OK28: How to Scale Outbound From 5% to 46% With Human SDRs, No Standups, and an AI-Native Operating System - Jonathan Chemouny, GTM at ElevenLabs

Speaker A: If you don't know me, I'm Eric. I'm the founder of Outbound Kitchen. This is, um, an outbound advisory firm and also building a community for go to market leader so you can scale outbound. And today, uh, we have John from 11 Labs, uh, joining us because, uh, maybe you see that on LinkedIn and for me I see it every day. But on LinkedIn, you can see AI is replacing salespeople SDRs. Uh, outbound is dead. And what's interesting of having John today on uh, the live is to talk about an AI native company hiring SDRs. So we want to understand why and how they are doing it. John, if you want to start with

Speaker B: a quick intro, first of all, thank you so much Henrique, for having me today. Um, and hi for everybody joining us. So my name is John Cemoni. I lead the sales development team at 11 labs. So under proof that even AI top company, uh, we need to have humans to do, uh, to do, uh, outbound. Um, I'm sure you are familiar with 11 labs, but in case you are not so ElevenLabs, uh, deploy AI models. Um, we worked, um, with a creative platform and also with an agent platform. So if you want, for example to build an agent, an audio AI agent, 11 labs can definitely help you.

Speaker A: Uh, so we're going to talk about why, uh, you made the decision to hire SEOs when you joined. You didn't have any SEOs. We are going to define what's outbound for you, uh, how do you find and source your talent, uh, how do you use AI also, uh, for you and your team, what's next for your team, and then, uh, Q and M. So let's start with the decision. So when you joined actually elevenlabs, what was the state of elevenlabs and did you have any SDRs or you build a team?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. So when I joined 11, uh, labs a year ago, we had uh, two SDRs in Europe and they were doing a fantastic job. The thing is, we had a ton of inbound, and just because of capacity, it was very difficult for them to do outbound. So I would say that it was, um, 95% inbound at this time. And we can think it's great, but actually, uh, it's not so great if you work in sales development. You know that. Um, and my role and why I've been recruited was to one, build a team and two, shift this motion from inbound to outbound. So it was really my two, uh, main goals last year.

Speaker A: What's Outbound for you. I'm saying that because for me I have a definition. But I know some people consider outbound as just called outreach. So you contact an account that never heard of 11 apps and they consider it as outbound. Um, what's your definition?

Speaker B: You're right. We can have very different definition depending on the company. So of course when uh, there is absolutely zero contact with them and you're going after them, we'll define that as outbound. But also let's say that someone is um, using our product. So I would say plgmotion. If you engage with them, uh, then we will also come that as outbound.

Speaker A: I had those conversations a few times with CEOs, Ah. That disagree with the definition. But for me I think outbound is more being proactive. Uh, so if you have free tries and then you wait for the free trial to convert to a paid, uh, plan, for example, or contact decision maker, maybe this account won't cover it.

Speaker B: It's not really a topic. This. I think the question is how we can get more pipeline. At the end of the day, you know, this is what we want. So if it's outbound, depending on the different, wow, we don't care at the end of the day, we just want more pipeline.

Speaker A: So you have plg Also, I was doing some research online. You have like, uh, also a lot of um, leads from marketing. Also, um, what else? Uh, how do. What do you. What's the source?

Speaker B: We also have leads from, from partners. Um, yeah, I would say this is, I mean we can, we can, we can be uh, super granular. But I would say this is the big source of uh, traffic for us for uh, prospect.

Speaker A: Then, uh, now let's talk about the talent. Because, um, when I was listening um, to your webinar live session with Lemnist and also on Sastock, you are talking a lot about the talent you are looking for. So you are not, um, looking for um, SDRs with a previous experience in sales. So you're looking more for a finance background or could you let us know what's your. Um. Yeah. How do you. What do you have in mind when you're looking for talent and what's your process for hiring those talents?

Speaker B: What we're doing with elevenlant is very unique. I would say, um, the company grew super quickly. We are one of the fastest company at the moment in terms of growth. It's an European company and the way we do the things is very different. That's why if I would recruit someone with super, um, solid Background from let's say Salesforce. And I have a lot of respect for Salesforce but I'm not sure it would work today just because the pace of 11 labs and imagine, um, last year we were focusing on text to speech. Now we are focusing a lot, not only on text to speech but also on the agents. Uh, it's something that is growing super fast for us. So you need to have this um, agile mindset if you want to uh, survive at a level. That's why I try to avoid um, sales background for joining my team and also because what we're going to, how we are going to operate is very different. So just to give you some context, um, second thing is and might be interesting also for the people listening us, we recruit globally. Um, deeply think that the, the, the best person for the role can be anywhere in, in Europe. Me, I lead, I lead Europe. So totally fine if you're in Barcelona, uh, if you are in, in Berlin or Dublin, totally fine for us as long as you, you are great for, for this role. In terms of the profile, told you. Not the typical sales, uh, background I really like personally, uh, background from finance and, and VC finance. Usually you know, it's quite boring for them so they want to get some fun. So tech companies are great and also they are very analytical and what I can share with you and the audience is so far my top performers are coming from finance and vc. Um, something also interesting about the team and how we work. Just to also to tell you that it's not very common. We don't have any job titles. Um, if you're on LinkedIn, if you're looking for someone working at 11 lads, you will see in sales we're all GTM from the VP level to uh, very entry level, um, employee, um, well all GTM in sales, marketing. It will be growth and, and so on, which is in my opinion, uh, great. At least it works well if I can share my feedback. Um, in Today we're about 350 people. It works really well. Why? Because it help with the um, uh, the communication. You know, you don't have to think too much when you want to contact someone. Uh, you are not afraid to contact this svp, blah, blah, blah. You're not afraid about that. The second thing is you are not distracted about. Oh yes, I just want to be a uh, senior director or. No, you just want to do your job and this is it. We want to focus on our job, not the, you know, distraction like the job titles. So it helps a lot. And also something for people prospecting, when you sign gtm, usually your prospects don't really understand what is it. So they think that you are the general manager. Yes, and I think in terms of reply rate it helps a lot. Um, so just wanted to share with you, um, some context about the type of people that we recruit. Uh, but yeah, maybe you have more question about that.

