Finding The Right Business Partner with Damian Lanfranchi, Ep 204

Speaker A: Hi, I'm James P. Friel.

Speaker B: And I'm Dean Holland. It's time to fasten your seatbelts, boys and girls.

Speaker A: That's right. If you're an entrepreneur who's wanting to take your business to the next level and, ah, have a bit of fun while getting cutting edge advice on your business, marketing and sales. Welcome to Just the Tips, arguably the best podcast in the entire world. I guess that's good, right? Yeah, sounds good to me. All right. That was easy. That was the easiest thing we did all day. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Just the Tips. This is your host, James P. Friel. I am thrilled that you guys are here with us today. We have, uh, we have a very special treat. Uh, I'm super excited about this show. You know, there's, uh, there's something magical when you get the right business partnership. And I know that I talked to so many different people who are trying to figure out, like, do I need a partner? If I have a partner, is the right partner. Me and my partner aren't getting along, things aren't working out, and it's just like this whole, like, topic that I don't think gets discussed enough. But getting it right can add zeros to your bank account and, uh, cause you to not have a ton of stress. And so our guest today is somebody I have a tremendous amount of respect for. I'm going to welcome him on the show in just a minute, but before I do, I see him riding into the studio on his white noble steed. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the studio, the one, the only bearded wonder from the United Kingdom, Mr. Dean Holland. What do you think? Uh, what do you think? Your new trumpets. We replaced the old guys. Yeah, the old guys, like, they didn't really give it as much gravitas as these new ones, right?

Speaker B: Apparently so. I feel like I need that when someone rings the doorbell at my house.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, we'll, uh, we'll see if we can get the trumpeters just to stand there on standby for you. Amazing. How arrogant would that be? Like a doorbell and you actually have people in there who are like, oh, hold on, it's our turn. We gotta like, fire up the trumpets. So. Yes. Uh, so, uh, so I'm, I'm pretty excited about the show today.

Speaker B: Yes, me too.

Speaker A: You know, I think you and I have talked numerous times about people that we know who have, you know, gone into business with people and it hasn't worked out or they're, they have partnerships that just like, aren't meshing and things like that. And then there's like this small percentage of people who seem to have found the right business partner. Or maybe that's not the secret here is finding the right one, but being the right one. And I guess we're going to get into that. Um, but our guest today, Damian Lambfranche. Welcome, uh, to the show. We are thrilled to have you. He is, uh, Todd Brown's business, uh, partner. And, uh, they run Marketing Funnel Automation together. We've had Todd on the show and, uh, we're super excited to have you on the show here today, man.

Speaker C: Yeah, so excited to be here, Dean. And, uh, James, you said Marketing Funnel Automation. That's a whole separate conversation. That's how everybody knows us. Yeah, but I think, like, you're old schooler. Nobody says that. Everybody says, you know, Todd Brown marketing the E5, home of the E5 method.

Speaker A: All right, even better.

Speaker C: We're trying to convert people over. But I know you're, you're an old schooler.

Speaker A: Well, and here I am, not helping matters because I've known you guys for a long time, so.

Speaker C: Yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, and uh, you know, I didn't even have a trumpet for you. So to add insult to injury, that is, that is.

Speaker B: I, uh, mean, it's not, it's not started well, has it here?

Speaker A: It really has.

Speaker C: We start the whole thing over. Just.

Speaker A: Yeah, okay, cut, cut. The problem is, uh, we got a live broadcast, so everybody sees our screw ups here. Um, so, so Damien, I think there's, you know, there's so much that we could dive into here with you today. But, um, you know, the, the, the, the first thing that came to my mind when we were talking about doing the show together was the fact that you have a very successful, profitable, long standing business partnership. And I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with. And um, you know, maybe, maybe just sort of rewind a little bit. You know, what. How did you guys, how did you and Todd, you know, start together? And I want to really get into beyond that though. Like, how did you cause it to work? Because I'm sure nobody's perfect, um, obviously, except for Dean. Uh, and so there's bound to have been ups and downs and challenges and struggles and stuff like that. But you've created something that's enduring and I think something that, uh, most people would love to figure out on their own. So maybe we can unpack that today.

Speaker C: Sure. So I'll kind of just tell you a story if that's okay.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course.

Speaker C: And so, uh, how to get started is not going to apply to everybody because we have, everybody's story is unique. Our story is unique as well. Uh, you know, I've been best friends with Todd for nearly 30 years now. And so we go. I don't know if you knew that, but we go back.

Speaker A: I didn't know that.

Speaker C: Way back to before, you know, when I had my driver's permit. That's 15, 16 years old.

Speaker A: That's amazing.

