S3 Ep20: Rapid Cooling with Zest Foodservice Solutions and Enviro-Cool

Speaker A: Hello. Welcome to Kitchen Kioskity, the podcast where we delve into people, ideas and innovations shaping the global food service and hospitality equipment industry. I'm your host, Radford Chancellor, and today we've got a double act, if you like, a fantastic couple of guests with me in the studio here in Canary Wharf. But before we get going, I just want to say thank you to our sponsors, Zest Food Service Solutions and Envirocool, for sponsoring this, uh, podcast. We're going to be talking to both these gentlemen about their products, innovations, and some new bits of kit that are coming on the market. So, first of all, I'm going to sit down with Zest director Chris Bing, and then I'm going to be sitting down with Paul Harper, who's an old friend of mine. He's come all the way from Australia, not just to see us, but, uh, he's here on business, so let's get on with it. Anyway, so my first guest today knows pretty much everything you need to know about catering equipment industry inside out, I think. He is the, uh, managing director of Zest Food Service Solutions, Chris Bing. He's also one of our sponsors. And, um, Chris, how are you? Welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Thank you, Rafa. Yeah. All good? Yeah, very good.

Speaker A: So, I mean, normally what I like to do is, before we just sort of get into, like, your business and what you do as a biz, as a company, just for the listeners, can you take us a little bit, like, about you? Maybe just go back to, like, where were you brought up and school and then all of that?

Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So I was brought up in Guildford in Surrey.

Speaker A: Oh, wow.

Speaker B: Yeah. Do you live there now? Wow.

Speaker A: I didn't know that.

Speaker B: That was my hometown. Born and bred in Guildford. And you're not there anymore? No, now I live in Bedfordshire.

Speaker A: Oh, okay. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah. Via Guernsey in the Channel Islands.

Speaker A: Oh, okay.

Speaker B: So, uh, yeah, I born and bred at Guildford, Uh, educated there. And then my love of food came along and I went to Guildford College of Technology to do all my catering qualifications.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Uh, which was a fantastic experience. They just opened their new facility at the time, so really expanded facility there. And then I went on to sort of live a career as a chef in a few various places. Nowhere, Nowhere at the top of the ladder, but some nice places. And that culminated in me moving over to Guernsey in the Channel Islands for eight years.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah, Chefing, which was fantastic. So much fresh seafood and, um, a really nice environment. Uh, but you wanted to come back to the UK at times because you felt so Insular there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But it is a beautiful island.

Speaker A: I must great in the summer, but probably harder in the winter.

Speaker B: Yeah, it doesn't get so cold as it does here, but it's very wet and windy. But there's always a beach that's sheltered from the wind. There's always a sunny side of the island, so to speak. So yeah, yeah, it's a fantastic place to live. So I did eight years over there.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then come back to the UK and um, finished my chef career and did a little bit of training and development for a while and went on to sort of teach MVQs and support younger people into the industry for a while, which was good.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Before I then got into sales.

Speaker A: Okay. And what was your first job in sales?

Speaker B: Uh, I work in selling the thermalite product.

Speaker A: Oh, was it?

Speaker B: All right?

Speaker A: So literally that was. Oh, right. So this new one from you've been m with the advanced group. Really? And then now it's heading up.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, yeah. And then a little while out. A little while out during the COVID times and when I worked for, for Gamble food Service and working with Hatco products and things like that.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. So how long. So how long you been in the food service equipment sector?

Speaker B: Since 2013. So.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: 12 years.

Speaker A: So 12. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So reasonably new in this room.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So we've got a, uh, professor with us today. So. But you also, um, you're part of the Burnt Chef project. You're a mental first aider. What. What got you into that? Why is that important?

Speaker B: I'll tell you what. It's from when I um, obviously having been a chef myself and live the experience of how tough the, the hospitality environment can be on that side of things. And got introduced to Chris hall, the founder and now the global, uh, president, I think is his title of the Burnt Chef project. I was so inspired by his vision for how the industry can be supported and then understood how I could get involved with the ambassador project and to get on board as an ambassador. And it's just a fantastic thing to be able to in your day to day, just spreading the word about. About mental health.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And the example I always use is if I walked in today and met you and I had a patch over one of my eyes or I was walking with a limp, I'm sure you'd have said, chris, what's happened? You know, have you done something to your leg or you done something to your eye? But when it comes to people's mental health, you know, it's inside People don't see it. So it's that, are you okay? It's. Are you okay? You know, it's, it's double checking with people and making sure they're okay and just having the conversations that over the years have been tough conversations. You know, we all probably come from families where dad, granddad, come on, stiff upper lip, boys don't cry, all this sort of stuff. But in this industry and in life in general, especially with young men, you know, the suicide rate and uh, the mental health problems that come with hospitality, especially long hours, poor conditions, it's big. So if I can give anything back to the industry that I'm now a supplier to, then I know I love by, by being able to open up those conversations. It's great. And the elephant in our own industry,

Speaker A: the food service industry, we've, we've, we've seen a number of guys take their lives.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: You know, mainly men, uh, a couple of women, but main, mainly men.

Speaker B: Yeah. It's a, it's a big thing. It's a big thing.

Speaker A: So a great thing you're doing, really.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny that the vert chef projects, ah, sort of mascot is that elephant. I'm sure if you've been to any of the shows or any places that it's the elephant in the room. A massive, big blow up sort of elephant there to uh, just to have that conversation opener.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it can be anywhere. You know, I was wearing a wristband and I met someone at uh, a water bottle and I met someone at Blackfriars station one day and he was a chef and he spotted it and he was having a really bad day. So I had a conversation with him, just sat down, the trains were delayed and he was like, I understand what that is, tell me a bit more about it. And that was just a random conversation on the station platform. It's those sort of conversations that I don't know what was going on in his life at that time and I don't know what was going on in his life afterwards. But just taking a few minutes to

Speaker A: chat to somebody, I can change people's day, can't I?

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Just even smiling at them all. Yeah. Good work. Let's talk about kitchens and Zest food service solutions. So your company tagline is inspired Buy your kitchens perfect by Zest. Yeah, you got quite a specific portfolio of products. They're quite unique really in the market. Things like Thermodyne. What we can talk about today, VTech and uh, other products. So do you want to talk about your business and what products you've got and. Yeah. What's behind it really.

Speaker B: Yeah, sure. It's um, you know, Thermodyne has been a partner of the business for many years and it's, it's around finding those excellent solutions that are going to really add value to a kitchen. Sometimes they're new, sometimes they're innovative, sometimes they're a bit disruptive. And it takes, it takes ah, a while for people to understand what they do. But it's, we're trying to stay away from a lot of the commodity products and to find something that's a little bit different, a little bit special, potentially with, you know, sustainability, uh, credentials or with um, energy efficiency, uh, not needing extraction, simple plug and play things that can really add value to a kitchen operation that might be different to the norm.

Speaker A: Okay. All right. And the brand specific brands are.

Speaker B: So we've got um, vtex, which I'm talking about today, another product I want to talk about a bit in shortly, which is a new product called Suji. Uh, we then have Gem refrigeration.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And a lot of that comes with some specialist wine refrigeration, some, some um, meat aging refrigeration and chocolate ice cream patisserie refrigeration.

Speaker A: Okay. Yeah.

