Kitchen Curiosity · 2026-10-30 · 49 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
39 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Oktoberfest represents an extreme test case for commercial dishwashing equipment - 6.5 million visitors, seven million litres of beer, and relentless glass and plate washing from 7am to midnight across 14 large tents and 20 smaller ones. DIHR, an Italian manufacturer part of ALI Group, has supplied machines to this event for nearly 30 years through partnership with Hackel GmbH, a German distributor. Giovanni Bianco explains DIHR's philosophy: robust machines built like tanks, not formula cars, emphasising simplicity and reliability over unnecessary technology. The company manufactures stainless steel components in-house, controlling quality from sheet metal to finished product. Andreas Krug describes the operational reality - deploying approximately 50-60 machines across tents, with 10 technicians working two shifts (6am-10pm) during the festival. Machines can wash 3000 plates or 2000 one-litre glasses per hour. The key insight: manufacturers learn more from field operations than from offices, with continuous feedback driving design improvements. DIHR discovered that avoiding over-engineering - choosing robust LCD displays over sensitive touchscreens, keeping service access simple - matters more than adding features for heavy-duty, 18-hour continuous operations.
Hosted by Sound Rebel. The show scores 60.5/100 on substance across its analysed episodes. See the full show profile.
DIHR deploys approximately 50-60 machines total across the festival, including around 10 large tunnel machines for dishes and multiple glass-washing machines (typically 4-6 per tent). With 14 large tents and 20 smaller ones, this scales to handle 2000 glasses and 3000 plates per hour.
Machines are collected, cleaned, serviced, and stored in the warehouse, then redeployed to other major European festivals and events (regional beer festivals, World Cups, Olympics) through a rental business model operated by Hackel GmbH.
The response window is 10-15 minutes maximum. DIHR stations 10 technicians on-site working two shifts (6am-10pm) with radio communication; if a machine fails, technicians can either perform quick fixes, swap in backup machines, or order replacement parts while maintaining festival operations.
Field experience showed that heavy-duty, 18-hour continuous operations benefit more from simplicity and reliability than advanced features; for example, robust LCD displays outperform sensitive touchscreens, and easy access to pumps and rinse machines matters more than complex controls.
The Sinner Circle identifies four key factors: mechanical action, chemistry, temperature, and time. However, real-world application at scale requires combining engineering, manufacturing expertise, organisation, and continuous field feedback from customers and operators.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode surfaces a handful of genuinely operational details - 10 on-site technicians in two shifts, 15-minute maximum response window, stainless-steel grades 304/316, EN17735 hygiene norm requiring 99.9999% bacterial reduction - but large stretches are pleasantries, filler, and vague manufacturer generalities. The insight-per-minute rate is low for a 49-minute runtime.
the structural strength of our tunnel washers is such that units several meters long can often be transported and installed in a single piece
the new leading norm in Europe is the EN17735 in force starting from July 2022
The Oktoberfest-as-stress-test framing is a mildly interesting angle, but every conclusion reached - listen to customers, keep it simple, trust is essential - is entirely generic. The 'Sinner Circle' is a standard industry model, and no contrarian or first-principles argument appears anywhere in the episode.
innovation should never start in the office. It should start by listening to customers and operators
listening is probably the most underrated skill in manufacturing
Andreas brings 20-plus years of direct Oktoberfest operational experience, which is genuinely relevant, and Giovanni has managed export sales across 60-plus countries for eight years; both are real practitioners. However, neither is an engineering lead, founder, or C-suite operator, and both speak primarily from a commercial/sales perspective rather than deep technical authority.
I comes from engineering, planning and project management and work site more of 20 years for deer
I have the privilege of leading sales activities across more than 60 countries
The episode provides more concrete figures than an average branded podcast - machine throughput, team headcount, response time, steel grades, a specific regulatory standard with a quantified hygiene threshold - but these are interspersed with vague claims and marketing language, and no financial data, cost comparisons, or failure rates are offered.
one machine makes two piece. 3,000 glasses per hour
standard 304 in the external construction and 316 in tanks and boilers
The host repeatedly labels questions 'brilliant' and 'beautiful' before the guest answers, never challenges a claim, and closes with a promotional quickfire round. Follow-ups exist but are confirmatory rather than probing; the interview functions more as a brand showcase than a substantive interrogation of the guests' expertise.
