Leading Through Energy Affordability | From Customer Service Issue to Business Crisis - Ben Nathan, E Source (S5:E5)

JUST POWER PODCAST Leading Through Energy Affordability | From Customer Service Issue to Business Crisis (S5:E5) Episode Transcript: Ben Nathan, Director of Affordability and Equity, E Source CAROLYN PARRS: Something is shifting in how the utility industry talks about affordability. It's moving from a customer service issue to a strategic imperative. It's showing up in boardrooms, in rate cases, in regulatory proceedings, in ways that we just haven't seen before. So the question now is whether that shift is producing real change or just better-looking plans.

Welcome to Just Power. Hi, I'm Carolyn Parrs, and today I am welcoming back Ben Nathan. He's the Director of Affordability and Equity at E Source, and I love having him on because he's so smart. Ben works with utilities across the country on exactly this challenge - how to build strategies that close the gap between struggling customers and the help that exists, or even can exist.

He's got data, he's got perspective, and he's not afraid to say what is working and what isn't. So welcome back, Ben. BEN NATHAN: Great to be here, Carolyn, and again, an honor to follow other nationally recognized experts that you've had on this important series focused on energy affordability. CAROLYN PARRS: Thank you so much, and you're in good company.

So I'd like to start with the scale of the affordability crisis - and I'll call it that - that you're seeing from E Source's perspective. You did a nationwide customer survey in February, and yes, it confirmed that bills are rising, people are making sacrifices, and many are expected to be disconnected soon. Yet awareness of available programs still remains low. Tell us about your survey and what that gap says about where the industry actually is right now.

BEN NATHAN: Sure thing. So at E Source, as you mentioned, we work with electric and gas utilities across the United States and Canada. Specifically, I lead a lot of our work around helping them strategize and implement programs and offerings for their customers - to help them lower their bills, or help them better manage their energy use or costs. In that capacity, we are constantly fielding surveys of customers across the United States.

We typically survey 500 to 1,000 households that are considered low to moderate income - making whether it's $50,000 or $75,000 in their annual household income. We asked them all kinds of questions about their ability to afford their bills, about any financial stresses they're facing, about their interest and awareness in utility programs or offerings that can help them reduce or better manage their energy use and costs. As you mentioned, we fielded a national survey in February.

We really consider it to be a solid annual pulse on customer perspectives, on their pressures, and on the affordability crisis, as you said. We conduct these surveys regularly throughout the year, year over year. So we're able to see what the trends look like. And I'm sorry to say, it continues to get harder and harder for these customers we're surveying.

So to put some numbers on it: almost 40% of customers we surveyed, again just a few months ago, say that their finances in general are worse than they were last year. That's a broader pressure - we're not just talking about utilities or energy costs. 60% of the customers we surveyed reported feeling financial stress paying their utility bills. We often hear the term "energy insecurity" - that's really what we're talking about there.

There's an emotional, mental component around stress. 62% of the customers we surveyed reported having higher utility bills year over year. And we know that energy costs are outpacing inflation now, so it's a particular stressor for these households. A third of customers we surveyed said that they are cutting back on food and other household necessities to pay their utility bills.

Again, a pretty striking example of that energy insecurity. And as you mentioned, almost half of the customers we surveyed said that they expect to either be disconnected or receive a warning that they're going to be disconnected for non-payment of their utility bills in the next 12 months. CAROLYN PARRS: That's one in two people. That's gone up - we were hearing one in three.

Wow. BEN NATHAN: Yes. Pretty shocking. These numbers are going up.

The stresses are getting more intense. To no surprise - if the amount of assistance that utilities are able to offer, if the amount of government assistance they're able to offer is either flat or declining, and costs are going up, these kinds of results are what you would expect. CAROLYN PARRS: Yeah. Wow.

So in our show too, we had some voices from people in the Colorado area - real people just saying what's going on. And there was one frustrated person who said that the utility programs seemed to be stretched thin right now. She called up a utility on the first of the month, like she was told to, before 8:30 a.m.

- and they said they were out. That's how she said it. I'm not sure what was out, maybe the funds. So here's a person who is on top of it, looking for help - it's not just someone who's not in the system or is having trouble navigating it, which is a whole other issue.

There's a need, and then there are also barriers to filling that need. So what's the most consequential barrier you see standing between an eligible customer and the help they need? And who's responsible for removing it, especially in these uncertain times? BEN NATHAN: Yeah.

