Beyond the Dieline - How Chris Kirby built Ithaca Hummus (part 1)

Speaker A: M Every package starts with an idea. Behind every product is a founder with a vision. A journey filled with bold decisions, unexpected challenges, late nights, and hard won victories. Welcome to beyond the Dieline Founders Edition, a special series from People of Packaging Podcast. I'm Tom Seymour, and together we'll explore the real stories behind today's emerging food and beverage brands and discover how packaging, manufacturing, and the supply chain transform ideas into products people love. Let's go beyond the Dieline. Thank you for joining another episode of beyond the Dieline podcast. I'm very fortunate today to have my good friend and longtime entrepreneur Chris Kirby from Ithaca Hummus with us. Hey, Chris. Welcome.

Speaker B: What's going on, Tom? That was a great intro, man.

Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I, uh, I just recorded that because I really struggle with the intro part of this, like, conversation's never a problem, but I think, you know, like, it can get a little bit awkward when you have to be sitting in front of a webcam and creating some introduction. And I wanted to be great for the audience, so I was able to go through and create a little, little intro to make it a little bit better. So you're the first, um, recording that. We're leveraging that, that new intro. So thank you.

Speaker B: Yeah, great job, man. I like the way you did that. Yeah.

Speaker A: Thank you, thank you, thank you. So, yeah, as I mentioned to you, um, this podcast is all about the transparency of founder life. Um, the idea came from just seeing a lot of highlight real culture and people siloed and not understanding the true journey of an entrepreneur. And, uh, I'm fortunate to have a nice network of people and friends like yourself that, um, have been in the trenches and doing the hard work. And, um, certainly with Ithaca Hummus, there's a ton of, um, highlights that people see, but I feel like the part that they don't often get to see is the vulnerable, kind of tenacious, uh, you know, overcomer of obstacle, kind of, you know, as the fearless leader. Like, I feel like that is really, um, your job and many of the people on your team's job as the team grew. Right. So I'm interested just to, um, give the audience a little bit of a background, um, on how you got started with Ithaca Hummus and um, you know, just a little bit of your background so we can set the stage for, you know, the journey that you took to get to where you are today.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, um, first of all, just thanks for having me on. I think, um, you know, one of the things I've always admired about you is how, um, you are just. You are one of the most selfless people in the space. You know, from a. From the perspective that, you know, you just. You spend so much time. You go out of your way to make sure that you take care of people and you connect people. And, um, you just are a great example of, uh, selflessness and selfless living. And, uh. And I think that's, uh. That's really important. And. And I appreciate you. So I just wanted to say thank you for that and thank you. Thank you for having me on. Uh, but. So you want me to just give you a quick little rundown of Ithaca hummus and the beginning? The. The.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I

Speaker B: mean,

Speaker A: you and I met in New York City, um, at a bar with a team of people from your C.O. packer. Um, the time, you seemed like a really young guy to me, but, like, turns out we're like, you're not that much younger than me. Um, and, like, we hung out and had drinks, and, like, I think we ended up walking Tribeca that night. And, like, you pointed out, like, where the Ghostbusters house was. Like, that's my. My original memory of. Of meeting, um, meeting you. And so I don't know a whole lot. Like, I've heard the story of, like, you know, Chris started this in a farmer's market in Ithaca, but I don't really know, like, the roots of what. What inspired you to go from what you were doing to starting at the hummus. And, uh. So, yeah, I'd love to give the audience. A lot of people don't maybe know the early. The early story of it.