Another brilliant question
All beautiful questions, Redford. All beautiful questions
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Kitchen Curiosity is a podcast for the foodservice market presented by Radford Chancellor of Macintosh Foodservice Consultants, a foodservice design consultancy for the hospitality sector. Radford is joined by Giovanni Bianco and Andreas Krug to discuss the engineering, training and technical teamwork required to keep glasses, plates and cookware moving through the world’s largest folk festival, Oktoberfest. During this series you will be hearing from the some of the industries top chefs, consultancy leaders, trade association board members, equipment suppliers and manufacturers. We'll be discussing everything from menu planning to business planning, from equipment to cocktails. Hit
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Hello, welcome to Kitchen Curiosity, the podcast where we delve into people, products, ideas shaping the food service equipment and professional kitchens. And today I'm in Venice again in Italy, and I'm actually at the Deer factory. We're in there, what I would probably say is like their training showroom. We're bringing you a slightly different story today because when the ware washing stops, the beer stops. And at Munich's Oktoberfest, that's not a throwaway line. We're talking about over six and a half million visitors, seven million litres of beer, 14 large tents and 20 smaller ones over 16 days. Behind the Music, the Food 1 litre steins and the temporary hospitality operation working at extraordinary scale, are, uh, individual machines that can wash up to 2000 one litre glasses an hour. And while the dishwashing operation may have to also handle 3,000 plates an hour, the equipment runs almost continuously, relentlessly, from seven in the morning till midnight. And at the 191st Oktoberfest ran this year, the 19th of September till the 4th of October in Munich. So by the time you hear this episode, the tents have closed, the equipment's packed away and they're starting to plan for next year. This edition of Kitchen Curiosity is produced in partnership with ALI Group. And today we're behind the scenes at, uh, dia, huh? And my first guest is Giovanni Bianco. He's the area export manager for Deer. Giovanni brings the manufacturer's view of how machines are designed, how it copes with this level of demand and the experience that improves the product and the relationship between the Bavarian equipment specialist, uh, that goes back nearly 30 years. Joining him we also have Andrea Krug, who's Deere's local manager for Bavaria. He also looks after Austria and Switzerland and half of Germany. Andrea is directly involved in Oktoberfest operation and we're going to hear from him about how they deal with that, the level of service, the expectation from the client and, um, and yeah, the, just the sheer scale of, of that operation. So enough of me going on, let, let's get on and introduce the guests. Giovanni, how are you?
Speaker B: I'm fine, I'm fine. Radford. Thank you
Speaker A: so much, Curiosity. And thank you for hosting us.
Speaker B: Thank you so much. You're so welcome. Um, thank you for coming all over the way from, From London.
Speaker A: No, no problem at all. So just before we get into Deer Oktoberfest etc, just tell me a little bit about yourself because we're actually recording in Castle Franco, where Deer was founded. It's also your birth town.
Speaker B: It Is it is.
Speaker A: So, uh, I believe you weren't in food service equipment originally. You were in banking or something before.
Speaker B: Exactly.
Speaker A: Tell us a little bit about.
Speaker B: I was
Speaker A: about you and your career.
Speaker B: So I had, I would say an unconventional, uh, path. So first of all, I am father of two. I have a partner. I studied, um, accounting with a specialization in um, information technology. And then beside a bachelor in music. Very coherent. And then Spanish came naturally, thanks to my mother, who was born in the central part of America in Honduras. Then German from living in Germany for several years. And English was learned on the way. So after spending several years in the banking sector, I decided it was time for a change and joined, uh, Deere, part of Ali group. So fast forward eight years and uh, now, uh, I have the privilege of leading sales activities across more than 60 countries and working with an incredible network of colleagues, distributors and partners worldwide.
Speaker A: Quite an achievement really.
Speaker B: It is, it
Speaker A: is. Ah,
Speaker B: it is.
Speaker A: And you clearly enjoy your job.
Speaker B: I do,
Speaker A: I do. I've seen you always smiling and happy, so that's a positive story. And so Deere was founded in 1985.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: And it now produces over 20,000 machines to over 120 countries. Countries which range from under counter to rack machines to flight systems, pot washers. For the listeners that don't know the name.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: Where you know what sits at the heart of Deere today? Maybe just give us a bit of overview of the business.
Speaker B: That's a brilliant question. So I would say our ability to combine, uh, industrial excellence with, uh, innovation.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: We have a stainless steel working area, very advanced, with an automatic warehouse for the stainless steel sheets, laser cutting machines, bending machines, uh, welding machines. That part is what I like to call the factory. In the factory. And that there are not many companies in
Speaker A: our making the components here.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: As opposed to buying them in.
Speaker B: Exactly.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So we do the stainless steel working in house.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: And we can literally say that we control the process from A to Z. So from the stainless steel sheet to the carton box.
Speaker A: Yeah. Which is quite unique because some companies are more kind of final assembly possibly.
Speaker B: Exactly.
Speaker A: Rather than actually core manufacturing.
Speaker B: Exactly.
Speaker A: The one thing that shocked me when I was walking around the factory floor was the level of female staff.
Speaker B: That's right.
Speaker A: You have.
Speaker B: That's right.
Speaker A: Is that exceptional or is that normal or. I don't know.
