58: The No Project: Brandi Holder’s 30-Day Challenge for Business Growth

Speaker A: Today's episode is about a concept that I thought was extremely interesting. It's called the no Challenge, and it's going to help you if you struggle with online visibility, especially if content creation isn't your strongest suit. Now, introducing the no Challenge is Brandi Holder. I met her on LinkedIn, and I'm going to tell you all about it during the course of our conversation. But the cool thing about this concept is that it's about receiving 30 no's in 30 days. And it was her way of creating a system to become more visible online, something that she could not only implement, but sustain on an ongoing basis. She also tracked the data and she shares it with us today to show what the impact of her no Challenge has been. Now, what I love about this challenge is that she came up with this idea on her own as a way to meet her business goals, and she used her own creativity to come up with a system that she could use in her business. And I love it because instead of following some templated formula, she thought about what her main challenge was. She thought about how she could overcome it, and she created a process that is not just sustainable, but actually fun. And so give the show a listen. Let me know what you think about it once you reach the end. You can reach me on Instagram or on LinkedIn. I would love to hear your thoughts. Now, let's get into this.

Speaker B: Welcome to the show. I have a very exciting guest for you to meet today, and her name is Brandi Holder. She's an incredible leadership coach working with solo entrepreneurs, and we actually met on LinkedIn. I can't wait to tell you about how we connected. But before we get into all of that, here's what you need to know about Brandi. Eleven years ago, she walked away from a, uh, corporate marketing career because the. The very traits and skills that made her good at her job made her a terrible employee. And I'm quoting her here, I'm sure she was an excellent employee, but we'll definitely dig into that in just a minute. For now, what you need to know is that Brandi today helps coaches, consultants, and founders lean into their strengths so that they can build businesses that are both more profitable and filled with greater peace. She's also writing a book about rebuilding your life after everything you thought you knew about yourself falls apart. So we're going to have to ask about that, too, because it sounds like a compelling title. But for now, welcome to the show. Randy, I'm so glad that you're here.

Speaker C: Julia, how fun is this? Just A few months ago, we were strangers, and now I get to be here with you and everyone who took time out of their day to listen in. So thank you for that and thank you for that very warm introduction.

Speaker B: It's great to have you here. And our whole relationship and friendship has been built off, uh, a cold pitch, basically, that you sent me on LinkedIn and that I was a little bit hesitant about at the beginning. And so I'd love to tell our listeners about it. What led you to send me a message? Because there's a whole story behind that.

Speaker C: I think this is the stuff of life right here. Like, when we go into business for ourself, I think sometimes we lose the spark because it's not an easy thing to be in business for yourself and it's not easy to find clients. I think that it can be made more simple by systems. And the longer you're in it, the more that you get used to what's required of you. But I think that was a really long way of saying, what. What way can you bring the fun back here?

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: And so this, this NO project started for me because I was sitting in all of this negative energy, right? Like, you turn on the news or even open LinkedIn and there's all these nasty headlines about terrible things happening around the world, these LinkedIn narratives running that people are complaining about pitch slaps and people talking about how hard it is and nobody's buying and the economy is crashing, and you can really get really wrapped up in that and have a really soft heart. And I felt like all of this stuff is coming at me all day from all of these really credible sources. What's the point? What's the point of me even trying to build something right now? And so when I started working with my own coach, I realized I was letting other people's data become my data. And I decided to run my own experiment, which I turned into the 30 no's in 30 days. And at about month two, you were somebody that I asked to come onto a call with me, and that is how we met.

Speaker B: Yeah, I was so fascinated to learn about this NO project. But let's rewind to the very beginning, just to put our listeners in a situation. I was just on LinkedIn checking my DMs and I saw a message for you that was actually very nice and very warm. You complimented something about my profile, and then you suggested that you were open to a call if I was up to it. And so I looked at your profile and I was like, yeah, okay. Seems could be compatible business wise. But I'm always hesitant to accept calls because I'm always expecting like some type of a, uh, pitch slap or that the person on the other side is going to ask me for something that I probably don't want to say yes to right in the moment. And so when we got it on the call, that was not at all your vibe. And it was very interesting because we started from a very cold conversation where I was just kind of like thinking like, what do you want? And then it warmed up super quickly and I started asking you about, I think you mentioned the fact that this is something that you do, that you send messages to people because you'd rather network face to face. And so I got curious and I started asking you about like your process and how does it work and what results have you seen. And then that's where you introduced me to this whole no challenge. So if you don't, uh, mind, could you tell us a little bit about what the no challenge entails?

