S3E01: Janice Suter - Director of Social Media, GSD&M

Speaker A: Foreign. Hey everyone, this is Ksenia Muntin and welcome to another episode of People of Marketing podcast. I'm, um, the founder and CEO of Planable, the collaboration tool for social teams. And I launched this podcast to take a sneak peek into the lives of top marketers. Every week we explore the story of their careers, the choices, mistakes, wins and imperfections of their work life. Our guest today is Janice Sutter, GSD and EM's, um, head of Social. Janice oversees the agency's thriving social media practice, providing strategic leadership and mentorship to her team, the staff and the agency's clients, including some amazing clients such as U.S. air Force Capital One, Pizza Hut and more. Her expertise spans leadership on the evolving social space, generating new business opportunities, seeking out diverse talent and skill sets, and managing day to day operations of the agency's social practice. Janice, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today on People of Marketing.

Speaker B: Well, thanks, thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk with you and um, I'm really excited about just your podcast. I've enjoyed listening to the episodes and just hearing, you know, everyone's backstory and kind of the people behind, behind the, uh, role. So thanks for providing that, that platform.

Speaker A: I'm so happy to hear that. Thank you so much. Um, and that's exactly, you know, what we're going to start with your backstory. That is the best, the best way to kickstart this conversation. I just love diving into people's, uh, journey and their backstory and I want to walk a bit through your career and connect the dots. Um, and the first question that I have for you is, do you remember what was your first interaction with marketing ever? And you know, what do you think got you into marketing in the first place?

Speaker B: It's a great question and it's something, you know, you don't really consciously think when you're a kid or young. You know, you don't think about the power, you know, of brands and marketing like consciously. But when I think about that question, I remember as a child, you know, my mom, um, you know, worked from home and, you know, raising us kids and she used to watch soap operas, you know, during the day. And I remember the commercials and those soap operas. And she was, she sang the jingles all the time, constantly in our home. And I, it was funny, I used to tease her. I was probably seven or eight years old, you know, during this time period. And she would just be, you know, singing, uh, like a Folgers commercial around the house. And it just it wasn't a conscious thought, but. But I soon really learned the power of brands, you know, and kind of the presence that they have in our lives and, uh, you know, to be actually taking and materializing, you know, in a person that way. She's a singing, uh, advertisement. Um, and she really. It was very entertaining. So it's just a fun, kind of random story about my first interaction with, you know, the power of brands and how they are so present in our lives. Uh, and I think that did make an impression on me that I brought into my adult life 100%.

Speaker A: Uh, the way, you know, the power the brands have to get into your

Speaker B: head is a little jingle is all it takes.

Speaker A: Yes. You can't get rid of them. Um, I love your backstory. I think it's a beautiful way of getting, um, familiar, uh, acquainted with, uh, the marketing world. Um, walk us a little bit through your career afterwards. You know, what did you study and when did you get started with marketing as a profession?

Speaker B: Sure, sure. I studied advertising at the University of Texas here in Austin. Um, that's where I currently reside. It's a city that's very difficult to leave, I'll tell you that. So a wonderful city, really booming, and a great place to live. I'm not inviting more people to come, but, uh, I am just expressing my, uh, love for the city. Um, so I studied, uh, advertising, graduate the degree in advertising. And, um, the job market wasn't great when I graduated, but, um, so I took an internship. You know, worked. Worked for free. You know, it was an unpaid internship to be able to make a connection at GSD&M. And that was, you know, this was the advertising agency, the place where everyone wanted, um, to work. Uh, and so that was my ultimate goal. But I did, because of the economy. I did get into, um, the catering gig and did that for a few years after graduating. Um, and I had the opportunity, because of this internship, uh, to get in kind of on the ground floor in a media capacity as a kind of a media buyer planner, to support a big piece of business that was just brought in to, um, GSD and M. So it was a dream come true to get that role and to be working for this company, this storied advertising agency that I'd heard so much about in that drive. Buy the building every day. And it was really exciting for me, and I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I just knew that this was a good place to start. And, you know, if you look at my resume, my LinkedIn, you'll see. It has been a winding road of roles, very diverse roles, roles that are somewhat, you know, just leaning into innovation and new things. So that was something that, I guess I realized that about myself is just my innate curiosity for what's new, what's next. And it really did drive me to find new roles, you know, as I, as I progressed, as I moved up the ladder and had interest and raised my hand and made sure that, you know, people that had influence and power within the organization were essentially mentors. And I had a person here that really listened to me and she asked me, write your job description, write your dream job on paper and share it with me. And that was kind of that moment in my career where I expressed what I wanted to do in a way, in a very tangible way, and someone inside the organization was able to be that invisible hand, um, to help break down barriers, to create. Because these are all new roles that I, that I, uh, walked into. I think there were about three roles that were just created for, for me and my desire to, you know, to, to lean into a passion that I had, but also to fill a business need that I felt was, was lacking as new platforms were developing, whether that was interactive television or social or mobile or those things that were coming along. And I've been around, uh, for a while. So, yeah, I just wanted to absorb and learn and create new spaces to communicate with people and work, uh, with vendors and entrepreneurs that, you know, to create spaces for that kind of new communication. And that was really exciting for me. So as long as I can kind of feed that curiosity and just learning new things as I grow in my career, and I'm always growing, I'm still growing. And having a mentor and someone to champion you throughout that journey, that was really key for me. And going beyond kind of that first job into more emerging media platforms than digital strategy and then to where I am now, um, as far as heading up the, uh, social practice here and, uh, loving this position, knowing that there's, you know, always something, uh, around the corner to develop and build teams around and build a practice around. So I'm always, always up for, uh, what's next?