Speaker B: That's a good question. So I think that in, uh, in our factory, the, the operation in the production is not that heavy as it could be in some industries, in some factories. So, um, it's pretty feasible for a lady. Uh, and at the same time the working time can match with life. Yeah,
Speaker A: that's, that's a, that's a positive thing. So obviously today we're going to talk about Oktoberfest. I mean, last year we did an episode on Deer and we got, we got into quite a lot of detail about Deer as a manufacturer and part of the ALI group. When you were Oktoberfest, uh, you know, a couple of weeks ago, and you arrive there, can you sit down and enjoy a beer? Or do you just see those machines working flat out and think, I hope everything's okay? I mean, what's that like?
Speaker B: That's another beautiful question. I would say both.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So watching the operation. So watching the operation while enjoying a good German beer.
Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So the relationship between deer and Hubert GmbH is approaching what, 30 years now? I think. Um, so it's a long partnership. I mean, almost as old as Deer itself. Why do you think that relationship has lasted and why is it enduring?
Speaker B: So all beautiful questions, Redford. All beautiful questions. I think that it lasted because first of all, we are literally partnering,
Speaker A: okay.
Speaker B: And we, we listen to, to the needs and we translate the needs into engineering. Then we engineer, manufacture the machines. And so it's like a two ways.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Real, real close partnership between you manufacturer and then the distributor.
Speaker B: Yeah,
Speaker A: partner. Partner. So Hubert Hackel, uh, wonderfully described it. So he's the founder of Hackel in Germany, the partner for Oktoberfest. And he said, we don't need a dishwasher that's designed like a formula car. We need to design like a tank built to kind of last. So, you know, what he needed was he wanted simplicity of service, easy access the pumps, easy access to the rinse machines and a machine that can work basically 18 hours a day. I mean, is that a fair assessment? Is that how you'd say your machines are or, you know, because that's a big, you know, for an Italian m manufacturer to be supplying what is one of Germany's biggest festivals is quite an achievement.
Speaker B: It is, it is. And it's something we are, uh, really proud of. So first of all, um, yeah, as you said, the robustness and reliability of uh, the machines. We are talking about equipment built to last from under counter dishwashers to rack and fly type machines. Then there is, um, ease of use. Even the most advanced technology only creates value if it is simple and uh, intuitive for operators, we think.
Speaker A: And uh, as a manufacturer, is there things that you've learned from Oktoberfest.
Speaker B: Yes, of course. I would say that, you know, the structural strength of our tunnel washers is such that units several meters long can often be transported and installed in a single piece, avoiding the time consuming and the complex process of splitting and reassembling the machine on site.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So we had the confirmation that actually our product is really robust.
Speaker A: Uh,
Speaker B: more robust than we thought. But then engineering is a complex process. R and D. And so what we really understood, I think is that we, we should not over engineer our machines.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: To keep it simple.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Somehow it could be more complicated than an over engineering something.
Speaker A: M
Speaker B: so to really understand which are the few characteristics that we should like keep or what may seem. I'm just saying old fashioned is actually reliable and we don't necessarily need to put the latest touchscreen because maybe it's more sensitive and for heavy duty operation we should go for maybe an uh, LCD display which is more robust, for instance.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we
Speaker B: understood that the operation really, really changes the features of the machine.
Speaker A: Okay. And um, that's kind of like your, what you do is keep machines simple, reliable, you know, easy to use, easy service.
Speaker B: Yes, exactly. We have also high specs, high tech machines when it comes to control panel. But it's for different application. Not as heavy duty as Oktoberfest for instance.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, of course. Because it's kind of relentless.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: When the machines, what do they do with the machines like uh, at uh, the end of this festival, do they just keep it and store it or
Speaker B: at the end of the festival, Hakl Guillen Beha team We basically with a forklift, lift it up, put it in a truck.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: And drive it back to the warehouse.
Speaker A: And they keep it.
Speaker B: They keep it and then use it again for other festivals.
Speaker A: Oh, okay.
Speaker B: Oktoberfest is obviously the most famous one in Germany, but there are some other, many other
Speaker A: regional,
Speaker B: regional beer festivals. And the machines will be then installed and used in the same so
Speaker A: same
Speaker B: application.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: It's like rental sort of business.
Speaker A: So you know, with a customer that's like washing so many items per hour, how do you balance between sort of capacity, hygiene, water, chemicals, heat recovery, energy use, but without sort of compromising the result? I mean, how do you work that out?
Speaker B: Another brilliant question
Speaker A: just to put you under bit of pressure.
Speaker B: It's a brilliant second question. It is a very delicate balance. Uh, the Sinner Circle is a well known model in professional ware washing that identifies the four key factors behind cleaning performance. So basically mechanical action, chemistry, temperature and time. Uh, it explains the theory quite well, but applying it in the real world, uh, requires much more. So it takes the right mix of engineering, manufacturing expertise, organization, of course, and most importantly, it requires continuous input from the field. So innovation should never start in the office. Uh, it should start by listening to customers and operators and then translating their feedback into solutions that are simple, effective and reliable.
Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, perfect. And just we close off this section of the podcast. What advice would you give to manufacturers who might be listening or exporters about the relationship between manufacturer and distributor and how you really should treat it more as a partnership than a transaction? Is there any advice you can give to anyone or what would you say,
Speaker B: Radford, in your questions? It was an escalation.
Speaker A: So
Speaker B: this
Speaker A: is
Speaker B: maybe the, uh, most brilliant question. In one word, listening.
Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. Uh,
Speaker B: in one word, um, listening is probably the most underrated skill in manufacturing. We often talk about technology, performance, um, innovation. But real progress, uh, starts with listening. Uh, listening means being able to separate valuable insights from background noise and turning feedback into action.
Speaker A: Yes. Okay, perfect. Gianni, thank you for that.
Speaker B: Thank
Speaker A: you, thank you. A short break and I'm going to go on to speak to your colleague Andreas and then invite you back.
Speaker B: Of course.
Speaker A: I'm now joined by Andreas Krug, who is the export sales manager for the region for Bavaria, South Germany, I think Switzerland and Austria, the German speaking countries. Uh, he's going to talk to us a bit about Oktoberfest. He's very kindly come all the way from Munich. His English is a lot better than my German. And we will see how we, how we get on. Andre, how are you?
Speaker C: Fine, thank you.
Speaker A: Good, good. Welcome, welcome to the show.
Speaker C: Thank you.
Speaker A: Before we start, can you talk a little bit about, about you and what you do?
Speaker C: Okay. I am born in Munich and live in the, in the south side of Munich. And I comes from engineering, planning and project management and work site more of 20 years for deer.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker C: And.
Speaker A: Oh, wow.
Speaker C: Yeah. Ah. And it's, it's a very nice job. It's very nice.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: In 50 weeks in the year, my job is my sales area in Austria, Switzerland and southern Germany. And I have known Mr. Haki to provide most of cooking equipment and dishwashers from the Oktoberfest,
Speaker A: uh,
Speaker C: all made completely live. And he's one of the largest and best customer. I support him with planing in the planing phase, um, before the Krugerfest and in the 16 days what the event is running for the service.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: She have 10 technicals permanently on the festival.
Speaker A: 10 people,
Speaker C: 10 people from
Speaker A: during the festival actually on the ground
Speaker C: begin at uh, six in the morning with ten in the evening.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: She works in two, two shifts from six in the morning to uh, ten in the evening. And so we can, we can do in the evening. All was thicker.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker C: And when, uh, the festival runs, we look only to prepare uh, the machine to run when you have, uh, when we, when we have uh, a bigger problem.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: We fix it with scotch and
Speaker A: sticky tape.
Speaker C: Yeah. And another day on the morning, we make it
Speaker A: more detailed. Okay. Because uh, you were telling me that obviously the volume of, of, of of beer and the amount of glasses that you're was only get. If a machine has a problem or breaks, you've got 10 or 15 minutes.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: To
Speaker C: the maximum
Speaker A: to be on site and fix it.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: Wow.
Speaker C: We have radio in the team. Um, when uh, the, that the customer have my phone number, he called me and then we have a problem. So I give it on the, on the team radio. Um, we have the 10 number two. The colleague say, oh, I'm in the mirror, goes on the tent and say, oh, I have this problem. I can clean it. Or uh, please help me, please bring me uh, tools or spare parts. And when the disaster is complete, we can change the machine. But it's the last, uh.
Speaker A: Oh, you have, you have some backup?
Speaker C: We have two machines, uh, on the
Speaker A: backup
Speaker C: on the area. Yeah. M.
Speaker A: Okay. How many machines do you have across the whole of the festival?
Speaker C: On the festival we have I think 10 big tunnel machines.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: For dishes? Uh,
Speaker A: yeah.
Speaker C: And for glasses. In one tent you have four, six machines
Speaker A: for glasses and there's how many tents?
Speaker C: Um, we have, uh, Zaid is one eight biggest tents. The big tents, uh, have
Speaker A: so 14 large tents, 20 smaller tents.
Speaker C: Yeah, the big tents have from 6,000 this. 10,000 people.
Speaker A: Wow. Uh, so you're talking 50, 60 machines more. Yeah. A lot. A lot,
Speaker C: yeah.
Speaker A: Uh, a heck of a lot.
Speaker C: And one machine makes two piece. 3,000 glasses per hour.
Speaker A: Per hour, yeah. Wow. Because there's no plastic, there's no paper. It's just glass or like tankers. And uh, anyone that's been to Oktoberfest knows that they drink a lot of beer. When you're planning this, what's the biggest thing? What's the biggest problem?
