Writing Emails That Your Audience Can't Wait to Read with Bobby Klinck

Speaker A: You're listening to the not so Wimpy Entrepreneur Podcast, a podcast full of actionable strategies for busy entrepreneurs who want to bravely grow their online business. Here's your host, Jamie Sears, the owner and CEO of a multi million dollar online business. Well, hey there, not so Wimpy teacher. Uh, entrepreneurs, today we, we are talking all about email and more specifically, we are talking about the emails that you are writing and sending to your audience. Because you, you are sending email to your audience, right? This is so important. You need to hear this. But sending weekly emails to your audience is a must. It's a must. You have to be writing to your email list at least once per week. This time is so much more valuable than time you might be spending creating reels and TikToks and Facebook posts. And don't get me wrong, I like social media. It's usually where I find new leads from my email list. But I know that the most valuable time that I spend is the time I spend writing to my email list, writing to my audience and sending it straight to their inbox. It's how you connect with your audience, that they know who you are and they like you. Just really important. It's also how you teach and serve your audience. They probably joined your list because they wanted to learn from you and that's how you can do it. And, uh, it's how you sell to your audience. Without email, I would not be making the revenue that I am. I can tell it because if I send an email, my cha chings explode. If I don't send an email, it's kind of quiet. But here's the thing. Sometimes emails can seem kind of hard, right? You sit down and you have this blank screen and your cursor's just blinking and you don't know what to write. You're like, I don't know, nothing happened. I'm not creative. I'm not good at writing these. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. I'm not a copywriter. Well, here's the truth. If emails are not fun for you to write, then they're not going to be fun for your teacher audience to read. I don't want to read the stuff that you didn't have fun writing. It's just the truth. My very good friend Bobby Klink, he writes the most fun, um, emails. I actually enjoy reading his emails. And can you really say that about very many people in your inbox? If you go through your inbox, do you think, gosh, I really enjoy when this person emails me. It's pretty rare, but I love Bobby's emails, and he has a really good time writing them, and that's why it's so fun to read them. Bobby Klink is here with me today to teach you how you can do the same. How, um, you can write emails that are so fun that your audience actually wants to read them, and then they want to buy from you. So let's go ahead and learn how Bobby is using email emails with his audience. Welcome back, Bobby, to the podcast. It's your third time, so I'm going to say you can't get enough of us.

Speaker B: That's right, I can't. But. But in my defense, as I recall, the first two times I think we recorded in one marathon session. Do I remember that right?

Speaker A: I think we did. I think we were on a podcast for hours. So now our teams know better. So Beth, my obm, she scheduled me a meeting for right after this. That's how she controls me now, gives me boundaries. Does Katie do that?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: I have to do that in my meetings with Katie because that's our biggest problem. We are both very loquacious, and we're both verbal processors and we're both extroverts. So when the two of us get on a call, if we don't have an outside bounds, we will last for six, eight hours. Just between the two of us.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, guys, sit tight. We're going to do a podcast together, but I promise it won't be four, six, or eight hours, because Beth scheduled me a meeting. But I'm super excited that we're chatting again. It's actually been quite a. Since we've done a podcast episode together, but this one, I really wanted to have you on because you have something huge that just came out into the world, and I really want to chat about it. Tell us about your new baby.

Speaker B: Wait, what? I have no idea. What are we talking about here? Okay, I'm joking. Clearly. We're talking about my book, um, Email Marketing that Doesn't Suck. Which. And it's funny. Jamie, you will have no. Like you would understand this immediately. This book started. It was not going to be about email, and it was not going to be snarky. It was going to be a serious, like, how to, like, be a radical giving, serve first entrepreneur. That was the book I was going to write.

Speaker A: Okay, you could write that book. But, Bobby, this is a way better first book for you.

Speaker B: Correct. Right. And again, it's like, uh, so literally, I had this inspiration I'd been talking about writing a book for a while and kind of like you're talking about with Beth, we, uh, were doing this project management back in the fall of 2020 where we would prioritize things, all these different major projects based on various things, like the amount of work, the upside, like all of these different things. And it would like, literally we would just rate it and then it would automatically sort them in an Excel sheet, I think, or Google sheet as I remember correctly. Guess where writing a book came in.

Speaker A: I know because same thing was happening to me at the same time. I think my team actually was purposely pulling it down.

Speaker B: Yeah, but it was funny because write a book was my thing that was at the bottom. And then the thing that Katie, my integrator, always wanted was a tech stack overhaul and that was like the second to the bottom always. And so the funny thing is then at uh, the end of 2020 after we did our first live event, it was an amazing experience we had. We closed like 30% of the room into a high ticket coaching offer. So we're feeling pretty good. About myself and like in the afterglow at like 11 o' clock at night on that Sunday night, I was chatting with Katie, uh, via chat or something and I said something like, can I write my book yet? And she says, go eat your cake. And I said, yes, I'm going to start, I'm going to sign a contract so that, you know, I can get started. And so I did. But at that point, really it was in this afterglow of this event where I announced my free university and all these things. And so that was what I thought. But then as I got into it, I was like, yeah, I'm just, I'm not ready for that book yet. I'm not ready for the heartfelt take people to business church lesson. Instead I've got to write the fun book first. And that's where we came, uh, with this book about email. And you know, I think realistically it's, it's the perfect first book for me about business because what else would I, would I have written? And so, I mean it's been a great process and it's been a lot of fun doing it and it's, it's awesome seeing it out in the world now.