Speaker C: Yeah. Met, met in a health food store. You know, I was into, you know, weightlifting. I wanted to get into bodybuilding. Todd was in the bodybuilding. You know, he's like five, five and a half years older than I am and so just started hanging out there and then eventually ended up working there because I was like, I hang out there so much. And so Todd was my, my original boss at the health food store, uh, did all sorts of things we definitely should not have done, uh, in retrospect, uh, in that poor health food store. Um, and then, you know, we, you know, we've been best friends over the years and those kinds of things. And then Todd kind of got hooked into this idea of direct response probably almost 20 years ago, uh, and started doing some stuff and he's like, isn't this fascinating? And I wasn't all too interested at the beginning. And then uh, as I kind of went into the corporate world, we decided to build a, ah, software business together to a practice building business for chiropractic doctors. And we started doing that together and then uh, actually started with an offline business. First crazy story. It was an offline business where we literally were like, we're going to done for you direct response. And so it was like, hey, you're Dr. Dean. Great Dr. Dean for, you know, whatever, two grand, three grand a month. We're going to send out like 47 spinal postcards, 33 cranial postcards, 18 DVDs, four hats, three mugs, a birthday cake. And like it was the most elaborate. Like there were literally like 40 or 50 different things sent to hundreds of people multiplied by the number of doctors. It was the most complicated, insane done for you. Direct response fulfillment. M. It was effective, but it was bizarrely impossible to fulfill.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And so we started to kind of bump heads a little bit. And before kind uh, of it took a toll on our relationship or friendship that couldn't be repaired. I walked away from the business and I was like, all right, like, you know, Todd turned it into a software based business. I actually took the Same concept and went into the real estate investing space and did software, automated software in the real estate investing space. And then we kind of, you know, we kind of ran parallel lives. You know, we touched base from here to there, um, you know, from time to time. Uh, you know, my first company thankfully did really, really well. Um, he had launched at that time shortly after, uh, you know, Marketing Funnel Automation mfa, which we still have the URL. It's where we still email from, even though it's. You have no idea, do you have any idea what it's like to go any normal place? And they go, oh, what's your email? And on Damien at Marketing Funnel Automation. Marketing me a car, you know, F U N N E L Automation, like automatic Automation Marketing. Like it's the most ridiculous email address in the world. Which clearly he didn't think about when he picked the URL. But he launched that business. I, um, was doing a bunch of other stuff, uh, in the real estate investing space, sold the company I had was scaling another company. Then, uh, tragically two things happened, um, in Todd's life. He had, ah, his dad passed and then also he had a very fluke heart attack. Shortly after we kind of reconnected and um, just wanted to make sure he was okay. And we'd started talking again and I told him what I was doing and I was buying media at the time, scaling a company. I was like, I've been thinking about taking on some more clients. And he was like, well, he's like, if you ever want clients, he goes, I'll give you as many clients as you want. You just say the word and I'll send people to you. And I was like, man, that's awesome. Thanks. And we talking literally a week later, he was like, well, if I'm going to send you clients, he's like, why don't you run some of our media? And I was like, okay, well that's cool, we could talk about that too. And then a week later he's like, well, why don't you just come like, run this business with me? And I was like, okay. And it was a, it was a very funny conversation because, you know, again, this is a guy I've known, you know, the godfather to his, you know, to his youngest daughter. Like we've known, I know I've known his wife was friends with his wife before they were married, you know, like all this other like long history. And so the conversation was, I was like, okay, well, well, what am I. This is literally the exact conversation. What would I do for the company. Todd's reply, I don't know. We'll figure it out. Just leave what you're doing, right? Just tell I like a long standing consulting gigs. He's like, just tell every. Tell him you quit. I go, well, what would my title be? Whatever you want. We'll figure it out. Just tell them you quit. How much am I going to get paid? Dude, whatever you want. We'll figure it out. Just quit. And finally I was like, all right. You know, I've known him for, you know, over 25 years. At that point, I was like, right, I'm g. Go for it. So, so I quit. And so I've been running MFA for the last seven years, which has been, uh, it's been an adventure. It's been, you know, it's been a lot of good times. There's definitely been a lot of alleys we've had to go through. Um, you know, but we're, we're standing strong on the other side, you know, changing a lot of lives, uh, through what we do, through our coaching, through our training. Um, and, you know, like Todd said when he first told me, he was like, let's do something together. He's like, look, he's like, you know, I have a company, it's successful, but if I'm going to work with anybody every day, I want to work with my friends. So if I can do that, I'm going to do that. Um, and it was kind of a weird thing too, which we'll get in a little bit later. But I had come from a business where I was the visionary, I was the guy running everything. And then to come into another business where we have Todd, who's a very strong visionary, and then to slip into a different role is definitely part of kind of what we. We've had to navigate and figure out and how to get into a really good place, which I feel like we're in the best place we've, uh. Although I wish it took closer to two years, not the seven that it took to get there and just that dynamic. But that's the nature of life sometimes in business.

Speaker A: Well, but that's, that's one of the things, though. I think you're hinting at the fact that, you know, it's not like, easy to do. To do what you've done right, but you've continued to work for it. What, what's been the driving force between, like, I, uh, think every partnership, at some point you just have to say, we want to do this together. Right? Like, we want to do this together because there's so many reasons that, you know, things could go a different direction. And in your first thing that you were explaining with the, the birthday cakes and all that sounded like you guys made that conscious choice. Hey, we, it's better that we do go a different direction. And, but, but the last seven years that you guys have been doing this, you've decided to stay together. What's the, uh, what's the fundamental belief there? Is it, you know, I believe, you know, one plus one equals three. Is it, you know, I just want to wake up and I want to work with people that I freaking love working with. Is it a combination of the things, like, what's the, what's the real glue that helps you guys navigate and. Or I guess is the, uh, the motivation for navigating those valleys that you talk about.

Speaker C: Yeah, I really think this, this might sound a little, a little fluffy, but the truth is, it's just trust. Like, look, at the end of the day, right? Nobody's perfect. We all have our flaws. We all have our dark places that we're working through and that other stuff. But at the end of the day, it's knowing that, you know, if you're gonna do a business and you're gonna have to have other people that you work with that are going to be responsible for the quality of life, the fulfillment of your business, ultimately your bank account, and how you provide for your family, you want to have somebody that you have that level of trust, trust with that even. I'm, um. Even though I might not agree with you, even though we might bump heads, which we especially. I mean, we bump heads very rarely now, but we bumped heads a lot at the beginning just because. Not because even of any, like, deep disagreements, but just seeing business very differently.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: And seeing opportunity very differently. Uh, you know, but it's that level, it's always coming back to, okay. At the end of the day, even if I don't agree with you, I know you're going to do right by me.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: I know that I. I know that you got my back. And you know, and just like Todd will always say, like when we're on a call, he's like, he's like you. I trust Damien with my bank account, my Social Security number. I trust him with my kids. You know, and it's the same thing.

Speaker B: M. Yeah.

Speaker A: M. How do you, how do you, um, when you see. See the business differently or you see where it's going differently, how do you, how do you choose what to do? Like, that's a, you know, it's a real situation that I think a lot of partners find themselves in on a regular basis. Like, I think we should go this direction. Wait, I think we should go this direction. And unless there's, I think, a healthy debate where everybody feels heard, it's hard to get to that point where you can say, okay, this is the direction we're gonna go. Like, how do you guys, how do you guys navigate that?

Speaker C: Yeah. So I think where, where a lot of that comes from is, uh, the understanding your role in the business. You know, Todd has said so many times, he's like, look, this is early on. He's like, the issue is we take these recipes and it's not your recipe, it's not my recipe, it's a little bit of both. And it doesn't really work right. It's just, you know, we got like, it's just, it's just, it's just two things that just don't, they don't go together real well. And so it's not completely mine. It's not completely yours. And I think that's where a lot of businesses, uh, or business partnerships go wrong. And I always joke, I felt, feel like the first couple years of working together, especially again because I've ran my own business successfully, very successful, launched it from zero to a seven figure business and all that. Um, because of that, it felt a lot like uh, that scene from the Office when, you know, Michael Scott's retiring and they bring in d' Angelo Vicker and he's gonna. And there's a scene where like literally Michael still at his desk and d' Angelo's like sitting on his lap like trying to use his mouse. And it's super awkward and it's like, like they're trying to do the same thing. And that's what it felt like for the first couple years because it's like, well, I know how to run a great online business, so do you. And so we're doing a little bit of both. And I think what's happened is through. And I credit a lot of this to the book Rocket Fuel, uh, by Mark Winters, which I love. It's part of the EOS system. It talks about the dynamic between a visionary and integrator where you really start to understand that not only does the brain of the visionary and the integrator work differently, but there's a different dynamic that's required to make that work.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: And if you don't understand that in the relationship.

