is, can Akshay Karpa solve all of it? Know we our job, I believe is setting up role models. Why I say this role modeling is critical is you ask me because why I became an engineer? I became an engineer because my father saw a very good engineer in Bangalore making money. For him, that money making engineer in Bangalore was a role model. You like it or not? Then when I Was born. Only thing he kept with, he become like an engineer. That's it. Therefore, farming, okay? What it needs is, it needs a positive swing. And every village needs a role model. Positive talking about farming. You tell me one example of positive talking about farming. Only thing we talk about farming is negative. And um, that is ingrained in people thinking in villages. So in Karnata there's a semi farming means nan saa neen saa manevar Allah means everybody dies. If you do farming, I will die, you will die, my family will die, my entire village will die. That is the kind of negativity which is there in farming today. It has to change. So therefore we can't transform 80 million dairy farmers. It's not possible. It's not my mind. My mandate is get the positive stories out there, okay? And every village should look up to that guy.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Saying that, hey, he's making money looking after his children very well. Okay. His family is very well off. Okay. He has money in his bank account, he's moving in a car. Okay. And he's taking care of all his requirements. Why not? So that's the kind of, okay, uh, solution what we are looking at, that's the problem purpose in which Akshay Kibo was set up.

Speaker B: Lot differ. Got it. I mean, uh, so there are 2,800 villages. Would love to know how did these villages get paid? How do you kind of pick farmers, Right? Because I Remember started about 7 lakh villages in India. So ideally we needed one per each of the 7 lakhs, right? But would love to know how have you picked the 2800 and uh, what is it?

Speaker A: In the process, like, so initially when we all started 2010, we were also aimless. Okay. Or we thought, okay, 27 people for Wipro. Okay. What they will be thinking. We can imagine all crazy thoughts, okay? Without technology will transform agriculture. Uh, okay, my foot. Nothing won't happen like that, okay? Agriculture, uh, actually gets solved at a ground level. Okay? Ground level action. We realize then when we started making a lot of farmers, okay. One cohort, okay. Which came to our mind was a lot of cab drivers in Bangalore, okay? They have 2 acres, 3 acres, 5 acres of land. And their aging parents are looking after the land. He is in Bangalore driving a cab. Likewise, we caught hold of these cab drivers and these cab drivers are scattered and okay. Then we thought, okay, why not go after these cab drivers and uh, work with them? That's how this entire work started in farming with cat draggers. Since they were scattered, they were in each Village. And uh, we happen to work, get to know these villages. But over a period of time we realize I can't solve village problems. Mhm. So when you get into a village level village mass programs, there are a lot of dynamics involved, there are politics involved, there is a jealousy involved, there is interpersonal issues. We thought we don't want to get into solving those. But what we need to solve is pick the most entrepreneurial farmer in that village and start working. Move from village to village, village to village. This exactly how the journey started. In the process, what we also realized there are a lot of cultural nuances. For example, we have a TikTok cluster in Karnataka, uh, has a different cultural nuance than Chandupattu cluster in Tamil Nadu and Rangarani Mehbu Megar cluster in Telangana. So therefore we started moving our work to various agroclimatic regions. So entire India is divided into 15 regions. And we are in now three regions. One is in Tiptur, another is in Chennai. Third one is Rangaradi M. Mavgunnagar. So now we are trying to grow by agro, climatic region by region, trying to prove the model. So there are two important aspects. Setting, role modeling. We might not be able to touch on 7 lakh messages. Okay. And it will spread. Okay. Positivity when it is spread. But we need to do the model in different climatic conditions, agroclimatic conditions. So therefore we are moving from one climatic condition to other climatic conditions. Uh, slowly. Okay. Last 16 years we have moved into three agroclimatic conditions and also nearby markets. Okay. Where market access was required.

Speaker B: Got it. So roughly around uh, all the 2800 are in these three geographic.

Speaker A: Three clusters.

Speaker B: Three clusters. What are these 15? I was just curious because. Oh, I would love for like even the audience to know.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's amazing. Okay. Uh, maybe what has been the disaster within agriculture? I'll tell you. We believe what worked in Punjab will work in Tamil Nadu. It is not true. Okay. That's where the problem that NPK culture. Okay. I learned npk. Okay. Nitrogen, phosphorus and potash. I will add this and I'll uh, solve this problem. That thought process is the bane of the problem. So what is the 15 hydroclimatic conditions? For example, tiptoe is a lead soil. 7 millimeters of rain and there is no canal irrigation. Okay. Predominantly coconut. Okay. It's red sandy Lumi soils. 700 millimeters of grime. What can I do? Mhm. Using that as a climate condition. Culture has evolved slowly over a period of 200 300, 500,000 years culture has evolved. People only know that for example tiptoe area without coconut they don't know what to do. Okay. So coconut became a predominant crop, cash crop. So they grow millets, ragi, ragi staple. It becomes tame little bit vegetable to eat for themselves. Okay. Likewise they evolve their culture. So this is one agroclimatic condition. Next one is for example if you take General Katu Madhurant. Okay. 1400 millimeters of rain cats and dogs. Okay. It's October, November, December, January. It trains force after. Once it pours they know even water to drink. Can you believe it Our management systems. So in that kind of way we. We need to learn to manage ourselves. And um. Culturally they learn to grow paddy. Okay. Atandam paddy. They don't know anything. So that is little bit of a clay soil. Water doesn't percolate the sarisa. Um. Even small amount of rain it looks like a flood. Entire water flows off. Okay. There no seepage of water possible because the lands are clay. And we have been growing parry for ages. All the salts have come up. Water perculation. Stop it Sealed water percation. So drinking water now for example now there a peak of summer death. Okay. June you don't get Ingaru. So Mungar you don't get. Okay. Um. In Garu. Okay. Starting September you'll get rain there. Okay. And uh. Till then it's almost barren and there's no water. So we need to learn how to manage that atom. Come to Radhari Madhu Mega. Okay. Deciduous environment. Okay. Uh, this is a mixture of clay soil. Okay. Black autumn soil and red Santa Lumi soil. And extreme heat. Okay. In summers. Okay. Heat can go up to 45 to 50. Okay. All the heats coming from north flames. Okay. Eating that. How do you manage agronomy there? So likewise if you go to. Let me say Dharjani, very different adronomy. If you go to Himachal Pradesh, different adronomy go to Punjab. There there are two extreme severe. One is severe winter.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Another is US summer. So how do you manage? So likewise there are 15m classifications in India.

