Ohio Program Establishes 'No Wrong Door' for Families in Crisis | Talk Justice An LSC Podcast

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Kate Anger: M

Megan Gillum: I didn't know that there was another way of doing things. I had been on the other side of the street, so to speak, and had struggled to access services and not know where to turn.

Narrator: Equal access to justice is a core American value. In each episode of Talk justice, an LSC podcast, we'll explore ways to expand access to justice and illustrate why it is important to the legal community, business, government and the general public. Talk justice is sponsored by the Leaders Council of the Legal Services Corporation.

Lee Rawls: Hello and welcome to Talk Justice. I'm Lee Rawls, longtime legal journalist and your host for this episode. When families are in crisis, it can be hard to figure out the right place to turn for help. Reaching out for assistance isn't easy. It's made harder when the path isn't clear and people have to try again and again to find the right resource. Situations like this are why community service providers, including legal services organizations, are making intentional efforts to create connections that prevent people from getting lost in the referrals process. Washington County, Ohio's Family and Children First Council FCFC recently launched their no Wrong Door initiative. It's like weaving a web of community resource providers where the closer connected the organizations are, the less likely it is for a family to slip through the gaps. We have some folks from Legal Aid of Southeast and Central Ohio here with us, which we'll be calling LASCO for short. So joining me we have Robin Bozian, who spent 44 years with Lasko before retiring as managing attorney in 2021. She continues to volunteer her time and talents in service to her community pro bono. Kate Anger, who serves as a resource navigator in LASCO's Athens office. Athens is one of LASKA's eight offices, which together serve 36 counties in Ohio. Kate has a doctorate in clinical psychology and launched three of the four diversion programs at her local municipal court. Megan Gillum, who is a service coordinator for Washington County's Family and Children First Council. She is the no Wrong Door Project coordinator and she recently became a client board member at Lasco. So Megan, can you start by telling us about FCFC's mission?

Kate Anger: Of course.

Megan Gillum: Uh, now I would say the mission for FCFC is really all about helping families. So what we do is we bring families together with various systems that they're either a part of or that they need to be a part of. And that could be schools, local government, businesses. And the goal is to improve access to support and really to strengthen the overall family's well being and ultimately their self sufficiency. So we feel we can do that by improving that access to support so that eventually they don't need us anymore.

Lee Rawls: And Raman, can you tell us about the services that lasco, uh, is providing to families with children?

Narrator: Sure. LASCO is like every other legal services provider, although in our rural areas, all of our offices are pretty much general practice. We do a lot of domestic work with a lot of focus on families that have suffered through the trauma of domestic violence with custody, divorce and all those kinds of related things. But just about everything that we do with regard to families is going to help the families with children with consumer issues, public benefits, access to medical coverage, helping with landlord tenant issues. I mean, you name it, they kind of COVID the whole gamut. And what's wonderful about LASCO is we all talk and communicate, communicate. And if there's a problem in one place that can maybe need help from another, we kind of combine resources and kind of work together to solve these problems. And since we're located in southeastern Ohio, we all have a lot of affinity for that. So we understand the area, we understand the rural, the obstacles and all of those things. But we really put a lot of focus on doing whatever we need to help families navigate and get the things that they need and have the education that their kids need. You know, just about anything that, um, a family might encounter that needs some legal assistance, we're there to do that.

Lee Rawls: And speaking of navigation, Kate, your title is Resource Navigator. So can you tell listeners what it is that you do for lasco?