Speaker A: Mm.

Speaker C: It's Just becomes very, very frustrating. So now it's just kind of like when Todd's like, hey man, I think we should start doing coaching again.

Speaker A: Great.

Speaker C: Explain to me why. Tell me what you want it to look like. And then now you stay in your lane and let me execute and let me figure out how to make that come become, uh, clear.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah, that's, that's interesting. So, so really like clear, super clearly defined roles and responsibilities so that you don't feel like you're stepping on people's toes. Would you say that there's a lot of partnerships where things could probably work, but they don't because both people are trying to do the same thing as the other person.

Speaker C: Oh, 100%. I mean, I think most businesses in general, uh, especially online, you start an online business. I mean it's true offline too, but even more so online. Most online businesses you start as a solopreneur. If there's two, you have kind of two solopreneurs. Everybody does everything. And so you start from this place of everybody does everything. So even as the business grows, you just add more people of everybody doing everything. And sooner or later that just does not work.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: When you don't have individual roles within digital responsibility all the way up to the leadership level, just there starts to become conflict. It starts to become right. When you have more than one vision, that's what's called division. Right. Division. More than one vision. And that's where that happens. So I think it's a combination of that and it's also a combination of the lack of objectivity in the business. It's something that I think we've done, ah, uh, pretty proud of the job we've done in our team where when you're able to clearly objectively define expectations, it's a lot easier to be able to say, hey, James, we're going to partner on this. But your job is sales. You're responsible to bring in five new accounts a month. My job is marketing. My responsibility is to get you 20 new leads a week.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And once it's really clear, then when those conversations come of the business isn't working, it's not like, well, I was up all night and I worked on the weekend and you didn't work on the weekend in. And how dare you know, it's not all that stuff. It's just like very clearly, well, yeah, this is what we needed in order for the plan to work. We both agreed that from this position on the team, we needed this result and from this position we needed this result. Is that. Or is that not happening? And if it's not happening, what's the issue and how can we work through it together?

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really powerful. It's simple, but it's. It's powerful. And I don't think a lot of people consider that because it's like. It's like us and it's our business, and then everything just feels very tangled up and not. Not like, clearly defined. Uh, I think.

Speaker B: I think I would say from an experience I had in 2010 that, uh, I think sometimes you. You throw yourself into partnerships without the experience of a partnership, and you don't really know what you're going to encounter until it kind of happens. You know, in 2010, I. I went into partnership with somebody, and I'd only been in business a year at that stage. And everything you've just said, Damien, about the. The lack of, like, everyone having a clear role and knowing who's responsible for what, that completely wasn't there. And as quick as the business grew, I mean, this was a membership site that grew from nothing to 1400 members at, uh, like 100 bucks a month in 12 weeks. And it was gone nine months later. And it largely went because of this, this, like, butting heads of, like, I feel like I'm doing everything here and what are you doing? And it was just a complete clash, and it went into a real mess real quick. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, so in term, in terms of finding the right partner, you know, you. At the time, it didn't sound. Obviously, it didn't sound like you were even looking for a partner. You know, maybe when you were doing the early days and you're kind of in the health food store doing whatever shenanigans it sounds like you won't talk about on the air, um, maybe. Maybe you were looking for a partner at that point, but later on you had your own company, you were doing your own thing, you had consulting clients, you had all this other stuff. So you weren't necessarily, like, looking for a partner. And, uh, I think there's a lot of people out there who, you know, are kind of on their own path, may not be looking for a partner, but they could benefit from having a partner. Like, how. How would you. How would you think about, you know, talking to somebody who says, okay, like, I'm able to achieve this on my own. Who should consider having a partner? Like, when should you consider partnering up?

Speaker C: So that. That's a good question. So, uh, I could tell you, Let me Start by saying the couple things I wouldn't do. I feel like a lot of times you hear people that partner up because it's like, well, I just, I just didn't want to do this alone. Like sort of this insecurity of.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Like somehow having somebody out. Uh, you know, look, it is more fun to have somebody in the boat with you. It is more fun to get lost in the woods with a buddy than to get lost in the woods by yourself. But when it comes to creating a business that's just a, It's a dangerous. It's, it's. I just noticed it's not really the healthiest place to start. Just kind of, uh, this like, well, you know, you feel lonely and you don't think you could do this on her. I feel lonely. I don't feel like, so let's try to get together and make this happen. Um, I get a little nervous when partnerships start that way in business. Um, I think that part of what. Even though it caused some challenges, uh, for Todd and I, kind of working through a dynamic, I think what, you know, it was helpful that I knew he could run every single part of the business successfully on his own, and he knew I could run every single part of the business successfully on my own. And I think that part of, you know, part of that contributed to that trust. Um, so that's the first thing. Uh, the second thing I would say is I'm a big fan of moving fast, but leaving the door open in a good way. And so I would be much more apt if it's like, you know, these people that are like, these people like, you know, like people who go to, you know, they go like, I went to a conference, I want to, oh my goodness, I met the coolest person. We're going to partner up and create a business. And it's like, it's like I'm a little worried here. You know, um, it seems like there's, it's coming from a level of desperation. And so I would be much more apt to, you know, I like moving really, really fast. But I would be more apt to say, hey, let it be my business. And if so, you know, if. I thought you'd be a great partner, Dean, I'd be like, okay, well here's the deal, Dean. I have this business. Let's partner with it. We'll split the profits 50, 50, and if we can grow it to this amount or after nine months, you'll then vest to a 50 equity owner. But I wouldn't just from the Start. Go like, hey, we're fully partners. We're all. Because it just. It's just a weird place to start. Like, unless you're like, really, it's just too much. That's unproven. Right? I mean, we talk about this, right? Just to take a marketing. And we talk about this in split testing, right? You don't want to. Like, this idea of if you're testing too many variables at once. You just don't know what's working, what's not working. It's problematic, makes it very difficult to. To move forward. And it's the same thing. It's like, man, if I don't know how you are, Dean, you don't know how I am. We don't even have an established business, and we don't even know how to make it. Like, there's just way too many variables that just put so much stress on it. Like, it's different. Like, if you're like, hey, you know, uh, you know, you have a. You know, I have an aquarium, and you sell fish food, and it's like, okay, like, these pieces just clearly fit together. Like, I'm buying fish food anyways. My fish are eating food anyways. You need to sell more food. I have more fish. Like, you know, that's a great place to partner, but when it's not based upon existing business stuff, and it's more just like there's someone else who's lonely and also has an idea, that's when I'm going, yeah, uh, like, slow down, slow down.