Speaker B: Great. That's awesome. Okay, perfect. Um, so. So, yeah, I'll take you back to when, uh, when I was in high school. Okay. So kind of like my origin story. Um, even before when I was born, my uncle, uh, was a plebe at the Naval Academy, which. Plebes. That's your first year. When you're your first year at the Naval Academy, they do not allow you to go off base at all. You're not allowed to leave. But he wanted to come see me so badly that he jumped the fence, snuck out, came to the hospital, and he was there when I was born.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And that was just such a touching story to hear, you know, from the moment that I could comprehend it, that it was like, wow. Like, I love this person, and I love everything about him, and I just want to emulate that. So my goal from a very young age was. Was to one day go to the Naval Academy. But what Ended up happening was I got into, uh, high school, you know, have always been, um, I guess you could say entrepreneurial, um, you know, understood the value of a dollar, wanted to learn how to make them, make more of them. And, uh, so I started working. You know, I started working when I was, as soon as I could. Thirteen and a half, I think was when I can get my. Yeah, start working part time, whatever. So, so I got a job as a dishwasher, uh, in a restaurant and, you know, just started to fall in love with food, um, from, from a very young age, like watching the line cooks. These guys are, like, became my heroes. And, uh, and that led me into, you know, to becoming a chef. But what it also did that I didn't really plan for was, you know, the restaurant industry is kind of a crazy place to be. You know what I mean? Uh, it's the type of thing where, like, if you're like, hey, uh, uh, let me take a five minute break and just go outside and sit on a milk crate for five minutes, they're like, what are you crazy? We got stuff to do around here. But if you smoke a cigarette, you're good, right? So, so I picked up all these little tips and tricks and bad habits and everything that comes along with it. And by the time I was 16, 16 and a half, I go thumbing through, uh, that book that's in the guidance counselor's office of like, what SAT score and what, uh, GPA you need to get into various colleges and universities. And let's just say, you know, I wasn't where I needed to be to get into the Naval Academy. So, you know, I'm like, okay, well, so I go to the guidance counselor. What do you, what do you like doing, Chris? I love my job. I love to cook. I'm like, cooking now. I'm making pizzas in a pizza place at this point. What about culinary school? I'm like, yeah, that sounds. I picked up Anthony Bourdain's book, Kitchen Confidential. It just came out and I just fell in love with the idea of, like, this is what I want to do with my life. And, um, so I went to culinary school and I worked as a chef for. Until I was 26. And I got to that point, or 26, I had moved around, you know, DC, Las Vegas, Austin, Texas, kind of pinging all over the place, working all these restaurants, having a great time, you know, partying all crazy. Just fun time, but really fun time in my life. Um, but, you know, I also just kind of reflect I Was like, I kind of. I have other goals that I want to. I want to have a family. I want to have a wife and kids and a house. And so I ultimately just decided to do something else. You know, I want to, I want to, I want to go back to the drawing board. So, um, I moved back in with my parents, moved back to Maryland where I'm from, lived with them, went, uh, to community college for a year, biked there, um. Cause I didn't have a car, uh, with a backpack of full books. Um, and then I got into Cornell. Because you go to community college, you get straight A's if you're 26, I mean, and if you don't, what are you doing there? Yeah, so I got straight A's, got into Cornell. Miraculously. Never would have happened if I was an 18 year old, you know, out of high school, but I did. So. And then I get to Ithaca and I'm like, you know, I think I actually wrote in my, um, in my application letter, when I get to campus, I'm starting a company. I'm a chef. I'm just going to be some kind of food company. I don't know what it is yet, but I'm going to come there and I'm going to start this company and I'm going to use all my professors like they're free consultants. And I'm going to, I'm going to get every bit of value out of this that I can. Because this is a big step for me. And they like that. So I got in. So I come to Ithaca, um, and the first week I'm like, okay, so what's it going to be? What am I going to do? I go to the farmer's market. I go to Green Star Food Co Op, which you know well because you're tried and true Upstate New Yorker, Western New Yorker, um, and College Town Bagels. Go to all the kind of iconic spots. And I'm like, what could I do to create and add some value to this community with, you know, the gift and the experience that I have as a chef? And there was no local hummus company. And, um, you know, if you know anything about hummus, it's pretty easy to make. You know, it doesn't cost a whole lot. So I was like, geez. I learned how to make hummus from a Lebanese guy who made it for family meal back in my chef days. He taught me that when I tried his stuff, it was so much better than anything I'd ever tried at a grocery store. And that just Stuck with me and like kind of the stars line. I was like, bang. I'm going to start a hummus company. So um, I applied, I got into the Ithaca farmers market. I made a recipe for lemon garlic hummus, which was our first flavor, and set up a little folding table a few weeks later. And that's how the company started. I rented a, I rented a uh, a little kitchen that was um, a part of a 4H summer, uh, camp, you know. 4H.