Kate Anger: Sure. Thanks for having us on. There are five counties, uh, that LASCO covers that hold a TAP clinic, which is short for Tenant Advocacy Project. And that means that in those counties, attorneys go when the events, uh, eviction hearings are held and offer help to people to make sure that their rights as tenants are being respected. There is another resource navigator who goes to help in Columbus, and I go to three of the rural counties. So I see my job as having two parts. One is to back up the attorneys as much as possible. They carry a really heavy load and they work very, very hard. So I try to do some of the prep work, like, um, making sure I've got a list of everybody who's due at court, making sure that there are no conflicts for us, uh, as far as conflicts of interest. If someone does approach us and wants some help, looking to see who's called ahead to see if there are clients, I could call in advance to get some information and maybe point towards some resources. And then at tap, I speak with clients. If someone wants to talk to an attorney, I do the intake to make sure that they meet the criteria for being a Lasko client, which is primarily a financial consideration. They have to be low income. Just get the paperwork organized for the attorney. Sometimes people have a lot they want to say, of course, because it's terrible, terrible thing to be going through. Try to get the basics. We had somebody just yesterday who was actually caught up on the rent. So the attorney needed to know that there's definitely a problem with this case here. Hand that stuff over to the attorney and then talk to the client as much as I can at TAP about what resources might be helpful if there's funding available to help people pay their rent. Often there isn't. So if I definitely point them toward any funding that is available. If there isn't, I think of it in a broader sense. If this person fell behind on rent because their car broke down, can we find funds for that? If this person is struggling, try to look at the big picture and, and, um, see if I can point them towards some resources and then afterward I can follow up with them. As I understand it, they asked for funding for my position because the attorneys carry such a heavy load and have to move so fast that even though they do their best to point people toward resources, they just didn't have time to do it very much. In Washington county, for example, the eviction Hearings are timed 15 minutes apart, so there just wasn't time for the attorney to do as much of that resource navigation as they would like. I have a little more time while the attorney's running back and forth between parties doing the negotiating, I can chat with the, the tenants and then again, I can follow up with them, um, in the days and weeks to come to see if there's anything I can do to help them through this difficult period.

Lee Rawls: Well, and as you said, they, they need someone to talk these things out with. And, you know, if, if a lawyer is the one doing that, that means that, you know, that lawyer isn't doing legal services in that moment. So what are some of the contributing factors that you see in these eviction court cases that you're able to help people navigate through by pulling in other resources, other organizations?

Kate Anger: It's been really Interesting to see that, uh, a lot of the stereotypes about eviction are just not accurate. Most of the people we're seeing face eviction are working. And uh, it's very, very common. I always ask what led you to fall behind? If the issue is being behind on rent, what led you to fall behind? And the question is usually met with I got laid off, or they cut my hours at work, or the car broke down and I couldn't get to work, or there was some other huge expense that came up, medical expense, and people just didn't have a buffer. The uh, jobs are not paying enough for people to save up money for a buffer. So this other huge crisis comes up, they can't cover it all even though they're very, very much want to. And yes, people do try to pick up second jobs and things like that. And often it just can't happen fast enough. Another really common one is health. Somebody gets sick, they get hurt. A family member gets sick, sick or hurt, especially a child, and they have to stay home with that person. So many of them have jobs that don't allow that time off, so they get fired or they don't get paid for that time off, so they fall behind. It's again hard working people who just don't have those buffers that it takes to get you through a difficult period like that. My background is clinical psychology and addiction, so I'm very aware that sometimes those are contributing factors. Absolutely. Sometimes that's it. But much more often it's not. The really heartbreaking ones for me are ones that just seem to be about money. In all of those cases we're looking, what can we possibly do to help people through, uh, sometimes it becomes an internal referral. If it's more of a fair housing issue like uh, these folks have been insulted because of the nature of their family organization. They've been insulted by the landlord. And the landlord has come up with some kind of shaky reasons to evict them. That becomes a fair housing issue and we have attorneys who specialize in that.

Lee Rawls: So Kate, I heard that you had a recent case with a 78 year old veteran. Can you tell me about that?

Kate Anger: Yeah, the landlord was just really looking to improve their income so they decided to evict everybody so that they could remodel all of the units. And they gave everybody a 30 day notice. They were within their legal rights to do that. Everybody was on a month to month at that point. There's such a housing shortage that it was just not realistic for everybody to find another place to go in 30 days. An elderly person who needs certain considerations as far as access and stairs and things like that, it limits their pool of opportunities even more. So that's really frustrating to see somebody going through that when they truly didn't do anything wrong. They just aren't in control of that situation. The other money issue I've seen recently that is really heartbreaking is when, uh, a parent decides to deed a property over to their kids with the intention of just making the whole escrow process simpler when they pass away, trusting that they will be able to stay in that property until they die. And then somebody decides, hey, I've got the deed, now I don't have to let them stay. I can kick them out and sell it. And that that has happened several times.

