Ep. 023: From Data Centers to Decision-Making - Tech Governance in Higher Education | w/ Special Guest Adam Caylor of Ottawa University

You're listening to another episode of Open Source CXO, the podcast designed to share insights on how to excel in your business using technology, regardless of the industry. Host Robert Kehoe is a self-taught software developer who has grown to the role of CEO. Renowned for his collaborations with organizations such as Stanford University, Nelnet, and Louis Vuitton, he continually seeks new challenges to conquer in the world of tech. Joining him is Don Blackburn, a veteran COO with over 25 years of experience in cultivating diverse relationships and driving innovation in various technical projects.

Each week, they'll be sitting down with some of the nation's foremost technology leaders to develop an open source playbook, drawing from their firsthand experiences in the field. Let's talk some tech. Today we're with Adam Kaler, who is CTO at Ottawa University here in the Kansas City area, I guess. Little bit outside the Kansas City area, but welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me here and the opportunity today. No problem. Looking forward to this conversation because I think I mentioned to you before that we haven't really had anybody from the university setting or nonprofit setting, which I guess Ottawa is a nonprofit.

But I thought I'd just kind of give you the floor to kind of speak a little bit about Ottawa for those that aren't familiar and what that looks like from an IT perspective. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, my name is Adam Kaler.

I am CTO at OU. I've been, actually I just passed my eight years. So the first of August was my eight year work anniversary. So yeah, so we do have our original campus, which I'm at in Ottawa, Kansas, right down the road on I-35.

We also have three other campus locations. So we have one up here in the metro area. So we're actually moving our Overland Park campus to Asperia, which used to be the Sprint World headquarters. Oh, yeah.

Oh, very nice. So we're going through that. That's been a pretty fun process. I've done a number of construction type projects being at OU.

I'll probably get into all that stuff at some point. So we're moving there. We also have a campus outside of Milwaukee. I was just there a couple of weeks ago.

No kidding. Yeah. And then one of the biggest projects I was a part of is launching our Arizona residential campus. So we are in surprise.

We're actually right down the road from where the rules has spring training. So that's cool. So you get to have you got to go out there. I have.

And those are blasts. I mean, there's there's nothing like seeing a game of decay, right? I mean, it's so much fun. But that that feels like a little league field, like everybody's right on top of it.

Like you're all right there. So it's super fun. And of course, being out there in February is about the best weather you can imagine. So so much better than at home.

So yeah, so I've been there just about eight years. I'm primarily over the hardware side of IT. I started there as data center manager. So work my way up and took over the help desk and kind of front end support.

So yeah, doing all those things that I worked. I work I work in parallel to our software team. They're kind of separate from the hardware side of IT and then also our see what they call it academic tech. So basically our learning management system.

So for students, they kind of manage all that and a lot of our you guys built all that custom. Is that why you have like a software team? You guys built all the custom or that was actually my question. Sure.

You know, what does the makeup of the team look like? Software developers at a university. I'm very curious about. Right, right.

Yeah. So so for the hardware side, I think a good five or six full time folks and then probably three part time and then a number of graduate assistants. So one of the programs that we really kind of dove into was we borrowed the idea from athletics. So for first of all, a little bit of context for our residential campuses were very heavily athletic.

So probably 90 percent of our students are involved in some athletic competition or program. Right. So that could be football, could be basketball, volleyball, beach volleyball, e-sports, right, which I think we'll probably touch on some today. Sounds interesting.

Oh yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's it's a university. I'm very curious about that, but we'll get into that. Absolutely.

Absolutely. So how that that kind of functions for us is the is the support of those specifically. So but the our our our makeup of that is that's where I was going with that. I lost my train of thought.

Sorry. So so to kind of we pull that idea from athletics is that after folks get done with their their undergrad degree, they can then get their master's degree and that tuition is actually paid for in exchange for working for the institution, typically for a skill set. So we initially had this idea of of kind of redoing our help desk because it was a it was high turnover. Really couldn't get folks to kind of stay in that role.

So so really work to utilize the the the students who typically came from like a business degree or management management information systems, computer science, and position those folks in a help desk role so they can really get some hands on real world experience. The proof was in the pudding for us because in the first couple of years, two students left before the degree was over because they got full time jobs based on what they did. So like, OK, well, we are really on on on to something here.

So there's certainly a ebb and flow of that. Right. So but that's really kind of helped our staffing situations or our full time folks can really focus on more project driven things when we have a full roster of folks who may be wearing in computer science. So and we're always working to kind of establish and expand that program so we can have a better skill set for students has has they come into that that that program.

So that's something that's really a lot different for us in the educational setting is we can utilize students. Now there's a number of institutions. Their whole help desk is actually for undergraduate students. Now we don't really have the population for that right yet.