Speaker B: Great range of blast chillers. We also look after Staginello in the uk which is meat, fish and charcuterie aging cabinets.

Speaker A: Right, okay.

Speaker B: Uh, we've recently taken on um, the license to support the hot mix product in the uk which is a specialist thermal processor. And they also have an ice cream processing machine.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Kripps dishwashers. Again, we're one of the partners in the UK for Krupps dishwashers. And again, um, they've got a very good new range of sort of high tech dishwashers that can, that can add a great value to a kitchen. Okay, that's another option.

Speaker A: So some quite specialist products and you know, for different, different uses. Different.

Speaker B: That's right. And Thermodyn, obviously.

Speaker A: Thermodyne, of course. Yeah. Which is quite a long standing.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker D: Product.

Speaker A: We see, we see a lot of it around. So let's, let's talk about the new product. Is it Suji?

Speaker B: Suji. Suji.

Speaker A: Which is a first really. I mean you told me a little bit on the phone when we chatted. But you know, it sounds like every commercial kitchen can do with it. But, but tell me about what is it?

Speaker B: 100. It's, it's so different and it's, it's effectively uh, an Oil recycling solution where you literally change your dirty cooking oil into a high grade cleaning product.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: In six minutes.

Speaker A: Okay. Right. So you take your dirty cooking oil.

Speaker B: Yes. And you turn it into cleaning products in six minutes. How so there's a boxy. Yeah, it's mad. And it's that mad that the, the inventor who, who we, we created a relationship with when he was going through the prototype and how we've come on board as the UK partners. When you press the button on the machine, it says let the magic begin. So they've even got that little tagline in there. It's so a box on the wall that you put in your cleaning cupboard or your janitorial area. Little connection to water. 13 hour plug, plug and play. Very simple. The recognizable blue oil container that a lot of oil goes back into.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You pour your dirty oil for a small filter into that. Then you connect an enzyme and the enzymes vary to the product you want to create.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And you press the button and in the machine it creates this chemical solution for your cleaning chemical solution. And out it comes into another container.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: At the moment there is multi surface cleaner, floor cleaner, laundry detergent, carpet cleaner, manual washing up liquid and automatic dishwasher liquid.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And if you think you could be cooking fish and chips at lunchtime, you could cool the oil down, you could drain it and you could wash your clothes in the evening. It's mind blowing.

Speaker A: That is mind blowing.

Speaker B: But, uh, when you think of every kitchen, every kitchen has cooking oil.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: They all have different. You know, they have. Sometimes you have rogue traders that come to try and claim they're collecting it from a reputable business. Sometimes, you know, compounds, outside businesses get stolen and it all gets broken into stolen businesses. You know, some they sell back to their current supply and get a small discount off of their oil. And what we're not trying to do here is to take all of that because if you have 60 liters of

Speaker A: oil a week, that'd be a lot of chemicals.

Speaker B: You can't make that much chemical. Uh, but what I'm saying is if you have a relationship with your manufacturer or your supplier of your clean oil and you only send him back 55 litres one week and you keep five to make all the cleaning chemicals you need for your business, you're still getting a discount off your oil.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And now you're not needing to buy those cleaning chemicals.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, of course. So you just filter the oil a little bit and then put it into this machine. I'm just like trying to visualize this.

Speaker B: So, yeah, it basically mixes a blend of the dirty oil, the enzyme. The enzyme you have to purchase. But the other thing that happens here is the concentrate that comes out and when you, when you dilute it down into the relevant, uh, parts per 100, uh, for the relevant processes and things you want to clean.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: The final product is still significantly cheaper than what your cleaning company you're buying.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Because you're using part of the, part of the ingredients is your dirty oil.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course.

Speaker B: So the machine mixes the dirty oil with an enzyme and some fresh water, blends it together and now it comes.

Speaker A: And how is it, how long you've been representing or looking after this product?

Speaker B: It's brand new.

Speaker D: Okay.

Speaker B: So, yeah, the license design this year, we're just launching it now. Got a few trial sites coming up.

Speaker A: How's that feedback been?

Speaker B: Yeah, exciting. Yeah, it's exciting. It's. It's like, you know, we're going to talk about VTECS as well today. It's not like selling one oven to another oven. People know how an oven works or selling one fridge to another fridge. People know how fridge works. You don't need to educate them. You just have to have a commercial proposal that beats the competitor and then hopefully you can go on and sell lots of that product with this. It's a completely new idea and like a lot of innovation that we'll probably talk about a bit more today. It's making people understand you don't always have to do it the way you've always done it.

Speaker A: Yeah. I could think of a lot of organizations in London that would, well, like the uk that would really love, love that product, especially other sort of the, you know, the, the B corpse and the environmentally friendly and all of that. It's a real.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's obviously got the money saving, you know, using a product you've already got. It's obviously got all of the ESG and the sort of sustainability sort of, uh, things going for it. So, yeah, it's disruptive and it's gonna, it's gonna make make waves in the industry, I think. And hopefully we get, hopefully we get a lot of people on board with it because it's fantastic.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So kind of staying on that theme because this is. That's kind of like it's environmentally friendly product as well, isn't it? In that way, I suppose when you're. Because you sell many food distributors, I think.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's about getting it specified with people and wherever that specifier has their route to market we will, we will support them. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: Do you find when you work with distributors, uh, you know, are they genuinely looking for green sustainable solutions or are they still focusing on the price tag or is it different horses for different courses?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know, it filters back down to the end user, uh, and the different stakeholders within the end user business.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And I still feel, and this is, this is a shame in some ways in our industry and in others that the sustainable product or the more operational excellence product quite often comes with slightly different price tag and therefore it's satisfying the stakeholders in all parts of the business. Everyone wants to do the right thing. Everyone on their CSR policies, on their websites and things wants to do the right thing. But sometimes it comes down to the numbers and it's, it's, it's trying to get people to change that mindset. And again, with the VTEX product we're going to talk about now, it isn't always more expensive and actually there's savings to be made in other areas of the business by adopting some of these products. Yes, but it's changing the mindset, of course.

Speaker A: Yeah. And building the story in the case, the business case.

Speaker B: Absolutely, if you like. And, and the stubbornness in, in, you know, and again, having been a chef myself, there's, yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, you know, so it's more, not so much distribution channel, it's more. It comes down to the end customer.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: What, what, what they're driving.

Speaker B: I think every consultant and every distributor in the UK is, is probably having the same, the same challenges where they know there's a really great solution, but it's trying to get the end user operator or the QS or the project team on whether they're building a new business or doing a replacement to really adopt that new technology.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I think that's a fair point. Definitely. So, I mean with equipment it's only as good as the support really. So how does Zest approach things like demonstrations, installation, training, after sales? What's your take on that?

Speaker B: It's really important and we're really keen to support people from the beginning, all the way to the end. And again, selecting our partners and selecting our manufacturers, like we're here today with Paul, is about having that really joined up approach all the way from the factory to the installation. And we're always open to pass over any information required, do demonstrations.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, go out and do training. The after sales is really important and to make sure that we've got the parts required, servicing manuals, you know, the engineer training. So that any service call can be fixed as quickly as possible with a first time fix.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, and with the sort of thing we've done with VTech for example, their tech support team have got a fantastic manual of, you know, right down to the end teeth how long something should take to be fixed, what the part is. And to have that sort of partnership and have the manufacturers with that sort of knowledge really helps the engineers that are going out to the customers and looking at business.

