The Art of Differentiation: Reclaiming the Human Touch in Sales with Patrick Kagan

1 - > Patrick Kagan: Hate your current situation so much, hate your 2 - > pain right now so much on the inside that you do something 3 - > positive about it on the outside . 4 - > Voice Over: Everything leads to growth with the National 5 - > Association for Sales Professionals. 6 - > The Leads to Growth podcast with the National Association 7 - > for Sales Professionals provides in-depth discussions, sharing 8 - > the best sales prospecting, influence and communication 9 - > skills, as well as sales training techniques to take your 10 - > professional sales career to the next level.

11 - > Chris McCoy: Hello and welcome to another episode of You Guess 12 - > That Leads to Growth, y'all. 13 - > My name is Chris McCoy, your host with the National 14 - > Association of Sales Professionals, and today you 15 - > know we've got an OG in the game . 16 - > We've got Patrick Kagan. 17 - > How you doing, patrick, i'm good Chris.

18 - > How you doing, i'm doing very well. 19 - > You know, when I say an OG, you know we talk to a lot of people 20 - > that are in the marketing space , in this space, that space. 21 - > But Patrick is a bit in the marketing space now. 22 - > But this guy has led senior sales and national sales for 23 - > companies such as Procter and Gamble, hewlett Packard and many 24 - > others.

25 - > You know he now owns Marketing Agency PK Solutions Group and is 26 - > also internationally renowned podcast host and business coach 27 - > and author of the new book, which is really why I wanted to 28 - > have him on the podcast today. 29 - > Sell the difference the alternate guide to increasing 30 - > sales, profits and customer satisfaction through the art of 31 - > differentiation, differentiation , different There's an extra, a 32 - > differentiation. 33 - > Patrick Kagan: Differentiation.

34 - > Chris McCoy: Differentiation. 35 - > There we go. 36 - > I'm a little slow this morning. 37 - > y'all It's OK.

38 - > Differentiation And this is. 39 - > You know that we talk about this all the time on the show. 40 - > We become robots often time and sales, especially the SDR work. 41 - > You follow the scripts, you follow, you know all these 42 - > things, your mass and out people messages.

43 - > We lost the humanness of sales a lot in what we do, and that's 44 - > where our uniqueness is, that's where our unique selling 45 - > proposition is, that's where our only statement is, that's where 46 - > our differentiation is And this is where people want to connect 47 - > with us. 48 - > And I love that you brought this to the table, Patrick. 49 - > What brought you to this? 50 - > writing this book here today, man?

51 - > Patrick Kagan: Yeah, cool. 52 - > And when I hear oh gee, i just think original guru. 53 - > So I'm really I'm really I'm thrilled. 54 - > So I mean, you know, it's a life's journey when anybody 55 - > writes a book.

56 - > For sure, whatever stage of life they're at, whatever 57 - > they've had before, that has prepared them for that. 58 - > And my world, like you had mentioned, was a lot of Fortune 59 - > 500 companies, always an entrepreneur deep down in my 60 - > heart. 61 - > And so when I left and decided to have my own thing 15 years 62 - > ago, it wasn't that I was a disgruntled employee and you 63 - > know screw the man type of thing , as much as I just knew that I 64 - > liked doing my own thing and growing my own business and 65 - > responsiveness to clients, and I did find that I could 66 - > differentiate much quicker working on my own as opposed to 67 - > working through an organization.

68 - > There's many layers and that type of thing. 69 - > So that's, you know, kind of what led me to write in my book. 70 - > When I first started trying to write a book it was about 1998, 71 - > 1999. 72 - > And I was a road warrior.

73 - > I was traveling coast to coast as on and off a plane all the 74 - > time. 75 - > My motivation and road warriors , everything in the past now 76 - > That's a thing of the past, yeah , but my motivation was to get 77 - > off the road. 78 - > I wanted to stop living in hotels and that type of thing 79 - > And I would hit writer's block time and time again because my 80 - > motivation was really more of a self-serving type thing and 81 - > avoid the travel as opposed to what is this about and who is it 82 - > for and what will it do for them.

83 - > So flash forward to about a year and a half or two years ago and 84 - > on my own podcast, one of my guests happens to be one of the 85 - > top published authors in the world. 86 - > I didn't know this and I'm just having a great conversation 87 - > with this guy And we finish and we talk offline and he says when 88 - > are you publishing your book? 89 - > I'm like I don't have a book. 90 - > He's like you have three books for sure.

