300 Episodes of the 'Now of Work' Community: Insights and Future Trends

Speaker A: Sa.

Speaker B: How are you, Jess?

Speaker A: I'm excellent. Good. Excellent.

Speaker B: Awesome fry. Yay.

Speaker A: Happy Friday.

Speaker B: Uh, where are you?

Speaker A: I am in a. Um. Beautiful. I was thinking about whether or not I should give hints. I'm in Scottsdale, Arizona, on Anley's spring. Spring break week. Do you want to hear a funny story?

Speaker B: Yeah, please.

Speaker A: He's like, oh, God, here we go.

Speaker B: I was trying to figure out if we want to lose the explicit rating this early in the show or not, but go ahead. Let's hear the story.

Speaker A: So Ainsley spring break was a week earlier than her sister's spring break. This is the first time I've attempted this. Uh, I took Ainsley on her spring break. As I hook my necklace. I took Ainsley on her spring break. We have a house, an Airbnb, in this cute little neighborhood near Old Town Scottsdale, and her sisters and her dad. Her dad and Jennifer are bringing her sisters here tomorrow. And we're overlapping all three girls for the weekend. And then I take Ainsley back for school, and her dad and sister stay and keep the Airbnb for another week. So this is like one big combined extended family overlapping spring break. Uh, we've never tried this before. Um, your backyard, Chris. I love it.

Speaker B: I need a mind map like I need.

Speaker A: That sounds very complicated as, uh, families are, right? Uh, exactly.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, but she loves it here. Yeah, she's having a blast.

Speaker B: So everyone welcome now of work Digital Meetup, episode 300. Congratulations to the entire community. I can't believe we've been doing this for 300 episodes. Uh, we started this on March 13th of 2020, um, the day that Covid became a thing. And here we are, March 27, 2026, and it's episode 300 that, uh, is crazy.

Speaker A: Is there anything else you have done 300 times with such consistency? I mean, not that many things, right, other than the normal daily habits that we have to do. But, like, what have. What have you committed to and done 300 times with consistency? Because it's a priority and it's important.

Speaker B: So before we do that, can I just ask if anyone's new? Because if no one's. If. If someone's new, then all of a sudden they're gonna be like, oh, wow, it's my first one. I've missed 299 of these things. Um, but is anyone new? Uh, if anyone's new, welcome.

Speaker A: Oh, I love it.

Speaker B: Uh, welcome to the community. So, yes. Uh, I'm so glad. And, uh, we always share LinkedIn, LinkedIn, uh, addresses. So please, LinkedIn with each other and things like that. We've, uh, got some really cool announcements today as part of the 300 as well, that we'll get to in a second. But, yeah, I, I don't know what I've done 300 times. Uh, I feel, I feel like I've flown 300 days in a row, um, if anything, but that's not.

Speaker A: I don't know that many. Five million milers. Jason. I think you've flown, uh, 300 and then.

Speaker B: Yeah, but I don't know what else I've done 300 times.

Speaker A: I love some of the examples. Piano lessons, newsletter. People who put out content consistently know that it does take commitment. You just gotta stick with it. I know. Leah, the leap gen sweatshirt.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, I figured I'd wear. I figured I'd sport the leap gen sweatshirt because we started this, like, back in the leap gen days. Crazy, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, yeah. So 300 episodes, uh, and we always start with the same question. We've been starting with the same question for a long, long time, which is, how are you today? Green, Yellow, Red. Um, green. Great. Yellow. So, so red. Not so good. But love to hear how's everyone? David Green's here. And just because he's always green. Well, he's not always green.

Speaker A: He's Mr. Green.

Speaker B: Green. Let us know in the chat. How are you? Green, yellow, red. Um, green. Uh, once again. Oh, we've got lots of greens. I like the greens. Sun is shining. I should be green, but I'm yellow today. Oh, I'm so sorry, Megan. Thank you for sharing somear. Um, Samara, I know you're in Israel.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I'm not sure if that's why you're red or if there's other reasons why you're red. Um, but, um, there's a lot of stuff going on in your life, um, that, you know, we're privileged not to, uh. Well, I shouldn't say we're privileged not to have it going on in our lives. It is going on in our lives, just in a different kind of way. Um, but believe me, I think about you and what's going on over there every day.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Jesse, uh, is covered in pollen. There's a lot of pollen in Scottsdale, Arizona, too. Turns out.

Speaker B: Holy cow. Yeah, I connected through Atlanta and everyone was freaking sneezing on me this morning. Um. Oh, my gosh. I got back to Minnesota and it's still, uh. I mean, it's like 35, so it's not quite pollen time yet.

Speaker A: Um, I don't know If I want to come back to 35, uh, I'm gonna go jump in the pool over here. As soon as we hang up before I have to come back to that. Uh, so I would say I'm palm tree green, desert green. Uh, I'm loving this week with Ainsley, and I'm excited about our milestone and some of the stuff we've got up our sleeves. Jason. Uh, so I'm green as well. How about you?

Speaker B: Yeah, I am. I wanna. I. Really quickly, Megan. Um, I always do this and I'll just do it again. I'm gonna put my phone number in the chat. Um, if you want to talk, I'm, um, always here. So, Megan, if you want to reach out, losing one of your friends like that is crazy. Um, I just celebrated a birthday. Uh, I guess that was this week.

Speaker A: Yes. Happy birthday on Tuesday.

Speaker B: When you start to get older, you start to think about those things, uh, and I'm sure your friend wasn't as old as me, but all of a sudden when those things happen, you start to think about age, uh, and you think about concepts like Father Time, you know, has never been defeated, and things like that. So, um, Megan, if there's anything we can do, please let us know. And smadar also at the same thing. If there's anything that we can do. Um, you know, it's a lot going on in Israel and, uh, completely know that. Um, Jess, I'm. I am green, yellow and red.

