Emerging as a Woman Leader in Advertising w/ Emma Dennehy | Marketing Mindshare Episode 13

Speaker A: Welcome to Marketing Mindshare, the podcast that brings you into the world of the top marketing minds, from Fortune 500 companies to scrappy small and medium sized business marketers. Together, we'll explore the leading strategies today's marketing leaders deploy. I'm your host, Dean DiCarlo. And now let me take you into the Marketing Mindshare. All right, everyone, welcome to Marketing Mindshare. Today I have a special guest, someone who I actually went to college with, um, Emma Dennehy. And Emma, thank you for coming onto the show today. Why don't you tell everyone a little bit about what your role is as an account supervisor for chemistry?

Speaker B: Yeah, no problem. Uh, so, uh, what a typical account supervisor does is, uh, um, actually quite entrepreneurial in nature. So my job would be to, you know, liaise with clients on the brand side and just make sure their needs are being met while, uh, also protecting the needs and interests of the, uh, company that I work for.

Speaker A: Did you always know? So you said that you're kind of entrepreneurial, so did you know you kind of had the skill set to go into account because there's so many things that you can do going agency side right out of college, which that's where me and you left off. Like, me and you left off. Like, we graduated, we were friendly in college. You were going to marketing. I was doing marketing as well. But then when you get to the real world, there's like a million options. So what led to that decision to make it on account side of the business?

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. I think, uh, you don't really know until you step foot into an agency. Right. I mean, the program we did in college, we didn't have too much insight into what an agency did. Um, and then everybody that was also a marketing major had no idea what their next steps were going to be. It wasn't as, like, cut and dry as, like, the accounting majors we went to school with. They had a very clear path forward if they were going to big four, um, accounting firms. But we were all a little bit lost, I think. Um, yeah, so I just tried to learn as much as I could, really. I was fortunate enough to grow up in the city, um, and my dad owned a bar and restaurant right in the heart of where a lot of agencies happen to be. Oh. Um, yeah. So I would be waitressing and, you know, some folks from an ad agency would come in for happy hour and I would just kind of pick their brain. You know, you build up a rapport with people, um, and just get to talking So I eventually asked, um, the chief strategy officer at the time, Jonah Bloom, I, um, asked him for an internship. Um.

Speaker A: You met that person at your father's bar?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, he was at kbs. Ah, sorry, I didn't say that. Um, but yeah, he was great. Um, he was just, I think taken aback a little bit that I just straight up asked him. Um, and I don't think they had like a very clear intern program at the time. So he was able to figure it out and take me on. And I was the only intern, um, for like the winter break session, um, of our senior year. So that was awesome. And that's kind of where I first got my foot in the door. M. But yeah, I started in strategy as an intern, um, and then full time I was taken on to be on the new business team. So I had this like full 360 view of what an agency does, um, and how they go after new business, how the macro industry worked. Um, and then after a year and a half of being there, I kind of just wanted to get a more concrete idea of how billable budgets worked. Because new business, it's all kind of like up in the air. Um, agencies will do whatever it takes to win the business. So you don't have a clear sense of that, um, concrete billable time and how agencies make money.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So from there I went into account.

Speaker A: Right. So like kind of where you're. So you're saying like, when you get the business, then how does the agency actually make money? Because at the end of the day, our industry is predominantly based off, not necessarily value billing, but more billable hours, like many services are.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I've worked on big retainer clients and then I've also worked on, you know, projects, um, that you know, you will actualize your hours for. So it's so much of the art of being in this business is around figuring out the right balance of, you know, how to staff your teams, um, you know, how much to bill, um, and you know, if you get it wrong and you're, you're. If you get it wrong and you have a retainer client for a year and what you think is going to take you 40 hours actually ends up taking, you know, 200. With a lot of senior people on your team, you're really going to screw yourself over.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's a tough part about the business. So it's interesting that like, that's one of the things that you were interested how it works, because I'd imagine a lot of People kind of want to run the other way. To have that responsibility of, like, you have to estimate the projects, and then again, then the team has to make sure they actually hit that mark.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the responsibility I don't love, um, comes with. Yeah, it comes with it. And I just, I'm a very curious person. Um, I'm sure a lot of people that go into this business can relate. Um, so, you know, I don't know if I'll end up staying an account, um, down the line, but it's good to kind of get a feel for every single, um, side of things.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I think as you know, an agency owner now, that's. I'm very much like that account supervisor role. Even though I'm not the main point of contact on the accounts, I very much understand, you know, billable hours. It's our whole business. If it doesn't work, then we don't. We don't. Can't keep the lights on. So I understand that part, but the thing that I love is that, like, you have your hands in so many things and the knowledge that comes with that, it's so foundational, whether you're agency side. Yes. But, like, let's say you became like a director of marketing someplace. To have that experience is invaluable, to understand what the processes are and then being able to deploy that for a brand. So I love the direction of account.

