Digital PR Is Broken. Authority PR Is Taking Over

Speaker A: So today we're talking about traditional pr. We stopped doing a lot of digital PR campaigns and we're getting clients on tv.

Speaker B: It's like these spammy, outbound, nonsensical, non logical campaigns. Casino releases, study on how you can get to sleep faster.

Speaker A: There is still a case for outbound, but you have to be in the right position. You have to have internal data. I've gotten really tired of being just spammed to death with crappy campaigns. Now they're AI tools. 2, 3, 4. Want to attract and convert more leads? Want to learn how digital pr, branding and SEO can establish and build your brand identity? Welcome, um, to the Market Movers Building brands and links with Linkify Podcast. We answer these questions and help you ramp up your brand visibility and credibility. Let's cut through the noise and make your business the talk of the town. We're your hosts, Nick and Chris. Let's get this show on the road.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Market Movers Podcast. Today is a very special episode in the fact that we do not have a guest. It is just myself and my business, his partner, Nick Biggs, to talk about how you can appear or how your clients can appear on the BBC, CNBC and Bloomberg Television for live interviews. Welcome to the show, Nick.

Speaker A: Great to be back. All right, so today we're talking about traditional pr. We call it authority pr. We're also going to talk about the state of, uh, the digital PR industry, why we stopped doing a lot of digital PR campaigns, sort of what we feel is the issue with those and then how we're getting clients on uh, tv. So it's one thing to say, like I was featured in the BBC and that means it's a link. That's a, it's a great link. I'm not, I'm not knocking that, but it's a totally different story when you are on the air, you're being interviewed. That is authority building at its finest.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So let's start with the state of digital pr.

Speaker B: I think I can sum this up because for me it's like a, uh, who'dathunk it level up the quality and uh, the opportunities thrive. It's like these spammy, outbound, nonsensical, non logical campaigns. Casino releases, study on how you can get to sleep faster. Like, I mean, yeah, you can maybe score some coverage, but are, uh, you going to get interviewed on the BBC? So how have we gone from stopping doing that rubbish outbound stuff to compounding to things that result in this level of coverage? Have we done that?

Speaker A: Well at first we should say, I think there, there is still a case for Outbound, but you have to have, you have to be in the right position. You have to have like internal data. So about maybe two years ago, digital PR started to get extremely popular. And there were case studies all over LinkedIn and Twitter, X whatever about like how this company was able to score coverage. And they were a law firm talking about potholes and just all kinds of ridiculous stuff. And it worked for a while. And that's not to say it doesn't work, but it doesn't work very well anymore. So now journalist, I've gotten really tired of being just spammed to death with crappy campaigns. Now they're AI tools. Uh, some agencies have even released their own AI tools that just churn out AI content. And I don't think it's very surprising that it just isn't that valuable. We stopped doing those campaigns a while back. They were just the uh, we saw the success rate going down, down, down, down. Uh, we still do expert commentary because you know, they're like journalists are actually looking for quotes from these experts. So you can be that expert. That I think makes sense. That is a very competitive space. Still a lot of great coverage that we're earning from that. But we started to have clients who you know, they, they were less concerned about the link, the SEO value and they were more coming to us for authority, building, building the brand, that kind of thing. So that is where we pivoted to and we've been blown away. Right? Like it's, it's been. Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay. Before we get into that, into strategy though, let's, let's look at the state of the, of the digital PI industry because that's super interesting what, what you've said and I'm interested to, to look at uh, like if you think that the reason that it's fallen off a CL in terms of like success rate and in fact you don't actually see it very often now in the media. You used to see from like uh, the Reach, PLC Publications Express and you'd see like, like you know, consistently every day even you would see like Gardener reveals five ways too or spot the difference on things. You're seeing that less and less now. So I'm wondering if there's a two pronged reasoning for this. One, the ease to send this like stuff off and a race to the bottom in quality. And then two, the state of you know, content publishers and the state of sorts of things that they need to achieve. Budgets are getting cut, ad Revenues are getting driven down. So maybe these stories, or in fact, I know for a fact, I've seen some research, these stories drive much less in terms of revenue than other ones. So I think it's a two pronged approach as to why this is, has been consistently not working like it did and will continue to.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean if you're a reader, like, I mean some of them are, are interesting but they are gimmicky and like for legitimate news companies, publishing something about which, which cities have the most potholes is not ah, all that interesting. Right. I think that's, I think the main thing is that you know, they, yeah, they were running so many stories like that they kind of start to lose their, their appeal. And for journalists they just got sick of that. And once this became like an AI play, journalists were just tired of just getting AI crap in their mailbox. Even if the quality is like, of the writing is good because now the tools do write extremely well. Uh, I think they just aren't interested in those kind of stories anymore. And so you really gotta level up. You've gotta do data, which is, is challenging because uh, it can take, it takes a lot of work to compile the data. So you really need to have that internal data to even I think to make for it to make sense to start doing these, these kind of campaigns.

