EP 290 - Jeff Hampton - From Views to Clients: The Blueprint for Law Firm Success on YouTube

You always want to open your mind to other marketing avenues and techniques that other people aren't doing, and this is one that anyone can do. I don't care what you think your personality is. I don't care if you don't think you can be good on camera. I wasn't either.

Go watch my old videos. It's pathetic. But over time, if you just improve your videos one percent every time, you'll blow the rest of the competition away as you compound that growth. You're listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast presented by Market My Market with your hosts Eric bersono, Ryan Klein, and Chase Williams, the go to podcast for learning from the experts in the legal community about effective ways to grow and manage your law firm.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Legal Mastermind podcast. Today I have with me Jeff Hampton, who is the owner of YouTube Brainmakers and founder of Fulgram. Hampton criminal defense attorneys and SDR law guys. Jeff, Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks Eric, appreciate it, Man, thanks for letting me come on. Absolutely so you were here to talk about YouTube today, which I think is something that everybody listening should at least be interested in. If they're not already trying it. And I haven't mentioned this, yes, but I see a YouTube plaque or award behind you, so that automatically adds some credibility.

Do you mind giving a little bit of a background in yourself and maybe finished off with what the YouTube award was for? Absolutely? So. Basically I own two law firms.

I also own a lawyer marketing agency in a business called YouTube Brainmakers. But what happened was, you know, back in the pandemic, when everybody was sitting around trying to decide, Hey, you know, what are we going to do? Well, there was two types of people. I found some who just sat around waiting for it to get better, and then there were other people who spent that time trying to double down on strategies that they could earn from and to basically differentiate themselves from their competition.

So I started YouTube. I started working on in YouTube, and I had no idea what I was doing. And I'll just tell you when I first started, I created very embarrassing videos. The number one thing people are afraid of is I don't know how to do this stuff.

I'll look bad on video. Well, first of all, everybody looks bad when they first start, So just throw that out the window. No one cares. And the good news is when you first start, no one's watching your videos anyways, so it doesn't matter.

You got to get that out of the way. But something weird happened when I started doing it about three months into creating videos. And there's a specific strategy that you can use to make this work. Is once I started doing it, I started getting a call or two a week, and it'd be a call saying, hey, I was watching that aggravated assault video on YouTube, and I want to see if I can talk to the guy that was on my video.

And so I'd get on the call and I found a weird thing. I found that my conversion rate for sales calls as a lawyer increased by more than twenty percent with those calls. And so why is that Because they'd already gotten to know me. They watched a long form video.

They watched five At first, I was only doing like five minute videos right now. Mine can sometimes be up to twenty minutes. And what happens is they would go down the rabbit hole. They would watch one video and then they check out another video, and the next thing you know they're watching two, three, and now the average views per viewer on my channel is four.

So the average person who comes to my channel watches four of my long form videos when they get there. So that establishes what no like and trust. So immediately there's authenticity. They get to know my personality, they know who I am.

I've had people call in shortly after that. I have one aggravated assault deadly weapon video that I launched. Terrible video quality and everything echo is just not great, but it's made me over six hundred and fifty thousand dollars from one video. And we use call rail tracking numbers on the videos, so I know where the actual call is coming from, and so I can tell that that helps with establishing where it came from.

But secondly, our intake team is paying attention to see, hey, where did you hear about us? Well, they immediately talk about the YouTube channel many times, and so that perked my ears up. Immediately. I was like, okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, I need to go narrow.

What are the under the eighty twenty principle? What is the twenty percent of my practice areas that made me eighty percent of my money? And now I need to create FAQs. I need to stare at the camera and treat it like I'm giving a free consultation and I'm going to start giving out all this information for free.

And the moment I did that, the phone just kept ringing and ringing and ringing to where Now the channel helps create an additional two million a year in revenue for the criminal practice. Yeah, that's amazing, And you kind of beat me to the punch on one of my first questions, which was I've always thought that video needed to be between thirty and ninety seconds. You didn't want to have these real long videos. And as I went to your channel, I saw there were videos that were fifteen, eighteen, twenty minutes long.

So can you is there a strategy to that? I mean, is they're creating some short form and then making or making one long one and then making clips out of it. What's your strategy? Really great question.