Speaker A: I have so many questions. So, first of all, that was a lot. No, no, that's, that's very interesting. So I'm actually on your LinkedIn, on your LinkedIn page right now. And you know, you mentioned that when you joined, uh, uh, gsdnm, you are already looking up to this agency. So I see that, you know, you've been with the company for 25 years. How old is the company? Tell us a little bit about the agency.

Speaker B: Yes, uh, the agency. It's funny that you ask because we will be celebrating our 50th anniversary, uh, this summer. So we're really excited. It's been an interesting year leading up to it. Um, you know, I know there's other companies. Uh, our client Southwest Airlines is kind of in the same. They're celebrating their 50th, um, anniversary as well. So it's interesting in this era of COVID where we've all been somewhat, you know, um, secluded to be celebrating such a big milestone. But we're starting to do that. You know, we're starting to emerge out of, out of the quarantine and start to really mark that milestone. And uh, when I think about us turning 50 as an organization and thinking about the founders who came out of University of Texas, it's a great story and well documented, but they wanted to start a company, um, and to be in advertising, but they wanted to be here in Austin. Um, this is the place that they loved, as I've kind of experienced coming out of school as well. And um, gosh, look at what they've built. It's really pretty amazing. The iconic brands, um, that they've worked with, including, you know, Southwest Airlines, United States Air Force, uh, there are, there are so many, um, to list. But, um, so that's. I feel like I've kind of grown up with this company, you know, and I've seen it. I've seen the twists and turns, the ups and downs, the wins, the losses, um, the relationships. They're all, you know, it's what keeps me here and in the culture is, is so strong and it's something that, you know, to be able to take a person coming in and help them evolve and find brand new roles like that, that says something about the culture that they're, they're embracing change. Our chairman called it, you know, embracing change. Kiss it on the lips. You know, it's, it's, it's about. That is what our jobs are every day. And um. So, yeah, just thinking about the, uh, those iconic brands and the brands that we get to work with is really exciting, is what keeps me here every day. So we definitely do plan to celebrate. We commemorate every year that we're here with a thing that happened, like a moment. And we create. It's a poster series for love and momentum, we call it. And um, so every year we celebrate, uh, something that really marked the year. And so every year on our anniversary, um, we Unveil that. And so it'll be really interesting to see what that is on our 50th anniversary. It's something everyone looks forward to, and, uh, everyone wants to be part of that thing. Know, that is. That is really, uh, stamped in history as part of our, you know, part of our history as a company. And, uh, everyone, you know, plays a role along the way.

Speaker A: Many people would consider themselves to be super, super lucky to find a place where they can grow like you did. And, you know, one. One place where they can grow like this. Um, most careers look very different to yours.

Speaker B: I realize I'm a unicorn.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yes, A unicorn. That's the best description because it's, you know, it's lucky, uh, to be able to find a place where you can grow, where, um, you don't hit a ceiling in terms of your growth, where the culture fits, where you can evolve and grow with the company at the same time. Um, but, you know, many people's careers look different, and I think there's even a trend today of, you know, changing jobs. And many people have this mentality of, you know, if I stay with the job for too long, uh, you know, I'm not evolving, I'm not growing. I need to be changing jobs. What, like, what do you think about that?

