S2 E12 | How the inner work will actually make the difference with Nicki James

Speaker A: You're listening to Making Money Online, the podcast that talks about how to make income with impact and have a thriving business. We don't just talk about business. We talk about everything that affects your business, too. This episode is sponsored by our friends at Autumn. You know me, I'm all about finding new ways to work smarter and give my time to the work and people that matter most. But like every entrepreneur, uh, I've had those weeks where I am stuck in the weeds, answering the same questions over and over, stepping in to fix things, and my absolute pet hate having to chase people for updates. And sometimes things don't seem to move forward unless it's me stepping in. Right. Well, I'm excited to let you know that I've discovered Autumn. That's autm, and honestly, it's unreal. The team at Autumn are helping us shape the next chapter of how we run our world so we can deliver even more impact. It's actually the first AI I've found that actually does stuff that I want it to do. It doesn't just answer questions. It takes action. Connecting my emails, calendar, projects, team, everything. It just keeps things moving. But best of all, it just gets on with the work without me needing to check or chase anything. No setup, no stress, no training. Autumn aligns perfectly with my mission. It's designed to give us back our headspace, our time and our focus for the thing that really moves our business forward. And that matters most to me personally, the impact that we're making. Autumn is a great investment, sure, but more than that, it's what we all need to help us fall back in love with running our businesses. Trust me, it's going to blow your mind and you're going to love it. Head to Autumn AI Lisa, to save 50% on your first month and see for yourself why it's such a game changer. Ready to go further, faster? Just Autumn it. Today I'm talking to Nikki James. Nicky was one of my first ever clients eight years ago, and she is now the secret behind some of the best brands in the space. I wanted to sit down and talk about what happens after you finish working with me. How did she continue to grow and, um, what mindset roadblocks she had along the way. Hi, Nikki. Welcome to the podcast. Hello.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: My voice goes all posh when I do that intro bit and I don't really know why. So I've invited you on because you were one of, if not the first ever client I ever had with Lisa Johnson's strategy.

Speaker B: I don't think I was one of. I was the. I remember when I first met you, I was trying to pedal some wedding stationery when you were Carmella Weddings.

Speaker A: Did you?

Speaker B: Yeah. And I came with all my little wedding stationery. Yeah. We were in a party somehow. Yeah. Somehow I end up calling my husband, being like, and everybody's gonna laugh at this. I need three grand because I want to work with Lisa Johnson for three months. He was like, we haven't got three grand. At the time, I was earning 14, 000 pounds in my nine to five. And somehow I didn't get my wedding stationery in Carmella Weddings. But you had a new one to one client.

Speaker A: That's so funny. And I think you were the first one. Yeah. Because I hadn't really been doing coaching. I've been doing group stuff. Haven't really been doing one to one. How funny. And now here we are nine years later. That's crazy, isn't it?

Speaker B: And too much has happened.

Speaker A: So much has happened. So you were in a 9 to 5 then. What were you doing in your 9 to 5? Like, branding stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah. So we. So at the time, I worked at a magazine. So a food magazine. Um, and I was an art director at a food magazine. And I thought life was brilliant. Like, literally, I was like, I had a team underneath me, £14,000. In fact, I'm lying, I started at £14,000. I think I earned about 18 by the time I finished. Wow. 18 grand. Yeah.

Speaker A: And yet we moan.

Speaker B: I thought it was like the life of Riley. I was like, I've got a little team. I remember my grandma saying, you're so much more than this nine till five. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about, love. Like. And then I met you.

Speaker A: That's so funny. And then you did stationary for weddings. And then we got together and you realized you could do amazing branding and you did.

Speaker B: Yeah. I remember one of the very first conversations, which is why I said to my husband, I mean, you charged three grand then.

Speaker A: That's crazy, isn't it?

Speaker B: A grand a month.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And I remember, and I'm not like condoning this. We got a loan and I would never, ever condone that. I never ever tell our clients to do it. And I know you wouldn't either. But at that time, I was like, bugger it, I'm just gonna do it. Got a loan, did the three grand and left my nine till five seven months later. And first we scaled the stationary business. Yeah, I got a lot of stick for that. Because I scaled it really, really fast.

Speaker A: I remember you getting stick.

Speaker B: Huh? And then you were like, hold on, you've got all of this experience working with all of these brands that you've worked with. Why are you not bringing that into the industry? And I did. And then it went mad.

Speaker A: I know. I remember it going crazy.

Speaker B: Huh?

Speaker A: It was a really fun time, wasn't it? When, you know, you just make all this money and you like, wow, how has this kind of even happened? It's not that we didn't work hard for it, but we work harder now.

Speaker B: I work so much harder now and definitely aren't scaling as fast as what I did back then. Like, it was like overnight. It felt like.