Speaker A: I mean Zest is reasonably young name in the market. I know you're backed by a team with over 40s experience. A big, a big group.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: A well known established group. What, what's the kind of ambition, what do you want from Zest really? Uh, over the next few years?

Speaker B: I think it's to continue with, uh, with developing and working with our partners on these innovative products.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: To build the awareness of the brand that it's, it's at the forefront of people's minds when it comes to an innovative solution in their kitchen. And you know, with a couple of these products we've got, well nearly all the products we've got, there is some, there's some real scope to really make a difference.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And uh, I think that's, that's what we're looking to do in the next few years.

Speaker A: I think it's a good idea and it's a good, good concept because obviously your experience in developing, checking, monitoring new brands before you launch them out in market so people got some confidence really that, that it's, it does what it says in the tin.

Speaker B: I suppose so yeah, it's about, it's about picking the right partners and picking the right equipment. You know there is, there's so many ideas and innovations out there in the, in the world and there, there you get people messaging you quite often through, through social network and things with the new idea. But it is about having a brand that fits with our target market. Some of the sectors we look after, some of the customers that we're looking to support. It's about the reliability and scalability. It's about the support from factory, as I said, all the way to the end user about the right commercial partnership obviously because businesses have to survive and make money. So yeah, um, it's about picking those right partners really.

Speaker A: Okay. Well Chris, it's been great talking to you and also hearing about the UK market and your, your business that you represent. If you don't mind sticking around.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: I'm gonna invite Paul into the studio and um, obviously catch up with Him. And then we're also gonna invite you come back for the group chat. We'll talk a bit more as well about VTech, uh, that we would talk about today.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: So, thanks. So my second guest today is someone I've known for quite a long time, going right back to his days in the uk. I'm uh, especially pleased to say he sat here with me in the studio, right across the desk from me, all the way from Australia. So it feels like a proper reunion, more than just an interview, to be honest. Paula Harper has spent over 35 years in global food service equipment. He launched various different brands, um, represented Turbo Chef, also Auto Sham and um, I think as well a dandy. So very experienced gentleman in our sector. But today he's here to talk to us about vtec and obviously we're going to catch up with him as well, so. So let's get on with it. Paul, welcome to show. How are you?

Speaker D: I'm really well, Radford, and I'm all the better. Come and see you guys.

Speaker A: Oh, the Good, good. Well, yeah, it's been a long time, so I think it must go back to the Turbo Chef days.

Speaker D: Yeah, I think it does. I think 20, 25, 25, 26 years, probably.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah, I know.

Speaker D: That's what I'm worried about.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, exactly. Well, the other day I was called old on LinkedIn. Yeah, but, but anyway, we'll go down that road. So again, talk me through a little bit about, you know, younger Paul, where he went to school, you know, a little bit, and then when you obviously moved over to Australia.

Speaker D: Yeah, sure. Um, well, I'm. As you'll get from the accent, I've not lost it. I've, um, not got the Aussie accent. I've got little twangs in there every now and again. But no, I'm a Somerset born and bred. A little place between Bristol and Bath called Kencham. So for those of a certain age, they'll know that's Horace Bachelor country and I'll let them, uh, do the Google search on that one. But he's the, he's the famous guy that, uh, brought Kensham into the, into the world, I suppose, and very similar to Chris. I loved food, you know, and I thought, what am I going to do with my life? So for me it was an early day of, of, you know, classically training as a chef. Um, so, you know, I've been that side of the, that side of the, the fence. Yeah. And, you know, I quickly decided that although I Went through various parts of the industry from, from a food perspective that uh, is probably what wasn't what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And like everything, you fall into different things. And uh, I got involved into a company which I started, actually started a drinks company in, in the UK called Noisy Drinks many years ago.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: And that's really what got me into my, my equipment side which then got me into the ice cream, a single serve product that I worked on with Serve Equip.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: And just happened to fall over this thing called TurboChef that Serv equip had at the time, loved the product and because I could cook, it was one of those ones. I just thought this is fantastic. And whilst at the time they were rolling out into places like Subway, which was an easy role, I was looking at other things. And in London at that time I was coming in and I think it was a coffee chain called Coffee Republic. And yeah, I haven't been here for years so uh, it's, it's understand where that's still around or not. But uh, I managed to put a number of those um, ovens into that, into that group. And then a vice, the president of Turbo Chef came over and said, who's the guy that's done all of this outside of Subway? And it was like fingers got pointed to me over in the corner where I was, I was busy doing other things and uh, basically they, they sort of came and pinched me and said would you do something in the UK for us? Set it, set it up. And okay. I started working with another gentleman in the UK as well. And we, we launched TurboChef UK.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker D: Uh, which supported a number of different things. But that really got me, that was my first step to go down to Australia because the opportunity came when Subway were launching in Australia and Paul Lear at the time who was the president of the company said look, you know, well, we'd like someone down in um, down in Australia to start them off, but we don't want anybody to live there. But would you go down and. Of course, yeah, of course.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: That was a hard, that was a hard ask. So, so I went down and you know, uh, met some of the industry people down there that set us off who are now, you know, long term business friends, uh, people, you know, uh, trusted people that you know, I've known for years now and that was sort of my journey on that side. And then obviously uh, Turbo Shekel bought out by Middleby Middle. We wanted to be in a corporate group and then the call came, we'd like someone down in Australia all the time. So that.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: Became a bit of a family decision. Wasn't a difficult one for my wife at the time because she always wanted to go down.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker D: Yeah, uh, okay, that's what, that's what we did. So we got down to Australia and then my other roles within other companies.

Speaker A: You have children to move as well?

Speaker D: Yes, yeah, we had one. So the thing for me was, well, uh, Amy, my daughter, was, was at the age where she was just about to go to secondary school and I just wanted that, okay, four or five year solid gap. We said, oh, we'll be there for four or five years, never come back.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Uh, and of course, 16, 17 years later, I'm still there. So that sort of tells you one thing.

Speaker A: You're in Brisbane.

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker A: So I.

Speaker D: On the east coast, so subtropical. So I always thought that I might struggle with the heat, but it's a thing that I love now. So coming over here, bringing a bit of Aussie weather with you, with me, it's been, it's been quite good. But, but yeah, it's lovely, you know, and if, you know, we, we know it's going to be hot, so we're prepared for it. So it's always a lot easier. You know, it's, you know, they say winging ponds, but at the end of the day it's, you know, here is not geared up for this weather.

Speaker A: Yeah, we're not.

Speaker D: No. And it's no different than we're not geared up for the cold weather.

Speaker A: We have to probably start gearing up.

Speaker D: Yeah, but absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, so sort of fast forward now in your current role. Uh, Envirocle.

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker A: Tell me a bit about, about that. What, what is that? Uh, what products do you have? And you know, what was the.