Speaker B: Got it.

Speaker A: Okay. And those 15 classifications needs to be understood in a standalone manner. What we have done is we are trying to um. Apply first principles called NPK principles. Saying that this will solve everything. No, actually it won't solve locally. You need to adapt a lot of things. We fundamentally believe putting. Okay. NPK will fall. All the issues seen as a silver bullet. There's no silver bullet. Silver bullet is you going there and understanding those local problems, providing solutions locally relevant. Okay, so what does it mean? Okay, for example, if I go to Chandalpetto and try to grow, okay, let me say millets there, it won't work. So just become. Just because I grew millets in tip two, I can't grow millets there. I need to customize that. What is that crop? Staple crop. Okay. For local people. Okay. We need to really understand, okay, that soil. What to do with that soil. And totally depleted. Okay. One data is damning. It's government data. I'm not making up this data. Government says soil organic carbon in arable lands, lands where cultivation happens, okay, is 0.4%. In India 1970 it was 0.73773%. You know, classification of desert is if a soil organic farm is 0.5% to declare land as a desert, technically what dormitude selling is all the arable lines in India, they are deserts. Until you pour. Until you pour lot of things from outside to inside farming is not viable. M. So we have got into that stage, you know. So what this makes is customization, okay? See, not that government didn't realize, okay? They're putting KVKs, every technical aspect, Krishnana Kendras, they are the root cause of the problem. They didn't customize, they just tried to copy FK culture and they didn't do outreach, okay? And they are busy in subsidy programs, okay? And absolutely lack of understanding of culture. When farming comes, culture comes first. Then you go on into it. So then nothing happened. You go to a Punjab culture. It's very different culture than Tamil Nadu, you know, so how do we marry that entire spectrum? You go to Gujarat, culture is very different. Go to Northeast, it's extremely different. Hilly culture, okay? Very, uh, different culture. You know, if you don't understand culture, you don't understand etiquette.

Speaker B: So the challenge. So Sri, you bring about culture as a key piece. I would love to know how have you used culture in Akshay Kalpar in the last 16 years.

Speaker A: So this is also for us, it's a learning, okay? Not that we knew day one it didn't happen like we knew it day one. Uh, slowly we learned that for example, it was extremely difficult to teach growing maize to people in Tutua. Maize is a amazing crop for um, D M. So we need to make silages, we need maize. So we learned why they're not able to grow because they don't know they're not being growing. So then we need to get the agronomy into them first. Agronomy is agriculture, uh, and economics. So what is the economics of growing? Okay, Maze, so you need to go and marry this onto a culture, okay? So for me, without understanding that, and if I push bulldoze, hey, do will not work, they will rebel. So that's the fundamental aspect of a culture. You can't push things through. We need to take them into confidence, okay? Before actually anything changes. Second aspect, I tell you, cultural limits. Cows are always tied and tethered. They are tied and tethered, okay? With the noose oak and this one, um, they are tied and tethered. The moment you ask them to remove that, they will rebel, say no. We don't know how to manage without tying and tethering. So that's one cultural nuance. Any diary person knows, any serious dairy person, cows should not be tied. So that's a cultural element, you know. So then we need to go slowly and do one or two demonstrations, get them there and see the thing is happening, everything is perfectly fine. Only thing is it has reduced the labor, it reduces stressed on the animal. Milk here has gone up. So we started relating these cultural changes to economics. So therefore, slowly these changes started happening. Started growing maize, we started making, uh, silages, okay? We started raising amazing calves. We stopped dying and tethering animals and um, which we told, you know, hand milking is bad, okay? And um, this, it's, it's also can harm animals, okay? And also the milk, uh, can be extremely bad. They don't believe because traditionally they have been hang milking, okay? Now when we bought mechanization, 100% farms are mechanized now, or shikapa, it has reduced drudgery of milking. You know, milking five cows can be extremely difficult. You should see my mother's hand, okay? Our hands also, you can see so extremely calf. You can say see here. So this is milking hand, okay? So we have been milking from kids, okay? And um, the hands actually become very rough, okay? Very difficult. And my mother is extremely rough. She can't even feel here, you know. So that's the kind of pain they undergo. They don't understand. They do it because without that they are dying. Okay? So these are the cultural aspects into how do we change this culture and bring economic sense into what they're doing. It becomes very, very, very important. And I can't, uh, stress, uh, this anymore, okay? It's huge impact. Wow.

Speaker B: Uh, I had several questions, but I'm going to start with one. Uh, why did you start, do you start with dairy? And why dairy and what Is that good question?