Speaker A: How long did we work together

Speaker B: on and off for, like, four years. Was it? Yeah. Like, because I was the first. I was in the very first one to many. What was it called then?

Speaker A: Passion for Passive.

Speaker B: Passion for Passive. And that's when I started my brand group program. That was mad. Absolutely mad.

Speaker A: And you've done, like, amazingly well since then. You're kind of known now as, ah, the secret behind some of the biggest brands out there.

Speaker B: Which still makes me go, but it's true. It is true.

Speaker A: Like, you're the person that does that. And actually you do more. I think that, uh, when people talk about branding, people think of, like, amazing logos and amazing websites and things, but actually that's not what you do. And, um, we've. We've. We've kind of thought about this, haven't we? Like, what do you call it when it's when you do what you do? Because I think what you do is you see the identity of who someone is and you turn it into a brand.

Speaker B: Uh-huh. I remember you were one of the reasons why when people used to say, oh, it's Nikki, and she does branding, it used to make me want to scream because you always used to introduce me. And you weren't wrong. I did do branding. That was what I did. And I should be really proud. I do it for some of the biggest names in the industry. But I was like, if one more person stereotypes me for logos and colors and even photo shoots, I think I'm going to.

Speaker A: Because that's what people think of branding

Speaker B: as 100% and it's not. And everybody's got it so wrong. If you think of the biggest brands in the world, brand is through every single part of that company. But in the online space, everybody's like, it's logos and visuals.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I remember being like, I'm going to have to change what it is that I do. Because if people like Lisa Johnson are going around saying Nikki and she does branding, everybody's going to think I'm like logos and websites and it's so much more than that.

Speaker A: Yeah. So how did you change it?

Speaker B: Well, badly. So about four years in, I remember having one to one clients who would say to me, I work with some of the biggest names in the industry. Nikki. Um, and that call that I've just had with you has given me more clarity on the direction of my business than even with some of those names. And I was like, this is mad and quite triggering because I was like, well, why, why is everyone not working with me then? And that's how I felt at the time. Like I had all these big names working with me and it never felt enough because I wasn't being recognized for all of my genius and my skill set. And I decided that the only way to change that was to start moving away from branding. And um, I remember working with a coach and I don't blame them for this because they, they were going based on everything that I'd said, right? And I was like, it's so much more than this. Let me explain it to you. Like, I need to be able to prove to people that it's so much more than this. And basically that fifth year into business I got rid of branding altogether and I was a business coach. But with that I lost, well, I lost a lot of my income, like a lot of m. And I'm not talking like a small jump, like a uh, drastic jump.

Speaker A: I hate that you did this bit.

Speaker B: 100%. It actually hurts like even talking about it now because it was mad, like I was so on a trajectory, you were so known. And then I like burn it all down. Like I was the stereotypical, like burn it all down and start all over again. And just to try and prove to people what I am actually about.

Speaker A: But let's talk about that because, you know, we're mates so we know each other really well. Probably in this industry. You know me more than anyone else in this industry, I'd say because we've known each other the longest, um, and I know you pretty well as well and I feel like you've always had some self esteem issue.

Speaker B: 100% still, even now, like when you said like you work with some of the biggest names in the industry, like there's still a part of me, even though I do it and I know I'm really good at it, there's Still a part of me that's like, well,

Speaker A: yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because even then, like I think that you self sabotaged by changing yourself to, to a business coach.

Speaker B: A hundred percent. It was like, I've noticed in my career every single time it's about to just go, yeah, like you've worked with a huge name. Everybody's now watching you. Let's.

Speaker A: Let's ruin it. Ruin it. I've seen you do that.

Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. And I've, I've done it.

Speaker A: And I feel like when I was working with you I could keep you on track not doing that. And then when you weren't working with me, I saw you doing it. And it is hard to watch that when you know someone's brilliant at what they do. And I think you always had this thing where you're like well why aren't I making the millions that other people are making? And I used to want to say to you, because you're in a different. You're in a category of one. Uh, you can't be comparing yourself to all of these other people because they're doing a completely different thing to you. But I think you've come around like you've done a lot of work on yourself.

Speaker B: 100. And I think we have to. Like, I think that is the biggest thing that I've ever had. Like you think like we carry baggage of just our normal lives as human beings. Like I had issues with relationships. I had issues with thinking people were out to get me. I had issues with comparing myself. I had issues with thinking I was less than. You can't fix that just by having success. I don't think. Because that was still there.

Speaker A: But you think you can. You think you can fix.