Speaker A: I would love to know your hiring process because uh, you are talking about the background a lot. So are you looking for specific soft skills during the hiring process? How do you assess uh, the people on your hiring process?

Speaker B: Eric, it's just because it's you I'm going to share, um, my uh, interview process. Even on Glassdoor, you're not going to find it. So it's ah, very uh, exclusive for you. Um, first of all, it's super fast. The interview process at 11 Labs, it's not 10 rounds for two, three months. No, we can go in three weeks. Two weeks? Three weeks. You can get a job at 11 Labs is the first thing. Second thing, if you listen some podcasts, maybe you heard about the fact that uh, 11 labs, um, it's more easier to get to Harvard than 11 labs just from the numbers. Honestly, I don't know and the proof that it's possible and I'm not a genius, but yes, we really want to raise the bar, which is extremely important. Then when you apply, of course if you contact someone, it will help you, uh, for sure. But the thing is if you contact me, I receive, I don't know, 20, 30 people contacting me every day. So you have to be creative. It's outbound. Then you meet the uh, recruiter and after the recruiter it will be uh, to be a session with me. Then you have a session with uh, one of the uh, lead for let's say Western Europe for example, and then with one of the founder of the, of the company with me to reply to your question. Um, I will try to understand three things. One, if you are AI fluent. Two, if you know how to prospect not in the old way, meaning sending 1 million email and praying you know that. And three, I will um, try to get an idea about how you can be solid with the pressure. So what I do usually, um, I will ask you questions about you and I will ask you to apply in a limited amount of time, uh, this kind of thing. So introduce yourself in 90 seconds and just tell me something that is not in your resume, something you are really proud of. These kind of things usually. Um, then I'm going to ask you how you would pitch elevenlab to your Ah, friends and family in 20 seconds.

Speaker A: Always.

Speaker B: Um, and then there is a question that I like to ask at the end and all the credits to uh, David Eppel, uh, who worked at Notion in the past, who asked me one day this question which is um, if you would have to um, uh send a message to you three, four years ago, what would you tell you? Um and it's a question that I like to ask also to understand how they reflect on uh, their background and experience. So it's a good one. Um, usually after we um, before the interview I ask them to prepare a sequence for the role of sdr. And what I do, I organize a role play, less mutual play meaning that they are not aware about the role play and I'm not super interested about what they're going to say during the role play. It's unprepared so it's, it's fine. I'm more interested about how they're going to react. I play the, you know the, the tough person. Um, you know I start with, with the objection, how did you get my phone number? These kind of things. And just to measure how they are going to um, to reply, some of the candidates really struggling, others they can be super creative on the way they're going to apply. This is what I want to see. And after that we do just a quick um, um feedback session which is great because also I can uh, discuss with them and share with them some tips but also they can share with me some feedback. So it's always super interesting to do that. This is how I um, organize my interview.

Speaker A: You said a few interesting things so I'm going to unpack a few of them. But uh, the first one is AI fluency. How do you assess if someone is um, afluent?

Speaker B: I think 2026 when you, when you work in, in for any tech companies, if you don't choose um, Claude, if you don't choose, I don't know, lovable or if you're not familiar, you are missing something really you are missing something if you don't know how to automate your daily job. Yes, there is something wrong. So what I want to um, to really assess with um, the candidate is are they just using chatgpt like everybody or you know, as a super um, experience with cloud, cowork for example, these kind of things is what I want to understand because if not 11 labs we work in AI and so it's not really a best company for them.

Speaker A: If you ask them specific questions you say hey, how did you prep for this interview? Or uh, what AI model do you use? Or what's the question?

Speaker B: What I ask them usually M is um, I'm giving you all my secretary. I shouldn't do that. Um, I asked them what do they use uh, professionally outside ChatGPT. Because if I don't say that they're going to say oh yes, ChatGPT, of course we're all using ChatGPT. Uh, and I also ask them what do they use um, as AI tool personally. So for example it can be yes, I use the AI from WHOOP because I think it's super interesting or uh, I created a lovable website for my side uh business. It says what I want to hear. Um, something that I didn't mention also Alaric is all the people working at 11 labs, they were founders so they had their own business or they work uh, for very early stage startups. So I also really expect, and this is what I try to get when I interview them, someone who will be super autonomous, someone who um, will know how to drive business and pipeline and that something that we can double click on it. But it's also the way we operate as a team which is um, very different of maybe other companies.

Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense for the AI part because most of people that just use ChatGPT, it's I would say step one with AI. So um, I'm curious about the sequence that you send. Uh, we can talk about this specifically. Do you send like a prep kit, uh, so to, to say basically what they need to prep for the call or um, um, what do you have here?

Speaker B: They have full um, flexibility on this and just give them. Okay, just create a sequence and explain me why usually I received the sequence uh the day before. But you know that today with uh, Claude, with uh ChatGPT it's very easy to create a sequence and this is it. Most of the time I receive something, it's, it's, it's made with AI which is fine, don't get me wrong, I love that. But the thing is that's why I do the role play, the cold calling role play just to understand if it's purely AI and it didn't really work uh, on this or not. And it's interesting.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm seeing a few things that are interesting here also. Even though I said the cork roleplay, you don't say that up front. You want to see if they prep in some way. Because you said that if they just use AI to write the sequence, well you will see that during the Overplay, actually. Because if you are even though you prep the interview normally, you should be, uh, um, prepped a few things already.

Speaker B: Normally.

Speaker A: Yep. Ah, actually we have had one question from Brian in the chat, uh, and before I answer his question. So, uh, for those who are here, do you hire carriers, Yaz, or do you also hire uh, non traditional backgrounds? Ah, like 11 hubs. So I'm curious to know what you do. Uh, Brian, uh, he was asking about the progression ladder for SDRs, uh, at ah, 11 hubs. So did you work on the career path already? Um, for now it's uh. What's the career path?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. Hi, Brian from Ireland. Uh, I'm also in Dublin. So we started working on career paths. The goal is really to um, show progression. It's not because you don't have job title that you don't progress. Let's be clear on this. Um, so yes, we have something already and just on this point, um, we all know that. And it's one of the questions also when I interview is what are you going to do in the next 12 months? And most of them is, of course I want to become an ae. And when you think about it, it's crazy because the job of SDR in many companies is so boring, so boring that the only thing that they're dreaming day and night is to become an A. And honestly it's very annoying to think about that. Um, so I also think that the job, if we make the job more interesting, people will stop just counting the days to choose a promo. We'll be super focused on what they do. We'll really enjoy the game and will maybe spend a couple of years, uh, as sdr. So maybe there is something to think about. Um, you know, this job, I managed SDR a couple of years ago and you know, at this time it was okay, you have to read fanatical prospecting. And this is what you, what we do. Hey, this playbook, honestly, uh, it's overall. So I think that we have to change it a little bit and make the job more interesting and make them progress, uh, as sdr. And I'm sure we're going to discuss more about what is an SDR at 11 hours, what do they do. But it's also super important to make the job more interesting. Imagine sdr, the source big part of the pipeline is they're going to close. And uh, today we give this job to people who just hate the job. Which is crazy when you think about it. So I think we have something to improve with that.

Speaker A: No, yeah, I agree with you, um, on this specifically because the SDR most of the time is like a step in the ciscare and they want to, like you said, they want to go to the next step as soon as possible. So if you make the job in general, they could stay a year or two years in the role. And with no uh, wrong expectation for me specifically, I think at one company we did uh, something wrong with that. Um, with SDRs we were promising that in eight months they could uh, be uh, promoted to the payroll. Um, if the company is growing. Well, yeah, fine, you can deliver this promise. But then at some point if uh, the company stops growing, unfortunately the eight months, uh, it's not the reality anymore. Um, and like you said, I think uh, we should be more focused on improving the role more than just uh, promising something.

Speaker B: We all made this mistake, I mean also made this mistake a couple of years ago, 2026. There is something also to consider. We have to start saying okay, AE is the only way if you want to close deal. You can also work on the existing business and maybe you can work also for something totally different in the organization. It's also possible. So we should stop saying okay, it's sdr then a SMB, mid market enterprise and maybe management. No, you can do, you can do so many things. If you are good, you can do whatever you want. And for example, working in CS can be amazing. Can amazing.

Speaker A: Uh, we had an interesting question actually from uh, Stefan. He was asking, so you hire people with no sales experience. How do you enable them?

Speaker B: This is where it's interesting. Um, I recruit people who know how to survive, um, with Tech stack who as I said are AI fluent and uh, using Apollo, uh, or treat slam list. Uh, it's not rocket science. So they understand quickly. I want people who are going to learn super quickly. Um, and it's interesting because even someone from finance, uh, they know how to use the same tools. They know how to engage with um, prospects, they know how to um, have uh, a conversation with a C level. It works really well actually. So yes, we do some training on the tools but honestly not so much, not so much. Um, and it works well.

Speaker A: Now uh, the next question I had was um, so I'm going to give some context. Uh, so you had one of your colleague, uh, Carl Reiner, um, on the 20 VC podcast and he was talking about one specific metric that I found was interesting. So he was talking about the OT to quota ratio for account executives, uh, that at 11 a bit it's 20x. Uh, normally insurance companies, we're talking about 3x to 5x depending uh, on the stage of the company. So, uh, which 20x, if you compare to 5x, it's four times this. So ah, how is it impacting your team or how do you think about that for USDA too?

