How Low Code Transformed Education Data Management

Speaker A: Foreign

Speaker B: welcome to Caspio's Low Code High Impact podcast. I'm your host Paul Quirk and on this show we uncover how businesses are using low code to drive real results. Each episode brings you insights, practical tips and success stories that showcase the power of Low code. Today I'm joined by Karen Elfner from Clemson University. Karen, welcome and thank you for joining Caspio Podcast today.

Speaker A: Thank you for having me.

Speaker B: Okay, to start us off, can you please introduce yourself and share with everyone a little bit about your background and your current role at Clemson University?

Speaker A: Okay. Well I have um, a pretty varied background. Um, I really began as a special educator and researcher with individuals with challenging behavior and um, worked in schools and doing research in schools, mostly like single subject research and that type of data. But then we got involved in doing some school wide systems um, and that required a different kind of data, a ah, different kind of um, fidelity and outcome data to track what we're doing and is it working. And through the evolution of that um, framework that we developed, I became the person who collected the data even though I wasn't an evaluator or a data scientist or anything. So um, I kind of became the evaluator um, in this model and that's been my primary role for about 25 years is collecting data, uh, sharing data, monitoring data, developing reports, using because our framework is very data based, um, from all aspects. So I've done that on a project in Florida for about 25 years and then I just a couple years ago started with the project here at Clemson University doing a similar model in the state here.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. So for people that are watching this podcast, um, that don't know Clemson University, can you provide an overview of what the university does and what makes it unique in the state and across the region?

Speaker A: Uh well Clemson is one of uh, the major state universities in South Carolina and um, I am in the College of Education at Clemson University. And Clemson is really known for a lot of different kinds of programs uh, in the state. Um, for instance the state has a lot of manufacturing a lot of um, electronic um development and so they have a lot of expertise in a lot of areas. My particular area is in education, in special education. And our project while we um, are housed in Clemson University, we're funded, we're grant funded through uh, the state Department of education. So developing kind of a working relationship between the state university and the state department um, of education, trying to build a bridge and be supportive because educators need to come out to work in the education field and so the more collaborative we can be between the university and the state department that oversees education for the state, um, the, the better off everyone will be.

Speaker B: I didn't realize um, Karen, how long the university has been established, like over 135 years. I was quite astonished with over 160,000 students. And there was a quote that I read off the website which resonated so much at Clemson. We believe in the value of hard work and we pursue the work tirelessly. We believe that our collective calling as a university is to change lives, change perception, and through our work, to change the world. What an amazing quote that is to get everybody energized.

Speaker A: Yeah. One of the things um, that I first learned about the university was um, that they have a very strong um, program for individuals with disabilities, enabling them and having them become part of the university community. So it's very inclusive and they um, they have a lot of programs that people come from all over to have their young person with disabilities be able to um, participate in because they can excel and achieve things that um, because of this expectation that we can all achieve.

Speaker B: Love it. It just resonated so well. And I know obviously um, you worked with Caspio. I think it's over 10 years ago now. So what prompted you to return to Caspio for the current project that you've got and what problem are you trying to solve?

Speaker A: Yeah, so my initial experience with Caspio I think is probably going on 20 years ago.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's even further. It's like 50. I've just been looking at the data. Yeah.

Speaker A: Been a while. I was doing just some consulting for um, ah, ah, an agency that provided support for families that had students or children with disabilities. And they needed some help evaluating because they had a federal grant. They have to be able to demonstrate that they're doing the work and that's making a positive impact. So I helped them to develop measures to track what was happening. And they had people all over the state and they needed a way for people in different areas to submit their information about training and meetings and impact. And uh, so I learned about Caspio at that point. There weren't very many um, platforms out there at that time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I was able, with no coding or no actual experience in anything other than maybe some Microsoft access to um, develop these portals so that people could submit their data. And then I could also um, have a relational database that then I could use to develop reports and things for um, the funder.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that was a while ago. So then when I left Florida in the Florida project I was with, we had a lot of money. We had a lot, lot of grants, a lot of money and we hired programmers and data managers and um, we developed our own web, uh, evaluation systems from scratch, which took a lot of money, a lot of time. Um, and then I came to start this project here in South Carolina where they have only, um, you know, a very limited budget as we're just starting. And so, but I understood what we needed in terms of uh, what kind of data and information and reporting with it we would need to do. So we actually did an investigation, um, of probably about 10 or 12 platforms that were low, no code. And of course I identified Caspio as one that I had used before and wanted to try. Um, and so we, we explored, my colleague and I, who are overseeing it, um, explored all of these different platforms. We had a rubric where we were looking at does it have this functionality, what, you know, all the costs, um, the learning, uh, opportunities to be able to use it effectively and all those things. And Caspio came out on top. And then we launched our relationship with Caspio and of course Caspio now is a very different product than it was when I initially began with them.

Speaker B: Can you remember, Karen, what was kind of the key decision maker for you to move forward with Caspio?