Speaker C: It's so funny because I, I, that was a really pivotal call for me because I also want to remind people that as I go through this information, when you are the person you are in your heart, that's going to shine brightly out of there. So when we hesitate and uh, we say, I don't want to be slimy and I don't want to be this and I don't want to be that, if that's not who you are in your heart, that is going to shine out. And that is, I think, how we moved our relationship forward. I said something really complimentary about you because I saw value in something in your profile. It came from my heart. And when you got on the call with me, your heart was open to that. And then you could see what I, what we were there to do. And so I really started to think about that. And in my world, opportunities happen after a conversation occurs, right? So if the world is saying no one is buying, how could I collect data? That's not the case. I have to increase my volume of conversations, which means I have to make more asks. And then how do I know if I'm being really vigorously making an effort toward that goal? That meant the amount of no's has to go up. So you know what I mean? There's a thousand versions of this thing running around. Just make the ask. And you can't get a yes without getting a no. And so those sound bites sound really good until you're sitting there staring at your computer and wondering where to start. If you have your own business. We used to be able to get by referrals and by putting information out and by showcasing ourselves as experts in 2026, that's gone. It's not here anymore. And, uh, that's a very critical and essential part. But that's table stakes now. And if you want to move your business forward, especially if you are at the very beginning or if you've recently changed your offer, you have to make the ask. You have to put yourself out there. And that's scary for a lot of reasons. I think something that people struggle with a lot is it's not that they can't, it's that, uh, they're sitting there without a system and a lot of practice. Right. So one of the first things I did was to give myself a timeframe of how long I was gonna commit to this. That was very reasonable in my life. And then I set up the asks I was gonna make so that I was not searching for the words in the middle of the call with the stranger. Right. So we have this really great call. And then I go, okay, thank you, Matt. That helped me because we got on the call, but it didn't. It's not moving anything forward. So in our call, I think you asked me to come on the podcast, but I also asked you to do a, um, mini video collab with me. Right. It's great to have the conversation, but if you find someone in your world who is exciting and fun or could have potential for partnership or a relationship or an opportunity, you still have to go and move that forward. And so I created a lot of asks upfront in my own system that were low stakes. Things like inviting a stranger to a call after a conversation that's already happened in the DMs, or inviting someone to do those video collabs with me. And then also being ready for the higher stakes things like inviting people into a sales conversation if they have expressed a challenge you can help with, or getting permission to send that proposal, and, um, having it at a rate that makes sense for your business. And so that, for me was the thing. It was like, yes, the project, but also how can I create a system that's going to set me up for success so that I'm not just sitting there wondering what to do? Because wondering what to do isn't moving the thing forward.

Speaker B: I love how specific your asks are and how they go from lower stakes to higher stakes. So you have three different asks for three different situations. And that also from our conversation, what I found really fun and exciting was how you reframed the whole no situation by no. My goal is to get rejected. I want to get 30 no's in 30 days. And so now I'm not measuring success by whether or not people say yes to me. I'm measuring it by did I get 30 no's. And I love that, how you totally turn that whole thing on its head.

Speaker C: Yeah, I'm so glad. And that's really why I did it. And I have to tell you, this is the first time I'm actually sharing all of this data. So your show today is the first time that I'm really talking about this in public and sharing the data, because I started this for 30 days, but I actually enjoyed it so much that I've been doing it ever since. And so I have some. Some numbers I'll share with you on the data I've collected. So I failed the project because in the first 30 days, the goal was to get 30 no's. I only made 28 asks, which is awesome, by the way. You don't have to make it all the way. It's the goal is to get it in motion. So in those first 30 days, I made 28 asks and I got seven no's. But I also booked 13 calls and I got three no, three new intros. Then. Now that's turned into 96 asks. And 52 people said yes to something. Some booked calls, some became clients, some referred me, some invited me to speak at events on, um, panels or in their podcasts. And I got some really incredible third party PR by making an ask. So I really want to say something really important before we move on. But the part that matters to me the most on this is that 36 of those asks were things I would not have asked before this project because I assumed the negative news was true. So the math is not that. I got a nearly 60% yes rate on my asks, which is phenomenal, by the way. And anybody can get that. The math is that I gained 52 opportunities, 36 of which I would not have even attempted. So that's the antidote to the noise. It's not this sugary optimism. It's collecting your own data instead of borrowing what's happening out there. Because the loudest voice in the room is not always the true voice. And that's really what I have learned in this whole thing. It has opened up my world in a totally different way.