Speaker A: That's a soup. That is a rainbow of colors.

Speaker B: Like if you. Actually, someone's gonna do that whole AI thing on it and tell me what, what color is green, yellow and red. Um, but I have all of those today. Um, brown. Oh, my God. Okay, then I'm gonna change that. I don't want to do a mix. I want, you know, like when you get ice cream and you have three different columns. We have green, yellow, red. Like. Well, forget it.

Speaker A: You. You're. You're Neapolitan.

Speaker B: Yes, yes, exactly. I don't want to mix, uh, I don't want to mix them. I don't want, um. Yeah, so, uh, I'm green. It's been a really, really good couple weeks. Um, from being in the Dominican Republic with my, uh, 18 year old and watching, uh, boys and the. And others in a foam pool, to, uh, you know, being at Unleash, uh, in Las Vegas, to, um, being at my son's baseball tournament in Orlando, to teaching an amazing group of students last night in Charleston. Uh, so it's been amazing, amazing, uh, time you Know, uh, and it's my mom's birthday today, so, uh, so lots of green there. Uh, I'm a little bit yellow and because, um, we haven't said this, um, to a lot of people, but, uh, today is Jess and I's last Friday, uh, employed by Mercer. Um, and uh, that's a big, big, big moment, uh, in time. Um, and there's yellow to that.

Speaker A: Getting some wows.

Speaker B: Um, there's yellow to it from the standpoint of, um. It's been an amazing, uh, time here for the last three years. And then, you know, before that, um, everything related to Leap Gen. Um, and at the same time I'm really excited for what's next. Um, and what we're going to be doing Jess next, which, you know, we won't share today, but we'll talk about, uh, you know, in our next couple episodes. Um, but some a little bit yellow that way. And then the red part is. It's a, uh. It's not a bad red. It's just a sad red. Uh. And John, very good. That's exactly why I played that song. Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow. Um, there's, ah. There's so many people that um, have made up what Leap Gen was and what uh, we were able to do at Mercer. Um, that it's a little bit red saying goodbye to them. But at the same time, I know it's not goodbye. I, um, know it's hello. Uh, and it's uh, it's the start of a new chapter. So, um, lots of lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of feelings. Um, which is why green, yellow and red are all tied together.

Speaker A: Okay, so we should answer. Oh, thank you, Kristen. Immersive.

Speaker B: The other thing, the other thing, Jess, I wanted to say about red is that, uh, the reason I said red is because I'll. I, I love when people do those hearts on here. The hearts pop up and like to me like, that's red. Uh, and. And like, uh. There's so much love in the people that made up Leap Gen. The people that we've met at Mercer, the things we've been able to do along the way, like that it's just, it's all love. And just like Leap Gen, the L. And Leap Gen was love. Um, and there's so much love to go around that goes around that should be spread around based on what we've been able to accomplish.

Speaker A: Yeah. So to pre answer a couple of questions, the now of work community. I know that is big news. David. We'll read you in. Okay. So that you have a proper, uh, expert read everybody in soon. But we're trying to honor where we are right now. Uh, the now of work community preceded Mercer. This was something, as Jason mentioned, we started in 2020 to recognize that people needed space to talk, to think, to ask crazy questions, to figure stuff out. There was different stuff going on in 2020, but it was weird and wild and we were all on the ride together and turns out that never has stopped. The weird just changes. We're always trying to figure something out. So this community continues. This Friday digital meetup continues. We're still doing this like forever into infinity. Um, and so we're still here with you every single Friday doing, uh, doing what we do. We're, we're happy and proud that we were able to carry this into Mercer and we're happy and proud that it continues on, ah, outside of Mercer. Like it was never a Mercer thing. This is our community for all of us. Uh, and so lots to share and lots to announce next week. But, um, to all of the Leap Gen people that just celebrated a milestone, um, you know, as part of Mercer and continue all of our digital transformation work that we brought, uh, we're, we're proud of everything that we've done and accomplished there with you. Uh, that's quite a legacy, uh, and quite a story that continues.

Speaker B: Yeah, very, very well said, Jess. Um, so going forward, one of the things that, that we're really excited about is to take what we've been able to do and make it even bigger. Okay, so when I say make it even bigger, that that means there will be more community events, there will be live community events, uh, as we've talked about, uh, doing, which is something that we've been really, really excited about. And as part of the transition, we'll also be putting our community on a new platform. So we've signed a partnership with a new platform company, uh, which is called Circle. Circle, uh, is a company that, um, I've been fairly close to based from it. Uh, not from an investment of my standpoint, but from an investment standpoint in the VC space that uh, both Jason Calcanis and uh, Mark Cuban are behind. And that will be. Yes, more airline miles. Exactly. And, and that is where we will be hosting all of the events of the new community. So, uh, throughout the session here today, I don't want to take too much time and uh, because Hung is an amazing guest, uh, throughout the session here today, we'll be putting the link in the chat a couple times and Please go to the new community site that will be our home. That's where you'll get all replays. There'll be live chat in there with communities. It's already set up, and that's where we'll be hosting all of our events starting next Friday in that community. So you'll get an email with all the links. Once you're in the community, you'll be able to chat with others. We, we can still share LinkedIns if we want to, but we'll be able to talk to each other right there, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So we spent quite a bit of time building the infrastructure for the new platform. Um, it's going to keep growing. And the idea, you guys, is that we're going to grow it together as a community for sure. So if all of a sudden you say we want AI tips and tricks in there, let's. We're going to add it. If all of a sudden you say you want a job board there, we're going to add it. If all of a sudden you say you want a family section in there where we used to post pictures of families, like, we're going to add it. So just like everything else that we've done, we want to build it as a community and keep growing it as

Speaker A: a community, for sure. Uh, I love how this community continues to evolve. I've always been a believer in community, but in working out loud, building out loud, that is the whole essence of a community. We started this on Zoom. Uh, we moved to Crowdcast because it allowed more continuity, uh, like messaging each other, message boards, networking. Uh, Crowdcast bombed after a while back onto Zoom, but we've been missing some of the community elements we really want, which is a space, a chat board, uh, ability to connect with each other outside of these meetups, um, a place to post content, whether it's replays of episodes or just articles and tools and stuff that you guys want to share with each other. Uh, so hopefully Circle is that place for us. But if you guys have experience, some of you may belong to Circle Communities already. If you have feedback for us, if you want to help build it, uh, please do. But, uh, I'm excited that we finally found a platform home for us.