Speaker B: Yeah. So, um, I would recommend everybody to listen to the podcast of um, uh, Carles Rena on twin tbc, um, where he explained how we worked at Atilevellade and he mentioned this Eco Taz 20x OT mod blah, which um, I mean there is no magic. When you think about 11 hours if you know our numbers, there is no magic. A company is growing super fast. Um, and just because we are extremely productive. And it's not just the gtm, when you think about the legal team, they are amazing. Finance are amazing. Research are amazing. So the speed is an obsession at 11 labs. It's not, you know, um, it's probably why we're also one of the sponsor of uh, uh, the Formula one Audi Revolut, uh, just because we're obsessed about the speed and, and, and the productivity. So to, to your point, Ulric, yes, there is an impact also on my team because if they have to close 20x, we have to provide a really good pipeline and high volume of pipeline. So the thing is we, we have a quota. I'm not very interested about the quota. Um, I'm just interested about overachieving and, and so far we are really overachieving, um, a lot of with, with the team so obsessed about that. We are, you know, we, we, we never stop. We never stop. Which is, I remember in previous companies, you know, we had weeks, for example in August. August in, in Europe, if you're not familiar with Europe in August it can be slow in some market. I can't use that at 11 labs. It's never slow, never slow. Uh, maybe, maybe during Christmas and, and New Year's. Uh, it's, it's a bit slow, but

Speaker A: the rest, it's yeah, fast and actually, sorry I said OT is not ot, it's the base. So which is a bit, uh, it's uh, the base are based on the, it's on the base, not the ot.

Speaker B: It's OT normally.

Speaker A: It's ot. So for you right now, what's the SDR to AE ratio right now?

Speaker B: It depends, it depends on the different regions we try to get. Uh, one to two or three can uh, be very viable. But usually it's one to two and a half. I would say at the Moment.

Speaker A: I don't know if you can say it, but what's the source from EZRS? Is it the one. It's 46%.

Speaker B: Uh, at the moment we are at 46% outbound. So while growing the overall volume of SQLo, we are also um, agreeing the, the part of the outbound, the thing. And, and, and you know that we don't want to be um, to be dependent of the inbound. Inbound is dangerous. Um, you know that you don't have control of your destiny. You can have good months, you can have terrible months and also you don't select the companies you're going to work with. So we want to um, increase the average control value and for that outbound is the best way to do it. So at the Moment we're at 46% as we speak. Uh, the goal is to um, I think next month will be at 50% if we, if we continue this way. It's really tough. Increase the uh, outbound motion. At the same time, we have a strong opinion on the inbound. And I know it's one of the questions that I saw where we think that um, inbound, for some context we can automate it very well. And there is no need adding someone just to reply to someone in inbound.

Speaker A: You just mentioned something that's interesting that I've heard that from different uh, CROs, talking about outbound specifically and why you need outbound to scale. Um, because it's not like inbound or outbound. It's. They work together most of the time, but most of the time it's uh, CROs one, not really. Well outbound, they know they need outbound at some point and um, to scale because like you said, inbound, you don't control your destiny, you don't control who you are talking with. Uh, also you have um. Sometimes uh, they are going to change the algorithm, for example in Google Ads or they are going to change the algorithm on LinkedIn. So some months you can have great months, but then you need to, yeah, have something more predictable I would say. Uh, and outbound, once it's working, can be predictable.

Speaker B: Can be predictable. And also to be honest, it's a different part of the business. Uh, I think just going after some companies, building relationships and finding great opportunities. Yes, it's the best part of the business.

Speaker A: One question for AE specifically. So why did you. We talk about picking AZRs at the beginning of this but someone was asking why, uh, did you not move to a full cycle, uh, AES and have right now AES plus SDRs. Because I know some people on LinkedIn, so hey, you should have a full cycle AES. So what's your take on that?

Speaker B: AES are also doing a, uh, big part of um, outbound, uh, just to let you know. But the thing is, it's capacity at the moment. Just because of the capacity, it's impossible for them to close the deals. Something that is important to say, um, in AI, um, showing the value. I wouldn't say it's easy, but they understand quickly the value of the AI and in particular with a level labs. But then you have all the part about procurement and legal. Legal can be really uh, time consuming. And that's why it's very difficult also for the EE to be um, dealing with that and at the same time prospecting.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I know for this question, I know it depends really on the leadership because I know some companies, they um, uh, ban prospecting for AES and only SDRs can prospect. And then you have some companies, uh, they still incentivize the AE to prospect.

Speaker B: But yeah, we are all prospecting at ElevenLabs. Um, and it's everybody, I mean from the CEO to Asia, we are all prospecting. So it's fun.

Speaker A: When we were preparing this session, actually, uh, you mentioned something to me, uh, that I found interesting. So you worked at Intercom Analysis also before doing 11 labs. And uh, you needed to learn a few things in terms of uh, culture and management. Uh, could you share more about that?

