Ben Robles Acosta, Director & Producer of Family Film Productions

Speaker A: Hello, I'm Kerry Wootton, the host of the Media Careers podcast. This is the place where you can hear from people working across the film, TV and broadcast sectors and, and the stories of how they got into the industry. Please do press subscribe so you can always hear when a new episode is released. A ah, huge thanks as always to our partners into film supported by the BFI awarding National Lottery funding. If there ever was a definition of resilience and finding a way to just do it, then it would be Ben Robles Acosta. Ben is the director and um, producer of family film productions. From navigating an education and career that his parents wanted for him to through to directing his own feature, Ben has had to keep his heart and drive to build his career in the film industry. He has kept persevering, talking to people and making the right decisions when needed for where he wanted his career to go. I absolutely love chatting with Ben. There are so many lessons about building a career in the film industry that we can all learn from here. Please do go and check out his feature when it's released. It's called My Conversations with Death and, and also his short which you can see now breaking the kingdom. Here's Ben. Ben, really lovely to meet you and uh, welcome to the Media Careers podcast.

Speaker B: Thank you so much. It's so nice to be here.

Speaker A: Uh, oh, looking forward to chatting with you today.

Speaker B: Likewise. Yeah, I think it'll be a good, productive meeting.

Speaker A: Yeah. Good. So we, as we were just saying before we started recording on this podcast, have the very long standing tradition where we rewind, go all the way back to the beginning to find out what someone was like as a child and a young person. So do you have any recollections of what you were like as a kid?

Speaker B: Uh, yes, just very open, outward going and just keen on I guess learning as much as I can about the world around us and also like the, the lovely city that we call London. And I just felt like, so open to any opportunities that came my way. Uh, I grew up in London in central London by Paddington.

Speaker A: Okay. Right in the heart of it, literally.

Speaker B: Yeah. And uh, again I would, I would just be open to meeting so many different people from walks of life because uh, I went to Holland Park School as a secondary school comprehensive. It was very liberal at the time. There was no uniforms. Yeah. And it was like an advocate of Tony Ben's like left leaning political, uh, like advocate of like the arts and seeing what, what people were m interested in and what, what the school system could offer. So I was very much like anything that came my way. And I, again, I have to thank my parents who are just so open to pushing me in all directions. It was never really, uh, film or even media at the time of being in secondary school. Just more like whatever comes your way, just see it, See if it, See if it fits for you. See if you like it and then take it from there.

Speaker A: That's an amazing attitude to have, isn't it? Just kind of embrace. Embrace the world and what comes your way and what. What you like.

Speaker B: I love that pretty much.

Speaker A: And were you. And were you academic then? Did kind of studying kind of come naturally to you or.

Speaker B: I think, uh, in a weird way, like, uh, I. I'm a foreigner, so I came from, um. My dad's from Peru, Latin America, and my mom is from Bulgaria. So I'm a bit of a mix.

Speaker A: I was gonna say. That's a. That's a good combo.

Speaker B: It's nice, it's interesting, but it means you're very open to, like, different ways of life, different cultures. So, um, going back to your question, uh, like English wasn't my first language and neither was like, education, uh, system. Like things are different back at home. I came when I was four.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And then just picking things up. So education was like something that I had to grasp. Uh, like picking up the English language and then academics weren't something I was naturally, um, good at, but I, again, with the help and support of school and my parents, it's like push yourself and having that go to mentality. You can make anything achievable if you put your mind to it. So going to my GCSes, I, I like, did very well across the board, but no real, like outstanding subjects. It was like five. Five A's, five B's.

Speaker A: Mhm. And so good qualifications.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was good.

Speaker A: It was good.

Speaker B: But there was nothing like. I think what I'm trying to say is. Nothing specifically good. Yeah, I was aiming for just a generic all round.

Speaker A: Yeah. That you're trying to get a good education. I suppose you were trying to do well across the board, which sounds like you did. I mean, A's and B's. I mean, that's phenomenal. Really. Phenomenal. And what about when you were going on to A levels? Did you have anything in particular in mind about what you might. A. What you might do as a career at that point, but then also what you might go on and study?

Speaker B: So it's funny enough, uh, as I was saying, like, looking at opportunities and what came my way I, I remember at GCSE I was really open to uh, drama.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I love the spontaneity of, of improvisation and like just being, being able to play in a classroom outside of like the books and writing. And I really enjoyed that aspect of um, of learning, I guess, like, you know, like picking a partner, creating a scene and, and I, again, I knew nothing about film and TV and I wasn't educated in what, how you break down a film or cameras, uh, or any of that. It was just pure drama. Pure like uh, emotion and carrying a character very, very, very basic. And I think I pick up, I picked up on that joy of just being free in that element, in that moment and playing well, creatively playing with your peers. So I think I caught that little, very little acting bug, wanting to explore that further.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Um, and what happened was my parents said no. They're like, no, you have to be.

Speaker A: Did they?

Speaker B: Yeah, you have to be uh, like productive. You have to look at your career, you know, going forward from. At this age. Like sixth form A level is a big step. Mhm. And they, they kind of put it to the side. And again, like I was coming from a foreigner's background. You kind of listen to your parents in, In A. And again, I love them to bits. I don't take anything that they've done for me like as a negative, but I had to like subdue myself to what their interests for me were best.

Speaker A: Yeah. Did they have particular career paths in mind for you at that point?

Speaker B: I think, I think they just wanted steady, stable. Uh, they didn't really specify anything particular, but more like an office job, something corporate.

Speaker A: Right. Okay.

Speaker B: Uh, and again, they knew I could do it. I still believe like if that's where my heart lied, that's where I could have been.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, but uh, yeah, the creativity was kind of like put down a bit. Okay, please, just, just, you know, you can have fun in the classes that are available, but stick to, stick to

Speaker A: the core subjects pretty much. So I was gonna say, what did you do then?

Speaker B: At A level, I ended up doing psychology, government and politics and economics.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Yeah. Literally what the parents wanted, and my mum was do like geography. I think geography is like again, they were like very advocative, very like on my case, but in a very positive way, like supportive way.