Speaker B: So I think that, Jess, that's probably enough of an oh, shit moment where we don't have to talk about our one big thing and our oh, shit moments. For those of you that join so that you can get those things off your chest, um, would love for you to do that, but, um, before we do this, uh, the other thing that I just want to do is I want to thank three people that were huge. It's our nbt. Yes. It's our next big thing. I want to. I want to thank three people that have been really, really key to making this community work. Uh, Alicia Salmon, um, who's been on before, but she's done a great job in driving this. Um, Leah Tanner, um, one of the OGs of the community, who's done an amazing job in driving things. And then J.C. grider, who makes sure that we stay aligned. And we spend 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9 hours of prep every week preparing for this every Friday show. Just kidding. Um, she. We show up one minute before, and she, uh, um, does an amazing job of making sure that we stay on track. So, uh, Alicia, Leah and JC love you, because there's no way we could do this without you.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: On that note, let's bring on our special guest, because I'm so excited for him.

Speaker A: I am, too. I'm so excited to have Hung. And funny story, like, when I scheduled Hung and thought, like, I wanted hung for our 300th episode, um, it's just fantastic. Human, fantastic guest. Everybody's a special guest. But, uh, I actually thought our 300th episode was February 27th, not March 27th. So I think we all sort of forgot that this milestone was really happening, uh, the way it was. Like, even Hung. And so he's finally here. I feel like we, uh, have been building up to this, uh, for a bit. And I think Hung also probably understands, um, better than a lot of us what it's like to build a community over time, uh, because he's got an incredible following of his own. Hey, Hong.

Speaker C: Hey, guys. How are you doing?

Speaker B: Good. How are you?

Speaker C: No, great to see you guys. And, uh, wow, what a way to start off, uh, a webinar with a. With a huge, huge splash. Um, let me first, uh, add my congratulations to you guys for, uh, an amazing innings at mrsa. Um, and, yeah, I totally vibe with what you're saying with Community and what have you and the fantastic, uh, sort of, uh, project you've built here. Um, brilliant innings. And, um, yeah, everyone is very much looking forward to seeing and supporting your success in the next phase.

Speaker B: Thank you. When you said that about Mercer, it reminds me of something. I do want to. It's very important also to thank Mercer. You know, Mercer has allowed us to do this. Mercer m. Allowed us to keep this community going. Um, Pat Tomlinson, Ilya Bonick, Stephanie Penner. Susan Haberman have done a brilliant job in supporting uh, this mission that Jess and I had. So it's important to call them out as well because you can't do this without the support like that. So Hung, thank you for calling out Mercer as well. So Hung, where are you joining from? I want people need to hear the Hung story. Like, and by the way, like Hung and I hang out on X together. Uh, Hung and I, uh, will oftentimes retweet each other on X. Even though a lot of people get mad at me for being on X, I still get to hang out with people like Hung.

Speaker C: So same Jason. I think Jason and I are probably the only like uh, recruiting people still on X. I think, um, everyone else has been too horrified by the toxicity of it. Um, but it's like, okay, you just gotta hold your nose, you gotta just stay through it.

Speaker A: You know, I love that. Oh, you have a lot of fans here. But for those who don't know you, Hung, what's your story and uh, what, what's your vibe? Where in the world are you? What do you talk about?

Speaker B: And someone, someone already put your episode, your morning episode of Out There, uh, in the chat as well, which is great.

Speaker C: Oh, thank you Steve. Yeah, appreciate it. Um, so yeah, I mean I'm still a recruiter. I mean I psychologically still identify up every morning and think, yeah, I'm a recruiter. Even though the truth is I haven't sort of sent a, ah, resume uh, in anger in over 10, 15 years or so. Yeah, like, you know what, like you really need to make a hire or make a placement. That hasn't happened for a long time. Um, uh, but um, but yeah, it's, it's like all I ever know. So even though I've now transitioned into a different type of function, um, I'm still thinking about recruiting, I'm still thinking about hiring. My role is pretty much like an ecosystem support person now I think, you know, uh, like the entire recruitment ecosystem. Whether you're uh, an in house person, a recruitment technology business, uh, a candidate, a hiring manager that cares about recruiting. You know, I see that as the entire ecosystem. And my job, such as it is, is just to try and make sure uh, you know, the information is flowing through those folks and um, the more education, information, connections we all get, the better we all become. Um, and you know, a more robust and healthy ecosystem is better for everyone. So, so yeah, that's generally what uh, what the North Star is so long.

Speaker B: Where do you live now?

