Program for Emerging & Transitioning Leaders - with Dr. Nancy Scott

Speaker A: You're listening to the Leadership Upside Podcast. I'm your host, Chuck Carringer. On this podcast, we discuss what successful leaders are doing, saying and thinking. Now let's dive in. Our guest today is Dr. Nancy Scott. Nancy is the Leadership Development Program Director at the University of Tennessee Haslam College of Business. Dr. Scott recently created a non degree program, the Emerging Leaders Program for new and transitioning leaders. In addition, Dr. Scott is an expert in numerous leadership and professional skills related assessments. Dr. Scott, welcome to Leadership Upside.

Speaker B: Hey Chuck. I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker A: Well, it's great to have you on the show. Nancy, start us off with. Before we get into discussing your work, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, let's see, my friend. I'm a Texan. That probably says it all. Um, but no, uh, I grew up in Plano, Texas where I played a bunch of softball. It was my entire life. And this is actually going to be really relevant even to the program, uh, the Emerging Leader program, because I struggled as an athlete with some of the things I think leaders do. But my softball story ended after my third knee surgery. Um, and I really grappled with what was I going to do? Um, I change, ended up changing my college major multiple times. I, uh, you know, got my first real job that wasn't on a field and really kind of didn't have an identity of who I was off the field. Um, that struck. I struggled finding my first job after college because the only thing I knew about myself was that I didn't want to sit behind a desk. I still had that spirit. Just not good enough knees to go fast anymore, you know. Um, and that though, that openness got me to where I tried different things. I, you know, did some web design practice, got experience in business development in that industry, went into health and fitness to capitalize on my passion for, for sports. And, um, that ended up, uh, ending when I broke my back in a car accident and I got fired in a hospital bed. Chuck, I might be the only person I know they can say that. And, um, but getting fired in that hospital bed, it changed my entire life. I would not be with UT today if, if I didn't break my back at 25 years old. Um, because I had to realize in that moment, you know, I had to invest as much in my mind as, as I had invested in softball. And that light bulb went off, I went back and I got my mba, which was a wicked investment of my time, um, and something that was really hard for me to balance. But it changed my Life. Because I took a class by this um, by Michael Hargis man, uh, at University of Central Arkansas. And he just, he, he, he gave me a passion, um, for what ended up being I.O. psychology. Uh, I took his leadership course. He's like, hey, you need to go study IO psych. I took his advice and that's how I got to UT the first time. Um, I came here to get my PhD in I.O. our program shut down. I stayed coarse though, um, and event, uh, got through it um, and moved on to Boston. Used my degree to help Wheaton College start a business program. And in the first couple of years after doing that it was the largest major on campus. And UT came calling and that's how I got back. Um, because um, this role as Leadership Development Programs Director, it opened in 2017 and hence where I am and lucky to meet folks like you, Chuck.

Speaker A: Well, Nancy, thank you and what a great journey and thanks for sharing that uh, there were, even though I've known you for a few years, there were pieces of that that I didn't know, uh, I don't know that I ever knew, um, or recalled your passion for sport, especially softball, and the impact that had. And one thing that you mentioned, uh, you spoke of Michael Hargis, um, and the impact um, he had on you. And just for a moment I want to highlight the impact as leaders, um, we have the potential to have on those around us every day and often in ways that may not always be obvious to us in that moment, but we have the privilege to impact people's life journey and their professional endeavors, uh, just because we might make an investment in them or the passion we go about our work. So thanks for sharing that uh, your journey and especially that part about uh, Dr. Hargis. Let's um, let's talk for a minute about the non degree program. But before we jump into um, how the program uh, is put together and all the different components which I'm super excited about, let's get a couple of definitions out of the way so that today we're all speaking the same language. We're using terms emerging leader and transitioning leader. Let's start with emerging leader. What is an emerging leader?

Speaker B: Oh, awesome question, Chuck. Um, in my view an emerging leader is going to be a uh, high achieving, high potential professional. They've got influence. But here's the thing my friend, they don't necessarily have the title right. There are going to be often early career professionals that though people look to for leadership, these are folks that are emerging or likely to step into their first real leadership role. So the skills that our program is designed to tap are going to be critical for them as they enter that first leadership role.

Speaker A: Nancy, before you discuss transitioning leaders, which may be a little bit more straightforward, let's pause for a minute on emerging leaders. Um, and I know you're very invested in the research of leadership and the research of organizational, ah, effectiveness and all that goes with that. I know in addition to being a phenomenal instructor yourself, you're a student. Um, is there any research or are you seeing, um, anything in your own work where you might, um, you draw any conclusions? Are there as many early career professionals today as perhaps a decade ago or two decades ago or three decades ago who aspire to organizational leadership? Do we see anything, any trends? Um, are there as many people who want to be organizational leaders as there used to be?