Speaker B: For me, yeah, as I've been able to evolve into different roles. And I will tell you very honestly, you know, as I have stayed here and changed roles, sometimes I do reflect on, okay, is this good for me to be here this. This long? What does this look like on paper, you know, to the outside world? Is it something I. Is this. Is this something I'm proud of? Is this something I'm, you know, does this feel like I've limited myself along the way and I finally have just embraced that? I am absolutely. I'm proud of this journey, and I'm happy to be a unicorn. You know, I think I demonstrate every day how, uh, this place has, um, you know, helped. Helped me grow and, uh, you know, to be able to immerse yourself and be a specialist in so many areas, but also to evolve as a leader. So I think every. The leadership is constantly changing because your teams are changing, your practice is changing, your methods are changing. It's just. It's also human. And that's why what's so great about this podcast is that it's. Teams are made up of human beings. And so my job is different every day because my. My job is really them. It's not about. It's about them. And Celebrating them and the outputs and um, those change every, every single day. Uh, so as a, as I don't. And that really evolves anywhere you are when you, when you kind of get into that leadership position, it really is all about you growing, um, a team and evolving and keeping keeping pace, uh, with what's happening. You know, our priorities eight years ago are absolutely 100% different, um, even in the social realm, um, today than we were eight years ago when, you know, algorithms were different. We were pretty assured that people were seeing everything we were putting out. Now that's changed, that's different. So we have to lean into different ways to engage people. And so that means, you know, finding different kinds of people to make up that team and to understand kind of the rhythms of the social ecosystem and how brands operate within it. It's just very different. Um, so I've embraced, from a leadership perspective, I really have embraced my longevity here and uh, I love it when people, you know, new people come in and then I learn from them and I just absorb like a sponge and it's like, oh, wow, this is awesome. Uh, so, you know, I hope I can bring that to people, um, that are coming in and that they can learn from me as well. But I really do, I do thrive with new people coming in and I, um, so I think it's a little bit of both. You know, I think we need to cycle and we need to have new experiences, new organizations. So I wouldn't necessarily advise anyone against, yeah, like moving around every couple of years and really just absorbing what, what you want out of a company so that, you know, when it comes time to really finding a home where you can dig in and put in some years and really grow like, you know, you know exactly what you, what you want and what you want out of your company because it is a give and take. It is, it absolutely is a marriage. And I've been married for uh, for, for about as long as I've been working for Giustina too. So you.

Speaker A: The secrets to life. Long marriage and a long relationship. And a long relationship with the company. Okay, so, you know, we, you mentioned social, um, and you are currently, uh, leading social in the agency. Ah, you're the vp, Director of social at ah, GSD and M. And I, you know, I want to ask you, like, marketing is a very, very large field and the creative service, uh, in terms of the agency is also, you know, you can pick from a lot of things. What do you think made you choose, um, choose social media particularly? Did you choose it or was it something that, you know, uh, naturally came to you? Was it a plan or more like it grew on you, uh, in time and you just, you know, kind of m. Found yourself in these shoes, right?