Speaker B: Our team, we're, we're on a number, you know, we look at the, the campaigns that have been successful. There's a bunch of places, newsletters that you can sign up to and the ones that you see that do well. It's extremely creative in terms of like the analysis or the positioning of, of the data perhaps that they have and it's actually like becomes the way that they'll position that campaign. It's like a news, it is a worthy piece.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Albeit if it's third party data. But like the headline, the nuance of the, of the story and the way that they're interpreting the data, you can see why these things do well. So. And it's not an easy thing to do by any means.

Speaker A: No, it's uh, not. Yeah, it could be a lot of work for. If you spend a week compiling a data campaign and then you send it out and get nothing. I think that's why a lot of companies have stopped doing those kind of campaigns. It's just the amount of work versus spending 30 minutes with an AI tool spinning up a kind of a sillier campaign. You can get it out quickly and if you don't get anything, you Know you didn't spend that much time on it.

Speaker B: Yeah, and, and just to, just to finish as well. I think where there is still like we say data, uh, is, is a great tool for these outbound games, but also like having actual like recognizable industry presence and data. So they say like money goes to money, like authority goes to authority. If the country's largest insurance company has data and reveals like the age group that's most likely to put a claim in for like a crash, let's say like that's newsworthy. Because a huge company with data that speaks to an actual like newsworthy angle. And you see that a lot as well.

Speaker A: I would say the only thing that we, because we still have some like legacy clients on these packages, the digital PR packages before we got rid of them, the only thing we've seen that does still seem to work is commenting on like local issues. So it stopped working on like these are the X trends for this. But anytime there is a proposed law, new development, anything that's happening in that local community, if it's within your industry, that can still work still, you, uh, know hard. Because a lot of the local publications, they're a little harder to, I don't know, I guess not always, but sometimes they syndicate way more news than they actually produce live news. So uh, challenging, but that can still work.

Speaker B: Yeah. Hyperlocal is still uh, hyper local. A good shout. Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, so then when we started doing traditional priority, uh, we were sort of blown away. Now that this is.

Speaker B: Well, hang on, let me stop you there. Let me ask you a question. So what is traditional pr? What does that mean?

Speaker A: So this is uh, this is truly an authority building activity. This is, you're not looking at this from an SEO play. Of course this can help your SEO. When you build up the, all those E A T signals, building up your brand is going to help your SEO. But where digital pr, the end goal is always a backlink right here, that is not the goal. It is simply coverage. It is getting in front of your ideal audience and it is talking about the things that you want to be known for, the narratives that you want to push. Whereas digital PR had really gotten to like, uh, if you see all the agencies are like, we don't let you approve the story, we're just going to run whatever story we come up with. And that's where you get these like completely bizarre, you know, uh, casino talking about hay fever kind of things. So here you, you're thinking about like, what do I want to be known for? What is my company or myself, what do we want to be known for? And those are the narratives that you're actually going to go out and talk about. And uh, so you're actually reaching out to the press and there's a, there's a lot of things that can come from this. It's not just you know, a quote in an article. You can get entire uh, opinion pieces op EDS where you're talking about something and it's just completely written by you. Interviews. And that can be like written interviews or TV appearances. That's the one I think we're most proud of because that's I feels like the biggest. Right. So having a client who is interviewed on the BBC or Bloomberg is one we're doing right now. Which New York Times we got with

Speaker B: a photographer around his house.

Speaker A: Yeah, we're having New York Times go to a client's house, interview them, take photos.