Speaker C: Fortunately, the major of the tents are always all years the same setup.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: So the setup is stand and the machines are in stock. So we don't have anything to do before.
Speaker A: Okay. Do you check the machines just before they go?
Speaker C: Yeah,
Speaker A: before they Go up? Yeah.
Speaker C: When comes a, ah, new tent?
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker C: Um, the planing phase is the same standard. We check uh, with uh, the peoples, the guy from the tent, we can uh, do it, make the plan, the plan for the electrical, uh, for water, uh, for oil. And when it's fixed, we order the machines. But the biggest problem is the time when the order comes is end of June.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: And then the time is very, very short
Speaker A: order machines.
Speaker C: August is uh, holiday. And we must have the machines before the holiday.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: This is.
Speaker A: And you know, because obviously Oktoberfest is a temporary festival. It's not there all year round. Is there, uh, problems with things like access or drainage or water pressure or electricity or they. Is it quite organized?
Speaker C: Um, infrastructure, uh, on the, on the area?
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker C: it's, it's, it's very nice.
Speaker A: Okay. So it makes life easier.
Speaker C: Yeah,
Speaker A: a bit easier.
Speaker C: For 20, 30 years. What's not so good with the water pressure? When the fest was running.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: Before was okay.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker C: But when all people start the machines and then goes down. But uh, in this time it's, it's not the problem.
Speaker A: It's okay. And do you get any kind of like last minute surprises or last minute panic?
Speaker C: Yeah, panic is
Speaker A: only a German way.
Speaker C: Um, the guys from the Oktoberfest is um, a big family. We talk with small peoples.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: And when we have a problem, we research the solution. And we find this solution every year.
Speaker A: And how do you train this, do you train the staff? How to use the machines? How do you train them?
Speaker C: We must, uh, train the staff.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: When we have the weeks before the festival, uh, to clean completely all glasses, all dishes. And in this time we have the chance to training the staff where uh, better you uh, make the training, uh, to less problems you have, uh, on the festival.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker C: we train the staff. And look when he works, what uh, problems he have.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: And when he works in the week before the festival, you can look every day and to say begin of the festival, the stuff is
Speaker A: okay,
Speaker C: it's rain. But the problem, the languages, it's a disaster. We have uh, peoples from Africa, from uh, Balkan, from everything.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker C: Every place of the world. And I think the same situation within the old Babylon speaker. But uh, it's okay. We make it every year.
Speaker A: Yeah, of course. What happens to the machines after the festival? Because I think Giovanni said they reuse them or you service them and then they use them again.
Speaker C: Most of the machines and uh, rent for um, Oktoberfest.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: And after the festival comes back with cleaning Check service and goes in the, in the stock, in the warehouse and prepare for the next year for the summer, for the festivals, for local, uh, festivals and big festivals in Europe. Soccer, uh, World Cup, Olympic Games.
Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. So they use. Yeah. And you, you work the whole of the Oktoberfest.
Speaker C: Only for Oktoberfest.
Speaker A: And you work.
Speaker C: Yeah, I work only for Oktoberfest. Do you
Speaker A: get time to have a beer?
Speaker C: No, I must bear.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: Um, it's, it's a good chance for me to train my technical team. Um, and look, what is, uh, the problems of the machine and can give, uh, feedback to Italy and can be more, um, know how to my customers.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's quite an operation. It's quite a major thing. Is there just, uh, as we almost end this section, is there something that would surprise people about the operation? Do you think it's the size of it or, you know, is there anything that you think is surprising or not
Speaker C: the most, the most problems? Uh, it's not the machines on, uh, the half meter before the machine.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: And when, when, when we train the people, then we don't have the prices. Yes, we have, but research, uh, solution.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: Then works.
Speaker A: Yeah. So it is just about preparation, training,
Speaker C: training
Speaker A: and support. Yeah. Okay, well, thank you so much for that. We're going to take a short break and then I'm going to ask you to come back and invite, uh, Giovanni to rejoin us. Thank you.
Speaker D: Welcome to the world of ali, the largest and most diverse food service equipment company on the planet. With over 110 brands under the Ali Group umbrella. We serve more than 150 countries worldwide. Uh, our brands are at the forefront of innovation, offering cutting edge technology and ergonomic designs that keep pace with the ever evolving market. But we're not just a global leader. We're a network of local companies working together to deliver excellence. To Learn more, visit aligroup.com.
Speaker A: And now, uh, Giovanni rejoins me and Andreas and, um, we're going to talk about the lessons learned when you're providing equipment into extreme operation. We're also going to have a little fun round of questions about Oktoberfest for people that haven't been or people who have been. It might bring back memories. Um, welcome back, both of you.
Speaker B: Thank you, Redford. Thank
Speaker A: you.
Speaker B: Good to see you again.