91 - > You just need clarity in which book you're going to publish 92 - > first. 93 - > And he's like you have a way of differentiating your points. 94 - > And that hit me. 95 - > I'm like that's kind of what has helped me to succeed in 96 - > sales.

97 - > And so he mentored me and helped me through getting 98 - > clarity of vision. 99 - > What is differentiation? 100 - > Why is it important? 101 - > And it was really telling to me And you mentioned something 102 - > about how we can kind of lose something compared to the old 103 - > days, where we're back in the days where it was face to face 104 - > time with clients.

105 - > And when the pandemic hits the world, it suddenly runs zoom 106 - > calls and we get farther removed , and the farther removed the 107 - > more similar we become. 108 - > In sales. 109 - > Similarity is a death wish and you need to differentiate. 110 - > So the importance now is greater than ever before, and 111 - > it's the number one most important skill and yet the 112 - > number one most neglected skill.

113 - > You don't find professional development seminars devoted to 114 - > differentiation. 115 - > This book is a playbook on how to do that. 116 - > Chris McCoy: I really love that And it speaks a lot to there's 117 - > definitely differences, but it speaks a lot to the training 118 - > that we offer at NASP And I think what happens is, even if 119 - > you do, let's say, you take the time to find out what makes you 120 - > different and what makes you special, right, you still have 121 - > to maintain that internal motivation, to trust that within 122 - > you and to go out there.

123 - > Because the challenge with salespeople is they may roll 124 - > into sales feeling different and feeling unique And really that 125 - > joy of a salesperson when they first start a position, 126 - > especially back in the day when it wasn't just sitting behind a 127 - > desk picking up a phone. 128 - > We actually work it to go out there and talk to people. 129 - > You'd see this, what do we call it? 130 - > blind ignorance?

131 - > They would do amazing because they would say that way. 132 - > Once they got beaten down, once the outside started changing 133 - > how they feel on the inside, once they became externally 134 - > motivated as opposed to the internal motivation, that's when 135 - > they started to get. 136 - > They started to look like everyone else and respond like 137 - > yeah. 138 - > Patrick Kagan: And this book is all about finding the intrinsic 139 - > value for you as a salesperson And, more importantly, for the 140 - > customer.

141 - > See, the real important thing about this book is it's your 142 - > sales secret weapon, because you learn to sell the way a 143 - > customer is longing to buy. 144 - > They are tired of salespeople all sounding the same And at 145 - > some point they carry around this invisible mute button and 146 - > they put you on mute and you have to ask yourself how often 147 - > am I presenting on mute? 148 - > Sometimes I win a sale. 149 - > I don't even know how it happened.

150 - > Sometimes I don't get a sale. 151 - > I don't know how that happened. 152 - > And so the whole thing is really looking at how does a 153 - > person choose to buy, how do they want to buy, and do we 154 - > spend time with the right clients or do we just spend time 155 - > with all others? 156 - > And that's the two categories I put them in.

157 - > Chris McCoy: So let's get down to some action steps. 158 - > All right, so I'm a salesperson out there. 159 - > and what are the foundations of differentiation? 160 - > Yeah, so I'm a salesperson out there.

161 - > or also, your book talks about the four disciplines. 162 - > Yeah, where can we start to really understand what this is 163 - > and how we can break it down within what we are? 164 - > Patrick Kagan: Yeah, there's two things. 165 - > So the first is really understanding where 166 - > differentiation comes from, and a lot of times we hear people 167 - > use words that have become buzzwords.

168 - > I hear people all the time saying I'm authentically curious 169 - > or I'm curious Well, it's become a buzzword and it's lost 170 - > its value. 171 - > So differentiation is an outcome of two things a stimulus 172 - > and a response. 173 - > The stimulus is true empathy. 174 - > You're able to truly experience , or have experience or see 175 - > things from the other person's side.

176 - > Empathy meaning I see, feel and know what another group or 177 - > person or corporation is going through. 178 - > I felt your pain. 179 - > Other customers of mine have felt your pain. 180 - > Let me not jump on this with a one size fits all solution.

181 - > Let me dig into what's causing your pain but, more importantly, 182 - > what's the cost of that pain to you? 183 - > Is it time, is it energy? 184 - > Is it manpower? 185 - > So the stimulus is empathy.