Speaker A: It almost seems in those cases, it's also like the blind leading the blind a little bit, you know, where people like, well, I don't know what to do. And they're like, well, I don't know what to do. But I guess together, somehow, we're going to figure it out.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: You know, I don't think before.

Speaker C: You've never done this before, but.

Speaker A: But together, we must be able to figure, you know, out. I just want to take a brief pause here and, uh, acknowledge your, uh, analogy on the fish tank, because I don't know if you've seen Dean's fake seahorse. Uh, no. Yeah. See that little jellyfish? Oh, sorry. Fake jellyfish.

Speaker C: Why can't you get real?

Speaker A: I don't know.

Speaker C: Are you not paying them? Well? Is it things? Things? Jellyfish are not that expensive, I don't think.

Speaker A: And, uh, there's a UK labor dispute over jellyfish compensation, and I think that had a lot to do with it. Yeah, that was what you told me. Anyway, Exactly. Yeah, I think, I think that's a, that's a real warning sign, uh, in terms of like, you know, the early stage. I feel like the startup people, they don't have anything going then, you know, then you have, then you do have legitimate businesses that are going and they're like, okay, I kind of am like, you know, either bumping up against the ceiling or there's something that I, I can't seem to figure out on my own. How do you decide when to, you know, partner up versus, you know, just hire an awesome employee who's like, going to be part of the team but may not necessarily be your partner? Yeah, it's a good question.

Speaker C: Yeah, I, I would always lean against part, uh, lean against partnering up. I just feel like it's just, it's just so messy. It could be. So I'm not even talking about like, legal stuff and all that other nonsense, which certainly can happen if partnerships go really, really south. But just, it's just very rarely do partnerships have really lasting power. And so to, to have your business, your venture tied up with somebody else.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: It just in a lot of ways kind of sets you up for like, oh yeah, three years from now, I'm gonna have to hit the reset button.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Because if it's not this amicable, like, oh, my partner's going to be a, you know, a missionary and you know, in Bangladesh. See you later. It's like, okay, well, whose leads are they, whose buyers are they, Whose website are there, whose marketing assets? You know, like, it's just such a, you know, it can feel like you're, you're setting yourself up for. This doesn't work. It's, I'm just resetting the business.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Um, and so.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you're. So you're bad.

Speaker C: Like, you're like, let's talk about how partnerships work. My answer is like, don't, don't do it.

Speaker A: Well, you know, I think this, I think this is, uh, this is an important distinction because maybe a lot of partnerships don't work because you shouldn't be partnering at all. Yeah. Like, maybe you should find another way of doing things. And uh, so I'm not here advocating that like anybody should or shouldn't partner. I'm just like, my, my hope with this conversation today was for those people who are thinking about it, who are engaged in a partnership of some kind, that they really have their eyes open. Right. To, to like, know what you're going into. Because I, I feel like a lot of the People that, uh, I hear maybe especially at the earlier stages, but I think even later on there's sort of this, this oddly romantic idea about having a partner. It's like, oh, like now that I have a partner, it's like, but this is, this is business. This isn't necessarily like your personal life. And I know why you'd want to be romantic with your partner in life, but you know, it's different.

Speaker C: Yeah. So. So I would say I, I think a partnership can be great when it's not formed out of we need to figure something out. It's formed out of we have stuff figured out and together it can be even better.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Right. Like strategic.

Speaker C: Yeah. Again, you got that fish food. I got the fish.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, and we have a great relationship and we like each other.

Speaker A: Right? Um, right. Yeah. And that sounds more like it was with you and Todd. Right. You had, you were doing all the media buying and the traffic and all that sort of stuff and he felt like he had a need to get more of that. And you guys were like, okay, this, that. So that was really the foundation for you guys, right? Yeah. Interesting. Um, I want to, I want to shift gears just a little bit, but, um, talking about something that you touched on, and that's this whole, uh, EOS concept of visionary and integrator and there's, you know, these different roles for either partners or senior leaders inside of a company where one of them is directing the vision, the other is trying is there to help make sure that that vision gets implemented. Um, can you talk a little bit about your interpretation of the distinctions between the visionary and the integrator and how they can be most effective working together?

Speaker C: Sure. Um, so the very simple answer to the second question first, the very simple answer to how visionaries and integrators can work most effectively together is first by being able to identify who's the visionary and who's the integrator and who thinks like that. There are those rare individuals. I think you might be one of them, James. I'm one of them. Where, you know, you really can be equally balanced as an integrator, a visionary. I can step into a different company and be a visionary. I can, you know, I function primarily as an integrator in our company. I feel like you're the same. I feel like you can be a phenomenal number two in any company, but obviously you're a phenomenal number one as well. Um, that's the first thing, but really what it is is the visionary is really operating at that big Picture right, the visionary is the right. Always looking to the next mountain. They're so passionate about what's happening in the market, the trends and how things are changing. They always have a new idea, they always see a new opportunity.

Speaker B: They

Speaker C: love to start running after mountains and before they get to the top, pick a new mountain and run even harder. Like they just, they're always kind of jumping from those things. And the integrators are more like, let's run the trains on time. Like, like we know where we're going. Like, I want everything mapped out. I want everybody in line. I want to know that all the, you know, all the bells are being rung on time, all the doors are being open and shot. Everything's in beautiful synchronicity. And so they're essential because it's the visionary who really, I mean, it's visionaries, it's, you know, it's the Fords of the world, you know, who, who see things that other people don't see, who see opportunity, who see changes in the market trends, even in just the world, as we do business, as we do life, they just, they have that ability to just look so big. Uh, but without an integrator, a visionary is just a daydreamer. A visionary is just, just a daydreamer. Um, and integrators on the other hand, will get very boxed off and just like, you know, ring the bells, trains on time, go, go, go. And they won't actually lift their head up to go, well, where are we actually going? And does, does that place even exist anymore? I thought we were going to that island. That island sunk two years ago, but I, I didn't even lift my, I've been so bus the trains, I haven't paid attention to it. Um, and so they really need each other, but they're naturally built to not, I don't want to say not get along, but they're naturally built to see the world very, very differently.

Speaker A: Well, they're wired very differently.