So here's the general rule as when you look at short form content like you know, you can find same thing with Instagram, TikTok, you know that sort of stuff, and YouTube shorts sixty second or less in linked Now, what does that do? It's great to create awareness it creates awareness for someone, But you got to remember that content is swipe content, So it's people sitting at their phone or you know, in the middle of the night or going to bed and they're just swiping. They may watch it, but they have no idea who you are.

And it takes many, many, many exposures to short form content before someone really cares about that because it's not establishing trust or your opportunity to really share and shine on your expertise. So what And I'm not saying it's bad to do short form content, it's not. It's a good way to get some number one. It's a good way to practice in front of the camera.

It's a good way to get comfortable and to really get honed in. And you know, us attorneys have a tendency to be long winded, sometimes myself included. Forcing you to get directly to the point that short form content helps. But it's the long form content that makes you rich when you create that long form content that now I can track the number of calls I now get between one hundred and twenty and one hundred and fifty calls a month locally just from that YouTube channel, and it's high quality leads ready to pay because they've watched long form content and I don't have to go through the full consultation that my team doesn't have to do the consultation because they've already seen this guy knows what he's talking about.

And that's why a lot of my videos will have anywhere between a couple of thousand to ten thousand comments on them, lots of engagement, lots of people asking questions, and so it helps to really establish a brand. Yeah. And the other thing that I've heard from their attorneys who whether they do billboards or they're on TV or they're on the news, is you get this mini celebrity effect to it, meaning they've they already feel like they know you before they've ever met you. And I've had attorneys telling me this before, where I've got some of my clients that meet me and they like they light up because they recognize me from an AD or from a billboard, and obviously if they're consuming a twenty minute long form video on criminal defense or whatever the topic is, they already feel they know you.

Yeah, and that's so true. And you know, I know a lot of people use ads. I've been able to grow as of yet to two hundred and eighty six thousand subscribers. And I've never won run at one ad at all, never run a single ad to promote it.

It's been all organic. Once you begin to understand how the YouTube algorithm works, then what it did, what it does, it's much better than subscribers because there's all types of things out there. People go, well, tune in eighty six thousand subscribers, that's a lot. That's nothing compared to the twelve to fifteen million views I get per month.

And the views is what really matters, because that's the visibility. And the algorithm does an amazing job of promoting and suggesting your content for free in front of people that have that nature of wanting to watch that type of content. Now, not all eyes or eyes people ready to hire you, but I've had people say, hey, my uncle watches your content all the time. And I got arrested for a DWI and he said, I need to call Hampton Law.

Right, So the awareness and the name, the branding can refer end up having referrals from people you've never met. And that's what I find that happens. Because two channels, it doesn't have to be a big channel. Hampton Law is two hundred eighty six thousand subscribers, but I have Jeff Hampton, which is actually under str Law.

Guys, I don't even have four thousand subscribers, and that channel helps establish another thirty to forty thousand a month in revenue because it's about asset protection for real estate investors, different law firm that I own. So that's a good point. You know, you're talking about different practice areas, and I mean there's under criminal defense itself, there's you know, dozens of different types of crimes. How do you go through the process of because if you're doing a twenty minute video, you have to prepare for it.

I assume that you've got kind of an outline and then you go through it. But you want to hit certain beats? How does that process work? So?

Okay, So first of all, I'm going to say this. It pivots over time. So what happens is this at the very beginning, and anytime I would do coaching with someone and someone would call me and say, hey, help me get all this started. The first thing I would say is, look, don't worry about going viral.

You don't have to have tens of thousands of US or hundreds of thousands of use on your video. You just need the right eyeballs. That's all that matters. And so what you do when you first start is just create narrow practice area related content and then you have to optimize it properly with SEO.

So YouTube is the second largest search engine in the world, right behind Google, and so as a result of that, all lawyers are trying to rank on Google, but they're mostly neglecting YouTube. So when I just go where other lawyers aren't, I get all the calls when it comes to the YouTube stuff because you're able to rank much better. So if you put that in play, think about this way. Do all your narrow content first you optimize it for SEO.

You start getting lots of really target rich calls. They're ready, they need your help. Then after you fully exhausted that, because if you go back and look at my content on Hampton Law that's what I did, you'll see tons of really basics, very non impressive videos really in terms of I didn't really up my production value and those sort of things, but they still today are evergreen. They get tons of calls for clients.