Speaker C: I live in the uk I live in London. Um, I mean I don't travel around a lot but that's really a ah, sample bias for my Instagramming. So my, my Instagram is generally a bunch of selfies. That's the entire thing. Uh, and I only post them when I've got something interesting on. Typically when I'm in a recruiting conference or when I'm in a, in a different location, uh, for another recruiting conference. So that's generally it. Brahma. I'm gonna be, I'm in London usually but I'm gonna about to embark on a big trip in Asia. So I'll be out in AAPAC for about six weeks or so. Um, and I'll be trying to hit up a few local communities when I'm in those places as well because we talk about recruiting a lot. Um, but guess what? Um, I know nothing about recruiting in Korea, know nothing about recruiting in Japan or nothing about recruiting in China, any of those places. So I'm going to try and meet with people that recruit in those territories and then see whether we can bring some of their insight into the global discourse. So um, so yeah, I'm excited about that trip.

Speaker B: So Hung, I want to start and I want to take a candidate perspective because you know I wrote a sub stack yesterday about this where there's so many people struggling to think about what's next, uh, whether either it's finding a job out of college, thinking about their skills and what do they do going forward. Are they, you know, I look in the mirror. Just laughs at me because I say this quite a bit like look in the mirror and ask myself if I'm still relevant all the time, you know, as the world is changing so fast. So I would love for you before we start talking about the nuts and bolts of the recruiter because I think that gets talked about a lot. I don't think we talk about candidates enough. And if I'm a candidate, whether I'm a college student or mid career, like what's the advice right now?

Speaker C: That is, I think firstly Jason, um, I think we're all candidates aren't we? Um, uh, you know I don't think anybody is walking around with a sense of like uh, uh, a security um, about where they're, where they're at. Um, uh, the world has just changed in such a dramatic ah, way over the past five years and all we're seeing is like an increasing rate of change and increasing volatility also. So there's no, there's no getting away from where we're at. Um, you know, my, my analogy is that we're in a washing machine. Um, we're in a washing machine and the spin cycle is not going to slow down. Um, and so that's alarming. That's sort of anxiety inducing. Um, I think we're over the, the kind of, uh, the happy talk to say, hey, listen, this is just a cycle. You know, be better in 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, what have you. Uh, this is like a, this is a step change in terms of what the next sort of, uh, world is going to look like. And all of us are rightly anxious about it. Um, the way I do, including myself, by the way. Um, the way I deal with it is two ways. I zoom out and zoom in. Um, so the first thing I do is zoom all the way out, you know, into the galactic sort of space and think, okay, what does this all look like from, uh, from, from that perspective? And it's like the Carl Sagan quote, you know, it's like we're just sort of, uh, all these humans in this single pale blue dot in the middle of this, this huge vastness, um, of the universe. And you know, whatever happens, everything is just so much bigger than our current moment. Let's understand that that's where we're at. Um, let's also understand that changes of this type have occurred before, and the people during those changes probably felt much the same as we did now. Um, so all of the feelings we have are actually very normal, even though, uh, we've never been trained for them and we've never been prepared. Prepared for it. But this is basically how change feels. Um, the second thing I do is then zoom all the way back in. Um, uh, so, uh, all the way back in is sort of what, how do I react to it. So here's my individual actions. What can I, what is it within my sphere of control? Um, how can I respond to these things going forward? And suddenly you feel, um, a lot more sense of responsibility for your actions because you do have control over the things you think of, the things you say and the things you do. Um, and if you just think about those three elements and then think, okay, can I be a positive influence during this really tough time for everybody? Can I just like micro plus one every day? Can you be a plus one to the universe every day? M. And you hold fast to that concept and suddenly your life improves, Your, your own life improves by trying to be more positive to others. Um, and so, and so I try to do those two things in the middle of the zooming in and zooming out, by the way, is all the news on Twitter that you and I over consume Jace, which is stuff is crazy. It's unacceptable. We can't do anything about it. But we have to stay sort of uh, uh, put it in context in the wider sense. And we also then need to zoom right back down and say what can we do to make things better? So, so yeah, that's basically how I stay on a level. Um, I'm sure other people have different solutions as well. Um, the worst thing we can do though is, is the, is to you know, give in to anxiety, um, give in to despair, um, have sort of the doom scrolling overly consume our day to day. Make um, sure you get out there and speak to human beings. A big part of the reason why I do travel by the way folks, is, is not because, you know, I love my holidays because a lot of it is just in and out of hotels, in and out of airports and stuff like this. It's a grind, as you probably know more than anybody else. You too. Um, but it's because I think you can be overly connected to the Internet. Um, and the Internet is one form of information. You do need to have it. But we have to bear in mind that any digital information is generally produced information, meaning m. Someone has produced it. Meaning, um, someone has produced it for a reason. Meaning they want you to think so certain way. Um, and you have to corroborate that with shaking hands with people, looking them in the eye and having a conversation. Um, and you'll soon find that you'll have different perspectives simply by doing that. Um, and so yeah, traveling, meeting new people, constantly having conversations, making an effort to have a conversation with, with people in your daily life. That's the thing I think we could all do, uh, do more of.

Speaker B: So, so Hung, as a famous, I'll call it a famous recruiter for lack of a better. You know, I don't know what to call you. Um, but I'm going to ask you and Jess, who are both recruiters much more than I'm a recruiter, even though

Speaker A: it's a recruiter, always a recruiter.

Speaker B: Even though I feel like I'm always recruiting, even though I'm not a recruiter, just like I'm always a candidate. Uh, Hung, I like the way you said that. You know, we're dealing with this first year career issue right now and it's, and I, I do believe it's real. Um, and I don't think it's just a bunch of Ah, hype from Tech Bros or tech. I'm not sure there are any tech gals, but Tech bros, for the most part, they're getting all the noise right now. Are making the noise right now. So as a college senior or junior, like, they're getting advice like, go apply for jobs, go apply for jobs. Work hard. Go apply for jobs, Go apply for jobs. And what's so fascinating is they don't even know what's happening behind the scenes, Hung. Um, like, you know, is there. Is their CV ever being seen, you know, when they apply for a job online, is it even a real job, etc. Etc. So I would.