Speaker B: I could have 100k launches, over 100k launches and I would still do the same thing. So I always thought when I get here that will be the thing that changes everything. But at the peak of my career, I was in my lowest point as a human being because I didn't know who I was anymore. And how do you carry on in a business in that? And I very nearly gave up. I remember sitting there with my husband being like, I can't do this. In fact I. Let's just be honest. It was when we were in Paris. Like we went to Paris on a trip together. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. And it didn't matter what anyone was saying to me. Like people who would have my best interest. It felt like everyone was against Me, because I was against myself, like, because I didn't know who I was and I didn't know. I didn't like what this business was making me feel like. And. And, um, I was self sabotaging, like, 100%. Like, it's getting good. Burn it all down.

Speaker A: Don't feel good enough, or you feel like you're not enough. Anything anyone says. You almost interpret it that way because you want to make yourself right. Because that's what our subconscious does.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: We go and find evidence. Our subconscious is finding evidence of what we want to believe. So the only way you can work on that is if you work on you. And I had to do that.

Speaker A: So when you came back from Paris, obviously we weren't really talking after that because Paris was like a absolute disaster zone. Um, and I, you know, some of that was because of us, and some of that was because of middle people stirring. As. Um, I've talked about this on the podcast before. There's always, I mean, whenever we've had any kind of argument before ever, and we're mates, so we're gonna have arguments. Like, we're proper close mates, so we're gonna have those kind of arguments. And whenever we did, someone would be in one of our ears, um, every time. And that happened again there when we were in Paris. So when we came back from Paris, we didn't really speak for a long time, but that's when a lot of your inner work.

Speaker B: 100. I knew I needed to because I knew that that was becoming bigger than just my business at that point. It was becoming something that was affecting my relationships and how I was interrupting in my relationships, including my ones with my husband. Like. And I remember sitting there being like, this business is not worth this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, however, this is making me feel. I never had that when I was in my 9 to 5. You don't have that in your 9 to 5 or. How often do you compare yourself to people in the same way? Like, you just don't. You just get on with it. And you have. I've always been ambitious. Right. And driven. Like, it's like, I've got these two parts of myself. I'm, like, super ambitious and driven, and I'll do whatever it takes. And I also have this part that will burn it all down.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But I've always had that. But then this was, like, unhealthy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it was like, okay, we've got to work on that now and we've got to do the things on that. But through that Like I said, I got rid of the Bram part, and

Speaker A: I think a lot of people feel that way where they're feeling like, I don't know whether I can do this in business. I feel like I'm not good enough. It's making me not like who I am. What is the first thing that you did to try and tackle it?

Speaker B: So the first thing was, which I think I see with a lot of people, regardless. And I want to be really, really clear here, because I know you all have a lot of people listen to this. It doesn't matter whether I'm working with people that are, uh, new to business, whether I'm working with people that are seven, uh, figures, multi, seven figures, eight figures. It all is the same.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The first thing that we do is we start to question everything, and then we're like, I don't know who I am and I don't know what I'm doing, and I have to go in and I have to hide a bit, and I can't. Like, I feel really disconnected from, like, who I am, who I was, and who I'm becoming.

Speaker A: I've done that this year.

Speaker B: 100, like, and that was exactly where I was. So I'm like, this human being in the middle, like, still operating, still trying to show up, feeling like all eyes are on me, because by that point I did have a good reputation, but also feeling that I'm not her, but I'm also not wherever it is that I want to go. So I went backwards and I basically started shrinking and questioning everything about myself until the point where I realized I'm not just questioning business anymore. I'm questioning me. Like, I'm questioning who I am. I'm questioning relationships with my mom, relationships with my family. Like, I feel like I haven't got a place anymore. Like, this is. This is bigger than this. So I went and sought help, and I worked with loads of people, right? Loads and loads of people. Like, so it wasn't business people. It was all, like, mindset people. And then I realized, I think the point when it all changed because obviously I've gone on this, like, saboteurial, like, road. I've. I've gone to just business. Uh, I'm literally addicted to opening up my phone, looking at people, comparing myself to people, knowing it does not make me feel good.

Speaker A: But not being able, ah, to help

Speaker B: do it, not being able to help doing it. Like, literally, like an addiction. Yeah, Like. Like, you know, like a drug addict can't help taking drugs. It's like, that you want.

Speaker A: Your subconscious wants to harm you.

Speaker B: M100. And the things I was saying to myself in my head were awful. Like, I would never even dream to say that to another human being. It was actually awful until the point where I was like, the only person that's got the solution for this is me. You're looking for all these external solutions. So first the external solutions was money, right? So the first four years of business, it was like, we'll just make them more money. Make more money, you make more money, make more money, and then it will all feel fine. And then it was like, well, okay, like, go and find someone else to fix you. And I think I'll be dead honest. I think I had that with you. Like, she'll make me the money. Like, she'll give me something that I'm not getting for myself or I haven't got from other female relationships. So then if you ever didn't even give it to me in a second, like, now suddenly, like, you're the problem. Yeah, 100%. Like, uh. And I realized this has to come from you. Like, you have to start, like this almost love affair with yourself of understanding who you are, understanding what you want, and understanding to your own choices rather than what some coach or some person told you to do. And I think that happens a lot in the online space. Like, everybody's just looking for somebody to just tell them what to do until they realize they've lost themselves on the way.