Lee Rawls: That sounds really hard. Well, the kinds of issues that Kate's talking about will probably seem pretty familiar to a lot of our listeners. Uh, this is an, um, issue that happens nationwide. The fact that there are multiple things impacting people, even if it's just what outwardly might seem like a simple eviction case. But here in Washington county, there was actually this no wrong door initiative. So, Megan, I would love to hear the story behind what inspired FCFC to implement this no wrong door initiative.

Megan Gillum: Of course, there's kind of two inspiration stories I can share with you. The original inspiration comes actually from my director, Cindy Davis. And she was holding an FCFC retreat which had has many members of agency partners and community members that come together. Many of them are on the board for fcfc. And the goal of this retreat was to review data from community health surveys from the previous year. And as they were reviewing that data, they found that there were a lot of gaps and barriers that community members were struggling with. And a few of those gaps included not just having resources available, but how to access those resources. And many community members expressed that they don't feel comfortable accessing those resources, which led her to believe that we needed more trauma informed customer service within the community. And from that, she had heard about this concept of no wrong door and kind of realized that it would address all of these challenges and barriers that our community was facing. And then whenever she spoke to me about it, and my inspiration is just a little bit more personal. And to be honest, I had jumped up out of my chair whenever she talked to me about no wrong door because I didn't know that there was another way of doing things. I had been on the other side of the street, so to speak, and had struggled to access services and not know where to turn I had went in for help and felt a sense of judgment. Even if that was perceived, that kind of deterred me from seeking help from other places. So the thought of making an impact on my community to create that change, I knew I had to be a part of it. And it's what continues to inspire me to put so much into it today.

Lee Rawls: That's really powerful. Megan, would you feel comfortable sharing a little bit more about your personal connection and your experiences? Because I do think about, you know, such a vulnerable period in so many people's lives. It's really scary.

Megan Gillum: Yeah, I would feel comfortable sharing that with you. I do have a personal connection and many personal stories, and it is what fuels my passion in the entire concept of no wrong door. So if I could just give you a few examples, because I did grow up in poverty, and, uh, many people don't really understand what that means. It's not always about money, but it's about these impossible choices that we have to make every day. So there are moments where someone. And this is a personal story, so I guess I should say I. So there are moments when I would walk into an agency and. And not have the right paperwork. And of course, from their perspective, I'm not prepared. I don't really want the help. And it's easy to make that judgment. But what people didn't realize is that I was only had 30 minutes, that I was allowed to leave work because I couldn't afford to miss even one minute of time. And, uh, that I actually had to utilize that 30 minutes to go pick my daughter up and to stop by the agency because they're not open when I get off work and I'm walking in the door already feeling worried and feeling like I don't belong there and like I don't know what I'm doing or how to get help. So when someone looks at me and says, well, we don't offer that here, or, you know, no, you can't use our printer. These were just little things that ended up making me feel very defeated. I also have a personal story with Lasko specifically, and if you would like, I can share that for you as well.

Lee Rawls: I would love that.

Kate Anger: Yeah.

Lee Rawls: Ah, please. We're about to hear from Robin about her 44 years at Lasko serving as an attorney. So the client side, please let us know what that was like.

