EP 295 - Molly McGrath - From Chaos to Consistency: Mastering Intake, Follow-Up, and Client Experience

If you have somebody sitting in your office, like, Eh, they're good enough employee, and I don't know if they're going to work out and they're driving me crazy, or they're a rock star. I don't even need to manage him. I would say, any of those situations, this solution is the same. They need time, attention, and feedback.

You're listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast presented by Market My Market, the go to podcast for learning from the experts and the legal community about effective ways to grow and manage your law firm. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Legal Mastermind podcast. Today, my guest is Molly McGrath, who is the founder of Hiring and Empowering Solutions. Molly, Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited for our convo today. So let's start off by giving the listeners a little bit of a background on you and how you came to found this company. Yes, so, I've been in the legal space for twenty eight years now and started out working for a national organization in Denver, Colorado, where I live, and really one of the only legal organizations that I was aware of for attorneys specific that invested in coaching personal and professional and business coaching, and it was really fascinated.

I was hired to be an administrative assistant program organizer when they launched a program in nineteen ninety seven. I'd go to the conferences every quarter and there'd be attorneys standing up at the mic, you know, sharing about their greatest pain point, and one hundred percent of these business owners, law firm owner operators would say business would be great but for the employees. And then you know, at this conference they were encouraged to bring their pair of legals, legal assistants, sociate attorneys to go and breakout sessions, and then we'd all go to the cocktail reception after and I talked to the employees and they would say, my job would be great if only my attorney would stop be in a control freak and let go and trust me and allow me to take over.

Because I see how incredibly stressed out they are, and so I'm like, hmm, there's a massive disconnect here. They both want the same thing, they're just not speaking the same language. So I get really, really heavily invested in pouring into employees and to this day, twenty seven years later, twenty eight years later, scour social media, scour the internet. There are that I can find.

No training programs that pour into the support people, coaching, consulting, you know, skill set, knowledge improvement, things at nature. So I went on a mission. I've written three books, I have a podcast, and I have a program called the Law Firm m and boot Camp, which is like my why and my passion project. And the other side of my practice is flat fey retained search recruiting.

Can you walk us through the process of how you coach someone on what to look for when hiring an employee? Yeah, I love this question. I am passionate about hiring because especially as small or solo or mid sized law firms, I think we have this a little bit of head trash that we can't compete with competition. People are going to job hop to go to bigger firms.

Sings to that nature doing recruiting, especially in the post pandemic world, And since twenty twenty, I cannot tell you how it is such a glorious time for small, mid sized firms because everybody was forced to sit on their couch take stock of their life, where they spend their time, their energy and what have you. My phone started blowing up with the associate attorneys like get me out a big firm, like I really want I want to get either. Some wanted to leave the courtroom and do transactional side.

Other people wanted to go in the courtroom and stop being a glorified paralegal. So everybody took stock of their life and where they spend their time and what they do with their time. It wasn't about Bill Blauer requirements. It wasn't about bigger, better pay.

It wasn't about the Cadillac benefits of looking to be in a firm where they're impact maker and a difference maker. And so if you are looking for hiring, let's start with the hardest hire attorneys. Unemployment rate right now is zero point four to three percent. I don't say that to breathe fear in the room.

Pair of legals, unemployment rate last I took check was one point two percent, and those numbers drastically decrease on the para legal side if it's one hundred percent in house. So it's really a great for law firm owners that are looking to hire. Regardless of the position, I will tell you do not try to do it yourself. You can delegate it to a legal assistant.

You can hire somebody overseas in the Philippines. You don't have to necessarily use a legal recruiter for the process. But here's the deal. The moral story is time kills all deals, and it's never been an ever truer in recruiting and staffing, especially for law firms.

Anybody who's a rock star is not looking for a job. So the way you're going to find people is passive candidates where they have the resume floating around, or their profile floating around, or they have any kind of digital footprint. And so when it comes to recruiting, the days of throwing an AD up there and it be written like a dissertation are done. It's all got to be written for SEO, for SMO, and it has to be written like a match dot com ad, like you're trying to land your perfect partner.

It has to be short, sweet, to the point, and really, of course you're not going to violate years of experience and have to have an active law license and what have you. But nowadays people have these things called smartphones, and they're getting smarter and smarter by the minute. So if you put an ad out there. They're going to get alert if they have any profile, and all they have to do is click interested.

They're not reading your job description at all, So don't even put time with the traditional jobscriptions, qualifications, seat of seventeen bullet points. You know, requirements with seventeen bullet points. No, you want to first two sentence, first paragraph, really paint the picture of them walking through your office, your culture. You know, we have a stock team of legal assistance and paralegals.