186 - > The response, then, is curiosity. 187 - > You ask questions that have to do with what if? 188 - > and your customer, if you have an ideal customer. 189 - > They respond to what if It's like?

190 - > what if we do nothing? 191 - > What will happen to you? 192 - > What if we implement my changes ? 193 - > What will happen to you?

194 - > What if we implement part of this? 195 - > What if we try to do this for less money. 196 - > What if, what if, what if is the curiosity driver, and that's 197 - > what drives differentiation. 198 - > That's the first part.

199 - > Chris McCoy: And just a comment on that. 200 - > He said something. 201 - > He said true empathy. 202 - > Don't fake the empathy, y'all.

203 - > That's even worse than not pretending to be empathetic. 204 - > There's nothing worse than somebody going oh really, oh man 205 - > , well, tell me what would happen if you don't buy for me 206 - > today? 207 - > How bad would that hurt you? 208 - > When you can tell it's just a manipulation, when it's 209 - > inauthentic?

210 - > you have to be authentic and you have to truly care about 211 - > that person. 212 - > So ask it in the proper way. 213 - > So don't ask it. 214 - > Hey, what happens if you don't buy today?

215 - > Ask it why is this an urgent decision for you all right now? 216 - > I mean really, what is this costing you on a daily So we can 217 - > really and be real, talk to them like they're a real person. 218 - > Why am I seeing this? 219 - > so that we can both understand logically the pain.

220 - > Because if there isn't costing you anything, then you're not 221 - > going to have an urgency to buy And I'm not going to have an 222 - > urgency to sell you because there's not a really big 223 - > difference in doing the business . 224 - > So now we can both walk away together evenly and happily. 225 - > But if there is a pain there and if it is costing us, then 226 - > our awareness will be an insight for us to make a good, smart, 227 - > educated decision. 228 - > Patrick Kagan: Absolutely.

229 - > And you made some great points, because sincerity is really 230 - > what you do, not what you say, and so everything speaks. 231 - > So I could lie to your face with a smile on my face, and you 232 - > could say, hey, he's a trustworthy guy and blah, blah, 233 - > blah. 234 - > But I lied to you. 235 - > But my actions will never lie.

236 - > Actions are truth. 237 - > That's why, when you're on mute , what you do speaks louder than 238 - > what you say. 239 - > And remember, customers are conditioned that all you 240 - > salespeople sound the same And you don't know your value. 241 - > So I will tell you your value And ultimately, i have to do my 242 - > job.

243 - > I'm going to buy from somebody. 244 - > I want to eliminate that, and so what I do to differentiate is 245 - > I demonstrate differentiation. 246 - > The minute someone tells you you know, i'm a kind person, i'm 247 - > curious. 248 - > Well, it makes you question if you are, why do you have to say 249 - > it?

250 - > Chris McCoy: I literally just had this conversation with a 251 - > coworker the other day And I love him And the fact that we 252 - > got into it, was you know, and really just decided to 253 - > understand each other was really even more fun about it. 254 - > But the fact is he said, oh, i'm curious. 255 - > I said no, no, no. 256 - > Now I know that you're just trying to manipulate me, because 257 - > if you're curious, you would have asked a question a minute 258 - > ago, before this became a, before I became a little upset 259 - > and moved away from this thing Now, because you've realized 260 - > you've lost me.

261 - > Now you're coming back and telling me you're curious, when 262 - > I obviously know that you're not , and so that was a good point 263 - > And you just illustrated. 264 - > Patrick Kagan: you just illustrated a great point. 265 - > So in that scenario, if you're the client and that person is 266 - > the salesperson curiosity, empathy, differentiation, they 267 - > exist in your mind. 268 - > first you recognize it, that nobody has to say it, and when 269 - > they say it they take away from themselves And you know right 270 - > now everybody's saying they're curious and authentic and 271 - > playful and everything else.

272 - > And salespeople they learn through model behavior. 273 - > they may have learned the wrong model behavior and they go 274 - > repeat that. 275 - > So you have to take a step back and you have to say what is my 276 - > ideal customer? 277 - > look like, sound like, how do they do business?

278 - > And then what is an ideal sales person look like and sound like 279 - > and how do they do business? 280 - > And you have to marry the two up And I spend a lot of time 281 - > reminding people that they spend time with the wrong people, 282 - > because those people spend money with their company. 283 - > And I'm not saying let go of all your corporate objectives or 284 - > don't make your goals or don't go out and sell. 285 - > But if a salesperson is selling and spending time with a wrong 286 - > client, that client will leave you.