Speaker A: Yes, um, we were on the fence. Um, we were looking at a Microsoft product because the university supported, is a Microsoft platform supporting organization. But when we started to try to learn a little bit about how might work, like what would we need, uh, what would we need to know and learn to be able to use this, not being coders or programmers. And what we found was that even when we signed up for the classes, we didn't understand, like we would sit there for hours in a class and feel like we hadn't made any progress in terms of being able to use the platform.

Speaker B: That's not good. Right.

Speaker A: So that is not a good sign, um, because our primary role isn't to learn a system, of course.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's to do the program work. Right. So, um, we didn't have that kind of time to invest. And then, um, when we looked at some of the professional learning for Caspio, um, it was very impressive. It was just, it was so much easier to comprehend, to digest, to feel like we could wrap our heads around and really hit the ground running with the product rather than having to spend weeks or months, uh, learning.

Speaker B: I think what um, really impresses me, we've recorded around 50 of these podcasts now over the last couple of years and a Lot of the people that ah, are working with Caspio, um, I've got no technical background whatsoever. So they come through and they do the trainings and the learnings, the tutorials and they've built some amazing applications and it's just staggering to see what people can create um, without having a technical background that's not needed. So it just kind of echoes with what you're saying there.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. Um, we were able to pretty much um. Well because I have some background in terms of, I understand the concept behind what happens. I just always had data management and programmers who did the work. Um, so I think that was helpful going into it. Like I understood some of those basic concepts and how to establish a relational um, database and that sort of thing. But um, so once we, once we got going though the other thing that was really even more unexpected than we anticipated was the structure for getting you launched. So we had a support person, they had different um, elements of uh, that were being provided to us. You can access this, you get free expert sessions. Um, they were checking back in. How is it working? Are you having any problems? So it felt very much like um, we weren't just once we signed up we had someone checking in and going alongside of us as we began our journey into using the Caspio platform which felt very helpful.

Speaker B: I think that's the most important element Karen is once you've signed up customers are excited to use the product and the service and they want some quick wins during the first 90 days. So it's making sure that the customer's aware that we're going to partner them with on this journey um, for success. And it's really that we're here from a support perspective. We have our tutorials, we have our 247 support team as well and obviously the cloud customer success team as well to add some more um, support management around the development of the application. So I think that so critical, the onboarding part is to make sure that customers know that we're on this journey with them.

Speaker A: Yeah. And uh, we were able to initially jump in and do ah, a basic use of the system pretty much independently. Um, and then when it got to where I wanted to do some things that didn't have a video that weren't directly um, explained explicitly. Um then sometimes I would jump into one of the guided instructions and at the end there's a little time and then I could like throw in my question and then you would answer it or um, and then you develop really expanded the Flex system and that's when I was really able to do a lot more quickly uh, in terms of the outside our other project staff user interface. Um, so that has been really helpful for us. The Flex.

Speaker B: Yeah. So um, what does the application do Karen? Um, who uses it and what do they do with it?

Speaker A: Yeah, so um, we use it for program evaluation. So we're tracking um, everything we do with our partner. It's in school system, so our partner districts and schools. So we, it's kind of like imagine it to be a client. One of the struggles, just kind of an aside that I've had in all these products all over the last 30 years is that they're very much designed for business orientation and if you're in a social service or um, program evaluation, it's a little bit like a round peg in a square hole. Um, it doesn't quite fit. Um, but um, you know we've been able to kind of make, maneuver and make those changes. So we track um, inputs and outputs. So we track who's participating. So we need to know who our like clients are. We need to know what they're receiving. So what kind of training, what's the, their impression of the training, their evaluation of those. And then we also track their implementation. So we use evidence based practice which have validated measures. So we have them complete the validated measures and then we also are tracking the change that we are hoping to see, which in our case are student behaviors, uh, exclusionary practices which we hope diminish. And so we are tracking inputs, implementation and outcomes. And so the people who are submitting the data might be the school teams, leadership teams that are going through our um, professional learning. They have to take the measures, complete um, those surveys. It might be all the staff at the school doing a particular kind of survey or it might be just the leadership team. So we needed things that um, had multi layers of who's accessing what, um, and then we have our project staff because we need to be able to submit when we do a learning event or a meeting. And then um, and then we need to be able to report back those data in a way that both the school teams can see the results of these surveys that they're completing or the impact that their implementation is having on their student outcomes. So um, so we have a variety of ways that we're using it and different users access it for different purposes.

Speaker B: So Karen, how were you managing the surveys in the student um, support data across the districts in the schools before you started to work with Caspio?

Speaker A: Uh, when I started here, um, at Clemson. We were using an Access database.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And we would use Qualtrics to, to collect the surveys. Then you have to import and I didn't have the skills to make it a smooth uh, import. So it would be like download, then reorganize, reformat, and then put it into the um, Access database. Um, so it was clunky. Um, we would do surveys, maybe even in paper and then you'd have to hand enter those when you have all kinds of problems with data error and entry error and all of that. So um, it was clunky in terms of getting the data all in one place. But it was also um, not supported to be able to use the web version. So we would have to download it, use it, put it back onto the server and um, it was tedious. And then we could just see that we were not going to be able to go where we wanted to go in terms of having a platform where people could submit the data and then we could create reports and information to share back.