Speaker B: Different time, different companies. Um, I joined intercom in 2018, so pre Covid. And uh, then in 2023 I went to Lattice, an HR software company. Post Covid. So very different mindsets. Um, at this time, just in terms of culture, post Covid, it was really employee centric. Now it has changed a little bit. I think it was probably too much at some time. Uh, now it's a bit different. So the culture uh, @11Labs is also quite unique. And I think it's everything, the people that we have, the way we work and what we're building is quite different. But um, today for example, or culture, if I would have to define, it's, it's really um, um, it's result driven. So can be sometimes very intense. It's not for everybody, just to be clear. It's not for everybody. Uh, it can be quite intense. We, we discuss about that also. Eric. It's, it's not a company where it's the996 and, and I have a, you know, I'm married, I have a Little girl. Um, it's we, you know we also have a normal life but it can be quite intense sometimes.

Speaker A: Just to Clarify, what's the 996 for? Uh, everyone. If you don't know what it is, it's working from 9am to 9pm uh from Monday to Saturday basically. Um, okay, something also I don't remember if we mentioned that but uh, also if your team is remote. So there is a few things that obviously the way you operate versus a company within Office M may be different but um, a few things that you mentioned is you had daily standups with your team in your previous companies and now you don't have that anymore. So could you share more about that?

Speaker B: It was very um, very organized in terms of meetings. So I had my stand up on the Monday onto Tuesday. So what I was leading is uh, I had pipeline reviews, I had forecasts on Wednesday, I had a team meeting on Thursday. On Friday I also had another meeting. I think it's super clear it's when you discuss, when you have internal discussion you don't discuss with ah, a prospect so you're missing something. So we try to remove everything in terms of mandatory meetings. We still have some meetings and don't get me wrong but we want to make that super. Um, we want to remove the friction of the internal meeting. Some companies and I hope if you are here you don't work for this kind of companies where you spend too much time in internal meetings. So we work a lot um, uh on Slack. So all the notes, all the forecasts, everything, it's on Slack. Uh I also have a lot of automation. Give you an example. With the weekly notes from my team, uh I created a website unlovable. They can select some options then they can start a conversation with an audio agent that I build of course with 11 labs where they're going to tell me more about their week. Based on that I will connect with Claude uh just to get a summary of everything and it will post automatically on Slack. So it's the kind of thing that we do. I also spend time with them. Uh so we have of course uh, one to one, um, I joined many calls with them and we meet also on site. So usually I like to do with each of them uh a roadshow. Uh I went for example to Switzerland with uh the SDR in charge of this market. We met many companies during the day. It's also a good way to spend time with them to provide some coaching. Um, so this is how we work.

Speaker A: Okay, so it sounds like if you Compare to your previous companies, you have a lot less uh, internal meetings. Then also you're spending time in person with the rep. So you mentioned one on ones. Uh, do you have like a weekly one on one or is it more like a biweekly?

Speaker B: Biweekly, biweekly. Um, and also something too hard is when I joined the company I was very surprised because in the past I used to um, spend a lot of time with each of the reps. So as I told you, um, at 11 labs, yeah, it's so autonomous. Uh, they travel so a lot. So as we speak, uh, the person in charge of southern Europe is somewhere in Madrid I think. I know that he has to go to Greece soon. So. Always traveling to meet, to meet some prospects. Um, and yes, I was a bit surprised at the beginning because this is not what you expect usually with the SDR organization.

Speaker A: Right after this part, uh, someone were asking what's the incentivized for Europe? Is it uh, pipeline, is it a, uh, sales qualified opportunity opportunities? Um, and what's the number? I think it was 20 sales qualifier opportunities per month.

Speaker B: It's 30 per month. Yeah. The thing also is we incentivized um, uh, outbound on this. The thing is because we are moving. It's an organization that is moving from inbound to outbound. As you understood. We also had to replicate that in the quota. Um, and we also have some incentive on what we're going to close one. So the goal is the job doesn't stop when there is uh, a meeting uh, with account executive. But when it's closed one and you will be surprised. But we spend also a lot of time with the prospect even when it's negotiation stage. For example, something that I didn't mention, Eric also just on this, the way we are going to qualify is not the typical uh, way in many companies. I'm not saying it's bad but we don't do that. Uh, many companies, you know, you get the band for example or we don't do that. Um, we are going to use for example, um, I'm a big fan of command of the message. So we say value based framework for example and just to get a strong pain point. So we do this discovery part. That's normally companies, you know, they do that at the A level. Uh, sometimes we'll demo depends on the, of the prospect of course. But sometimes we'll also share some demos so we are not afraid to jump on the product. Uh, being a product ninja is also uh, the key to be successful at 11 labs. And just by doing that also it helps because then when you are going to pass the opportunity to um, the ae, you are going to increase uh, the win rate and you are going to uh, improve also the sales cycle. Instead of just giving something that is. Oh yeah, I booked a meeting and just because budget authority, blah, blah blah, we don't do that.

Speaker A: So do you have like a framework uh, for this to say what's qualified or not qualified or. It's more like we have a stage one, stage two and they are.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, something pretty simple which is about um, um, you know, the pro. The project has to be in the next 12 months. You should discuss with the right person and they are a good fit for our enterprise motion. So in terms of minimum spend. But, but if you just do that, honestly it's going to be very difficult for the day to close the deal. So we like to go deeper. Um, and something I'm really proud of is um, the notes that we sent to the, to the sdr. I remember me in the past, uh, with the AES, I manage some of the opportunities. Honestly, it was a tweet, you know, it was two lines, good luck with that. We try to give them more. Um, so basically we follow in the notes, we follow medpick and this is what we share with the, with the account executive. Maybe, maybe we're not going to have everything and that's totally fine. But we try to give us as many information as possible.

