The Circular Economy’s operating system w/ Hammoq's co-founders Sid Lunawat & Ty Blunt

Speaker A: Hey, Origin podcast listeners. Prashanth, here today we have the co founders of Hammock, Sid Linowith, uh, and Ty Blunt on the podcast to tell us a little bit about their backgrounds, their journey to starting Hammock, uh, what they're working on now, and the grand vision for the company that they have over the next several years. Origin first invested in hammock in early 2021, and we've supported the company through their rapid growth as well as an expansion of the products that they offer on their platform. Hope you enjoy listening.

Speaker B: Okay,

Speaker C: What's going on, man?

Speaker A: I am doing well. So, uh, Ty, you are in India, so good morning to you and Sid. I think you're in Arizona, so good evening. Uh, thanks for both of you. Thanks to both of you for doing this. I really appreciate it.

Speaker B: You know, thanks for taking time to talk to us. I appreciate it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, so, you know, just for. For, you know, folks who are, who are listening, why don't we start with introductions for both of you. So, Ty, why don't you start and just tell us a, uh, little bit about who you. Who you are, and, uh, maybe your background in reselling, um, and some of the stories that. That you have that I know you have about your reselling days.

Speaker C: Oh, you want some stories? Okay, I got you, man. Um, yeah, so my name is Ty Blunt, one of the co founders of Hammock. Um, my background is reselling. Uh, started reselling at the age of 14. Sold my first car, 1972 Mustang, this Olive green color. Um, and then started flipping everything and paid my college that way as well. Up to 18. Flipped, uh, kind of passively in terms of here, uh, or there. Kind of learned it from my pops. He started doing cars at a definite smaller scale, maybe one or two a year, um, when I was younger. So I kind of got the bug from him. Uh, 18, went to college and then went to Silicon Valley. Did, um, some work at GSV and GSV Labs, which is like an incubator and a venture fund. Um, came back, uh, after school. Um, they offered me a job. Uh, turned it down.

Speaker B: Sorry.

Speaker C: Um, if. Anyways, if anybody hears that, um, but turned it down, um, and came back and started. I'm like, okay, I need a job, right? Um, started reselling full time, going all at it. 2017. Kind, um, of got back into it because of the Gary Vee 2017 flip challenge. Um, and then started retailing full time. Did my first six figures. Started, um, April 23, 20. 2017. Did my first six. Six figures. That year. Um, then we did about a quarter the next year doing downsizing estates. Um, with downsizing estates, basically you take people that either passed or went from a big house to a small house, sold everything in between. So I really started touching everything from the tchotchkes all the way to gold jewelry, uh, rare art, supercars, all that jazz. Um, I'll give a cool story about that in a second. Probably after, um, ah, Sid gives an intro. But after that, did, um, you think ebay to Amazon Arbitrage? Um, made it up, uh, and built some software on top. Basically day trading hard good products between ebay and Amazon. Uh, we did 1.7 million my first 12 months doing that. Uh, and it was a great hustle, uh, for sure.

Speaker B: Got it.

Speaker A: Okay, Sid, do you want to give us a little bit about your background, uh, and then m. Maybe include why or how you linked up with Ty to start building Hammock and then also what Hammock is. You should tell us what that is.