Speaker A: Well, and ultimately they wanted the best for you. Right. They wanted you to, they wanted you to have a solid income and to um, and to be secure in your future. So. And that's, you know, they're, they're Valid, you know, valid concerns for that, you know, children. So.

Speaker B: Totally.

Speaker A: Because also drama, I think particularly those kind of creative subjects. Many still do think that they're, I'm, um, going to put this inverted comment as like wishy washy and don't have that kind of solid career path and if you want to act and things and so.

Speaker B: Totally agree.

Speaker A: And so there is still that fear that they're not careers, when actually, you know, many, many people go on to have careers, as we know, in the creative sector. So it's a. And it contributes. I think I was looking at the other day, 13.1 billion a day to the equator, you know, to the economy.

Speaker B: You know, it's incredible.

Speaker A: Like the money is insane. But anyway, we're going off tangent.

Speaker B: No, no, no. Very interesting.

Speaker A: So how. So did you carry on any acting while you were doing your A level and things? Did that kind of creative side kind of come out in other ways?

Speaker B: Yeah, I did try. I did try to join like theater groups. I remember trying to join like weekend activities with like learning how to. I was more interested in improvisation. I think the, uh, line learning and all of that, uh, character building was completely, again, something that I wasn't that into. But then I remember, you know, I would get. I was getting to like, teenager, late teenager, looking at university, and I was slowly starting to rebel. I think my rebellion as a teenager came much later.

Speaker A: And was it always a plan that you were going to go to university? And did you want. Yeah, it was. And did you want to. Was it something.

Speaker B: I felt like I wanted to be either the best of the best to prove to my parents I can do it and that, uh, you know, okay, fine, you're putting me in this, in this position, I might as well be the best I can be at it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: And then the other side was like, well, other friends are just like, doing what they want. They don't really care much about their lives. They just want to live, live for now. And so I was looking at, uh, universities. I like drama schools. I was really in and open. But then the second the parents found out, no, no application. It was a constant battle. It was hard.

Speaker A: And I think. You know what? Thank you. Ah, first, thank you for sharing that because there will be other people. And as you know, this podcast is aimed at young people trying to navigate careers in the industry, but there will be young people listening who have that same challenge right now and, and who will be told that actually the creative industries aren't for you and they aren't. And There aren't solid career paths there, and it doesn't make enough money and et cetera, et cetera. So do you have any advice when you pass a young person listening to this, who's navigating that with their parents? Having been through it yourself, what advice would you give to them to.

Speaker B: Sorry. I would say if you really want to do it, you have to show, I guess, your parents or your peers that you want to do it. You can't just talk about it. You have to go out and do it wherever space or. Or free time you have. If you want to be a director, you know, you're learning, pick up a camera and try and film something that you can edit together. You know, it's harder to prove that you want to do something if you're just talking about it. It's better to show people you can do.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then that will give the trust in you at that age, saying, okay, I trust in what he can do or she can do. Let's give him that chance to do it. Let's push them in that way. Uh, and again with fairy tale drama. In my case, like, it was so in the moment. If you're not there to watch me, like, perform, you. You miss out on it. So, yeah, I was kind of like, yeah, on the back foot of it all. Um, but anyway, I think, yeah, I think you have to really push and put the work in. I think work is so important, like what you see on tv, like the actors or the directors that actually do make it. You don't realize how much time and effort has gone into actually making that happen.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's huge. Right?

Speaker B: Huge.

Speaker A: Lot of thought. Uh, so did you end up at university then?

Speaker B: I did, I did. I kind of went halfway with my parents. I did geography in Spanish, studied. Oh, my goodness, this is very, very good.

Speaker A: Which uni did you go to?

Speaker B: I went to Queen Mary University of London again. I just wanted to stay in London.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So just to backtrack a bit. I remember you said, giving advice. Another point of advice I would say is it's not too late. If you're a youngster or a teenager. And you, again, you're in my shoe, similar to my shoes, where you keep getting told, no, no, you want. I think there is no rush. I know I've heard of many students say, like, if you take a gap year, if you take a deferred year, it's too late for you. You're not. You're not keeping in line with everyone else. Your. Your, um, you know, your Peers and people go above you. I think it's never too late to. To pick up what you want to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, I 100% agree with that. I think there is. Particularly at that age, there is. There is a lot of talk of you're getting behind, you're not progressing as much. There is. And, uh. And what. As soon as you leave university, if you do go down that path, that all changes anyway because you all. You will disappear into different jobs and different careers and like, that all changes. And your career just. Everybody's path is totally different, totally wiggly. Nobody has. Nobody does. A, B, C, D, E. Nobody does. And, um, you don't remain, I think, because we're so programmed in education. Here we go. Year one, year two, year three, four. Yeah, you will just go up together. That then it's almost kind of ingrained in our head that that must be the way that your career goes too. And actually that's not true, is it? And actually, sometimes that added life experience, if it is a year out or if you have done something else, just adds to. Particularly in this industry and if you want to be creative to creative storytelling and.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah. Sorry, I've just gone off on one.

Speaker B: I totally agree with you. It only brings more like, character to what you're going to bring to the table.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So thank you for that. That's really. It's really helpful. So uni life. What was uni life like, Ben?

Speaker B: Oh, uh, uni was a mess. I did not like it.

Speaker A: Did you not?

Speaker B: No, I mean, it was more like I was. Again, I was frustrated. I wasn't doing what I really wanted to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's hard, right?

Speaker B: M. It's very hard. You kind of like, obviously, like the social element was cool, meeting people and you meet so many more people, different walks of life. Not from your bubble of your area or the sixth one come from. Um, but again, it was like I didn't really want to do it. I was trying to prove to my parents I could do it. And I was just. I was just. I just thought this sounds really bad and I love them and I think they'll laugh at this, but it felt like a little like a sentence in jail, you know, just get the grades and leave. And I think the reason why I picked the Spanish studies, because I got to spend a year abroad.

Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Get away, travel. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: It's like a constant, like, back and forth, uh, battle. But I got. I got through it. I, uh, did well at university and then that's the point where I was like, you said, like, you're free to do what you want. And again, with the grades and the degree that I had, I said, I don't want to do anything corporate. I don't want to do anything like a teacher, like a vote vocation. So I thought, let me try and hit the media head on. And by that time I was already like learning more about film studies. I was learning about, um, amateur direct, uh, directing, um, low budget filmmaking. This is all in my, like, spare time. Yeah. Just meeting people outside of uni because I think my interest was more in how do you go about making a film. How did you go about, you know, rehearsals with actors? I like all these little bits you'd see on, on films and behind the scenes on the DVDs.

Speaker A: Yeah, all of that.

Speaker B: They're not around anymore. We're not really. But yeah, all of those things gave me that passion that I think this is something that I want to explore as much as I can. Um, and so, yeah, so once I graduated, I actually was able to find again a middle ground with me and my parents and I was able to join the Walt Disney Company as a Disney channels program scheduler. I don't think they're around anymore.

Speaker A: Okay, your schedulers will still be around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Disney plus.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Scheduling for Disney channels across Emea.

Speaker A: Was that your entry, your first job then out of uni?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Was it? That's quite. That is quite a match in the middle. I mean. Yeah, kind of that corporate setting, a big company brand that your parents will

Speaker B: be proud of to an extent.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, not a lot to do with geography in Spanish unless you're doing it in Spanish.

Speaker B: But no, I mean, I even pushed for it. Like, do you want me to help in the Spanish territories, though? No, no, it' covered. Stick to, stick to the role that we give you. Again, very corporate. Very.

Speaker A: Yeah, stick in your lane.

Speaker B: Yeah. But, um, but sorry, I did. That was my first ever job from graduation, but I was unemployed for a bit and I was doing a bit of volunteering, looking at, like, ways I can develop myself. And I did do a, um. And this is through, funny enough through the job center because I was unemployed for like one year.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: 12 to 16 months. I think it's just over a year. Uh, I did a internship with a, um, a boutique agency in soho.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And that was really. It was only for six months, but it wasn't paid. Like the job center kept paying you for going.

Speaker A: Right. Okay.

Speaker B: Didn't get their pay.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it felt very much like an entry level, like a runner. Your front of house, which is really nice. You got to meet the clients of the agency and you got to. Yeah. Hod. So like, editors, some directors, a lot of writers, uh, production designers that this agency would look after right in the

Speaker A: heart of soho as well. Amazing.

Speaker B: And grabbing wines for the team.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sure.

Speaker B: Yeah. Very SoHo way of life. It was very fun. And I'd learn a lot about, you know, how Soho works. The post houses, the production companies doing errands for, uh, the team, uh, grabbing magazines. They were very much into, like, new way, new new art forms, like, ah, very specific fashion style magazines. And again, this is. I know, I know. I might maybe jumping ahead, but it's what a lot of what runners do.

Speaker A: M. Yeah.

Speaker B: They grab errands. They do what's needed either on set or off, you know, being in a production house. And I loved it. I really enjoyed it. But again, speaking to the agents, I realized how hard it is. They said, well, we don't. Again, they were very open, um, and like, honest. They said by the end of it, they're like, we can't really keep employing you because we don't have the money to pay for you. You're here because of the job center's

Speaker A: initiative, so there was no option for

Speaker B: them to take you on board, which is a shame.

Speaker A: Yeah, that is a shame. That's really harsh.

Speaker B: But again, I kept looking, I kept pushing. And then somehow I found a contact, uh, who was uh, like a creative. He was a creative, not employer, but, like, he would help in the creative art section of the job center. So I'd go again, thanks to my parents pushing me to, like, take any opportunity you can. Grab it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And run with it. Um, I met someone in the job center who was very much like, there's. There's a lot of creative corporate work for you if you want it. I know, I know. A HR lady and itv. Then she moved to Disney, and then I interviewed with her.

Speaker A: Right, okay.

Speaker B: And. And then that's how I got into scheduling.

Speaker A: That's amazing. That is amazing. And all credit to the. Because that doesn't happen either. I don't think in job centers enough where you do have those specialists, sector specialists that can then go. Actually, I know I was unemployed for a while, and I definitely didn't give that. In fact, I. I think I was told, well, you're just kind of on your own. We can't help you. So that's amazing. That they did.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah. And how cool is that? Walt Disney as well. Like, what an amazing.

Speaker B: It was a good start. And again, this is my inner battle with myself and my parents. I did six to eight months happily enjoying the job, loving the perks of the company and what comes with it. And then I realized, like, I think you hit coming up to a year, nine, ten months in, you're like, this is it. This is your. You're going around the mill. You're doing the same thing every day. You're clocking in, clocking out. And again, it works for some people because you look at the. You look at opportunities that the company can give you. Uh, the security. Exactly. The pay.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: After you. And then I just thought, this cannot be it. This, like, everything I've led up to, you know, battling my parents, trying to get into the creative sector, and this is as close as I can get. I said to myself, I cannot do this. I literally cannot.

Speaker A: Ben, did you have an idea of what it was you wanted to do? Was it directing or was it.

Speaker B: It was a bit of everything. It was more.

Speaker A: I mean, production, maybe. Was it just on sets?

Speaker B: Kind of. Uh, yes to all. Again, because. Because of my background and not knowing where I was, you know, looking at where. Where my parents wanted to meet, where my parents wanted me to be, I didn't really have a set path.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: So I looked at acting as a way in. And then I realized I don't have the opportunities to act because it's so difficult. Didn't go to drama school.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then I remember looking at certain films and looking at the credits, you know, when you really latch onto the credits and you see, like, the amount of crew attached to. And then I was like, I need to be on set. I need to meet these people. And I remember someone in the office at the time saying, well, you realize you'll be working late, longer hours. You'll be, like, in the thick of it, maybe in a different place around the world. And I was like, this is what I want to do. You know, I'd work long hours happily just doing it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think that's when I realized, okay, so now I need to take it more seriously. And I started doing essay work just

Speaker A: to get my eyes for people that don't know essay.