Speaker C: 100%. 100%. Um, you know, when we come at a problem, you know, Todd's always going to kind of come up at this super high level and go, well, you know, the market trend is changing and market sentiment is this. And you know, this, this, this, this, this. And I'm just like, listen man, you know, we increase our opt in rate, we spend a little more on the budget, we increase our, like, we, we can do this, we can make the, you know, like, I'm more just like, how, how do we, like, you know, how do we tinker with the levers and keep the trains running. And he's more like, you know, I think we might have to go to a different island. Right, right. And they're both important. But it's. If you don't have that, understand, if you don't have that. Respect is, uh, really the word I'm looking for to understand what a visionary is, why they're valuable, what an integrator is, why they're valuable. Um, everybody gets in each other's lanes. And that's where I said you kind of get that like joint trying to both grab the steering wheel. And so Todd knows, like, we've reached a point, um, where like I know, like when we share stuff at the end of the day, like, it's his vision, even if I don't quite see it, I might ask questions, I might challenge. It's his vision. Um, and at the same time, when it comes to executing stuff, you know, there was a question about, you know, hiring another role and he's like, oh, do you really think we need to hire a person? I said, yes, absolutely. I have a lot of reasons. He goes, that's all I need to know. He's like, that's it. Like, we don't need to talk about it. Like you're going to make that decision. I think the other thing that's really important, this is, this is kind of pinpoint for everybody listening. Uh, James. Where some of the friction can come if you don't understand this dynamic is that visionaries have this very forward thinking, like, why don't we do this? Like, what if we, what if we were doing coaching 365 days, what if we did a conference? What if we released a book every. Like, what if, what if, what if, like they're those, they're just like, they're off there. And integrators are like, they shoot holes in everything.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker C: That's their, their nature is to be like, no, no, we can't do that. No, that's not part of the mission. No, we don't have capacity. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And if you don't respect and understand that dynamic, what happens is there could just be, uh, just a sense of just dishonor, a frustration of just like, man, what's your problem? Everything I come up with, your answer, Damien, is no, we can't do that.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: No, we can't do that. Like, this stinks. Like, I feel totally, you know, but if you don't understand that dynamic and why it's Both those things are important. Um, you certainly can run into a lot of headaches.

Speaker A: Yeah, I could see that. Absolutely. Um, so, uh, so I think the, you know, the, the other question for me is like, when, when is the right time? I mean, maybe the answer is obvious, but when is the right time to figure out who's who in a partnership? Right. And then what happens if you find out like, oh, we have two visionaries here, or oh, uh, like we've got two integrators and no visionary, like what, you know, there's bound to be people listening to this who find themselves in like, at any stage of the journey where if they have two visionaries, is it like, okay, we should just part ways? Like, what, what's your, you know, kind of take on that?

Speaker C: So, so I think the answer is terms of when do you do that? I think you do that immediately. You really kind of explore those. If we have, you know, we're, we're even pre revenue, like, let's figure that out now. Let's figure out how you function. How I function. Um, and then within that, I think it really depends on how. I mean, most people are not pure, like imbalanced. Todd happens to be a super visionary. Like, he is very, very high, Very, not only very, very high on the visionary scale, but he's very, very low on the integrator scale.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Um, I'm higher on both. Um, not as high as he is on the visionary scale, but I'm higher on both. And so I can, I can arguably function in both those roles. And so the hope is that you don't have a situation where you have two visionary, two people who are just so, so, so purely visionary. And the truth of the matter is, odds are two people who are purely, purely visionary, unless they just happen to have the same exact vision, typically are not going to get together. M m. It's just like, it wouldn't even make it that far.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: That is interesting.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, right?

Speaker C: You're like, man, we're gonna sell, you know, Internet marketing training. And the other person's like, I want to sell sweaters to cats. And it's like, I don't know.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: And you're like, okay, maybe these two things don't fit together. Yeah, that's really interesting about the two visionary thing, huh? Uh, um, yeah, I like, I like that perspective. I bet that, I bet that is the case. Have you seen, have you seen cases where, you know, there's two integrators who get together and, you know, one of them might Be a little bit more visionary or something like that, and. But neither one of them, but the company's not really going where it needs to go because they don't have that.

Speaker C: I mean, typically, I think just like, you know, they talk about in marriage, we tend to ultimately connect and attach to people who complement and round out our weak spots in each other and stuff like that. I think the same is true. I think there's a tendency that even though we don't know it, that, uh, subconsciously we sense that other people have the pieces that we're missing in some way. It's like, okay, you know, you're, you're the dreamer. You know, even if I have the language around visionary integrator and all that others, it's like, well, you know, you always have such, you're really optimistic and you have a lot of big ideas. And I like to, you know, get in there and get the stuff done day to day. Like, that's typically how those things form. So I think it's kind of rare that those other things happen where it's like, man, we have, we have two, you know, high ranking integrators with no vision, you know.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Because someone had a vision to at least form a partnership. So someone had some visionary element to them. Otherwise they would just be like staring awkwardly at each other.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, on a personal level, because you're, you know, you are one of those people who could function, you know, kind of in either direction, but you've got a stronger integrator side than Todd, who's got a, you know, stronger visionary side. Do you, um, what, what's it been like for you to just, you know, sort of like execute on somebody else's vision? Because even when sometimes you might have your own.

Speaker C: Um, I think that if I had tried it other times in my life when I was less mature, I think it would have been a lot harder. And not that it hasn't been challenging, but I think that there's a part when you have both those things. There's a sense of relief when you can let one of them down.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker C: When it's like, okay, you know what? I, you know what? I did it before, but honestly, it was a part I didn't really enjoy. Like the whole, well, where's the market going? What's going to happen in the market in two years? I'm like, I don't care about two years. I'm trying to make the quarter, trying to make this the best quarter we ever had. Like, uh, you think about the two Years. Tell me what it looks like later and tell me if there's anything I need to do next week. Um, and so there's definitely a bit of. At least for me, a little bit of that relief of knowing, like, hey, he's going to watch that stuff. Stuff.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Uh, and I can focus on, you know, the other stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker B: That comes through the. Through experience, though. Did you mention that you wouldn't have used to feel that way?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think. I think probably when I was younger, there might have been more ego involved and there would have been more like, well, I need to have, you know, if I'm not driving as much of the vision, if I'm not doing this, um, you know. But again, that's where it all comes to trust. It all comes to trust that at the end of the day, even if I don't agree, I trust that Todd's going to make the best decisions for the business. Even if he doesn't agree with me, he trusts that I'm, you know, there's never, you know, when, when. When partnerships hit difficult points, uh, there can be those questions of, okay, is this person really looking out for the business? Is this person looking out for me? Is it possible they would ever do anything underhanded, immoral, unethical to the business? And those are just conversations that never have happened between us, never would happen between us. And I think that creates a certain level of. Of.