Speaker A: So we wanted to do farming intervention. We didn't want to do diary intervention. Okay. Then we went and started asking what is the biggest problem today? Farmer is facing cash flows. So then he thought let us do dairy in an organized manner, okay. And so that he makes lot of money and then he will allow us to intervene in various aspects. For example, actually we started day one, we can go into farmers saying that let's do soil management. Let us do trenching and bending. So we very sometimes he told Tata bhai bhai, thank you in front of you, they will sell. Uh, they will tell. Okay. Coffee. Ayita sat. Then after you left, the bastard, he doesn't know. Okay. What is he talking? He wants to do soil management. I am struggling with my daughter's, uh, wedding or your daughter just come home, I need to buy Aari. So you know, those are real problems. You know, you can't really say they're not. They're gone. Okay. So we, we, we understood that we need to solve the cash problem first. So then what we did was we got into Diary with lot of science and that to Diary with a minimal investment. Okay. Where is he making money? Animal. So got into animal sciences, okay. And got into H management. Got the best of the technology possible. Today I can say so Akshatra manages 29, 29,000 animals tagged and tracked on a hard management system. Tomorrow I can tell how many can cow. Day after tomorrow I can tell how many can cow. Okay. And we can track every aspect of the animal. Now, uh, we got into the God science to farming. They started seeing, okay, a lot of upswing in their fortunes. Okay. For people who are earning 2,000, 3,000 in daily, they started earning 50,000, 60,000, 80,000, 100,000 they started earning. That's the change. Then once we do that then got the positive spin. Then we told we want to do trenching. Now they agree we want. We told initial D where we told we wanted to do beekeeping for pollination. They told, what the heck, who cares? Pollination. Then we got beekeeping. Once this economics is solved, we got into beekeeping. We told, hey, you know, honey. Okay. Then also in the process, we started teaching them how to make manure at a scale. Each of the akshatopa farmer makes 200 to 300 tons of manure every year in a beautiful manner. Okay? And um, that's hunts. Okay. We have got into a state of like NPK. You can say 17, 17, 17. 15% remaining. Everything is filler. We are able to tell that that precision like our chemical company can tell and sell their way. Farmer can make their manure. But in the process we realize, for example it is lacking phosphorus, is lacking nitrogen. Then we needed access to chicken poop. For that one we introduced, we needed 5 to 10 kgs of chicken poop every month, okay? For manure making. Then we introduced backup poultry. So the backup poultry itself has become a business now. Okay. For the farmer. So likewise, okay, these interventions started with dairy because it's all the cash. Then we started solving all the fairy value problems using that cash. Till you solve that cash problem, you will not listen to it. There's no reason why you should listen to it because it's a livelihood question. You know, if something mistake happens, even he's okay using chemicals and brewing. What's wrong? Because end of the day he has to survive. So how do you change that mentality? That's the reason that dairy became central dairy gave two beautiful outputs. One is market facing mill. Second thing is the soil facing dung. Dung in itself not a great manure. Um, we need to do a lot of value addition to dung and create manure. So that's very, very important. A lot of people don't know, they just pile up the gun. They think it's a manure. It is not dam with agricultural waste, tree trimmings, pulverized waste in a one is to five ratio by volume one, one category of dam and five categories of uh, polarized agricultural waste. You need to put it in a heap. It is called indoor method. Okay. And in that indoor method you can make amazing amount of manure anywhere between 45 days to 90 days. Beautiful manure you can do you know where is that inder method is documented? None of the books in India is a book written in 1930 and a book called an agricultural testament. Albert Hoard, he has gone and documented entire agricultural practices in India.

Speaker B: Wow. What of the world is this?

Speaker A: He's a foreigner, okay. And came to India and traveled throughout India in 30s and documented our agricultural practices. I 100% believe nobody has read that book. Amazing book. It's freely available and agricultural testament. You can just download and read it. And in that one, indoor method is documented. Indoor method of manure mating is documented. And he has gone there, okay. And he has written sketches. How they do it, how they do it. Beautiful manure he can make. So likewise, what I'm trying to say is dairy. We started and started with various interventions using dairy. That's a primary reason cashew got it. And then getting into positive diversification Using dairy.

Speaker B: Got it. And how did the products come by today? Because we all use Akshay Kalpa products, right today. If you can tell us how many products does Akshay Kalpa have? How does the origin of products look like?

Speaker A: See, all the products, okay. Whatever we are farming, they become products. Okay? We farm milk. So it is upfront, okay. We do a little bit of vegetables. It become a product. We do a little bit of a honey, it become a product. We do a little bit of a backyard poultry, it become a egg. Okay. We do a little bit of a mushroom. It became a. Okay, a, uh, mushroom. We do a little bit of a banana. That became a. This one. Likewise, we started putting the products together. So therefore, Akshay Kalpa, if you farm, it is available with nothing is grow. Keeping market demand. Can you believe it? It is always kept in mind of ecology. In mind in this ecology, what you can grow. And only that one we commercialized. Uh, we didn't go. That one was saying, oh, a lot of demand for milk, for example. Indeed, there are a lot of milk. We are running short of milk. I mean, it's fine. That's what our capacity is. That's it. You resent that fact that you can only do that much. And if you push against the what is possible ecological limit of a, of a land or a farmer, then you start seeing problems.

Speaker B: Got it. And what is the scale today in terms of the number of products? If you're comfortable sharing.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So, Akshanal PA Initial stages. We struggle. So first nine years of our journey, uh, we didn't know the market, okay. And um, a lot of people thought we are fools, okay. We kept on doing farming, farming, farming. We wanted to meet the farmer unit economics work. That was the first nine years of journeying. There's not much focus on the market. Okay? So though by limping, a lot of issues in the process. For example, first nine years, six times close to bankruptcy. And uh, we kept on farming, farming, farming. A lot of focus on farming. Maybe that is helping us now. Okay. Uh, product remain very simple. Okay. Milk, um, the main product. Other than that, we couldn't do anything. Okay, first nine years. And, uh, first nine years. Okay. Um, slowly we diversified, okay. In terms of, uh, we added little bit of a ghee. Okay. We added little bit of a curd. Likewise, simple products, not very complicated. And we have taken a line that we will not make any product sugar added. We are not make any product, okay. Which is, uh, uh, preservative added or any E numbers added. So Akshatrapa has remained so simple in terms of uh, the market outlay. First nine years, we reached the revenue of uh, 2019. Financial year we exited with 30 crores. Okay. Uh, revenue. But it took nine years, okay. To reach there at. Okay. That time somebody took a B. Okay. That is because low capital. But I don't know why they invested. Okay. Business model was not proven. We were still struggling. There's no chance that we would have scaled anything. So they took a better. Okay. Till 2019, only capital we raised was 1.4 crores. That's it. We were debt free. Can you believe it? That's the frugality at which we ran the business. And uh, we had no debts. We were profitable. And till 2019. And uh, that's the only way we could have survived. And we kept our. Somewhere in 2015, 16 I gave up on money rise. Okay. Nobody understood us, okay. They think we are. We are doing something which is not required. We had no market focus. I also didn't know to tell, okay, I don't know how to market because the product itself is not ready. What will you market? Okay. And uh, we are still struggling. But somewhere 2019 they took a bit. I uh, think that changed the way the company operates. Okay. We were able to make lot more farmers inclusive. We were able to push the economics of a faru a little bit higher because we were able to diversify and give market access. And um, again, of course, um, uh, 2022, uh, British government invested, methane commerce, Zarada invested. Um, and for J91 partner invested. And Singapore government yearly C impact, they invested. So all of it happened. Okay. Akshaypa has reached that 60 crores of monthly revenues now.

Speaker B: Uh, okay.

Speaker A: And we are a profitable company.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Okay. And uh, that is something only. We are in three markets. Bangalore, Chandan and Hyderabad. Of course, recently we went to Pune and Mumbai. So that is a scale at which we operate. And nobody gave us a chance even. At least I even gave a chance to myself. I thought, okay, we are dead. 2016, keep running. Don't get into decks. Don't get into trouble. Don't get into any other things. We keep selling 2,000, 3,000 liters of milk. What we are selling. And that's our life. That's it. Um, okay. We got into. Okay, that mode of operations.