Speaker B: I mean that's insane, isn't it? If you think about it, compared to

Speaker A: CNBC is the other one. Yeah, it is, it's, it's crazy. Uh, but that, that's, that's what journalists are actually looking for. They're looking for experts who they can interview on the kind of topics that they cover. Right. And so this is just a completely. Today's episode is brought to you by linkify, the digital PR agency that gets brands feature in top publications worldwide. If you're looking to build authority and boost your search rankings with powerful high quality links, Linkify has you covered, ready to take your brand to the next level. Visit Linkify IO and let's get you in the headlines. Completely different shift. So anytime that happens, let's say you get the interview on BBC, that you might not get a link, you probably won't get a link and you can't really email that journalist and be like, hey, thank you for interviewing me, it was great to be on tv and usually those go on the website as well. But can you add the link? Like that's just not how it works. But that still builds up your authority which is going to help your SEO. But it's much bigger than that. The whole idea is to build your brand to become known for those narratives.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think what's important to identify is like as somebody who's looking to engage with digital pr, to have a clear understanding of what it is that you want to achieve. If it's a pure SEO play, then like you said, digital pr, that end result, that end goal is always the link. But in order to get that link On a Tier 1 publication, there is gonna be, like, sacrifices needed to be made in terms of like, topical relevancy, potentially like narrative control. Like, you, you lose a lot of that because the end goal is, is the link. And you're gonna get a link on like a super powerful website. Um, but you need to like, accept a certain amount of leeway or, um, potentially what the article is about, the quote that you give and how that quote potentially relates to your business. The example I always give is if you're like an email deliverability SAS tool, like, that's not a particularly PR friendly or sexy topic. There isn't a lot of tier one news articles writing about email deliverability. And therefore, if you want to be featured in tier 1 publications with a link, then you're going to have to be talking about things much, much more broadly. And that's the sacrifice you make in order to have the end goal being the link and only the link. But if you want to be controlling the narrative, designing the conversation around what it is that you want to be known for, how you want customers to perceive you, and how you want to be thought of within your industry as like a leader within your industry, then with traditional pr, we have that, that power and that control. And something which I think we should talk about is how beautifully this sort of hockey sticks up. So it's quite a slow burn at the start and then it can result in it in a TV appearance on the BBC. So Nick, how, how and why does it work like that? And like, why are we seeing that consistently across clients?

Speaker A: Yeah, so that's, that's very important to understand, I think, before you start this, because you see like, oh, uh, that this person was featured in Bloomberg or whatever. And I'd like to be featured in Bloomberg. But did you do it Bloomberg tv? No.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I was gonna say no. This is the theoretical company. Okay, so you, but you know, you don't land that kind of coverage on day one. Right. This is all about, it's possible if you have like a really great profile, you, you are a known expert. Yeah, you could do that. But for, for most people, if you've never done PR before, you don't have a public profile. You have to build up that credibility. So you have to. I guess this is a good spot to go through kind of the steps of like what we go through when building these campaigns, because step one is always going to be reviewing the profile and coming up with a narrative. And this is, I think, extremely important because a lot of companies, they're like, well, we're going to do pr and the narrative is we are the best X, you know, we are the best project management software. Like that's not interesting, right? You can't, like you're not going to reach out to the press and be like hello, we're the best project management software. Are you, you want to interview us Bloomberg? So it's about figuring out like what, like what makes you special, what makes you different. And this can, can and should go a little bit beyond just your industry, right? So we have one of our clients who is a real estate brokerage and he's talking a lot about building with AI, right? And that's very interesting for a lot of journalists in, in the real estate space because they are interested in, in these narratives how AI is going to change the way people buy homes and all that kind of stuff. So it gives him like uh, a different thing to focus on. So you really want like you, you're going beyond just the company, right? Because the spokesperson is important. That's who they're going uh, so making sure that you have narratives that are not just we are the best company. They are like what makes you different? Why, why should a publication be interested in interviewing you in the first place? So those narratives are crucial. We do make sure the bio is really good. It's really important that your bio is. This is pretty much common sense, right? But is interesting if you haven't updated your bio since you graduated from college, you know you want to do that before you, you start.

Speaker B: I think it's important as well to have not be a single issue company. Like you need 1, 2, 3, 4 sort of uh, narratives running alongside each other. And the way that we've always seen this is that you'll have like a sort of a core narrative. It will never be as commercial as we are the best project management software. But maybe your core narrative is, is much more in line with like your business. So you know, we, we believe in you know, affordability for, for software tools or like we're a big believer in project management and projects being run like collectively or something like that where it's less commercial but like a core focus which is going to be sort of the least, the least PR friendly and then you'll expand that with narratives that are important to you and the company. And then the other thing I would add is it's really important to have a person associated to the company and the narratives. Like, like you said, we look at the profile like we need a person guys, like we need a person that's Demonstrably connected to the company. Like, and we'll have interviews with people that don't have anybody on their about page. And they're like legit big companies.