We invest in marketing, we invest in personal and professional development, and so that's first and foremost. The second thing I would say, you put the ad out there. Now, you've got to have somebody on your team going out and scouring the resume databases and indeed and LinkedIn are the two platforms I would recommend for. I wouldn't use Zip, Recruiter, Glass, store Monster, any of them.

They don't invest in technology and they really do not have the resume database. So I would focus on those two platforms and have someone an admin assistant going out there and just inboxing passive candidates, going back to thematch dot com reference. What we have our clients do is make a little video happy to share a script with you all anywhere three to five minutes or if you have any professional ones that you do when you're working with you know, a marketing agency, and then I know you all do videos something off your YouTube channel and inbox people the video.

Most recruiters are lazy, they're using AI, they're using these canned email boxes, and the video is converting like crazy. Even if you're not competitive with unlimited PTO Cadillac benefits, They're going to pick up on your energy. They're going to pick up on your essence, They're going to pick up on your tonality. They're going to pick up on your background in the video.

Seeing that you're not, you know, sitting in a seven piece suit with the scale SA Justice and a five hundred pound marble desk and you're not smiling and you look completely unapproachable. You know, you got to really infuse your energy in your essence. Some of my greatest videos that I get from some of my smaller firms, the attorney's like, we're growing, liking busters. We hire this marketing company and the SEO is working and blah blah blah, I can't keep up with it, and I'm you know, we have more business and we can handle.

Please come work for me, And people are like, I want to work for that guy. You have written about the five reasons why your law firm's receptionist is more important than you think. Can you expand on that? Yes?

Yeah, and I'm most passionate about that position first and foremost, so assuming you hire right, and you hire somebody who gets it once, it has a capacity for it. They understand the director of first impression. They have no trouble picking up the phone, they understand the chief happiness officer, and all that your reason the reasons that your receptionists is which I like to call the client's success coordinator versus a receptionist, because the receptionist is almost like that old school term a legal secretary or what have you.

It's not very empowering and embolding. So really naming conventions mean everything, So really shifting it first and foremost into a client success coordinator. They are the director of first impressions in twenty seconds or less when for inbound and outbound phone calls, clients are going to discern their experience with your law firm. So when they're trained operight, it's in their bones and their blood that they love people.

You know, front of the house usually likes people. Paralegals like paper and buy and large, so they have to love people and they have to have a servant leader heart. So number one, when they know that and they understand that that they're going to get the client to the next right step in your process, register for workshop, weaponar resultation free paid on whatever it might be. They understand that their job because if they can't give people into your process, your job as an attorney is absolutely irrelevant because you have empty conference terms, you have no clients, you have empty calendars.

So when they fully understand that for inbound, that's number one. Number two they're the most important because when they understand intake and data and information analytics and they capture every single lead where they came from, what they did. I can't tell you how many receptionists that I talked to and they're not capturing every lead that comes in. They're only capturing the ones at book a console and now marketing.

Marketing needs intake and receptionists to be a team member of the marketing team because marketing needs that data and information so they could pivot in real time about you. But I always hear from attorneys. Oh, our marketing agency is terrible. They send us garbage leads.

We're not getting enough leads blah blah blah. And then I get the report. I'm like, you're basing this on emotions. You have absolutely no data from your intake team, from your receptionist, from your client services coordinators.

So when I can train them up into how to understand that that the reporting and analytics for every lead generation and then lead conversion into this step. The third reason, when they understand it's their job to convert them into the first step. So conversions people always believe is console to hire. Well, reception or intake is a new buzzword in the legal space.

Is one hundred percent from lead coming in digitally socially however it comes in and tracking that conversion to taking the next step in the move now if they don't need to think about it blah blah blah, then their next activity of how they're a money generator and their KPI is attached, that is follow up. They understand the phone will make you rich. Most people leave lean on automation and AI, which I'm a huge fan of, coupled with human coupled with somebody who's going to pick up the phone.

And they have a goal every single day, and then next is a understand a KPI. Others cut down on cancelations, no shows, some reschedules, so they're completely you know, so go the calendar, So go cash flow. I always say they are a production cop to the bone with mastering that calendar. They understand or ideal week.

They know how many leads you need, how many conversions, how many consoles, how many hires, and all that pressure is not just on the attorneys, which we typically. I just had a law firm tell me this day that they're like, well, the only way we make revenues from bill hours and attorneys and pair of legals. I'm like, I track a receptionist all day long, and the B plus average person when they understand those five key roles, they're generating twenty five thousand dollars in average on a month before the client even gets at the conference room, before the attorney's metric or non attorney salesperson in the higher rates.

When done right, the average intake call is taking anywhere from A P and C from twelve to nineteen minutes, and they can hear money is energy and we're all responsible for the energy we bring in a room and leave in a room so they can hear your resentment and frustration. And that is typically because somebody's wearing three hats. Intake reception is legal assistant, paralegal, maybe bookkeeper too. The greatest investment you can make in your firm is to leave your receptionists in take team alone.