Speaker A: Yeah. Was that, was that the place in Groton that I, I.

Speaker B: No,

Speaker A: no, that was. Groton was later.

Speaker B: Groton was later. So, so I started in this little summer camp that was owned by the local 4H group.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: They only used. And so, so they, so they had a kitchen that you know, was food safe, they're certified and everything. So I, um, was able to use that kitchen, rented it for 250amonth. They only needed it two weeks out of the summer. That's all the, all the time, you know, because the rest of the year it's buried in snow basically. So, um, so I was able to get that for 250amonth, which I paid at the end of the month, by the way, at the beginning, because I needed it. I didn't have the cash. So got um, that for 250 bucks a month. I went out and I bought six 45 quart, um, big, big aluminum pots. It had a little six burner stove in this kitchen. That's where I cooked the chickpea big, um, stick blender, uh, like, like think about like, like the little one you have on your countertop. You make smoothies and stuff with just a giant one. Got one of those, a bunch of buckets and I would blend the hummus up in those buckets like that, you know, use an ice cream scoop. Portioned it out into little deli cups, put it on a little scale, weigh it out 10, 10 ounces each. It's good. Go. I had these um, you know, the tamper evident seals. I would use my, my girlfriend's hair dryer to, to get the heat activated seal to shrink around them and just sit there and you would do six at a time, you know, you wouldn't do them one at a time. You'd still stack them six high and just sit there and do it efficiently as possible. Um, and you know, it was a little 10 by 15, little tiny kitchen, you know. But that was my whole world for at least two years. It was the kitchen, it was the office, it was where I studied, it was where I ate. It was where I slept. It was my whole world. And it was awesome. You know, cost like two grand to get this thing going. And, um, and it was great. And. And then I moved to Groton, which was well before I moved to Groton. The first thing that happened, though, I'll have to say, I showed up at that farmer's market, and I stood there handing out samples. Handing out samples. Ithaca farmers market. 5,000 people on a Saturday come through that place. So it is. It's mobbed. It is probably. It's one of the best places. It's the best place I could have launched it, right? Because there's just an endless flow of consumers. New trial, right? People who are looking, their antennas are up for something, like a little Ithaca hummus standing there, which I was. And so they came up. You wouldn't. You couldn't pass by without getting the sample, first of all, you know, So I was definitely loud and proud. And, um, and the reaction when people tried the product for the first time was the first thing that let me know. I was like, oh, they love it. They love it. Like, they don't just like it. It's not like, yeah, uh, that's pretty good. Let me go see the peaches over here. It's like, no, this is awesome. Can I have, like, five of them? So, you know, I. I pretty quickly, I was like, okay, so it's. It's 1 for 5, 2 for 9, and 3 for 12. I think it was a little tiered, you know, bundle and save, if you will, uh, pricing structure. And, um, you know, and I just. I was in it. I was in the groove. I felt like I'm on to something here. Um, and then we got into Green Star Co Op, and then we got into Wegmans, the. The Ithaca Wegmans. Just the one store. And after, like, four weeks, we were selling like, a thousand cups a week in that one store. And so, um, so that was the second sign. It was like, not only can I just. Every weekend at the farmer's market, I can't make enough. I'm selling out now. I'm in a store. They can't keep it on the shelf. And, you know, I think, you know, the reason all that happened is because of the quality of the product. It tastes the best. Ithaca hummus tastes the best. It's the best tasting hummus in the category, hands down. Always has been, always will be. That was the. That was the gift that we had. And, you know, I was super naive. I had no idea what I was Doing had no idea. I was not worried about how do you, um, how do you manufacture hummus? You know, what's the manufacturing process at a big manufacturing. I didn't give a shit about that.

