Leading with Support, Not Just Accountability, Pt. 2

looking for something worthwhile to listen to this summer catch up on next man up the mcell podcast with your host kareem thomas hear honest conversations with inspiring educational leaders as they share their journeys challenges and leadership lessons if an episode resonates with you don't keep it to yourself tell a friend share it with a colleague and help us spread the word new episodes powerful stories meaningful conversations start listening today next man up the mcell podcast with your host kareem thomas now back to part two of our conversation on next man up the mcell podcast two accomplished educational leader, two newly appointed superintendent.

One important question, who has the principal's back? Join host Kareem Thomas as he continues an engaging conversation with Dr. Ariel Lahara, the newly appointed superintendent of Vineland Public Schools, and Dr. Rennie Lahara, the newly appointed superintendent of Bethlehem Area School District.

In this episode, they discuss what principals truly need from district leadership, how principal supervisors can create the conditions for school leaders to thrive, and why supporting principals is one of the most important investments a district can make. If you lead leaders or aspire to, you won't want to miss this conversation. Now, here's part two of Who Has the Principals Back? On Next Man Up, the MSL podcast with your host, Kareem Thomas.

Ariel, what happens? I guess this question is for actually for either one of you in every school district. There's things that come down the pike from central office that you may not personally agree with. And it happens all the time.

And you have to sell these things to your principals. And they may not agree with those things, too. They actually share your point of view. How do you move your feelings from it?

And even though, you know, it may not be the best thing in your opinion and their opinion as well. but you still are able to sell it so that it gets done and you're doing what, you know, central office asked you to do. Absolutely. And I'll caveat to what I said earlier.

If the rapport with the leader is not there, and it's ironic because I'm literally communicating with a leader today around some budget deficiencies, fun, they know that it's not coming from you. But the important part of our role is that we can't sit there and allow central offers or anyone else to own that. We need to own that decision. Whether we made that decision or not, you need to own it and you need to be able to stand by it.

And then prior to that is ensuring that you have the relationship and rapport to have a courageous conversation, even though it's difficult, but also to create a normative culture within your network that we had to set non-closure at times. And that's something that you do with multiple at-backs. I do not advise anyone to start building that culture when it's needed. You have to start building that culture day one, where it's like, hey, we're going to run into these type of things.

And that could be with a student, with a parent, with a community member, with a colleague, creating the conditions for us to be able to agree to disagree, to accept non-closure, to be even upset at a systemic concern, but also understand that what we get paid to do is to forge a path forward and to defy obstacles. And something that I tell my leaders all the time, especially the ones that are more novice that I'm coaching now is adaptive leadership is at an all-time premium.

We're consistently adapting to what's going on. The last couple of years, we've adapted to remote learning. We've been open-minded to an equity office. We are navigating a school closure.

We are navigating budget deficiencies. But at the end of the day, the number one resource will continue to be teachers and leaders within the school district and not over-relying on a decision, but more relying on how can I adapt? How can I ensure that the stakeholders I have at my disposal, I'm creating pathways for them to be successful? But more importantly than anything, Kareem, is how does this impact students?

And how do we ensure that every system we have translates the student outcome. I guess that's just so difficult, right? Because there are, and it's just like, it's just continuously like changing all the time. There's always something new that has to be implemented, right?

Because there could be one thing in September and then by June, something totally different. How do you feel like you're able to support principals with just that ever evolving change that happens within school districts? Yeah. So I think that to your point, change is inevitable and we're all experiencing that, Right.

So the one thing that talking about adaptive leadership that I missed was that we just brought in three brand new curriculums in the last four years. Right. ELA curriculum. I mean, math curriculum first, ELA now and then this year science.

Right. And, you know, you feel like you're just getting a grasp on the math curriculum. And now here comes the ELA curriculum. You feel like you're getting your feet under you in the ELA.

And now here comes the science curriculum. So through all that, I think that by building trust and a culture of collaboration, and collegiality where, and a safe space is important, right? A safe space to let people get their frustrations out about whatever initiative it is. Let's put it out there because to your point, I might feel the same way you do, but I built that trust with my leaders that we can all say that in a safe room.

But at the end of the day, we got to get this work done. It's the initiative and the expectation of the school district and the superintendent and the board for us to implement these programs. And it's our job to do that, whether we agree with it or not. And at the end of the day, it's at the behest of our young people.