Speaker A: They really do. And I think as well, what they do is they look for an option C. So, you know, option A is go and do this mindset work. Work on yourself. Option B is go and do this. You know, actually have to sit there in the discomfort. No one wants to do those things. So they're looking for a quick way to get to option C. There is no option. You have to sit in it. I know because I've had to go through it this year. You have to sit in it and realize who you are. And that isn't comfortable 100%.

Speaker B: And I think it was only, I would say it's only this year where I'm like, if anyone's going to redefine what brand is, like, I lost all my creativity, and my creativity was my outlet. It was my way to express myself, and I'd lost all of that. I questioned every single move I was making. So to go from, like, being, like, quite successful to where I was at.

Speaker A: You were very successful.

Speaker B: Really, really, really, really, really, really hard. So then I was like, okay, what do I want then, because this doesn't feel good either. And I went on this massive journey and then I was like, okay, you're gonna redefine what brand is, which I love.

Speaker A: But you had to be okay with understanding who you were before you had the confidence to be able to even think that you were gonna do that. And one of the things you did, which I think is really good, is positive psychology. Because I've seen a lot of people do, uh, Nick's, especially Nick Pigeon's positive psychology and come out really well. Like, you know, really deal with some their demons in that, uh. How did that side of things help you?

Speaker B: I mean, let's just take like the basic thing that anyone that's listening to this could start practicing today and it could change their life. And that's gratitude. And I know you've done a lot of that too. I think when you are an entrepreneur, it's very easy to always be like, next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing. And you forget how far you've come. You forget everything you've got around you. You forget the people that you've got in your life.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker B: And especially when you're in. I do think it's unhealthy. It breeds an unhealthy pattern.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And one of the first things that I realized was, look at what you have got. Look at the husband that loves you, that's got your back regardless. Look at your little dog with her big doe eyes. Like, look at your friends who even though at times they've said things and you're like, whatever, like, actually did have your back. And if you actually could spend time, like, even like the smallest moments of like, gratitude in the morning, just looking out your bedroom window with a cup of coffee, like, it shifts your entire perspective. Because i100 was one of those people where I was like, always thinking of the more. So nothing was good enough.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Never ever grateful for anything that I already had. So, like, how can you flip that? Like that, uh, even that flip of focus changed everything.

Speaker A: What does it change when you start thinking about more of the good that's in there? Is it just a way? Do you think it's just like how you start thinking about everything else is different because you try and find the good 100.

Speaker B: Like, I have a much more positive outlook now on everything. I have a much more understanding outlook now on everything. Because when you're in a negative spiral, your brain is only thinking negative. It can't see anything else. You can't meet anyone at any. Like, no one could Meet me. If I was in a spiral, in a negative spiral, no one could meet me with positivity because I wouldn't listen to them. Yeah, I wouldn't know what that. Like, you can't receive that. Like, our brains can't receive that in that moment. So then fundamentally, like, being able to switch, that gives you the opportunity. Like, you know, I'm not saying I always sit there positive. I'm not saying there's not times where I don't want to scream because something's not gone to class. However, uh, I do think, like, you know, like, one of my best practices is I'll be like, for the one negative thing that's happening, how can I think of five more other positive things? And it shifts the perspective. So it changes the way you feel in yourself. It changes the way your energy shifts in that moment. Because now suddenly you're like, okay, well, fundamentally, like, look at all this good that, uh, I do have. Yeah, like so. Yes. Okay. Even in the hardest times, and I say this to people all the time, it's where you choose to focus. Right. I remember this beautiful story that somebody told me, and they were talking about the two wolves. There's like, an Indian Cherokee, takes his grandson for a walk in the woods. And, um, there's these two wolves howling, and one's the bad wolf and one's the good wolf. And the grandson was like, well, how do you quieten the bad wolf? So if we think we've all got a bad wolf and a good wolf, if we can have zero pounds, we can have a million pounds. If we can feel like we haven't got everything, we can have everything. Like, we have to have one without the other, because otherwise the good thing wouldn't feel good.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's right.

Speaker B: And this was probably one of the best stories that was ever said to me because the story goes, well, how do you quieten the bad one? You just stop feeding it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So when you're in the negative spirals and you're not using the positive psychology, and you're not using the positivity and the opposites of the things that you're feeling, and you're allowing yourself to sit in it, you're feeding that wolf, which means it's the same. If you can have zero pounds, you can have a million pounds. If I'm only going to focus on the fact that I've got zero pounds, then I'm only going to get zero pounds.