287 - > But if you spend time with the right client, they'll never 288 - > leave you. 289 - > So empathy and curiosity is what everything is built on. 290 - > Now you asked me about the four disciplines of execution. 291 - > No, i'm sorry, go ahead.

292 - > No, no, no, that's it man. 293 - > Yeah So four disciplines of execution. 294 - > that's the cornerstones of what guided me through building this 295 - > book and my consulting program. 296 - > So it's not a chapter in there.

297 - > you won't find it in there, so you'll hear it now. 298 - > And by the way, chris, just for your listeners, i put together 299 - > a promo code, only for your listeners. 300 - > So if they decide they like this book and they want to go 301 - > and order this book at the point of purchase the promo code 302 - > McCoy, your last name they get another 10% off the book. 303 - > Yeah, so it's bringing value to everybody already, But the four 304 - > disciplines.

305 - > Chris McCoy: MCC, oh why. 306 - > Patrick Kagan: MCC, oh why? 307 - > Yeah, And it's, it's, it's well worth it at the face value. 308 - > But if I have another 10, 10% off for your listeners, it would 309 - > be a nice, nice treat.

310 - > So let's get into the four disciplines of differentiation. 311 - > So the first one and I don't I don't promote hate ever in 312 - > anything. 313 - > I'm not a fan of that as a motivator. 314 - > But when it comes to being disciplined, i do use it to make 315 - > my point Hate your current situation so much, hate your 316 - > pain right now, so much on the inside, that you do something 317 - > positive about it on the outside .

318 - > And I'll give you an example. 319 - > I'm a, i'm a military veteran. 320 - > I spoke with a lot of veterans when I was putting together and 321 - > compiling notes for this book And the topic of prisoner of war 322 - > came up. 323 - > And it's a horrific experience for sure.

324 - > But I did discover two different mindsets. 325 - > There were those that, to get them through that experience, 326 - > they maintained hope, hope for seeing their family, hope for 327 - > the war to end, hope for whatever situation, and they 328 - > would put up with any hardship to get to that hope. 329 - > That's a mindset That's good. 330 - > That's a survival mindset.

331 - > There are others that said I hate this so much, there is no 332 - > risk too great for me to get the hell out of this situation Now. 333 - > Both are both our mindsets, both our strategies. 334 - > Neither are wrong. 335 - > But for differentiation, you need to hate losing income, you 336 - > need to hate losing customers, you need to hate to drift 337 - > through your career or you need to hate the fact that you don't 338 - > know how to forecast And you have to go through that with 339 - > your boss all the time.

340 - > Hate something so much that you do something about it. 341 - > That's the first. 342 - > Chris McCoy: Patrick, i love that We talk about that at NASP. 343 - > We talk about that as moving towards and moving away from 344 - > right.

345 - > Yeah, oftentimes moving away from pain, the pain of like I 346 - > can't live here in this way. 347 - > Another second I can't get up and do this sales job and feel 348 - > this pain. 349 - > Another I hate this so much that I have to do something to 350 - > change right. 351 - > And that's a great motive.

352 - > That's gas on the fire that can sometimes get you going. 353 - > It won't sustain you forever. 354 - > You better then switch to that. 355 - > All right.

356 - > Now I want to get to this now. 357 - > So bad, because now I've tasted the new. 358 - > I've tasted what success feels like. 359 - > I've tasted what happiness on a daily feels like.

360 - > I've tasted what rock in my sales calls a knock, caring at 361 - > all if a person says yes or no, because I know I'm delivering 362 - > value and now I want that all the time. 363 - > Patrick Kagan: Yeah, and you know you're exactly right, 364 - > because hate Hating your situation right now, that's 365 - > motivation. 366 - > So motivation is getting up right And loving the outcomes. 367 - > That's momentum.

368 - > So you're really after momentum . 369 - > Momentum keeps you going. 370 - > So I hate gets you to stand up. 371 - > Momentum keeps you going.

372 - > So hate turns to love. 373 - > I love this so much and I did a really cool experiment with a 374 - > leader in a sales organization a small group, probably five, six 375 - > salespeople and Scratching your head my salespeople are lazy, 376 - > they're not motivated. 377 - > I created this incentive plan. 378 - > I'm gonna pay them all this when they do all this.