Speaker A: I

Speaker B: had no idea. I didn't care. All I wanted to know was, how do I make the best hummus? Well, then we'll figure out how to manufacture that. That thing once we. Once we get the. Let's. Let's make the best hummus first. And that's what we did. And then we moved to Groton and then we moved to Ludestri Foods, which co packer and got. And that enabled me to really focus on the brand and the sales and the marketing, um, and built a team and go on from there. Rest is history. But it started in a little tiny summer camp in the middle of the woods in Ithaca, New York.

Speaker A: That is awesome and inspiring for others to know that it is possible. It is possible. And I think the story that you told about your uncle's defiant spirit really is something that, like, has to be in you to push out into the entrepreneur space. Right. Like, a lot of people romance over being an entrepreneur. Very few jump into the deep end. Right. And like, I feel like you have to have that defiant spirit. So, like, that was something that from birth, like your uncle inadvertently maybe kind of passed on to you, you know, and then

Speaker B: I. No one's ever pointed that out to me before. I appreciate you saying that. Ah, yeah. I think you're absolutely right, though.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And I can resonate with everything that you said because I think we've established this before. You and I had a similar path. I was in hospitality for 16 years before transitioning over. And I did everything from. From dishwashing to room service, to line cook to waiter to busboy to bartender. It. When you talk about how much fun the restaurant business is, undeniably the most fun part of my life. But,

Speaker B: um. You remember the movie Hook?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Lost Boys.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I felt like I was a lost boy, man. I was Peter Pan. I never had to grow up. It was great. It was great for a while until.

Speaker A: Although it's a young person's game, um, not to cast shade on anybody that does it like, um, you know, longer and later into their life, but

Speaker B: for sure

Speaker A: the majority and. And you run out of energy and like, it's not like, conducive. It wasn't conducive for me with starting a family and those goals that you had, like getting a house and settling down. And so, you know, like, you a Little bit different path, um, pivoted into something other, into the food. Food manufacturing, CPG and packaging space. And. And for you, it was hummus. So it's just kind of incredible to me, like, uh, that it just goes to show that you don't have to. And I was like you. I didn't have the grades. Like, I went to play college football, Brockport. I got in an exceptional talent program because I was, like, a C student and I didn't try Ms. Ets, Right. It wasn't important to me. But what's important is, like, people watching this. You can come from any walk of life, right? Like, you can have all the odds stacked against you. You can overcome it. You don't have to be a traditional. I went to Cornell for food science and. And maybe that is the path, right? Like, I know people that that was the path. But, like, that's the beauty of food and CPG is it's. It's a passion industry. Um, it's accessible to people. Um, and really what it requires is tenacity.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker A: and if you're tenacious and you can come up with a good idea and. And figure out how to overcome the obstacles and there's a chance that you can make it. And making it, by the way, looks different for all people. Right? Like, I try to counsel that. Like, okay, so maybe it's a brand that you keep small and you run as a family brand for the rest of your life, and you live making an income from that. Or maybe you have your sight set on, like, a big exit and, like, so it. Again, there's so many different paths that you can take. Um, but the path that you took for Ithaca hummus was quite amazing. And, like, I feel like you hit it at a time when, like, hummus, like, I don't know, it's like some. Would you agree, a little bit of, like, right place, right time. Like, hummus was becoming hot and. But it was, like, manufactured, like, not great hummus.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, first of all, uh, definitely right place, right time. Actually, before I even go into this, I really appreciate what you said about anybody who is working as a chef or. Or in the hospitality, um, you know, industry. You can make a life and a living there. Don't get me wrong. That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm saying I was there for the wrong reasons. Right? I was there because it looked fun. Right. I wasn't. But anyway, um, yes, uh, right place, right time. Anybody who's successful and says there wasn't A little bit of luck involved is just an asshole. Arrogant. Um, I was at the right place at the right time, and the. The place was from a category perspective. Sabra had taken the category from weird. You know, when you and I were growing up, if you had hummus in your lunchbox, it was weird. Weird. By the time I started the company, if you had hummus in your lunchbox, it was cool. You were doing something good for yourself, you cared about yourself, you were eating healthy, you wanted. Blah, blah, blah, you know, so Sabra did that. Saber did that. Sabra took the category from probably about $30 million, somewhere in the neighborhood of 600, 700, $800 million.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Sabra did that. That's what they did. Okay. A lot of respect. You know, we're standing on. We're all standing on the shoulders of giants, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Sabra is a giant. They were a giant. They are a giant. Um, somewhere along the way, they. I think it's when PepsiCo bought them. Sorry, if anybody from PepsiCo, I. Sorry. I had to say that. When PepsiCo bought them, they started cost reducing and all the MBAs, you know, and the ivory towers are like, we can just save a little half a clip a penny off here and this and that. Bink, bing, bing. All of a sudden you got a product that's just like, not. It's a shell of its former self, you know, Uh,