Speaker A: Well, yeah. And the press is never interested in interviewing your company unless you are like, you're Tesla. You're like this big company where people are honestly interested in what you're doing. Other than that, like need. Well, even they have spokespeople, but you need that person who is the face of it. And you can do this with multiple people. I think that's one thing bigger companies struggle with is they're like. When we talk to people, they're like, well, we, uh, don't know who we'd do it with because, like, you know what, if we, our CEO doesn't want to do this, our founder doesn't want to do this, if we have somebody else, they could leave the company. And like, that's a fair point. You're still always going to have that coverage and it's going to be about the company, but you can spread it out as well. You can have several spokespeople talking about different things. I think depending on your industry, that kind of dictates how crucial it is about these, the narratives that they venture out. So some industries that have just loads of stuff going on, right. So we work with a lot of mental health clinics. There's a lot going on in that space where journalists are just interested in hearing the opinions of experts on how to deal with things or the problems. Because there's so much news out there about these issues where, uh, as other things, like we've mentioned, the project management software, like journalists aren't out writing about project management software. So it's crucial for that space in spaces like that to really work on those narratives which could be, you know, uh, remote work, AI taking over jobs. Like, there's a lot to talk about. You just have to think about that. What are, what are we going to stand for? What are we going to talk about? Go beyond just your core service.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. And then I think the next thing to, to talk about, I'd say in terms of the strategy and the process is once you have nailed down those narratives, the breadth and depth of narratives that like ourselves and the client are aligned with, we then want to start the, the way that we look at it or the way that we all, uh, like communicate it within our team is like putting, putting them in front of the media. Almost certainly won't start on day one with emailing the BBC and saying, would you like to interview this person. So how do we, how do we go about sort of starting that? And why is this the way that we found that it works?

Speaker A: Yeah. First of all, I just want to comment on how much you love the phrase breadth and depth.

Speaker B: Y. I said that a lot.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, you have said that a lot.

Speaker B: I'll use it when it doesn't make sense, but who cares?

Speaker A: It sounds good. Um, yeah, so this is like exactly what you said. Like and this really, really is important in the spaces that are a bit harder. Like I don't know, I keep coming back to project management software. Uh, but just the example we had. But if you are, if you, let's say you're in the medical space and you have, maybe you haven't done press, but you have like a really impressive bio, let's say you're a Harvard grad and you ha, you know, like you have like these really impressive credentials. Mhm. You have, you have, you have an okay shot at ah, getting big press pretty quickly.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: But if you're the project management company, this is where it's really, really crucial that you kind of do this build up phase, come up those narratives and then you start getting coverage around that and that coverage builds. So you've been out talking about this, you've been on podcasts, you've done some other interviews, you had op eds, then you kind of work your way up, you, you know, uh, stair step up to bigger and bigger publications because you can show that coverage when you're reaching out to other publications. Hey, I've been talking about this, I've been on these places. It, it gives a little bit more credibility when you're reaching out to the bigger publications.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think what's also important is that you take those sort of lower level, if we could phrase it in a way, those lower level opportunities, we'll call them like tier 2 opportunities maybe, or more industry specific ones, they tend to often be like a lot faster, which means we can get some like early traction in a campaign. And then the important thing to note as well is many journalists and freelance writers, they are operating multiple, across multiple publications. And so this is a very, very long term play. You may be able to engage a journalist who writes for like a tier 2 per publication about something which is perfectly fits the narrative. And they also write for a tier one publication that you know, three months down the line then becomes like a perfect fit. And you've got, you can see how that like compounds and then the tier ones or the TV interviews And stuff. These things are not like, that's great. Yeah, like, let's do it tomorrow. Like, these things have to go through a much more rigorous, like, or often have to go through a much more rigorous editorial process. There's a lot more coordination, and so it takes time. So you're laying the groundwork and planting the seeds for these things to hopefully like, fruit further down the line. Yeah. And I think having that flexibility on different opportunities as well is something that makes a campaign more successful when we are, like, aligned with the client on that. Like, you know, you don't have to take everything, but like, there, there's a lot there that will, you know, it might not be 100% like the dream thing in week one, but, you know, by month three, because we did those things, that's what's enabled us to achieve the greatest stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And if you think about, like, why you need to kind of stair step your way up, it makes sense. So if we take like Bloomberg, for example, or cnbc, they might be, if you have good credentials, they might be happy to use a quote of yours in an article. They're right. But they're not going to put you on tv, on live tv, without having, like, seen you on other things. Right. So it's way easier to get on local news or do a bunch of podcasts where they can go and say, okay, he looks okay on camera. He's not an idiot. Because, you know, some people are going to freeze when they get on the big, the big stage. So they're absolutely going to make sure that you're going to look good on camera before they put you on tv. Because a lot of people watch these programs. So I think that's important to understand.