Do not cloud pre engagement and post engagement. They should not be owing the file now. If they're responsible for scanning and getting documents out in a timely manner, is in your best interest that they time chunk that. And if they're doing an hour production with finally scanning whatever it might be, which I still think it's better to get an intern or law clerk for that, make sure they time chunk and somebody's carrying the phones for them or covering the phones for them, because that's my biggest complaint too.

It's like, okay, you're going to hire an outsource phone service, right receptionist, which I spot check and call them every single day. And they're even worse than law firm because they make you go through torture. Especially let's talk about if you're doing probate HI, how do you spell your name? Let me repeat it back to you.

Let me repeat back your last name. It is four point five minutes before you get to the perspective. Client's pain point. I can't find a law firm that I can get under four point five minutes versus somebody who's dedicated in that position.

And that's all they do. And they answer the phone and say, we're so grateful that you picked our law firm and called us today. This is Sarah. How can I serve you?

Not how can I help you? It's how can I serve you? Just like the video with the clients or the employees that came in, they're like, when you said that one thing? And I make all my law firms answer the phone with thank you, And it's the inflection like, thank you for calling here today.

This is Sarah. How can I serve you? Like with the compassion, the empathy, you are in the right place. I cannot tell you how many compliments.

When they book the appointment and then the attorney gets in the consultation, they're like, why'd you go with our law firm? First of all, you're the only one who didn't have an answering service. Second of all, you're the only ones who picked up the phone. And third of all, when I called Sarah, oh my gosh, like they'll walk in for their consultation and they're like Sarah and they'll give her a hug.

Do you think that deal's not done? Do you have some general advice that you can give? So what I do, again, if you have an admin in team or somebody that can shoulder the portion, is do a phone interview first and foremost. So what I do is try to get their phone number, or after they responded the video, I'm like, hey, real quick, can you call me between two and four today?

I just like to do a ten minute make sure we're talking this right. Money benefits all that jazz and so it's wonderful when you call, when you hear them call you right and is sometimes they don't call you, so it shows you how they don't have follow through, how they're generally not interested. I can't tell you how many people have said yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll call you, and then they'll text me five minutes after the call was supposed to start. Sari I took another offer or sorry, I'm not interested anymore.

So you're freeing up the attorney from lots, so you see people's behaviors, especially what I like about the attorney not doing their own recruiting. Even if it's the HR manager. Then for some reason candidate thinks you're working for them and befriending them, so they're more relaxed. So that's Number one is save yourself a ton of time.

I can't tell you how many attorneys still like schedule one hour interviews when they haven't even seen how the person. So that's five minute phone interview, ten minute phone interview that's framed like a meet and great, and you'll see people's behavior. They show up late, they ditch you at the last minute. What have you You booked ten calls?

Probably three are going to show up and actually be professional, So you saved yourself a lot of time they pass at. Then I would do a zoom interview and in there it's really great, even if it's a in person positions, save your time and travel and all that, and meet in the zoomer interview. I say, throughout all those canned questions, I would not go through their resume. I would really have a heart to heart, human to humans so you could see how they handle things, so you could pick out certain pieces.

So I see that you've been a litigator for five years now, but you've never set that first chair. Tell me a little bit of why you think that is. You know, just really you want to think of their job description and the things are going to take off your plate and the difference are going to make in that role and kind of walk through their days and their job descriptions and ask them duties from that, so things of that nature. I see you don't really have any CRM experience on here.

Tell me what you did? How did you run your day? How did you manage your day when you had you know, client meetings, you had hearings, you had mediations, you had what have you? Tell me how you navigated your day?

Tell me how you navigated when the managing partner whoever it might be, was supposed to review documents and they don't get back to you, and they're the biggest bottleneck and the business. But you have a ten million dollar case sitting on your docket that you know you can close. What do you do to fight for the client? And sometimes you even have to go to your boss and pin them down and be like review this right now, there's money sitting here.

Tell me how you handle that, Tell me how you work with your pair of legals and your legal assistance. You want to get to places like that. And then you also want to hear about their family, because you're interviewing the whole family. So tell me a little bit about your family life, your situation, what you do for a free time, what have you.

And then you be quiet because here's the thing like, oh, my wife worked for a startup or what have you. Her parents just moved to California. She's nine months pregnant. You're like, ding, ding ding, this guy's going to California.

There's no way his wife is not ruling the roost on this one. The first grand baby's going to California. I had to interview this morning with an attorney and they're like, you know, they're asking me, is a position remote? I said, it's hybrid?

How many days hybred? And then it really I boiled them down. I'm like, I have to be honest. I'm really hearing from you that you want a remote position.