Speaker A: I bet. I can't wait to see my book out in the world. But I'm really proud of you. So I finished up, uh, the book in just two days. Guys. It's, it's an easy read because Bobby writes in a very Fun way. So you keep wanting to turn the page. And, uh, so it's. It's one of those reads that you can get done in just a day or two. It's not like deep and heavy and. And you have to, like, force yourself to get through it like some business books. So I really want to chat a lot about email today because I think the teachers in my audience need to hear some of your hard lessons. I love to write email. And so Bobbi and I, we chat about emails and sequences and stuff a lot. Like, it's. It's kind of a. A fun conversation for us to have. But I like to read Bobbi's emails more than anyone else's emails in my inbox. And that's a weird thing to say, but you get a lot of people who tell you that, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, I have a lot of people who basically tell me that they read every email I send, no matter what. I have people who tell me, like, they already have the product that I'm going to be promoting, but they're like, can you send me, like, can you add me to the list to promote the stuff too? Because they want to even get my sales emails. And so, like, that's one of those things. Everybody has these thoughts, especially in our space, where they're like, oh, but they don't really want the sales emails. That's gonna bother people. And I've had people do that, like, tell me, no, no, they love it. They want. I have people who are on my list with three and four different email addresses because they know that I'm segmenting, I'm sending stuff different to different people at different times, and they want to see all of it. And it's this thing again, these are kind of the marketing. And I say this lovingly because I'm one of them. These are the marketing dorks or the marketing geeks who just want to see all this stuff, who do that. But I have a lot of people who've told me that. And it's one of those things that I always. I know when I was starting out in the online space and the marketing space, and I always. I had the same fear that other people did, which is if I send emails, it's going to bother my people. If I send them emails too much, it's going to bother people. And then I said, well. And again, I didn't even realize this at the time, but now I look at that and I say, well, only if your emails suck. If your emails are fun, and if you make your emails something that people want to get. It's not an intrusion. It's actually something that brightens their day. And again, also, let's be clear about this for a second. How long does it take someone if they decide they don't want to read an email from you today? I mean, you know, it's, it's boom. I mean, you know, it's two seconds of their life. So as long as for the most part, they're going to want to read your emails. It's one of these things where you don't have to worry about the problems that a lot of people worry about, which is, oh, if I email too frequently, people are going to get mad like, no, again, you know, we want to be respectful. I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to get 10 emails from you on the day I sign up for your list. Don't do that. But within reason, it's just not a problem. And if you're. But only if you're doing email the right way. And that's the big key, I think.

Speaker A: All right, so we're definitely going to have to talk about the right way. But first, can you share with us a little bit about maybe one of your very favorite emails that you've sent to your list? Cause I know there's a bunch you share. So in the book, he actually flat out shares the emails word for word. Even if there was a typo, he goes ahead and includes it so you can see the authentic message that his audience received. There's a bunch of them. And they'll make you laugh like, uh, that's enough reason to read the book in and of itself. But you gotta share with us an example of what, what is, what does a Bobby email sound like? What's one of your favorites?

Speaker B: So again, and it's funny. Cause the favorite one is. It's the one that's in the introduction. And I use this because it has a very valuable lesson, because it's also the very first good email I ever sent. And like, I juxtapose like the email. First you get to read an email that was the old way, which is the standard this week in my podcast, I'm talking about X. You'll learn this, you'll learn that. But it's all just kind of blah. I mean, why would anyone read that? And then the first email I sent, the subject line was in quotes. Why are you sending me pictures of you with random women? And it told the story of. I was at, uh, an event at Amy Porterfield's Entrepreneur experience. It was the first business event, especially in the entrepreneurship space I'd ever been to. I live on the east coast. It was on the west coast. At that point. I was working with Amy and her team on legal stuff already. I'd been a guest on her podcast, so I knew her team. So the night before the event, there is this kind of a get together. And I don't remember how it worked. I think it was like the first certain number of people who bought tickets or something. Got to go to that. I don't remember who got to go, but I'm there. And it's a meet and greet with Amy, and there's this big line to take pictures with. And so I'm chatting with friends. We just kind of get in line. I'm like, okay, whatever, fine. So I get in line, and then I get to the front, and her integrator was there at the front. And I wanted to take a picture with her because I'd been working with her, talking about it. And by the way, I am, um, still bad at selfies. I can't do it. So, you know, Chloe actually. I mean, Chloe clicked the button and it's taking a selfie. And so I do that. I chat with her, then I go take my picture with Amy, and I do that. So the rest of the night's kind of a blur. I literally, uh, am going out. I don't even remember where we went to dinner, but we went to dinner with a bunch of other people at the event. And then I went to a bar and just had drinks and was living in the experience because unlike you, unlike you, Jamie.

Speaker A: Oh, where is this going?

Speaker B: I am not an introvert. I love that energy. For me, I wasn't at the bar all night to be drinking. I mean, I had a drink the whole time, but it was about being around the people. I was around my people, loving it, getting energy. I go back to my room about midnight, and I start going through my phone to the pictures, and I see this picture that Chloe took, and Amy is in the background photobombing us in the most ridiculous way with her tongue out. And, like, I had, like, a belly laugh. I didn't fall on the ground or roll on the floor. But as close as I come to that, and I was just cracking up. And I'm like, I've got to show this to somebody. I don't know about you. I don't know if this happens to you, Jamie, but at some point, I'm like, I've got to show this to somebody, but there's nobody there. So I text it to my wife who knew I'd been working with Amy, knew that, knew that's why I was there. But she was long asleep because it's 3am on the east coast. And so I wake up then the next morning with a response from my wife. Why are you sending me pictures of you with random women? Because I hadn't even thought about the fact my wife had no idea what Amy looked like. She thinks I'm literally just sending her pictures of me having a grand old time with a bunch of women while she's back at home with, at the time, our three or four year old daughter fighting the battle. So she was none to bleed. So I sent that email. I mean, so I sent that as a story in the email and as you can imagine with that subject line I got a lot more opens, but I got responses. And it was the first email I'd ever sent where I got a, uh, response, I should say. I mean maybe I got some annoyed responses randomly at other times, but it was the first one where I really got, I struck a nerve and people loved it. And people were sending me a thing, a response telling me that they were cracking up. And that actual email when I sent it was the story was way too long. I didn't really tighten it up because I hadn't really worked on that skill yet. But I did that and doing that really tied in. And what I used, that was a hook. My podcast episode that week was with uh, Mike Michalowicz and it was about Run, uh, Like Clockwork, his book at the time, which was about building a business that runs like clockwork. And so I used the fact that I was taking this picture with Chloe, Amy's number two, as an example of having someone like that in your business is important if you want to, to have a business that runs like clockwork. So that's kind of how I brought it around to the content. But it was an immediate response. And then the next week I told another story that had something to do with the event. It was not nearly as good, but it was another story. And after that second email I got a response from someone that, to paraphrase she said something like this, I've been on your list for a long time and for the first time I feel like you're a person, not a company. And for the first time I want to do business with you. And I was like, I m think I might be onto something here. And so that was the moment that changed everything. And again, I mean, it's hard to pick my favorite because there's always the email I sent on Easter week one year.

Speaker A: That's my favorite.