And, you know, whether we agree with it or not, I think it's building that culture of trust and building that safe space where, you know, you know, get it all out, you know, nice words, bad words, whatever you have to say, get it all out. And then, but at the end of the day, we have a mission and we have a goal and we got to meet that goal together. You know, we got to lock arms and do it together. And throughout the entire thing, one, what you started this with, I got your back and I'll support you in whatever way I can to make sure that you're successful in whatever it is, whatever initiative it is that we're doing, whether it's new or it's an old initiative.

How do you know, and this is for either of you, how do you know when a principal is in trouble? And what I mean by that is physically their health may be suffering or they're just overwhelmed and you can see it when you talking to them or you visiting their school and you just can tell you know I can see it sometimes in coaching sessions This person is in trouble and you know you can kind of foresee that something bad could potentially happen if they don do X Y or Z So how do you support someone in it when you can see that there's clearly something that's going on?

You have to intervene immediately at that time. And I'll give you a few scenarios and examples just to be able to articulate what exactly, how exactly that shows up. And for me, it is before I start any meeting or any engagement with a school leader, the first five to 10 minutes is what I call pleasantries. And through the pleasant, if we can't get past the pleasantries, then I don't get into the work.

And that can be a mid-year observation. That could be a school walkthrough. I first try to get a temperature check on how we're engaging and where the principal is at at the current moment. If we can't get past that initial stage, no matter how high stakes the job is or the mission is at that moment, we're going to pause that because mental health and overall health is at an all-time high, specifically in the climate that we're in.

And it could be political climate, financial climate. People are juggling so much. Also, through the grace of God, all three of us on this podcast right now, we've had experience of leading schools and we know how challenging it could be. I continue to say that the most difficult job in a district will always be the principal ship because it's the only position that touches every programmatic office a district has to offer literally on a daily basis.

So having that mental fortitude to be able to do that is important. Having the emotional intelligence to say, you know what? You're not good right now. It's time to say, hey, I want you to go home.

No, I'm going to push through. No, no, no. I'm not asking. You need to go home.

You need to go to the hospital. You need to go take care of yourself. Hey, I see that something's happening in your household. We'll take care of that.

And something my cousin Renny and I do, and Renny does wonderfully, is he'll tell a principal that, and then he'll sit in that principal's school for a day or two if he has to, to make sure that you're not leaving, but then still mentally engaged with what's going on at your school. That's a conversation that I have with leaders all the time. If you're taking off, you better not call me. You better not text me.

You better not email me because this is not just a day off. This is a mental health day. And I want you to go cater to your mental health. So when you come back, you can be all you can be.

Every email I send principles at the end of the week, it ends with you need to pour it back into your own cup. Because come Monday, everybody's looking for an ounce of that cup again. And if you're not at full or over capacity, you're going to be giving something to someone that you don't. You're not even giving to yourself at the moment.

But like the perfect segue is, man, my cousin Randy, he's amazing at that. He'll make sure that you don't think about what's happening at your school because he's there front and center to hold it down. Right, cuz? Yes, sir.

And that's I think that, you know, what's what my leaders appreciate about me is that I'm always worried about the human side. Right. And, you know, I don't know if you heard Kareem, but I suffered a heart attack two years ago, man, in doing his work. So when I tell a principal like, hey, man, you need to take care of yourself, they understand where it's coming from.

and it's coming from a place of love, respect, and at the end of the day, support. They know that if they're feeling some type of way or they need to take off, you're not going to be looked at any differently. I got you. If you got to take off, and sometimes it's hard to get a substitute principal to come in and lead your school.

And a lot of principals worry about that. They don't take off because of that. We always talk about teachers giving up control when they're teaching because they're afraid to let students talk to themselves because they don't want to give of that control and they're afraid what's going to happen. Principals are the same way.

You know how we are, man. Our schools are our classrooms pretty much. And we take that to heart and we want our schools to be the best. And we get defensive when you talk about our school in a negative way because we want our place to be the best place ever.

So, you know, if there's an incident, if I can't be there the very same day, I'm there the very next day to make sure that you're all right. Because a lot of our principals go through traumatic situations, man, and nobody checks on. Everybody worries about the students and what happens to them and the families. And that should be our primary focus.