Speaker A: For you specifically what do you measure on your maybe dashboard. I don't know if you check that every day, but what do you measure every day? Is it a pipeline, is it revenue?

Speaker B: Uh, both, I would say three things. Volume, um, of uh, opportunities that we create. Um, so sales qualified leads and then we have sales qualified opportunities when it's converted by the account executive. So this is the first thing. Second thing it will be uh, the dollar value and the third thing it will be um, uh, the source of the pipeline is inbound, outbound. It's more complex but you understand the point. This is basically the three main things that uh, I will really keep an eye all the time.

Speaker A: You already started to talk about that, so we can talk about that right now. And then we are going to talk about AI specifically and a few examples that you share already. But uh, what was interesting when we were preparing this, you mentioned that your team, uh, they can go to a city to see prospects in person and like you said earlier also about um, your SDR, they can demo uh 11 hubs, uh, which is interesting. Because most of the time companies, they see more the sdr. Like they stay in the office and then they just focus on cold calling, email and LinkedIn. So here it sounds like they go beyond that. So, um, um, yeah. How do you. Did they stop doing that at Elevenlabs or that's the first time you are doing that with a team. I'm curious to learn more.

Speaker B: First time? First time. I, um, deeply believe that if you don't go on site, if you don't discuss with your prospects, you don't learn anything. Uh, let's say that you focus on a vertical, let's say energy. If you haven't discussed with someone on site working on this, it's difficult to talk about it. So it's attending to events, really understanding, uh, how is it for you, for your prospects? One, you're more credible. Two, uh, you know what you are talking about, you understand the pain point. And three, you increase your readiness when you move to the next role because, you know, um, and back to what we discussed earlier, it's, it's crazy to give a pipeline responsibility to people who will never meet a prospect in, in real life. I think it's, it's, it's a bit weird in my, in my opinion. Um, also at 11 labs, it's, you know, we are, as I said, we are a European company, but we are uh, global actually. We have small hubs all around the world and it's very important for us to be close to our community, to share with them even you know, super small companies, entrepreneur. We, we, we, we give them a lot because we know that maybe tomorrow they can be a, uh, big customer. So we try to be close to our community where they are.

Speaker A: To focus on this specifically, earlier you are talking about Europe in the southern part of Europe. Uh, you are talking about this uh, person was in Madrid and then going to Greece. So uh, if I manage the iron team, uh, do I make decision based on we have like a conference or trade show that could be interesting, uh, to go. Uh, and then also in the area where like maybe 20 companies we want to meet in person or how do they think about uh, mapping this?

Speaker B: We operate like a startup within a bigger company and there is a lot of trust and ownership also. So if someone is saying me, yeah, I have to go there because I'm going to uh, come back with, I don't know, $1 million pipeline. Yeah, just do it. I trust you. So this is how we work. It sounds super simple, super basic, but this is how we work. And so Far we have really good results. Um, one example, crazy one, um, we had the President's Club in Punta Cana two weeks ago and one of my rep, he won the, the P Club. He told me I don't want to go there.

Speaker A: Why?

Speaker B: Why, why tell me. Hey, it's CCW in Berlin. It's a big event for me. I uh, don't want to miss that. Sure, yeah, don't want to miss that. He came back with, I don't know, 60, 70, uh, opportunities, incredible logos. Uh, so he's on track to get the best uh, volume of SQL with Everhart. So it's amazing.

Speaker A: But yes, when you say 66060 okay, it's insane. Then the other thing also you mentioned, it's the SDRs are also doing demos. So is it the first time or also at your company or like SDRs, ah, doing demos or what's the.

Speaker B: I think it's the first time because in the past and in many companies, AES for example, they're afraid to have uh, SDR just you know, working on this. They don't want some overlap. And I can understand but imagine in 2026 the buyers, they know exactly what they want. They went on ChatGPT, they started to benchmark, they know everything. They don't need to go to G2, they have everything from GPT. Right. The thing is when they meet you, they don't want to get the boring uh, process which is okay, you're going to discuss with residents and you're going to discuss with ae. AE is going to ask you probably the same question as they are and then if you're lucky, AE is going to tell you, hey, you know what, let's schedule a demo. Imagine. So boring. So the thing is when someone is excited, we are going to give them a demo. Not uh, the super deep demo where we're going to bring FD and so, but something just to hey, of course we're going to show you something just to make them even more excited. So this is what we do and then of course with the ease we'll continue the conversation and, and yes, just because in their requirements they need some specific integrations. We're going to work on this and show them that it's possible. But the first thing is why should we create friction if they want to get uh, access to the product? You already know that already. Some companies are automating, uh, some demo with amazing tools. So I think this is it. If they want to see it, let's do it.

Speaker A: Ah, I had One question um, about Thomas was asking how do you guys run demos? Uh, do you have like an instructor and how long. You mentioned that they do have a small demo for example for a short demo. But uh, what's the structure?