So not going to win. Hopefully some way someday we do that. That would be really cool. But yes, there's some other places that that whole portion is done and then the graduate actually do more project based work, which would be something to get to.

So those grad assistant technically grad assistant roles that you pay for. Right. And then they get they make a decent living. Right.

You pay them so that they can continue to take classes. And I'm guessing, oh, you you give them free tuition. Yes. Yeah.

So that's that's kind of the rub, if you will. Right. So that's that's what they're getting out of it. And you know, there's especially in the IT field, that's something that you don't see a lot of advanced degrees.

So that really kind of helps set those folks apart when they go out to get a job. Gotcha. Gotcha. So yeah.

So that that's primarily what our team does. Of course, lots of support help desk. It's making sure the Wi Fi is up. Right.

That sort of thing on the software side of the house. Primarily it's really a support of of our ERP. So that so in within what was an education in general, you typically I mean, you have the ERP, which does a number of things, but you have your student information system, which is really kind of your core product. Right.

So it's going to house attendance, it's going to house grades, transcripts, registrar stuff. Right. So and then the ERP typically is built has other fringe products built around that. So the idea is to have that obviously has has integrated has a composite.

So we we that team does a fair amount of custom development, but not really as much as you would see other other. So it's probably off the shelf ERP then or something that you guys have customized and just integrated with other products. Well, we're so we're migrating our ERP solution to a new one within the same vendor. The interesting part about this, at least I find this interesting, we originally implemented this back in the 1990s.

It was a very open code. Right. So we really had kind of full keys to the kingdom. And there's been a number of extremely talented developers come through OU over the years.

And so they really customize that source code to kind of meet the needs of the institution. Now that is great until those folks leave. Right. And then you go back to the to the the provider, the solution, they really can support us.

So that kind of helped tell the story of why we kind of go for more of the the off the shelf type. Yeah, that makes sense. Type of solution. So that and then for our academic tech side, like I said, that's really supporting our blackboard system, which is where folks take courses and they take tests and that and that sort of thing.

So it's a it's more of a specialized and focused help desk is really the the formation that there is a reporting aspect. So there's like a low level business intelligence, not I mean, it's difficult, it's complex, but it's just not not quite the the focal point is other departments. That's it. That makes sense.

Yeah. So what so one of the things that you and I talked about that was a little bit unique, I thought, and and now that I've done a little research into it, it's not that unique is the governance committee. Now you you've set that up, is that correct? Yeah.

So that that was actually that was a part of our our strategic plan. So we have a new chancellor's of twenty twenty one. And Bill, he he started a strategic planning process. And so I was lucky enough in twenty one was when I was promoted to CTO to be a part of that at the very beginning to help kind of formulate where the institution should go.

Obviously, in a post covid environment, higher ed and just education in general is substantially different. So there needs to be a more focus on on equity for students in terms of how they can take classes in person, remote learning, hybrid learning. There's all kinds of different nomenclature around that. So trying to to rise size of all of those portions and then the the gift giving aspect.

But there was a substantial focus on the the operational efficiency within the institution. So because we have all the the the different locations, things can become kind of a little siloed and certainly isn't from mal intent from anyone. Right. It's just as you're separated geographically, those things can can kind of happen from from time to time.

So there was a concerted effort to to be to really appear as one one institution, one university. And so I was co-chair of that. And then out of that, we decided that we really needed this tech governance process. And and so really, if I had to define it to me, technology governance is a workflow that that we work through to determine what solutions that we are going to implement for the institution.

So it's it's checkboxes because of that, that siloed nature. Unfortunately, there were some things that were brought to the to the university and paid for maybe didn't have the the full buy in from it from everyone. And this isn't just so you this is everybody. Right.

This stuff happens everywhere. Oh, we bought this new thing. By the way, can you integrate this portion from from from an API or whatever? Right.

So so I think that stuff really happens everywhere. But this is really a concerted effort to to to look at that and make sure everyone is aware of these solutions as we as we put those in place. So you kind of formed it. So it is I.

T. specific. That was going to be the other thing is you're kind of it's a little bit broad, but mostly I.T.

It's mostly the software and hardware and making sure everybody's on the same page. Absolutely. Absolutely. So we certainly you know, we the projects that come in, I'd say 90 percent of them so far have been software specific.

You know, they have some certain function there. There are some I.T. specific things that we work through.

Right. Is it compatible with our system? Do we have something that that kind of works like it, which is something that has a CTO I never really thought would be a part of my job, but internalizing technology evangelism, right, which is just talking about what we have and what solutions we have. And so that's kind of the time and place and something comes in something, you know, with some kind of solution.