Speaker B: Wonderful. That's really touching to hear the story. So today, in terms of the tons of liters of milk you sell today, nene volume of that or the number of packets, et cetera. Across these three.

Speaker A: Yes. So Akshay, 2,800 farmers today produce 2.2 lakh liters of milk already. Okay. And just to give an example, if you're supposed to do conventional dairy, you need 100,000 farmers. That itself is indication of efficiency at which the farms operate. Okay. And uh, of course this is around 70% appreciate as a liquid mill and 30% goes into okay. Product making. So that's how. Okay. Right now Akshaypa is uh, uh, slowly 15% of our revenues is non dairy. Now, little bit of, a little bit of vegetables. Okay. Uh, a little bit of mushrooms. That's exactly how it has panned out.

Speaker B: Got it. And how does say for example, because you said all your farmers are abross 2018 farmers across villages. How does the supply chain work and is servicing different parts of southern India

Speaker A: the way what we work is operate extremely efficiently.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: We work in clusters. We don't work throughout India. Okay. One cluster is in Tiptur. Okay. If you get Tiptur to the center, 50 kilometer radius. We work Nata or Bangkok, go to Changapattu. Okay. Keep Changapit as a center. Madranda center. We work in 10km radius. We go to Rangaradi, Maiunagar district, Jad Chala around Jadchalla. We work around 15 kilometer radius. So therefore we are able to deliver world class services to farmers at any point of time on the pipe. We are there in the forwards. So that's how the entire supply chain has been built. Extremely focused clusters. It takes time to put clusters together. Uh, each cluster, okay. Takes around seven years to put together. Okay. For example, uh, Chandrapattu cluster, they started working in 2019. So we were able to do procurement in 2025. So it takes huge gestation to put the clusters together. Right.

Speaker B: And then do you foresee going to different parts of the country or you kind of want to make it more concentrated in the current clusters?

Speaker A: Because where we are thinking right now is we need to. Okay. Uh, expand to uh, let me say Maharashtra and prove this model in Maharashtra, which started working in 2023. Okay. And agriculture extension. Maharashtra. Okay. In and around Shur, in and around, etc.

Speaker B: All of it.

Speaker A: Okay. And the Mumbai Pune market also recently we entered. So therefore we open a cluster and link the Pontia market. So that's exactly. To start your own procurement in uh, uh, Mumbai. Okay. Maharashtra, it will be 20, 30, 31. So six to seven years is required. So there is a gestation of going into farming and making it work. That's the Time it takes.

Speaker B: Got it. And also as a follow up, right, so you've gone into markets already. How do customers find you and how does customer retention happen? Free, right? Ah, because at least Ad prime and people, I've heard, I spoke to a couple of customers before this podcast. Everybody's a very loyal customer. So how do you find your customers and how do they retain? So just a little on that.

Speaker A: So there's a very interesting journey, you know, um, see, first liter of milk we sold in, uh, February 11th in 20, uh, 12. 2012, February 11th to Sul park in Jayanagar. Okay. Me and my co founder, Dr. Janice released two and sold it to jobbers. 18 liters of milk we sold. Okay. That's the starting journey of this. In the process we started explaining what is organic milk. People started asking questions. We explained. A lot of people had a lot of questions. Then what we told was, hey, you know, okay, why don't you just come down and meet some of our farmers? That's exactly what, uh, uh, um, the customer love journey started there. You know, just to give an example, the scale at which this has happening. Financial year 2526 45,000 unique customers have visited our farmers. Can you believe it?

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Okay, so that is our biggest discovery moves of. Okay, but of course, um, various channels. Either product is available or direct channel is there. So at any point of time, 140,000 already customers in a month. Okay. Uh, so that is a very big channel. 40% of our revenues come there from your direct channel. Direct channel. Wow. Okay. And we are successfully competing in sq comma.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So our direct channel is growing. So therefore, okay, all the assumptions that everybody wants 10 minutes delivery. I don't believe if you need a good food, you need to make an attempt. Okay. Not everything can be delivered in 10 minutes. So I think customers understand that. Okay. And 40% of revenues, okay. Come from CUPA BCom and around 20% comes from retail. So that's how. Okay.

Speaker B: The security is very, very, very interesting. Um, and like also actually my colleague had this question. Your price is relatively higher with respect to the other products in the market. So how are you competing on that? What is your thought on the premium price?

Speaker A: See, the one philosophy is, um, any good produce costs, uh, money and we are bought used to substandard products and we need to really elevate the quality of our products. They will be expensive. Our food is extremely cheap in India. Okay. For various reasons. Okay. And um, how many bother about. Okay, um, how many are bothered about antibiotics in there? Which milk is Delivered, it's a white liquid. And you need to really make an attempt to understand. So I believe gone are the days where you have money you can buy through, okay? And people are conscious, and, uh, if they see a value, they're willing to pay. So therefore, um, so the way I. The way I look at pricing is it's not a market play, it's a value play, okay? And if you can deliver that value to your customer, I think customer is willing to Pay, for example, 50% of our customers, okay? They buy conventional milk for them. They buy a chip of milk for the child. Can you believe it? Okay. That's the cohort. So therefore, they need to see a value, okay? They are extremely finicky about what child is eating. And that's the path they want to become future ambassadors for good food. So that's exactly how this will actually pan out, in my opinion, in the country. So, therefore, pricing is a m. Mood point. Um, there will be, okay. Accessibility issues due to pricing. I'm not discounting that about. But if you. If you put a value proposition with pricing, you will not be able to deliver good food, I guarantee you. Okay? For example, you can go and tell, I test my milk. What do you mean by you test your milk? And you don't know what happened in the farm. You don't know what cow we ate. You don't know how cow was looked after. It's where the milk is coming from. Uh, you don't know how the veterinary care was given to that cow, how much stress that cow is under. What you test and give me a drink. Okay? So everybody has to test, okay? Without testing, you can't go to market. First you need to go step back and really go to the farming. You need to fix farming systems. Right now, there's no system. So therefore, we are very confident we are in the journey of fixing farming systems. I think the paying customer will see a value for himself, if not for anybody else, for their family. Uh, in. In. In the product, uh, value proposition.