Speaker A: Because what you focus on growing 100%,

Speaker B: if I'm going to have A good launch or a bad launch. But I'm telling myself I'm going to have a bad launch. Well, then I'm going to have a bad launch because that's what, that's what's going to happen. So if I stop feeding that and I go, shh now, like, quiet, because we're going to focus over here because fundamentally we can all believe that we can have what it is that we want. If we can believe it, we can have it. So then you have to choose the focus there. So it's like, I don't believe that you can change a thought completely because something else can come and trigger that again.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Another day with another comment and another thing. But that's fact. Like, so then the only thing that I can do is learn tools in every single moment to be like, where do I choose to focus?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I could choose to say that this stepping into next year is going to be the most amazing year of my life. Or I can be like, yeah, but look at all that evidence that you've had before. The where that hasn't happened and you've set that target and it hasn't happened. Well, if I focus in, that's going to happen again because the way I've take action is going to be different.

Speaker A: And actually I think what's really interesting is you can look at something in two different ways. So I've done that before where you look at a year and go, this is going to be. This isn't going to go well because it hasn't gone well before. But actually there have been years that have gone well and you just need to pick and choose, uh, the bits of yourself that you're going to bring into the next year.

Speaker B: 100%. I think one of my biggest things, like, as I've decided, as I've found myself again and you know, decided the direction that I'm going to take with the business and you know, you and I are in each other's worlds again. And I'm definitely constantly getting like a little butt kick from time to time, which I m love and, um, sometimes want to be like, go away.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But fundamentally, I think the biggest thing is I've always thought, like, to get back to where I was, I would have to feel back where I was, burnt out, overwhelmed, resenting it, all of those things. But I'm not the same person anymore. No, you're not. So it's like, if you can, like, you get to change anything in any moment, that doesn't mean burning it all down, which was My mistake. Because I think a lot of people do that. Like, it's actually, it's just evolution. I've nearly done change, gone, like, well,

Speaker A: I don't like this part of it. So let's get rid of everything and start again when actually you don't have to do that.

Speaker B: Uh-huh. And you can take people on the journey with you and it will only make your brand stronger anyway.

Speaker A: Huh. That's so true. And you are a different person. Like even talking to you for the last few weeks, you're different to how you were before. You can tell that you've done work. You just can. Like, there's something different about you. And I think when that. I think people. I really believe in energy. And I think that people can feel energy from you. And so when you're in that kind of negative spiral, even if you're putting on the front, I think people can feel it always. Um, and so you don't do as well when you're like that anyway. But when you actually start to change your energy, actually change it. Not change the facade, but change inside, then people can feel that too. Yeah.

Speaker B: I always say, like, I think I built a business based on being in showbiz. Like being in the show, lights, being the showgirl, putting the face on. And if you looked back, like, I remember how many people have said to me, like, have you had plastic surgery since? Like that person back then? Because you look at a photo of me and I look completely different because I was haggard and I wasn't happy. But I put on the facade and so many people put on the facade. I think it's one of the biggest things that is the issue in the entrepreneurial world, especially when it comes to brands. Like, I could create you a brand tomorrow and make you look like a completely different person. That's not hard for me to do. But if we don't work on ourselves, on our identity, on what our truth is, and, um, bring that to the

Speaker A: world, it won't align.

Speaker B: It won't align. People will feel that. And eventually your business will go backwards, not forwards. And I think especially now. Right. We are stepping into an era where that is more important than ever.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And people aren't working enough on their truth, on their identity. And the identity part is the part that's gonna carry you through.

Speaker A: And that's all I've worked on this year.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: That identity part, because I didn't feel aligned anymore. Like going out there, having to talk. The six figures, seven figures thing that people say. Oh, people don't like that. Let me tell you. They do. Like so many people say to me. But no one likes this six figure, seven figure talk. No one likes it when you talk about money. No one likes any of that. They do. Because every time I talk about those things I get more clients and I get more attention. If I tell my story I get more attention. But I came to this realization that just because it works doesn't mean I have to do it because that isn't who I am anymore. I don't care about those things as much as I did before. I care about people's versions of success. But that's different to this six figure, seven figure thing. It's more about what do they want and um, why do they want it. This purpose. And so I started talking about that. The truth is I get less attention talking about this because it's not as sexy to, to talk about that. But it's me and it's real and I feel so much more aligned talking about it. But that's taken me a year to get to the point where it's like I can't live this lie part of me anymore. Which is to just come across as if money is the only thing that matters when actually impact matters so much more.

Speaker B: 100 and um, let's face it, income comes off the back of impact.

Speaker A: It does.

Speaker B: Like I always think, like I've always said, like if I help you, then you go on and help loads of other people. And in which case I've done my job.

Speaker A: It's a ripple effect. 100 and that's what it's about really. So let's talk about your version of branding and identity. When clients come to you, they're coming to you because they're not new generally are they? They're people that have been in business a long time and have been very, very successful. So they come to you and they say, I need a new brand. How do you get under the skin?