I say, well, this is great, but we have something that gets us 80 percent of the way there. How can we supplement that other 20 percent? So and that might be a custom development, right? It might be a third party solution, not quite what they what what they have submitted for approval.

Right. So now I will say the we really try to have a pretty wide range of folks on on this committee to really understand the full impact. And so because that we we are tech governance, but it's really kind of moving into more of a operational governance standpoint of, you know, does this really work for us? Does this upset the apple cart for another campus?

Right. So I was going to ask, how big is this committee? So I think about 12 folks. OK, yeah.

So you're trying to get 12 people to agree, huh? Well, seven. Seven of them, right? Right.

Majority rules. Majority rules. Yeah. So and at the end of the day, the tech governance itself does really make a decision.

Right. So we make a recommendation that we pass on to our chancellor. And then so there's some things that we don't really gauge on like finances. Right.

But it's our job to collect that information. So we have to understand how financially this impacts the institution and then pass that stuff on in nice. So one of my questions was who brings these needs to the committee like who I understand procurement is probably involved in all this, obviously. But who I've always kind of wondered, OK, let's say you have a need or somebody decide who decides they have a need.

You guys mentioned that you have a software that you're using since the 90s and you're you know, migrating over to new one. Who brought that need up? Great question. You well, some sometimes, right?

Right. So I would say our director of our software team, she's been there for 20 years plus. And so she really had her finger on the pulse of that. So I would say specifically the ERP, it was more especially with the strategic plan stepping back and saying, OK, where are we at from an overall technical landscape?

And that's one thing that's really improved. I feel like in just higher ed in general, I think there was a statistic I saw from Ed Jucons the other day that prior to COVID, only about 15 to 20 percent of president or chancellor cabinets had technical folks on that cabinet to help kind of drive the strategic making process. That's so interesting. Yeah.

And how can you be, you know, tech forward if most of the people are, you know, you're having recommendations by people who are technically not that technical. So it seems like a very like you're having recommendations, what it seems like almost from anybody like, oh, just a random idea. We need to we need to do this. We need to upgrade this.

And then it just becomes something that just gets presented in front of the committee. Then is that how that works? Yeah. Yeah.

And so and that the portion of it. So pre COVID, it was like 15, 20 percent. Right. Post COVID is over 60 percent.

So there's been a definite shift. Now. Now this is kind of a rabbit hole. But I think the next iteration that is information security.

Right. So that that's going to have a place at that strategic level decision making. Yeah. Right.

So so you know, I was very pleased to see that it was we really took a step back and said, OK, from a technical standpoint and from an operational standpoint, because to me, that's kind of a fine line. Right. Technology operations, obviously, you guys. Right.

So so those things have to work together and kind of coexist. So I I I do think we took a look at that and said, OK, let's take a snapshot of where we are from technology. And there was really there was one like Visio diagram that our director of software that she put together that looked like a maze of all the different solutions that they had to integrate with. Oh, my goodness.

Oh, geez. Yeah. I think there's something wrong here. So we also found that there were a few things like our CRM where the support contract on those was more than our ERP support contract.

Wait a minute. This is kind of backwards. Right. So we needed to kind of right size and kind of bring more things in house.

One thing I said to our board was it would really behoove you to play in that sandbox. It was great for years that we can kind of could kind of customize and be different because the way the text moving to the cloud, right. And everything, especially in the higher end sphere for us, kind of play within those guardrails, I think would be much more helpful for us to our universities differently. I would imagine most universities might even use the same software.

Is it not true? Or do you guys have any specific unique needs that are different than any other university that you need custom software for? Or is it just a matter of people deciding, hey, I like this software better than this other software. And that's what creates the sort of custom aspect to this.

Great question. So to me, it kind of plays into what the differences are. So to me, there's really for higher ed altogether, there's really three different buckets, right. So there are public institutions, KU, K-State, Emporia State, right.

So those are funded by the state, but they're, well, they're partially subsidized by the state, but then also just tuition from students, right. So then you have private schools, which are nonprofit, and that's like OU. Typically they're backed by a church or some kind of other nonprofit entity, right. Then you have private for-profit institutions.

So that's like a DeVry, right. So folks that, and they typically hyper-focus on certifications. I think Cleveland Chiropractic was, I think, a for-profit for a while, but I think they've went through some organizational changes here a while back. So that's really kind of the differences that we find.

And so some of that stuff is going to be based about what type of solution you have. So for example, the company that we purchased our ERP software from, that we are migrating from and to the same company, but a different solution, they actually have one that's more right size for, I'll say, medical schools that are maybe doing more nurse training, right, than where that's specifically what they do. So some of that stuff is based on the individual niche inside it of higher ed.