Speaker B: Yes. They're supporting our artists.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Or an extra. Someone who's able to get in to film set. On set. Uh, you dress the part and you're. You know, they're always looking for all kinds of people. And again, I was doing this while I was at the Walt Disney Company. So I'd find every moment I could. Weekends or late nights or, um, uh, there were times I would request days off when I got access to like bigger projects. They wanted like a two week block.

Speaker A: Right. Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah. Taking the time off. And it was, it wasn't hard. It wasn't hard because, you know, like in yourself, this is what you want to do. You find ways to do it. And I think that's. Again, that's, I think when you meet more people in the film industry, you realize how, like how people go about it in their own way, but they all really push for it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because it's so hard.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's so hard. It is difficult. It is hard. And what strikes me about that is just your dedication to the cause there as well. That you were working a full time job and. Yeah. And you were trying any which way you can to get any extra work. So that puts you on, on a set. So you build up your experience of that. That's, that's hardcore. Whatever age you are. That, uh, is hard.

Speaker B: Just like, I think it was more like you, you really want it. I think. Yeah, that's what it is. You just don't use the word desperate, but you're just so keen, you feel like you're, you're getting closer to it. So you just need to keep pushing.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, and then, and then I realized again, I, I'm a man of who, who tends to take his time with things. Like I wouldn't just drop the ball. I kept on working at the Disney, Disney Company. Walt Disney Company Until I was steady and able to leave.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because my parents are like, okay, fine, we trust you, we believe in you. You know, you're, you're a young man now. You can do what you want as long as you keep earning. You can't just be doing anything unpaid.

Speaker A: Yeah. Which is good advice actually. It is good advice because.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: As, because you do need money. As the world that we live in, you do need money to live and to pay your rent and to feed yourself. So there, there, there is a balance, isn't there, of going. Actually I need to earn some money, but I really want to do what I'm doing. And yeah, doing that for free is not going to give me the other thing that I also need.

Speaker B: So it's a real, it's really difficult.

Speaker A: Yeah, it is.

Speaker B: Um, and I know a lot of people. Tell me, well, I've met people, including like myself. How can you get to that Next level if you don't have the experience, what they're looking for.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And that's like a constant like uh, bat, uh, circle circular problem. Most people come across.

Speaker A: Yeah. Catch 22, you don't have to. Yeah.

Speaker B: So. So being an essay, I met a lot of like runners and ads assistant directors who would look after the extras and the crowd team. And they, I said, what do you do? How do you get it? He said, oh, you know, it's hard but it's fun and it's. You're part of the crew. Sorry, I'm just a bit, I'm just jumping ahead, jumping around. But they said to me, if you want to do what we do, you need to get a little bit of experience. You can't just join us. You have to like show that you've got some on set experience. And I said, well, where do I get that from? And they said, anyone you come across who's making a film be sell yourself as a runner. A can do like person who can do anything they want. And I said, but I did that for the uh, agency. They said, no, no, no, that's different. That's specifically to post houses and Soho agencies. If you want to be on set runner, you have to actually get experience as a, um, it could be short films, it could be music videos, it could be concepts, it could be low budget. And I said, well, is this what you had to do? He said, yes mate, many times. Yeah, this is how you get there. And then I realized, okay, essaying is not a way in. It's just a way to see yourself in. Like being an extra. You get to see things happen around. You get to wear the amazing clothes and walk and talk in a certain way on set. But to be a part of the crew, you have to go one step further.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that's when, that's when I know you said it was, it was, it was a lot of work, but this is when it actually had to put my actual real work in.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: I remember coming across, uh, low budget filmmakers with no budgets, like I think barely 200 pound for a crew of like six people. Tiny, barely. They could, they could cover expenses.

Speaker A: And that's about it.

Speaker B: That's about it. And it was like very short stints, like two to three days.

Speaker A: How did you find them, Ben? How did you, uh.

Speaker B: Again, just people you, you come across.

Speaker A: Just asking, asking, asking.

Speaker B: A neighbor. I had a neighbor when I was living in Victoria because I moved out to Victoria, to Pimlico. A neighbor of mine, I bumped into and she, she's actually a writer for bafta. And somehow she said, I'm writing a short film with a budget, but uh, and they're looking for runners and ad like minded people. And I said, okay, great. And then she put me in touch with the director and the record said, we've got no budget, we'd love to have you come on board. And it's weekends, uh, it was like a Friday evening, Saturday, Sunday. I said, perfect, perfect, I'll take it. And this was during again my time at Walt Disney. Uh, and then again, this is, I think what you realize. Again, I'm sorry, I'm going back on myself. Like you have to be able to do it and the only way to learn to do it is you have to like put yourself out there. And everything I was doing at university was more like theoretical, like learning how a film works, learning how meeting people like social clubs, like film clubs and like acting was very, again, I can't stress enough. It was spontaneity. It was like AM Dram.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Nothing specifically towards a career in it. Uh, but then getting this opportunity as a runner, I realized like, you step on, you meet the crew, they give you a radio.

Speaker A: Yeah. You hear the conversations. You hear the conversations.

Speaker B: There's a huge hierarchy on set which you learn to respect, uh, because it has to work in a certain way. And doing that, I think for like the one weekend I was, I was thrilled, I was buzzing. I was a stand in for Lenny Henry. AM I got to travel, cast to set, I got to look after them, get the lunch orders. Very, very entry level runner work. But I think that's when, that's when I realized that this is what I need to do, this is what I have to do. And then from that, um, one little stint, the third ad, who's basically the person who's step above the runners. Mhm. Third assistant director. She recommended me two other contacts who again, low budget indie filmmakers who are doing a short film in London and they're looking for runner drivers.

Speaker A: Right. Okay.

Speaker B: And luckily by that time I was driving, but I didn't own a car. Uh, because who does in London? Right?

Speaker A: No, exactly.