Speaker B: That one's my favorite subject line. I don't like Sweet Baby Jesus. Not, not, not. And I immediately defuse this. And I'm not talking about the person, I'm talking about the beer. It's an atrocity of a beer here in the D.C. area. And it was a thing about. And again, I was, uh, like that moment, I had no idea what that I was going to write about that email. And I opened my refrigerator and saw this beer because I wouldn't buy it, but one of my friends always brought a six pack or a four pack, however they sell this stuff. And it never got drunk because nobody liked it. So I saw it and I was annoyed and I was like, I know what I'm writing in my email this week. And so I did, because my podcast episode that week was about the importance of simplicity in your business. And that's my view on beer. Beer should be simple. It should be made with the traditional ingredients. And this beer has chocolate and peanut butter and all kinds of stuff that just make it horrible. So I use that as a hook into that. And so, yeah, that's one of my favorites. There's a lot of them. And that's the hard part. I've. I've, at this point, there's just too many for me to come up with favorites. It's like picking a favorite child. And I only have one child, and still I don't want to pick a favorite.

Speaker A: That's awesome. Well, I love that you talk about how you didn't always know how to write good email like this. And, uh, you briefly mentioned your original email. This is probably, this is how I used to write email back in the day. And it's probably how a lot of people listening either have written email or maybe do write email. And that's the whole, like, here's my blog post and like, here's the bullets about it. And why doesn't an email like that work? Why. Why can't we just do that? Because it's a little easier to just cut and paste the show notes and like, stick them in an email, Bobby.

Speaker B: So you can, I mean, look, you can do that, but I mean, you can bang your head against the wall too. Ah. And I don't. I wouldn't recommend it. And the problem fundamentally with what a lot of people are doing is we're doing stuff to check a box and an email like that is about checking boxes. Like someone told me I'm supposed to email every week and so I'm going to send an email and it's a low hanging fruit. It's like, what am I going to. Well, it's a way to stay top of mind to talk about my content. And again, that's the other thing you'll hear people talk about that you know, you want to stay top of mind and you do. There's definitely something to that. But really what, what most people aren't getting, I think, is that the most powerful thing that email can do for you is build a connection between you and your audience. Now, it's great for selling when you're in a promo sales phase, but ultimately I think the most underused part of email is the connection and building a relationship. So if you send emails like that, in this week's episode we talk about this. In this week's blog post we talk about that. It doesn't do any of that. It's not adding anything about you that allows people to truly connect with you. Now. It's not getting you value. The separate problem is, let's be honest, if someone wants to listen to your podcast, and this is why, because a podcast has always been my form of, my primary form of content. That's a really dumb way to get people to listen to a podcast. Right? Because you don't open an email and say, oh, I'm going to go click on this link, which is going to take me to a website, which is where I'm going to listen to a podcast. No, most of the people in my audience, they already know I have a podcast. Either they've subscribed or they said, I don't like this guy's podcast, I'm not listening to it. And so really those emails were doing absolutely positively no good because it just isn't the way to do it. And so that's, I think, why you need to shift. And if you shift your thinking and say, okay, the purpose of my email isn't necessarily to get a click on a weekly basis, but it instead is about building a connection with my audience where they see me as a person, where they feel connected, and where maybe they start to see me as a friend, that is powerful and it can have a huge impact on how effective your email will be, but also how effective everything will be in your marketing. And that's one of the funny things. If you do email right, everything else seems to work better too.

Speaker A: Yeah. If you really think about the entrepreneurs that you probably Follow, you probably know about them a little bit, their personal life and that you probably enjoy actually seeing posts, like, about Jenna and her fertility and her miscarriage journey. If you follow Jenna, you probably read those posts about her babies. If you follow Amy, you know about Hobie and you know about Stout, like, because they've taken the time to let you in to meet them as a person, not just somebody selling something.

Speaker B: Yeah. And this is something where I think part of the problem is that if you model email, like, uh, around what big companies do, you wouldn't do this. Right? Because we don't care about personality for Apple or Old Navy or whatever. Just think of some big brand. I mean, for them, email is just a sales channel. It's, uh, a, hey, we're having a sale. We have our promo. Here you go. And that's what you as the subscriber want from it. But our businesses, even if, whether we have a personal brand where literally, in my case, Bobby clink.com or you don't, Jamie, even if you have a brand name, our personalities are a big part of why people choose us instead of someone else. Uh, there are a lot of business coaches in the world. People choose to buy my coaching program or buy my membership because they connect with me as a person now. It's also they agree with my thinking and the way I approach this stuff, but even that they could find other people, but people like me. And again, a lot of people don't like me. And that's okay, too. If you want to really attract your people, you have to be willing to repel the people who aren't for you. And this is about letting people in your life. But one thing I want to be clear about, I talk about my wife and, uh, my daughter, but I've never used their names and I've never included a picture. That's like a line that we've drawn where I give people way less about my life than a lot of other people who openly share pictures of family and stuff. And we just made a decision that we weren't going to do that. But people still feel like they know me. They still feel like they know my wife, even though it's only ever been my wife. And actually, people like my wife more than they like me half the time because, you know, they realize that she has to put up with me 24 7. And so you can do this without having to get overly personal and give things away. And I know that's a concern for a lot of people. They're like, I don't Want to open up about it, you don't have to. You choose what you share, but just make sure it's authentic and that you're letting people know the real you.

Speaker A: Uh, I did. I've been friends with you for many years. I never realized that I didn't know your wife or your daughter's name until I actually read who you wrote the book to. And I was like, it's the first time I've ever heard their names before. I had no clue. And we've been friends all these years. Yeah.

Speaker B: And it's just one of those things. It was one of those things my wife, it was like before it was even in marketing. She is not a social media person. She's not on Facebook. And she didn't want me sharing that, sharing all this stuff. Because Facebook had always been a place where before it was a marketing channel for me, it was like the random friends from high school, many of whom actually were very mean to me in high school. So it's kind of like she didn't want me sharing that. Sharing a bunch there. And it just carried over to business. So it's a decision we made. But yeah, like you said, I mean, the people who read the book will get the dedication, but other than that, you just don't see it feel the need to do that. But I think a lot of people feel like they know me at a pretty deep level.

Speaker A: Yeah. And if you really think about it, you share about beer and TV shows.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And uh, yet yeah, you do feel like, you know, you. I share pictures of my children and names of my children. But that's, you know, something my husband, I decided was okay, but we've drawn the line. Like you don't have to air all your dirty laundry. You can have boundaries but still share. I mean, if you think about writing to your friends, you don't tell them everything and you don't have to tell your email list everything in order to connect.