Then when you get to a certain place. Now you have to go a little broader. You have to find out. You'll get a lot of data, and you go back to that data and YouTube studio and you can learn who really is my viewer avatar?

Who are the people really watching my content? And once you find out what I learned, I wasn't just a criminal defense People really were watching my stuff because they wanted to know about law enforcement interactions with citizens. Right, And so then there is this way of being able to take your expertise and pop culture and somewhere in the middle is a perfect combination fit where pop culture and your expertise come together and you become a brand. And that's when you start getting calls from CNN, you start getting calls from local news stations and people like that, saying call Hampton law.

That's the guy who's got the YouTube channel and all the stuff that everybody sees. And so those sort of things help you. It creates a snowball effect. So when you ask me how do I script it?

At first, just look at your camera and treat it like a consultation and talk about what you already know. You're the expert, right, don't get bogged down as you begin to really grow though, as as I go broader and I'm really starting to create more viral videos. One of my videos is four point seven million views and several other ones are in the millions of views. Now you have to be super strategic.

Your first thirty seconds is critical. You must script it and memorize it. Because if you don't get your hook right and you don't set the stakes for the video, if you don't make sure and really grab the viewer, then you'll get tons of drop off. Your retention graph will tank.

And so if you get the hook and the first thirty seconds right, then you shine with your content. And there you don't have to necessarily have that stuff memorized or go off a script. You can go off of what you've learned and prepared. And then you get to the end.

You want to have a call to action. Remember you got to tell people maybe they want to work with you. Maybe my biggest call to action is keep watching you like this video, check out this next video about such and such right, And then what they'll do is they'll go, oh my gosh, yes, if they wait it all the way to the end, they watched your content, they're all in and that's how you can end up having this effect, this network effect, where it starts off with one video, then they watch the next one, and then they'll start binge watching it.

And here's the thing, And I know I'm doing a lot of talking here, Eric, but here's the crazy People don't realize YouTube has now taken over over cable for TV watching. So I want you to realize this. Sixty percent, that's six ' oh percent of my content on Hampton Law is watched on a television television. So I have a lot of people who are watching my content and they see it like they would watching twenty twenty or some other show that they're looking at, and so you end up getting really long watch times.

I've got some videos that average view duration people are watching it for seven to eight minutes. They don't drop off, right, And so that sort of stuff helps really create brand, and YouTube wants to play more of it, right. They want to keep people on the platform, so they keep promoting it to other viewers. Yeah, you said two things that are really interesting that I'd like you to dig down on if you could.

One, you said, you've got to post your video and optimize it. Can you give just a couple basic tips of what you mean by optimize the video. Yeah. So one example would be, so if you were to go to my channel and look at aggravated assault deadly weapon video, you can go to I'm gonna give everybody a quick hit here.

Really simple thing they can do. You can go to Google. If you have any Gmail account, you can go to Google, type in keyword planner, and when you click on the keyword planner, the link it'll pull up as part of an AD's ad words. If you do ads at all, it'll pull up the keyword planner.

You could type in aggravated assault, deadly weapon Texas because I'm in Texas right Well, it's going to give you all the search terms related to that. And I want commercial keywords. I want stuff related to people looking for a lawyer to help them. And so what you can do is find out the highest volume search terms and then what do you do?

Number one? You need to structure your title in alignment with some of those words, and then your description. Don't forget the description. There's a description section once you do your video that allows you to describe it.

Think of it as a blog post. In that description, you're going to put those applicable keywords so that way it will rank. You're giving You're giving YouTube signals to let them know what this is about. Then you scroll down to the tags.

In the tag section, you can fill out tags aggravated assault, aggravated assault, deadly weapon, aggravated assault, Texas, aggravated assault. Lawyer. You're putting in all these keywords that make it easy, just like it is for Google. Because Google owns YouTube, you're making it easy for them to rank two places.

Number one, you'll rank in YouTube, but number two, because Google owns YouTube, you'll also rank on Google searches. Because one of the things people don't realize videos pull up on organic Google searches all the time. You will be that video that ranks. And no one wants to read blog posts, but people will watch a video.

Yeah. The other thing you mentioned, which was kind of this Venn diagram of your expertise and kind of pop culture. So with criminal defense, are you talking about commenting on maybe local or national criminal defense stories or is it just picking a topic that's very common in the zeitgeist at the time that you can comment on, or is it really just starting with my topic is DUI and I'm gonna do a video on that. So the best example of this is just to go look at the last year of my content.