Speaker B: Sure, yeah, we'll do. So my tie definitely started off like right away as entrepreneur. I came, I started off in a very different way. Uh, did my undergrad in engineering from Georgia Tech, then ended up joining, uh, General Electric. And then I was working a leadership program there and decided that, like, I wanted to get more into the business side of things, um, from a just a strictly like IT leadership program. Decided to go do my mba, uh, did my MBA at Duke and then tried, uh, doing a start of my own, uh, right after that and basically failed miserably at it. That was the first time I was doing something. Didn't really understand how to do things well. So I ended up joining the, uh, Boston Consulting Group with bcg. They have a digital venture program where they build out startups for their clients. So did that for about three years. Really enjoyed it. But then also got to learn a lot about how to build a startup, uh, and then left my job there, uh, and moved. Actually my wife and I moved out to Arizona from the Bay Area at that time. And basically here I decided to start Fresh Start a company called Datapeer, which focuses on the data annotation space for machine vision companies. So we help machine vision companies get their data annotation done so they can actually build out, uh, their machine vision product. As I was doing this, I got to learn a lot about machine vision, uh, and I was really looking to figure out like a product version, uh, of it, right? And I was looking to do, like, how do I build a product around machine vision rather than just be a supplier or servicer for machine vision. So as I was in Arizona talking to a lot of people, uh, Ty was a person I met through like friends. We were just hanging out and since he was running his own business, I was running my own business. We started getting to know each other, hang out all the time. And uh, one day Ty made a request to me. He's like, hey, can I get like a few of your people that do data annotation work for my E commerce work? And I was like, well we don't really do E commerce but it's worth the conversation. Let's see what happens. Uh, so I go to meet Ty and I thought I'm going to like a, you know like his house where he's got a bunch of stuff that he's posting on ebay end, uh up at a big warehouse. Uh, it's like, I think like a, I don't know how, I think it was like 7,000 square foot warehouse and it's literally got like 30 people typing away and trying to sell stuff online. And I was like, oh wow, this is super interesting. And what's crazy was they were just looking at a product and synthesizing information from by looking at something which is really what machine vision is built for. Uh, and at that time Ty and I started talking about like, hey, what could we do in terms of building something that is a product based company focused on uh, machine vision and really change an industry. Right. The goal is that like machine vision is just a starting point, but the goal is to really change an industry. So we started diving into this a lot more and started looking at all the pain points that our customers have and realize that like this is an up and coming industry. There is basically it's been, you know, ebay has been the big player for the longest time, but people just really don't look at this as the main source of like getting clothing. And what's really changing in the industry now is that people are starting to look at like resell or used goods or secondhand goods as the main way that they purchase. And so that's like. So we saw a growing market, we saw a lot of pain points for how people are trying to sell stuff. And it really reminded us of like the early days of E commerce where everything was manual and there was nothing available. So that's where you uh, know I, Ty and I basically my, my existing business, my wife took it over, Ty shut down his existing business and then we basically joined forces to start building hammock. Uh, and that was about what, a year and a half ago now. Got it.

Speaker A: So tell us in the last year and a half then either one of you or both, uh, what you've built in hammock, how you're helping your customers. M. And then uh, maybe what the next year or a couple of years is going to hold for the company.

Speaker C: Sure.

Speaker B: Ty, you want to take a first step and I can piggyback.

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. Um, our goal is to do two things. One, uh, increase the throughput, um, of getting products online. Uh, if you look at the industry in general, uh, you look at the physical world and then you look at the online world.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: We're seeing it even more in the metaverse kind of stuff. Um, but there's those two different differentiators. To get the product online you have to input all this data. Right. That's kind of the main goal of what we try to do at Handmake is try to increase that, that throughput. If you can solve the throughput issue, you can solve um, the whole industry, um, you become then the powerhouse. Um, second, we're trying to increase the sell through rate. So how fast item by posting on multiple locations. Right. And kind of managing the inventory on the back end. So those kind of the two things we're focusing on um, as a time being.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you know I think for us it's basically it's coming down to the throughput piece that Ty's talking about is just what's interesting is like there's just so much inventory out there. Whether like there's thrift stores, our resellers, they buy stuff from like you know, bigger resellers or liquidators. And even when you start looking at like retail, there's just so much inventory that sits there that's not new anymore. Right. The tags have been cut off. It's something happening with it. And for us it's just how do we move that faster and how do we get that online? Uh, and currently if you look at how it's done, it's just manual labor. Um, and you have to have a lot of labor to do it. And that is a big problem I think we're trying to solve. And the way we approached it was like hey, let's tackle the smallest uh, type of customer first. But the market is actually much. It's probably the biggest market but just for customer size or smaller is resellers. Right. People like that are like you and me, they're like maybe hey, I'm going to go start sell stuff online and we're tackling that market first. And now as we're growing, we're also starting to see other markets that are coming to us organically and we're able to tackle them as well because they all have the same problem, which is how do I get my stuff online?