Speaker A: Why there's as much AI to get past AI as there is AI to screen. Like, everybody's just AI ing each other to death. Like, how I get past all your AI. I know I'll use AI it's absolute madness.

Speaker B: So. And by the way, Steve, I did invite college students to this live cast on purpose. Um, so, um, there are a bunch of them on. They're just not saying a lot. Uh, but all of that being said, you know, Hung, what, what advice would you give people right now? You know, just go randomly on job boards and start, uh, putting your information out there. Uh, I think it's much more tied to networking, but I'd love your thoughts.

Speaker C: Yeah, I don't think it's contra. Any controversy here anymore, Jason. I think we've got to a point where absolutely almost everyone recognizes that spending 100 of your time doing job applications is not going to give you 100 return. Um, the, the reality is, um, there is an overwhelming deluge of job applications, uh, into traditional hiring funnel. Those hiring funnels are basically breaking down because they can't process that much data, um, and they're responding with more AI to deal with it. So the answer in real terms for a college student right now is, number one, you have to actually play the game. Um, and you have to automate, uh, your job applications. You have to compete like everyone else. And this is part of this kind of flywheel as Jess, you mentioned. You know, it's, it's kind of this evolutionary arms race that we see between job candidates and recruiters. Um, I think that is, initially, that was a joke, like 12 months or so ago, right? It was like, oh, wouldn't it be funny if AI was talking to AI Suddenly it's reality now. Um, and we can interpret this as problematic, but I interpret it as simply a transition to a new way of discovering information. So I think we, we can't be Moralizing about people using AI to optimize their applications application rates. You should absolutely do that. You should absolutely automate it and you should absolutely be the most competitive applier for jobs, um, as you can. Um, however, you also need to understand that this is a very low percentage way of doing, of getting a conversion. Um, and because it's very low percentage, you've got to reduce the percentage of effort you put into that. So once you set up an automated system, you just let it go and then you work on other things that are higher percentage as you mentioned.

Speaker B: Jason, would you just explain what you mean by that? A very low percentage of conversion. I mean if you put that in plain English, it means that you have a low chance of getting a job that way just by, by sending out

Speaker A: a lot submit to 100 places for one callback. But if you have the system set up as Hung described you, it didn't take you a week or two weeks to apply to a hundred places. You're just auto applying, uh, you know, in a smart, intelligent, systematic way. But you should be auto applying just like you're getting auto screened. Understanding how that works.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think basically you've got to, you got to cover it. You know, it's a low percentage play. But I don't think I can say to any college, college graduate here or any job seeker of any age, uh, or career trajectory, you say, oh, stop applying altogether. I would say you do it, but you got to just control the amount of time you're spending doing that. Um, if you're spending 100% of your time doing job applications, absolutely no, uh, you should be spending no more than 5% of your time doing it. So if you have a, let's say you have 100 hours a week, you um, should be spending no more than five hours applying for jobs. Um, and you should do that, it is automated and you should try and crush that five hours down as much as you can such to, to get to, you get to a point where it's more or less a fully automated system. Now a lot of recruiters sort of listening at this are probably thinking um, what are you talking about? I've got enough candidates deal with etc, etc. My response to that then is simply look, you're going to end up deploying artificial intelligence to screen those applications anyway. Uh, you're going to hit these people with AI interviewing anyway, we're uh, going to implement all of these tools anyway. Uh, this is simply, ah, kind of we just have to push through, through if you like. Uh, this um, uh, moment between two systems of information discovery. So, so the first way in which we're discovering information was basically one, one party screening the Internet manually and then doing these manual applies, putting it a sort of an input into a search engine, drawing up a list of uh, job, uh, opportunities and then sending apply, apply, apply. Um, in future we're going to obviously do that in an entirely automated way and there's no getting away from a few future where sort of an AI mediated Internet is going to be the way in which we discover new services, new people, new connections and new everything. Um, now again, I have no idea whether that's a welcome sort of world or not. I just think it's inevitable. Um, so we might as well just get there as soon as possible, um, and not kind of waste time doing, using an old process that's already obsolete. So number one, let's do that. That's, that's less than 5%. What do you do with the 95%? Um, actually everyone has the same advice, including people like LinkedIn. LinkedIn. I was at LinkedIn Talent Connect earlier this this week and they were saying hey listen, the value of your connections, which is code for don't apply for jobs, which is code for listen, don't spend all of your time applying for jobs. But actually uh, using your connections as best you can is going to give you a much better chance of actually getting to a full of going through that sort of process or better yet going through an alternative process while everyone else is like going through the front of the door. Um, so this is talking about um, you know, building relationships with people in the companies you care about, identifying individuals you already know that might be adjacent to or working with those businesses, finding a way in which you could highlight your own profile, you highlight your own sort of uh, narrative, uh, uh, that catches the attention of those folks. That's stuff that you, you kind of need to be doing. It's hard work, it's different kind of work. It's basically sales and marketing for yourself. Uh, but you've got to try and learn to do it. Um, I think looking purely on sort of our own industry in, in talent acquisition and hr, the people I speak to that have got sort of a, a job recently, they've all got it through that, through that method. Very few of them seem to have said yeah, ah, I applied for it and converted it. Um, most people have said yeah, I basically spoke to someone who knew somebody in there and gone through all of this by the way, um, goes completely contrary to the direction of travel that we have been traveling to pre AI. Uh, so we're rolling all the way back uh to your network, to your social capital, uh, to the people that sort of uh, uh, who know you, who you know, um, all of those things that are kind of full of the, that sometimes quite problematic. You know we're talking about bias, we're talking about sort of people who have inherited uh, network value so to say you know we know that sort of uh, there's going to be people lower down that soci. Socio economic ladder that uh, the penalize more for not having the network or the parents, the parents not having the network than uh, than they are being materially uh, disadvantaged. Uh so we're rolling back to different kinds of biases. But uh, we. That's the world bizarrely that AI is delivering us to to. There's a lot of things that seem to be going back towards even the pre digital sort of period. Um, but yeah, those are the things I would suggest you do. You've got to divide your time and make sure you're investing in the areas that basically give you a better percentage chance of a result.