Speaker B: Horribly? I just dig around and ask questions. I have had clients who are really, really successful business owners who have thrown their hands down on the table being like, I don't know what you want from me. And I will sit there in silence until they give me the thing that I want. Like I have this gift of seeing people. I have this gift of seeing what the truth is. And I have this gift of seeing where they can go and what it should look like and how it needs to get there. So the very first thing, I mean, can we use, use, can we use you?

Speaker A: We may as well, use me because people are going to see this new brand out there. Uh.

Speaker B: Yeah. So like with you, like, I think it was really beautiful and kind of a bit full circle when you came to me and were like, I want you to do it. And, and I, I will never not be humble about the fact that people come to me and ask me to do that. Because I do think, like a lot of people come to me in this, in between. And like I said, like, they're not who they were and they're not who they are. And I think, think I have this gift of being able to dig around and find within people, like what's the truth, what really matters. But then how can we use that in a way that's not gonna. Like you have a reputation for making people money. And um, sometimes I have to say, I remember saying to you, like on a couple of times when we had our call. I was like, but we have to think about what people are going to say around this. And we have to think about what you did.

Speaker A: Because I was like, but I don't care about that anymore. And you were like okay, but that people are, uh, seeing you buy nice things. And I'm like, but that doesn't mean that I don't care about impact. But you come at it from the other way of what people will see from the outside.

Speaker B: 100 so all I'm ever thinking is like a bird's eye view of like exactly what this brand and this and this business is going to do. Because there is a bit of business within there and 100 a strategy without a brand strategy. Logos, websites, visuals, they don't mean anything. Don't mean a thing. So what we really wanted to do with you was get to the bottom of like, who really is Lisa and um, what really matters to her now and how can we still team that with what, what she's fundamentally known for. Because if we don't do that.

Speaker A: Because I can still make people money 100% and do.

Speaker B: And you will.

Speaker A: And I do every day. And so it wouldn't be right for me to say that isn't part of who I am. It's just not the most important part of who I am.

Speaker B: Exactly. So I think the first thing is like, I think there's a. There's two prongs to this. Right? There's the seeing it, uh, and putting it in front of them. And I do not have one client remembering I work with some of the biggest names, including yourself, who doesn't go as if you just see it and get it as if you've just communicated that to me in the way that you communicate it. Because none of us, when we're in the in between, can see ourselves regardless. And I wrote a post about this the other day where I basically said, you know, like, I have clients that come to me and they're trying to get to six figures. I have clients that come to me and they're already like as successful as you. You all have the same thing. Like, when you're in that in between, no one can see themselves and everyone needs someone to see them.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: My gift is to be able to zoom out and see how we bring that to life.

Speaker A: And what is good about what you do is that you don't hold back on pushing. Because at my level, it's really hard to talk to people about what you might not like about what you do. You know, I've seen people just pretend that everything's perfect. And although I don't do that very often, it's still quite hard to lay yourself bare in front of somebody. But you do it really well where you just make it happen. And when we had our call, I mean, it's easier for you and I, because you know me. Anyway, so you were able to prod a lot further than other people would. Um, but Karen was on the call at the time and Karen didn't speak. And I said to her afterwards, why didn't you speak? And she said, because I've never seen anybody be able to get into you like that. And I just wanted to see what you had to say because she's tried, you know, people have tried to kind of get out of me what I'm trying to say this year because I've had so much in my head that I've been trying to say and I've not known how to just get it out. And you just came in and an hour and a half I was still kind of ranting and talking about things I wanted to say. And she said, really good to see it because it put into words everything you've been trying to say. But then better than that, you go away. And I think, how is she going to be able to make any sense of that rant, that 90 minute rant. Then it comes back to me with everything I've been trying to say in a format that you could write on a website. And I don't sound like a weirdo.

Speaker B: I mean, we might include some weirdo bits, but that's fine.

Speaker A: It was really nice to hear about, to read them, almost like to be not validated. But you could see you understood what I was trying to get at without just seeing she's whinging about this, or, like, you know, that bit's not true or whatever. You could see inside it. And I think that's a really difficult skill.

Speaker B: But I don't really know. You know, when you said. I feel like I didn't really answer your question because you said, well, how do you do it? I don't know. I dig around, I prod. And I just seem to have this way of making. Of seeing people and then. And asking the right questions that them give me the answers that we need to pull it all together, like. And I do think that's a gift.

Speaker A: It is.

Speaker B: And I don't.

Speaker A: Your knowledge isn't common knowledge. Like, you will think other people can do it. They can't. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, proof and evidence, like, that meant everything to me. And, um, I was very much trying not to get emotional then, because to me, that is everything. Like. Because it doesn't matter who you are. If I can give you that gift in that moment, to me, that's so special because now we get to bring it to life.