379 - > I said, okay, i think they're more motivated by Stop behavior 380 - > rather than start behavior. 381 - > So let me suggest to you That you give them the commissions 382 - > right now. 383 - > Give it to them. 384 - > Well, i haven't done anything.

385 - > I said give it to him. 386 - > It's theirs to lose. 387 - > See what happens. 388 - > They blew through the objectives.

389 - > He couldn't get them to get up and move because he wasn't 390 - > addressing what they hate. 391 - > They hated the idea of giving the money back. 392 - > Yeah but they weren't motivated by doing more to get that money. 393 - > Chris McCoy: Another I love, i absolutely love that.

394 - > And another. 395 - > Another replacement for that hate is that fear. 396 - > Patrick Kagan: Yeah, yeah, fears , great motivation. 397 - > Chris McCoy: I'm afraid of losing that.

398 - > Patrick Kagan: I brought this money home, said to my 399 - > Significant others look at what my boss gave me today. 400 - > Wow, what do you have to do? 401 - > I just have to go out and sell blah, blah, blah. 402 - > We'll go do it.

403 - > You know your, your home life becomes. 404 - > You're afraid to lose it. 405 - > So so hate your current situation. 406 - > That's the first one second Discipline of differentiation is 407 - > you need to inspect what you expect.

408 - > Okay and I you can change the words, i like to play with this 409 - > introspect what you extra aspect what I want in the external 410 - > world is What I need to be doing on my internal world. 411 - > So when I say build an ideal customer profile, i'm also 412 - > saying you need to stop and figure out what's an ideal 413 - > salesperson profile. 414 - > So the greatest analogy would be you know someone who plays 415 - > basketball and They expect they want to be a better rebounder.

416 - > Okay. 417 - > So you can't say, if you say, okay, now I'm gonna be a 418 - > rebounder, well you're not a rebounder. 419 - > But when you're jumping more, when you're doing the exercises 420 - > to become a rebounder, well then the whole world can see. 421 - > It is obvious.

422 - > And you need to say, wow, i inspect what I expect. 423 - > I was rebounding ten rebounds a game. 424 - > Now I'm at 20. 425 - > It's working.

426 - > Chris McCoy: I Love that. 427 - > I love that You know that. 428 - > a couple things come to mind. 429 - > you know, um, what's the quote about culture?

430 - > what you measure, you can improve, peter Drucker, i think, 431 - > is what you said, and then also You mentioned something else 432 - > there that really clicked with me and I can't Before you said 433 - > what you inspect, you, you say introspect what you extra, extra 434 - > aspect and what you say right before that. 435 - > Patrick Kagan: That you want to inspect what you expect. 436 - > So if you want to become something, you need to see that. 437 - > Chris McCoy: Become, that's the word, yeah, but come, we call it 438 - > becoming over getting.

439 - > Oftentimes you want to get the thing and when you want to get 440 - > the thing, you're frustrated because you don't get the thing 441 - > and you focus On having the thing. 442 - > and when you start to do the things to become the person that 443 - > gets the thing And you're focusing on the things that you 444 - > have to do to become Rewarding, it's more fulfilling, it's more 445 - > joyful than it gets you there. 446 - > So, yeah, i really love that. 447 - > Patrick Kagan: It's there, all right because it becomes, 448 - > implies the journey and implies ownership, which I'm a big fan 449 - > of.

450 - > I learned this the hard way When my kids were growing up and 451 - > they would break a cell phone, i'd get them another one and I 452 - > found that their their cell phones are breaking like crazy. 453 - > Then when I said you have to buy it, wow, did they take care 454 - > of it? 455 - > Wow, cell phones weren't breaking. 456 - > So and that was a lesson in leadership and a lesson in and I 457 - > distinguish leadership versus management.

458 - > But when you lead salespeople, it's okay that they have skin in 459 - > the game. 460 - > You don't have to give them everything, and you're not. 461 - > And if you do everything for them, they can't do it when 462 - > you're not there. 463 - > Let them become The vision of what they believe and marry that 464 - > up with what you want, and that's differentiation as a 465 - > leader.

466 - > So hate your current situation so much you do something about 467 - > it. 468 - > Inspect what you expect. 469 - > The last two are Simple and concept and very hard in 470 - > practice. 471 - > The the third discipline of differentiation is you have to 472 - > do this daily.