Speaker B: Yeah. So what I, what I heard like someone I was talking to, I think it was yesterday, had it had a great point. And I think this is like, so we've heard people talk about, you know, you don't share it when it's an open wound or a scab. You wait till it's a scar and that thing. I don't think that analogy does a lot of good. Someone said this to me yesterday and I think this is the best way to think about it. My audience is not my therapist, so I should not be sharing stuff with my audience as a therapy As a way to work through stuff. And so I don't. And so, and again, there's, there's. People have different views on this, but also I want to respect my audience isn't like, yes, they want to get to know me, but they're primarily here for either legal stuff or the business advice and business coaching, business strategy. Right. So I'm not going to tell a story simply to tell a story. I'm going to tell a story because I can use it as a way to demonstrate something to them, to help them understand something about the legal stuff or understand something about the business stuff. Like I shared a story recently, uh, I don't know, last week, I guess about a 15 year like kind of argument I had with my dad about a suitcase. And it was a disagreement about whether it was mine or whether it was his and I borrowed it. And I could use that as an example of, uh, because there was no written agreement. Now you wouldn't have this with your dad, obviously, but I could use it as a way to say, look, this is what happens in business if you don't have written agreements in place. And so I could just use this very relatable example where people got to know things like, you know, my dad can be kind of, uh, annoying and I can be kind of annoying and we can have this long going thing. So they learn those things about me for a purpose. And that I think is the line that people need to understand in it that you're not telling story like you said, to air dirty laundry or to get therapy or to work through stuff. You're doing it to serve your audience.

Speaker A: I love it. So when I first started writing email and blog posts, really, because I think this actually works for both, I tried to write like I was a PhD and oh my gosh, it took forever to write anything. And my audience didn't really connect with it like it wasn't working. But in your book, the first part of your book is really a lot of mindset shifts about what we've learned about email marketing. And it's in the first part of your book you said that the best advice that you could give is that you need to write like you're a, uh, friend. How do we write like a friend when we're trying to also look like we have authority?

Speaker B: So, and uh, again, here's the thing like, and this is a piece like everybody has to understand their particular avatar for their business, not their audience, their brand avatar. So there will be some people for whom writing not just email, but everything Else in a more authoritative way will matter and will be important. Right, if that's the basis for your authority. But ultimately, if you sound like an annoying, you know, blowhard, people don't want to listen to you. And if you sound overly technical and overly formal, people don't want to read that. Again, I understand that we have to read some of that literature. And I don't, uh, don't get mad at me. Teachers who are listening here, you know, I'm a believer that some of the stuff that we have to read as literature, we only have to read because it's been considered great literature for a long time, not because anyone today, if it was published, would think it was good literature. And it's because it's so hard to read. And we shouldn't be doing that. We should be building it up in a conversational way. And again, I do it naturally because my kind of brand avatar, I'm a rebel. But uh, my brand voice guide, I hired a guy who really dove into what I do, and he basically said, I'm like your big brother at the bar. So sometimes I'm just, you know, having a good time and we're just, you know, joking around. Other times I'm pulling you aside and being the caring big brother, trying to steer you away from trouble. But if you think about it, your big brother can have a lot of authority, but they don't have to talk in a very authoritative way. And, uh, it really depends on the thing. But if you think about it, if my emails were all about legal and very formal legal, not legal language necessarily, but trying to sound like a lawyer, no one want to read that because, uh, that's just boring. And so I get it, and I understand this perspective, I understand this concern. But I'm just saying if I could ditch it as a lawyer, a guy who had spent a bunch of money, a bunch of time to become a lawyer, and then had practiced for 17 or 15 years, I guess actively, you can too. Trust me, there are very few people where you have to be formal in your writing. And if you do it, it would be maybe if you're a career coach for executives or something like that. But even then, you should add some of your personality in here and there.

Speaker A: Now, for my audience, I now seek to be the teacher bestie, not the person in the room with the highest degree. Because when I actually think about it, when I was a teacher, I wanted to go next door and ask the teacher her advice because she's actually in the classroom doing it instead of going to some education article in a journal, I wanted to talk to my teacher bestie. And so in my emails I seek to just be their teacher bestie. I don't claim to have a PhD and I don't use all of the formal jargon, but I say, hey, I did this in my class and it works. Do you want to do it? And I find that to be easier to write and more fun for me. And then when it became more fun for me, I didn't mind writing emails every week so much and my audience didn't mind reading my emails every week.

Speaker B: Yeah, and again, so like, what I'll tell you is if you're someone for whom like being the authority figure actually does mean being very authoritative, uh, again, if you're a PhD, and that's why you believe you have authority and not just a PhD, but a PhD in something very serious, like a PhD in business, for example, which actually exists, if that was the basis for my authority, that could maybe matter, I guess. But you're going to know that, uh, and if you're having to write in a way that doesn't feel natural to you, it's a problem. And by the way, I want to be clear. Most people shouldn't write emails like I write emails. And I don't mean that they should not tell stories, they should tell stories, but I choose to be funny. But that's because I am the guy who, quite honestly, and I think a therapist could probably have a field day with me or a psychiatrist, but I built it up as a defense mechanism as a kid growing up, I was smart, I was often out of place. And so I discovered that self deprecating humor was one of the best ways to avoid anyone really coming after me. And so my humor is often at my own expense. I figured out that me making fun of myself is one of the best things I can do to convey things. And part of what I have to do, and it's funny, someone pointed out that I'm one of the only people, I have one blurb on my book and the last line of the blurb is, the guy seems arrogant, but he's right and someone went out. Only I would say something like include a blurb where basically someone is calling me pompous or arrogant. But I do it because I recognize that again, I have to somewhat say, look, yeah, I'm a Harvard law grad, but I'm just a regular guy too. And so part of what I'm trying to do is establish that. And that's part of why I establish a voice. I did. Also, I literally was the kid in the back of the room who. I'm sorry, teachers. I was the really annoying kid who raised his hand all the time and annoyed the crud out of my teachers. Let's just be honest, because I would point out when they got things wrong. I mean, I can remember my calculus class, I was having to correct my teacher all the time. But again, that's who I was. And so, of course I'm going to lean into that personality in the way I write my email.