Speaker D: Yeah, so the sort of story is, I suppose, uh, I was again, ah, probably a show. I, uh, had a couple of investors come up to me and tapped me on the shoulder and said, we've been told to come and speak to you. I said, oh, right. Okay. And then long, long story short, basically I, they explained the product. That's, that's quite smart. I like that it took a while, a little bit of convincing, uh, because I had some really enjoyable years with Alto Sham. Yeah, I did some, you know, I felt I've left a legacy with the company, still communicate with them. It's a good brand. I don't think anybody I've worked with previously, I would say everything that I've got previously has been good. But I think Alto Sham, it was a really difficult decision.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And I made it. I uh, think you get one chance in life, why not experience as much as you can? And for me I thought I could make a difference. I thought I had enough knowledge from my previous times with previous companies to be able to give them an opportunity to make the product and uh, launch it to the extent that it deserved. A lot of people putting a lot of money into this.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker D: And that money is hard earned money. So the way I see it's a respect for that and it deserves, it deserves some sound bites in our marketplace because it's an excellent product. So the technology is all built around the need to look at refrigeration differently. It creates some of the most, you know, uses the most energy. It's not as efficient when you look at the technology we're actually deploying. And I think, you know, as a whole that's really what that brought me in. I could see where it could be applied. And it's about building networks. You know, we have a, uh, strategy which basically from a global perspective, it's designed to be a distribution model like Zest. We find good partners that understand what you could class is disruptive, um, technically advanced products that people haven't seen. So you're trying to take those early adopters, uh, and you'll always have in every industry, whether it's equipment, food service, restaurants, uh, doesn't matter how you look at it, you'll always have those that are the innovators. And then you're going to get those that are replicators. So the innovators will get there first, the replicators will sit back and have a look at all of this. Is it going to work? And then decide, uh, it's actually working, we better jump on. And that's a little bit like turbochef. I can remember going back in the day saying to people this will be its own sector. It'll be if you know, accelerated, um, cook platforms, uh, ventless technology. It will be its own sector. And look at it today. There's massive hundreds of different manufacturers from copying it, that copy it and that, that's, that's you know, an endorsement that the technology is right and it works.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: So when you're being copied, you know you're doing something right. It's not always good for the inventor but ultimately there's enough space out there.

Speaker A: So within Viracore, you got, you got the VTEC product. Is there another product or so?

Speaker D: No, it took sort of five to 10 years to really hone in on um, what that the product we've got today is going to look like.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: And I suppose it's really been over in the last 12 months we've gone from say a Mark 1 model to a Mark 2 model. Mark 1 is almost beta, uh, not quite, but it needed some industry uh, time. So the industry could feedback and say yeah this is great or this is great, but we like this, this and this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And then we sort of transitioned, which we did, I joined last June and we transitioned to Launch the Mark 2 standalone VTEC product at uh, host. Okay on the FCSI stand. It was fantastic uh, event and we got some really good contact. I just really could see that for

Speaker A: kind of the listeners just explain what is this VTech, but what does it do?

Speaker D: Okay, so VTEX is designed to chill a package drink. Um, we say from 60 seconds onwards. And that's really depending on what you're putting in. So from a can of Coke, can of beer to a bottle of beer, bottle of water to a bottle of wine or a bottle of champagne and even a Magnum now with the Mark two, so we've got the ability to put a fairly large rapid cooling. So taking something from an ambient temperature, so that ambient could be 20, 25 degrees and then we're bringing it down to a cool serve temperature.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, really quick.

Speaker D: Yeah really quick. So from 60 second upwards, if you took an aluminium can of Coke or something, we can basically chill eight cans in 60 seconds.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: Shouldn't be long before we can double that. Um, the unit will be able to, to cope with it. But at this moment in time is, is eight cans which if you take it by the hour and a bit of unloading and loading, it's about 450 cans every hour. With a bottle of wine, 75cl bottle, it's about 40 bottles an hour. So when you look at where can this go, how can it fit into our environment? It's starts to get you to think about your refrigeration that's currently, uh, that you're currently using. Because there's lots of pushbacks. You'll go in and I'm learning all of those and people will come in and say I've got refrigeration, why do I need this? And it's like there's a number of different reasons you've got the ability to use your refrigeration. We're not saying take your refrigeration away and waste that capital uh, you spent on it. But there may be different ways that you can run your operations. Especially in restaurants where you, you've got some more faster moving products, put them in the fridge, take the slower ones out and put more faster moving in your fridge. So that's one help. Yeah, take your slower ones out. M. But your slow ones might be bottles of wine. But we only, we only serve six bottles of wine because we haven't got enough storage capacity to do anymore. And I say to people, you know, if you've got six bottles of white wine on your, when you met on your menu, you can have six behind it stock. So that's 36 bottles.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: You know, if we go on a night and we all like drinking Chardonnay or something like that, you know, you can very quickly run out and then you can't wait 90 minutes until you serve the next one.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: It's disappointment. Oh, you got no more Chardonnay. Or is it warm? Ah, so it's, it's. That bit's tough. So for us we can take it out and we can say, you're never going to run out of a chilled bottle of anything because even the stuff that's in the fridge, if you've, you know, got a rugby group coming in, they all like a particular type of cider or whatever and they drink you out, you can start putting it back chilled. Yeah. 80 at a time. Um, if it's wine, then you can turn around, say, well, you don't need 36 now. You can actually have 36 different types or 18 different types. Have one behind. Every time you take one out the fridge or you take one, you replace one.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker D: Or you just chill as you need it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Uh, so there's a number of different ways for established restaurants in the design side of things. When you're looking at new builds and greenfield sites, that's when it becomes even more exciting as well. And obviously this is not just a product for a restaurant. It's products for, uh, retail retailers, supermarkets, convenience stores. Uh, I want one at home.

Speaker B: Well,

Speaker D: we'll get on to that one later on. Because that's when you say, what's in the range? The range is mark 2. It's the multi drink VTEX unit. We have got. Uh, what would. I would. I'm going to use a new, new, new word for you. You know, people come up with these new words every now and again and I've used it a few times. Res mercial.

Speaker A: Whatsoever.

Speaker D: Resal.

Speaker A: Res mercial.

Speaker D: Put that one on your card. So this, this is about taking something that could be residential but it was also commercial. Our industry or residential loves this, this crossover between, oh, I've got something that's in a proper kitchen, you know that I've got it at home. Everybody said I'll have one of those at home. So what you're ending up with is you've, you've got this commercial product that's really for the home as well. Yeah. So we, we will have within the next 18 months something that we'll put into the market that will be more tabletop standalone using the same technology. So this will be like a um, air fryer size product that uh, wow. On the Friday afternoon you go home and you like, especially days like today when it's warm and you can you get in, you open your fridge, there's nothing in there. We're going to put a bottle of wine in. We haven't in the fridge. That's not no problem. I'll put it in one of my new little tabletop v texes. I'll put it in. Four minutes later I've got a nice chilled bottle of wine. So you're never going to run out of a chilled wine at home. So if you think of the logic of what air fryers have done for the home industry with all gardens, we've probably got three ovens, we've got a microwave, we've got probably a heating oven and a roasting oven. Now we got, now we've got an air fryer.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: What we're saying and where we're looking is you've got a fridge. Some people have got a wine fridge.

Speaker A: If you're lucky.

Speaker D: Yeah, if you're lucky. And now you can just have one of these in the corner quietly away. Just sits there quietly.

Speaker A: The thing as well is now there's just not enough space in the fridge.

Speaker D: Correct. Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, I put a bottle in, it keeps getting taken out and put back on the rack. And that's uh, like.

Speaker D: And we've all done it. We all bring, we uh, all bring, we all bring our bottles home and think, oh yeah, stick in the freezer. It still takes time.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: Three minutes, four minutes in this. And cans, cans of beer. It doesn't have to be just wine. Cans will, you know, cans will do in 30 seconds. 60 seconds. Sorry.