If you look at all the last year of my content, it's questions. Like my viral video is five tips whenever cops want to see your guns. That's about as simple as you can get when it comes to a title, and then I break it down for you once you get in the video. So once you're in the video, number one, you got to earn the click.

And if you put too much legal ease in your title or no one's going to click that garbage. People code seven to eight, right, or. Just like you know, you know what happens if a police officer pulls over a suspect. I mean people write stuff like that.

People are like, I'm not watching that. I do not, So it has to be something that resonates. So one of the things I do is I've got lots of just layman friends, Right. I have friends that I'll go and talk to them about a subject and they'll start talking to me and they'll say, yeah, but that's weird.

I wonder why the cop would do this, And then they're giving me ideas where I'm like, I've never even thought about presenting it like that. That frames my title something super simple but creates curiosity, and then the thumbnail creates that too. If you see a lot of my thumbnails, my thumbnails are like action based things where you'll see a police officer engaging someone or something along those lines. That creates intrigue and then people want to know more about that.

But I warn people not to do that when you first start your channel, because it's really hard to go broad and then go narrow, because if you have a channel that goes broad, you might not get all the calls you want for all your narrow content, and it's really hard to go backwards, really hard. So just I tell people. I know people that have less than ten thousand subscribers and they make an extra half a million dollars a year for their business. All they're doing is using narrow content to really go after their niche.

People who are searching for this stuff and have high intent. So if someone wanted a starter kit for this what what I mean obviously needed camera, audio, computer editing software. I'm assuming if someone wanted to start this and they said, look, I'm going to give this a try, I'm not going to go crazy with my production, what would be the minimum that they would need in order to get started with something like this. So one of the things I will say is on my resources page on YouTube brain makers dot com, I actually have a resource that lays out everything you need to get started, including exactly where to order it from on Amazon.

It's real simple. But you don't even have to have all that. I mean, you know what I started with is I started with an iPhone. I started with an iPhone where I had it on one of those ring lights where it it would hold the phone, and I just looked at the iPhone and I was me and I talked about talking, you know, talked about practicing, and I was just real and you know, don't worry about screwing up.

If you screw up the first time, just delete it and do it again, right, And so I started off with that. The hardest thing for people to do is get started. Once they do it and they launch a few of those videos, they get past that, and you know, you have to be willing. There's different types of people.

Some people are the go getters and their self starters, and they want to do it on their own and they want to di Wyatt. Other people want somebody to walk them through that journey so that they only have to record it and make it easier on them. And that's part of why I started YouTube Ringmakers, was to provide that agency approach. But what I find is this is the competitive advantage.

Even mister Beaeste said, you know the big entertainer, mister Beast. He said, what he expects over the next ten years is you're going to see an explosion in professional service businesses on YouTube. He said, You're going to find people like doctors, lawyers, accountants. They're going to wake up and go, WHOA, I can make a ton of money if I promote myself on YouTube.

It's free and it creates that long form no like and trust once you start doing it. So, you mentioned that you are over two hundred and eighty thousand subscribers, hadn't paid for any of them. Do you do any boosting? And again, I'm somewhat of a novice at YouTube.

This was just natural through the algorithm. And then I guess the follow up questions that would be, so who's subscribing to the content, because you're handling people who you know, a subset of people who get arrested and needed a criminal defense attorney. But I assume there's some entertainment value that people want to see more and more of these videos. Yeah, so I'm on the I'm in a different phase than what a lot of my clients would be in at the beginning, which because at the beginning, it's all about investing in your business.

It's all about let's create content that only has the right eyeballs, which sometimes people get down about it because they maybe they only get five hundred views or maybe they only get seven hundred and fifty views. But who cares If you get three clients from it, right, you just made an extra ten or fifteen thousand dollars. So it's strategically created content. Now for me, eventually, what ends up happening is you transition into brand building.

I'm now building a brand because once you do that, you can leverage that two hundred and eighty six thousand subscribers into so many other areas. You can now use it to grow a TikTok following, which I only have ten thousand. But it's a different age group, you have different demographics. You can hit there.

One establishes authority for the other, and then what ends up taking place. Is that that being put in place allows me to leverage in other capacities. You grow and you kind of you stare step your way up. And I don't care that a lot of people who will never hire me are subscribers.