Speaker B: How cool. Um, about that. What I really liked about a couple of things, a bit like the no challenge, first of all, is that from this onset, like you're measuring your effort, like you're taking kind of control of the situation by measuring your efforts, not how the other person responds. Right. So that really gives you a whole different sense of agency. And once you that is in place for me, that turns into fun because now it's a challenge against myself. Let's say, what can I achieve? The data doesn't depend on other people. It really depends on me, which makes it so much more doable. And then I love how you shared your numbers because I'm such a data nerd. And so like really seeing the impact in such a short term of actually putting yourself out there with these like low, medium and higher stakes asks. So none of it is so uncomfortable for your nervous system that it can't be handled. It's actually quite a gentle way to ease yourself into this new process. And I just. This one of the things about you that I love, like you are extremely creative in how you face situations and you build your own system very creatively. And then, yeah, look at the results. I think it's amazing.

Speaker C: Thank you so much. That is so kind. I think the thing that you said about agency is the most important part because when you give people their own free will and agency and you take yourself out of their wallet, out of their decision making process, you do put it back on you. And I think that what you said there was such an important thing. Like if someone's listening in, I think they need to re hit that 15 second back button and re listen to that. Because that's the whole thing. That's the entire thing about this. I also want to make very clear the distinction here for me was I was not afraid of rejection. Some people are. I can hear no. And I think it's really important if you start something like this to know where you are on that. I was getting really lost in a story that nobody is buying and that trust is down, which is true in some sense, but I have the power to change that. And that hesitation was blunting my growth. So. But if you are a person who is afraid of rejection, which is a very valid and real thing, especially if you're starting out new or you've changed something that you're doing, or you've raised your prices, you're probably gonna have that at every level of your business. I think it's worth really understanding where you are, um, on that first, because this project will snap you out of that. Right. You can't come away from a month of asking people for things and not be changed in some way. But I think it's also knowing where you are because it's exactly like you said, being gentle with yourself when you're coming in is how you set yourself up for success. So you want to have more of those low stakes asks up front of like making something that you can create a collaboration with or even asking for a referral from someone who's already warm or even in that moment, if you can't think of anything else, saying, this was a really great call. Can we do this again in 60 days? So I think that's the other thing I didn't mention earlier. I took the noise out of my brain by saying, I'm going to ask every single person for something. So then I couldn't negotiate in the call. I could no longer negotiate with myself on what I was going to do. The goal there was to say, I'm going to ask them for something, whether it's just another call or a referral or an opportunity to collaborate. And so I think those are really important distinctions to drop into because I don't want to. I never want advice to feel very blanketed out there because it's not the same starting point for everybody. But you can use this no matter where you're starting because it will open up opportunity for you.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, I think it transpires, at least it does for me, like how creative you are and how gentle you are in this approach. You're obviously not following a cookie cutter method at all. You are like going at it creatively. Which actually brings me to your intro where you had told me about how in corporate you, uh, were a terrible image employee because your traits made you good at marketing but bad at being an employee. So let's talk about that because you're clearly very creative. You clearly go about things in a very different way that it's very solution oriented. So I'd love to know why you think it made you bad at being an employee.