Speaker A: So, uh, you wrote an uh, interesting post recently about sort of scaling a product from 0 to 5000 units. And you mentioned that people love the destination but they ignore the journey. And that's what Executioner creates. Success. So what's the biggest hurdles do you think about A, uh, disruptive technology like VTech and getting it, getting the market to adopt it.

Speaker D: I think you have to understand the journey. And the piece I wrote, I wrote it for a reason. The individual will know why. I wrote it for an agent for a reason. I won't mention it, but yeah, it was, it was a good launch pad in respect that, uh, every product, and one of our, one of our owners will also understand this every. Because he actually raised it the other day. Every product needs a Runway. Look at it as an airport and airplanes. Yeah, we've. We put the airplane on the Runway, which is our product. Now we're gonna, now we need to take. We've built the plane, now we're driving it, taxing it out and putting it on the Runway. The hardest thing possible is then to get it off of the ground. And that's, and that's, you know, any product, including VTECs. So at the moment, the best way I could describe it is we're going down the Runway at this moment time. We're getting some real good momentum.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: Uh, based on that, and there's some good examples I can provide to you, but we've got the momentum. We're not at terminal velocity quite yet, but the front tire is off the ground.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.

Speaker D: Once you get that front tire off, you've got the confidence and Chris will tell you that, you know this, you're seeing where this can really sit in. And there are other part of the world, other parts of the world, we're a little bit further forward where we have got cells, we have got, uh, traction. So that front wheel's off the ground. Once the whole plane's off the ground, then it's about how high, how, how fast and where's the destination. That's when you're talking about what the numbers are looking like. And that's when you go from an early adopter mentality, which is, I don't care which iPhone or which car, electric car, I'll have the first one that comes out if it works or it doesn't work. And that early adopter marketplace has a limited percentage of customers. So you've got to run that, uh, limited adopter space along with trying to get the traction to get an open end to the larger marketplace. And you can only do that by example, by referencing, by proving concept. Uh, ah. And being a squeaky wheel basically gets the oil. And the more you do that, as of as we've done with, certainly I've done with other products I've been associated with over Time, it works. You've just got to be persistent with it, especially when the technology has got so many legs. And this VTEX product absolutely has.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: It's got a great ESG platform for those companies that really have a problem with energy consumption and cost. Also, you know, energy is, uh, an expensive commodity. We all know that. I saw something from distance when I was, uh, back in Australia on the UK Government, previous Prime Minister, ah, turned around and said, let's just turn the fridges off in the pubs. I think it was one of the London papers that said, Prime Minister said, let's turn the, turn their fridges off in the pub when the pub's closed. Because. Yeah, because no one's in the pub. No one's going to have a drink. So why have the refrigerators on? Well, because in the morning it's going to take you 90 minutes to two hours to get them back up again. What we're saying with VTEX is that's the same scenario. This is not really working. 0.6 of a kilowatt is not energy consumption. Yeah. When it's not working, when you need it, it just goes into action and it's still not using energy until it's, it's, it's not like opening a fridge where the compressor comes on and hot air goes in and cold air is then required to be pumped around. So more you use your fridge, the more your energy you're going to use. With this, we're just maintaining an ice block, which basically is the platform for us to chill the product until the ice block, which is also in an insulated container, starts to reduce the, the compressor and the evaporator doesn't come on.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: So ultimately you're not using any energy. So the unit can be working quite merrily.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Which is basically a motor which is making the rotation and, and uh, the, the principle of how the product works. But fundamentally you're not using that much energy.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker D: Uh, so.

Speaker A: Okay. It's a great, great saving. So where does Enviro go from here? You know, you've got trials running with some major European, um, some interest in South Africa, Australia and things like that and some glamorous places.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Where do you see this going for?

Speaker D: It's, it's, I think it's, it's a domino effect. We've got to, as we spread our wings around the world with our partners who have also got relationships, who also have the, the, the foot in the door process to go and speak to some of these companies, show them the product, demonstrate it. And they think that's quite smart. Let's have a trial. I mean the best one we did was just shortly after October. And I can say this because it's all out in the, out in the air now and they'd be happy for me to, to, to publicize it in Italy. Host. We launched the Mark 2 just during that, that, that sort of week, the exhibition. We had various customers that we took out. Um, and we used a company called Signor Vigno. Now Signor Vigno are Italy's largest, ah, wine retailer.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: Of Italian wines. Each store generally holds around about 2,000 different bottles of wine. Uh, they are cucina, so they are kitchen and, and a, uh, a wine retailer. So you can go into their store, you can go and find a bottle of wine with your mate and sit down and have a lovely drink of whatever wine, Italian wine you want. And you can also have a bit of almost Italian tapas style. So genie balls and just something to soak, soak it up and enjoy. So it's very social. Generally the sites are in some grade A places right next to the Ponte Vecchio in Florence or in the Duomo in Milan or down near the Coliseum in Rome. You know, really, really nice sight. And I did a bit of research, as you do, and found out who owned the company. Italian billionaire. So I thought, well, I'm not going to get there. But I did contact the, the md, uh, with the help of a bit of chat, gtp, I, Yeah, uh, GPT. I put a bit of an Italian letter together and sent it off. And within 24 hours he came back and said, we've been looking for something like this for a long time.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker D: Something that will work. And I said, well, I think you found it. And within, within less than a month, we had a unit in there, Milan, uh, store in the Duomo next to the cathedral.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Um, and they said, look, we'll trial it over Christmas and let's see where it goes. Put some success criteria together. Uh, what do they want to see? We told them how much it was going to cost before they, they put their toe in there in the, in the water. And they said, fantastic, that's great. And, and today we're rolling out with them.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker D: So what we've done basically is they had about 15 of the store wines, 2,000 that they could refrigerate. That's it. They didn't have enough. You know, you can't refrigerate. What we've done is Marco, um, the, um, the training in Wine manager for um, Signor Vigneh will tell you that I can walk in the store now. I can chill anything. Anybody can have anything in my store. So even down to, you know, your more expensive wines, you know, anybody can pick slow selling ones off an ambient shelf and say, yes, I've been wanting that one, we'll have it and store it down. Now if someone doesn't want it chilled, which is the, the big thing for retailers is that they're saving 100 of energy because they haven't had it in a fridge for 24 hours or 48 hours or a week.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Chilling away. Because every day that product's in the fridge, your gross profit margin of that product is going to come down.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Because it's costing money.

Speaker D: Because you're costing you money. But no one thinks about that. And they're obviously there's people in, in the organization that will worry about that is usually your number crunches that are in part. But the store manager is not necessarily going to worry about what their electricity bill is. But the group are.

Speaker A: Ah, yeah.

Speaker D: And that's, that's the balance of where we go and who we speak to. We need to make sure that the manager loves this product because it's going to give him, his customers what they want, which is variety. Mhm. It's easy to serve, it's easy to use and actually creates, it creates conversation. When you're going up to someone and saying, look, you know, yes, you picked this wine. Now this wine manufacturer or wine uh, producer says, you know, you should chill it to 8 or 9 degrees. I'm going to do that in, in the PTEX over there, it starts conversation because you don't normally do that. You just take it out of a fridge and give it to someone.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Is it the right temperature? Well, it's been in the fridge, but is it the right temperature? Because when you look at the varieties around, uh, in the industry today, Chardonnays, the Rieslings, the champagnes, they're all different temperatures. All the winemakers tell you they, they prefer temperatures. And you've then got a customer, the customer says, well I always have my Wishbone Angel Rose, uh, at six degrees because it's, it's, it's crisp and it's nice and warm outside and that's how I like it. That's fine sir, I'll chill it to six degrees for you.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it gives people choices.