Speaker B: Chuck, you want to know what, my friend? My answer is yes, there are, right? I mean, and there's research. And then I'd say the anecdotal evidence, you know, part of my role, why it was my dream job, why I wanted to come back for this, was because I work with executives. I work with, um, you know, professional MBAs, but I also get the opportunity to work with undergraduates. And those are the folks that are about to enter the job market. They will be emerging leaders five years down the road from when they meet me. Um, and I tell you what, through research and through that experience, I would say yes, just as many people want to emerge as leaders, right? I think there's some, uh, lack of clarity around perhaps, you know, where we can emerge as leaders because it doesn't always have to and shouldn't just be related to a position. But absolutely, I think we need to make our. Everybody's pie. We want the organization's pie. We want to grow these pie so more and more people can step up and emerge.

Speaker A: Nancy, to go along with that. Of, um, course, in my work as a, ah, as an executive coach and a trainer, most, uh, often in the leadership space, um, I'm seeing a, ah, similar um, trend as you. Yesterday I was in a room full of early career professionals and there was an energy and an excitement and a passion to learn. The topic of leadership was one that was, was that resonated with them. And there were, even after the, the training session had concluded, as I was visiting with people in that room, there was a, uh, you know, an obvious interest in leadership, uh, and becoming an effective leader and to, to go along with the opportunities this course presents. I'm Seeing, um, companies, uh, especially progressive companies who are thinking about the future, who are investing and want to invest in their next generation, uh, their next, uh, the leaders that, that are the potential leaders that may already be in their organization and they want to, to help them prepare for future roles. So um, I think the timing is incredible for this course to be offered, uh, especially as we're both in the Knoxville market. Obviously it will attract people from all over to come to the University of Tennessee, um, for uh, this new course. Let's define transitioning leader. What is that?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I think you're right that it is a bit simpler of a definition, um, when I say transitioning leader and how this program is meant to help them. Transitioning leader, they're stepping into the role of leadership and, and very much potentially stepping into their second leadership role. Right. Whereas the emerging might be stepping into the first. We are in the midst of um, and I don't want to give too much of our secret sauce away, but um, we're in the midst of really designing comprehensive offerings that could support organizations and can support leaders, um, through the transition at every level. M. And so why that ends up being important, you know, we're in the, we're creating a strategic leadership non degree program, not just executive mba and that would be meant to help leaders who are really transitioning to the top of the food chain. Um, and so this program is meant to help leaders that are transitioning up to the middle of it, if that makes sense.

Speaker A: It makes complete sense. And my own work, I would say you're hitting in these two areas, emerging leaders and transitioning leaders. Whatever that transition looks like, whether it be up in an organization or into a new organization, emerging, um, perhaps stepping into their, their first formal leadership role or just strengthening their influence and preparing for leadership down the road.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I love that, Chuck. That's perfect.

Speaker A: These are two of the most crucial times, I think in a, In a uh, leader's um, journey. As you think about what are the periods in time or the, the moments where uh, we could really benefit from an additional, uh, uh level of preparedness. These are two of the most essential times.

Speaker B: I wholeheartedly agree.

Speaker A: Okay. All right, awesome. Let's talk about the course. So, so, um, there are, um, obviously unique challenges that, that come, um, during these periods, as we've said. Tell us about the course, uh, Nancy, and really unpack what uh, the course looks like and why, um, it has the potential to be so impactful.