But the principals are the ones that carry all that weight. And a lot of times they don't have anybody to say, hey, man, are you OK? You know, can I help you? Or, you know, I just had one of my principals lose a second grade student.

She wasn't well, but still it's a death. And the students were traumatized by it. The teachers were traumatized by it. And the principal, because she knew the student very well.

And as soon as she called me in the morning, she was hysterical. You know, I lost a second grade student. I said, I got you. Don't worry about it.

Called my whole network. We got a group chat. Hey, if you guys can spare your counselor, please send them over. I had about eight counselors there.

You know, I went in and wrote the letter for the principal that was going to be sent out to the families. Just taking everything off her place so that she could focus on the well-being of her students and making sure that she was there for her students. But then, you know, it's the follow-up and making sure, hey, you know, are you okay? You know, take the next day off.

You got to come in late. Don't worry about it. I got you. I'll be there holding it down until you get there because at the end of the day, man, our folks are human too, man.

And they go through a lot. And as Ariel said, they go through not only their personal stuff at home, but then you're the parent of 300, 400, 500, you know, a thousand kids. And they all depend on you. And, you know, you got to be sharp and you got to be at your best.

And you're not going to be good if you're sick or you're not doing well for yourself. And then now you're out for three or four months and now you can't be the leader that you want to be because you let those little things add up at the end. Yeah, Renny, you kind of touched on what I wanted to like segue into the last couple of questions before we start to wrap this up. These jobs are high stress level jobs, right?

And then we know men of color, we got high blood pressure, we got high cholesterol, we got all the things that we don't need to have. And so the question for both of you is with such a high stress level job, how do you take care of yourselves to just ensure that you're can be the best version of you? that I will call it everyday tasks. And for me, it's knowing that I need to hit the gym up two, three times a week.

My walks two, three times a week. Also, I downloaded the column app. That's something that I do at a very high rate, 10 minutes. And if I can't find time, I'll do it in my car right before I go into a building, which could be a high stress situation.

Also, something I picked up is contrast therapy, where I do sauna, a combination of sauna, and cold plunging. You have to have multiple outlets. Can't rely just on one because at any given moment you might be pulled from that, but you need alternative mental health and overall health situations. But also something, you know, something that I'm open about therapy, something that I try to do on a biweekly basis You have to have multiple outlets And more importantly you have to be courageous and bold about these outlets Something that I do with my network is I openly talk about mental health I openly talk about the different outlets that I have to normalize for people, specifically for people of color, where it took me decades to have the capacity to say, you know what, I am going to go into therapy.

It took me decades to say, hey, you know what? Yeah, it might sound like this costs $200, $300, but I'm investing in myself because I'm so prone to invest in others. A lifetime of wealth of knowledge has allowed me to understand that the most important vessel I have is myself. And if I'm not pouring into myself, I really can't pour into others.

So I'm going to drop a gem right here, man, because you know, Kareem, when we go to leadership convening, they always give us free stuff, right? So they gave us a book called The Miracle Morning. It's a yellow book. You got to have it somewhere around there, but nobody ever read it.

So yeah, There you go. Right with it. There you go. So have you read it?

I just got it today. Oh, look at that, man. So listen, that book changed my life, bro. Wow.

So I said, you know what? My wife and I were looking for stuff to read because I listened to a lot of motivational speakers. And Jim Rohn, R-O-H-N, he's an amazing speaker, man. And he talks about the 10 habits that you should do daily to level up.

And he talks about reading. He talks about journaling, the people that you hang around with, exercising, you know, talking about a lot of those things. But so I say, you know, let me start reading. So I grabbed that book.

It was just lying around. And I remember I brought two home and I gave one to my wife. So we were both reading it. I got way into it.

You know, she stopped reading after like the first chapter, but I got way into it and learned a lot, man. So what he says is, is that a lot of us are asking for time, right? Like Ariel said, if I don't have the time. And so what I started doing is he says, whatever time you wake up, wake up one hour earlier than that.

And you got to train yourself to do that. And it takes 30 days, 21 days for you to create a habit, 30 days to perfect it. But if you do something for 21 days, you'll be able to continue it. Right.

So he says, take an hour and it's called savers. So silence, which is meditation for 10 minutes. And I use the Calm Map too. So 10-minute meditation, 10-minute affirmation, 10-minute to visualize your day and your goals, what it is that you're going to do for the day, 10-minute to exercise, 10-minute to read, and then 10-minute to scribe, which is to write.