Speaker B: I think it's a little bit of both. I think I chose it. It shows me I was in a position where I was, um, exploring new, new media platforms. We called it, you know, emerging media now, which seems so outdated because really nothing. I mean, it's just something new every day. But, you know, at that point it was like social and mobile were like the big. Okay, this is like the new, the new frontier. And I love that. You know, it was like you had your, your Facebook profile, you know, in college, and that was pretty much the extent of it. It was kind of like limited to, um, to the college population. And then it just, you know, became public and then everything else sprouted out of that. Um, so it's, it's. Yeah, it's changed so much, but it wasn't even on the map when I, When I started here, social was not even, you know, a channel, um, in any, in any way, shape or form. Um, so when I started seeing, like, the ability to read, like, the conversational elements of it, you know, to understand what people, it wasn't so much from a content perspective. It was more about a conversational perspective and understanding and being able to have a pulse on, um, what people are thinking and feeling their emotions around, you know, their lives and even around, you know, activities, brands, uh, categories like that's super powerful. And the very earliest stages of that were really appealing to me. Like, wow, we can converse in this way with each other and in public, um, and express our opinions. I just think that's just the core of us as being human is this desire to express ourselves. And I think that's just what attracted me to it and pulled me in. But then there was an opportunity. We were doing, gosh, way back in the old days, I mean, you know, 15 years ago, we were doing it here in the agency in different ways to support different clients, but it wasn't centralized. There was no like, formalized practice around it or career paths or tool sets or things like that. So, you know, the need was there and I was looking, you know, for something new. And, uh, so, you know, I was presented with the opportunity to lead it and to start to create a practice, a story, a vision that ties in with the overall agency story as an integrated full service agency. Where does social fit in? And I think that has something to do with organizations where social Fits. And this seems to be a theme with a lot of the social people you talk to is. It's messy and it doesn't necessarily live in one place in an organization because it touches everything. It's intertwined with, you know, with customer service, with, with advertising, with, with marketing, with customer care, with, uh, consumer insights. You know, that rich, valuable conversational data that you can extract from social to, to inform. You know, the way we brief creative, the way we create platforms around brands, it's. It's so powerful. It's like a. I always call it a 247 focus group. You know, Twitter is just this amazing treasure trove of, uh, uh, insights that we, you know, that we mine every day. And you know, consciously or unconsciously, it's there, um, but the opportunity was there to build a practice and it is, it is, uh, it's far exceeded my expectations as far as the potential and what we've been able to make out of it and what we've been able to do, you know, the output of it, how it's changed this agency. And um, yeah, I'm just so happy that I had the opportunity to be able to lead it and see it grow and change and evolve with the time.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, tell us a little bit about your role today. What does it look like? I know there is no typical day, uh, in the social media world and in the agency world as well. Um, but how would you describe a typical day in your work life? How do you start your day? If you have any routines, you know, what's the first thing you check on your phone? Um, basically, how does your day or your week go? You know, how big is your team, how many meetings you have, that kind of stuff?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Well, I try to, I try to keep balance. So, you know, every day, really, the night before, I just look at my. I look at the day ahead and I just kind of assess, okay, where, where do I need, where am I playing a role? Basically, I'm just trying to ensure that I have enough time to think and process, uh, and to solve problems. Um, and that is really. And to meet one on one with my team. I definitely protect that time, um, to help them and to, uh, help them work through problems and challenges. And so I just try to make sure that I have enough space. And if I don't, um, because we all have those back to back to back to back, uh, I try to find it because I, and I will push something, I will create space in my day to be able to, um, operate in an efficient way. And to be able to do the things that I need to do to be effective. And that's checking in with my team, making sure that they're okay. Uh, and then more kind of the development, the work development, um, and of course the, the meetings. So I do have a, you know, I am kind of a list. I think a lot of people that you interview are, uh, or talk with our list makers. I think we just have to have some sort of structure in our lives. And so I have like, I have a short list of the things before you are checking out for the day. You've got to get these things done. And then there's my kind of stretch list. So, um, but I do have a trick that has worked for me a little bit. It's that. Tell us if anyone's. It's called the Pomodoro method. And it's been. Yes, it's been documented. It was a New York Times article that someone shared here at work. And I was like, oh, this is exactly what I need. Because I can, you know, as a social professional, we are constantly distracted by, um, our phones. And I mean everybody does, but especially us because it is our, it's part of our job. So you can so easily get pulled in because it's like, well, I have to do this for my job. I have to check what's trending and make sure that, you know, um, that, that we're keeping our clients, you know, safe and looking at the content through that lens, all of that.

Speaker A: For those out there who don't know what the Pomodoro technique is, it's basically chunks of work followed by small, smaller chunks of, uh, breaks. What is it? Is it like 45 minutes of work and then 15.

Speaker B: Right? I've been doing 20. Yeah, I think the traditional, uh, first level is 20 minutes and five minutes break. So I, what, so what I do is I set my timer on my phone, I put my phone face down, kind of away from my reach. And um, so it's basically like an, you know, it's based on the old fashioned egg timers, you know, in kitchens. The, uh, pomodoro, it's like shaped like a, like a pomodoro. Um, and so, yeah, and then if you go another 20 minutes, then you get, I think, I think a 10 or 15 minute break. So if you're in the groove and you're focused and that 20 minutes is up and you don't want to break the rhythm, then you just set another 20 minutes and then you take another 10 to 15 minute break. So yeah, I'm glad. That's great. You've heard of that and practiced that and I think it's been um, good for a lot of people. I have good days of Pomodoro and I have bad days of Pomodoro where I just can't because of the meetings. They get in the way. But um, so it's good if I have a big space of time where I'm trying to be productive and really knock out a lot of um, challenges or problems or just you know, brain teasers, uh, whether it's just team development or ah, business problem, um, that has really helped me kind of get through those things.