Speaker B: Yeah. You mentioned Microsoft Access and Qualtrics. How important is that integration piece into your application?

Speaker A: Um, well, we are actually building it all so that it'll all happen in Caspio. Right now we have a few things that are still happening in Qualtrics. Yeah. Um, but that's just because we're slow in building and we haven't built all the tools yet into the Caspio. But that is definitely our vision. Um, over probably within the next year we'll have moved everything into the same just the Caspio platform.

Speaker B: Yeah. You've also mentioned that you're very much self taught. Um, with low code. How's your relationship now with low code? Do you feel comfortable using it and kind of experimenting with new capabilities and features?

Speaker A: Um, I'd say I, I never feel really comfortable but I do get very excited when I can make things happen the way that I want to make them happen. Um, and one of the, probably one of the things that have been most helpful in my being able to achieve, like I'll have an idea about what I want to be able to do and then it may be going through the videos and the tutorials and the um, guides and things. Didn't quite answer my question. But I will go and do the chat and I would say, I mean I do the chat. If I'm working in Caspio, I'm doing the chat like at least once a day really when I'm.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it is so helpful. I mean I can share with them what I'm doing. I can. Or I can give them access for you know, at uh, in a worst case scenario if I can't explain it in a way that they can then problem solve it. And I think I can only think of uh, maybe two times in the couple years I've been doing this that I didn't get my answer in that chat session. It's a little tedious because you have to send a message and wait and then they send it back. But the fact that I can get my solution uh, makes all the difference to you know, I can't move forward until I can get that solution.

Speaker B: So yeah, it's good to know you've got support um, when you need it, which is great to hear. Just um, kind of switching gears a little bit. I know that um, you're currently using Caspio features such as AI webhooks and integrations. Um, and you're also looking at exploring migrating to Flex environment as well. So what are you seeing the biggest gains from some of these features for you?

Speaker A: Uh, well, for Flex, um, it's much easier for me to create um, aesthetically pleasing platforms pages applications that then uh, in deploying those is much easier than if I have to do it through Bridge and then build it into my own website because then I have to have the website skills as well as which um, which I don't. So that has been really helpful for me. We, we have definitely used the QR, um, code generator, um, and that's been very helpful for us because we do a lot of remote surveys and we'll be in a presentation and then can, can share that. So that was, that was a really helpful link. Um, so I mean I think I'm still learning about all the features and the way that they can support our work. Um, but so far um, we've been able to do what we aim to do.

Speaker B: That's great to hear. So if you could look back over the last couple of years. Karen, what's up? What's been the most rewarding part of building the application to where you kind of the concept where you are to where you are today.

Speaker A: Um, I think seeing other people be able to use it because for so long it was just all on the back end and all the work I did and nobody could appreciate or see it, uh, until it became something that other people on the outside side of us could interface with. So seeing our school teams be able to access and submit and track their percentage of responses and that sort of thing and then being able to see them pull up their reports and all, um, and then Our own staff because we've developed um, like event reports so they can go and look at a menu of things and, and see, oh, look at all the work we've done, which all in one place. Visually, um, helps to make a point that you can't do when it's 15 separate reports that are hidden in spreadsheets somewhere. So I think that's been the best part for me is when I finally got to the point where other people were interfacing with uh, the applications.

Speaker B: Okay, so kind of wrapping this up then. So if anybody that's watching um, this podcast, especially the institutions or state initiatives considering CASPI or low code, what advice would you give them?

Speaker A: Well, I mean, I think particularly in this time when the kinds of grant funding that I've most of my career access are less available than ever and the funding to be able to have programmers and developers on your staff is probably, I mean a lot of people can't do that right now. So I think that this could be a real opportunity for um, social services and programs like um, ours, nonprofits to be able to um, efficiently gather and use information and then uh, that would hopefully be able to be leveraged to getting more grants. Because now I can demonstrate we've accomplished, these are the things we've done, these are the outcomes that, that we have, um, in a nice professional um, platform. So that then it kind of makes it clear that we're worthy of getting that additional funding. So I think that it could be very helpful. I work with other state project evaluators, um, in our field and many of them don't have programmers or funding. So um, I try to share with them kind of my experience of um, how we've been able to use the uh, Caspio in order to capture and um, do our work really in a more effective way.

Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, um, Karen, so thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for sharing your Caspian Loco journey. It's been really interesting talking with you today and seeing where you've gone from two years ago to where you are now, obviously going back 15, 20 years. We really appreciate the ongoing um, partnership with you. So thank you so much for your time. Karen.

Speaker A: Oh, uh, you're welcome. Bye.

Speaker B: To get more information about our low code platform, please visit caspio.com and visit our YouTube channel to learn more. Bye for now.