Speaker A: And I'm. I'm sarcastic and cheesy, and so my emails tend to take more of a sarcastic. And I have, like, the cheesiest transitions, and it's me. If you read my emails and then you meet me in person, I will probably say some of those same types of things. Just like you. I've. I've hung out with you on Zoom because that's now how you hang out with people. Um, and you are exactly the same way in real life as you are in your emails. Yes.

Speaker B: And that's what I. And this is, by the way, this is a broader point than email. You want people, whether they interact with you by listening to a podcast, by meeting you in person, by reading an email, by reading a blog post, by interacting with anything you do. It should all make sense. Now, in a sales webinar, for example, you're going to be different, but still the same. I mean, when you go to one of my webinars, I have a lot of, like, slides that are just meant, like, I put them up, almost like, to make people laugh. It's almost like, can I make. Can I make people laugh? And it's hilarious. Now, people who are in my audience who are like, I've attracted a bunch of, you know, smart Alex. And so they try to make me laugh, like, at my events. Their goal is to have the chat make me laugh and distract me. That's part of their goal. And it has become this interaction which. Think about the power of that. They feel so connected to me that they're wanting to have that interaction with me. And when you do it well, it works. And, you know, people said, doesn't matter where you meet me, I'm going to talk about, you know, I'm going to make Seinfeld references. I'm going to make references to pop culture from the 90s and early, early aughts, because those are what I think of as my formative years. And maybe you're going to miss it. That's okay. You know, I'm going to make reference to things like TV commercials. Like, for example, um, you know, at one point I wrote an email, I don't remember when this was where it was, pointing out that, you know, apparently everybody thinks they have. They slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night because they think they're experts in things they're not. Which, again, most people would miss that reference because it's a reference to commercial. But I'm like, that's who I am. That's how I would talk. That's what I would say in real life. So that's what I'm gonna say in an email, and I would clarify and I'd put something to explain it to people who didn't get it, if it's an important part. But, um, you're just gonna meet me and you're gonna know me.

Speaker A: What I love about what you're saying is that you are being uniquely you in your email, which is attracting people who are similar to you. And so the people showing up to your webinars and your events are joking and having a good time like you do. And now you get to serve an audience of people who you like to hang out with. Yes. And so many times as entrepreneurs, we think we need to serve everyone. So we're so busy trying to be vanilla as not to, um, make anyone upset, not to turn anyone off. But you are actually attracting people that you want to serve and hang out with.

Speaker B: Yeah. And this really came through to me. I'll, uh, never forget there was someone who's. In the first year I ran a coaching program. Was my beta coaching program very small. And she came to me and she. At some point during. On one of these calls, she just talked about how social media had just become exhausting to her. And we dug into it, and the reason why is she said she literally felt like she had to put on a mask. And I don't mean no physical mask, but, like, had to be a different person on social media. And I thought to myself, wow, that would be exhausting.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: And I think that's what so many people are doing in their marketing and everything. They're showing up one way because they think that's how they're supposed to show up. And then they attract people who are attracted to that thing. And so then either they have to keep that Persona even after those people have bought, or they become the real person to the people after they bought who are then like, wait, I don't, uh, know. It's a mismatch. So imagine if I was ultra formal. And if in all my marketing stuff I showed up as ultra polished and all that, but then people are going to get into my paid programs and I'm going to show up off the cuff wearing a T shirt they're not going to like. Some of those people be like, wait a minute, if I knew this how you showed up, I'm not going to like it. And so I'd rather people just know at the outset and they can do it again. I'll just tell you seven or anything else. If you're attracting people who are like you, they are going to be way more likely to buy from you because they're just naturally it's going to feel like the right thing and so it's much easier to do it. And again, it depends. I mean, look, let's be clear. I mean, your buyers, Jamie, don't need to be people like to buy one of your resources, don't need to necessarily relate to you because they can use your resources. And so there are products like that where it doesn't matter as much, but anything where there is an interactive component where they're going to be learning from you, it really does matter. They should like the way you interact or they're not going to like it.

Speaker A: I totally agree. All right, so going along the same terms of like, writing, like your friend, you also talk about writing the way that you talk. And we actually have talked about this before. I love writing the way that I talk. Editors don't like to read your work

Speaker B: when you write the way you talk,

Speaker A: but I love to do it. And so, yeah, the grammar police could come after my emails for sure. But you gave some tips in the book about just learning how to write the way that you talk. Because generally we've, we've been taught by our great teachers how to write formally how to write in those perfect five sentence paragraphs that I actually think are baloney. So how do we learn how to change that and write in the same verbiage that we talk in?

Speaker B: Yeah, so a couple of things. Number one, there are people who speak in pretty, I don't say perfect grammar, but who instead of ending sentences and prepositions, they just naturally are rewording things as they speak and doing that.

Speaker A: Yeah, those kind of people don't like me very much. Right.

Speaker B: But I'm just saying, like almost everybody else, uh, we in sentences and prepositions, we use fragments, we use run on sentences. We do all of those things that break the rules of grammar. And part of this, of course, is like look, when we're speaking in person, the grammatical rules, it's not as important because we can pick up on body language cues and things like that. So I think that's part of why we speak differently often than we, than we write. But also I think it's just we recognize that we don't have to be as formal when we are speaking generally. And what I want people to understand is that can apply to your emails. And so the way you do this, there's a couple things. Number one is think about it for yourself. I know, for example, that I'm someone who naturally goes off on tangents when I talk. And I often will literally say side note and make a point and then come back to the main point.

Speaker A: Guess what? You don't say bar you're a lawyer, you should say sidebar.