Speaker B: And I think Hung, you're saying sorry Jess, real just quick. I mean Randy put in there. I'm a contrarian compared to Hung. I try to be as human as possible. Try to find any human connection you can. Get referred in, find some ways, uh, you know, oops, sorry. Get referred in, find some way to get a human to treat you like a human. And I don't think Hung, you're saying don't do that. You're saying you need to balance and in fact you're probably saying you need more of the human and less of automation. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah that's exactly it. I mean Randy, Randy's point is correct. Um, but basically you've got to cover the basis. It's almost like table stakes. Make sure you've got 100 applications plus out every day, every week, maybe every day. You could probably do with AI now but then spend your time um, doing the human stuff as Randy said, um, what you don't want to do. The problem with job search is that you can be very, very busy and actually have no results. Um, you know you can spend tons of time searching for jobs, tons of time sort of uh, bespoking your application, uh, tons of time doing these things. You think it's actually productive work but it's really just displacement activity. Um, uh, the chances of converting are low and they're going to get lower. So um, so. So you. You can't basically spend, uh, your time doing that.

Speaker A: I think of, you know, back to your original question, Jason. How do you talk to a young person who's exploring the job market for the first time or graduating or early career? Um, I very much think of this. Like, you know, we sort of had traditional ideas, traditional paths. Every young person thinks they need to go to college, apply for traditional jobs, work in business or corporate or whatever field of interest they have. I feel like there's so much, uh. It's like looking ahead at a highway that's buckling in front of you. It's literally sort of like the road is coming up anyway. And so, uh. And I feel that very much, you know, even being here with Ainsley this week, my oldest, I haven't been. Even me. Even me. I haven't been able to unwire her brain to think that she must go to college, uh, immediately after high school graduation, and she must do all of these things that are very traditional and expected. Even me. I can't seem to unconvince her that this is the expected path. Um, and just quick story. This week while we're here in Scottsdale, we found a sunrise yoga class at the top of this little mountaintop. Uh, be there by a certain time with a small group and an instructor, uh, and watch the sunrise come up as you're doing yoga. This instructor told, uh, a little story about how she came to be in Scottsdale doing sunrise yoga on a mountaintop at the foot of a tomb. What a life. Uh, she said she grew up in Maryland, came, uh, to Scottsdale as a young person, absolutely fell in love with the area. Didn't really know how to get here. Like, I don't have. Don't have any reason to move there, but she just knew she wanted to live here. So she found a job as a concierge at a fancy resort, which is ironic because she has no idea where to send people when she's new here herself. So she started getting curious and talking to people and asking people what their favorite things are to do while they're here. And she became, like, this amazing concierge because she was a visitor with a lot of curiosity herself. So now she had all these great recommendations to make. Uh, and lo and behold, that's how she sort of built her life here. 20 years ago. She's still here, and now she's doing, like, these custom boutique yoga experiences for tourists. It's just part of her gig. She has, like, a lot of little gigs. She's literally living a life that she designed, that she wanted. She got after it with curiosity and networking and just walking into places and figuring out how she could be useful. Her telling that little five minute story as part of our experience. Ainsley looked at me, she literally looked at me and said, so I, so I could do something like that. I said yes, like kind of to Hung's point, like, cover all your bases, do all the expected stuff just to keep the, you know, the wheel turning and to make sure that opportunities are surfacing themselves to you. But also we're human beings living a life that we can design. And some of this is just scrappiness and resourcefulness and getting out and talking to people and asking for referrals and introductions. Like, I don't want us to forget that we can still do that. Uh, and I wish young people understood there's lots of paths, uh, and options to us.

Speaker C: It's such a great story, Jess. Um, and I'm really pleased that you've told it to us now and also that your daughter and everyone around actually heard it. Because sometimes we don't really realize the importance of simply striding forward into the world. I, um, think my generation grew up with pretty much the, the traditional stuff, as Jason said. You know, it's like, okay, go to college, do well there, apply to a college. Uh, after you, after you sort of finish college, you're going to get a graduate job that's going to take care of next two years and then off you go. You're in this kind of middle class, knowledge worker, ah, ah, journey. And, and that's you. Um, pretty much it was all like, uh, uh, there was no real decisions to be made. Like, you almost felt as if this is the obvious path that you've got to go through. But the reality is for young people today is that they're gonna have to make decisions much earlier. Um, they're gonna have to make decisions at 16, 18, 21, all of those big, big phases. And it's going to be uncomfortable. Um, but the lesson of the story you told there, Jessica, uh, was the uh, action of just going forward and interacting with people will help you discover your way. Um, the biggest mistake I made in my life, and one of which is still a bad habit of mine, uh, is that I tend to overanalyze things. So I've got a tremendous faith in my analytical ability. Um, and therefore I think, okay, if I just sit there and analyze enough information, I'm just going to come up with the best option. Right? I'll Just come up with it. Because I have the ability to analyze. This is actually bs um, uh, the way in which you get the right answer is to go out there with little information and have the action generate the information for you and then work it out as you go from there. Um, and I think people, young people, take the attitude from the lady you described. I think they'll be much better said. So it's almost an attitude, a sort of an attitude shift as much as a mindset shift. And, uh, I'm pleased that your daughter's being given at least an example to follow there.