Speaker A: Of trust for somebody, uh, for somebody who's got, uh, you know, considering a partnership or who's in a partnership who may not necessarily have, uh.

Speaker C: We already said no partnerships.

Speaker A: Yeah, no partnerships. Okay. Anyone who's considering a partnership, just drop it right now. If you're partners with anybody, just go in, have a difficult conversation today and end that partnership.

Speaker C: Uh, that's your action step. That's.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's like. What else? No, that's it. That's the only action from today's message. Message.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Um. Uh, and. And they're, you know, they're sort of looking at things and saying, you know, I don't know if this is working or if it's not. What's a. What's a great way for them to get out without creating damage? Right. Where, you know, they may have made a mistake. Right. I think there's a lot of people who, uh, have made mistakes. Now they find themselves in a situation where they don't want to be. Do you have any advice for those people who now know better than they used to and now they see a different way but there's, you know, kind of an untangling, so to speak, that has to take place.

Speaker C: Yeah. So I think that the first place it starts is just with an open dialogue and being able to, you know, if we were partners on, uh, you know, on our fish food business, it's being able to come and just say, hey, James, you know, I wanted to, you know, setting aside a time to talk, right. Like, hey, let's grab some dinner Tuesday night, let's grab breakfast, let's get out of the office, get, get out of the routine and be able to say, hey, you know, I've been thinking about a, a lot of things and I want to see what you're thinking and what you feel like. How do you feel like the business is going? You know, revenue's gone down two years in a row. You know, I, you know, we're not getting projects done on time. You know, I know that you seem, you know, I get the sense you're really frustrated with me, you know, you know, and be able to get, and then be able to eventually get to a question saying, do you feel like, are you confident that things Are you happy with there they Are you confident they're going to change? And if not, you know, what's the best way to take care of, you know, your interest, my interest, our clients interest in a way that's really good and most of all, preserves a relationship that I care a great deal about.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Complete.

Speaker C: You know, and it's, and it's. Yeah. And it's not a, it's not a fun conversation, but I don't think it has to be a horribly painful conversation because odds are, I mean, unless you have a, a partner who's just, just out there, like, yeah, like they're gonna pro. Like they probably sense a lot of the same stuff of man, like, maybe this isn't working. Maybe this isn't gonna work.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: And what does that look like?

Speaker A: Well, and I think the interesting thing with, uh, you know, the story you shared between you and Todd is you guys did have a con. I'd imagine you must have had a conversation of some kind.

Speaker C: Sure.

Speaker A: In that first iteration of things years ago, um, before you were able to even consider having a second partnership together, is that, is that kind of the way that that first conversation went when you guys were figuring out, like, who's gonna take things in one way?

Speaker C: No, we were, we were a lot younger. That. We were a lot younger. Uh, it was a lot of stress. And so that conversation didn't go that way. That conversation wasn't like a, uh, hey, man, you know, life has its ups and downs, and do you think we're going up or down right now? It was. It was kind of like, holy cow. Like, we sent birthday hats to the wrong. You know, we sent Dr. Schwartz's birthday hats to, you know, Dr. Patience. He's totally upset. He wants a refund. $10,000. We only have $8,000 left in the bank. Like, dude, this is a mess. Like, what the heck are we. You know, it was a, uh. You know, the building and the boats on fire. Uh, and, you know, now what?

Speaker A: Yeah, right. So, But. But yet you guys decided to preserve the personal relationship. Like, was that, uh. You know, I mean, you don't have to get into all details here, but it's. But it sounds like at some point there was a decision, and you guys handled it well enough that you left the door open for this possible future you've created.

Speaker C: Yeah. And there was a lot of years, Right. I mean, even at that point, we had already been, you know, friends for, you know, almost 15 years.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so, um, yeah, there's just a lot of history with that, you know.

Speaker A: Right, right, right. Yeah. How do you. How do you, um. How do you recommend people? You know, let's say, you know, okay, I'm. I'm a visionary. Somebody's an integrator, vice versa, whatever. We've got that, you know, complimentary thing, right. You know, I'm selling fish, you're selling fish food. Like, the thing that you're talking about, all of that. How do you test that trust factor? Like, how do you establish that trust factor, um, without taking on too much risk? Like, is there. Is there a way to do that intelligently? Or do you really just have to jump in and be like, okay, here. You know, here we are.

Speaker C: I mean, I think in certain businesses, you can do a project, right? Like, so, for example, if you were doing event management, you could say, hey, let's partner and run a summit together. I got a client, he's going to pay us 20 grand to run a summit. Let's partner and let's see what it works. Let's see if. If we can produce a better result together. Let's see if it's more fun. Let's see if it's better for the client. Um, but that's not always. That's always. Not always possible, but I think certainly where you can do a test, you know. Um, so, for example, we have some, you know, exciting new ventures that we're doing. I Kind of mentioned to you privately. Ah, James. And you know, it was the kind of business where we're able to just say, hey, like, let's, let's run a real world test. Let's see if I like, you know, I like you, you like me, you like our clients, our clients like you. And it feels like a good fit before we start, you know, incorporating things and doing all these other things. Because I just feel like so often and this has happened even in different strategic, uh, investments we've done in different businesses.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: That we've worked with. Like a lot of times, like the deal and the dream can die on the negotiation table before anything is even anything. And so that's why I try to just like, let's just try to make it as low friction as possible. And let's, uh, you know, let's go from there.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Um, and hold on.

Speaker C: And framing it. And that's the thing, right? When you talk about relationship, it's always about framing it the right way. Right. Just like, even in our team now, um, you know, we talk about when we hire, we hire people into trials and so there's no, you know, I had, I, you know, I had a, you know, one of the entrepreneurs we coach inside of our top one group. I was coaching them and I was telling them like, like. And he's like, oh, man, I hate firing people. I go, that's the problem. I go hire people in the trials. And then you don't have to fire.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So if I'm going to engage with Dean, it's like, hey, Dean, I heard you are a phenomenal, phenomenal jellyfish keeper. Here's the deal, right? We'd love to bring you in to care for our jellyfish, right? You come in, you come in. We're going to pay you this amount for 60 days. What we're looking for is the end of 60 days. We want the jellyfish health to be over here, we want the death rate over here, and we want the, the, the number of new jellyfish babies over here. If we can achieve that, that's what we need out of this role, then you'll be fully brought on to the team. But at the end, it's a, it's. There's no pain, right? It's like, hey, Dean, you know, really appreciate your hard work and your trial. Everybody's enjoyed having here. This is where we need to be. And you're actually over here, Dean. So I'm sure, as you understand, like, we need something different out of the role. Maybe there's something else we could do in the future. But this isn't a fit. And that's it. Right? There's nothing emotional. There's nothing personal. Nobody has to go home feeling like, man, I'm a loser. Nobody likes me. You, like, it's just this. And that's why we even talk about, like, even inside of the business, it's never like, this is what we need from John or this is what we need from Teddy. It's like, this is what we need out of this role.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Like, this is not. It's about the road. It's the objective thing. Right. Just like on, um. You know, I'm a big hockey fan. Right. Like, certain positions. You need certain things out of certain positions on a team.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And if they can't do that, then you need someone else in that position. Otherwise, you can't win.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, you're kind of like, slipping into the last thing that I want to share about. You good for another couple minutes?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Okay. Yeah.