Speaker B: That's a really good point. And it's just a, like, yeah, not just look good, but like a vetting, isn't it? Like, uh, if you've never engaged the media before, even if you are like a legit company that does, like, you know, good business and you're very visible if, like, this is the first time that we're putting the CFO or the founder in front of the media and we go straight to Bloomberg, like, who is this guy? He's never even done a YouTube video. We like, yeah, he's done some quotes and we can see his LinkedIn. But like, okay, after three months he did a local news piece, then he did a, uh, podcast. Okay, this guy is a real person and that we would feel comfortable putting on tv. So that's a great point.

Speaker A: Right. Because it's more than just like, do they have the credentials to talk about the subject? It's, are they going to hold their own on TV when people are watching? Are they going to freeze? Are they going to sound intelligent? Uh, so, yeah, that's, that's huge. Then the other thing you mentioned was the timeline. So I think that's especially true for anything that's going to get published. So it's one thing for journalists to use your quote in an article, but if they're going to let you write an opinion piece that is going to go through a lot of editing, it's going to be scheduled far out. So those really take a lot of time. The, uh, interviews they can take, they take a lot of coordination for sure, but they can, they can pop up quite quick because we had, the one we had for the BBC was very. It was like, can they, can they jump on tomorrow and do an interview? So those can come on quickly, but again, you've already had to build all of that up before they're interested in bringing you on.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yes. Okay. So I think we've gone over the main things you need to do. The last thing, what I just mentioned, you do have to be very flexible because, uh, if you want to go on to cnbc, Bloomberg, you're going to have to work around their schedule and sometimes they do have that short notice. So being very flexible with. Yes, I'm going to, I'm going to, Anytime something comes up, I'm going to pause and I'm going to dedicate, you know, some time to actually make that happen. Uh, because there's a lot of back and forth and you've got to be quick to respond. Journalists will move on. They've got other people. There are no shortage of people who are willing to do this for them.

Speaker B: Yeah. The final thing that I would add then, for this whole process is the compounding element of it. And then also maybe let's dispel a myth or what we believe to be a myth, a misconception. Maybe an old adage that, like, I've already got a link from that website or oh my God, I've already been featured. Authority. Authority. PR actually enables us to put clients in positions where. And we'll use real estate as an example because there's some great industry publications in real estate, uh, inman, um, being one, realtor.com being another, where one of the things that we are actively trying to pursue as an opportunity is bylined authorship profiles which can result in contributor accounts, contributor accounts for weekly or Monthly contributions. So Nick, I've already got a link from realtor.com like, why should I care about that?