Speaker C: It's so funny to me because this, that realization about myself really became the thesis of my work. And what I realized when I was in corporate America is very structured. You have a boss, you have bosses bosses, you have systems, you have, this is the way we do things, this is the manual. And I don't like that for my personality. There's a reason things work and there's a reason you do them. And I totally respect that. If you can tell me why, if you're handing me the employee manual and you're giving me a complete understanding of why we do Things the way that they do, I'm actually really cool with that. But if you can't tell me a deeper why that, especially a, uh, why that's serving the employees and the customer, I'm going to be in there digging around for a better way, which is not something that works really well in corporate America. I have a lot of creativity around how to make the user experience the person, experience the person at the center, how to make that, uh, a really good experience for them. And that just doesn't always work in a system that's designed to be exactly how it is. And so once I started to really realize that about myself, I knew that was. Although I was there and it was going well and I was making a lot of money and I always got promotions because I could lead people. That's not where I wanted to be. And I didn't exactly know where I wanted to be. I just didn't think that was the best fit for me. And so when I left and started working really closely with CEOs and founders who especially were in the startup world, and sitting right next to them in the chair as a peer, I could see that exact same thing happening to them, where the strengths that got them there were then becoming the ceiling of where they wanted to go. So if you're a CEO who is very visionary, you build these amazing things that most of us can't even think about and bring into the market. But being a visionary usually drives your team crazy because you're like, let's do this now. Let's get into that and let's test this data and this tech and your, you're blasting out all these great, wonderful opportunities and your team cannot keep up with that. And so that string really then becomes a ceiling. And so once I started to understand my story of how I got there and see that with perfectionism, which then also blunts your growth, started to see that everywhere. And that really became the problem I started to solve in my own business was, we're not changing you. I'm not taking your weaknesses and making them better. I'm actually talking about how we utilize your strengths to make you go the place you want to go. Right? Like, how do we make them better and stronger for you so that you feel really great in the work that you're doing?

Speaker B: That's amazing and it's true. It applies to a lot of different aspects. Of course, I'm thinking of social media, for example. When you're looking at how your, your, uh, post analytics or your content is performing, you don't look at all of it. You just look at what did. Well, you try to figure out why it worked and how you can replicate it. You don't sit there and stress about what didn't work. You just, you don't even look at that. You just look at what worked. How can we replicate this and make it even better?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Because you could spend time getting back and tweaking those posts. But if we are looking at limited time and capacity, which most of us are, it makes so much more sense to look at what worked and see, you know, if you could create some type of formula there. And also looking at uh, what worked, let's be honest about it, give this a dopamine hit.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: We're like, this was awesome and I enjoyed it and why not invite more of that into our lives where we can, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. And also in, in M business you can't be good at everything. So you have to just lean into what you're good at and get people in your team that can support you at what you're not good at or ah, build better systems so you don't have to start from scratch every time you have to do those tasks.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Hiring people has been a great unlock for me.

Speaker B: What are you focusing on now in your own business?

Speaker A: Having more support.

Speaker C: So really I decided last year that I had to have a coach in all times. That's just become an absolute non negotiable for me. I've had five and I've had times when I was without them. And that creativity that you see in me I think is probably somewhat natural because I believe that we all have that capacity. But creativity unlocks when you reduce your stress levels full stop. By the way, I'm not. That is a hill I will get on and I will just die there. Because when you are fully in the stress response, if you're surrounded by the doom and gloom and you're trying to manage all the parts by yourself and figure out everything all by yourself, your brain is literally in a different place that you, the blood flow has changed. You cannot access creative inner thinking. So for me I have to have people in my life that support me while I'm moving forward. That question, my ideas, that question where I'm trying to take it. And so having a coach in my world, I'm writing a book right now and so I'm doing the messy editing piece of that and I eventually do want to hand that off to a bona fide editor who does that for a living because that's also One more thing off my plate, who's ah, handing it to someone who's good at it. Right. And then someone like you. Think about what you're doing for people instead of us having to do the whole thing by ourselves, having to come up with the strategy, having to come up with the perfect words and where you're putting it in distribution, just hand pieces like that off, it's a time saver, but it's also reducing your stress so that you can work in the places where you are creative and where you do like to do the work.

Speaker B: Yeah, my clients say they hate tech. It's so funny because I'm like, oh, I'm so excited. I love tech. I love that we're now using, I don't know, flodesk. I love that now we know the conversion rates of all of the opt in pages and my clients are like, good, because I hate it.

Speaker C: Such a relief when you can hand something off to somebody, especially somebody who gets really nerdy about a thing that you don't like to do.