Speaker B: No, that's. That's. That's wonderful. And what do you think is the biggest myth around organic products? How do you define organic? Because Akshay Kalpa is known for that. And how do you kind of differentiate between organic and possibly the methadone?

Speaker A: M. Yeah, so before that, okay, I had one, um, what we call dichotomy of market. Okay. What they do. A food which is fully laden with chemicals, you need not label it. It is as a chemical food, but a food, okay, which is, for example, most Safest to eat. You're supposed to write as organism. And you need to prove that. Okay. That it is. Okay. Contains no traces of chemicals. Okay. That's the dichotomy at which we operate, you know, with a cheap chemical sprayed and dumped on it. And you are allowing people to eat food. And organic as a means is a process. Lot of people don't understand organic produce. Okay. Organic will not look good. Uh, okay. And you take vegetables, okay. It looked extremely bad. Okay. And. But the process is extremely safe. There's no chemicals used, there's no chemical fertilizers used. Okay. Soil is taken for here and food is nutritious. And since lot of pest control, for example, all the vegetables we grow, 30% actually just goes paste because we don't know how to control it. So this mangoes is a lot of mangoes are growing waste because spongy tissue issue. We don't know how to handle spongy tissues. Okay. And similarly, okay with neck. Okay. Um, the way I define organic is can you be very cognizant of a fact that what we need to eat needs to be extremely nutritious and safe to make extremely nutritious and safe what you need to do in the back end. So for me, that is organic. Okay? The process in which you take care of soil to produce good foods. The process you need to take care of an animal to produce good food. The process you need to take care of your poultry to produce good eggs. The process you need to really till your land. For example, land tilling and land plowing has lot of difference. The moment you clothe a land one feet deep, all the fungi networks get disturbed. Fungi cannot survive sunlight because they can't photosynthesis. They establish a relationship with the plant in such a way that they exchange sugars and they give nutrients to farmer. The plant and plant gives them the nutrients. Sugars and fungi, uh, gives the nutrients. That's exactly how the relationship works. The moment you clow one feet and just turn the soil like this entire fungi is decked. So we are conscious of plowing versus killing. We are conscious of seeds, we are conscious of how the animals are taken care. So with all these combinations, can you produce the fruit? In my opinion, possible. We used to just do this 100 years back. What happened? What happened in the process? Just leave no. So in my opinion, that's how I define organic as consumers need to understand that one from a process point of view. And what is good for them. What is good for them is not what good looks good, what Is good for them is what is nutrition. Organic food also can look good, okay. If it is taken care properly. But you need to really bother about what is good for you and be aware of the consistent model.

Speaker B: Got it. And then how have you seen change in consumers and customers in India or in the markets to operate? But how their awareness for healthy food, organic products, how has that changed? Is that like on the positive or what is your sense?

Speaker A: It's extremely organic. Market in India is extremely difficult. A lot of people don't understand. Okay. Organic levels are extremely low. Okay. Okay. And you know where is ah, the most organic business in India? It is exports. Okay. And we as Indians use our land and produce some of the amazing food we export because others want it.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Okay. And we need to, our consumers need to make an attempt to support our farmers. There's no point in exporting it. You know, our nation needs good food. Okay. As simple as that. Awareness is extremely poor and uh, lot of articulations. Okay. On uh, okay. Organic. How should I know it's organic? Just go to your farmer and visit him. Now how many times you have made an attempt to go to your farmer and visit, you have got 52 weeks. Okay. In a year, one week you take off. So my opinion at least from a consumer point of view is this awareness is extremely challenging. Okay. And uh, all the businesses are built, okay. Keeping export orientation in mind. Um, that's not good for the nation. And I'm using my soil, my resources, my this one to produce good food for somebody else. Okay. Let's feed our population, feed our yin population and uh, with good food, okay. So that it can change the positive spin on the health side.

Speaker B: Got it. I think that's, that's very critical. Uh, so you did mention about investors, right? When you went about investing. Uh, you're not the usual tech LED founder. Also you're a techie who became uh, agro based founder. What was the initial

Speaker C: feedback?

Speaker B: Uh, if how did you go about fundraising at this point? You seen capitalized. Well capitalized. But what has the journey been like with respect to fundraising?

Speaker A: So in Indian ecosystem now see the farming is three interesting blocks. One is called as agri tech, then is actual farmer, um, then post harvest. So in India there are a lot of investors investing in agri tech. So what is agritech? It could be seed, it could be manure, it could be spray, it could be drone, it could be AI or it could be anything. Okay. Do with agri tech tractor. Uh, okay. Or improved variety of seeds or anything. Can be agriculture, okay? And post amnesties, when the farmer produces something, you buy and create markets, okay? There's a lot of investments happening on this side and this side. Zero investment in what is called as farming, Akshaypa. In that sense it is lucky that we were able to capitalize. RS is a decked up story, okay? So understanding of that middle pace in India is extremely poor. So I will give a simple example. A cattle company who sells a tractor to farmer. Very tension. Farmer makes money? No. A seal company who sells a seed to farmer. Will they ensure farmer makes money? No. A venue company who sells menu to farmer. Will they make farmer makes money? Absolutely no. So therefore that's the most riskiest piece. Nobody wants. But everybody taking money up, okay? You know the accurate tax of the money. The moment you sell a tractor, you're taking money out. You're sucking money out. The moment you sold a seed, you're taking money out. The moment you're selling all the shit which farmer doesn't need actually, you're taking money out. And what is the post office doing? You are negotiating him at a gunpoint and um, buying at the cheapest price possible. You negotiate him and squeeze him out. And you create your damn markets in the middle piece, the most risked piece while you take out money in this one. There's no support system exists in India, okay? Investor understanding of that piece is extremely pathetic. Believe me. They just don't get it, okay? And there's no investments have happened just to prove their thesis, okay? I'm extremely critical of investors because those are the people who are bloody don't lend, who came to the middle piece. So the question is, what is happening in this space? And um, nobody is willing to take a risk. You know, they think it is agri. It is not. After post harvest, you create a bow down. Um, you store it and you, you lend to a company with actually storing that and that lend. That company lends it to farmers who have stored their produce. Can you believe it? Those are the models we think is agriculture. It is not. Please lend and make money. Also please lend into, okay, this middle piece which is the most. So at least my 16 years journey had given up. I'm saying enough of you asked me this question, okay? First nine years I could, I couldn't mobilize even a single rupee of okay, institutional money, okay? They invested in us, okay? Investment happened because there is a market traction. Not because we are doing good farming. Can you believe it? So therefore companies like us can only survive if there is a Market and let us remove the market, okay? Let us assume I'm able to make reduce risk in this one and I able to work with farmers and make this work, okay? Then also investments won't happen because it is huge gestation. 30 years, maybe 50 years, maybe 100 years. I don't know because nobody knows. There's no thesis proven. Okay? So that is the status of lending in farming and agriculture in India. Even commercial banks, even 18% man made by government is fooled by 18 to 36% lending, okay? And that KCC, they do all stupidity work. You say it's a credit card for Kisans, okay? For farmers, okay? Farmers don't understand this damn credit card, okay? They need to take that money and put that one back. They don't understand once they take KCC money they never return. Okay? Then 7% becomes 12%, 12% becomes 14% and they've exploited. We never explained the product to him properly. And KCC we told is a good medium, okay? Give a credit card to a farmer by default. It's a very good intervention. But he never understood the instrument. Most of the cases are defaults. Can you believe it? It is the lowest interest possible but that cases have become defaults and most of the. For example shg, jlg lending. See the dipotomy. If let me say. Okay, she is um. Listening. You are listening. Okay, Let us assume you are a member of a self help group, okay? Women's self help group. You actually borrow from 2000 groups. It is true, no, it's like you borrowing from two banks and one doesn't know the he has borrowed from others and what happens to the financial discipline. So there are various things that have happened like this and uh. Uh. Microfinance screwed up, okay? The middle piece lending because they became greedy and probably it's a good this ah. 1. So this is what my view on investors, okay? Nothing against anybody but okay. I just thought I should just tell you. You asked me, I told you so