Speaker A: Yeah. And I just, I want to pause there for a second. Um, you know, I don't think people or most people have a great idea, uh, of the typical reseller, you know, the individual reseller that might be doing it, uh, you know, from their garage or other house. Right. Or apartment. Can you just, you know, help us get a sense for who these people are and then how many of them you think there are, you know, in the US or globally? Because I think, I think that's something that's lost on most people, which is how large actually this industry is and kind of how many people rely on the income that they can generate from, you know, selling and arbitrage.

Speaker B: Uh, I'll take that one. There's a great use case. We have, uh, we have a customer. He runs a, uh, uh, he runs a business where like he has, you know, he goes and kills cockroaches at like restaurants, right. His whole business is like, how do I, like, uh, is, is, you know, his, that was his business, like making sure restaurants are clean, free of insects, free of bugs, right. And uh, he was selling on the side and he was just like, hey, I want to sell stuff on the side. And to make some extra income. We started working, working with them about eight months ago now. And uh, you know, quick background. The guy's got like eight kids, uh, and with the same one wife and the couple has eight kids, right. And you know, so he's trying to like some of them growing up now, but he still got like four at home. So he's trying to figure out how to like actually go beyond his day to day living. And he started doing reselling because that's what he heard about on YouTube. He started working with us and you know, basically now he's quit his full time job and it's just doing reselling full time. And last month he made in revenue, I think about like $40,000, which is the first time he's like, I've never seen that much money in my life. Right. And so he made $40,000 first time last month. Right. And you know, that is the profile of the customer. It's people that are like, hey, they start off usually like, oh, this is interesting, I want to start making some money. Um, and you know, if they have tools available to them. They can go from actually being like in a small, small way of doing it, almost like a hobby, to actually making a full time business. And so what we see some people come in, they're like, hey, I just want to do a full time, I'm going to just, you know, do the, do a lot of labor on it and get it done. And those are the ones we can help optimize and help them grow really fast. And at the same time there's other ones that are like, hey, like I want to try to figure out how to make an extra income, but with the tools available to them that we bring to them and you know, to specifically dive down. What we do is we help our customers find product, we help them finance the purchase of the product, uh, then we help them list the products online. And then we also, uh, at the moment are working on ways for them to actually optimize on their shipping, uh, and getting it out in fulfillment of getting it out to the buyer. And so when we help them with the end to end suite of these products, what happens is they're pretty much automated in how they do a business and they can go and grow much faster than they were able to do before. Got it.

Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I remember either, I think I talk to that person, you know, when we, when we were looking to invest or somebody similar, a couple of folks similar. And my eyes were open for sure on um, this universe that exists that I didn't have a sense for how large it was. Uh, I think before that, I think

Speaker B: that's one thing I forgot to answer. So what we've done is so obviously the market is very large in terms of like just in the US alone, there's millions of customers. What we look at is like how big are the types of customers that are work with us. And typically we say like when we look at it, there's some nuances we have in there. Like they have to be doing it full time, they have to have a certain amount of revenue coming in and then they make, they're a good fit for us. Right. And we estimate that market to be about 1.6 million people in just the US alone.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's a crazy number. But I think you're right and we looked into that as well. So now let me ask you a uh, slightly different question. But, but similar is, you know, why is now the right time to build the technology platform that you and Ty are building? Right. Like secondhand, you know, resale you know, ebay, like that's been around for a while, right? That's not new. Um, but why do you think that now, and you mentioned this a little bit in your intro, Sid. Why do you think now is the right time to take advantage of the trends and the tailwinds here?