Speaker B: So we are extremely fortunate. ElevenLabs um, the platform is amazing. So very quickly you can show them the value of 11 labs. So we are going to adjust depending on what they want but just also to give you an idea when we prospect. So even before the demo, when we prospect we are going to demo explain when I'm going to send them a LinkedIn message, an audio note. I'm sure you're all doing that. Uh, we are going to use a clone of a Voice powered by 11Labs for example and the message will be hey Elric really wanted to invite you to a demo but actually this is a demo. The voice that you are listening is a clone of my voice recorded with 11 labs. Are you interested to know more? No, this kind of thing, it works really well. Uh, we do the same also with Video Avatar we do and what we want is really to make them experience the product by themselves super quickly. Um and then when it's just a pure demo yes we walk them through uh to the platform. Uh we have many uh pre made demo where we can show them and usually there is a Y effect.

Speaker A: No but because we are talking about AI. So you mentioned that you use AI in demos in outreach. Also um earlier you were talking about you build an app in Lovable for you specifically to get um the summary of the week uh of your team. So how uh do you use AI for you specifically um to um lead the team.

Speaker B: First of all I build um my own tools like the one I mentioned. We also have some um role um play with AI agents. So basically if you want to train on cold calling uh you can use uh some of the agents. It works very well. Would definitely recommend to, to do that. Um then in terms of AI just in terms of tools and then we can discuss also in terms of prospection. So we use a lot um Claude as I said cloud, cowork in particular we use a lot granular. Um we use a lot um um Lemnist also uh to clone the voice uh what I mentioned they're using, they're connected with 11amp so it's really good. And just in terms of process we develop an AI SDR for inbound qualification. The goal is really to provide a uh reply immediately when someone is contacting you uh being able to qualify them and to schedule a Meeting, uh, immediately. Something that is great also with this AISDR is it speaks your language. So if you have no idea how to speak German, Spanish or whatever, you can use AI sdr. It works really well. I started also using it in outbound. Uh, I know that there was a question about that, about, um, AI outbound, um, me. The way I use it is not. It's going to call you. Technically we know how to do that. It works really well. But I think it's not a great experience when you do that without context. It's a bit weird. So what I do usually is I engage with them and at some point I say, hey, you know what I would love to discuss with you? How about training my agents? And when we do that, usually it works pretty well. With this, um, aisdr, um, what we can do is we can create actions. So it's not just something that is going to qualify you. It works really well. But also you can schedule the meeting, you can send an email, you can do many things. And everything is connected with our salesforce, but also with our slack. So we are informed. Every time there is a conversation we get a summary. So it definitely help us.

Speaker A: I'm curious about the AI inbound, um, agent. Is it a chat or uh, how do you do that? Is it someone goes through your website and then you have like the chat pop up, uh, on the website?

Speaker B: It's not like that. You can start a conversation. So you are chat with our agent if you're interested. So it's a bit of auto promo, but we organize a, uh, webinar next week, uh, at elevenlabs to explain how we build the agent and something great, it's a workshop. So in 45 minutes you'll know exactly how to create an agent.

Speaker A: In all the AI use cases you just mentioned here, which one is uh, the most, not just interesting, but excites you the most?

Speaker B: The A is. Yeah, of course, Uh, I spend a lot of time on it. Uh, I think it's incredible to be honest. And you know, so far it's a thing where you can think okay. So I think it's good for nevernut. Many things that we do doesn't work, I mean, don't work. Uh, we tried many things, but aisdr, at the beginning when we launched it, I was, I don't know. And when we started to get the first conversations, uh, when people started to change language and when we started to get conversation in Spanish, in French, in German, wow, it really works. When people started to spend six minutes and giving lot of information. Um, when people started to um, uh, at the end get information in terms of the CSAT and we started to get really good feedback from this, I was okay. There is really something, I think something

Speaker A: uh, that people underestimate with uh, AI agents or AI, for example in coroutreach is the time it takes to iterate on um, the outputs uh, of this. Just to let you know, with one customer for example, who iterated like 40 times just to be okay with the output of the message we were sending on LinkedIn or email. And I know Snowflake, I don't know if you saw what they've been doing, but they use a lot AI to write uh, emails or LinkedIn messages. And uh, the guy who is in charge of the ops of the team said that it took 140 times to iterate with the result they are right now. So uh, this is I think a lot of iteration. But AI is great, but you need

Speaker B: a lot of iteration AI also and big fan of AI that can create a lot of distraction. So it's important also to balance the effort that you're going to do with the AI and the outcome because it can create a lot of distraction at some time.

Speaker A: I had questions um, that someone asked me on LinkedIn. So the first one is, uh, what do you think is the biggest mistake you made with scaling outbound, uh, at

Speaker B: 11F maybe by the nature of 11 labs. You can do many things with 11 labs. You can use it for dubbing, you can use it for voiceover, you can use it for customer support agent. Very easy to be everywhere and you know that when you're everywhere you're unaware. So I think one of the biggest mistakes was maybe not focusing more on limited number of ICPs.

Speaker A: And so you had like no limits and now you have like a specific SAP.

Speaker B: We try to be, to be more focused. We try to be more focused and we start to see the results. Uh, you know that um, when you are focused is where you get the results.