Speaker A: And even, like, the pictures you show me and the mood boards you show me, like, it's almost like, what was nice for me, it's hard to explain, but it was like everything inside my head was now there in visual. Uh-huh. That's hard to get. My head is messy.

Speaker B: I mean, I've been in it for, like, nine years.

Speaker A: It's all over the place. So to be able to get it out into, like, this way that I could see it in front of me, and everything was just so good. And then I showed it to, like. Like, Karen and Marie, and they're like, yeah, almost like, thank God somebody's got it out of her because they've had me spiraling for a year trying to describe who I am and what I want to help people with and not be able to.

Speaker B: And. And I think that's the most important part of the work that I do. So, yes, obviously, we're gonna bring it all to life now, and I can't wait. And we'll do all the photo shoots and the visuals and the website, and we'll do some really cool shit, because I can. Because I don't generally have a rule. There's never a no, like. Like, me and my team will always find a way to do. To do really different stuff that other people can't do. However, like, that's. That's like the standard part to me. M. Yeah. That's still really special.

Speaker A: Think of as branding 100.

Speaker B: But the first part is the part that makes everything work.

Speaker A: That's so true.

Speaker B: And I think not enough people are doing that. Not enough people. I think a lot of people always look for the external strategy. And I guess a part of this is. Is like the internal work, the identity work, to then move it external. I always believe we have to establish internally to move externally.

Speaker A: But I think that the work you've done on you has bought this out

Speaker B: in your work 100%. It's much stronger than when it was.

Speaker A: When I had a brand with you right at the beginning, like 10 years ago or whatever it was. That was a very different process to now. Like, it felt like everything that you had learned, you have been able to bring to this. And so it makes it all worth it. Like, going through that is so tough when you have to go through this inner work, isn't it? You feel like you're birthing a baby is awful.

Speaker B: Uh, or like killing one off.

Speaker A: Yeah. Let go of old versions of you and to shed old versions of you to become the next version of who you are. I've done. It's taken me a year. It takes people less time than that normally. It's taken me a year to get here. And it's worth it. And you don't know it's gonna be worth it until you get there and you can really see what it's doing. I already feel just so much better about everything that I'm doing, and I'm, um, making less money and I'm all right, and it's okay.

Speaker B: But can I share something interesting that I've noticed? Because I think with both of us going through our own personal journeys, like, I've noticed it within both of us. I don't think it's about becoming something sometimes. I think a lot of the time it's an unbecoming. Like, I think all of your experiences that you've had in your life and the experiences that you've had in your. In the online space will have made you something else.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, it. You will put on the facades and the cloaks and all these other layers. Like, you almost imagine it like a onion. Right. Like, it's like all of the stinky, like, onion layers need to come off to find the core in the middle. And the core is you. And it's like, now that real, you can come out into the world.

Speaker A: And I think it's because I haven't Ever been brave enough to have that part of me exposed? Because if you are completely everything 100 real, you can be hurt quicker. And so it's taken me being okay with being hurt hurt, which is helped by being hurt quite a lot of times, if I'm honest. That's helped me because I don't fear it now. Like, I used to fear it. Um, but I definitely used to all the time. And I know where that comes from. I can see that comes from being bullied when I was younger and all these different things and being bullied online and all the rest of it, and the trolling that you get when you're successful. But I think that I've just got to a place where all of that stuff matters less than being 100% authentic. Like, you know, people saying, oh, well, she's going backwards. She's trying to make less money this year. That's failure in their eyes. I don't care. Like, I've got to a point where I do not care what the external validation is. I need to be at peace. And the way I can be at peace is to do the things that I know are right and that are aligned with who I am.

Speaker B: But isn't that just such a gorgeous thing to be able to share?

Speaker A: It's been so hard to get there 100%.

Speaker B: But, like, it's such a gorgeous thing to share because you'll inspire other people now who, for all the success in the world, don't feel successful. Because that's exactly how I felt. And that's exactly how you felt.

Speaker A: I didn't feel successful.

Speaker B: And why on earth are we building businesses that make us unhappy?

Speaker A: Yeah, I was making, like, 4 million a year, and people were saying how successful I was. And at the highest point, I felt the least successful because I was the least fulfilled.

Speaker B: But I would have 100 if I hadn't known. You looked at you and I thought you were, uh, having a life of liary.

Speaker A: I mean, my life was amazing, but inside, I. I wasn't feeling tons of joy. And, um, the times when I did feel joy were times when I was with my friends, not doing anything, you know, fancy or special or expensive. It was those times when I was feeling at my best. I was like, well, how can I get more of those times? And so then it became. Once I knew that, it became very easy to work backwards and go, well, what are the times that you've really enjoyed in the last few years? Let's just make an entire business of that. And it's helping others uh, it's impact. It's not anything to do with anything else. And if money comes from that or doesn't, that is how it has to be.