That's fine. Now here's the thing that'll blow your mind. Once you build a brand on YouTube, I can get paid ten to fifteen thousand dollars a month in ad sense revenue and guess what I do. Pump it back into my business for marketing.

So now I can take what YouTube pays me to do what I already do and just put it back in my business and double down on making more money. So I get paid by YouTube to make an extra two million dollars a year. So once you figure that out, but it's a step. You got to grow your way into it.

And that's why I tell people don't worry about going viral. Right when you go viral, by the way, you'll end up doing it by accident. You didn't do it. There's nothing premeditated about going viral.

You learn your lessons about how to do it again after you've done it the first time. And it's that is not the focus. The focus is just covering what your expertise is. And when you start getting those calls, boy, you'll keep doing it.

You'll keep creating the content. That's a good question or a good point. You know, what's this valley of just speaking into an iPhone in a ring light that you have to wade through before you start to get some positive reinforcement? You know, are we talking I know it's not a week, but are are we talking six months a year before you really start to see some effects from it.

So I'm going to tell you this. The longer people wait to dive into this, the longer it will take to get the results. Because here's the thing. Very few jorneys, very few professionals are doing it now.

But if you know, mister Beast used to say, you got to make a hundred videos and don't even look to see who pays attention to it. He would say, you first got to put in your reps. Like you know, if you want to get in shape, you got to work out a while before you start seeing any results. And it's the same thing with YouTube.

But I am going to tell you I started seeing results, and I had defined results as phone calls. I started seeing results in about three months from what I was doing, and I didn't know what I was doing. And so if it's done properly, which is why I tried to reverse engineer a lot of my path of what I did here, if it's done properly, you I mean, attorneys now pay SEO agencies for they sign a contract for a year, and many times they're paying I'm a fortune. And what does the SEO agency say it going to take six to nine months or a year before you get any results, right?

They say that all the time, and many times you don't even get the results. And the reality of it is here you have control over your content, your messaging, and you'll start getting those calls usually within three to six months. That's my experience. And is there a cadence or is it just pump out as much content as you can in the beginning to get your reps in practice being on camera, go back watch them, post them, no matter what, but go back watch them, learn how to improve on them, and just put it out there.

Put it out there. So that's that's really good point. Now, if I were to start a you, if I were to start a YouTube channel again for what I'm doing now, I would want to post as many videos as I could at first, and in fact, I would want to save up about five videos and launch five at you know, near or at the same time. And the reason why is this, when you first start a channel, YouTube doesn't know who you are.

So imagine when you start a channel and you pump out a video, YouTube's like, who is this? I don't even know what they stand for? What else are they doing? But if you put out five videos and you launched them at one time, you're giving a data sample to YouTube, so where they now know, Okay, wait a minute, this guy's done five videos.

It looks like it's all about these things. We can now categorize him properly in the algorithm here, so we can now suggest his videos to this type of audience, and it allows you to start getting traction quicker. I didn't know that when I started. I only started doing just one video a week, and I would just And you want to make it easy.

You want to make this where it's doable and you don't stress yourself out feeling like you've got to do a ton of this type of work every day. And that's why short form content is a great way to get started. If you want the dopamine hit of feeling like you got something in return, even if it's not a phone call. Doing shorts will get you some subscribers, kind of like the guy you talked about where he did something on TikTok or Instagram or whatever.

Right, he didn't make any money or Facebook, but it made him feel good because he got all these people. That's a dopamine hit. That is what I call a vanity metric. It's not necessarily what you really should be caring about.

You really should be caring about putting out what you stand for, your brand, and how you differentiate yourself by the expertise you Then you'll start getting those calls. Now, YouTube is obviously worldwide. Are you getting calls from all over the country? How are you honing it to actually serve your practice the best.

So that's a great point, and that's part of the reason why I started the YouTube channel for my asset protection business. That business is nationwide and so it's wonderful because everybody sees it, they call in. Now here's the thing. When you first start, this is why you seo everything to where you are.

Everything I talked about was the Texas penal code. Everything related to aggravated assault shoplifting in Texas. So I knew people that were looking at that were going to be local specific something I could service. But as you get bigger, yes, I have some other friends of mine who also run channels even bigger than mine, And what they do is they turn around and sell those leads to other people.