Speaker A: Yep. Hope you enjoyed your coffee while we were talking.
Speaker B: Oh, we did.
Speaker A: Um, so, you know, a specification sheet, it can tell you how many glasses or plates, uh, a machine needs to wash, but it can't really tell you where the system can actually cope with 18 hours of continuous washing it like an extreme operation like Oktoberfest. Gianni, for you as a manufacturer, um, what's the difference between designing for peak capacity and designing for resilience? You know, are you building resilience into your machine or. I mean, how do you do that?
Speaker B: The, I would say the construction itself, starting from the. The um, stainless steel body of the machine. Uh, so the thickness of the stainless steel, the quality of the stainless steel, which in our very case, standard 304 in the external construction and 316 in tanks and boilers.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So that's the first thing. Then the pumps and the way that we anchor like the washing arms, the rinse arms. So they are meant to be used. Yeah, continuously and in the, I would say the toughest environment. Yeah.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And Andreas, from your perspective, do you think resilience is created around maintenance or training or both or. Yeah,
Speaker C: we explain, demonstrate and. And watch and control. And a good team leader, um, has. It's very important. But still every human should know what to do.
Speaker B: So how to use the machine. And also maintenance plays a big part.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker B: it's like um, cars.
Speaker A: Yeah. So before those to all enjoying the festival itself, keeping on top of them or even when they're in a general hotel or whatever.
Speaker B: Absolutely.
Speaker A: Two Mentide. And um, you know, if we talk about like simple controls. When we heard the statement from the founder, he talked about the simplicity and the robustness of the machine. But is Oktoberfest favoring simple controls or do you think they'll move towards connectivity in the future? What's your view on that?
Speaker B: So actually we offer both options in one machine. So we combine for
Speaker A: the wider market.
Speaker B: Yes. And also for the machines that we have on Oktoberfest, we have simple control panels, but with connectivity.
Speaker A: Are they connected or not yet?
Speaker B: They are,
Speaker A: uh,
Speaker B: they are, yeah.
Speaker A: So you can see what's happening.
Speaker B: We can see all the parameters, we can see any information related to the machine in real time. And also. Aha. CCP reports like how many times the machine has been run in a day, how many, at which speed. If we're talking about a tunnel machine,
Speaker A: you're doing that for Oktoberfest?
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: Already.
Speaker B: Yeah, we do, we do.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: It's uh, something that we developed some years back.
Speaker A: Right. Yeah. I probably gives you quite good insight to troubleshoot and sort out issues ahead of.
Speaker B: Absolutely. The big advantage is that being able to see what the machine is doing from your phone or from your computer. Allows you as a technician to go on site directly with a spare part in your pocket, rather than having to go see and then eventually get back to take it and then back again.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay.
Speaker C: For the people on the machine, we have switch, uh, on, switch off and start and stop.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: And the machine has taken care of everything else itself and let the stuff work in peace. But we can look what the machine makes.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker C: it's simple for the people on the machine and we control it and the machine control himself. And when he has a problem, he becomes online.
Speaker A: Yeah, perfect. It's a great solution. And from your perspective, how much of it is the operator and how much of it is the machine? Because I guess the operator has to scrape and load and you know, what's the relationship between.
Speaker C: The most problems come from the operator. Uh,
Speaker A: of course
Speaker C: the machine runs when you drive with the car, the car drive when you crash on the wall. It's not the problem of the car, though. We must drain the operator. And when we make a good job by the training, then we have a light job on the festival.
Speaker A: Yeah, of course we talked about. And then if we just touch a bit on sustainability, I guess sustainability, it is important. I mean, Germany's quite keen on sustainability. And there's no single use plastics, it's all reusable, it's all washed glass and things. What from your perspective, do you think is the take on sustainability for Oktoberfest? And how are you, how are you working as a manufacturer around that?
Speaker B: So looking at the quantity of, uh, glasses and crockery that we managed to wash at Oktoberfest, we could really calculate how many liters of water and how many kilowatts we use we need for our dishwashers. So the point is, the more we can save in consumption, the more we are sustainable. It was, uh, during the pandemic we started a cooperation with University uh, of Padua, with the engineering department. And that cooperation led to achieve the lowest water consumption available in the market on flight type machines.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: We won the Greensmart label award at host exhibition in 2023. And I think, uh, that's the point. So to be able to save as much water and consequently electricity, uh,
Speaker A: energy. Chemical.
Speaker B: Chemical, yeah,
Speaker A: yeah, of course. And
Speaker B: without compromising the result, obviously.
Speaker A: Yes, of course. Without, without compromise and looking at kind of like, you know, the fiend about. I mean, if you look at Oktoberfest is probably like the extreme example, I mean, of, you know, of, of washing. Really, what's the most important piece of feedback that you've taken for Munich from Ottoberfest and giving it back to Giovanni and the factory, would you say?