Speaker B: You, uh, also mentioned like all these new opportunities and not just opportunities, but all the new people that you've met since you've been doing this. No challenge. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about that. Any details you'd like to share?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's been a ride and I've been doing this for a really long time. I've been solo now for 11 years, which has, is uh, a shocker to me that it's gone that long. And it's just, it's. I don't know, I just did not ever see that for myself. And so I've had a lot of really cool opportunities with startup. I've worked in a lot of different industries in public safety, which was a really cool place to be. I've worked in government work. I've worked just with a lot of people doing a lot of different things. But this last six months I think has probably been the most exciting for me because I've had all this opportunity against a backdrop of so much negativity. People's businesses legitimately went dry in 2025 and the first part of 2026. And I don't want to negate that in any way because that was a very real thing that was happening. But instead of letting that be the dominant story in my life, I decided that I wanted something different and I had to go out and get that in a different way. And now I've had all these opportunities where I've met people all over the world this morning. I'm in Spain this afternoon. Right after this I'm going to be in Colorado. I'm going to be in New York City later in the day from an opportunity that came to me from a third party pr, a really big piece of PR that I got because I asked a journalist to consider my story for a pitch. You know, sales conversation this week with somebody who's had a 30 year writing career for the big dogs. And I'm talking like the Googles. That's an opportunity that I would not have considered before because nobody's buying. Right. And then before that I was recording in again in New York City and out in Michigan. That's been my week this week. And then I onboarded a new client that came to me from somebody who said he was not spending any money this year. So it's just really interesting. Like uh, yes, you can fall into the narrative that's out there, but I would challenge all of us to find a way to collect some different evidence because not only is the opportunity increased, but I've met really amazing cool people like Julia. I think you're somebody who's going to be in my life for a lifetime now. Now how cool is that? And it just changed my brain because my brain now sees opportunity instead of news stories. And I think that for me has been the biggest takeaway that I get to now share with all of the people who are coming into my world and that that's the greater impact when we, when our own light shines so brightly, we shine that into others. We can't help it. It's infectious. And then they take that into their worlds too. So I think that's been like the coolest takeaway for me so far.

Speaker B: Yeah. And uh, actually I did a reel. I need to share it with you. But I did a reel based on like when we met. It was a little storytelling reel about like how it really made me think about all these people, call them like limiting beliefs or whatever, but stories that I had just assumed to be true. Like that when people DM me, it's going to be a pitch. And then I was like, why am I even thinking that? First of all, we had a wonderful conversation. Was so fun. But looking back, of all the people that had the enemy to get on a call, the majority did not pitch me. Just one person did. And she wasn't even slimy about it. It was just not a good fit. But uh, my thoughts about DMS are not matching my lived experience. And I think also the longer we're alive, the more we have the time to take on these false beliefs or, uh, beliefs that maybe were true at some point, but they're not anymore. And so we have to do cleansing process of our belief system to make sure that it still reflects our reality as we live it. Because often the things that we tell ourselves aren't true.

Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, that's so fun. And I think that's the whole point of creating things in our business, because we feel in those moments when we create them that it's for us to solve a problem. But look at the impact of something so tiny and how that's gonna show up for you and change a belief in you. And that's. I don't know. I think that's the whole point.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And these limiting beliefs, it's exactly what you said. Uh, we install them early in our lives, and then I think we just never question them until something else comes along or a person comes along. Like, I got here through a lot of amazing coaches that came into my life and people that I've invited in that showed me things that were different. Like, I. You don't get there by yourself.

Speaker B: And you have to be in environments where those beliefs are challenged that you have really interesting conversations with people who have new points of view that they can expose you to so you can grow, which is hard to do when you live like myself alone and work remotely. My friends know nothing about my job. When I try to explain it, like, they don't understand. They're so low tech. Right. And so I have to look for opportunities to meet people. And in fact, after we talked, I was like, like networking online. I need to really get the ball rolling on that because I haven't done it. And then I got on a bunch of different calls with amazing people again, all over the world doing cool stuff. So it's just like changing those beliefs that kind of keep you hidden.

Speaker C: Yeah, that. That's the whole point. All of that long thing that I told you, the. The too long, didn't read version is it challenges exactly what you said. It challenges those beliefs that are keeping you where you are.

Speaker B: For me, what's. What is cool is the fun aspect. Because when you're in that kind of negative mindset, nothing's fun, everything is bad. And then you challenge that and you're like, oh, my God, that's so fun. Oh, my God, I met this person. Oh, my God. I just got introduced to that person. Oh, I just was. And things start to move in a new ways.