Megan Gillum: Absolutely. And actually, my personal story involves Robyn quite a few years ago, and this was, I would say, about three years ago. So it was before I ever worked in my current position. I was struggling with A very intense, intense custody situation for my daughter. I will spare you all of the intense details, but there was domestic violence involved as well as some protection order things as well. But the biggest thing is my daughter's safety was compromised, and I didn't have the money to get an attorney. So this was a single mom just fighting. And this isn't just a couple of weeks. This is years of fighting. I didn't understand the legal system. I assumed that what's right is right and, you know, justice will prevail on its own. But without evidence and an attorney and building a case, sometimes that's difficult to prove. It was a heartbreaking few years trying to ensure both of our safety. And I had really reached a point of feeling just very alone. And someone in my community had suggested that I go to the legal clinic and to seek advice, maybe get a few questions answered. And so I went with not a lot of confidence because I didn't know anything about it at the time. So I went with all of my binders and papers of court documents and protection order forms and, you know, just put it all on, you know, when it was my turn, put it all in front of the attorney. And it happened to be Robin. And I remember I'm just, you know, going over everything and pleading my situation. And the response that I typically got from people was, man, that's really. That's really hard. I don't know. I wish there was something I could do to help, but no one ever being able to but Robin. And I'll never forget, she said. She looked at me and she was like, have you applied for legal aid? And I very confidently said, no, legal aid does not help with custody cases, so I can't apply for them. And she gave me this wild look and said that I needed to apply. So I said, okay. And so before I left the clinic, I filled out a short form and didn't think anything of it. And a few days later, I got a phone call, and they said it was Lasko calling and they were going to accept and take my case. That didn't feel real because it had been years and no one was able to help. And that's when I met Lucy, who was the attorney that I would be working with. She completely changed the trajectory of. Of my daughter's life, of my life, and of our situation. We were able to get the protection order that we needed. We were able to go through the case and present the evidence that I didn't know how to present before on my own and really just stood with me every step of the way. I can't really come up with the words to explain how much that changed life for us, and I apologize. You know, um, uh, it's made me feel just a little bit emotional talking about it, because in the last three years, I will say that I have not had to deal with the court system or my daughter's safety or my safety, because once Lucy stood with me during that process, it hasn't come up again.

Lee Rawls: Having someone in your corner can just make all the difference in the world. So, Robyn, is it common for people just to not have that awareness of. Of services? You know, Megan didn't even know that that was an option for her. She had been told something that wasn't exactly correct. So have this public awareness of your services been a challenge? I mean, you were with Lasko for more than 40 years, so it's always a challenge.

Narrator: And it's a challenge when you get there. It's a challenge when you start working. It's a challenge when you're in the courts. It's a challenge in the community. And I think it's something that you have to really, really work at continuously. Fortunately, Lasco, when I first started in 1977, it became immediately clear in southeastern Ohio that understanding the community and getting connected with the community was the best way forward. So that's one of those things we hold very dear and have always done, and LASCO has given us permission and the ability to do that, in fact, strengthens it. And, yeah, you get out there, you gotta meet people, and you gotta meet the people who are doing these other, like Kate says, the resources that you need to pull in. Uh, you know, in all my years, I always say that the actual, quote, unquote, legal work is kind of maybe 30% or 40% of what you do. The rest of it is helping them think through how are you going to get there, what's some commonsensical things, what resources need to happen. So anytime you can find out different resources that are out there and make those kinds of connections, you're going to be a, uh, much better attorney in providing the service to the client that you serve. And we recognize that early on with all our new attorneys, we have them training getting out there in the community. So, yeah, it's really, really important, and you make those connections. And like, like Megan said, having that personal connection makes a huge difference. Trauma informed makes a huge difference. Getting out to know the community and know who the person is. Frankly, you know, if I'm referring to somebody to the local Department of Job and Family Services. I can say, hey, you know, I talked to Denise just yesterday, and she's the person who's in charge of this. And, you know, you're making a referral that's more than just, hey, call this number. It's like, call this number. I know these people, and I've got some personal relationships. And the whole idea is to hopefully instill in them and make them feel much more comfortable about reaching out and doing that referral. And I think what no Wrong Door does is not only does it promote that and say, hey, that's what we want to do, but it also promotes that no matter where you are, even if you come to legal services, you don't really have a legal problem. You think you do, but you don't know. And legally, there may be nothing that we can do. On the other hand, through Knurwong Door, I can say, hey, you know, Community Action has a heap program, and maybe they can help you avoid having electrical shut off, or you can go to the Job and Family Services and apply for a, uh, PRC loan. I mean, all of those sorts of things. And being able to do that is really huge. And through that process, you're meeting people and you're continually creating and maintaining that relationship. And that's what's another nice thing about no Wrong Door. And it allows us to continue to do that in a structured way.