Speaker B: I definitely think it's. It was a very weird path, um, and none of it was planned, um, but I think, you know, it's given me a leg up. Ah. And, you know, I'm able to speak to a lot of things in my role now that, that a lot of people that have stayed, um, the traditional account management path probably can't speak to because I just have. I just. I don't know, I have insight into other. Other parts and how other things work.

Speaker A: Right, right. And it's interesting now because. So you were at a big agency, but now the role that you have, it's kind of this hybrid role. It's. It's a lot different. You're stepping up to the plate. Uh, tell me about that.

Speaker B: Um. Uh, I recently was at bbdo and I was there for three years, and my experience there was phenomenal. I've worked on Exxon Mobil on their global account, which is just a massive piece of business. And it's just so intricate and interesting with all the product offerings and just how they operate.

Speaker A: Um, and just not to cut you off, but to kind of dive into that Are when you're working on a global account like that, are you interacting with. So do you, are you assigned a region? Is it like us, is it east coast, is it worldwide? Like, how is that organized on like a global international account like that?

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say it's a very case by case basis, depending on how, um, the business is set up. Um, Exxon Mobil had an agreement with Omnicom, which is the parent company of uh, bbdo. Um, and they essentially worked with agencies all over the world. Whether it were, whether it was bbdo, um, AMV in London, um, in all of these different countries and wherever there wasn't a BBDO office, they would work with ddb, which is under that, that broader Omnicom network. Um, so my role on the global team was to liaise with all of those agencies across the world and just ensure there were consistent communications going out. Um, ExxonMobil decentralized their, uh, marketing organization. So, um, there were a lot of inconsistencies that were popping up across the globe because it was up to that region to just kind of produce what they thought was right for their market. Uh, it's a very smart approach, you know, to have people on the ground, um, actually advertising to, you know, local audiences. But you do find that some issues will bubble up to the top. Um, like inconsistencies with the brand. Um, nothing, nothing super crazy, but it's important to have that, that central kind of brand.

Speaker A: Wow. Yeah, that's what you were doing. So you, you really were, you were in touch with a lot of people across, across the world. That's, that's really interesting.

Speaker B: Right. But then I, I also sat a few dusts down from the North America team. Right. So like they were only working on North America. So I would work with a team of 40 people at BBDO, all working on ExxonMobil and only have insight into maybe 15% of it. Uh, right. So it's just, it was just such a massive, a massive piece of business. Um, and it was a great experience.

Speaker A: Did that set you up to, to now move to the next role that you're at now, or.

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say. I mean, it's funny you work at such a big, like BBDO is the, the Yankees of advertising, right. They, they put out incredible work, they're getting all the super bowl spots. Um, and it's just a fun place to be and it gives you such a good foundational understanding of what your specific role is. Um, and, but you don't tend to wear a lot of hats you know you, you have all this training and you have these phenomenal people around you, um, to, to build you up in your role. Um, and then for me personally once I kind of reached a, uh, okay, I have a pretty good understanding of what I'm doing here. I want to try and dip my hands into strategy a little bit more, um, maybe have a more hands on approach to production. Um, so I decided I wanted to go to a smaller agency which is where I am now. Um, so right now I'm working ah, at Chemistry. Um, Chemistry has won small agency of the year, um, from Ad Age for the last three or four years now I think. So, um, they're pretty impressive for such a small operation. But at the same time they have an agency in Pittsburgh, they have one in Atlanta. They acquired um, Hispanic agency called Pinta, um, out of Miami, um, which is now called Chemistry Cultura. And so myself and one of my own bosses that I used to work with um, at BBDO on the ExxonMobil team are now um, charged with kind of putting down our boots in New York. So it's really exciting.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a massive undertaking. I see you guys are right on Madison Ave. You're going toe to toe with the BBDOs of the world, Omnicom, the whole IPGs. Obviously all the companies,