Speaker B: Uh, you know, Hung, one of the things that I. People ask me all the time, whether it be on college campuses or in large organizations that I work with, is you. You mentioned making decisions at 16 and 18, and people are like, I don't know anything. I don't. My kids don't know what to think. Like, they don't know what they want to do at 16 and 18. They've never been exposed to anything.

Speaker A: Steve.

Speaker B: Uh, Jewell. You know, just another that comes to mind at an early age is agency.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So to me, we've got some work to do to fix that bridge between what happens in 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. I'm going from a US standpoint, and then is there college and then what is my path that I'm creating for myself look like? Because I think I, I mean, I'm from the same generation as you. I think even though I'm probably 50 years older, uh, where, where like I was just told I have to go to college, then I have, then after college, then the career center is going to find me a job, and if I have a degree, then I'm guaranteed a job. I mean, none of that holds true anymore.

Speaker C: No. And, and, um, what we've done, um, is we. We've actually, in fact, infantilized us to a significant degree. Um, and when we know, we talk about kids and all the rest of it, but prior to everyone being going to college, you know, people getting into work at the age of 15, 16, um, uh, you know, we're getting in and becoming adults a lot sooner. Uh, now we've extended childhood by saying, you know what? Don't do that. Um, we're going to educate you, we're going to go to university, and then from there you'll get the step up into middle class. That was the general promise. Um, but that lasted for about maybe 20, 30 years, maybe 40 years or so. That era is coming to an end, and we need to give A different promise to young people, um, because we're not going to be able to deliver the same kind of, um, job growth in the same areas at the same kind of uh, uh, compensation, uh, uh, that they've been promised. Um, so yeah, we need radical change. I, I wrote something last week which was a controversial take and I'm sure it's a triggering take for a lot of people. But I actually believe that we need to break the education system uh, significantly at a much earlier age. In other words, I think at 13, 14, um, every kid should spend three months of the year working in a paid internship in a company. Um, and they should do that for the next three years. So by the time they're 15, 16, they've already got the equivalent of two years experience in work. And from there they're going to be much m more equipped as to how to make decisions going forward. Whether it is the right decision to go to university or college, uh, further education, or whether through some of these internships they've developed a pathway that they can see that they want to uh, get involved in. I think it closes the gap between the academic management of skills acquisition and what companies and organizations actually sort of need. Uh, um, and uh, it will rebuild the career ladder that, that's been chopped away by AI M right now. The promise that we're like the UK as, just to use an example here, kind um, of had a record low 10,000 job vacancy, under 10,000 job vacancies in February for graduate, graduate students. The UK graduates 500,000 people a year.

Speaker A: Oh my God. Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, what are we, what are those people going to do? They're going to be driving Uber, they're going to be riding a bike and delivering fast food.

Speaker A: Food.

Speaker C: Um, now that's not saying those are bad jobs or what have you, but you could probably have done that without having to go to university for four years and incurring that time waste and that time cost. So we need radical change. Um, um, I personally don't think that the problem we have guys is that basically no one is really managing that change. So you can't really tell a company to do it. You can't say, hey, uh, we want you to hire a bunch of young people because we think it's to going good for society. The company is going to make decisions that's good for the company. Uh, and right now it's not clear whether hiring a young person, where you need to invest a ton of time, uh, before you get any kind of return is in fact the Optimal case. In fact, you can often see from their behaviors that they don't think that's the case. Uh, because they're not recruiting these young people. They're actually recruiting senior ICs that can have these ready to go skills. That's the only area that's to going growing in, in terms of the, if you look at the career trajectory of uh, of uh, of, of uh, of company hiring. So I think it needs state intervention. I think basically governments are going to need to change the way in which we think about young people coming into the world of work. It's not going to be here. You get educated, big break, then you start work. Uh, we need to do education then it needs to be a ramp up to work, uh, with that overlap. But that, that's a revolution. That's. I've never seen any country do it, but we're going to need something of that type.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I love Jessica's question in the chat. Given the difficulties of college. I mean this is what we've created. Here we are. It's sort of like, yes, yes, yes, but here we are. So if you are a college grad, if you are early career, how do we navigate where we are right now? Like what's the answer? If this is you and this is your current pain, do we have time for intervention for these folks or.

Speaker C: Well, I think we need to raise the, we need to kind of. Um. The reason why I think it's still important to have the debate at this higher level is because we need to understand it's a systemic issue. Um, so this isn't sort of a graduate that's, that, that's incapable. I can't get a job. You know, I'm sure there's a bunch of graduates out there that are still getting heat from their parents for not getting a job. It's like it's not them, you know, so you got to talk, talk to at the higher level. The fact is graduate entry jobs, I think everywhere US is for sure the same as the uk. Basically a complete collapse, uh, of uh, graduate vacancies there. Um, and we need to uh, basically understand that this can only be solved really at governmental level in cooperation with the private sector. So this is going to, we need to agitate and talk about it at that level. Now again we talk about zooming in at a practical level. What should a young kid do? Um, it is the same as we discussed before. It's like, okay, cover the bases with the AI stuff. Make sure you're actually AI enabled. Can you come into an organization with an AI enablement story. Uh, I think right now, um, what is it? Uh again LinkedIn data is saying the, the skill quote unquote, um, that is growing faster than anything is uh, is AI. AI of course is much bigger than a skill. It's, it's uh, uh. But it's interesting how that term itself um, has been inserted into almost every job description and job advert is because companies are aware they need to AI enable themselves and the way to do that is actually hire it in. So I think young person, one thing they may have as an advantage against a person already in work is that they may have a time advantage. In other words they may have more time than a person who's currently working away 40, 50 hours a week. Um, and therefore they should invest that time in AI self enablement. Can they get themselves to the point where they are highly skilled in terms of using the technologies available today? Uh, can they do things at this times 10x speed, um, uh, that purportedly they're able to do? I think if you can demonstrate these things that should make you a very interesting hire for an organization because the not not only uh, companies won't be hiring that individual as future talent, they'll be hiring someone who's going to come in and immediately up level their AI capability. Um, and I think that's something that um, uh, young people might have a competitive advantage on. Not because of generational stereotypes but simply because they may have a surplus of time right now, um, which they can uh, they can invest in skilling up on this.