Speaker B: No, I say side note. But I mean, but you'll see that in my emails, I, uh, literally will have, oftentimes I'll have in parentheses, side note, and then I put a side note and then I come back to the main point. And so I know those things about me. But another way you can do it is get on a zoom call with your friends, record it, and just talk and see how you talk and find your cadence. And so some of it is finding a cadence. People have said, like I said, I'm really hard to pin down my voice because I really have two voices. One of them is kind of the snarky big brother, uh, that is funny, often run on sentences, often all these things. The other voice that I have, and you'll see this in some of my emails, but not as often, is I, and I think I alluded to take people to business, church, and that's what it sounds like. And people have said when I'm in that mode speaking, I sound like a preacher at the pulpit. And you're hearing it right now with the staccato, very different, choppy, you know, and that some of my emails are written that way because that's sometimes how I talk. And so when you do this, you'll start to pick up on how do you naturally communicate, talk, et cetera. And most people, it's going to be much easier than me. You're not going to have to do it. I hired this guy to come up with a brand voice and like I mentioned, I broke the mold. He said he had, I don't remember how many. I think he has like 13 categories or some number of categories. And he said, you don't fit any of them. And I said, well, okay, good. That's about normal for me. But most people, you'll fall into a few different types of voice and a few different types of rhythm for your speech and you'll find that and it'll work. And once you find it, it becomes more natural. The value here is, and I use this example, so one of the people in my coaching program is a woman who has a program for women who are pregnant. And it is yoga, breath work, meditation, pelvic floor exercises. And she, everything about her says she's a, uh, yogi. I think that's what yogi. But I mean that's kind of the calming surrender. Like that's just her vibe. Try to imagine if she tried to write an email like I did, it would just make no sense. Or if I tried to write an email like she should, she should have a very calming, very more nuanced space because that's just how she talks. I talk fast. This came clear to me in an episode of another podcast that came out the week we were recording this where it was like tips from 12 different people who are contributors to this thing. And when you got to me, I sounded like the micro machines, uh, commercial because I just, I talk fast. It's something about me, I know it. That's my energy, that's my excitement. And so my emails will have that feel too. You'll see a lot of like one line and I say one line. You'll see a lot of paragraphs that are four words, three words, four words, five words, and it's just boom, boom, boom. Because that's my natural cadence. But you do that by listening to yourself and by becoming self aware and then by recording yourself and watching it. And that's how it'll really come through over the long term.

Speaker A: I love it. All right, so let's get down to some of the juicy practical stuff. Uh, for those who are like, okay, but yeah, how do I write emails? So your emails have three basic parts. You want to explain that? M. Ah, yeah.

Speaker B: So, and this is for. So there, there's, there's some emails which are different. So sales emails can be different. And then there's a few other emails. You do it. But otherwise we generally use what I would call the story based email structure. And it's very simple. It's hook, story, call to action. Now the call to action is kind of, it's a, uh, mix. It's a message and a call to action in one. But if you use those three pieces in that order on a consistent basis, you'll Write good emails. And the important piece to understand is that in most emails, the story is the vast majority of the email. That's the big point. Because what you're trying to do is figure out, how can I tell a story that will give a lesson? But, and again, sometimes, like, uh, Jim, I don't know if you do this, sometimes I can't come up with how I turn it to the thing. And I'll say, I can't really figure it out. Too good of a story. Anytime I do that, my subscribers respond and tell me how it relates. But when you use this structure, and just to be clear, the hook is generally your subject line. It's what is it that's going to hook their attention from the story. The story has to relate to the call to action, the message you're trying to get across. So the way you write these emails is you start by saying, okay, what is the message I want to get across? And that I'm going to ask him to do. So if it's for weekly content, it's going to be okay. It's my weekly content. And they're going to say, what is a message or a lesson that I can kind of tease out from that big piece of content that then is a lesson or message that you have to find a story that you can relate to that. And the trick to really great stories is over time, and don't feel bad if you can't do this when you start. But the trick is that they're not directly related because if people already get this point in the same context of your content, they don't need it. And let me give you a story about this to help you understand. I was doing a guest session in someone's program and one of the members had a program. And I always say when I talk about what other people teach, I always say, not, this is not me. Don't blame me for it. But she had a program where she taught people taught women to stop looking for a man who was a pretty face. In other words, they said the men who are pretty packages are trouble, was her essential message. Luckily, I've never been accused of having movie, uh, star good looks, so I don't think I fall into that. But so she was doing this. She's like, okay, so how do I tell a story? So should I tell examples of when I went out with men who were pretty and it didn't end well? I said you could. But the problem is if they already relate to that story, they're going to get the message Instead, come up with other things outside of the context of dating, where judging a book by its cover is a mistake, where something that looks pretty is a piece of junk on the inside. And I was like, it could be a car, it could be like a computer, it could be a house. I don't really care. But those stories from other contexts that people will relate to will help them to say, ah, uh, I get it now. That's the real key, because your point is to try to use the story to kind of help people understand the message, even if they don't yet really get it in the context of what you do.

Speaker A: And so, like, uh, example, how I use this, um, framework. I do it. Bobby teaches, I start working backwards. So I start with what my content's about, because that's going to be my call to action. I have a blog. So let's say I'm writing a blog post, uh, five mistakes teachers make when teaching vocabulary. So I look at that and I'm like, okay, the message, it's about mistakes. Instead of talking about me teaching vocabulary, that'd be kind of boring, actually. I start thinking about when's the time I made a mistake just in life. What's a mistake I made? Well, recent mistake I made was I let my daughter drink her lemonade out of a plastic wine glass. And now every night she says, I want wine. That was a mistake I made. Big mom mistake. So now my story can be my mom mistake. And I can then transition it into speaking of mistakes because, yeah, my transition's pretty usually really cheesy. Like I said, that's part of my personality. I say, speaking of mistakes, let's chat about the mistakes that we often make when we're teaching vocabulary. And so my story isn't about vocabulary, but it's about mistakes. And we ended up looking at our content, found we had several themes we do often we are making things simple. So I started creating a list of stories of times that I've made things hard or times I've come up with a good idea to make something simple. We talk about mistakes. So I always keep a running list of all my mistakes, which is fun. And we talk about making things fun. So I keep stories of times that something wasn't fun or something that was really fun. And that tends to take care of probably 50, 75% of our content. Right. There are those types of stories that don't have to do with teaching, but do have to do with the message we're conveying.

Speaker B: Yeah. In mine. And again, m mine shift over Time, but. But mine often are about questioning the status quo. So again, because I'm constantly asking questions of the conventional wisdom of marketing in our space, and so I come up with all these examples of where ignoring the standard advice outside of business paid off well, and examples of where following the standard advice got me into trouble. So, like, I come up with those stories. Similarly, simplicity is one of mine. That's a lot of my beer stories come from that, because I honestly believe that beer should be simple. But so those are the kinds of things. And you're doing it exactly right. You come up with what are the themes not specific to your business, but overall kind of general themes that you talk about in your messaging or in your content. And then you can come up with a list of stories that are going to fall into those.

Speaker A: I like your subject lines, too. Yeah, let's talk about subject lines, because I like your subject lines, but how important is the subject line? I see in. In business groups, they'll always be like, hey, what subject lines are you guys liking right now? Let's list out our favorite subject lines. Let's talk a little about that.