Speaker B: every agency is gonna have their sweet spot. Right. Like we, you know, we'd probably approach brands for a little bit more mid sized. Um, but we have the capabilities to do those really large campaigns and really blow it out of the water as well. So we're right at the, we're at the perfect size to keep the small independent agency feel, um, we can tackle large and small. Um, yeah. And it's been fun so far. I have been in this role for about two and a half months now.

Speaker A: So what are the still all new? Yeah, yeah. I'm sure, I'm sure there's a lot of challenges that come with the role too. What does that look like for you, if you don't mind kind of hitting on some of that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think it's a weird time to be opening a physical office. Um, a lot of people are still pushing to work from home. Um, you know, people have gotten the sense of freedom that work from home can bring to them for the last two years. So I think to get people to firmly come back into the office when we know that people can fully do their jobs from home without kind of anything falling off is, it's a little bit, it's a tricky thing. To try and navigate. And then of course there's no, there are no vaccines, um, for children five and under. So some people with child care don't feel comfortable going back to Jamaica. So it's. I'm not going to turn this into a conversation about vaccines. I apologize, Dean. But you know, some people have concerns, so I think that's, that's fair about their children. Um, but yeah, is it the idea,

Speaker A: is it the idea that like, culturally is that tough as this upstart agency in New York where you're trying to build that culture, Is that almost like one of the concerns too?

Speaker B: Uh, right now we're a two person team. So, um, myself and Christy Bates, who's the general manager of New York now. Um, you know, we've been crushing it and we've been putting in, in the hours, so that, that part has been fine so far. But you know, long term goals of what we want for New York, there are a whole new set of obstacles you have to consider. Um, and what you probably did a

Speaker A: few years ago absolutely makes sense.

Speaker B: It's not, it's not um, as big of an undertaking as starting an agency from the ground up like you have done. You know, we have offices elsewhere and we can lean on those team members, um, and work really on, um, really collaborative stuff remotely. Um, just like the last two years have kind of taught us we need to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, it is nice to have that support for sure. Now you guys had mentioned that you bought this agency, Pinta, I think it was.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So what's the. And I guess that makes sense now that you're opening up in New York. Large Hispanic, uh, community, multicultural city, obviously. Um, what is that like? I'm guessing that was strategic, that the idea you can expand there then New York is kind of that next best spot outside of Miami.

Speaker B: I mean New York is probably one of the most diverse. I think it is the most diverse place on earth. M. You know, Queens alone, I think there's more than like 200 languages spoken there. Um, so, you know, the hope is, well, we'll continue to grow some existing clients, uh, and potentially help them activate, uh, with a sharper sense of what's going on in this area. Um, but also, you know, Hispanic advertising is just a whole other beast. Right. And we work really closely with our team in Miami to try and have a really good sense of what we need to do, um, in order to grow and land those um, Hispanic clients as well. I think a lot of the work that our team out of Miami puts out, some of it's fully Spanish language. Some of it's clients from South America looking to expand into the US and launch a program product in the US Um, and some of it is just opening up people's eyes to the power that Hispanic advertising can bring to their business. Um, it's a completely untapped market for so many brands that they're just missing a huge opportunity. Like the buying power of Latinos in this country is insane. I think it's like one in four in the U.S. um, is either first or second generation Latina.