Speaker B: Oh, you know, I'll give you two, two specifics there, right? So one, it's just there's a lot more sites than ebay coming out there. Uh, ebay used to be the only one that did secondhand. There's like tons of sites out there now one's popping up almost every other month or so. There's new sites focused on different verticals. So as a reseller, it's much harder in terms of like, you know, it's, it's better if you have a vertical site because you can sell more, but it's also harder because now you have to list on multiple sites. So first of all, there's a lot of proliferation of this. And second, and uh, this is where I think Ty should chime in is like, people like Ty, like, you know, he was making $1.7 million of revenue on ebay. And I mean, just imagine that. That's a crazy size business.

Speaker A: I'm surprised you were able to get Ty to quit that. Ah. And come join you.

Speaker B: He wanted to do something bigger. I mean, for us, Ty and myself, it's about how do we build something that's changing the industry. Uh, you know, I think my previous business was fairly successful as well. But at the end of the day, Right. Uh, the reason Ty and I joined forces was because how do we build something that's changing the industry? Uh, we could always have a good sized business, but at the end of the day, how do we change the industry and become the company that's looked upon as a game changer. Right. Um, Ty, you want to talk real quick about Gen Z and basically the generation now that's looking at reselling as the way to make money and then also how they price this product.

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. And I'll touch on the me quitting the 1.5, the $1.7 million company beforehand, like Sid touched on it pretty well. Right. It's like, um, uh, if, like I talk about a lot but sit on a place as well. We're both pretty low, uh, key in terms of how we live in our expenses. I live in a $700 apartment have for the last three years. I lived in a warehouse before that.

Speaker B: Like, I don't really care about money.

Speaker C: Like, she Said we're trying to, we're trying to change the, trying to change the fricking world, right? That's um, what we're trying to shoot for as much as possible. Um, but in terms of the Gen Z kind of reselling, so people don't understand. Reselling has been happening since the dawn of time, right? It's the only business model that has been happening consistently since the beginning of people. Um, there's probably swordsmiths still, but not a huge industry. But people used to resell swords, right? People used to resell clothing, people used to resell, um, ah, any sort of tool material, anything they've ever made has been resold, right? When somebody makes it one time you put all this labor and effort into it, um, which gets uh, that premium cost and um, then it gets sold for a discount sometimes even under the actual material value, which is insane. You don't see that very often. Um, and that's why like the Gen Z and millennials are starting to really dive into it. If you look at like Thredup, they're saying the resale industry is gonna be like 75 billion just in US clothing market alone, um, by 2025. It's increasing so fast with the whole green, the whole green push. And we all know the world's changing in terms of it's getting warmer. We need to be more proactive. Um, you kind of have that good feeling and it does increase the actual market. Um, and the Gen Z especially are the people that are continuously pushing that forward and they're going to do it even more. They're probably the largest, I would say purchasers right now, but they're the largest influence on um, the reselling game. You see, almost all of them are wearing secondhand clothes that the TikTok, um, the TikTok influencers are wearing secondhand clothes. Um, it's getting very interesting of how much volume that they are pumping out not just in terms of buying, but in terms of content around used, um, clothing and used items just in general.

Speaker A: Makes sense.

Speaker B: One thing I'll add on the green side is uh, it's actually. I'll ask you a question Prashant, like on average, how much water do you think it takes to produce a single T shirt?

Speaker A: Uh, I do not have a good answer for this, but uh, given that you're asking it in that way, I'm gonna assume a lot more gallons than I should. I, I should think so. Maybe 20 gallons.

Speaker B: Oh dude, 2,700 liters to produce cotton, uh, to produce a con Needed for a single t shirt. That's 2,700 liters. That's insane, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So, I mean, that's the good part, right? Every time we sell something through our, you know, every time we sell ourselves something through our software, someone's buying it. And you're potentially preventing a new shirt from being manufactured or new jeans. You're saving, you know, close to 3,000 liters on it. Um, and. Which is insane. And this is something I didn't know until I got into this with time.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, makes sense. So Sid, you talked, you know, about that, ah, individual reseller, you know, who is. Who is running a pest control business by day and reselling at night. You know, how is that. Is that kind of the ideal customer for you guys? Or do you have other customer profiles in mind as you build your business?