Speaker B: I think I struck the life card in some sense.

Speaker A: No, no, I didn't mean to.

Speaker B: No, no. But it was a very effort to understand it because you've spent 16 years in this. So the middle piece. I have a question. I have two questions rather Saeetla Bim A if a young person or a founder wants to start in this space because you spent 16 years where should they look at? Because the opportunity is large, right? From a market side as well. Uh, where should they look at and what are some tips you have? And two also for investors because Possibly there is a lack of awareness, right. Just to understand the market. Uh, because investors typically come in when the market is big and if it can possibly help them return money from their energies. So one for founders, young people and because uh, how can young people think about building businesses in this middle piece and for investors, what is the missing piece like? What is the lack of awareness that can possibly bridge by your experience?

Speaker A: So I can give examples uh, from based on our experience. Okay. In the middle piece, right. What we have found is agricultural productivity is obviously very low in India. M. Okay. Abyss. Okay. Even if you take rice yields. Okay. Even if you take gahoon yields. Okay. You can take uh, any agricultural produce. Okay. And uh, um, uh, percentage levels are extremely high. Okay. Farmers are extremely uncomfortable. Now I believe this is the greatest piece possible anywhere. Okay. In the uh, in, in. In let me say entrepreneurial space. Okay. What it needs is little bit understanding of a culture and agriculture. So lot of attempts are being made to corporatize foreign. Uh-huh. You will not see value there because uh, you need to have a constant labor. So you need to invest a lot upfront on m protected cultivation. So there are a lot of people ending in that direction. I'm not saying they're wrong, but that's not the space. The space is the cultivation which is happening in farming. Okay. Right now is the space lower productivity actually can uh, attacking that problem can actually transform m agriculture and you will see a substantial value. Okay. In terms of. Okay. What's happening in uh, uh, output coming from that under budget, for example. So the way we operate, we don't procure milk throughout. Okay. India focused clusters. Okay. And within that focused clusters. So just to give an example, 2,800 farmers enabling 700 crores of business. M. If you want to do in conventionally, you need 100,000 to 150,000 farmers to do it. So this is the efficiencies which are possible is an extremely efficient systems. We need to discover the choose an area and uh, we need to work in clusters. So more often than not, all the post harvest interventions, okay. Are uh, worked um, on commodities being traded. I'll buy that commodity. Oh, in that area, this area, you're an aggregator. I'll commoditize it and I'll buy that. Okay. And I will create markets. No, it has no value. Believe me, it has absolutely no value and you can't create value like that. So, so in agriculture, any entrepreneur needs to remember his value as an agriculture is created at the farm by the farmer realization can only happen if there's a paying customer in the market. So this needs to be understood. So therefore, yes, creating value. How do you. Yes. Lock in the value. And you need to lock that value. We can pick up any commodity. It is true. You know, any commodity. Okay. Coconut. Such an amazing, um, things are possible here. Nothing is. Tip two is a great example. Biggest copra belt in India. The biggest copra belt in Asia. Not in India. Okay. And zero coconut industries. Okay. Value addition in tip two. Okay. And uh, for example, if you take, okay, carbon shell. Okay. Uh, uh, when a coconut, when you remove this called chipook, okay. It's little bit hard. You can make amazing desiccated carbon zero units in dipto. Mhm. Okay. And why that's the space I see you can lock that value there and um, you can create markets. So that's how I really look at that, that really that space. Okay. Give some more concrete examples. Okay. In this space, for example, take vegetables as in an organized manner. No vegetable production has happened in the country. Okay. Maybe to certain extent people like Bhumi farms. They have done, okay, Shankar has done an amazing job and he has reached, okay, Able to work with farmers, create that value for farmers. Okay. You know, when market prices were five rupees per kilogram of tomato, he was paying 25 rupees, okay. To that farmer. And I believe this is a real value creation. I'm just giving some examples where people have done it. Okay. And uh, vegetables is one area, coconut is other area. And coconut value addition, huge value into desiccated carbon. We can spend into a lot of this one. For example, the coir pit in coconut is a huge value. People don't see that. For example, you can use it as a soil amendment. And water holding capacity, porosity of the soil goes up because there's a carbon which is going in. Carbon has a huge uh, area which can hold the water. So therefore it can increase the porosity of a soil. It can actually transform soils. And a lot of exports are happening to us. Okay. Once I was in Texas way back in 2009, M10, meeting some customers, some friends in his lawn, I saw, okay, A kayak with block exported from crypto. Okay? So these are all amazing value lock ins possible and of course markets, okay. We need to work and create those markets, um, so we can go a little bit deeper. Okay. In the space of uh, let me say Parry itself. Okay, okay. Paddy extremely low. Okay. Productivity systems in India right now, I'm not talking about yield, I'm talking about productivity, okay? For example, adoption of SRI has failed. System for rise in densification has failed in India because of labor issues. It requires a lot of labor. Okay. And uh, transplanters have not taken root in India. Paddy transplantation has not taken root in India. Here and there they are using it. Okay. But real transplanters are in Vietnam. Real transplanters are in Japan. Okay. They have, they are transformed. Okay. In, in the paddy landscape. Okay. We need to go there and do external work and get these farmers organized in a way that they produce in the most efficient manner and less labor and they can make for anybody. You know, in Pali, nobody makes money.