Speaker B: Well, you know, Chuck, you mentioned that those unique challenges and they do have some. And so when I designed this course, I really wanted to factor those in thinking of my softball story, right. That struggle with identity. Um, as you're stepping into your first time leadership role or transitioning into a new role, there are identity issues. Trying to figure out who you are, how you're going to engage and become a successful in that role. There's tons of ambiguity, you know, in both of those contexts. You've got to be able to read the, the, the environment, understand the politics, understand the people and do that rather adeptly, um, so that you get more successful more quickly. Um, and so the program is really meant to help folks deal with that AMB. Ambiguity while developing their leadership identity. Um, and this we help develop their identity, deal with ambiguity, both through helping enhance their self awareness. Sorry, My dog Brody loves the program. Um, uh, but we want to enhance their self awareness. Um, and at the same time we want to make sure we're building the baseline of skills that are going to be foundational to help them be successful in these new roles. And so I would say this, this program is relevant to the challenges that they're facing. It is practical because we built on principles of adult learning. It's practical because we're looking at getting folks to only take two days off two times a year. Right. Um, I know there's a weekend investment, but ideally they're minimizing time off from work, they're practicing skills, they're reflecting on it, they're growing their self awareness. And none of this is done alone. Right. And I'm not just talking to faculty experts. Right. I'm talking, um, in this program, each participant given, they, they want to enroll in the whole program. And I'll talk details in a minute. But if they want to enroll in the whole program, they also get the support of a professional leadership coach. Right. Someone like you. Um, and to me, I think that might even be the biggest value add of the program because it's very likely that these folks at this point in their career haven't had an investment like that into their leadership. Um, and so they get the support of a coach to help them understand and unpack what emerges from the feedback that they get. Um, what does that mean for the goals that they're going to set and work over the next quarter? You know, the coach can help them understand and connect some of the curriculum and how that connects to the world that they're facing. Um, so it's a highly supportive program, it's highly personalized and it's absolutely practical to the Demands that real leaders face. Um, so that kind of gives an overview. Chuck, before I just get into the nitty gritty. Does that spur any, any questions before I get.

Speaker A: Uh, it does, yes. Thanks. So, so just, uh, getting kind of the parameters of the program. It is how long from start to finish? Uh, would, would, um, someone who's in the program expect to, uh, be investing their time?

Speaker B: That's a great question, Chuck. So I'm going to say ideally, because the way that I've designed it is also incredibly customizable. It's designed with two different modules three months apart. Um, a participant does not actually have to enroll in both modules. They might read the content and they're like, you want to know what? Based on what I'm facing, I really need the stuff delivered in the first four days. Someone else looks at it and says, I need the stuff in the second four days. Ideally, someone looks at it and said, holy baloney, I need all of this. So they sign up for both module one and module two. In the case they sign up for module one and module two as an eight day time investment. Four of them weekend days, four of them weekdays. Eight day. Uh, so four days and four days, three months apart. Um, I'm not really going to call this a time investment. I consider this one a return. But they've got the investment of time in between those blocks and a time block at a session after the second block to, um, with their leadership coach.

Speaker A: Okay, cool.

Speaker B: And so some investment in coaching, time, curriculum, time, and the time I'm definitely not counting is what I hope these folks do is when we learn something in the classroom like how to give better feedback or how to coach our people. There is what I hope is going to be the time investment in them practicing these skills in their world.

Speaker A: Nancy, I mentioned to you off the air that I had the privilege. I happen to be at the East Tennessee Economic Council meeting recently, uh, and I heard your colleague Dr. Jonathan Harvey, uh, discuss this, um, program a bit. And I was blown away at the quality, uh, of the program, but also the topics that would be addressed within the curriculum. Can you expound on that just a little bit? Some of the topics that, that uh, the intent is to cover, uh, during the course.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, and I'll kind of COVID this one, Chuck. I'll cover it in order. Right, so I'll start with what would be module one. Um, module one for this run kicks off in December, mid December 2022. Um, that first day of that program is all about leading yourself right um really intended to help them develop the awareness of their leadership identity of their strengths, of their weaknesses or development areas of their blind spots. Right. We're going to use some key tools to help them do this. Hence why coaching with folks like you is critical because the participants are going to get a 360 facilitated for them. The participants are going to get some personality and strengths assessment assessments facilitated. So they've got multiple um, snapshots of perhaps who they are as the person and as a leader. They get the support of a coach to figure out who they want to be and how their feedback's going to translate into a development plan. So day one is really going to help them unpack that feedback. So yes, that does mean there's some pre work. Um, when folks sign up for the program here in the fall, uh, they'll get an email from me and I'm going to say hey, here's the of tasks you've got to do. So you're really prepared for day one. Um, and then uh, day two we kind of begin to make that transition from self awareness to getting effective leading in one on one relationships. These are already folks who are, who, who have influence. Right now they're about to get a title with it. So day two is going to help them figure out what's the best uh, leadership style for your context, for your people. We're going to cover some great theories but we're going to put to practice, you know, really learning the nuances of, of, of when do you change, why do you change, how do you adapt while still maintaining authenticity to who you want to be as a leader. Right. We're going to unpack power and influence so they get really comfortable with their new roles as well as their leadership style.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Um, yeah, me too man. It's getting me excited just talking about I can't, I'm stoked for December. Like I can't wait to do this stuff in the classroom with folks. Um, and December, day three, we're moving beyond just um, building high quality one on one relationships with our team. But day three, we move to the collective and really how do we develop, um, compose and promote high performing teams. So we're going to cover, you know, what do you need to know the theories that help provide a good backbone for as you compose teams, as you're on new teams, you know, how do teams develop? There's a structure turns out there' you know, a fairly structured phase. All leaders need to know this so that they know what behaviors will make you more effective in Each stage and so that ultimately they use this for awareness to figure out where their teams are and how to move them forward towards higher levels of performance. We're going to practice tools, you know, use after action reviews. Think about using personality as a means for team composition, not just skills. Uh, so go really deeply into helping our folks make teams that are going to be effective. Um, and then day four of the first module, it concludes with moving beyond just uh, leading teams, but preparing folks for that role. Leading larger teams, leading their departments, leading what one day we hope could be organizations. And so that fourth day is really around making good leadership decisions. Right? They're going to be making decisions they've got to be accountable to. They've got to be making decisions that need to align with their organization strategy. They've got, they're going to be making decisions in their new role, um, where they've got to be able to understand the consequences and the outcomes. So day four is about uh, you know, learning good decision making models. How do you make good leadership decisions? What does that process look like? How do you get buy in behind those decisions? How do you reduce, um, buy in, in that decision making process? Um, and so that day four really begins to focus on the strategic and decision making, um, strategic thinking and decision making that they're going to need to build to be successful. So that's module one. Yeah.