Speaker A: That's such a good pro tip for productivity. I love it. I tried the Pomodoro technique myself. I could never stick with it, to be honest. I don't know why. Um, it's hard. Like you need to build that routine and it's right. Really need to build that skill of like following it. And you also need like as you mentioned, you know, the chunk of time to actually do it. But it is such like, if you can master it, it's such a great technique.

Speaker B: It really is. It's not muscle memory for me by any stretch, but I know it's there and if I have the right kind of day for it. Mhm. I'll definitely, I'll definitely do it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, you know, let's continue talking shop a little bit. Uh, since you mentioned tools, are there any other tools out there that you use, um, to stay productive at work?

Speaker B: Well, yeah. Productive. Yeah, I was going to say Twitter and I was like, well that's actually kind of the opposite. But I use it really to ingest a lot of news. And it's kind of like that dashboard for me of uh, understanding what's happening in the world, what people, what people care about. You know, what does the Internet care about today? And I think that's just such a discovery tool. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's both utility and kind of self care. And um, it helps feed my soul, my brain and my um, you know, it informs all the work that I do. And you know, having a team who lives and breathes in social, I just have so much respect for them and their ability to um, just to know what's happening at any given moment, to know what's cool, what's trending. I mean that's just, that's what they do. And they are so good at it. And they teach me um, things every day. And um, so I kind of, you Know, I've adopted these habits. Twitter is the first thing that I look at when I wake up, and it's probably not the best habit in the world because there's a lot of negativity there.

Speaker A: But.

Speaker B: But it does help me kind of set myself up and understand what's happening in a day and how, how our brands can be seen through that lens. Knowing that we're, we're pushing content out. What does this mean for this brand or this brand? Or is this an opportunity for us to align with something that's happening, you know, in culture? Uh, those are just. That's just the thing that kind of wires my brain right before I step into, you know, a work environment. And yeah, again, it's probably not as, uh, healthy because it's hard to turn that off and just to kind of decompress. Um, but I love it. I really do. It does feed me in a lot of ways. So, yeah, productivity kind of indirectly definitely makes me productive. A useful tool.

Speaker A: A useful tool, let's say, but any

Speaker B: kind of, um, organizational tools, you know, I mean, I use, you know, we have, we're in a teams environment, so Microsoft, you know, tools. I try to, you know, maximize what's available to us. Just, just because those things can seamlessly help us share information. You know, as we're thinking of it, as we're capturing notes, you know, we, we can, you know, we can send those off and, uh, in a seamless way. So, you know, just trying to do what I can with the ecosystem that we work within. But, um, you know, generally, I, I, uh, I am kind of a note taker. So that's a, that's something that's kind of hard to break. I love my, I love my paper, but I'm trying to, to shift over to a digital format so that we can. So that I can share notes and then I can search, um, you know, keyword search and find things that, that I talked about last week that I need to call up really quickly. So, you know, that. That's very helpful versus a lot of paper.

Speaker A: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Uh, I had to kind of, uh, force myself to transition from pa I was a big, big, uh, note taker on paper. I loved it. Like the feeling of crossing something and just writing.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: So, so good. But for the same reasons as you mentioned, I just had to force myself to start. I had to hide my notebook, my paper notebook to just make myself, uh, you know, take, uh, notes, um, uh, digitally. You mentioned Twitter earlier and how, you know, following dozens of social media accounts is almost, you know, part of the job description. Do you have a favorite Twitter account or, you know, better said better asked, like, you know, the person behind what Twitter account would you like to meet?

Speaker B: I love that question and it changes every day. M. Right. And this one's a little bit of a silly answer, but I, um, love Room Rater. I would love to meet that person behind Room Rater. So this is, you know, an account that rates the backgrounds of, um, since we're all in a zoom environment, um, you know, people being interviewed on cable tv, they have, you know, the room set up and some of it is a total disaster and some of it is so well, art directed. They have a rating system for um, for these backgrounds now. It makes me very conscious of what my background looks like, but it's hilarious. It's just, it's just at Room Rater, um, and I, uh, think they've got a pretty good following, but it's snarky, really snarky. And um, you know, just, I just love the language. The way they use language to kind, um, of like, it's like they're judging, you know, some kind of a, I don't know, a design contest or something or uh, I don't know, a home tour. It's just like this is on point, you know, it's just, it's so fun and I love it. And I know it has nothing to do with my, with work, but it's just engaging content to me and it's very repeatable and it's just a, it's something that could live on forever. Uh, no one, it just never gets old. Um, I am a, you know, I follow a lot of meme accounts and that's on Instagram. And that's just because I need, I need that and I can, it's such a great way to express an idea or a thought or an emotion in one fell swoop. You can, you can communicate so many things, um, with that, uh, with that piece of content. So I can have entire conversations using GIFs and memes and uh, so those things on Instagram really, really feed me as well. And I know that isn't, um, related to work, but, um, but that's something I love to spend some time with just to kind of inject a little bit of humor in what we do. Because you have to have that, you've got to have a sense of humor, um, in this, in this business.