Speaker A: That's massive. So there's, there's a great size opportunity there and you guys have that skill to actually execute on it, which a lot of, you know, like an agency like ours could never do that. We don't have that proficiency. I mean, culturally, you have to understand like what's culturally relevant within that community. It's like these micro. Yes of America, but then you start diving down to the different groups of people, the different ethnicities, and there's, you know, a meme that people would get. America, you know, an American meme is going to be very different than maybe like a Latin based meme meme. Right. So that's really cool.

Speaker B: It's nice to have, yeah, it's nice to have a team of people who just like have their ear to the nuances of those cultures. And it's, you know, latinas in the U.S. it's such a wide array of people and backgrounds. It's not a homogenous group. It's, you know, obviously Mexican is, is one of the largest, um, subsectors of the Hispanic community in the U.S. but then, you know, there's Caribbean and there's South American. Um, and each, each country, not even each country, but each like part of each country has a completely different dialect and just way of speaking. So, um, it's great to have that, but it's also just great to have the kind of insight that there is this huge untapped market and we can work with our Anglo clients to just open up their eyes to the possibilities. Um, and you know, if, if we can do that for them, not only are we helping them, but we're helping ourselves as well. So.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. It's a, it's a big task. That's awesome. That's such a cool challenge to, to be able to take on and obviously like you're a leader in the space. Um, and it's, you know, it's International Women's Month, right? Or National Women's Month, History Month. Is that Right.

Speaker B: Women's history month. Yeah.

Speaker A: Three month. Right. So what does that kind of mean to you that you're. I mean, you're. You're number two at this agency pretty much. Or the second employee. Like, that has to be not lost on you that, like, you got chosen out of a sea of qualified people, like, you are the most qualified. Uh, like, what. What is that feeling like right now, and especially in this month? What does it mean to you?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm honored that we've been trusted. I mean, it was great that I had a previous relationship with Christie, who's the gm, um, so I felt like we had naturally worked really well together in the past. Um, so it's been great to get back into the groove with her as well. Um, but it's also just an honor that we've been tasked with this undertaking, um, by chemistry. Um, so it's really exciting, and it's definitely not lost on me that, you know, only 50 years ago, you know, I would not be in the seat right now talking to you. Um, so very, very grateful, and I'm very, very excited to see what we can bring to the table as women, too. You know, it's a different perspective, um, and it's. It's another untapped, untapped market that women don't get taken seriously as consumers either. So, um, having. Having the kind of insight into that as well, and a lens that not a lot of other agencies have, um, because they're not investing in female talent and female leadership. Um, so hoping we can use that to our advantage as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's a great idea. Um, like, the person who's in charge of our paid media division here, we're building that out right now. Um, she's also a woman, obviously. Um, and there's something to be said when you have diversity within the team, the perspective that you gain, I can tell you, as a man, there's things that completely go over my head that some things women are better at than I am. Right. There's, like, skill sets, and then there's also perspective. And, like, uh, to me, that's why it's, like, so important. And that's something that, as we're growing, we're really trying to push as well. Because you get the most. You get the best ideas that way. You get the best product that way. When people can just kind of put their heads together and then bring that perspective, bring that skill set to the table, work on it together, and then come out with it. So.

Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. And I mean, we all come into work with a different background, but like a preconceived, uh, notion of, uh, how the world works. And when that doesn't always line up, sometimes it's for the better. You know, we can expose each other to different things, cultures and experiences.

Speaker A: It's interesting, like, just on that line of like, preconceived notion, like, if you would have told me that there is like such, this struggle for like, women in the proper place, like, I would have never. And it was my own ignorance, but it would have been me like, saying, like, really, like, I just don't understand. But now, like, seeing all they come to life, like, you have to work twice as hard. Like, I have no doubt that you completely, you have to work a lot just to get that notice within the last six, seven years of your career. So it's, you know, I think especially in this month, like, as a male in the, I'm not gonna say corporate setting, but even in the small business setting, it's something I try to pay attention to because.