Speaker C: So I'm good to the. To the end, man.

Speaker A: Okay. Awesome. So. So I think you're. You're talking about some, uh, things that I think are, like, that integration.

Speaker C: Are you flossing, James? Do you have one?

Speaker A: I always have a squash. Sorry. Yeah. In the middle of the show, whenever, you know, like, there's no wrong time for dental health, Amy. You know, you, uh, got to do

Speaker C: what you got to do, so I can appreciate that. I just. I just didn't think that was something you'd be so open about.

Speaker A: I am very open about it. In fact, one of yada's pet peeves with me is, like, we'll be, like, walking through an airport or something, and I'm like. And I'm like, just like. I can't even with anything in my teeth.

Speaker C: I gotta be honest. Uh, like, I. I'm big on dental hygiene, but there's certain places you.

Speaker B: You.

Speaker C: I kind of makes me uncomfortable.

Speaker A: Okay, well, I'm sorry for you.

Speaker B: You.

Speaker A: Dean.

Speaker B: You just ruined the whole vibe of the show right there.

Speaker C: James, I just. I once saw this, uh.

Speaker A: Is.

Speaker C: I have to tell somebody this. I'm gonna tell you. I. I was just thinking about this yesterday. It was so upsetting. I was once in Target. I was at Target, you know, shopping for the family, whatever. And I was walking out in their Starbucks in Target, and there's a Target employee in Starbucks, and she's clipping her toenails in the Starbucks.

Speaker A: All right, we're not talking about clipping

Speaker B: oh, my goodness.

Speaker C: You know, you're like, you know, we're hanging out, like at, uh, the, you know, you're in line buying ice cream and you're flossing your teeth. Like, it makes me a little uncomfortable. Uncomfortable.

Speaker A: Okay. Well, let's hope that doesn't happen then. Otherwise one of us is going to be uncomfortable.

Speaker C: Don't do it in your new restaurants, man.

Speaker A: I'm just telling you, I'm not even in the new restaurants. I'm not the man behind the scenes toe clipping lady.

Speaker C: I wanted to say something. I wanted to be like, how is this happening?

Speaker A: I probably would have. That's, that's my problem. I, I can't help myself from saying something like, are you really clipping your toenails right now? That's awful.

Speaker B: Um, nobody, uh, listening to this show right now.

Speaker A: Yeah. Ah, I hope somebody's clipping their toenails while they're listening to the show. Listen, it's fine.

Speaker C: That's okay.

Speaker B: A.

Speaker C: You're not like in a Chinese buffet clipping your toenails and listening to the show.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's, uh, that's, that's not okay. So, uh, so, so let me ask, uh, let me ask this question. We're moving into like, integrator sort of territory where you're talking about shaping roles and all this other stuff, right? And we've had, you know, we've had Todd on the show and massive respect for Todd. Uh, I think his, his, you know, way of thinking about marketing is just absolutely phenomenal. But I also am aware that the growth of the company. Right. Has a lot to do with you and being the integrator there. What are some of the things that you see people doing, uh, that are just holding them back in terms, like on the implementation side. Just like you gave an example, every role needs to have success criteria and people need to be hired into trials. There's some high level tips that you think people should be considering on that integration side, not necessarily the visionary side, which I feel like gets a lot more press.

Speaker C: Yeah, so, so there's, there's a couple things. Um, and this is, you know, this comes up obviously, you know, from, from our top one group, uh, when I meet with our top one members and advise them and guide them a lot of times. It's, it's the, it's one. It's the lack of clarity and objectivity of what needs to be done. Right. Most of the people, you know, most folks who have successful businesses, let's get, you know, whatever you're making at least 100, couple hundred grand or something like that. Um, it's not that they're lazy. It's not that they're lacking confidence or skills. It's just that they, you typically, they're lacking strategy and understanding of what to actually do.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Right. It's not like the, you know, the, the, the, the, the blossoming entrepreneur who's like, I don't know if I want to do, you know, karate or teaching parrots to talk. And I don't know if I should even start a business. And I, maybe I need a partner. Maybe I need two partners. Right? Like that's a, that's a whole different mindset. But once you're up and going, it's like, okay, you're in the game, you're doing the work work. And then it becomes about really understanding, like, where do I push? Um, and that's why like one of the things we really emphasize a lot is really that flywheel. Thinking of being able to, you know, it's something that I started saying about a couple years ago that it really takes a long time, a lot of maturity and a lot of years in the trench to be able to get things simple.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Very, very easy to make things. Anybody can step in and make a business, a complicated business, even a complicated business that quote unquote, works to a certain extent. But to make something simple that works is, is an exercise of, of art. It's an exercise of mastery. And so being able to get to a business and say, hey, there really are only four levers in this business or five levers in this business. Um, you know, for us, our flywheel is very, very simple. You know, it's hey, we, we generate buyers because that's what we're really, really good at. You know, that might change, but we've never been a lead gen driven company. We've always been. That's what we teach our clients, that's how we change people's lives is by, by having them master the art of customer acquisition and scale their businesses like crazy. And so our, you know, generate buyers, whether that's through our best selling books, through other stuff that we do. Once people buy books, it's like, okay, we want to get them into a conversation with our strategist so that they can talk about how we can help with them and work with them together. Once we get them in a conversation, then it's about, hey, how do we get them into the right coaching solution for them so that we can work side by side with Them. That's where we see the best results, is if we see the fastest results. That's where we see the most lives change changed after that. It's about, you know, once we get them into coaching, it's like, how do we deliver, um, you know, deliver those results, right? Like, and actually, you know, get that. Get their lives change, get their business change. The more results we generate for our clients, the more our reputation and marketplace awareness increases. The more that happens, the more buyers we get. And you correct this just beautifully, uh, orchestrated flywheel where pushing any one of those levers makes the whole thing spin faster and you begin to feel traction in the business. If you imagine if you were trying to drive a truck that had like seven wheels and like, we're sticking off the side, very hard to get traction because everything's spinning and in weird different directions. And it's the same thing in a business where. And I've done this right, I've run the business where, you know, we were like, well, you know, we have info products, but we should also do a summit. But we should also do coaching and we should do some done for you work. And also, you know, what about this and what about a challenge funnel? We should throw that in, you know, like, like just tactics and strategies and all the stuff mashed up and get to something simpler. That's where you get momentum. That's where you get traction. That's also where you start to get back to that level of ownership. Because then it could be very clear, like, James, you don't need to worry about the whole business. Your job is flywheel too is when we. Someone else is going to generate the buyers. Your job is the more buyers you can get to have a conversation with our people, the better. That's all. You have to eat, breathe, sleep, and think. That's what you need to become an expert at. Um, it's liberating and it's empowering to be able to do that as opposed to, you know, being on a hockey team to be like, well, you need to block shots, make passes, you need to back check. You need to, you know, also rough up their star players you depend on. It's like, dude, I. What do you want from me?