Speaker A: Another one was about cold calling specifically, uh, how do you optimize pickup rate or uh, the dialing habits in Europe,

Speaker B: depending on where you are, if you are in the US or if you are, uh, I don't know, in Asia, it's a bit different. So cold calling works. Definitely works better than in the past to be honest, in Europe. Um, but it's still difficult to get people on the phone when you have them usually. And I think we're very lucky with 11 labs. The brand is super strong at the moment. So there is interest when we can discuss with them. It's not a tough conversation, not uh, an easy. But it's not ah, a big drama. Um, on the other hand, something that we started to explore and we see good results is WhatsApp in Europe. So it's not for every region. So if you are uh, in Brazil or India, it's amazing. Uh, same in Middle East. If you're in the U.S. maybe not the best uh, solution. But in Europe, WhatsApp. And once again I was surprised. It was one of the experiments WhatsApp. I'm not sure people, they will be super happy with that. And actually uh, WhatsApp is my new inbox. So very surprising.

Speaker A: Yeah, I imagine like we mentioned, depends on the market. Uh, we had another question from Stefan actually. What's your uh, average sales cycle and conversion rate?

Speaker B: It depends a lot on uh, the segment. Just to give you some big ideas about that. Um, sales cycle, ah, can be 30 day, 45 days. We close the deal super quickly at 11 labs, which is interesting but and you know that enterprise can be super long. It can be nine months. So it depends conversion rate. Once again, it depends of the segment, it depends of the region. So I don't want to drop you a number, uh, just like this because it doesn't make sense.

Speaker A: Yeah, I imagine because obviously depending on segment, company, ah, size. So another one was uh, from Vamsee actually was asking about uh, the percentage of SDR and RG for example. Um, you are talking about SAP earlier. Do you have like a tiering system? Um, do they do 50% of their time on tier one accounts and then uh, 50% of the time on tier two and tier three accounts or how do they prioritize, um, that time?

Speaker B: I wish we are sophisticated like that, but we are not. So at the moment, remember our company is pretty new. Uh, it's what, three years old company. Uh, so we don't have this structure. We'll come there. We just introduced the territory, uh, model I think it was in H2 last year. So we'll go to the kind of organization. But at the moment if you work on energy, we don't think too much in terms of off tiering.

Speaker A: Is phone working better for you than email Fab?

Speaker B: I would say no. And I would say the best is LinkedIn by default is LinkedIn. Email warriors struggling with email like uh, everybody at the moment, uh, we continue to do email but and I can give you these tips is what I do usually when just inbound. Just inbound. When Someone is contacting me. I m will reply with an email but at the same time I will send a message on WhatsApp saying hey, just send you an email. Uh, just want to let you know in case maybe it's in your spam, uh, folder and most of the time oh yes, it was in the spam. So email is tough. LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the best, but LinkedIn, we have to be very careful on the way we do it. Thank you, Stefano.

Speaker A: Uh, how many companies need uh, to be reached out per week? Do they have specific metrics to hit every week or it's more um, result driven results.

Speaker B: Results. I'm not interested about that because if I start introduce that we'll go back to the spray and pray motion that I don't want to have. So saying that I expect also some, some, some results and I'm super interested to see what you are doing. But um, I don't have a strict KPI like you have to engage with this number of people per week and this number of emails and this number of calls. Yeah, I think it was very true, uh, a couple of years ago, but today I'm not sure.

Speaker A: Ah, Mike was asking about agentic SDRs. Ah, so it sounds like your inbound SDR. Actually it's more like an agentic agent. Yeah, Jordan was asking about for inbound. I've decided to objective SDRS on uh, error generated. Would you recommend this on um, outbound? And I think could be a long answer for this, but yeah, go ahead.

Speaker B: Depends a lot of your business. I would say it depends a lot. Uh, it depends. Sorry, I'm not replying, but it depends a lot of your business.

Speaker A: Yeah, for me, the way I'm thinking about it, uh, I can replay really quickly if uh, um, your sales cycle is below two weeks, you can incentivize on outbound, on revenue only. And you don't need to focus on meetings, uh, more than two weeks. I think you can do a mix of uh, 80% on pipeline or opportunities created. Um, but yeah, uh, because below two weeks Asia have more control on what they create. Um, actually Mike was following on the agent SDR. You mean for outbound SDRs calling.

Speaker B: Okay, so I'm reading the question of Mike. Very strong opinion. Uh, it's not elevenlabs opinion, but cold coding is difficult. It's super difficult. Me for example, I'm not the best in cold coding. It's quite difficult. The thing is, uh, even if a human is struggling, I'm not sure that uh, an agent uh, will do the best, honestly. So I'm not sure that we are there yet with some context as I said. For example, what I do me when I contact them and I add a link and I tell them, hey, uh, start a conversation with me, it can work, but just pure cold calling. Not totally sure what's there yet, but considering the progress with the models, the audio models, it's going to the right direction.

Speaker A: And so we are already at the end of the live session. So John, thanks so much, uh, for being uh, on the live with us today. What's uh, the best way to be in touch with her?

Speaker B: LinkedIn, definitely. So feel free to uh, connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, more than happy to, to discuss with you to continue the conversation.

Speaker A: Thanks so much Ken.

Speaker B: Thank you Rick. Thank you everybody.

Speaker A: Thanks.