Speaker B: And that's, that's all we need to do is just pay more attention, you know, and, and listen to each other.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: My perspective with anything is like, you know, if somebody, if somebody is expressing to you that something is offensive or, or, you know, they don't like it, they're not, they're not doing it for no reason.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, let's all just be kinder to each other and listen to each other. But, I mean, I've been super fortunate so far in my career. I haven't felt like I've faced serious hurdles because I'm a woman. Um, there definitely have been a few uncomfortable workplace situations. Not at Chemistry, not at bbdo, but, um, and I've been fortunate enough to have, you know, male co workers kind of stand up for me and go to bathroom and, you know, sit, like, raise their hand and say, hey, you know, this is. Right. So, um, it's, it's been, it's been a good ride so far. I'm hoping, I think, you know, as I've, I've made it this far. And I would say I'm in a leader, leadership position right now, being employee number two in this office. Um, but realistically, my level is very much middle management at the moment. And I think I don't want to speak for all women, but based on the statistics and the numbers, you really start to see progression from this point forward become a lot more difficult, um, for women in the workplace. So I think just, you know, if Companies can start putting women on their boards and appointing them in leadership positions. And I don't want to hear the argument that, you know, it's about selecting the most qualified person, because otherwise.

Speaker A: Yeah, then otherwise the split would be pretty much the population split. It wouldn't be.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: What is it like? I don't even know if it's 10%, to be honest. If. If there's 10% of CEOs that are women, I doubt it.

Speaker B: I think they're. They're. Actually. I read a statistic, and it could be dated now, but there are more CEOs in the US named John than there are women CEOs.

Speaker A: That's ridiculous. That's terrible.

Speaker B: Um, but, yeah, I mean, you know, hopefully the tide's starting to change. You kind of start to feel it in the air a little bit, but I think so.

Speaker A: I feel like it's the millennial generation, too. Like, even though I had that, like, level of ignorance, like, going into the workplace of, like, why. The reason I had that level of ignorance is because, like, I wasn't seeing the difference. Like, it didn't matter to me. Now, female, white, black, whatever. Like, it doesn't. I think our generation is more in tune to that. And I think it's really interesting. We were talking about before the show, like, we're at the age where the, uh, age and like, the time in our careers where we're getting promoted to leadership. And I do feel like our. Our view, our ideologies are now going to reflect in the world around us. And that's exciting to me. Like, that's really exciting to see because I think we're going to have, like, greater equality that way.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. And thank you for having me on this podcast. I think that's, like, step one, just giving women a seat at the table. Um, you know, giving black and, um, brown and Latino and, you know, just trying to get some diversity of thought, um, and experience and background in everywhere, and it'll just open people's eyes up. And the thing that kills me is, like, it makes business sense. When you actually listen and you do it, you start to see the return, um, the return on your investment. So that's another exciting thing is, like, hey, if no one else is going to do it, we're going to do it, and we're going to. We're going to take advantage, and we're going to make money off of it.

Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. I could think of at least a half a dozen campaigns that we've launched in the last two years that I know if I was the primary strategist on the account that I would have missed the mark because I didn't have the female perspective. M. We would not have performed as well as we would have. So, like, it 100% makes business sense if you don't have the diversity that you're missing out on. So much opportunity. And the world around us is just moving anyway. So if your company's not going to do that, you're not thinking about it as a leader. You're. I mean, you're way behind. You know what I mean? It's like you're, uh. You know, we know this and we're both in leadership positions, but, I mean, every. Every company needs to be there. And this was something that 10 years ago was really becoming a topic of discussion, let alone right now in this moment, after 2020. 2021. Like, companies should get it.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: So we kind of went over a lot today, Emma, but I appreciate you sticking in there with me and telling us a little bit about your experience. Um, I'm super excited for you. I'm really proud of, like, everything that you've done. And, uh, you're just sharing the insight with, you know, with the marketing mindshare audience. So where can people contact you if, um, they want to get in touch? Maybe they'll try to even ask you for an internship one day.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it would really come full circle then, um, yeah, LinkedIn is probably the best place. Um, it should be up to date there. Feel free if you're listening to this, to just shoot me a little message, um, when you go to Connect.

Speaker A: Perfect. And I'll put that in the bio. And thank you again for your time today.

Speaker B: Thanks for having me, Dean.