473 - > Differentiation is an unnatural Skill set. 474 - > You have to learn it, but you have to practice it. 475 - > And I put together in in sell the difference, two visual cues 476 - > a sales differentiation curve from the sales perspective and 477 - > you marry that up with a sales differentiation curve from the 478 - > client perspective and they don't match. 479 - > And When you do this, what it illustrates clearly is 480 - > Differentiation.

481 - > And success with differentiation is fluid, 482 - > meaning it wants to flow downhill again. 483 - > We have bad habits We want to fall back into. 484 - > We go back to what's been modeled for us. 485 - > If we change jobs and we want to show our boss how good we are 486 - > , we go back to things we knew.

487 - > But differentiation is the long game. 488 - > It is something you do for the long game. 489 - > So when I say, identify the qualities of your ideal customer 490 - > and spend time with them, you're doing business with a lot 491 - > of folks who are not ideal. 492 - > They'll switch on you and a dime, but you need to do 493 - > business with them and you need to maintain your performance so 494 - > that you have a job, but do it with a long-term view and a 495 - > long-term effort and commit to it every single day.

496 - > So you have to do Differentiation daily. 497 - > I still have to remind myself What's going to make me 498 - > different in this situation. 499 - > What do I say and do? 500 - > that sounds exactly like everybody else.

501 - > I was at a networking event last night. 502 - > I literally spent an hour ahead of time Previewing and 503 - > reviewing What's my elevator pitch, because I don't want to 504 - > go there and ramble and I don't want to sound like everybody 505 - > else, because there's 80 people in the room and Most of them are 506 - > there for the free food, but you're gonna find the one or two 507 - > that really want to find that person that resonates with them. 508 - > So daily practice and I still do it.

509 - > Chris McCoy: I love that, and I love that about networking 510 - > events too I always go. 511 - > When I find my one or two, i'm out once. 512 - > Once I got those two contacts, i'm like all right, cool, i'm 513 - > gonna grab some food and I'm out of here, because that's yeah, 514 - > i'm saturated. 515 - > And then just collecting business cards after that, yeah 516 - > exactly.

517 - > Patrick Kagan: I don't want to do speed dating for business 518 - > cards, not at all, and I love what you said of commitment and 519 - > consistency. 520 - > Chris McCoy: It's a. 521 - > I mean, if you want to make it your stand, it's hard to do it 522 - > sometimes, right, it's hard to change standard from from 523 - > something lower to something that's stretching yourself. 524 - > Yeah, you do it.

525 - > It becomes who you are and it becomes easy. 526 - > Yeah, what I always thought the challenge was, patrick, was 527 - > when it wasn't my standard. 528 - > I would then have to measure and judge every situation and 529 - > every person based on if I thought there was an opportunity 530 - > there or it was worth maintaining my standards. 531 - > Right, that is this constant negotiation struggle.

532 - > Am I making the right decision When, when you make it your 533 - > standard, it's just easy to make the right decision, and that 534 - > way, i mean, you're really being a true human. 535 - > You're doing it out of proper intent, you're doing it not to 536 - > get something out of return, but you're doing it because it is 537 - > who you are, and then it's that's when it's appreciated. 538 - > Patrick Kagan: Well, and that's one of the things I try to 539 - > practice, what I preach.

540 - > So one of the things I do as differentiation as an author 541 - > those folks that they get my book I'm accessible to them, 542 - > they can. 543 - > they can check in with me and ask me and have questions like 544 - > that Like, are my standards too high? 545 - > Am I off? 546 - > And that's not something I build them.

547 - > They're not on the clock for that. 548 - > They're one of my readers, they're one of my followers. 549 - > There's abundance I'm building around myself. 550 - > that has nothing to do with you doing a transaction to buy a 551 - > book or one of my downloads.

552 - > So I make myself accessible and there are not a lot of authors 553 - > that do that. 554 - > will take your phone call and say, yeah, chris, you know your 555 - > standard is high or your KPIs are often, do you know what that 556 - > does to your employees? 557 - > We spend some quality time. 558 - > I'm sure there are people who charge for that.

559 - > It's just not about me. 560 - > Chris McCoy: There are a lot of authors that do not not with 561 - > your resume, though, unfortunately. 562 - > Patrick Kagan: Yeah Well and then finally the last. 563 - > The last discipline and it takes discipline is patience.