So he needed to have the acronym SAVERS. And let me tell you, man, that has changed my life completely, man. So I wake up at 5 a.m.

now, and I get as many of those things done as I can before my wife leaves to work. and then after she leaves to work, it's normally around 6, 6, 10. And then I go for, it says a 10-minute walk, but I go for a 45-minute walk around my neighborhood. Then I get back and I actually have weights at home and then I do, I weight lift in the morning as well.

And I've been doing that for a good two months. But let me tell you what's changed my life completely, man, is journaling. And people don't believe in it, but do it. I did it consistently for 30 days.

and all you do is just write about whatever thoughts you have, whether negative, positive, your goals, what you're grateful for, what you're going through that day, what needs to happen that day, your calendar, I got a business schools, whatever. But that to me, that's my therapy. Instead of talking to somebody else, you actually talking to yourself and just, because a lot of times we hold it in, but scribe it, writing it, you let it out. So So, you know, that book changed my life, man.

And I and, you know, and I live by it. Well, we got a few days that I don't have anything planned over this break. And it's an easy read, man. It's an easy read.

Read it. So this last question for this and then we'll end with it was with something fun. Tell me what advice would you give to anyone that's a principal or maybe even central office that is looking for their next thing? Right.

They want to elevate their career to the next level. What advice would you one piece of advice would you give them? What's something that they should be working on to make that next move? I was saying, and it's something that I've always done at every position before I attempt them is to ensure that you're asking your immediate supervisor, take on some of the tasks that they're doing.

You can begin to understand not only how to perform the task at a high level, but to see how that task impacts you, whether it's a positive way or negative way, or is it too overwhelming? me. And then that allows you to differentiate between, hey, I want elevation, but does it need to be in this space? Or, hey, I actually got a lot out of that.

And I say that that's my advice because you have to put in so much in this role that you have to ensure that you feel really good about doing that work because it's going to cost time, affection, patience, love, and so many other different things that at times, if you don't navigate it correctly, can deplete you. So pick on a few of the tasks, see how it makes you feel, see what type of joy you get from the impact that you're doing it. And then also be patient enough to understand that everything happens in God's time.

We might want something, but the universe might protect you from it at this very moment to ensure that you are emotionally and mentally available to give that precision all that you got. So Les Brown says it's better to be prepared for an opportunity and not get one than to get an opportunity to not be prepared. Right. So I always say, you know, whatever it is, the next level it is that you're looking for, there's plenty of books.

There's plenty of experiences that you can get. There's plenty of research out there for you to start preparing yourself. And that's what I would say, whatever position it is that you're looking for or whatever the next level is, is really immerse yourself in, as Ariel says, what it entails and really do your research and start to read up on it because it's, you know, somebody else's life's work is put in a book and you don't have to create, reinvent the wheel when you're going into a new position because somebody's already done it.

So tap into those people and to those resources, you know, to make yourself the most marketable person out there. It's now time for the top three. So this is my favorite question of every episode. So there is a dinner and you are allowed to bring three guests to the dinner and the guests can be dead or alive who are you bringing the dinner that's a really good question there kareem and to limit it to three it's a challenge but for me thinking about the first one it'll be my dad it'll be my dad so he have a front seat at that dinner but also the man has so much institutional knowledge and and so much sweat equity knowledge that I combining his thoughts and his mind with where we at in society right now could be powerful Someone else for me would be John F Kennedy and not for what other people might idolize, but for a specific thing that he did was with the Peace Corps.

And knowing that my country was still a third world country, but in that era, such in a bad space, the joy that I've seen in Dominicans and other foreigners talk about, hey, how these peace courts came over there and they provided food and refuge and things of that nature. I would love to tap into the courage that it took to do something that was out of the norm for the betterment of people. And then my third person would be the founder of my fraternity, Omega South Five, the graduate advisor, Dr.

Just, to just pick his brain on the courage it takes to start a organization with undergraduate members to understand that hey we're doing something that my wildest dream i'm not going to imagine it yet where this can go well all three of these people have something in common to me is building a vessel that you understand that your life's work is for somebody else's benefit not for yours so i think that'll be a, that'll round up a pretty good scenario for me at a dinner table.