Speaker D: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker A: So, yeah. Interesting times. And um, it's been a kind of masterclass in patience and strategy. I think what I'll ask you, Paul, for you to hang on, hold the thought. We'll take a short break and then we're going to ask Chris to come back in the studio and join us. And, um, we're going to talk a bit more about, um, the UK market and also some. Some fun questions. So thank you.

Speaker D: No.

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Speaker A: So, Chris, welcome back. And Paul, uh, as well. Welcome back. We're still here in the Studo and Canary Wharf, of course, and, um, we're going to talk a bit more about your partnership between Zest and Envirocle.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: And the VTEC product in the UK and actually how the partnership kind of came about and, you know, what you bring to the table, if you like. So. And we'll get. I'm also going to do some fun questions as well. So, Paul, you mentioned earlier that it's quite difficult to find early adopters for this tech, you know, and also from your perspective, Chris, is it also hard to find distributors to adopt this tech? So, just to hear that, really, what, what is that challenge?

Speaker D: Yeah, I suppose over time, you know, you gain relationships and you've got opportunities to put the product in front of people and we're very lucky. We've got a fantastic investor set in Envirocle and that opens doors, that's for sure, open stores and it's done it in a number of places. Where we were today over at the Conduit Club, where we, we've Had a unit for a long time where we can go and show people in a live environment. Yeah, what this is, how this is working and what benefits it has for the, for the site.

Speaker A: I guess as soon as people see it, then they just go, yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: And, and you know, we showed the guys today the new Mark II enabled. Wow, this is fantastic. And got it straight away. They're also part of the Levy Group, so there's, there's opportunities that will start to open up. It is that one domino down, then the next one goes, then the next one goes and then it just carries on.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker D: But that's the process in the recipe for success really. And uh, you know, I felt when I first got introduced to Chris that their mindset was the same. They understood the fact that this is not going to just Suddenly click to 5,000 units overnight. It's going to take some really hard work. It's going to take some patience, it's going to take some door knocking. And unless you're prepared to go and knock on doors with products like this, give up because you're never going to do it. It's, it's. If you want to go and sell the commodity things that are out there, a fryer, an oven, that's, that's easy. And, and yeah, uh, you know, sales guys are always saying, yeah, this, it's, it's easy because it's a least form of resistance of a sale. When it comes down to I got to talk a bit more about it, I've got to give you a bit more detail technology, it becomes a little bit harder, but once it starts going, those dominoes start to knock down. And I think that's what I saw with Chris and, and their business and that's what got me excited.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I agree. I think, um, you know, rewinding back to when we met Paul and, and um, the product was again at host last year.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: We went over there with a, with a, uh, with a view to, you know, meeting some existing partners and also to keep an eye out for anything that, that we thought would fit with our portfolio. And through, uh, through an industry colleague said to me, chris, you want to go and have a look at that, that unit that's on the FCSI stand.

Speaker A: Right, okay.

Speaker B: Um, go down, have a look. And it was literally from there the same thing from an early adopter brain and a, and an innovation idea and how this could also complement. You know, we do sell wine refrigeration, but also as an alternative when it comes to the space in, in in people's kitchens or in people's bars, having a complimentary product. And as Paul was saying, it's, it's getting people to change their mindset. I, uh, I, uh, I, I link back to the whole gas versus induction.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, when I was a chef, the chef comes early in the morning, lights up all the gas, it's burning away all day, burning energy, doesn't think about the cost. When the induction first came in, he was like, no, I don't want that. I want, I want my gas. And now induction is as responsive as gas. It's a cleaner, you know, it's less extraction requirements, it's a cooler environment for people to work in. So this is a similar thing. It's understanding that you don't always have to do it how you've done it before, of course, but it is getting, it's educating dealers, it's educating end users, it's educating consultants and going back to the support we can provide. We have a demonstration unit, we know we've got a flight case, we can wheel it out, we can go show people how it works.

Speaker A: Okay. It's just on a 13amp, 13amp plug, so it's easy.

Speaker B: And again, if you.

Speaker A: Off you go.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: And if you. Because of the ice bank, if we do unplug it and you take it somewhere and plug it back in, the ice bank is still there.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So again, you know, it's easily transportable.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: To be able to do demonstrations and for, even for event spaces, when an, uh, end user, for example, was going to do some events, it can be moved around the venue to put to the place where required. So rather than having a fridge moved to an area, filling it up with bottles of champagne or bottles of beer, you could take cases of beer unopened on a trolley, have the VTEC next to it and there you can.

Speaker A: Festivals with ipa.

Speaker B: Yeah, so many.

Speaker D: I mean, we've had, Yeah, I mean we've had a couple of, you know, uh, event companies and other people coming in, suggesting some of the horse racing. Ascots. Yeah, they might be bringing in Wimbledon. Yeah, yeah. You know, a storage refrigerator, you know, that, that they put all of stock in. The cost of that is significant. The energy that takes is significant. Whereas you could literally, if you know how many you're going to go through, so if it's 40 an hour, then you're going to have a 2 or 3 VTEX and you've got 120 an hour or, you know, you never have only have one small fridge in the corner for an event. You have a number of them. What we're saying is that you could do this and scale it to the size of the event that you've got. So at the moment, this unit is going to produce you 450 cans, uh, an hour, or it's going to produce you 40 bottles, chilled bottles of wine or whatever an hour. If you want more than that, double it up. But you can add.

Speaker B: It's the change in the mentality. It goes back to the solid top stove. You know, the chef comes in the morning, has to light the Solitop stove an hour and a half, two hours before he needs it, because that's what he does. And he knows that, and he does it, he accepts it. And it's the same with, with setting up for a function or an event with drinks. You know, four hours before you're bringing staff in to fill up a fridge so that it can chill for two hours. And then once that fridge empties, you can't replenish. You've got to call back to the central fridge to get more stock.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it's little, but people do what they always do because that's what they know. And it's just making people stop and think, actually there's a different way of doing this and this kind of product is that.

Speaker D: Yeah. You know, I had one what an industry friend of mine that works for an enormous events and stadium stadia company who turned around and said, don't just think of the operational side as in the service side of it. Think about the stocking side as well. Because we all know in bars, the time you fill bars up, or either really early in the morning or guess what, late at night when no one wants to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Uh, and you know, put the old stock at the, in the front, bring the new stock at the back. It's a real, it's labor cost at the end of the day. So if we turn around and said all you need to do is have the stock there, you don't have to put it in the fridge, just put it there. So when the staff come in in the morning and start serving you, you just chill. Even if you want to stock your fridge, you can stock it chilled through a vtex if you've got, you know, if it's a complementary product.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Or VTEX is a complementary product to, uh, an existing refrigeration, uh, setup. And then, you know, over time, if the refrigerator breaks down or it needs to replace, and you can then think about what do I do in the future? Do I want to go fully 100 just with the VTECs and chill on demand, or do I keep the, the balance of what I've got at the moment?