But there's no general education type of university platform. Not really. I mean, there's a few of the heavy hitters. So we were talking earlier about the whole idea of academic tech, right, and how you support students.

For a little while, it looked like Microsoft was going that route. So one of my old bosses at the K-12 that I used to work at actually went to work in the education sector within Microsoft, he's in Houston now, I think. There was a substantial push to really turn Microsoft Teams and OneNote, at least it seemed to be on the outside, to turn it into a learning management system, right? So there's a number of, I wouldn't say custom, they're actually add-on modules from Microsoft that link up all that information back to your SIS.

So that way all the grades can post each way. And it's about these companies trying to get more into the actual ecosystem of the students. Because as we learned from when we were kids, we all had Macs. So a lot of Apple Mac users, I think, came from playing Oregon Trail in third grade.

So yeah, so that's where I think a lot of that software comes from. There's a few heavy hitters. Oracle's in that space now, but that's like KU and above. So yeah, we're probably about 3,000 students, so we're not in that in that in that ecosphere.

I have noticed that. My daughter's been at a couple of universities, she's in grad school now, and everywhere it's been heavy Microsoft. You get free Microsoft Suite as a student, and everything from email to, it's always Microsoft. Right.

All the way down. Yeah, there's still a big push for Google, especially if folks came from more of the K-12. So I worked in K-12 for about four years. I've been higher ed for about eight.

There's certainly more Google in K-12. There's more Microsoft in higher ed, and a part of that, it feels like that I think they're prepping more for the real world, which is primarily Microsoft. Psh, pish-posh. Now that's true.

Boo, Microsoft, boo. So I am very curious though, considering that you guys don't have really custom platforms, can you give me sort of an idea of why do you need developers? What do you develop? Sure.

Well, the developers we have on staff are really more about supporting the ERP function. So right now our existing one is all Unix based. So our lead senior developer is a Unix guy, right? So he worked a different spot here in KC, ran a number of different Linux servers.

So kind of getting that data out of there and understanding how that mechanics works is different than your typical sysadmin, at least what we found in our hiring strategy. So the software that you guys use store the data locally on your servers, and you guys write software to kind of extract the data, write reports and all that kind of stuff. Do I understand that correctly? Yeah.

Okay. That makes sense. So you're not really necessarily working with the software unless you're probably integrating that, but you probably just integrate it straight from the database perspective somewhere else if you needed to. Right.

And to me what's really interesting about this, getting into the higher ed eight or so years ago, is that there are some functions that we can't customize and are actually not allowed to. So for example, there's software from the federal government for financial aid and student loans. You have to download that software from them to pull the data out in a very certain way so everything's uniform. There was a huge mess earlier this year.

I'm not sure if you guys saw that news, but the fast process basically broke. Oh. Right? So basically around January, February timeframe when folks are really starting to apply to schools, high school seniors and stuff, no one could.

And so that stuff was delayed by about a month and that caused a lot of chaos. So yeah. And so that's just, there's a lot of politics that go in that that are well over my head and I like to keep that over my head. Yes.

Absolutely. For sure. Okay. Very familiar with the financial.

Yeah. And once your kids get into the college stuff, you'll know all about fast flow because that's where you're at. It's an ordeal. One of my good friends actually, he works for Austin P and he's not a TTL level or anything over there.

But one thing that I've heard him kind of talk about a little bit is it's like, oh, we made this cool product and we did all this and we would go to these, they would actually go to some of these conventions, I guess, and kind of have other schools try and use the product or whatever. Do you guys do a lot of innovating or do you have the opportunity? And again, it could be in your different types of universities. I get that.

Right. But I'm curious, the ability to innovate within, I guess, the university. Right. So that's something we'd like to get to.

And really, I'd like to see that be student led. So I've mentored a couple students and taught their, so our, back up, sorry. So I've mentored a couple students and been a part of their practicum process, which has helped them to develop some kind of software or solution. We had one that she wanted to create a room scheduling software.

So we took a Raspberry Pi, put a touchscreen on there and kind of mocked up what it would look like. That's fun. Yeah. So it's very, I mean, it's not super low tech, but it's certainly, we can't go to market with that.

But it certainly, it just gets those students thinking creatively and really combining the business aspect. So we have a pretty heavy business and management program. So really want to get folks in that modality and how that kind of creation can happen. Now I'd love to see our computer science and computer science and just tech students in general attend more hackathons, right, and get into that aspect of it.

You know, we're still kind of growing that. Why haven't you guys done that yet? Is it just budget constraints or just logistics of it all? Yes.

So budget, time, people, projects, right? Fair enough. Those kind of things.