Speaker A: That was incredible. That was uh, just module one and there's an entire second module as well. So.

Speaker B: Yeah, there's a whole second module. Who'da thunk it?

Speaker A: Yeah. Can you give us just some highlights of module two?

Speaker B: Absolutely. So module two should kick off in the spring and March. Um, and it starts with, you know, the, the fundamental concept. Chuck and I know you're going to be on board with this, but the idea that leaders are coaches.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: This module really helps set people up for um, motivating performance. Right. For developing others. So day one is leader as coach. We're going to go deep. I hope you join me that day, my friend. And we go deep talking about, you know, what does coaching look like? How do you um, develop more of a coaching style? We're going to review coaching models, practice coaching conversations so that folks get comfortable knowing that coaching should be and is a part of the skill set they're developing. Um, and I personally think coaching is going to be a skill set as the workforce changes as you go. The question you asked me about the number of emerging leaders that actually gives, I mean I think coaching is critical. It is, it is a skill set for leadership today. And I don't think it's going away. So I think day one is critical for the types of styles we need, um, leaders using in the future. Day two is connected to that. Um, day two goes deeper, but it goes outside of coaching to really focus on how do we sustain that performance. You know, Chuck, uh, leaders that I've worked with, they struggle, um, with, you know, giving negative feedback, with outlining performance expectations, with holding people accountable to those expectations. So day two really helps folks get prepared to do that. Strategies to retain, to engage, to develop. Day two should set our people up for being prepared for performance appraisal appraisals, the formal ones, but more so being prepared for those informal performance appraisal so they can make development a habit as part of their leadership approach. Um, day three, we begin to make a transition. As we think larger, um, and as folks, careers are going to evolve, we have got to be, we've got to be adept as leaders at leveraging diversity.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Um, I think Covid, all of us can think of an instance of how Covid has really widened, broadened our perspective and we've got to be prepared for that in our leadership role. So day three, um, by the end of day three, we want folks really understanding how to leverage and capitalize on diversity. And I'm talking, my friend, the diversity of stuff you can't see the diversity of experience, the diversity of thinking styles, the deferred diversity in how we make decision, diversity of personality. And so we're going to go deep that day on, on the challenges that a leader might experience, but ultimately the tools and mindse that we need to effectively leverage the differences that we're going to encounter.

Speaker A: Fantastic.

Speaker B: Thanks my friend. And uh, and day four, I hope it gets us equally excited. Day four is also a day really meant to help prepare them not for just the role they're stepping into, but also that next transition. This whole program ends with, uh, with, with a day on strategy.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Both how to develop strategy so they can make more strategic contributions to organizations, but also how to implement the strategy. We know that they're not making all of it that gets fed to them. So we want to make sure they understand strategy can think strategically, but can also be effective at implementing strategy.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Um, and so we'll do some cool things in the room looking at how strategic decisions are made, um, and, and how they're implemented through the eyes of, of powerful organizational examples and cases.

Speaker A: Nancy, Both modules have such a beautiful flow to them. I know they're highly customizable and, and that's exciting as well. But just as you laid them out, uh, module one and the progression there very uh, um, self, uh, focused and about the individual leader as they grow in their own style and becoming the leader that they're really wired to be and how to be successful and be very authentic at the same time. And uh, module two is just so compelling in the topics that you're addressing, uh, in a setting where it really provides a learning opportunity. Um, I think this uh, program has incredible potential, um, for emerging and transitioning uh, leaders. Um, as we uh, get uh, close to our time, I want to ask just a couple of questions and then provide people a way to contact you to get more information, uh, about the uh, program that we've discussed today. Anything else that, that we need to say about the course before we move forward?