Speaker B: I've seen uh, setups, uh, in event spaces, for example, where they filled up fridges for an event, then at the end of the event because of security, they've had to break it back down again.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So they've chilled drinks for a few hours to not use them, then they've put them back in a box and taken them back to an ambient space.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: When you think about it and then

Speaker A: put them back out in the morning

Speaker B: and then the next day they go set up another area and put the stuff back in to chill again. And you just think about, but it. Because it's habit. And John comes in at 8 o' clock and does the fridges. That's what John does. But they just don't realize that there's another way of doing it. And you're not chilling back to ambient, back to chill, back to ambient. Just wasting time, wasting money. But it's that early adopter, uh, getting, as Paul was saying earlier, getting the dominoes to fall and getting people to, not to have time to go, well if they're using it and they're seeing success, I want a piece of that. And that's where we're getting to now.

Speaker A: And Paul, from your perspective, I asked Chris this before about um, you know, sustainability and I said to Chris about distributors and we said it, you know, end users kind of driving it. Do you think it's not the same worldwide, you know, is, are people looking at it now not just about capital costs, they're looking at operational costs. It's not just energy, is it in this case, it's, it's labor. It's, it's all sorts of different things.

Speaker D: It is. And you know, even, even, you know, again, it's out there in ether that we've got a couple of trials going in a couple of big named retailers certainly, uh, with Auction and Tesco's at the moment. And you know, they're big operations, their ESG goals are different than the local restaurant down here because of the scale of it. Um, and when you can have, you can, you can give the retailer the option of saying, well, don't have any refrigeration, take it away. Because it's um, an enormous cost. Enormous cost is eye watering and then say, give the choice to your customer. Yes, it's breaking a habit. It's a Bit disruptive. They may have to think they've got to do something different. And I said to someone the other day, I said I can remember, I don't know how long it's, how long ago it is. Certainly in Australia, I, I don't know in the UK but when we had supermarkets with people on the tills M Today we've got more self service checkouts.

Speaker A: Oh yeah.

Speaker D: Than we got people on the tills. Now when I certainly saw that, the first one I saw, oh, uh, people are just going to walk out with stuff. You know, it's going to be a, it's going to be a nightmare. This is not going to last. Yeah but imagine a sales guy that had to go to the supermarket to say I'm going to give you some self out, check out tills and you're going to be able to reduce your staff costs. Not everybody would agree with that but the fundamental is they needed to. That's a hard sell. It's disruptive. They said well let people do it themselves and pay themselves and hope that they paid and they don't walk out with, not without paying. You know all of those things are disruptive things. And I think when you look at vtechs in that environment, uh, we're saying to them look, the money you can save by not chilling, uh, just have it as ambient. The other thing as well is you're going to save 100 of energy because not everybody that walks into a supermarket wants it chilled.

Speaker A: No, no, of course.

Speaker D: Now we, we've been talking this week about supermarkets in respect in Australia. You know it's, it's there you don't have, you don't really have liquor in supermarkets. You have liquor stores next to supermarkets.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: However it's coming in, go out and yes there's age restrictions and we'll be able to be able to manage it culturally. And you say how does it work elsewhere in the world and are things different? Yes, they are here. Obviously there's a few more challenges. Things uh, are put in cages and locked and you don't see everything. And it's not as easy grab and go.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: It's just the circumstances of you know, where we are today. Australia isn't, you see up, you see up on the shelf you take it. But it's a process of saying ambient and give the choice. Does the customer want to take it away chilled or are they happy to take it away ambient? Yeah, if you take away ambient. 100% energy saving. No one's spent any energy. Yeah, of course and if they want

Speaker A: it chilled, they have it chilled.

Speaker D: Absolutely. And as someone said, you know, we've, we've got some test sites over in Australia where we've, we're in liquor stores that there's some high net worth areas, more expensive areas where people don't actually go, go in the store. They've actually got it on a, they'll do it on an app or a Uber Eats or something like that. But even now on that, the app will say, yeah, I'm going to this particular liquor store and I want my bottle of, um, you know, Whispering angel or a bottle of champagne or whatever. And um, I'll actually have it delivered chilled. So that style can just go and chill it. Uber guy comes on and send it off chilled or. No, I don't, no one spent any money then. If it's not chilled, it's 100% saving. But if it's not, it's three minutes worth of a small amount of energy, not 24, 48 hours. Yeah, I said someone a while back, I said it's like driving your car home at night, parking it in the garage and leaving the engine on just in case you want to go. That's the same as I've got a retail store with a load of refrigeration in it and it's on 24 hours a day and probably 9 hours of the day, 10 hours a day is not being used and they're just burning energy for the sake of it. So that's where I think, you know, VTEX makes a real difference and it's going to take time, but those dominoes will fall over and it'll just keep going. And uh, if you want to find

Speaker A: out more about it in the uk, where do they, where do they go? Or internationally as well.

Speaker D: So the good thing is obviously our head off office is uk. Okay. Uh, we're based, we're a uk, we're, uh, a British company, British technology, British invented, it's patented. One, one of the things which is good, um, you want to try and protect it where we can. Um, so the replicators come along, they've got to think slightly differently. Um, so for us we're vocal. That's why we do things, you know, like we're doing and you know, the things that we get ourselves out with. Partnering with the right company companies like Zest, uh, also helps us become that multiplier. I tell you, you tell someone else and it just keeps going.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Domino effect is not just about sales, it's also about who's Talking about the product, how much difference it can make. Um, and you've got to do that. I mean I've been a great proponent, uh, of being involved with the consultant fraternity globally. And I did um, the lunch last week with fcsi and it was, it was great because there was people I hadn't seen 16 years, 17 years, and there's some people that are new and we have to do those things though. You know, that's where the core of where the knowledge comes from. You, you've got to get away from this cookie cutter approach of it's a restaurant so that have a gas and an oven and they're up that fridge and that fridge. We want to disrupt that. We want to say you've got an alternative and you're, as a consultant are being paid to provide your customer with some really good opportunities. Unless you know these things, you can't give it to them. And then suddenly you say, I've got this product. I think not only it's going to save you a shed load of, uh, energy cost, but I think it's going to be fantastic for you in how you look at your wine list, your beer lists, um, being able to provide some with an unlimited range expansion because you've got a vtecs, that's got to be a good thing. That's got to be a tractor. Uh, yeah, not only for your customers, but also for the guy that's selling you the wine. He's thinking, I'm going in now and I think I can sell you all this wine. You don't, in, you don't have to have, um, 12 boxes of everything. You can have one box or whatever you want that you can store. But your range expansions there, that includes increases cells and you know, I think you just, that's where it dominates from.

Speaker A: Definitely. Okay, so we're going to move on to a quick fire round and we're going to try to keep it quick and short if we can. You're on death row. What's your dinner?

Speaker B: It's gotta be roast beef, Sunday lunch.

Speaker A: Love it.

Speaker B: 100. I absolutely love it.

Speaker A: Great.

Speaker D: Oh, uh, me. It's, it's, it'll be a fish chowder, I think. You know, I love fish.

Speaker A: Okay. Not a barbecue.

Speaker D: No, no, no, not PRs on the well. Prawns on the Barbie.

Speaker A: Let's do it.

Speaker D: No fish chowder for me.