Speaker A: I love it. I think the Twitter handle, I think the Twitter handle is rate my Skype Room, if I'm not mistaken. But the name account is Room Rater. I had to, like, Google it a

Speaker B: little bit and find it.

Speaker A: It's rate my Skype room. So it's. It's from the Skype days.

Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah, right. Yep, I see it. I see it now. I'm just think of it as Room Raider, but yeah, check it out. It's a lot of fun.

Speaker A: I just took a look at it. Good. Tidy corner book setup, photos, family. 8 out of 10 I love is so funny. I'm gonna follow it and share it with, uh. I have a colleague here, uh, at Plannable that is, uh, very much into Twitter for, you know, for entertainment. So I think this is going to be a great Twitter account for him. Thank you for suggesting it. Um, okay, good. So moving on, um, I want to talk, you know, a little bit about, um, challenges and, uh, struggles, because, you know, talking about journeys, it's not always, um, it's not always happy, happy, joy, joy. You know, um, it's obviously a lot of growth and a lot of low points in our careers and a lot of struggles. And the first question that I have on this theme for you is, what was the habit or the skill that you struggled the most to develop in yourself?

Speaker B: Well, when I think about my journey, one thing that does come out is this. I think everybody who is in a leadership position has to transition from. It's like getting your head straight around what your value is and what, as you come up in the ranks, like, you're valued based on what you produce. M. Those tangible things. You know, I did this and I did this presentation and I did this, and I made this piece of content that got this kind of engagement or whatever it is. And as I trained, you know, it was probably about eight years ago as I was transitioning into leadership position, and I had to let go of that. You know, I had to. I had to let go of those things that. That I felt defined me and do and go into something. And go into an area that. That defined me by the success of the people that I lead. And that was really. That was very bumpy and, um, difficult for me. And it took someone, you know, a great leader in my own life and a mentor to help me understand and to make that transition and to. And to m. Say it's okay because now this is what's important to you now. Um, it's not this. This thing. You've got to let go of those things. And, um, when you do it well, you will be recognized and you will get energy from it and you will, um, you know, reap the rewards, uh, of it. And your team success is your success. And um, so that's, that's the philosophy that I've always taken. And my, I was in, um, I had a therapist for a while and she, she gave me a great piece of advice as well and I recommend therapy for anyone. Um, she said, yes, yes, amen. And she said when I was kind of going through this struggle in transitioning from kind of a producer to a leader, was, I'm a mom, I have uh, two kids. And she said, you know, I can tell you, you love being a mom and you're good at it, I can tell by what you're telling me. And she said, just lean in to that strength and that you care about people and you want to keep them safe. You also want them to grow and you want them to not be insulated or too protected. You're not a helicopter mom, I can tell that. So treat your team members as you would in some ways, not obviously, not in every way, but, um, as you would leverage your mothering instincts, um, to help your team members succeed and in whatever form that takes. Um, and I really, I was like, that is the weirdest thing I've ever heard. Like, of course I'm not going to be a mom to these people. But at the same time, you know, you're going to let, you're going to want them to take risks, you're going to want them to experience life and to take, take the hard stuff, but also to give them a, you know, confidence and be their cheerleader and to you let them make mistakes and to kind of be there to help them talk it through when they do make mistakes. Um, but to keep them essentially keep them safe, don't let them touch that hot grill or oven, um, and to warn them about those things. Um, but when they do make the mistakes that you're there and to help them learn from it anyway, that was great advice for me and I really took it to heart and it helped me make that, that transition into, to leadership and finding value in myself, in what I do. It's about the outputs of the team themselves. And the outputs, um, is really what's important to me. Uh, but it's hard, it's hard for people that are very task oriented and kind of type A, you know, to get into that world. But it was, it's a gradual thing, but just to know that it's okay, you know, you can let, but you can let it go and it's really about the success of your people is what defines you. So that was probably the most biggest challenge for me.