Speaker A: I think they call that value engineering.

Speaker B: Value engineering started happening in the category driven by Sabra and at the same time, because Sabra was what you would call a single titan in the category. It was a single titan category. It's how, um. And Sabra was the titan. That means there were a ton. There was a long tail of other brands that were like, just like. We just need to be just like Sabra put it. They have a green. They have a red lid. We'll do a green lid. You know, they got a red lid, we'll do a black lid. They put red peppers in it. We'll put olives in it. You know, so all these followers came in, including private label. And, you know, what you ended up with was just this category that was just a complete sea of sameness. M.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: I would watch people shop the shelves, and it's just like zombies. Like, what's on sale this week because it's all the same stuff. Just give me the buy one, get one free because I am trying to feed my family. That's what that. The category had been kind of degraded to that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Perspective. Ithaca was at the Right place at the right time in that sense, because I came at it as a chef, I wasn't value engineering anything.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: The value that I was engineering was how much value can I add to the consumer? Because they want the stuff that tastes the best. That's the value. I was interested in it engineering how do I make it taste the best. And I just got lucky along the way to find the right team and the right partners and co packers who would put up with somebody like me saying, you can't buy pasteurized lemon juice. Ah. Or lemon concentrate. You got to squeeze the lemons by hand. You know, can't use garlic powder. We got to bring fresh cloves of raw garlic in here.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: You know, before we, before we dump those fresh ingredients into the chickpea mash, we got to cool the chickpeas down so that we don't put cold pressed lemon juice into hot chickpea like that. I understand that it's more efficient to move it around your plant while it's all still hot. It's more pumpable and it's faster and it's not. But that's not what's going to make it taste the best. So we gotta do it the right way if we're gonna do this at all. Right. And that was always and always has been and always will be my perspective on food. People are gonna put it in their mouth. So let's make sure we make it the right way. Uh.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And so that's what I did. The category was ready for it, needed it. And um, you know, we did a lot of everything else. Everything else we did wrong. We got the product right. Everything else we did wrong. And it's just been a process of like, keep the product good and learn how to do all the other stuff as you keep going slowly over time, one day at a time, brick by brick. And that's, that's kind of the my story. But um. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. I feel like you, um, did for the hummus dip aisle what Chobani did for yogurt. Right. Like if you looked at the yogurt aisle, Preachobani, it was old all the same. It was kind of commoditized. Like people were just shopping for the cheapest. And then Chobani came in and shook it up with. M.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yo, what's up brother?