564 - > And it's patience because not only are you learning a new 565 - > skill, but once you've learned it, you're never perfecting it. 566 - > It's like yoga you're practicing it. 567 - > So you have to be patient with yourself, patient with the 568 - > practice. 569 - > The practice has to be the joy And you, you don't ever do 570 - > anything wrong with differentiation.

571 - > You learn from. 572 - > It's like an experiment. 573 - > You're like a scientist. 574 - > There's not a mistake that you have to start over.

575 - > I learned, i got this far. 576 - > I learned. 577 - > Now, when you go back, let me just avoid that circumstance a 578 - > little further and let me try to disprove myself And then, when 579 - > I can't, i have differentiated. 580 - > When you do that, you'll know you'll hear customers saying I 581 - > never thought about it like that before, chris.

582 - > Oh, I never heard it that way before. 583 - > Oh, chris, i just left that company and went here. 584 - > Can you come with me? 585 - > Those are signs that you have differentiated yourself.

586 - > Chris McCoy: And you just stealing my language right from 587 - > my head, and I love it so much, man, i think practice I've 588 - > always reminded of Alan Iverson's practice. 589 - > You're talking about practice, but I mean practice is it's a 590 - > lost art, it is. 591 - > It is the most fun play that we could ever have as humans, and 592 - > there's so many different areas in which we can practice which 593 - > we don't. 594 - > We go out there and we play freaking Stanley Cup finals, you 595 - > know, super Bowl championship on every single thing that we do 596 - > , we put out there to to the world And we think that if it 597 - > doesn't get perceived how we hope it would, we've lost, lost.

598 - > Oh, i know This horrible, horrible thing when, when it is 599 - > at the playground, the growth is into practice. 600 - > Yeah, fail and learn. 601 - > That is the reward, that is life, that is how people get to 602 - > the top. 603 - > They don't get there by winning at everything and never 604 - > learning from growth and never learning from failure.

605 - > Patrick Kagan: No, my greatest teacher of that was when I 606 - > coached my daughter in basketball. 607 - > you know, eighth grade girls are really strong, really 608 - > athletic, really good. 609 - > And I've coached her and her group since they were like five 610 - > years old, all the way up through high school. 611 - > And I remember you know you could see that as she was the 612 - > best for a while.

613 - > and then you get to middle school and she's the best for 614 - > school but not the best in the league. 615 - > And then you get to high school and she's at the bottom part 616 - > and there's others, you know, and so that's just a natural 617 - > progression of sports. 618 - > But I remember saying you know, when you talk to my coach, i 619 - > said no, i absolutely will never talk to your coach, because all 620 - > they're going to hear is I want you to play more time.

621 - > That's not what I want. 622 - > I want you to enjoy the game. 623 - > But let me ask you, what are you doing different to get 624 - > better? 625 - > And she'd be like, well, i mean , you know, i go to the morning 626 - > practices, i go to the evening practices.

627 - > I'm like, okay, everybody does that. 628 - > What are you doing different? 629 - > And if you want, if you truly want to get better, if you want 630 - > to start more games, if you want to play more time. 631 - > don't ask me to talk to your coach And don't you talk to your 632 - > coach.

633 - > show your coach, demonstrate, and they'll never see you doing 634 - > the extras. 635 - > But if everybody else is practicing and then going home 636 - > so you've done nothing, how can you expect to get more time? 637 - > And it doesn't happen from crying and complaining, it 638 - > happens from and she's like what would you do? 639 - > I'm like, well, what I would do because I'm short, i would get 640 - > better at skills they need And I would maybe spend time.

641 - > I used to say to her 10 shots from 10 spots in your driveway, 642 - > that's, can you do that? 643 - > Yeah, i can do that, but she never did Now. 644 - > I never nagged her about it because that's not what she 645 - > wanted. 646 - > Now she went on to be a fantastic biologist doing cancer 647 - > research.

648 - > That's a great contribution, but she never became a 649 - > basketball player. 650 - > So it weeds itself out. 651 - > There are people in sales who don't want to be in sales, and 652 - > so this book isn't all things to all people, but those that are 653 - > in sales. 654 - > I've been in it 30 years and they say time equals love.