Speaker B: But um, I think that was a massive perk being able to drive because they were looking for people who could help out. And um, again, this is day, not day one. This is like my onset experience as a runner. Like, like my second onset experience as a runner. So like my second ever, like unpaid job.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I get a phone call. I, uh, hear good things. You're, you seem to Be, have your head screwed on and you want to be in the film industry. Can you drive? And I said yes, I can. They're like, okay, great. We, we're gonna, we're gonna hire a Luton van for you.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And just like that they were like, we need you to pick up the Luton from Walthamstow, which is northeast London. Bring it down to Camden. Very careful. There is a expensive uh, camera for shooting on film. It's going to be attached, you know, next, you know, within you. You can't, you can't like drive dangerously. You can't break immediately. Like all these like very pressure.

Speaker A: Making me feel sick listening to it.

Speaker B: I don't know what they were saying. Like, like the, the last thing we need you to know, it's a night shoot. It's like we're working around the night hours.

Speaker A: Oh my God.

Speaker B: You're starting at 9pm, finishing 4 or

Speaker A: 5am and then you're working as well.

Speaker B: But luckily it was weekends and um, you know, I was dead keen and I did it and I did it, I did it really well. The crew were very nice. Again, this was like, I'm talking a crew of like 10 to 12 people.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That a production design who built an amazing set in a abandoned car, uh, park in Kentish Town. Just behind the station. There was an amazing like abandoned garage which is not there anymore. I went, I went back there recently and it's not around changed. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I got it done. Big relief. Uh, and then I put, I was able to put a credit to my name. So I started again with a brand new cv.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, showing changes everything, doesn't it?

Speaker A: Once you get that, once you get that first small credit then.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then it grows again. Like I, I can't stress enough how important contacts are and meeting people at the right place.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: At the right time. So you've got to put yourself in those places.

Speaker A: It is talking to people, isn't it? It is, yeah. Uh, you have to be able to talk to people in this industry particularly as you say, in those type of roles that you were trying to get to. Yeah. It is about your network, it is about your contacts, it is about being able to kind of connect with people. Uh, and also just remembering who people are and who you had that conversation with and you talked about that and just being on top of building your network.

Speaker B: Definitely massively keeping in touch. I think not just, yes, striking a conversation and looking for work, but also, ah, checking with them, seeing how they are, seeing uh, what they're Working on.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that way the friendship grows, like mutually.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Did you. Once you've done that. Excuse me, Once you did that first second she did you. Were you aiming for a particular job role at that point or was it still like you want to direct?

Speaker B: Back of my mind, I want to direct. I always want to direct. But my, my goal to direct was to get close to set and see how directors do it. M. And that's when I, I again, I was still on, um, the books of, of these extras agencies. There's so many extras agencies around. You just sign up for free and they send you texts and it luckily is paid. So if you've got a moment or you're free to do it, you can do it. And then again, once you're reliable, you say yes to these jobs, you're able to get consistent work. But just going back to my story, while I was doing these short films, I would still get the availability requests.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And that's when I was like going back to the ads on set. Like, look, look, I've got experience. Remember me? Or meeting new ads and saying, look, I've got this, I've got that. And they were like, okay, okay, build more experience, keep going. Also look at diary services. I mean those are two nuggets of information because then they took you more seriously.

Speaker A: Yeah. Diary services. What are they, Ben?

Speaker B: Um, they're kind of like a little, they're kind of like, it's like a platform for I guess agents for crew.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So crew are able, so crew able to like link up to these diary service sometimes or uh, most of the time you tend to pay a monthly fee.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And these kind of like agents. I wouldn't say agents. They're kind of like bookers so they

Speaker A: can connect you to jobs.

Speaker B: Then they were very much a go to for me. I joined this diary service and they were very entry level. They looked at uh, work in film and TV for production, which is more office based production roles, runners, ads and locations.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And they would have contacts that they would put forward. So the contacts would put forward jobs as and when needed. And they would, the diary service would propose it to um, the runners or the people on the, on their books.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And again, this was, I think I was coming close to finishing at Disney just because I had enough and I wanted to leave. And again I was getting closer to my goals and my dreams. Um, and then a job contract came about and I think it was again, they don't tell you the diary services are very discreet. Because they don't want people to get excited about the actual production rather than. Yeah. Rather than the role.

Speaker A: Yeah. So they don't tell you.

Speaker B: Yeah, Nothing at all. I remember I booked an interview with. So they were called Left Bank Pictures. They're still around.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: You get, you get linked to the production company. I went and interviewed, uh, for an hour and a half and then at the very end they said, what, what are your views on the Crown? I said, well, it's very dramatic because I haven't seen it, but again, I don't want to lie. And so they, they like, they liked my, my appearance and you know what I came across as. And within, I think within six weeks I was able to, to be, to join as a runner, uh, production runner, uh, on The Crown Season 4, which was very, very good. And again I gave him my, my notice. I left and I was very lucky enough to have secured like contracted work.

Speaker A: Amazing.

Speaker B: Which was, which was good. Yeah. And m. That again was the next stepping stone towards like my career.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean the crown's heat, the, you know, huge production. Right. So, so how long were you on that job for? How long was the season?

Speaker B: It was, it was meant to be, I think 12 months, but because of, literally this was 2019. Just on the, just before the custom.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.

Speaker B: And they, they halted production. I think three months, three months before wrap. So I think I did nine months, nine and a half months.

Speaker A: So did you give up your, your Disney job for that?

Speaker B: Yes, yes.

Speaker A: That was, that was the crunch one. Right.

Speaker B: That was it. As long as I could provide income, I've got nothing holding me back.

Speaker A: Incredible.

Speaker B: But production, production run again, so different to being an ad. I said, I've got all my experience to be on set and. No, no, no, Ben, go, go to the office. You got good, strong office experience from Disney. Oh, did they complete pivot again towards, um, something else? But I get to learn a lot about paperwork.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: About, uh, crew hiring, uh, rushes. Rushes running. I got to learn about how important feeding the crew is. Like going on recce and then looking after the crew. Uh, you know, very entry level stuff. Very. Again, it sounds basic, but it makes a difference. So like, I would make, um, you know the cards you used to come in and out of a building, like the floppy cards. I would take pictures of the crew as they join. I got to introduce myself. I got to see who they were, what roles they did. And you're learning so many new things, like what a spark is, what a gaffer is, what, um, uh, the rigging crew, the pre light rigging crew. Like, all these specific roles that are like, so unknown to people who are not in the film and TV industry. Um, and again, like, I remember I would get set visits where I could go and visit the crew on set and the actors and everyone would know you. And I think that's the beauty of being a production runner. You meet everyone.