Speaker A: Hey. Um, so we had a brown out, but it's still recording thankfully.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So I think we're good. I'm trying to get myself back connected.

Speaker B: Okay. No sweat, man.

Speaker A: So hold on. Hold on one second.

Speaker B: Okay, perfect.

Speaker A: All right, we're back. And it seems as though we're still recording so that it's easy enough. We can just edit that chunk out. Can you hear me

Speaker B: okay? Totally. No sweat.

Speaker A: Okay. All right, so let me just, uh. Let's see. Got one more thing to set up and then they can just note to make the edit here. So, um, where I left off is what I was saying was that you had done for the, um, dip in hummus aisle what I feel that Chobani did for the yogurt aisle, which was taken aisle that was boring and old, and introduce a product that was superior in quality, different premium and. And then you saw that aisle blow up and saw all sorts of others enter that space and create really cool like, um, Siggy and. And some of the others that came behind Chobani and today, like, the yogurt aisles revolutionized because of that.

Speaker B: And

Speaker A: I feel like that's where Ithaca hummus, like, you came in with a premium product that delivered on quality. And like, just to talking about packaging, like, you totally shook it up. Like, the whole aisle is in round, and here you come in a square container.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So

Speaker B: I just unpacked. Ah. From our packaging supplier at Airlight. Little minis. Little minis. We're gonna do little mini Guillermo salsa. Little mini Ithaca hummus right here. I mean,

Speaker A: nice.

Speaker B: Yeah, dude. Just packaging. You want. You want it? You wanted to. You want the story behind the square packaging?

Speaker A: Yeah. How did you decide square instead of round?

Speaker B: Oh, yeah. This is gonna be good for your audience. Um, because what most people think and assume is that, oh, it was just some genius idea to, like, go against the norm and just totally buck the trend. No, the reason we're in square packaging is because we didn't have any money. We didn't have any money. I moved. I moved production to the Destri Foods. They had a filling line that had tooling that was built for a square cup. It was $60,000.

Speaker A: If

Speaker B: I wanted to get retooling to get into a round cup, I was like, uh, I guess. I guess we're doing. I guess we're going to be in a square. That's why we're in a square.

Speaker A: And now that differentiates you in the aisle. And talk about right time, right place. I know there's been a ton of hard work because I've been fortunate to be side by side behind the scenes with it. The comments, kind of seeing how things have gone over the years. I'm very fortunate to have been along for the ride. It's helped me as an entrepreneur, um, immensely. But um, yeah, like, like the Ladestri thing, like so FLX Foods, Danny Wegman, um, Willie Strasberg, Mike Career, Frank cavallaro, uh, Giovanni LeDastri, they're all part of this FLX food thing. And they work to get HPP to western New York, collaborating with Wegmans and Ladiestri and, and Cornell. And like, not only do they have stock tooling in a square that ends up being a differentiator, but they also bring on a technology that like, at the time there was nothing like it here in western New York. HBP had been used for a long, long, long, long time. But there was nothing here. And like the suppliers were far and few between throughout the country. And so what's the chance that like as you're creating this in Danny, Willie and Giovanni's mind, they're like, hey, we should bring this technology. Like it's just again, a lot of hard work, but a lot of really cool stuff that just happened to align, um, to really give you the opportunity to do something extraordinary.

Speaker B: Well, here's the thing about luck. Okay. You know, have you, uh, you know the artist, the great artist who, who paints the most amazing paintings and then hangs them up in his garage? You know him?