Speaker A: I think nothing makes us and our whole team more angry than this because it is like a real narrative and it's the old SEO like diminishing link power. And I think, yeah, that, sure, that's a legitimate thing. And if you're buying guest posts, absolutely pay attention to that. Right? Maybe, maybe after you have one or two, move on somewhere else. But think of it like this. Have you ever like read an article on a major news publication and be like, this guy writes for this article all the time. Like, you know, I believed him the first time, but now that I see he writes all the time for cnn. Like, like the more you're featured on these big publications that everyone, including Google and AI models trust, the more you trust that that person is legitimate. They're on Forbes all the time on you know, New York Times all the time. They're, they're legit, they, they're a legit contributor that builds trust and that works with Google the same way. And I think getting rid of this and AI. Yeah. Ah, yeah. I think getting rid of this old AI SEO idea, that diminishing link return, like that is not the same. When you're a contributor on a major publication, you, you're absolutely nailing the eeat and you're building trust with Google and AI, uh, and readers as well. Your potential customers, when they see you are a contributor, like, uh, don't you think they're, they're going to, if you're, if you're good enough for your New York Times and cnbc, like most people are going to be like, okay, this guy's legit.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's uh, a pinnacle of any campaign in my opinion. Like, like it's something that we are extremely proud of. And in fact, I mean we've had no, no pushback whatsoever from our traditional PR clients. No one said like, I don't want to have a contributor account. But I can imagine for our like, SEO digital PR clients, if we uh, scored someone a great link on a website and said to them like, hey, there's an opportunity here for you to get a, you know, a link, you know, or you know, contribute an article to this website on, on a monthly basis, some I imagine, like half of them would say like, I've already got a link. I'm not wasting my time doing that. But I mean for us, like, like that is an app, an absolute achievement. It's not like, oh, I've written one article for this website which is extremely important in my vertical. It's like, you are legit now, a regular contributor to one of your industry's most important publications. Like, that's an achievement.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, and we ran this case study a while back with, uh, a site that John Dykstra had built. He had an interior design site and he was like, guys, I just want to case study this. Go nuts. And we pitched like crazy for this site and we landed. I can't remember how many links it was. It was a lot of links. Maybe like a hundred or something like that. And they were mostly from five or six publications who just kept. They were. They liked the profile, they kept coming back. We were more and more quotes and we blew up the traffic. Like, it definitely built a lot of authority. Uh, so I think that one. I think people should move past it. Like I said though, if you're doing like paid guest posts, paid link insertions. Absolutely. Like, don't, don't do that. But when you're doing legitimate pr, repeat is good.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. And, and you get of the advantages outside of just like, I mean, oftentimes as well, like, or even, you know, potentially a contributor, uh, byline account might not even come with a link. I mean they, they usually, they usually do. Especially like the profile page may have, but the, the monthly articles might not. Yeah. You know, just, uh, be held inside of that sort of profile. But I mean, just think about what you're doing. If I'm. Let's say I was a monthly contributor. Let's say there was a, uh, industry publication called digital pr.com and it was a doctor 19 had a million traffic. If I was contributing every month an article to that, like, am I not putting myself as an absolute authority within our space? And the way that you get these opportunities is not by sending out like really spammy, nonsensical outbound campaigns or just getting a link and moving on, because you've already gotten that. This is about relationship building and compounding and it all comes from what we've talked about. That's why we love it.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think this is really going to be like. I mean this is like classic marketing. Right. It's brand building. But I think there's a renewed focus on this. Or maybe, uh, I shouldn't say renewed. I think a lot of companies have always focused heavily on brand building and pr, but now there's an interest from companies who weren't paying much attention to it before they had their Google strategy. They were you know, on other platforms they needed to be on and now realizing that brand building is probably the best thing you can do for AI visibility, sure there are all the tactics for like appearing for an individual prompt. Right. Like the best this for that, go and get on those listicles, build up those, those profiles that it's pulling from for reviews. But beyond that, the biggest thing is brand building, building your authority. Uh, and so when you're, when you're doing like the buyer research in any industry, you'll see all these publications that ChatGPT is pulling from as it goes and does that research. That's how it builds up that, like that how it figures out like who's trustworthy. Mhm. It's not, it uses all of the review profiles but, but it's also pulling that information. And if it sees people repeatedly, not just quoted, but being, talking about the issues on those platforms, that's going to help. Every time it does its training data, that's going to help. As it sees you everywhere talking about these issues, it starts to recognize you as the authority in that space. So I think probably the number one thing you can do long term for AI visibility.

Speaker B: Yeah. And to sort of summarize, I think it's a, a golden opportunity now for like 90% of businesses. Coca Cola and Pepsi have already historically allocated their hundreds of millions of brand building marketing dollars. We're not saying that this is anything new, but from like an SEO or traditional SEO perspective, there are tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of businesses, um, rehabilitation centers, law firms and like everything in between where you could potentially start engaging in traditional PR strategy now and put yourself light years ahead of your competition and build a m moat. I just think it's like it's such a golden opportunity for so many businesses because so many won't be doing this and yet we know that this is going to be what drives visibility in the new era of search.

Speaker A: A hundred percent. So I think now's the time to really, if you haven't started doing uh, pr, I think now's the time to really start working on your brand building. Yeah. You won't regret it for sure.

Speaker B: Definitely. Okay, well this was a special episode with myself and Nick and uh, we'll see you uh, on the next one. Thanks for listening guys.