Speaker A: You're in the heart of it, aren't you? You are literally there to help everybody.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I really enjoyed that part. And again, I know you keep hinting at directing and that's when I was like, okay, I'm in a very good place to do a short film myself. I've worked with essays, I've got contacts of essays who want to be actors.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I've, uh, I've met screenwriters or I know, like how to formulate a script from that agency work I did.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Speaking to the writers and I was like, you know, on a low budget. I've seen other people do it. Let me give it a crack.

Speaker A: You said amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah. 2019, I did my first short film, which is available online.

Speaker A: Yeah. What's it called, Ben?

Speaker B: Tell us what's it called with, uh, Breaking the Kingdom.

Speaker A: Breaking the Kingdom, everybody.

Speaker B: That's my first ever budget to short. I've done many again, I've done a few others before. I didn't really just jump into it. I was like, making films with my iPhone, making films with friends. But this was my first one with a budget. A mini cast, mini crew, you know, looking after props, buying, uh, like fake pregnancy bumps, buying, like, all kinds of things for the film. And I was able to edit that while I was, um, working on the crown. Again, like, you're meeting all. Yeah, sorry, I just can't help working.

Speaker A: There's. There's a theme running here, Ben, where you just don't stop working and which

Speaker B: is why, like, I just, you know, having this. I've got this week off because I'm a bit ill. I still want to. Itchy feet. I still want to do so much more. Yeah. So, um, so with that, with that film being like shot and edited, I was. I learned again, you learn more as you're doing. Of course, film festivals, you have to submit to film festivals. You have to.

Speaker A: Which is a whole business in itself.

Speaker B: Whole business and world. And like, there's different factors of it. You know, there's pitching, there's, um, uh, sales agents, there's distributor. Again, we're going to down the biggest scale of it, but like, to get Yourself in that platform, you have to, like, sell the film, you have to pitch the film, you have to screen the film. Yeah. Again, there's so much to the film and TV industry as a whole that I. I realize even now there's so many avenues to get to where you want to go.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And. And the key is the key. I've learned from so many people, just don't stop. Just keep. Keep going. If you've got that drive, just keep looking for. For that next opportunity.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that it. Well, and you've demonstrated that quite clearly as well. Like, you have absolutely kept going. What did. I'm assuming, Covid then put a scupper on quite a lot of things.

Speaker B: Massive. Massive stuff.

Speaker A: That must have been really frustrating because it must have felt. Yeah, you. You were kind of just getting.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Getting that step and go and going. Yeah, yeah. That must have been really hard. Really, it was tough.

Speaker B: But I was very fortunate. The Crown was a great production, lovely cast and crew, and we were. We were one of the few productions because we've been, uh, to see the show has been going on for so long, we were able to be, uh, furloughed as part of the government initiative.

Speaker A: Okay, great. Okay, well, that helps so much.

Speaker B: So, so much.

Speaker A: And then did you come back to filming after?

Speaker B: So they. They shot smaller units with a smaller unit to complete the film. They only needed. We shot, like, 11 episodes. And then they. They actually, I think they removed an episode to make it.

Speaker A: To make it work.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But then again, I was trying to see the best of it, and I thought to myself, well, I didn't want to be a production run in the first place. No, I need to pivot and push more for, um, like on set, a ding. Or runner. Floor runner. And again, I think, oh, the beautiful thing about if you're in the film and TV industry. Yeah, you. You get in. Once you put a small name for yourself or you work hard on one production or one contract, people notice you and people recommend you, which is so nice. So once. Once the COVID Once, um, that Covid bubble peaked, and then people were able to get back into work. I would get. I would get so many phone calls saying, would you like to join us for a new Amazon show? A new HBO show, A new BBC show? And I said, yes. What ads? And they said, production runner. Production runner. I was like, no, I do not want this.

Speaker A: So what did you do? Did you say no or did you.

Speaker B: I said no. I said no for a long time. And then I. I Took one job as a production runner. And then within a day I said I could tell, like, this is a repeat of the crown. You just. You're just doing the same motion. I've learned so much. And I left within two days. Yeah. But then again, a good friend of mine from the crown joined Pennyworth. Uh, it's an unknown show where the origins of Batman and Batman's butler. Like a little show with, um. Uh, Sorry, I forget the name. There was a famous singer as attached to it. But, um, Pennyworth was a show that was going in Leavesden Studios and they were looking for Covid. Covid Pas. Which is a thing at the time.

Speaker A: Most of the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And, um, again, this is a friend I worked with, I trusted. And again, showing the importance of contacts, he said, he said, he called me up and this is. This is day one into my new production, run a role. He said, what are you doing? I said, I'm, um, just starting a new contract and I hate it. I just don't want to be here. He said, what would you do if you leave now and you come to Leavesden for a COVID test? And I said, when? Now? I said, yeah, come now. Book you in. And again, like, I finished that day. And then I legged it. Well, I drove myself to, um, Leeds and got a COVID test. And he said, when can you start?

Speaker A: You're like, now.

Speaker B: Yeah, literally. So the next day I called in, I said, I'm really sorry, this job isn't for me. Please find someone else. And then my friend got me in as a Covid PA within that week. And again, that's the beauty of the film industry. When the work is there, you take it. You don't hold back.

Speaker A: Yeah. You have to grasp it, don't you? Yeah. Because it does have peaks and troughs the industry.

Speaker B: Yeah, massively. Yeah, massively. And then again, the option. Sorry if I feel like I'm too self indulgent.

Speaker A: No, you're all good. It's fascinating. It really is.

Speaker B: But the, uh, the production, the COVID production, again, there was a whole Covid department with a hierarchy. A Covid manager, Covid production supervisor, Covid secretary, what my friend was at the time. And there's Covid Pas and my. The COVID production secretary, sorry, Covid production supervisor said to me, what do you want to do? Do you want to be on set, Covid or in the office? Covid.