Speaker A: No,

Speaker B: no, you don't do. But uh, the guy that makes his thing and then takes it down to the town square, takes it down to the, you know, and gets his stuff out there, that's the, that's the one you hear about, right? You got to get yourself out there. You got to get yourself out there. Then everything else has to work. Then you, uh, then you have to get lucky. But it does start with, you got to get out there. You got to put yourself out there. You got to go talk about your idea. You can't be afraid. You know, you have to have faith that what you're doing will work. Because if you're afraid and you're driven by fear, like, like we all are, right? As naturally as humans, we're self preserving beings, we want to survive. So we use fear as a way to do that. Um, but if you can break that down and you can say, no, I want to get out there, I'm going to put my thing out there. I'm going to go stand in front of a crowd that Danny Wagman is in and say, hey, this is my new company. I just started. I'm nervous. I'll probably tell a joke. Were you there that night?

Speaker A: I wasn't There that night. No.

Speaker B: Have you heard of this story?

Speaker A: I haven't, no.

Speaker B: Oh, God. So I was. So I was in front of, uh, they. They used to do these dinners up in Rochester.

Speaker A: We started them back, by the way. FLX food is back and running.

Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. So this is it. Yeah. So. So it was at next Door Bar and Grill. Is that where you're doing it?

Speaker A: Yep. Uh, no, we're doing it all over the place. The past few have been at New York Kitchen,

Speaker B: so I did. There's my daughter Jane. Jane, you don't want to be on, uh, the Internet, so let's go that way. I know, but I'm almost done. This is gonna. No, not this time though. But I'll come find you as soon as I'm done.

Speaker A: We'll. We'll edit. We'll edit this piece out.

Speaker B: Hey, why don't. Why don't I do. I'd love to tell this Finger Lake story too because. Because it's a good one. It's a really good one. Um,

Speaker A: do you wanna. Do you wanna. I can go into like a tie up segment since we only have a couple minutes left. And then, and then we'll say like, hey, let's schedule another, um, follow up episode.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, let's do that. Let's do that. Could you just give me two minutes, Go around that corner and then I'll tell you when you can come back in. Okay. Okay, that's fine too. Oh, you know, you can go right there on the other side of the desk. All right, that's good. That's good. Okay, we're ready.

Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. So I think, um, what you're saying really boils down to like, where, uh, luck is kind of where preparation meets opportunity. And so, um, you know, I love everything that you. Oh,

Speaker B: you cannot come on camera while

Speaker C: he's.

Speaker B: Okay, baby. But listen, let me try to get this finished and then I can give you a hug. Okay. And I'll let you know when. So just stand right there, please. Okay, that. That works too. Okay. Sorry, Tom. Thank you.

Speaker A: That's okay. Yeah. So, um, you know, I think what you're saying is really like, luck is equivalent to preparation, um, meets opportunity. And it's just amazing that you had the opportunities come when they did and that you were prepared to jump at them. So. I

Speaker B: know. Do that. Do that again. Do that again. Because you said luck is where. Where something. Where it meets. That's the saying. Say that again. Because. Yeah, really well the first time. And then just.

Speaker A: Yeah,

Speaker B: that's just. We're good. All right. Yeah.

Speaker A: So, um, it's interesting what you said, because I think really, luck is where preparation meets opportunity. And it's just really incredible that you were able to have the opportunities come and that you're prepared to capitalize on them. Um, I know that today we're short on time, so, um, for the audience, they're going to be lucky enough to get a second episode so that we can hear more about the incredible journey, the kind of second half of the journey, a little bit more about packaging and, um, and maybe even getting into a little bit on the Guillermo side. Um, but I want to thank you so much for coming on today, um, giving a taste of, ah, Ithaca hummus to the listeners and, um, really looking forward to episode two, um, so that we can dive into some of those later struggles, um, that you had to overcome in order to, um, rise above the rest and really become a category, ah, leader in the hummus space.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Matt, let's do it soon too. I really appreciate your, um, you know, your leadership as just being someone who lives a life of service to others and, um, connecting people and so let's maybe do it tomorrow or like early next week or something.

Speaker A: Okay, sounds good. We'll get back scheduled and get another episode going. It was so great to see you and look forward to next time. We can chat. Um, just hang on one second.