Well, as much as we hear stories like that customer's - and we often also try to capture their voices and interview customers based on their experience beyond just that survey work - as much as we hear that problem you described, of what I'd call oversubscribing to a utility program like bill payment assistance, across most of the country we actually see the opposite problem. A lot of programs that are designed to provide free or steeply discounted affordability opportunities - like energy efficiency, weatherization to lower household energy use, or energy assistance with direct bill payment assistance - we see undersubscription across the board.

A lot of utilities have the opposite problem, and a lot of that is driven by what we see as barriers. The biggest one being awareness. That same survey we conducted in February found that 80% of eligible customers - those whose household income would qualify them to participate in an energy assistance or bill payment assistance program - have little or no familiarity whatsoever with the existence of such a program offered by their local utility. That is a shocking lack of awareness.

CAROLYN PARRS: That's a communications problem! Okay, if you're a utility, you need to call me. I'm just going to say we can help you with that at Mind Over Markets - that's just a shameless plug there, because customer response, awareness, program expansion, and letting people know about that - that's what we do. So, Ben, why is that happening?

BEN NATHAN: So what we see is - we try to dive into where that awareness is falling short, with whom, and how to overcome that barrier. One thing we're seeing, and this is based on different research including surveys and what we call ethnographic interviews - really trying to understand the experience and feelings of a customer in terms of their interaction with the utility - is that the older the customer is, typically the less aware they are of these kinds of programs and the less they believe they're eligible to participate, even if they are eligible.

CAROLYN PARRS: I think that's a combination - it's almost like not even looking, or just giving up on the system on some level. BEN NATHAN: Yes. So there's a generational divide that we see over and over again in our research. And I think everyone needs to pay attention to this, because when we're thinking about how to serve the next generation of customers - or our existing customer base - those kinds of age considerations really need to be taken into account.

We can design targeted, specific marketing campaigns, messaging, maybe tailored messengers to get the word out on these programs. And when I say messenger, that's an important factor - because in our research, over and over again, we find that one of the leading, most trusted sources of information about these programs and offerings are family, friends, and trusted local community members, whether those are organizations or even individuals. We hear all the time from our clients that they know specific individuals in the community who can serve as champions for their programs, help get the word out, and drive enrollment.

And if those individuals can be compensated for that work, we see that as really industry-leading - because that is a valuable relationship that should be appropriately compensated and rewarded for that interfacing and enrollment effort. So these are the kinds of barriers and opportunities we see to overcome. CAROLYN PARRS: Yeah. You know, years ago J&J - Johnson & Johnson - faced a barrier reaching pregnant women in certain neighborhoods who weren't coming in for doctor's appointments.

There were real barriers to getting there. So what they did is go into the neighborhood with a pink van - they did it right there, mobile, traveling through the community. And it really worked. So, can't we do that?

And I'm sure it's being done on some level - I think I read something about that, where they actually go into the neighborhood, maybe with solar panels on the car, and just be there. BEN NATHAN: I'm so glad you brought up an example from another industry, because that's exactly the kind of out-of-the-box thinking we need around energy assistance and energy insecurity. To your point, we do see utilities increasingly walking the communities, having vans out there, signing up and enrolling customers, driving awareness, working with local institutions, working with faith-based institutions as real hubs in the community to get the word out on these offerings and help enroll customers in these transformative programs that they are eligible for and deserve to participate in - programs that can really transform lives.

CAROLYN PARRS: Totally. Like, get the pastor to put it in his or her sermon - make it part of the community's benefit. There are so many different ways to do this. I love this.

It's just thinking outside the box, some innovation beyond what we normally do. Maybe it's inside the bill - I've done some of those in my own communications work. BEN NATHAN: Still an important channel for getting the word out. But we need to think of all the different ways we can very cost-effectively reach customers.

And not only drive awareness - which we see as the critical barrier - but to clearly explain and communicate eligibility, depending on the program. These programs can be very complex and opaque to navigate. The clearer a utility or another assistance provider can be about guidance, eligibility requirements, and what the customer is actually getting out of it - and what the utility is getting out of it - the better. Because there's also a lot of perception of scams out there, and that is an unfortunate reality we live in.

A lot of utility customers don't trust that a program offering free weatherization for their home or free bill assistance is legitimate. It seems too good to be true. That's a big barrier too. So figuring out ways to increase trust, transparency, and clarity around these offerings could really overcome those barriers significantly.

CAROLYN PARRS: Totally. We are in a trust recession. And privacy is a big deal on so many levels now, even more so. All of this plays into this problem.

So, it's not an easy one to solve, but it can be solved with some strategy - getting the community involved, getting champions inside the community. There are many ways to do this. And I think it's going to get more challenging, especially in the world of AI. We're going to see more and more machine learning and integration of that in the utility market and beyond.