Speaker A: I'm wondering if this goes the other way around, if this, uh, you know, myself being in a leadership position, is this gonna make me better when I have kids?

Speaker B: Right, Yeah. I mean, not everyone has kids, so it's like this doesn't apply to everybody. But I think everyone has kind of that nurturing instinct and, and uh, you know, to some degree. So it's just like use it, you know, care about, you know, just people need to know that you care. And sometimes it may feel like, oh, this is too touchy feely for me, but I just don't, I don't think you can do enough of that. I really don't.

Speaker A: It's a lot about. I think it's a lot about kind of like listening but also being honest with them. Like, I'm thinking about my mom, you know, how straightforward she was with me. You know, she was never, like, she wasn't taking my side when I was being insane and unreasonable. Um, you know, like that kind of honesty, you know, being like super direct and being able to listen. I think, you know, it does sound odd in the beginning when you say it, but then like, if you really look at it closely, it makes so, so much sense. And I think I agree with you so much. Like, uh, even if we don't have, you know, we don't have kids, we can remember, you know, our own parents, you know, our, our mothers, our, you know, dads, and just, you know, lean into the type of nurturing that we've got and, you know, from them.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And yeah, I do hope it goes the other way around. I hope, you know that that's, you know, um, my training. Um, good. So I have one more question for you, uh, before we dive into the Rapids session, and it's a bit of a controversial one. Um, and I want to ask you, you know, what is that? You know, the marketing industry, especially social media, as you mentioned, you know, there's things that are changing every day, every single day. Um, and there's a lot of new trends, a lot of new buzzwords that are happening in the industry, new popular things and even social media networks almost every, every other week. So what is that, you know, trend or belief or popular thing and in marketing or in social media culture that is annoying you or that you disagree with?

Speaker B: Oh, gosh, so many, so many. Um, you know, the buzzwords just kill me. Um, and I, in just the, um, the use of Them, the abuse of them. Um, when I hear words like digital, I just wanna, I just go crazy. So I don't really have, I mean, as far as just a, um, trends. You know, I do take those things with a grain of salt. You know, when I see headlines like TV is dead or whatever, which I did in the old, you know, way back, it's just, it is to make those kinds of statements when streaming and episodic video is so popular, it just takes a different form. And so it's almost like the shock value. Right? People want to be controversial and so they do that through headlines that are like, I m. Don't know about that. There's a lot behind that. And I think that that's kind of going a little bit too far. And I just. The examples of that are really frustrate me because it's like if you, if you were in the industry and you understood the nuances of what you're, of what you're, um, what you're asserting in this headline and making people kind of lean, um, in one direction or have a, have an opinion or try to shape an opinion that really is, you know, pretty consequential in the industry. Um, that, that's a little bit annoying. But so things like that, like declaring the death of something is really. Ah, that could be true. It just takes a different form. It takes a digital form, it takes an interactive form. And you can point to so many different examples of that. Um, so that would be, you know, my answer. I can't think of really anything, Anything else.

Speaker A: This is a great one. This is a great one. This works. Okay.

Speaker B: Okay, good. And then, you know, then we can get into crypto and all that stuff.

Speaker A: But.

Speaker B: No, I'm kidding. I won't go there. Won't go there.

Speaker A: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, don't. But I love it.

Speaker B: Like, like, I love the fact that we have these like, new. I just love like new categories and new, you know, um, things that are difficult to wrap your head around as far as what, what is, what's backing this thing up, what is the true value, um, what's that tangible value and really thinking about that in debating it. And I love it. And I love the debates that I have with my team. They're all very, um, spirited and fun. Um, and everyone has a different opinion. Uh, and I welcome that. Uh, I just don't like those very declarative, like one side or the other on, on something. On the demise of something. Um, that, that, that's. Yeah, I don't like that. At all. There's always nuance.

Speaker A: There's always gray area that's not white and black. Uh, black and white. Yes, I can definitely relate to that. So, uh, Denise, I have, uh, a couple of quick, uh, rapid fire questions for you. And my first one is not trying to make you take sides, but what's your favorite social media network? It does seem like Twitter. Did I get it?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Did I get it?

Speaker B: It's Twitter. Closely followed by Instagram. Closely followed by Instagram, very closely. And TikTok is, you know, is my kind of my, My, uh, side, side gig.

Speaker A: Yeah, the guilty pleasure. Just.