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Okay. MSP is actually a killed paddy. Um. And it's not possible. Okay. In three months, uh, in an acre, three months crop. If you take. If you have a four months crop, sometimes three months crop actually you can make anywhere between 20 to 25 thousand rupees a acre. Imagine in three months, 20, 25 thousand rupees a acre. Best outcome scenario, the worst outcome is zero. Okay. And uh, can you live at 7,000 rupees a month in this world? It's not possible. So therefore that's the value. I see. Okay. For entrepreneurs going in there. Uh, if I can understand people like Mudfield, they have done amazing work in Tamil Nadu. Okay. Amazing work. Go and work with farmers. Okay. Market creation itself is not a big deal. Value creation at the farm. Then we can unlock that mud field they have done. These are some examples people like boomi. Uh, um, vegetables. Okay. Mudfi. Okay. In uh, Paddy, there are a lot of experiments like this which are ongoing. That is a space. Okay. So coming back to your second question, investors. Okay. Um, the problem is that analytics doesn't work on that space. There's no data. So the investors grapple. Okay. If you. If you hire an analyst and say baba, tell me the unit economics of a paddy field. You will go pick up some data available secondary data. Okay. And he can't validate using primary data and pick up all the secondary data and apply. There's no logic here. There's no money making. That's what is the investors with. And how do we change, transform. So see, I don't totally blame investors because there's lack of data. For example, how do you find boomi? No. Damn. They knows they are doing 25 tons a day. Working with farmers created a real value, but will do me get funded. I. I have no idea. Okay. Because that space is not understood properly. And is economics are not understood properly. Extremely seasonal. For example, last four, five days rain. Okay. Is 25 tons have fallen. 212 tons. You m imagine now is the impact on farmer impact on is okay. Commitment to customer. There's a huge fluctuation. So that space is extremely difficult space. You know, um, El Nino effect. Okay, how do you factor that one in your models? Okay. It's nobody. No early onset of monsoon. Okay. Seems to Bangalore seems to be doing well in certain areas. There's absolutely no rain. Even the monsoon test happened. It's a typical pattern of this one. It is expected long term. Okay. Uh, averages. Okay. 30% less than long term. It's serious issue. Um, so how do you factor in okay. In investor this one I don't know. Okay. Um. Can you take a bet? Yes. Okay. Investors, can they take a bet? Yes. And a lot of bets are happening in the philanthropy space. Okay. For sure. I know. Okay. But the lot of let's focus on market orientation. So the venue sort comes in in middle pace or risky piece. There needs to be equal focus on market orientation. Otherwise value realization won't happen. So while you are dealing with the risky piece. Okay. This investor's lack of grappling with data and they're not able to run models. It doesn't justify. Okay. There are host of issues like uh, this. Okay. Uh, how do we organize? I have no idea. I'm not an Englisher. Okay. But my understanding is they're finding lack of data. For example, tell me one good example in India. Okay. From an investor's point of view, we said I agree and a good exit has happened. They look for that pattern. I have no idea. Okay, so uh, then how do you benchmark that? It becomes little bit complicated. Okay. Uh, but okay. For example our low capital took Bettanas. I think somebody should start taking bets. Okay. And uh, probably uh, maybe one in 100 will succeed. Okay. I. I really don't know. But maybe that should be the starting point. That's the way I really look at. Because I um, have nobody to instruct what investors should do. It's not my money.

Speaker B: Got it.

Speaker A: If I had my money, probably I would have taken only Becks. Okay. Uh, for example, people like Shankar. He is probably the only guy in India right now. Okay. Is uh, uh, put in a system some process into place. Grow vegetables and greens in an organized manner with farmers and dog end. He's struggling to rise money they don't understand. Oh, lot of seasonal fertilizations. Of course. Yes. Uh, and you approved at a scale 25 tons a day. It's not small and you're small. Let Me say your ground floor, whatever it is. He operates in a warehouse like that. You can't even go to new warehouse because there's no money. So I'm saying investors I think need to take a view on um, okay. Problem spaces like this. And uh, they need to nurture businesses like that. So that's how my m view on uh, the investors. But for entrepreneurs, it's a huge white canvas. They can paint whatever they want.

Speaker B: Got it. I have one quick question on that. How did you convince your set of investors? Because that might be really valuable to the current set of founders and their tech cell.

Speaker A: So I think the first happened by accident.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Okay. The low capital is a mere accident, Nothing else. Okay. 2016 they wanted to invest with us. They couldn't invest. I think they have been following with us. And one day they told hey, let's go and invest. That's an accident. Further. So uh, very interesting. Okay. We became extremely brutal. So we told this is a 10%, 20%, 30% growth company, agriculture company. Don't expect doubling your uh, uh, revenues every year. That kind of models don't work. Some years it might work, some years it might not work. So the brutal honesty I think bought right investors. For example, Nitin came when a company was shutting down in 2020, middle of a pandemic. In five days time he invested five crores and uh, saved the company. And uh, 2022 he further invested further 60 crores. And 2024 he did a follow on investment. 2025 he did a follow on investment. So there have been lot of support like this. Air interim partners came the most commercial investors possible. I think they have an eye for the problem space which we are operating. It has gone through a lot of trouble in the initial stages. All the glitches have been sorted out. No, I think they are willing to invest in those companies like that. Okay. We need to look for that kind of people also. Okay. And they also know that this company can only grow at 20%, 25%. They, they. Not that they don't have huge expectations. You need to set right expectations. Okay. And British government also they came at a critical point of time and nobody was investing with us. Okay. And they had a conviction on the farmer side story that it is all adding up. Okay. Recently ABC impact from Singapore or came. Catamaran came. Okay. Asha Venture came, Pratiti came. So they all want this space to evolve. But the challenge of reaching there is initial struggles. How do you navigate that? Initial struggles is the key. Okay. So therefore you need to have the right set of people with you. And at least in my case I had this 27 people. Every time I had a problem I used to get a call and say I in 50,000 rupees we are running short of paying salaries. And they took equity. Okay. In the company. These 27 people from Wipro for amazing support. That's how I really see them. As the people who held the torch. Okay. Um, uh, held the land going for first nine years of fortune.