Speaker B: But I think, like, even though it might not be as popular yet, I don't think it will be long until it is really popular, because I think more and more people are realizing this isn't what I want.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So then why. Why can't we start from the beginning with what it is that we want? Yeah.

Speaker A: And I'm really good at that bit about taking someone and going, going, what do you actually want? Let's make a plan to get that life. I've helped so many people do that. Um, but between us, we can then, like, help those people become who they really want to be, because you can then brand that.

Speaker B: Huh? And, um, that is like, that. That's everything. That's the impact piece.

Speaker A: That's the impact piece. And that's the bit that's most important. But it's going to be so much fun watching you do all of this. But already, you know, it's not like you're only just starting to work with people at my level. You've worked with people way above my level. I've seen it. Um, and so that's why I always think of you as the secret behind them, because you're not. You don't really do the shouting of, look at these things I've done. I've noticed it because they've either said it or I've just gone, nikki's done that.

Speaker B: Do you know what's really interesting about that? I was speaking to Marie earlier. We were outside just having a conversation about it. And you wrote a post recently after you'd received that brand document, and it was a really beautiful post about how you felt like your whole mission was laid out in front of you, that you felt really excited. And I remember, like, going to Rob, like, and I was like, he was, like, sitting in bed. And I was like, oh, my God,

Speaker A: look, look, she's just said this.

Speaker B: And I still get just as, like, geeky and as excited about that because it really, really matters to me. And even though you wrote that post and four years ago, I would have been like, she didn't tag me in it. No one knows I did. It doesn't even matter. For Christ's sakes. Now. I was like, it wasn't. I didn't care. Like, I was like, to be able to give someone that. That moment of feeling that, to like, that to me was everything.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, I'm cool with being the secret now. Like, I'm a really, really good secret. But I'm cool with being it. Like, and I used to get so triggered by it. There are so many big names that I've worked with that, you know, like, somebody once described it as. It's like, you're like the plot twist and then they're, like, instantly elevated. And then suddenly it's like, whoa. And, like, so many people don't even know the big names that I've worked with. I don't even talk about the fact that I've worked with them. But the point is, is that. That I used to get bugged that they didn't, like, give me some, like.

Speaker A: But now you don't need it.

Speaker B: Shuffy badge. Like, to be like, thanks so much for doing it.

Speaker A: Now I'm like, your mission has changed. You know when you were saying before about, like, I felt like the face having to put on the makeup and be the showgirl. That's because that's what you were. And now your mission is so much deeper than that. It's to change things. And when that happens, you don't care. That's kind of what I was saying with me. Like, I don't care if people put me on some pedestal that I'm supposed to stay on to get to eight figures or to be on this stage or this stage or whatever. It no longer matters when your mission is more important than what people think about you.

Speaker B: 100 that's the difference between building a business for the showbiz and building a business where you're still you and still feel really, really good. When you're in the afterglow, when all the lights are out, when everything turns off, when you're not standing on the stages or doing the lives or doing the things like, who are you then? Because if you're not content with who you are, then it doesn't matter. You'll never be in the show. Busy.

Speaker A: That's right. That's so right. So moving forward, what are your plans?

Speaker B: So good.

Speaker A: So

Speaker B: we, um, are currently doing a rebrand for me, which is also really, really hard. Like, there's a pressure that comes.

Speaker A: That must be harder doing your own rebrand.

Speaker B: 100 because, like I said, like, it's really hard to see yourself. But I also am not getting anyone else to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I'm currently doing that. Uh, so the goal is. Is to. I mean, we've been doing it anyway. We've just brought out the big brand theory. And basically my mission is to create more and more and more and more world class brands. So we've got a really, really exciting, like bougie boutique agency that's coming out that's going to be for people that are successful and having that sort of in between moment and they know they need to shift. So I want to create world class brands. Like, I want to create the brands where people really stop and pay attention because I really want to raise the bar. Like, I think we've got a lot of similarities in this, the impact piece. Like, I think that we can change the industry and the best way that I can do that with the skill set that I've got is to change at, uh, the top. Because if I can change at the top, they'll help all the other people anyway. So then I'm like, right, okay, so then that's the mission.

Speaker A: This is the very last podcast of series two and you are the last person on the podcast. And I love that we finished with this because I think that the main thing that I wanted to show with this whole series is that that it's been tough in the industry, there's been some dark times in the industry and that we can come out the other side and we can change the industry if we just put impact first. Uh, and I think you're showing that all the way. Thank you. Thank you for being here.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Making Money Online. If you want to start your online business journey, you can get my free course, Fabulous Foundations, right now in the show notes. I'll see you next week for another episode.