Speaker B: It just depends. Yeah, it just depends on what mood I'm in and if I'm just kicking back, I want to be entertained. You know, TikTok's great, but. But the others, uh, really are kind of serve multi purpose.

Speaker A: Got it. Yeah. Um, what's, you know, the worst advice that you've ever received in your career?

Speaker B: Ooh, the worst advice. Wow. Um. Gosh, You know what? I can't even think of an answer. I'm so sorry. Um, no worries.

Speaker A: I mean, I think the fact, I think the fact that you can't think of, you know, you can't remember the worst advice that you've ever received, that that alone says something. Maybe you just had amazing people around you or you're not taking it to heart and like discarding it instantly.

Speaker B: Well, right. And I'll go a little bit, I guess, outside of, or a little bit more big picture on that when I guess it's more about my values. And if I am, uh, advised to do something that is counter to what I believe in my values, um, and sometimes that's difficult to do and to push back on, but when it feels weird in your gut when you're asked to do something or advise to do something that makes you prickly or makes you, you know, uh, you just don't feel right and you do have power and you have. Have a choice in the matter. Um, it's just kind of trust your. Trust your instincts, you know, because you know what your, you know, your values and you know what your boundaries are. And, um, I think people just need to kind of trust that and really push back on advice that might not feel right because I know a lot of people are, and I just, you know, can't think of a specific example right now. Um, but I know, I know I've gotten a lot of advice along the way. Um, and it's just trust your gut and your instinct to, um, you know, to challenge that Advice if it doesn't feel right to who you are. Because I think what works for one person won't work for another person. And, um. But I've gotten. So I think I'm just leaning into the great advice I've gotten along the way. And, uh, those people that have given it to me, they know who they are. And, um, they have really changed my life and my trajectory. And, uh. Um, you know, I'm kind of. They see it demonstrated things that they've told me, you know, every day, uh, in working with them and kind of how I've grown. So what I remember is the good advice. Um.

Speaker A: Yeah, that is great advice on worst advices.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What to do with worst advices.

Speaker B: And you know what? Tonight I'm gonna lay down about them and be like, oh, I forgot about that and that and that. And then I'll just go into a big, you know, spiral, downward spiral.

Speaker A: Please don't. Don't put that on my conscious. Okay, so my last question is, uh, if you wouldn't be doing what you're doing today, what else. What else would you do?

Speaker B: The thing I've always wanted to do since I was a kid was to have my own cooking show. And I'm not necessarily a good cook. I do okay. You know, I keep myself fed, but, um, to hound, like, have people chopping stuff and prepared in those neat little ramekins. And, like, I've got this really fancy kitchen, and I can just talk as I'm cooking. That is, like, that's a dream. And I used to watch those cooking shows on PBS and on the, um, Food Network, and that would just. That would be so much fun. And, um, I've gotten into gardening over Covid. And I actually have planted vegetables in my backyard and have discovered this new thing that I'm interested in that I never had the patience or, um, tenacity for. And, um, now I understand what it feels like to grow, to grow actual things that I can eat and I can enjoy and look at and to go out every day and to see how they progressed. And I think that really does kind of feed into being a leader and seeing people grow and experiencing their growth. And I can do this in a little. Little, you know, fun way on the side, you know, with. With, uh. With my strawberries and my, uh. You know, my peppers and all those things that, uh, that I watch and help grow every day. And. And, uh. So, yeah, maybe it's a. It's a competition between the cooking show and the gardening show, but I would love to do something like that.

Speaker A: I love it.

Speaker B: If I would have an audience, you know, they'd have to be very. Have a sense of humor, for sure. Put up with me.

Speaker A: I love it. The common thread is like growing and just like, uh, creating something because like food is also, you know, making something and like in a way knowing it, evolving it in a way to get from nothing to something. So I think it makes a lot of sense considering everything that we've talked today. Uh, I am validating what you want

Speaker B: to do in your alternate life, right?

Speaker A: You have never know. This is such an amazing conversation. Thank you so, so much for taking the time. I had such fun. Uh, really, really enjoyed it. So, uh, thank you.

Speaker B: Same here. Same here. Thank you so much for inviting me. I really, I really appreciate it and I love your podcast. I'm going to keep listening and I can't wait to see who you have on next.

Speaker A: Yes, yes. And for everyone else listening in, thank you for joining. I. I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I had fun. Subscribe to people of marketing on your favorite podcast app and catch you next time.