Her husband works remote. You know, they have a small child now that is going to pre k and stuff like that, and she's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We hung up the phone and then she sent me an email at one o'clock in the morning. She's like, Molly, I can't stop thinking about I love you.

I liked the law firm, and I can't do this today. I will leave for a remote position if I'm offered it for more money and it's remote, I know I will, So I'm gonna withdrawal. Are there any things that you've picked up in all your experience, the things that you can look for. Yes.

The first reason that they're really great in the interview is because you're making about skills and knowledge and experience. Typically I would say, don't even go to the resume until you bring them in for the in person interview or the second interview. I would say, because with each step in the process now it has to be tight because time kills all deal. If they're a rock star, they got multiple offers on the table.

But to your point, my experience with that for the most part is because we're interviewing from skills, knowledge and experience in the resume versus the human stuff. You know. I've had people that have said, well, when you ask me, why attract me to estate planning? Like it literally just brought me back to my parents' divorce and my husband just gave me divorce papers last week.

So I was afraid I was going to break down in this interview and really share that right now. So I played it safe to get my composure together. And then you're like, you're hired like because they're vulnerable, they're real, they're raw, they're authentic, and they explain why their behavior. Most times people are like, you know what, I love that you even notice that because you're an employer who's present.

You're an employer that's seeing something and you're naming it in real time because you're deeply curious. You're invested in this two sided relationship, and that shows me that you're a pretty cool dude to work for because you're you're like, what just happened? What's up? So if you could talk to to the attorneys now, the managing partners of the firm, what advice would you give them?

Yeah, My message to entrepreneurs, to managing attorneys or what have you is, first and foremost, like employees are interviewing you as much as you're interviewing them, and your employees really don't want a job. Pop I hear this every single day. They're looking for a forever home that they could the reason they leave, it's not because the work alone, not because of the requirements anything of that nature. You have to remember you're hiring human beings first and foremost, and human doing second.

This is why I interviewed this way, and what I would say to the attorneys is that it's this simple. If you have somebody sitting in your office, they're like, they're a good enough employee and I don't know if they're going to work out and they're driving me crazy whatever, or there's there're a rock star, I don't even need to manage them, I would say. Any of those situations, the solution is the same. They need time, attention, and feedback.

That's it, truly. So the biggest mistake I see for managing attorneys is in business owners too, And my wish is that you could shift your mindset that your employees need your time and you need to treat them like an internal client. Give them the same respect and grace and time and press since that you do for paying client meeting. And it's very simple.

Set up a structure where you're doing weekly, you know, team meetings with them daily huddles with them, quarterly employee growth blends, or reviews. It doesn't even have to be you, if you're fortunate enough to have a C suite framework within or a business leader. But they want feedback, they want coaching. They want to know that they're a difference maker.

They want to know when they're knocking down the park, when they're missing the mark. And the most important question you can consistently ask them when you're spending time from them is what are you not seeing in me as your leader, as your boss that you wish you could see more of? And then be quiet and listen and be present and acknowledge it the same way you want them to acknowledge the pncs that are calling in your office, and then figure out the next right move. You know, I really like that you said that, or what have you.

I'd like to schedule some time, whether it's with the department, process improvement, whatever it might be, individual and then make sure you follow through. I hear from business owners all the time, is I need someone batteries included, I don't have time to train them, blah blah blah. I'm like, great, assume they come with a skill set. The knowledge, the experience, all that, but there's still a human being and you're in the personal service industry, and you serve in the personal service industry.

This is not e comm and you have to spend time with your people and it needs to be authentic and not check the box that you're showing up at the happy hour from four to five and then do an Irish exit. Well, Mollie, I can't thank you enough for sharing all this information with the listeners. Is there any parting wisdom that you'd like to leave everybody with or if at least ways to get a hold of you. Yeah.

Absolutely, easiest way to get a hold of us go to our website Hiring and Empowering dot com. You can in we drop a podcasts every Tuesday, every Thursday, blog, and every Saturday. I do like a three to five minute pocket coaching on what your employees are thinking. So just to give you some nuggets to create a two millimeter shift and in parting wisdom, I would just say it really warms my heart how many employees are sitting in law firms across the world silently waiting for their boss to talk to them and to have conversations with them.

So they can actually tell them where they see that they can step up and lead. They always saying I am nobody to delegate, nobody will step up and lead, And they're sitting there, siglent, but they see you running around the office and always so busy and never approachable and never available. And as my coach always says, the answer is in the room. And the answer is in your room, your office, at your front desk, at your cubicles, within your legal adminte.

They're the ones on the front line. And if you're feeling frustration or niggle or break down, go talk to them first and foremost and let them know you really want their insight. Thanks for listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast, presented by Market my Market. You can check out additional episodes and recaps at Legalmastermind podcast dot com.