Lee Rawls: And I'd love to talk about that structure. So, Megan, how is no Wrong Door building these connections and ensuring that service providers know how to help people navigate these options?

Megan Gillum: Well, no Wrong Door is very unique because it's not just about sharing resources. It's about getting an entire community to come together to ensure that no Door is a wrong Door when asking for help. And we do that in a few different ways. Resources are, of course, very important. So we have created a no Wrong Door Pocket Resource Guide, and we've gotten a few grants that help us distribute those to the community. So our local school systems all have, uh, pocket Resource Guides so that when families come in or a student is struggling, there is access to those resources. Our secretaries and our front desk staff can provide those to families. We collaborate with the Washington County Sheriff's Office and their Ignite program at the jail so that when inmates are reentering the community, those resources are available and that they're knowledgeable of those resources. And this also goes for all of our partners and all of the agencies in the community have that access.

Lee Rawls: So in addition to the schools, the local jails, uh, Lasco what are some of the other service providers who are partnering in this effort?

Megan Gillum: We have a lot of partners, which is really how we get our community to come together. And this is everyone from our local mental health board to both of our health departments to local mental health agencies. As I said previously, the sheriff's office is also a partner schools. The goal is, is to have every agency in the community partnering with no Wrong Door and really taking that initiative.

Lee Rawls: I love having something handy like a resource guide. These that, you know, people can be circulating. What are some of the other efforts that no Wrong Door has been involved in?

Megan Gillum: Oh gosh. Now this is something that I would love to share with you because resource guides are not enough on their own. So what we're doing is we are bringing together our partner agencies for our cross systems training committee. And from there we are putting on and planning events such as our poverty simulation. And that event really helps give perspective on what community members are struggling with and the challenges they are facing. We also hold an annual Social Services 101. And this is where we take real scenarios that community members are facing, facing and uh, we work through them together. And we have everyone from uh, you know, LASCO there to your local mental health board. So we have just all across the board employees that are sitting together in these breakout rooms thinking, okay, how can we help this family? How can we help this situation? And it's so beautiful to witness because the feedback I get after that event specifically is so wonderful. And I am told that when they go back to their agencies, they are looking at these situations with a new light and with this new drive to offer help. And they have someone that they met that they've connected with, that they can call and they can say, hey, I've ran into a situation with this client or this family or this patient. And it starts that connection of us working together. And we also host monthly lunch and learns. And the purpose is to kind of educate every agency in the community about what each other does and to uh, really build that connection between from human to human so that when someone does come in for help that they know what's available and they personally know someone they can connect you with. So it's that trauma informed customer service that is the other piece, which is why we also offer, and that is with the help of Elaine Sanders, who helped us create a trauma informed customer service training that's available to all employees of our partners and really anyone in the community where they can get on and do that trauma informed training to better serve the community. And customers, clients, families.

Lee Rawls: That sounds incredible. It reminds me of my emergency medical technician training. There's something very different in acting out a scenario, uh, that really helps you think through these issues. Well, I absolutely love these training programs that you've arranged. Is there any other way for helping these people in different organizations communicate with each other?

Megan Gillum: Yes, One of the best ways that we do that is through our listserv. So, uh, this gives us access to each other over email. And it's a secured email so that if anyone runs into a situation with either a client or a family or whatever the case may be, they are able to reach out and they have this whole network of, uh, other agencies and partners that respond, which I've used personally and have asked. Hey, I'm in this situation where I have someone who is pregnant and they are homeless and I'm not sure what to do, but they don't trust the system very much. And, uh, what should the first step be? And then the feedback you get from all over the community is absolutely amazing. And you kind of look through. I was able to go back to the person and say, hey, this is the full amount of advice and guidance that I was given for you. But this agency in particular said that they would sit down with you in private and walk you through those steps and even help you fill out some of those applications. Do you feel comfortable with me giving your phone number to where if this was another situation without the listserv, we may not be able to get them all of the guidance that they needed in that moment. And they may not have trusted a system to walk into to be able to get that help. So it's really great.

Lee Rawls: I love the sound of that. Um, yeah, and, um, just kind of a secure way that you guys can all communicate. That's great.