Speaker B: Uh, Chuck? I don't think so. I'm like you. If anybody's interest is tickled, please don't hesitate to reach out. I'd love to talk to folks one on one. I know Jonathan Will would as well. Um, so just really, if it drums up any interest in anybody, please don't hesitate. We're happy to talk through it.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I would even encourage uh, people who might be listening to this and perhaps they're at a different phase in their career, but you know, someone who's an emerging or transitioning leader. Um, uh, please make them aware of this course and draw uh, their attention to this podcast. That's a great overview, uh, of the course, uh, a great place for, for people to get some information. And so let me ask you a quick question. You, you've worked with hundreds, maybe thousands of leaders in a variety of different settings as, as um, you've interacted with them. If I limited you to a handful, what do you see, um, in the most highly effective leaders? What, what are the separators? And, and I, I don't want you to name 10, I want you just to name a handful. What are the separators that you consistently see in the highest performing leaders?

Speaker B: Oh Chuck, that is such a spider web type question.

Speaker A: Thank you. I stay up at night thinking of these spider web type questions.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, you've drawn me in. You know, if I really, really think about that, um, it gets me to think about leaders that I admire, admire that. Not that it's not just that they're exceptionally, that they're effective, but the ones that really draw me and get my attention that are separated a different class, those are going to be the leaders that I have experienced that they lead with absolute purpose. Right. Um, I don't want to say names, but just last week I was traveling with our strategic leadership class at Latin, uh, South America, and one of the leaders was talking to me about his purpose and his leadership role was to feed the world. I left that conversation, Chuck, with my arm hair standing up. That's my tell when someone really gets me excited. And I'm, I'm just in awe. Um, other leaders and you know, and maybe it's not feed the world work for his industry, his role, um, but the leaders that across wherever they are, whatever their company's doing, they seem to understand the greater impact. It's not just impact measured by financial dollars because I've seen that, that purpose that they have, um, that big vision and mission, I've seen that their ability to inspire others behind that. So these folks are creating cultures and people that think the same way. Um, and so those would be the folks that I absolutely consider exceptional because it goes beyond just the day to day transactional leadership. They are, they are visionary, purpose oriented.

Speaker A: Nancy, that was incredible and I think a challenge to all of us, um, as we reflect for a moment on are we the type of leader that others would be inspired by, would admire, uh, regard, would admire. Regardless of the um, um, industry or the forum we're leading in, uh, there's a nobility to, um, uh, the purpose of what we're doing professionally. There can be a nobility to that. And I love what you said about really the people who stand out to you are not just the highly effective, but it's those that you would admire for the way they're going about their work and the work they're doing. That was awesome. Thank you for sharing that, Nancy. Anything else, uh, before we close out today?

Speaker B: Um, no. Y' all just. I, ah, want to thank everybody who's listening. I want to thank you, Chuck. You know, um, you mentioned, mentioned, you know, this challenge that for us to all be leaders that, that we admire. And you know, here at ut, uh, I'm honored to be in a room with my colleagues, not just because we're four I.O. psychologists. Right. Um, but because we think really similarly on how our impact is really measured. Our version of Feed the World, you know, and, and our impact is measured by the impact that the leaders that we support that, the impact they make in the, on their families, on their organ, on their communities. So I would just really encourage folks the way you did, Chuck, and thank you for it. Maybe this program isn't for you, but maybe you know someone it might be for. I would love for you and be eternally grateful if folks would spread the word and help us at UT get closer to, to achieving our impact, you know, by having a greater spread. Um, so thanks, thanks, Chuck, I mean, for giving me the opportunity to talk about our new, new offerings and for being a part of it in advance.

Speaker A: Nancy, this has been great. Thank you so much. Uh, thanks for listening to this episode of Leadership Upside, where we discuss what successful business leaders in diverse organizations are doing, saying and thinking today. Our guest has been Dr. Nancy Scott. If you'd like additional information on this new non degree course, the Emerging Leaders Program for new and new or transitioning leaders at the University of Tennessee Haslam, um, College of Business, you can contact Dr. Scott. Nancy, check this email, make sure I get it right at N. Scott. And the number five at UTK Edu. I'll say that again, N. Scott. And the number five, TK Edu. Until next time on Leadership Upside, I'm Chuck Cairn. Thanks for listening.

Speaker B: Thanks for joining us today. Head over to chuckkerringer.com for more information.