Yeah. So it's hard, man. So I would definitely, you know, as Ariel said, I would bring my dad, man, because he didn't get the opportunity to really see me flourish in my career. You know, he passed right when I became a principal, but he didn't get to see, you know, the fruits of it.

And, you know, he didn't get to see my, you know, my sons grow up. And I definitely wanted to see the fruits of his labor, man, and bringing us to the United States to live the American dream. The second person would be my brother, George. He was one of the first immediate family members that we lost to cancer.

He's only 34 years old, man. And he was somebody very integral in my life, man, that saved my life a couple of times in the streets. Was the one that kept me going in terms of baseball, man. And he was like, look, you don't have to do what I do.

You don't have to be in the street. Stay in education and I got whatever you need. I got you. And he did that for me, man.

And the last one, I'm really a huge historian, man. So I would probably like to bring in somebody from the Roman times, like a Marcus Aurelius or something like that, man. Just how they built the Roman Empire and all those architectural designs and stuff that they did, it always fascinated me, man. Because that took a lot of planning.

And in that day and age to build things like that, like the Colosseum, which is something that's on my bucket list. It's something that I definitely would love to have them at a dinner table, man, to have them explain how that happened. Two great dinners. Rennie, I'm surprised that you didn't.

I thought you were going to name a baseball player. I figured that you were going to have a league ball-fifth player at the dinner. Nah, nah, man. Rennie's met plenty of years.

Too many today, man. I think he's got some man. He had to go to the hospital for buddies. I think he could go to the hospital for a computer lab to the school.

So I think Renny's had his fair share with these. So to help keep the podcast going, I always ask my guests at the end of each episode to tell me who they think is the next man up, who would be a great guest to have on the podcast? Somebody that is in a similar role as us that I've grown fond of is Dr. Edwin Casada, executive director for Philadelphia Academy of School Leaders, man.

it's a beautiful thing when you get to see somebody that's been this successful but remains that humble that wants to continue to lift as he climbs but for rennie and i it's even more heartfelt because our families all come from the same exact small part of the minicum republic called villatabia and ironically something super cool is rennie's brother actually did k to eight with him and then my dad and his uncle were best friends so what all that came to life and I realized how six degrees of separation is actually the truth I think he'll be somebody super dope man a man of color that has accomplished so many things but consistently continues to give back to the people and the constituents now in Philadelphia by way of New York so I think he'll be a super cool guest Green that must be really a sign for me to have him to invite him on to the podcast because I just recorded an episode on Saturday and literally he was the next man up that someone recommended for the conference oh there you go man that was this is confirmation right there yes sir i agree 100 with that randy you have someone that you would say is the next man up the person that i would say uh next man up and that left philly early and didn't get the recognition that he should have is dr pedro rivera who was the secretary of education for a minute and he's now the president of thaddeus stevens man he's doing a lot of great work over there.

Definitely, he increased enrollment, I believe, by like 3,000 students, man, since he's gotten there. And he's doing a lot of work with those trades and getting all young people ready for the trade field out there, man. So he would definitely be somebody that I would recommend for the next man up. Well, one thing is clear after today's conversation that supporting principals isn't just about supervision.

It's about stewardship and building meaningful relationships. I want to thank my guests for their honesty, their leadership, and for reminding us that having someone's back at the systems level requires both accountability and care. Rennie and Ariel, thank you again for joining me on this episode of Next Man Up, the M-Cell Podcast. Thank you, brother.

Appreciate you. Thank you so much, brother. And all of you, as always, we appreciate you listening. Until the next time, take care.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Next Man Up, the M-Cell Podcast with your host, Kareem Thomas. This conversation marks the first in an upcoming series exploring a question that doesn't get asked nearly enough. Who has the principal's back? Throughout this series, we'll hear from educational leaders and trusted partners as we examine the support systems, relationships, and leadership practices that help principals navigate one of the most challenging and rewarding roles in education.

we'll have honest conversations about mentorship, coaching, wellness, accountability, resilience, and the importance of not leading in isolation. If today's episode sparked a thought or resonated with your own leadership journey, we encourage you to continue the conversation. Share this episode with a colleague, tell a friend, and help us spread the word so these important discussions reach even more leaders. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the rest of this special series and all the conversations still to come.

Thanks for listening to Next Man Up, the M-Cell podcast with your host, Kareem Thomas.