Speaker C: Yeah, I Heard a leader say one time, and I think it was, he was talking about all the planes being grounded after 9 11, which obviously is a very sad incident in our world history. But he was talking about how he was able to get the business to be able to come back after that. And I don't want to give too much credit to the airline industry because I know that not everybody likes the airline industry right now. It's expensive to fly, all of that. But he said something that stuck with me, and he said, it's much easier to make movement when all the planes are up in the air than when they're all grounded. And I think that's the truth in business too. If we feel like there's nothing happening and we don't know what to do and there's no opportunity, it's really hard to get your planes back in the air. But once that first one takes off, there's energy behind it. And so that's the lift. It's how do you create real momentum, not just the motion of busy work, but how are you getting that first plane up? Because once that first plane goes up, everything else starts going. And I think that's just a really important thing that you said. It's like, how do we make something move? But also the fun. And I think that was the biggest takeaway for me is like, where do I add more fun back to this?

Speaker B: Exactly. Because if it's not fun, then you're not gonna do it. There's only so much you can make yourself do until you drop it.

Speaker C: Yeah. And what's really interesting is if you look at my numbers, nearly 60% said yes to something. Which means out of those 96 asks, 40% of them said no. That's a significant amount of no's. But I have to tell you, nobody was rude to me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Not one single person threw a tomato at me. Right. Think the difference is I'm not going to say cold email doesn't work or whatever. It doesn't work for me. It's not my jam. But I see people who do it and do it well with a lot of different ways of sending things in the mail and doing some different things. But I think this worked for me because again, we talked about it being a gentle ramp. But also, I wasn't just pitch slapping people. I was saying like, hey, I read this thing that you wrote and it was really cool. We opened up a conversation and I said something as simple as, if you make room in your schedule for networking calls, I'd love to grab 20 minutes with you. Something so easy. Some people ghosted. Right. Some people just take the road of no response. Some people just say yes. And so that's the thing. Nobody was rude to me. I had one guy, bro, splain to me about how he doesn't have time for call. He sent me, like, the thing was this long, like several paragraphs in a dm, um, telling me why he doesn't have time for a call. But I guarantee you, Julia, that he spent 15 minutes typing out there, putting that together.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: That was the only person who was even a little. And it was, it was actually kind of nice. But nobody was like, this is stupid.

Speaker B: Hate.

Speaker A: Um, you.

Speaker C: That didn't happen.

Speaker B: And I think it's so great for our listeners because the one thing that everybody struggles with the most, I think in business is visibility at different levels at different stages. Maybe not always, but what you suggest doing or what you told us about today is, is a different aspect of visibility that's not related to content necessarily, but that is vital because our businesses are built on relationships, not just on, um, putting content out there and people clicking buttons. It's built on relating to other people and having a good reputation in your circles of people that want to recommend you. And so it starts by initiating conversations. So I really think that you gave us some valuable, um, food for thought today.

Speaker C: Good. Thank you. It was such a fun project. I'm so glad. It's the reason that we connected. And I really wanted to save all that stuff up to share that today with your audience first, because I want to start putting it out there as a way that maybe people can create a strategy that feels like something that works for them for sure.

Speaker B: And you're so good at designing those. I'm sure that you help clients figure out strategies that work for them rather than cookie cutter approach.

Speaker C: Yeah, uh, the people that come to me, and probably very much like the people that come to you, want to have a business being themselves. They want to have something that they create that feels good to them. And that's why we don't do those kinds of things, because there are a lot of best practices and there are a lot of things that work for a lot of people. But if you don't like it, you're not going to do it. So you got to find a way to build something that works for your. For where you're, for your energy level and where you're trying to go.

Speaker B: Definitely. So tell our listeners where they can find you.

Speaker C: LinkedIn is my favorite place to be. I'm always at the LinkedIn water cooler, so please find me there. Connect with me there. I really love meeting new people, as you've learned today from this conversation. And if you consider doing the no project, I would be honored to be your first ask.

Speaker B: Um, I'll Definitely put your LinkedIn handle or URL in the show notes so people can find you.

Speaker C: Wonderful. Thank you. It was so much fun.