Speaker A: You're like, on set on set, me there.

Speaker B: Uh, and then she was like, great. Here are these masks. You have to Hand it out to every crew member, make sure everyone's two feet apart. Two feet apart all times. I. What is it? Yeah, and it was. It was a tough job because the crew didn't want to comply.

Speaker A: No, no, I'm sure. Very.

Speaker B: It's a very like being on set. For those that don't know, it's very chummy, it's very lovely, very warm. And. And the amount of people you get to meet and see every time on different jobs, it just seemed. It just asks for embracement and, like, hugs. But as a covert pa, you just gotta, like, try none of that.

Speaker A: No hugs.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was tough.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure I did. Ben, after that, that Covid job, did your work start to kick off in terms of the roles that you wanted to do on set? Has it kind of built since? Because obviously that was what, five years ago now?

Speaker B: Five years.

Speaker A: 20.

Speaker B: 20. 20, 21.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then again I did. I did two or three more jobs for being covered PA, but I didn't. I knew I'd given up on production running or production secretary that route, and I'd given up on Or Covid was dying down. And again, I was getting phone calls from big studios saying, we. We hear you're good. Would you like to be like a Covid secretary or Covid. I remember it was. There was a big role. They asked me. It was for Wonka. They were like, we're in early, early prep. You seem to know the symptoms. You need to know, like, the tests. You seem to know, like, LFT tests and how to. How to book and hire nurses who'd come and swab, like, was a whole system, a whole process. But, uh, purchasing the masks, the FFP masks, uh, and everything that came with it, you know, the bins. So I. I remember again, when one cup. When that opportunity came about, I was already looking at other work and I said, that's when I said to them, I said, I'm sorry, no. And then within two weeks, I interviewed for a BBC runner job for this Is Going to Hurt with Ben Whishaw.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's such a. That was such a great series.

Speaker B: That was.

Speaker A: That was a phenomenal program.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that was my first contracted floor runner role. If anyone watches that show and gets to see the credits, you'll see my name is.

Speaker A: The name is that. But that was. Well, isn't it interesting as well? I think a couple of things. One is your parents has already always instilled in you to grasp all the opportunities, but here you are Actually starting to say no to some opportunities because you were starting to then think about what where your career was headed. You were actually in a position to go, no, I need to follow this path, not that path, because I want to get to get to where I want to get to.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And they're quite brave decisions like that. Leaving that job is a brave decision. To go to another one that felt more right for you and this one as well, turning down Wonka, which is.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, it's a massive. Right. I mean as it turns out, it worked out well and that you went on to this. This is gonna hurt. Which again, as I said, it was a phenomenal program. So sometimes I think it's having that trust in yourself, isn't it that actually.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: No, this. I've got that experience now. I am where I am. I know that I've got value and I've got a good reputation and it

Speaker B: will 100 and I think learning, obviously trusting yourself, like trusting your gut instinct, but also looking at, so looking at the paths I've taken, once I say yes to it, I can see where it's leading to.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I'm very wary now of like, if this is not benefiting me, I shouldn't go for it. Even though the work is there, you have to realize like what is the long term plan of what you want to do.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, and again I think, I think that's really important and I've had, I've

Speaker B: heard from many people and there is common for people to switch departments and roles.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: But like I'm no props. I knew a few props people who were costume ah. People I knew. I knew like a few runners who, who would switched over to hair and makeup and costumes. So it is common to have like changes in, in the roles. But I think what I'm learning and like what you said, once you're. Once you're on set and you're associated with that role, people won't think of you as anything else.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. So you have to find a way of progressing.

Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Um, so this is going to help. Was again my first entry level contracted runner role. And then with that came more opportunities I think again through the diary service of keeping in touch with contacts by getting. By getting that contract. That was enough to show people you've got what it takes to do bigger and better things.

Speaker A: Yeah. Amazing. Ben, where do we find you today? Like where. What's. Since that uh, since that floor running role, what has been, what has been the trajectory since then and where do we find you today?

Speaker B: I've been very fortunate enough to focus more on directing. I've done, um, as well as that first film, I've done two other short films with a budget that have grown in time. And recently, just last week, I wrapped on my first low budget indie feature film.

Speaker A: Whoa. Congratulations. That's huge. That's really huge.

Speaker B: That's been a massive, massive achievement because it took a lot of time to prep, you know, doing everything that the studios do on a smaller scale with crew and contacts you trust and having. Working with a budget was amazing. Working with good cameras, working with a lighting team, working with, uh, just incredible people that you learn along the way, you meet along the way, and you keep in touch with them and then they do favors for you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I was able to. Yeah, we've, we've put it, we've put it in the can. It's all good to go. Now I'm working with my editor, looking at rushes, logging rushes, make sure the footage is good so we can start building, assembling a, like a rough draft of the film. And then I didn't write it. So the writer's been like, very hands on support, which has been really good.

Speaker A: Amazing.

Speaker B: This has been my focus the last, I'd say eight to 12 months.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: But within that time I've been able to be very, very successful as an ad. Um, I can say it now if you, if you look online. Alejandro Gonzalez in Youritu did a film with Tom Cruise.

Speaker A: They did, yeah.

Speaker B: And I was able to be again one of the on set ads, which was very, very. It's a massive learning curve.

Speaker A: Amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah. Very good, very good film, very good filmmaker. I just can't wait for people to see it. Um, with great cast and top talent.

Speaker A: When does that come out, Ben?

Speaker B: I believe October 2026.

Speaker A: Okay. All right.

Speaker B: So be really interesting to see what people's take on it. And again, like this, this has taken years to get to you. It's so hard to get into industry if you.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, your story demonstrates that. It really does. Like, and all the different pathways you've taken, the decisions you've taken and.

Speaker B: Yeah, but lucky.

Speaker A: Extraordinary. So you, you were first, first aiding on that?