Speaker B: So, funny story about that. Um, I'm on this. There's a service called Turkel, which is kind of like, help a reporter out if you know that source, where you can, like, respond to people who are looking for sources for answers for, like, stories they're writing. And one of them was, what is a good word that starts with a B for a subject line? Like, literally, this was a question they asked. And so what I did, I literally pulled out my dictionary and I found the first word that starts with ba, B, A A. And that was my response. And I said, because the word doesn't matter, ultimately, it's not a particular word. Your subject lines, uh, I don't want you to think they don't matter at all, but they matter way more for the sequences that people get at the beginning where they're trying to figure out, do I like this Jamie person or not, or do I like this Bobby person or not. Once people get to kind of your weekly emails, if you've done all this other stuff of bring them into your world the right way, they've already made that decision. And what I like to tell people is think about how you go through your personal email inbox. And I'm not just talking about marketing emails. I'm saying just generally, you'll scan through it whenever you check your email. And there's going to be some people where you. I mean, you don't look at the subject line, you look at the name first. And there's some people where when you see that name, you just click it, whether it's a marketer or otherwise. Ultimately what you're trying to do is position yourself in that way where you write really good emails on a regular basis. So people are like, I'm opening this email because it came from Bobby or because it came from Jamie, not because of what the subject line says. Because I know that when Bobby sends me an email 9 times out of 10 or 7 times out of 10, whatever the number is, it's going to have some value for me. That's what you're going for. So that's what I always caution people. If people are only opening your emails because of the subject line, or if the subject line is an important factor on why they're opening your emails week to week, it's a problem. It's a sign that you're not actually delivering great content. So I caveat everything with that. Now, again, like I said the first series, that they're going to get important because they haven't yet figured that out yet. And so you've got to entice them to open it. But once we've gotten that out of the way, now let's talk about how to write a good subject line, how to write that hook. It's going to be something from your story generally. And there's a couple of things. Generally, you should know your audience better than me. I used to try to use their services that use some algorithm, and it has to do with emotion, words and all those things. And the funny thing is, I've split test those, like where mine scored really low and I improved it on theirs and mine always does better because I know my audience, I know how they think. And it's not that, but ultimately you're trying to get some level of curiosity. You want them, you want it to be like they read that subject line and they're like, well, I got to get the answer to that or I've got to figure that out. So like an example that I did one time, I said, how did that get me in trouble? And that was in all caps. And so if you think about your human mind, people are on my list. No, I'm getting in trouble all the time. And they're like, okay, what is this thing that Bobby did? And they just, they need to know it's opening a loop that they want to close. What you'll find my subject lines almost always either are a question that ends in A question mark or it ends in an ellipsis because I'm trailing off a thought. And so that's my style. You don't have to go that route. But when you do, that will lead to a little bit of curiosity. Now, I don't use shock headlines very often. I did that with the I don't like Sweet Baby Jesus. Um, I did it one time where I played a prank on my audience. I rebranded my podcast. So the subject line. But even like the whole email, basically the whole thing was this is the last episode of the online Genius podcast. And so I didn't tell people in the email, I told people later, but they had to go listen to the podcast to realize. But the first episode of my new rebranded podcast will be coming out the next week. So, um, I do things like that. But you should not be trying to trick people. Don't do the re colon and then type a subject line or fwd colon or. Those are obvious. But there's some more subtle ones about our meeting this afternoon, which people use to, like, say, are you coming to the webinar that I've invited you to? I'm like, in normal parlance, no one would say about our meeting this afternoon if I haven't yet signed up for a webinar. But people are doing it and they're doing it to try to trick people. And if that's how you get people to open your emails, it's going to be a problem because you're going to lose trust, you're going to lose any sense that they can believe you. And you don't want that.

Speaker A: Absolutely. So I like to use like a line from my story a lot of times for my subject line because, you know, if I, if I make the subject line, I want a glass of wine. They're like, wow, what's wrong with Jamie? They'll be surprised to learn it's my 3 year old who wants a glass of wine by day. Um, a lot of people in my audience, though, as much as they love to read my story emails, a lot of them are on your list. They love your emails. Here's what they tell me. Nothing interesting ever happens to me. I don't have cool stories, so I can't do that every week. And I know that that's not the case. So you want, you want to handle that one.

Speaker B: So I've told stories about searching the Internet for lice cures because I, uh, got an email from my daughter's school that there was a confirmed case of lice in her class. I've told stories about right before I was going out for my good friends, um, wedding. I was in the wedding party, and before he and I walked out, his dad looked at us and said, we're going to the bathroom. And we said, we don't need to go to the bathroom. He said, you never pass up an opportunity to go to the bathroom again. That was an entire story that I told. But those little moments you can come up with. And again, everybody says, oh, well, Bobby, you're naturally funny. My wife would beg to disagree. My wife would tell you I'm not. That she puts up with me all the time and she doesn't think that I'm a naturally funny person, that I might have one or two funny things I say a week. What happens is you just get good at finding these little moments. And this is where we get meta. Uh, and other people talk about Seinfeld in email, but I really want to drive this point home. Seinfeld, yes. It said it was a show about nothing. I always thought that was kind of silly branding. But they had a whole episode about being lost in a parking garage or a whole episode about waiting in a Chinese food restaurant for your table. There are all of those little moments in life. That's where the magic happens. It's happening to you. Now, if you struggle, if you've done the work of figuring out the themes that you're going to do, like Jamie talked about earlier, what you can do is on a daily basis, a weekly basis, whatever it is, ask yourself a few questions. What did I do this week? Where did I go? Who did I see? And then when you kind of come up with that list, you just quickly go through and say, well, could I use this story? Could it relate to one of my themes? If not, you throw it out. If it could, you add it to a list and then you can kind of do those things. And when you start doing this, you're going to find there are stories everywhere. You don't have to look hard and you'll do that with the current stuff happening now. But long term, what you want to do is actually start to kind of go through your past. Some of my best stories are I tell a story about high school debate. I've told all kinds of different stories from different parts of my life. So different people relate to me on different topics. But for now, just ask yourself on a daily list. And again, if, uh, you're a teacher, I can't believe for a second you don't have some good stories. My daughter says some of the most ridiculous things to me on a regular basis. Like yesterday last night, I was sitting there on the couch, and I said, hey, can you go downstairs and get me one of my seltzers? And she said, I have a very tight schedule. She's on spring break right now. But she declined because she has a very. She's on a very tight schedule. And I'm like, man, I must be doing it wrong because my schedule is way tighter than yours. But again, I'm just saying there are those little things happening every day. You just have to find them and make note of them.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I really struggle if I wait a week, and I'm like, what did I do this week? Actually, there's a teammate who writes, um, a Friday email for me. And every week she sends me a slack that says, jamie, what'd you do this week? And every week I feel all this pressure, like, nothing. If I wait till the end of the week, then, yeah, it's all kind of like I can see it from way up high, but I can't remember the detail. So I've come to know myself. If I think of something I have to. I turn on voxer and I tell the story. It's faster for me than writing it. I get more of my exact words, and my teammates can listen to it.