Right, you can. Actually, there's an old saying that you know. There's a guy named Alex, big name marketer guy. He says, every business is a leads business.

If someone can't help, if you can't help them, someone else can, and you can always refer them to someone and make money off of it. So there's so many different ways to create a network from what comes in that you can find ways of ancillary services to be able to work with other people and be able to share those leads. Well, let's talk kind of to close things up here. Let's talk about you've got a couple of different law firms and businesses.

Let's talk about your business where you help attorneys do this because my guess is ninety nine zero point nine percent of the attorneys out there need help. They're not just going to go sit in front of a phone. You had a calling to do this. During COVID you took all the bumps and bruises, and I'm thinking smooth things out for them.

Can you explain that approach? So if attorney is interested in starting a YouTube channel. How that process would work with you. Yeah.

So, first of all, anybody that has questions about it, even just starting their journey, you can hit me up on LinkedIn. You can look up Jeff Hampton. You'll see it's mentioned they're YouTube brain Makers. I also have a direct page YouTube Brainmakers dot Com.

And I have a couple of different services. One, I provide a full service agency where very few of these exist anywhere in the country, where literally we do a deep dive, help you understand your market, reverse engineer what I did, and make it applicable to you so you're not going to have to go through all of that. There is a full service option. The second option is we actually have a course.

It's a ten module course. There's always some do it yourselfers out there that want to kind of learn it themselves. That course actually walks you through the entire process of how I went from beginning to where I'm at now, and that is an option. Finally, we also have brain Maker Consulting, where I do some just consulting for people.

There's some people who maybe have ten thousand subscribers and they're like, hey, I'm just I'm getting caught up here. I don't know what the next thing is to do. Where is my bottleneck? And I do some specific coaching for that, So you know, I've gotten to the place now.

Thankfully I work on my business, but not in my law firms. So those law firms are all being managed and I have a stake in them, but I'm not active there, so I can really spend a lot of time in the passion, which for me happens to be YouTube, and really what can be done with it? Because I'm going to tell you this, if there's civil lawyers listening to me, if there's probate, all those you haven't even begun to scratch the surface of where you can use lead magnets and ways you can build your email lists through YouTube and you can actually now own your traffic and these are ways that once you do it correctly through YouTube, there's ways that you can just compound your growth.

Yeah, I think it's an opportunity that's fresh and fertile right now. You know, anybody who's got a website right now is doing some sort of some sort of optimization to it. People are spending money in PPC, and like I said mentioned before billboards, it sounds to me from your experience, YouTube is still pretty fertile ground and if people want to jump in and early, they can get rewarded for it. So yeah, and you know, it's probably not fertile for all the entertainment YouTubers.

There's plenty of those. But what it is fertile is there are a lot of businesses that don't think they can do it, and so the water is warm. There's not many fish in this pond. It's easy to get in right now.

Once people start figuring it out, obviously, like anything else, it becomes more competitive, and then those that are the early adopters have a competitive advantage where they can I mean, think how long it's going to take somebody to catch up to my two hundred and eighty six thousand subscribers and the fifteen million a month reach. Those are things that create a moat around your business and really help you to be able to establish that competitive advantage. So, yes, it is fertile right now, and I'm still learning new ways to be able to leverage that audience, and so I think it's a great opportunity for everybody, law firm owners specifically where they can leverage this well.

Jeff, is there anything that we didn't cover that you think the audience audience are known about before we sign off? No, I appreciate Eric, You've given me the opportunity to speak with you and share this with everybody that you know. At the end of the day, you always want to open your mind to other marketing avenues and techniques that other people aren't doing, and this is one that anyone can do. I don't care what you think your personality is.

I don't think if I don't care if you don't think you can be good on camera. I wasn't either. Go watch my old videos. It's pathetic.

But over time, if you just improve your videos one percent every time, you'll blow the rest of the competition away as you compound that growth. Well, if you're listening to this and you didn't buy bitcoin back in two thousand or in video, you still have a chance to make some really good money by becoming a YouTube star. And I do mean that in all serious Jeff has built up an amazing following. Obviously it's been very successful, and I still think it's time attorneys can or attorneys have time that they can jump into this.

So thank you Jeff for sharing all that with the audience. Thanks Eric, appreciate it. Thanks for listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast presented by Market My Market. You can check out additional episodes and recaps at Legalmastermind podcast dot com.