Speaker C: Um, I think, uh, 16 days, uh, on the Oktoberfest, it's five years in the real
Speaker A: life.
Speaker C: Um, I
Speaker A: think it probably is as well. If you're drinking 16 days
Speaker C: and the weekend when the machine runs and the people are very pushing though, you have many, many dirt and, and um, you have all problems on the 16 days.
Speaker A: Yeah. So
Speaker C: I can uh, give a feedback what's, uh, what is good, what is easy, what we can make better.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker C: Ah.
Speaker A: So, yeah, a constant thing.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: And from your perspective, you know, as a manufacturer in here, obviously you are R and D department. How do you filter that between what is real and what is noise?
Speaker B: So actually it's a very streamlined process. We have a, uh, pipeline organized by priorities. So being in 120 plus countries, the market needs are different and we want to be local everywhere.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Which is not easy. Which means that we have to understand which product development makes more sense at a certain point in time.
Speaker A: Of course.
Speaker B: So that's the uh, filter. That's
Speaker A: the
Speaker B: filter. And then with our pipeline very clear, we go ahead.
Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. And I guess addressing any urgent issues, or depending on what they are, if you see them.
Speaker B: Absolutely.
Speaker A: Uh, and for the next 10 years, where do you see ware washing going in the next 10 years from your perspective?
Speaker B: I think that we just entered in a new decade looking that new norms entered the game. Luckily, I would say, because the new leading norm in Europe, um, which is used as a standard also in other countries outside Europe is the EN17735 in force starting from July 2022. And it's basically prescribing that the plate at the end of the washing program has to be clean and hygienized. How is it tested? There is a. The test is very strict. So there is a bacterial culture which has to be done in the factory and then a, uh, third part laboratory comes and several tests are carried out. At the end there is a, um, um, bacterial test done at the surface of the plate after the washing.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And the result has to be 99.9999% of B material reduction, which is very assuring. So this is the, the only way you can really say my dishwasher is actually not only cleaning, but hygienizing.
Speaker A: Killing the bacteria.
Speaker B: Killing the bacteria,
Speaker A: yeah.
Speaker B: So we just enter into this new phase and at this point it's clear that a certain, a certain quantity of water and consequently Electricity and chemicals is needed in order to achieve this result. But then other factors may occur like uh, pressure. So how you balance pressure and how the nozzles are pointing are directing the water into the plate. So you could literally save water just by changing the direction of the nozzles. And these little things which are not that little,
Speaker A: make a difference.
Speaker B: Make the difference.
Speaker A: So it's more, you see it more. So continuing on the road that you're going around. Sustainability, hygiene and um, um, connectivity really it's sort of. We're already on that 10 year journey.
Speaker B: Absolutely.
Speaker A: Just more of the same.
Speaker B: Absolutely. Uh, you're right. Connectivity is uh, also a big part of the game because it will basically reduce all the distances.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And it will allow the partner we may have in any area of the world to take care of his customers in a much more efficient way.
Speaker A: Okay, so we're coming almost the end of the podcast. We're going to have a quick fire round. Um, let's
Speaker B: go for
Speaker A: fun questions and it's try to keep the answers short and concise if you can.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: So I'll start with. Let me start with you, Giovanni.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: Your first memory of Oktoberfest?
Speaker B: Oh, it goes way back. It was nine, ten years old.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Or young if you wish.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And you went there with my family and you know as a kid I was seeing everything like huge. And I remember I had the best grilled chicken of my, my life.
Speaker A: So it's a family event as well. Yeah.
Speaker B: At that time I wasn't allowed to drink beer. Of course.
Speaker A: Of course. From your perspective,
Speaker C: I'm 52 years old and I think I was 50 years on the Oktoberfest.
Speaker A: So you don't remember your first memory? What's the hardest thing to wash at the Oktoberfest? Is it, is it the glass? Is it the plates? Is it a heavy cooking equipment? What's the hard hit?
Speaker C: The plates.
Speaker A: The place the
Speaker C: plates.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Ah, Giovanni. Of
Speaker B: course. Absolutely. Uh,
Speaker A: yeah.
Speaker B: Perhaps also pots and pans. If too but in the end
Speaker C: not sold the problem. But uh, the plates you have uh. When you have a technical sheets of the machine, the machine can wash 2,000 blades per hour. So in, in a hospital you have 2000 blades for one hour then stops. You have 2000 blades for how they completely die.
Speaker A: Yeah. 18 hours. Yeah. It's a lot.
Speaker C: And, and we have 5 grams uh uh, dirt on the blade by 2000 blades per hour. Uh uh, for hour. It's the many thing of uh,
Speaker A: it's a lot. There's a lot.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: At the beginning of the podcast, we talked about Hubert Hackel and he described it. He didn't want a Formula one car, he wanted a tank. Formula one car or tank?