Speaker A: One piece of equipment that you couldn't live without at home.

Speaker B: My big green egg barbecue.

Speaker A: Right, cool. Love that.

Speaker D: I got to say too, I mean Chris would get this, uh, I still got my knives that I trained with and I was very, very lucky, uh, recently when I was over in Japan to be sent over to, to a guy that m. That makes the Japanese sashimi knives I've always wanted. Oh, yeah, a sashi sashimi. Nice knife. And they're not cheap. I can. Absolutely not. But, um, always wanted one. I've got one. It's razor, razor sharp. Not that I can't do without. I just, um, I'm pleased I've got one. But my, my, my original chef's knives, I think are, you know, I love just balance.

Speaker A: Mine's always dishwasher, to be honest. It's always on. So. Best meal you've ever eaten anywhere in the world.

Speaker B: Difficult one, I want to say. I'm going to say too quickly. Long clum cartmeal, amazing 20 course taste of menu a few years ago.

Speaker A: 20 course, cool.

Speaker B: The first, I think it was the first eight courses. You don't get cutlery. Fantastic.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Such a great experience. But also I must give a quick shout out to my favorite restaurant in Guernsey when I was over there, which is the Nortique. Le Nortique, which is right on the front.

Speaker A: Right, okay.

Speaker B: Uh, Chef Gunter's had it for many years and I can't remember a particular meal, but every time you go there, it's fantastic and it's got a brilliant table view of the harbour, but I just love it. It was so classic. So, yes,

Speaker A: Paul, Difficult because you travel all over the place.

Speaker D: Yeah, it's a difficult one. And I was going to be a bit more loyal, uh, to the country I live in. So, um, you know, I had the pleasure over time with relationships that I've, I've had and I was taken to this, this gentleman's restaurant a long time ago. And then I had a, another meal there, which was a wedding anniversary meal. And the chef is Mark Best. And, um, his restaurant at the time in Sydney was called Mark.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: M A R Q U E. And if you could see his kitchen, his kitchen is about the same size of this room that we're doing this podcast in.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: And what came out of that kitchen was just amazing. Uh, I think he's an extraordinarily talented chef. Um, he's been in the industry a long time. I think he does a bit more advising these days. The Mark is no longer there, unfortunately, but some of the things that, that he produced out of that kitchen was just mind blowing. And, and yes, I've, I've been very privileged to enjoy some meals all over the world, including, you know, a lot of a. In in Asia. And I think there's some very, very talented people out there.

Speaker A: I put in here tea, coffee, or you can go beer, wine, uh, you know, maybe start with morning and then

Speaker B: evening, go to coffee in the coffee

Speaker A: and then evening, if you're out on an industry event or something, a beer

Speaker B: or wine or do you know what, and this sounds bad, I'll drink anything. But what I mean, what I mean is that. What I mean by that is what I mean by that is I like to, uh, I like to drink for the environment. So a nice meal. If I'm having a steak, you want a red wine. I like, I like a sparkling wine. You know, I, uh, I can be convinced to have a nice whiskey at the end of a meal. I appreciate it and I appreciate the environment you're in to drink the right drink.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: Uh, coffee in the morning, coffee in the afternoon, coffee in the evening. But again, yeah, I've said what Chris has said. You know, those that know me, I'm. They know that I like a good gin and tonic. I love my gins. Um, and yeah, that's my go to. But like, yeah, I'll drink, you know, what's ever put in front of me to some extent. But I think the gin and tonic is my go to at the end of the day.

Speaker A: Last couple, most overrated food trend in

Speaker B: the last decade to buy chocolate.

Speaker A: Oh, I love to buy chocolate. Me, I love it. They always buying it.

Speaker B: But it's like, you know, my brother lives in the UAE and you go over there now and it's just the price of it, it's just.

Speaker A: I know, I love it.

Speaker B: It's just a bit of pistachio chocolate, isn't it? I don't know, it's.

Speaker A: Where have we gone?

Speaker B: I can't get it.

Speaker A: Harrod's doing amazing one.

Speaker B: Yeah. The other one I was going to say that my daughter won't thank me for is matcha.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Don't get matcha either.

Speaker A: That's quite a new trend really, isn't it?

Speaker D: Yeah. Look for me, because I just simply don't get it and I probably get a lot of people. You're thinking about that bubble tea. What the hell's going on? Another one.

Speaker A: Are you two social men? What is, what is bubble tea? No, no, you mean. I mean, but the match. I don't like the matcha either. It's full of caffeine.

Speaker D: It's really bad. Yeah.

Speaker B: When my daughter makes one at home, it Just smells the whole house out.

Speaker A: It's like, oh, so if you weren't in the food. So you can go crazy with this. If you weren't in the food service equipment industry, what would you be doing? It'd be stupid. Whatever.

Speaker B: No, I'll be really straight up. I was, uh, I was so into airplanes when I was a kid. I was in the air cadets and had a really. I was close to going into the RF and I was really into. I. I hoped I was going to sort of be like an engineer. So if you think about it, I'd have probably retired with a great pension by now, so. I'd probably be retired.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: Because I would have probably done 30 years in the RAF and now I'll be living, living in somewhere else, relaxing in the world. But I think it would have been something to do with that. That was what I always wanted to do.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: For me, I think, uh, I've got to go back to sort of my family.

Speaker A: Rich.

Speaker D: My father's in the building industry. Uh, my uncles were in the building stream. My one uncle was a, an eminent architect. Um, so I think probably the building industry. In my summer holidays, I would go down and work and do bits for my. One of my uncles who had a building firm in Bristol. And I just loved it. And I think probably I would have gone that down that way, I would imagine.

Speaker A: Okay, and finally a personal question, but describe your home kitchen in three words.

Speaker B: Traditional.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Equipped, welcoming.

Speaker A: I like that.

Speaker D: Yeah, that's an interesting one. Because, Because Australian kitchens are. Yeah, I've got a very unusual kitchen with various bits and pieces in it, but, yeah, I'd say modern is. It's very clean.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Uh, but also very functional.

Speaker A: Okay, well, that's it. End of the quick fire round. Fantastic. Some great answers there. It's been a pleasure to have both you on the podcast. I hope you both enjoyed it.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker D: It's really good.

Speaker B: Really good. Really good.

Speaker D: Really good to see you again.

Speaker A: Yeah, good. Good to see you after such a long time. We keep in touch on, on LinkedIn. Um, a pleasure having Chris Bing from Zest Food Service Solutions and Paul Harper for EnviroCool VTech in the studio with me, both bringing different perspectives on new technologies and disrupting markets. So, yeah, fantastic to hear. So that concludes episode of Kitchen Curiosity, and thank you to our, uh, sponsors, Zest Food Service Solutions. Um, if you want to find out more about Zest, you can Visit them on zestfoodservicesolutions.co.uk or give them a call on 0800-246-5800. If you want to find out more about VTech, you can go to their quite fun website which is V Tech Cool, nice and simple. So thank you for tuning in and hope you enjoyed this episode of Kitchen Curiosity. If you get a moment, please rate the podcast or leave us a comment. Until next time, stay curious. I've been your host, Radford Chancellor, and you've been listening to Kitchen Curiosity.

Speaker C: Kitchen Curiosity is written and hosted by Radford Chancellor and is edited and produced by Tom Anderson. Kitchen Curiosity is a Sound Rebel production.