Speaker B: Voxer be a great way, especially if you have someone else writing it. But a simple way, if you have your phone, I mean, I've got an iPhone. Pull out the notes app. And again, when you're cataloging the story, you don't have to write the whole story. It's just put something that will remind you so that later you can write the story.

Speaker A: I find the stories that. From your past that you really need to remember. Those are tricky. I remember them when I'm having, like, cocktails with my friends. That's usually when the stuff comes out because they're telling you a story of something that happened, and you're like, oh, my God. It reminds me one time when I was in college. Those are the stories. And right then I'm like, wait a second, I got to write this down because this is going to go in an email. And now all my friends know that, hey, Jamie, that's an email. And it's become like, my family and my friends now recognize that their emails. So I want to ask you, like, 50 more questions. But, of course, you know, our time is limited. My favorite part of the book is actually part two. And, um, you're going to have to get the book to read Part two. Because in part two, just my brain loves how actionable it is. You talk about different types of sequences, the nurture sequence, the welcome sequence, the sales sequence, and he literally tells you specific emails that you should write in the order you should put them in. And that feels really easy to me. You, you just made me like a, uh, homework assignment, and now I just have to sort of fill in the blanks with my own voice and my own content. So that's reason enough guys to go grab the book. Especially if you don't even know what the difference between a nurture sequence and a welcome sequence and a sales sequence is, then you really need to go grab the book, because Bobby's going to lay it all out for you. But, uh, if there's one more thing you wanted my audience to know before they jump on Amazon and order your book about email marketing, what would that be?

Speaker B: I mean, I think the big thing is. And again, I want like, yes, part two of the book is like, you'll find a very different tone between part one and part two, because part two gets more tactical and actionable, et cetera versus mindset. So in some sense, in part one, I was a bit more in business, church, at the pulpit, trying to make a point to people. But it's actionable. But I don't want you to get bogged down, like, in the tactics, because, yes, long term, you want to have what I call a catch email, which is how you structure the first email you send to people. Uh, a nurture sequence, a welcome sequence, then your weekly emails, and then your sales sequence. But I'd rather you just start email and just start doing it than waiting until everything is perfect. And so that's the big thing I say. And that's not just email. It's everything. Just get started and understand you're going to have to improve. I mean, I've had to take stories out of sequences. One of my best stories that people reacted to ever, I had to take out because it was not like, it probably was never appropriate. But after George Floyd, it was clearly not appropriate. It was a story of a prank that was pulled on me when I was a prosecutor by some federal agents making me believe they needed my permission to use deadly force. And I mean, uh, it is one of those stories that when I told it, people were like, oh, my, wow. But joking about deadly force with law enforcement isn't funny. And it's one of those things like, you know, you're going to have to change things over time, and your approach is going to change. But the sooner you get started, the sooner you'll be ready to start improving.

Speaker A: So true. I really love that. So tell them the name of the book where they can get it now because y' all need to go out and get it. I'm telling you, it's a good one. It's going to be on my top nonfiction books for this year for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah, so it's email marketing that doesn't suck. Uh, and then there's a subtitle. Have fun writing emails your subscribers will want to read and that will actually make you money. If of course that's what you're after with making money, Bart, you can get it at Amazon. Uh, May 3rd was our release date. Uh, first week. Uh, you can get an ebook for 99 cents. Um, the hard copy, which personally I like hard copy because I like to market these kinds of books up. You can get that as well. It hopefully as this goes live, will be live on Barnes and Noble. If you're a Barnes and Noble people, but person but we have less control over that. We can't save up for 100% but that's where you can do it. But also the book, you know, the book. There's only so much you're going to put in a book. So we are doing a complimentary thing. We have a page bobbyklank.com email and there's a couple of things we're doing over there. But think of that as it's going to be just a hub for all things email from me. So it's going to have a ton of swipe files, something we're calling inside. We call it better than a template. It's about helping you kind of walk through how to write these emails. Uh, also I'm doing an entire podcast series on my podcast. I'm now doing series and we'll have 11 episodes all on that page that you can go through. It's also going to have a ton of written content if you like to read stuff. So that's where you'll be able to get all of, uh, the good stuff. And then as an added bonus, if you grab the book in May, I'm doing a two day event May 25th and 26th virtually. And anyone who's bought the book gets to come for free. Even if it's just a 99 cent ebook, you'll get to come to this. We're going to dive into finding your voice because I know that's what so many people struggle with. We're really going to help people do that work. And it's going to be a working boot camp. So we're going to put people off into groups. And I've already talked to people and I haven't, you know, I'm talking to people who I know who are in my coaching or in my membership or went through the first time I taught in my email marketing course, who I know how to write great emails. And they're going to be spread in the different rooms to make sure that there's people who kind of know this stuff. So hopefully you'll be able to really find and fine tune your voice at that event. So that's my call to action. That's what I'd love for you to do. I'd love to see you writing great emails and making everybody's inbox a little less, uh, sucky.

Speaker A: And there's a cameo appearance in the conclusion of the book by a certain entrepreneur you might know.

Speaker B: That's right. Yeah. And again, I did that. And Jamie, like, I know you're working on your book. It's one of those things you always say, like they give you these kind of structures for things about how you're supposed to write certain parts of your book. And like, part of the conclusion is supposed to give people hope that it's possible for. For them too. And so I had to talk about some of the people that I know who are writing really great emails and listeners. You might know one of them. You might just know one of those people.

Speaker A: Love it. All right, thank you, Bobby, everyone that needs to go off and get the book. Thank you for joining us. And make sure you head over to his website to get all the other extra goodies after you order the book.

Speaker B: Been my pleasure.

Speaker A: Would you like more business growing tips and a peek behind the the scenes of Jamie's wildly successful business? Be sure to check her out on Instagram at. Ah, not so wimpy entrepreneur.