Speaker B: That's wonderful that you have this small ecosystem of 27 co founders. You would recall them. Co founders or the founding team? Largely.

Speaker A: These are founding team. Founding team.

Speaker B: Okay, got it. And how did that founding team come together?

Speaker A: They're all my friends in Wipro, so 70 years of Wipro. They're all basically fools. They thought I'll do something. Okay. So. And uh, there was nothing. But uh, I think they are trusted. Yeah.

Speaker B: Kudos to all the different who kind of have built something so uh, beautiful. Uh, so does things still bother you? What keeps your third tight?

Speaker A: So there are challenges, okay? There are huge challenges in farming, uh, space. The question is how do we accelerate research in farming space? Okay, so we have got the biggest research station in the country, 290 acres of land. We control and do agronomy research. Okay. For profit entity investing in research which is 100 years out. Okay. Outcome. That's what we are really investing in. This is what keeps me awake. Okay? This is the biggest challenge right now for our food production systems. We need to solve. So what is that we need to solve? How do we produce vegetables economically? How do you make sure soil organic carbon adds up incrementally in the farm every year? Uh, soil organic carbon is a depleting resource. How do you make sure that gets added up? How do you accelerate integration of animals into farming? It could be sheep, it could be goat, it could be dairy animal, it could be a poultry, it could be a piggery, it could be anything. But this integration is key. Without animal integration, beauty of animal. No cellulose, which is grasses, which is useless for us. They eat and produce fat and protein for us. So that's the beauty of animal integration farming. We need to accelerate animal integration into farming. Standard animal integration space because you are getting fictional inputs and it becomes unprofitable. So how do we integrate, let me say banana into. Okay, in middle of a, uh, growing uh, fodder. Okay. How do we integrate beekeeping into uh, this entire ecosystem? This needs to amplify. This is one area which actually I spend 90% of my time, okay. Uh, right now.

Speaker B: Got it. And how do you. What does the future of Akshay Kapa look like for you? Maybe say 10, 15, 20 years down there?

Speaker A: See the way what we are trying to build, akshay kalpa, is 100 to 200 years, 300 years institution, what we are trying to build, okay? This is not a near term solution for Indian agriculture. We, we believe there's a lot of scope, okay, for non sales agricultural interventions by extension, outreach programs, et cetera. So I fundamentally believe, for example, right now we are 2,800 net farmers. We don't need a lot of farmers. Maybe in 10 years that will probably double. Okay? That's it. Okay? 2800 to probably become 5000 for 6000 at max, okay? And with that one, we want to go extremely efficient farming systems, okay? Every inch should matter and every inch should be regenerated. So that is a thought process in our mind on research. We are going deeper and deeper. That is a destiny for Akshay Kalpa. I believe in the process there are a lot of customers are required to support us, okay? And lot of markets are required to support us. That's how I am really looking at these customers. And uh, markets will support us because it is their own best interest that they support organizations like this to get an access to good food. That's exactly how I look at it.

Speaker B: Mahavir. I wish all of us kind of get to see, uh, some of it. And wishing you the very, very best, uh, in building Akshay Fulpun, possibly the next 300 years. It remains tall and we all kind of benefit from it. Uh, with that, I think can kind of bringing close to the end of the podcast, but if you have any final thoughts for our viewers, would love to hear,

Speaker A: I think. Thank you very much. First of all, inviting me M. Um, uh, see the, the conundrum, okay, of farming, okay, Needs to be really understood properly, okay? It is not a factory, okay? If after you give an input, you get an output, okay? And all the machinery, people working properly, everything will happen. Everything is under our control. In farming, nothing is under our control. Rain is not under our control, okay? Weather is not under your control. Pest attacks are not under control. Soil is not under your control. Ecology not under your control. Market is not under your control. Nothing is under our control. You know, that is the most riskiest fees we are trying to operate. I think we need to start appreciating this, okay? Towards this. What we are trying to do is, for example, simple things. We need to do as individuals. Do you understand a bee properly? Do you know what is a bee? See, if all the bees dies in this world actually be typo. If we die, all the bees actually flourish. Now we are killing bees left and right. Okay? Now to that initiative. What we have done is any customer who is willing to understand bees will put a bee box in their own, okay? In their balcony. We teach them how to interact with them. See, this is one way of teaching your next generation. Okay? We, we are part of the psychology. We don't own the psychology. How do you become part of it? We are one among you know, I want to close saying, uh, Ham Sagan, one of my heroes, he says, we are hoping that somebody will come and save us from ourselves. Okay? That is the folly of a human thought. And Earth is the only place it is known to harbor life. This is where we make our last time. And let us be, okay? Gracious enough to accept that you are part of a cosmos. Not even a speck in the dot. And I'll sign, uh, off with a joke. Okay? I read, uh, Karl Sagan Cosmos around 10 times. Okay. The book, amazing book. After that, reading that book, now you know that moon is also ours, okay? As an individual moon. Shashi also owns moon. Okay? From earth to moon, all the space he wants. Entire university homes. M. Okay. And finally, my Greatest ambition is 3040 site in HSR. Uh, can you believe? Okay, so with that one, thank you very much, okay. For giving this opportunity. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Speaker B: It was such a pleasure having you. And thank you so much for being so honest and sharing the entire piece. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Speaker C: Dear listeners, thank you for listening to this episode of the podcast. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast app, uh, for free, and you'll be the first one to know when new episodes are available. Just search for Prime Venture Partners podcast in Apple Podcast, Spotify, Castbox, or however you get your podcasts. Then hit subscribe. And if you have enjoyed the show, we would be really grateful if you leave us a review on Apple Podcast. To read the full transcript, find the link in the show notes.