655 - > I must love sales, whether I'm leading people, whether I'm just 656 - > carrying the bag myself, and so if, if I can find a way and I 657 - > can show your listeners an easier way. 658 - > jump on board because you, because this book, i tell people 659 - > you will get rich. 660 - > but it is not a get rich quick book. 661 - > You are not going to learn a catchy technique or tactic or 662 - > some manipulation that you haven't heard.

663 - > This is not about that. 664 - > Now. 665 - > this is about intrinsically proving your value to yourself 666 - > and to your client, and that's what comes to us. 667 - > Chris McCoy: Yeah, that story was just epic.

668 - > I mean, it is everywhere We speak. 669 - > Value leads, money follows Absolutely, and it's the 670 - > craziest thing with someone that a job, i'm just not getting 671 - > paid what I deserve, oh well, really, what do you deserve And 672 - > why do you believe you deserve it? 673 - > Because if you're bringing that value, oftentimes you're going 674 - > to be getting a and listen, definitely employers out there 675 - > stealing wages and cutting people down. 676 - > And, with all love, it usually is happening in the place where 677 - > people are looking for a paycheck, not looking for a 678 - > career, and looking to invest and grow Absolutely.

679 - > And so I love everything you're saying in, patrick. 680 - > It's all aligned with what we teach at NASP and our 681 - > certifications And it's the principles of becoming, it's the 682 - > principles of growing, it's the principles of staying 683 - > internally motivated and externally focused and reminding 684 - > yourself that don't take things so seriously. 685 - > Life is fun and easy and it's meant to be. 686 - > You're meant to be unique, you're meant to be different 687 - > than everyone else around you, and that's where that's a big 688 - > part of life is.

689 - > Patrick Kagan: Yeah, i mean, right now, our political and 690 - > social culture is about how we're all the same, and I 691 - > couldn't be more confused by that, because I think there is 692 - > such value in our differences and our uniqueness. 693 - > So I talk about the comparability factor versus the 694 - > differentiation or the distinguishability factors. 695 - > You wanna distinguish yourself, yet you spend time talking 696 - > about what makes you comparable.

697 - > We value ourselves down through what we say and then what we do 698 - > , and you, just you, can't do that And the whole thing has to 699 - > come down to. 700 - > I own this and I see it before I realize it. 701 - > Chris McCoy: Patrick, i love it. 702 - > man, y'all gotta get this book.

703 - > sell the difference, the ultimate guide to increasing 704 - > sales and customer satisfaction. 705 - > I love the customer focus of the whole thing. 706 - > And y'all be different, be you and trust it, trust it, trust it 707 - > , trust it. 708 - > This is what life is all about.

709 - > And listen, here's the thing, the unique. 710 - > you can sell anything. 711 - > You can move from one company to the next. 712 - > Your brand is the most important and your brand is the 713 - > one that will take those relationships with you From one 714 - > job to the next, from one career to the next, even if you're not 715 - > in sales forever.

716 - > I have relationships from different careers that have gone 717 - > from beginning to end, and it is not just about the value they 718 - > can give you. 719 - > You start with the value they can give them, or that you can 720 - > give them, and you'll always be happy. 721 - > Patrick, listen, all right, get the book. 722 - > Don't forget to use the promo code McCoy.

723 - > Patrick Kagan: McCoy. 724 - > Yeah, the only place you can get the book is at our website, 725 - > pksolutionsgroupcom, and when you go through the checkout it's 726 - > at the point of purchase And as a promo code put in McCoy, you 727 - > get another 10% off. 728 - > So go to pksolutionsgroupcom And I will guarantee this will 729 - > be something you will carry with you, you will annotate, you 730 - > will use this and it will absolutely co-elevate you, your 731 - > peers and your customers.

732 - > Chris McCoy: Mine's on its way. 733 - > y'all get yours now. 734 - > All right, that's another amazing podcast. 735 - > Patrick, thank you so much for all the value you gave the 736 - > audience here.

737 - > We'll definitely have to have you, and when we move over to 738 - > Music Hill Studios live from Music Hill man you have to come 739 - > down and join us here. 740 - > Get out of that Well, tago in January probably, i know I will, 741 - > that's the perfect place to be. 742 - > All right, y'all, we know what to do. 743 - > Go ahead down there and leave all those stars like, comment 744 - > and share the video and get the book And also tune in next week 745 - > to the next episode of Leads to Grow.

746 - > We're the National Association of Sales Professionals, take 747 - > care y'all. 748 - > Thanks Patrick, thanks Chris.