Speaker B: Hung, I want to get to the, there's a question here that said what are the best systems out there for automating AI submissions to jobs, for identifying the right openings and tailoring the resumes to it? Um, I don't know any of that, so I don't know if you've studied that or not.

Speaker C: But um, it's a landscape that really is in a Cambrian explosion of innovation because it's actually very easy it turns out to scrape the Internet and, and, and compile a list of jobs and then optimize your resume or your application against what's, what's ingested in those jobs. So there's about, there's thousands of, of, of products out there. I think the most famous one is probably AI Mass Supply. Um, this is where you sign up. You pay like you know, $10 a month. So basic subscription level, consumer grade, subscription level stuff. Um, and it will apply for you. Um, like I say, I don't want to endorse any tool. I don't want to say, you know, go ahead and use this. But the truth is, um, a candidate using those tools versus a candidate not using those tools, if you're using, you're going to outcompete, um, and you should, um, if you. In this competitive market, you should. But bear in mind, um, uh, this, that the effectiveness of these tools will start kind of, uh, sort uh, of declining as employers start responding to them, um, with more artificial intelligence screening and so forth and so forth. So this is where some of the other stuff we talked about needs to come into play. So it's like any marketing tool, sort of, uh, innovation. It's going to last for about three months. It's got to work for three months before the rest of the market does the same. And then there's a response from the people, uh, who are on the receiving end.

Speaker A: Yeah, I know. And the, you know, recruiters are getting sick of this. Yes, I know. This is the whole like, whack a mole thing where we're just out AI ing each other. I think the most innovative employers are giving some guidance. Uh, when you visit their career site and you view their jobs, they're telling you how to use tools, uh, to present yourself as the best candidate. They're being transparent about where they're using, uh, solutions to help them evaluate you. Like, if you can just kind of like open uh, the curtain a little bit and so that everybody feels like they have a level playing field and a fair shot again, like, what's the best outcome? The best outcome is a, um, match, a suitable match. You want to be here and we want you. And as soon as you can get to that truth, like, who cares what solutions you're using to find each other if it's a good match and the right outcome? Um, but if it's getting in the way and clouding that judgment, clouding the time to get to a good decision making, then that's. Then it's a mess. Nobody wants. But if this is helping us get to good answers, the right answers faster, um, then it's all about using it well and properly in pursuit of a mutual outcome.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think people are right to be critical of some of the stuff I said. I mean basically, um, it's adding on to the recruiter burden. Um, because what is optimal for the job seeker is not optimal for the employer. And this is part of the challenge we have is that those two things are intention. Um, the way I've thought about this is ultimately, um, this is not really problematic. It's simply a transitional phase between sort of the way of applying for jobs. I mean, quite possibly the entire concept of job applications disappears because this will eventually become untenable. Um, I mean we're already at the point where we're no longer sort, uh, of sort, uh, of applications are no longer human reading. Uh, because it's impossible to read a thousand resumes in a day. Uh, so you're going to use an AI to read that.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: And so at some point, um, the human being is only going to read what the AI recommendation is. So the AI mediated future is already. Is already here. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, look, uh, this is what's going to happen if I put the job seeker hat on. This is my toolkit and this is what I would recommend. Um, from a recruiter point of view, you'd put a different hat on and a different toolkit and some of those things will be, uh, would basically be responses to what the job seekers are doing. So there is a. Somewhat of an adversarial type of approach here. But guess what? Uh, it's always been this way. The, the, the recruiter and the job seeker, their interests are not always aligned. Um, and uh, and this is part of the why AI is going to. The AI adoption sort of flywheel is going to spin ever faster because one action will make the other one go faster.

Speaker B: That.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, we could have had you for two hours. Will you come back please, after Jason and I, uh, like reveal all the stuff we're going to work on next.

Speaker C: And when you do your big Bang launch, um, as to what, I hope you have a party about this, um, uh, and do some sort of celebration. Just let me know when that is and I'll come along for sure. Um, make sure, make sure you let me know about it.

Speaker A: Yeah, we will. Thank you so much for celebrating 300 with us. Uh, uh, what a journey with all of you. We have such an incredible community. This is such a beautiful industry. My kids hear me talk about like the space, the industry. They know weird words like this because I don't know how else to refer to like this ecosystem. Uh, but it is a pretty beautiful ecosystem we all orbit in. Uh, and I appreciate the community you've built as well. Hung. Thank you.

Speaker B: Yeah, you guys, thank you so much. I'm so excited about the 300. It's a major accomplishment. Like I said, we started it when Covid was around. We had no idea what was going to be. Um, please join the community uh, it's kind of funny the number of people that have joined already and are already live.

Speaker A: My phone's been buzzing over here and

Speaker B: are already live chatting with me. One of the nice things about that community is that it does have a mobile app. So, uh, not that you need more of us or anything like that, but, uh, we can stay connected all the time. So. Jess, happy 300 hung. Thank you for joining. To everyone at Mercer, um, most specifically Iliabonic and leaders, thank you for letting us continue to do this and can't, uh, wait to see you guys next Friday.

Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you, everybody. Happy weekend.

Speaker B: Bye. Bye.

Speaker A: Take care,

Speaker C: Dad.

Speaker A: Sa. Sam? Mhm.

Speaker C: It.