Speaker B: We can do both, depending on
Speaker A: the customer needs.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: A very, very fast tank.
Speaker A: I like it. One Bavarian dish. Every visitor should eat. Should try
Speaker B: porn.
Speaker A: Pork knuckle, like that. Uh, so I love the sticks
Speaker B: also. I
Speaker A: love the
Speaker B: sticks also. Also
Speaker A: curry verse. Is that. I don't know if that's Bavarian, but anyway, those are the favorites for me. So would you rather face the midnight finish or 6am start? Giovanni?
Speaker B: 6am start. Are
Speaker A: you a morning person?
Speaker B: Yeah, I am.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: I am, I am.
Speaker A: And from your perspective, your colleague in Germany clearly doesn't agree with you.
Speaker C: I like to start at, uh, 6:00am um, the area, it's cleaning and uh, it's very perfect.
Speaker A: It's a great start. One item that should be in the technician's toolkit for Oktoberfest
Speaker C: for the first, a screwdriver and electric, uh, tester.
Speaker A: Yeah. Um,
Speaker C: and all another come later.
Speaker A: Do you agree, Giovanni?
Speaker B: Absolutely. 100.
Speaker C: You can, you can make the most problems with a screwdriver, a knife.
Speaker A: Yeah. Electrical
Speaker C: tester.
Speaker B: An electric tester. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A: When the pressure is on, um, coffee, water or beer at the end of the day.
Speaker B: At the end of the day. Well,
Speaker A: at the festival.
Speaker B: At the festival. Ah. Uh, that's a rhetorical question.
Speaker A: Exactly. It's got to be a beer.
Speaker B: It's going to be a beer.
Speaker C: He comes from Bavaria. The end of the day is a beer.
Speaker A: Absolutely. And then Oktoberfest in three words, can you do it?
Speaker B: Fun beer and just beautiful, uh, vibes.
Speaker A: Cool.
Speaker C: Beautiful vibes. Beautiful vibes. Yes, many. To work.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker B: to work.
Speaker C: From
Speaker B: your perspective. Makes sense.
Speaker C: Uh, very interesting job.
Speaker A: Cool. I like that. Uh, okay, well, that kind of brings us almost to the end. But just a final point from both of you, uh, because this is a podcast around food service equipment. What's the most important thing a long term supplier relationship must deliver or can do? Really?
Speaker B: It's all about being, uh, in contact in, in the most human way.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: It allows you to talk about things which are not necessarily related to the job. Like how are you, how is your family? And then why not just laugh and, and uh, enjoy.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And in the meanwhile, exchanging business information. So you can really, you can really, you can really enjoy. You can really
Speaker A: enjoy and cement the relationship, I suppose.
Speaker B: Yes, yes.
Speaker A: And Herbert, from your perspective, what's the most important thing of this sort of business? Relationship.
Speaker C: Trust.
Speaker A: Trust,
Speaker C: yes. You must work many, many time for the trust.
Speaker A: Okay,
Speaker C: this is, um, the only.
Speaker B: So true.
Speaker A: Yeah. I have some really, really good advice is about being honest, I guess, when things go well and when things go wrong.
Speaker B: Exactly.
Speaker A: And dealing with them, um, properly. Okay. Well, sadly, that brings us to the end. I hope you both enjoyed it.
Speaker B: Well, I really did.
Speaker A: Herbert, I appreciate you coming all the way from Munich as well to be with us here. Although you tell me it was a beautiful drive. And, uh, Giovanni, thank you for hosting us. Um, thank
Speaker B: you so
Speaker A: much. Pleasure to be here again. And no doubt I'll be here again next year.
Speaker B: Thank you, Edfeld. It was my pleasure.
Speaker A: So the public sees the beer, uh, the food, the celebration, and if you've not been to Oktoberfest, maybe next year you should go to Oktoberfest because it's an absolutely phenomenal festival, like something you're never gonna see anywhere else on the planet with the hospitality and the fun that goes in. But I guess what we don't see is all the planning, the engineering, the training, the technical teamwork that goes in for the food service equipment that does delivering everything at the festival. And hopefully this show has given you a slight insight. This edition of Kitchen Curiosity has been produced in partnership with Ali Group, and if you want to find out more about deer and its complete ware washing solution, you can visit dihruh.com I hope you've enjoyed the conversation. If you've got time, follow or subscribe Kitchen Curiosity on your usual podcast platform. If you want to ask me any questions or you want to become a guest on the show, you can email me at, uh, radforditchencuriosity. Ah.co.uk I've been your host, Radford Chancellor, and you've been listening to Kitchen Curiosity.
Speaker D: Kitchen Curiosity is written and hosted by Radford Chancellor and is edited and produced by Tom Anderson. Kitchen Curiosity is a sound rebel production.
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