Speaker B: So we're really dwindling down to three types of customers now. The reason I bring that up is that customer, um, is what happens is somebody like him that's doing part time and they're like, slowly becoming full time. That's just how we impact people's lives. Which is, which is very awesome that like, now he can do something that he really enjoys versus, like, pest control. Um, but at the end of the day, like, it's the ideal profile for us is somebody that's really focused on it full time. And so when we look at that 1.6 million customers, potential, uh, customers, we're looking at somebody that's like, already like, focused on like, hey, I want to make this, um, a good part of my income, if not all my income. Right. And that's the type of customer we prefer to be our ideal customer. Um, outside that, we're focusing a lot on the thrift side. Uh, thrift slash liquidation. We'll just call it that. Like, it's just, it's just both of these, like, you know, very similar type customers. These have a lot of products sitting around. Either they got it through donation or they got it from, ah, some, you know, return product from a retailer. They just have this sitting around. And so for us, that's the other focus coming in now, um, is, you know, how do we go after, uh, like the larger B2B style customers, uh, that already have a lot of product. And then, then there's the smaller size customers and the need is exactly the same. Right. How do you like, get this product online? How do you get it shipped out for like, low fees? And then how do you actually, uh, and then for our smaller customers, the additional is how do you source it? That's where we can become a gap or bridge. We can bridge the gap of hey, here's product here and then you guys can get it here.

Speaker A: Makes sense. Um, let me ask you both a, uh, question about, you know, what keeps you both up at night? What do you guys worry about, you know, what do you guys talk about in your late night calls? Uh, that, that are risks for the business?

Speaker B: Ty, want to talk about first?

Speaker C: I have answered too risk, uh, for the business. Um, I hope the market crashes, to be honest. Um, please, please, please crash and just take out a lot of cash as then I can buy up everything for dirt cheap. Um, I'm actually hoping for that to happen. It, uh, becomes very good for resellers. Uh, in terms of the business, I'm not too worried, to be honest. Um, I believe we have what we need. Uh, and we're moving pretty quick. Uh, for me it's like just concentration. Can we keep concentration on growth and try to move the needle as fast as possible as if we are trying to change the world? Um, uh, speed is definitely something that we need to be focused on. Yeah.

Speaker B: I think what keeps me up at night is just like, how do you change the world and not just become another company in the game? Right. There's a lot of reselling companies that are coming out and that to me keeps me up at night. How do we really go not just become like a 100 million, $200 million company. How do we really become the next game changer? That's what keeps me up at it. Right. That's like what we think about is like, okay, you can go tackle this, lever the market and you can Capture it, become $100 million company. By all means, it's a very successful company. But how do you become the one that's like the next big game changer? Right. Everyone's talking about. So that's what keeps me up at night. And then I think the other piece that, you know, uh, I think Ty mentioned in there is just, you know, that also gives us a lot of different ideas and so we have to make sure we keep focus. Um, and so that's probably where Ty and I spent the most time is like, this is a game changing, you know, and it could be small pieces, like, you know, there's features. We're launching. That feature is very important. Or is it not as important? Is it going to be a game changer or is it just going to be something that is taking focus away because it's shiny?

Speaker A: Yeah. That makes Sense. Um, I'm glad to hear that you guys are both trying to build something big. I'm not so excited about Ty wanting the entire market to crash. Uh, because while he can buy things for cheap, I think. I think a lot of the rest of us will feel some pain.