Speaker B: No, no, no. It's um, not even like third and then.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Splinter units like thirding and then also like floor running at times. Because again, I can't tell you how. Oh, it's so competitive. It's in a good way. Like, I find that I think I'm a very much people person. I Gel with many people. But again, if I had to focus on my film, I would take a lower role just to be able to, like, give other. Because I know my heart isn't in a ding. No, it's just a stepping stone. Yeah.

Speaker A: But also, it's going back to what we said about money. Right. You need to keep the money coming in, but you want to be able to develop your own projects as well. And it sounds as though you're doing that right.

Speaker B: Slowly.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It's getting there. And I'm working on. I'm lucky. Like, once you've got enough experience as an ad, you can do dailies, which is so much fun. It's kind of like you jump in, you help out a team. You're there for like a week, a day, and then you jump back off. And then when they need more support, you jump back in.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The last year. No, Sorry, this is 26 in 2024. I was adding as a daily for, I think, four different productions.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And it was absolutely the best time of my life. Because you. I was on Slow Horses.

Speaker A: Oh, God, I love that show. I love that show.

Speaker B: Amazing way of working. And then I did. I did Hugh, uh, Jackman's, that's just done a lovely sheep movie. Amazing Detective. I was daily on that.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And then there was. There was two other jobs. And again, you. You. The jobs just become like second nature to you. As in, you know what you're doing, you know, the crew.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You jump in, you help out. And I. I was able to. 30 day on midsummer murders. Again, amazing, tiny production, but it's just so much fun and you get so much more opportunity. So the smaller the scale, the bigger you can grow.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, because, you know, this. Smaller the crew. Right. Yeah.

Speaker B: I need just more opportunities there. But again, like, I think for the inaritu one, at the beginning, I had a chance to be a third. But my friend, who's again, so much better than me because her, uh, her mind and her just vocation is set ad ing. That's all she wants to do.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: I remember the second was like, well, I might pick her. And I said, you know what? Just go for it. She deserves it. And my heart was clearly not in that. It's like seeing that the filmmakers make the magic rather than, like, assist in directing it to. To grow as a person, if you know what I mean.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, uh, that's.

Speaker B: I mean, yeah.

Speaker A: That's so amazing that you did that. There weren't many people that would do that, Ben.

Speaker B: Oh, it was hard. It was a hard decision. It was a hard decision because as long as I'm earning and working, I'm happy to do what I think is right.

Speaker A: Yeah. But there aren't many people that would do that. Many people wouldn't have said that. So that's all credit to you and your character. There aren't. There aren't. Ben, I've got to ask, ask. What do your parents think of your job? I've got to ask.

Speaker B: It's hard to say. I think they're just impressed and happy and content.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that, that's a pretty amazing. Yeah, amazing thing that they feel that they must be very proud of you because there is no doubt from what you shared with us today how hard you've worked to get to where you've got to. You have like, phenomenal. And I should also just do a shout out to Natalie at Allspring Media who introduced us.

Speaker B: Lovely Natalie. Yeah. So good.

Speaker A: And you did a boot camp with them, didn't you?

Speaker B: Um, we did a second AD course and again, second ending. Something I can happily do in low budget productions, but what I want to do as a career, maybe not.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, and I met two lovely people. Matt, who's a second AD on EastEnders now, he was my second on my film.

Speaker A: Amazing.

Speaker B: And Ellie again, another big shout out. She was a development producer on my film and she helped get crew and essays and locations and it all helps

Speaker A: to build your network. Right?

Speaker B: Massively. Just. Just keep talking to people and keep pushing. Yeah. Because you will get there if you have the heart and the drive for it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Do you know what, that's. I was just about to ask you, like, what are your tips for people getting into these. Into that, I suppose into directing roles, but almost you've already just summarized it so nicely that you need to hearten your drive.

Speaker B: Yeah. But I got to say, directing is one of the hardest professions that an Acting is very hard and it's a lot of luck, a lot of who you know and, um, contacts. I think if we're being practical.

Speaker A: Yeah, be practical.

Speaker B: If you can get on set as a runner, look at the. There's always a director's assistant on the budgeted films and TV shows. Talk to them, don't nudge them out of a job, don't take their job because trust me, you see the same people. If you have a bad reputation or you come across as rude or arrogant, they'll remember that. Um, but if you speak to them and you learn how they do It. People are so open to tell you their stories on set. Um, try and aim for that. And again, I couldn't. I couldn't get those roles for some reason. I just couldn't land the direct assistant role. Um, and then talking again, there's a huge, um, I don't know the word, you know, social critique where you can't really. You can't go up to anyone on set. You can't just run up to there. But, you know, finding a way, maybe like when you're getting a tea or coffee or when you see a director, like, leaving the set, just. Just say, introduce yourself and start that process of just.

Speaker A: Yeah, find your moment, isn't it? Exactly, yeah, find your moment, exactly.

Speaker B: But, um, yeah, speaking to people is the best thing. Looking for directors, assistant roles. Speak to production companies looking at, if you can, shadow directors.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because I'm sure they're always happy to have the help.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it is about building that. Those connections, isn't it?

Speaker B: It ultimately massively.

Speaker A: Ben, what is your feature film called?

Speaker B: It is now called My Conversations with Death.

Speaker A: My Conversations with Death. Okay. So we can all keep a lookout for that.

Speaker B: Yes, we have a trailer which is. Which is. Which has gone live.

Speaker A: Ah, amazing.

Speaker B: Really, really proud of it. Um, yeah, please tune in. Look out for it. I've.

Speaker A: We will.

Speaker B: Yeah. I hope to. Hope to see you again soon. Do you know what you're doing?

Speaker A: Oh, uh, Ben, this has been so amazing chatting with you today. Thank you so much for your time. You are, ah, you know, dedication to the cause summarizes this conversation. I think you have, without doubt, worked so hard to get to where you've got to. And I can't wait to see. Uh, you're sure? And. And also now your feature. Congratulations on everything you've achieved. I can only see good things happening from here. And continuing your brilliant work. So thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker B: You're very welcome. Thanks, Carrie.

Speaker A: All right, take care, Ben.

Speaker B: Have a good one. Thanks again. By. Sam.