Speaker A: Everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that's. I think that's amazing. Um, Dean, I've been, uh, as per usual, hogging the mic here with all of my questions. Um, you know, I know you're. I know you're busy tending to the jellyfish, but for the love of God, could you talk to Us here.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, you know, this whole conversation, the whole picture I've had in my mind throughout this whole, whole discussion is, is kind of treating any potential partnerships in the same way that you might treat a potential life partner. Like you wouldn't. You wouldn't get married on day one. Right. Which sounds like a lot of. A lot of what, what. What's come out of this discussion in my mind is, is that that risk element and approaching things sensibly, you know, not diving in far too quickly and locking yourself into a situation that is extremely difficult to get out of, you know, and I, I think, I think for me, coming. Coming from this, I think a lot of good things. I think number one, you know, you hear a lot of contrasting opinions about going into business with a friend. You know, is, uh, is the first thing that I think tends to divide people. Some people, like it sound like you said with Todd at the beginning, like, I want to work with. With, you know, want to work with my. My friend and have this incredible environment. Other people are like, that would be the worst possible idea ever. I think you've. You've bought some. Like, there's been some incredible advice. And like, I say that, that, that picture to me is just the same as treating it like a marriage. You know, you're not typically, for most people, it wouldn't be a good idea to get married on week one of meeting a complete stranger in the same way. It sounds like what you're saying. A lot of what you've said throughout this conversation is don't go into business in that same way way. You know, you could really tie yourself into something quite, quite bad if it's not the right people, the right setup, the right situation. So, uh, yeah, no, it's given me. I, I thought about a lot because I've been in certain situations, even just recently where I've contemplated and considered certain elements of this. So, yeah, it's been a lot to think about, I think for a lot of different people listening in on this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, and I think. I think it's almost a challenge of just being able to be real with yourself and to do that soul searching and say, well, why do I want a partner? Is there. Is there some deep insecurity of like, m. Maybe I couldn't be in front of the camera, maybe I couldn't lead a team, you know, and. And I think it's better from a personal development standpoint, just like in a relationship to deal with that. Right. I don't think the right reason to get into a marriage is because, well, I'm afraid of being alone. Like, I think you need to get over that, uh, in an ideal world to be healthier in a relationship. Um, and so. So, yeah, I think it's the same thing, really, to do that soul searching. This is great. Right?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: So it's whole, like, how do we make partnerships better? Don't have partners and. And search your soul for your own deep insecurities and how you fall short in everything you want to be.

Speaker B: That's.

Speaker C: Congratulations. Enjoy the tips.

Speaker A: Well, and, you know, that's it, though, because, you know, my. My goal has never been to tell people what they want to hear. It's to tell people what they need to hear to get a better result. And, you know, it's one of the reasons I wanted to have this conversation with you, because I'm like, he's not going to sugarcoat anything, like, you're gonna say. Say it how it is. And, you know, uh, I think sometimes you just need to hear the unvarnished truth to be able to make better decisions.

Speaker C: We should do an encore podcast where we get partnerships on and we decide who should break up. You know what? You guys don't belong together. Like, this partnership's over. Like, we should do that. Like, just break up. Businesses live on the air.

Speaker B: I think if they hear this show first, they're not going to volunteer for that. They know what's coming.

Speaker A: All right, we'll take this one off the air. So we could sneak it in there and. Yeah, no, I think that would be amazing. Right? Because there's, like, all these, uh, you know, talk shows for, like, couples therapy and everything else. Where's the business? Partnership therapy. And, like, you're like, you know what? You guys suck. Break up. Just, like, just put a big X over them. You know what I mean? So, uh, well, we. We, uh, we got to wrap up here in a second. You know, obviously, I'd love. You know, I'm a. I'm such a huge fan of what you and Todd do. And. And so that I don't butcher telling everybody about it like I did at the beginning when I introed you. Why don't you just share for a quick second, like, where they can find out more about you guys?

Speaker C: Sure. You could just go to Todd Brown, Dot Me, toddbrown Me. Uh, there's a ton of amazing free resources in there. We have a couple free books we can send to you so you can check out, learn more about us. And if you've already heard about us or you're at point that level, you're like, wow, I'd love to have you working alongside me, you know, you know, getting new customer sales day in, day out, scaling like crazy. Uh, you can also just click a link, talk to somebody on our team or even if uh, you think you're ready, apply to our top one mastermind. If you're doing a few million already and looking to scale by a few million or a lot more than that.

Speaker A: Yeah, awesome. Well, uh, and I'm, you know, I'm, I'm ah, you know, not just friends with you guys, but I'm in the top one. Like I freaking think that the uh, education that, that you guys share is just world class. And anybody listening who wants to up level your marketing game, um, just make sure you go to Toddbrown Me. Damien, thanks so much for being here for putting up with me, uh, and Dean and the artificial jellyfish and all the other stuff. We uh, we appreciate your wisdom. Uh, for our guests, uh, and our listeners. Thank you guys for being here. Um, we appreciate you a little shout out to Zhang Zhao. And uh, this is James Be Frill signing off for me and my co host, Mr. Dean Holland. We will talk with you guys next time. Later everybody.

Speaker C: Later guys.

Speaker A: Thanks for tuning in to Just the tips where we believe business should be profitable and fun. For show notes, links and other information on our guests, Visit just the tipssshow.com for more information on how to connect with Dean Holland, visit deanholland.com and if you'd like to go from being a hustling entrepreneur to an effective CEO capable of running your company without being stuck in the day to day, visit me for free training and resources@jamesbfriel.com our theme music is Happy Happy Game show by Kevin McLeod, licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0 license.