Speaker B: Uh, here's. You don't talk about that too, right? This is. This shows you dynamics of our company. Right. It's in a good market. It's great because people want to keep buying stuff, right? People buy a lot of new stuff even, and they buy a lot of new stuff. Right? But if the market crashes, people will buy a lot of, like, used stuff even more. And so they're not going to Amazon as much. They're coming a lot more to the used market. So, you know, for us, that's super exciting. And honestly, just being able to help our customers source becomes a lot cheaper too. And this is if the market crashes, yes, my 401k will tank. But, uh, you know, we'll make a lot of money in hammock.

Speaker A: That's good. I like that you're both countercyclical and cyclical, so you're fine. Um, uh, what's the craziest story that you've been a part of or heard about or helped facilitate for a customer at Ham? Again, Ty, I know your story might be an individual one, which is fine. Uh, but I'm just curious if there's anything else that I don't know about that's kind of a crazy story you guys know about with the reseller.

Speaker B: I don't, man. We m. Met this guy named Prashant in, uh, Origin Ventures. I'm just kidding. You know, let me. Let me think on that.

Speaker C: Second.

Speaker B: Ty, do you have a crazy story you want to go through first?

Speaker C: Yeah, I can go through, um, the Geneva story. That. That's definitely. That's definitely one of the more unique stories, uh, in terms of reselling game. I don't know if anybody else has done this before. So, um. Uh, we kind of. We kind of, uh. I think I might have scared some of the GPS at, uh, Origin when

Speaker B: I kind of said this at our meeting.

Speaker C: But, um, so kind of fun backstory. When I was doing downsizing estates, um, there's this one client that bought millions and millions of dollars worth of artwork in the 80s. Um, in the. There wasn't any, like, documentation. It was very, very seldom that you get great occupation unless you sold it through one of the big parties. Christie's, um, or Sotheby's, uh, or whatever.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: So this piece of artwork that needs. Multiple piece artwork that all need to be authenticated. Did, uh, a lot of them, uh, they went all around the world to Florida, to Paris, to Italy, uh, all, ah, you can name it, right? There's this one piece, Modigliani. Um, the high Modigliani is the third highest grossing piece of artwork sold for I think $300 million. Obviously the one I had was a lot smaller. It was, um, it was a pastel on paper. But I need it authenticated. And there's only one place in the world to get this thing authenticated at and it was Geneva, Switzerland. If, um, you don't know, Geneva actually has one of the largest free ports. It holds, they say it holds more than a billion dollars worth of art, um, gold, uh, other, other raw materials and a lot of wine as well. So what a Freeport is, it's a centralized location, uh, in a country, um, that does not have any taxes. If you look at VAT taxes, import and export taxes, a lot of the rich hold their artwork, hold their gold, hold precious items in these free ports. So I took this, uh, piece of artwork, it's Modigliani. And, um, flew first class, obviously, uh, at the client's expense, which was nice. Um, to Geneva, Switzerland. I get there and there is a. He goes, okay, go to the duty free shop and ask for the Freeport. Okay, sounds good. Um, in the duty free shop in Geneva, if anybody goes to Geneva, check this out. It's still there. It should still be there. Um, behind like the, uh, in the duty free shop, behind the count, like the counter for the cash register, there is a little trap door that goes down behind, um, the airport. You go to like, a secondary security area in the Geneva airport. So I go, I need to go to the Freeport. She goes, okay, sounds good. Lifts up this trap door. I'm like, oh, my God, what is this going on? Go down there and I meet this guy. He speaks no English at all. He goes, ty. I go, yeah. He goes, yeah. He goes, give it to me. I'm like, oh, God. Uh, so given, given the Modigliani, we signed some paperwork, we jump in this black car. Definitely was bulletproof. Um, really unique though. Jump in this black car and, um, start driving down to this Freeport. Uh, get to the Freeport. There's like, um, a massive amount of, like, barbed wiring. It's like super high tech security everywhere. Go in there, signs of paperwork, show my passport, do a bunch of like, legal work, um, and then jump in this Freeport. You go inside this Freeport, meet this guy. Um, his name's Mark. I can actually find his last name on my WhatsApp as well. Um, that does all the Modigliani stuff. He goes, oh, check this out. We go to the lab, um, and we start going through these doors, and there's just pallet racks and pallet racks of gold on these, like, uh, inside this Freeport. Insane stuff. But, um, yeah, go to Mark. We. I hang out in Geneva for a week, uh, maybe a week and a half. Um, and we do some, like, lab testing, carbon dating, um, pigment testing, all that jazz. And the, uh, artwork actually comes back real, and we end up selling the piece of artwork. So it was a unique, ah, reselling story that I don't think anybody else has definitely, uh, had.