Narrator: And I love the listserv too because, you know, it gives me an opportunity to of course throw out there, hey, you know, legal services can do this piece of that, um, and remind them that we're out there. But I've used the listserv myself for things like we had a family call into our drop in center and they had a middle school kid who wanted to participate in sports, but they didn't have the money to purchase the equipment. And our school systems are not required to pay for anything for middle school and elementary school. I hit on the listserv and I said, hey, we've got this family. And this is the issue. Within 10 minutes I had the place where she could go and apply for and get the funding for all the equipment that her kid needed. I mean, you just can't underestimate the value of having that kind of instant feedback. And it is instant because you send it and you get responses within minutes.

Lee Rawls: So, Kate, I'd love to come back to you and just hear. How do you foresee no wrong door continuing to be helpful for your clients and the wider community?

Kate Anger: It has already been incredibly helpful. I started this job at the end of 2024, and I already knew the resources in Athens pretty well because I'd been working for the municipal court here. I did not know the other two counties. And I, uh, was told right away, first of all, talk to Robin. And then Robin got me hooked up with the, uh, 101 training that Megan just mentioned. And that was like opening the door to the county. It was fabulous. And they got me set up with the little pocket guides right away. Now, I give one of those to each person that I meet at court. And I always make. Make take a minute to mark a few things. You know, you mentioned this. Let me circle this. I'm going to dog ear the page. And then, um, it is so nice to know that they get to walk out with that in their hand because the going through the eviction is so stressful. I know they're not going to remember 90% of what I say in that moment. So it's really helpful to give them that physical thing to hold, and then I can follow up and say, hey, remember we talked about community action having some services specifically for veterans. Do you need that number again? I also love that sense of the ongoing connection between all of the different agencies. That's been really helpful. So I don't feel as silly calling the wrong place and saying, I don't know if I've got this right, but here's what I'm looking for. People who are part of the no, wrong door will say, oh, no, we don't do that. But these guys do. Let me give you a number. And it's lovely to know that the same thing is happening. And I've seen it happen for clients who they go in asking for one thing, and maybe they get that help, which is perfect. Maybe they get help with something else. Maybe they get both. That's absolutely wonderful. And to know that they're going to be treated with an understanding that what they're going through is really, really difficult. The phrase I hear some of the attorneys use here is trauma brain. That they are not at their best. And we need to maybe do some extra reminders, be extra gentle. Take a little extra time with things. And that's not meant in a demeaning way at all. Just realistically, we all go through periods where we are overwhelmed. And eviction would be absolutely one of those periods where we need to take a little extra time with people rather than just, just saying, nope, they don't do that, or we don't do that, say, we, we can't do that. But here's the folks who can. And let me, let me hear a little more about your situation. Maybe we can help with something else.

Lee Rawls: Well, Robyn, you experienced the times before no Wrong Door. And now that the program is running, I'd love to hear your reflections on its importance and what you see it bringing to the community in the future.

Narrator: I just think of it as something that's just an extension of what we've always wanted forever, which is that whenever we're working with somebody, we want to make sure we're addressing whatever obstacles that they are facing. Now, in addition to doing the clinics and the other stuff that I do for lasco, I also help operate, uh, a drop in center for homeless folks. And the no Wrong Door certainly helps all the time with that. As a matter of fact, in one of the trainings, I've been in this community for over 40 years, I know almost all the agencies. But in that training, Consumer Credit Counseling happened to mention that they had a special fund where they were helping people with utilities. And I had just talked with a woman the day before who had trouble and couldn't get any help with her utilities. So I was able to go back right after hook them up. And before the day was done, she got her utility covered. And that's the kind of stuff that you hear day in, day out when you're talking with people about this. From a Legal Services perspective, it really, really is a way to get out there and let people know that Legal Services is more than just custody and divorce. And I think that's something that gets lost. A lot of times people don't realize, I mean, uh, even to this day, I'm talking with somebody and they'll say, hey, so and so is being faced, uh, with eviction. I said, well, have they called Legal Services? Well, no. And they've been struggling with how we're going to get do this and how are we going to do that? Hey, uh, you need to call Legal Services or of course, you know, I'm a legal service attorney. What's the paperwork look like? Oh my goodness, they haven't done the paperwork. Right. You're gonna get this eviction dismissed. Call Legal Services. You know, having that kind of connection reminds people that we are out there and there are things that we can do. And I think it helps everybody, but it also helps Legal Services in identifying and getting the clients in so that we can help them before it gets too bad. You know, I always say, say that when they reach us earlier is always better than later.

Lee Rawls: I'm sure that's the truth. So to close out our conversation, I would love to give all three of you the opportunity to speak to any of our listeners who maybe have heard this episode and are thinking about is this worth doing in my community? Uh, could this make a difference to access to justice issues for us? Is it too scary? What would your advice to them be? Megan, I'll start with you.

Megan Gillum: Thank you. My advice is to absolutely do this, to start an initiative in your community because it works and it works in real time. As you were discussing previously about how do we get the word out on what services Lasko can offer or what services other agencies can offer. And, uh, the difference it makes when we're all connecting is huge. And to see Robin be able to get new information after being in this community your whole life, because we're creating those spaces where people can come together and share their thoughts and ideas. And instead of working against each other, we're referring to each other. Instead of it's one mental health facility trying to take all people and working against this one, we're referring to each other even when you offer the same thing. So we're not only getting the word out, but it's just coming together as a community. So my final advice would be that it is absolutely beneficial to start something like this, an initiative, your own initiative, in your community, and get everyone's perspective to come together to create something that's absolutely beautiful.

Lee Rawls: And Kate, what are your thoughts?

Kate Anger: I'm actually part of a group that is trying to do exactly this in Athens. There's a, uh, group called Co Create, which is addressing housing issues. And they had already been talking about creating an online resource guide. Right now each agency tends to kind of make its own little printouts for food, housing, whatever, and, and we realized we're all kind of replicating efforts and we all end up with something that's a little out of date. Their focus was doing something online, either an app or a website. And they're being realistic. They said it's got to be an app that works on a 10 year old Samsung with a cracked screen. And that's absolutely true. But the piece I've been adding to those discussions is that's a great start. We also need to look at training each other like Megan has going with the lunch and learns. That is so helpful to learn about a new organization each month, uh, the yearly get togethers where we can really brainstorm together and just that cultural aspect of working together and exchanging information. So I pushed enough of that that now this organization in Athens has, uh, added a committee they're calling the Culture Committee. So that in addition to the funding issues and the uh, website issues, we'll have another group that's looking at, uh, the communication, the no Wrong door aspect to things.

Lee Rawls: And Robin, can you share with us any advice or your hopes going forward?

Narrator: Yes. Well, first of all, the no wrong door, it actually, uh, I believe it is something that Family and Children First Councils in the state of Ohio, there are a number of them that have done this. So that is in Ohio. Anyway. That would be the organization that you might want to first approach if you're a Legal Services person. Um, but I'm sure there's a similar type of organizations in every state that are providing services to families, particularly targeting early development and, um, helping families with young children, et cetera. But this is something that's well worth your time, well worth your effort, and it expands your knowledge of what's out there. Um, you know, I was really lucky to, to work with the Legal Services organization that realize from the very get go that being connected with the community makes a difference. And, um, participating in something like no Wrong Door just highlights that and reaffirms over and over again how important it is to be connected to the different resources that are out there. Not only because you can help your clients, but they can help their folks also access you because they know that you're out there and they know that they can refer to you. So I strongly suggest that people look into creating this kind of, uh, community environment. I think every community would benefit greatly from it.

Lee Rawls: Well, thank you so much to Robin, Megan and Kate. It's been so great talking with you and learning about this really important work you're doing in Ohio. And thank you listeners for tuning in to this episode of Talk Justice. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode

Narrator: Podcast. Guest speakers views, thoughts and opinions are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the Legal Services Corporation's views, thoughts or opinions. The information and guidance discussed in this podcast are provided for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal advice. You should not make decisions based on this podcast content without seeking legal or other professional advice.

Kate Anger: Sam.