Speaker A: Yeah, you guys should start doing multi million dollar pieces of artwork on Hammock. That'd be exciting.

Speaker C: Oh, 100%.

Speaker B: Take a few percentage points of that, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: Uh, I made up for havoc itself. I don't have any, like, crazy story like that, but we'll tell you some interesting things. People try to have us, like, so, you know, the way we work is, like, people send us an image. Through that image, we identify what the product is, and then we get it listed online. Right. Um, so people come with a lot of crazy stuff all the time. The weirdest one we got was somebody trying to sell hair. And it wasn't like, you know, wigs or anything. It was just, like, clumps of hair that they're trying to sell. And it was just, like, weird because, like, I didn't even know there's a market for that. But basically, if you have clumps of hair, you can sell online on a marketplace,

Speaker A: uh, that's weird. Uh, but I can't say that I'm surprised because there's all kinds of weird things that people sell on the Internet.

Speaker B: So we were definitely not a good fit for that particular market, but so we turned them down. That was one of the weirdest ones that we got.

Speaker A: That's funny. Well, look, I want to wrap with just maybe one or two questions. Uh, the first is, as you guys kind of continue building, uh, who are you looking to partner with? And then, uh, as you consider raising more capital, more equity capital, what kind of investors are you guys looking for?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, partnership wise. Uh, go ahead, Ty. What'd you say?

Speaker C: Andreessen Harwood's.

Speaker B: Come on.

Speaker C: Uh, next round, they're gonna be coming in big, Trust me.

Speaker B: So, you know, I think it's two Ty's point. Right. We're looking for I think ideally multi stage firms, um, specifically if they have experience with E commerce. Right. Because as we look to grow we have specific needs. Um, and having investors have had some E commerce experience would definitely be helpful for us. Uh, and in terms of partnerships, we're already talking to a bunch of um, existing e commerce players about partnering with them, helping them, powering them through Hammock. Um, those are ones we're really starting to talk to and try to figure out is that a way we can change, change uh, the game faster through partnerships? Um, and so probably I would say like that's the biggest wave. We're looking at partnerships outside that there's always existing providers of uh, items out there such as the goodwills of the world that. Not that we're looking to partner with as well. How do you help them change their business? Um, but if I had to pick one, I think it's the E commerce companies already out there that we're looking to partner with.

Speaker A: Makes sense. Uh, anything else you guys want to share, uh, with listeners before we wrap up?

Speaker B: No, I think this has been good. I mean it's been an exciting journey. We've got to learn a lot so far along the way, uh, we're constantly revising how we're doing things. And the good thing is we're now starting to get to a point we are starting to see uh, repeatable success which is really where we want to be. And so this year the hope is that we can execute on that repeatable success we've seen so far, uh, and get our company to the next level.

Speaker A: Makes sense. I know you guys are hiring aggressively so if anybody's listening is either looking for a role at a company, uh, like Hammock, or knows somebody that is, you know, you, you should feel free to reach out or check out the jobs page.

Speaker C: By use?

Speaker B: Yeah, by use. Yes.

Speaker A: Um, well, well thanks. Thanks to you both Sid and Ty. Ty know it's early over there in India so I appreciate you hopping on and telling your story and, and what you guys are trying to build. I think the listeners will really appreciate hearing from you both.

Speaker B: Thanks. Thanks for your time Prashant. Awesome. Uh, thank mhm.

Speaker C: You.