The real human experience behind all of this is going to matter even more. CAROLYN PARRS: So, next question: more utilities are now being charged with building comprehensive affordability frameworks - new KPIs, layered offerings, formal plans. It's happening in real time, but there's a real difference between seriously making that happen versus just responding to political pressures along the way. So what does a credible affordability strategy actually look like?

And what separates the utilities that are getting it right from those that maybe haven't put it at the forefront? BEN NATHAN: That's the million-dollar question to someone like myself who's working in this space. And, you know, I think first of all - most states across the United States and most utilities don't have any kind of formal affordability strategy or plan, or established goals and KPIs, as you mentioned - key performance indicators, ways to measure their progress. It's just, not for any lack of trying - it's a new, emerging concept for a lot of organizations across the country.

And it has become front-page news. It is changing elections. It is being taken extremely seriously by the utility industry. So first of all, what forms a credible plan is even the existence of - or movement toward - one.

And considering that we aren't seeing a lot out there, I would say it would be disingenuous of me to suggest there's a clear best practice or best plan. But we are seeing a number of utilities that are making real progress toward developing more holistic plans. What we mean by holistic is this: utilities and the partners they work with locally - called community action agencies - offer a wide range of programs and offerings, different ways that customers can reduce their energy bills or better manage their energy use.

There could be several, there could be ten. There could be programs that help customers participate in clean energy offerings like community solar gardens. There are programs that help customers weatherize their homes and get energy efficient appliances. There are programs that provide direct bill payment assistance, income-based discounts.

Maybe there are payment plans that help customers pay off unpaid bills over time. Few utilities group all of these together under one umbrella - which would help utilities better connect customers to a variety of programs they may be eligible for, that could be stacked on top of one another. It would allow them to apply metrics to more holistically look at the affordability challenges in their service territories and gauge whether they're making real, meaningful impact. By grouping that into one plan or portfolio - that is what we see as an industry best practice.

And as utilities move toward that, we're certainly looking forward to highlighting those that are doing it. CAROLYN PARRS: Yeah, so what I hear you saying is it's really about making a concerted effort around a holistic affordability framework. This was often all tucked into customer service or customer experience. And now there's a whole other level - it's a sector that, for the next five to ten years with our transition, is going to be increasingly important.

I'm thinking maybe a Chief Affordability Officer - right? Maybe a new position. Something like that. I'll volunteer for that one.

BEN NATHAN: That may be the direction we're heading in - new organizational structures, new teams set up to better manage this across these traditionally siloed departments and teams at utilities. That would certainly be something worth highlighting and impressive movement. CAROLYN PARRS: I love that. And that encompasses all of those layers, because there are so many customer segments.

To put them all in one department, unless you have sub-departments, is a lot to handle in this energy transition. Your audiences are so different and have different needs. BEN NATHAN: Yeah, and I'll say that's more of an internal view of what innovation looks like. Externally, we love one-stop shops.

That is - who doesn't? There's a reason that Walmart is the biggest company on the planet. It is one place where you can get everything, and customers love that. There's a reason Amazon is so popular.

The more we're able to provide a one-stop shop experience for customers who are struggling to afford their energy bills - to apply to a wide range of utility or other programs - the better. That would address a significant administrative burden for customers, which is really a barrier to program uptake. The more we consolidate this work, the more we can offer that one-stop shop experience. CAROLYN PARRS: Okay, love it.

All right, let's move on to the topic of the decade, which is data centers. They're one of the fastest-growing loads on the grid, and they're increasingly being called out for affordability impacts on the communities that are hosting them. You're collecting examples of community affordability agreements that utilities are negotiating - what were called community benefit agreements in the Biden era. What does a genuinely fair agreement look like?

And are any utilities out there getting there in these types of negotiations with the communities in their territory? BEN NATHAN: Yeah. So as we're learning more and more about the impacts of local data centers on the local utility rates that customers are paying - as we're developing a better understanding of the kinds of impacts these large load customers will have - we're increasingly seeing utilities enter into more robust arrangements, agreements, and commitments with those local data centers.

Not only around how much the data center will pay for its energy, and these are significant energy users, but also how much they'll contribute toward grid upgrades that are required, maybe how much they're generating on-site versus drawing from the grid. We're also seeing affordability-focused agreements, as you mentioned. These could be contributions by the data center - or the company operating the data center - to energy assistance funds that would go specifically toward qualifying customers in the community, direct bill payment assistance.

Funding for energy efficiency programs for qualifying customers in those communities to help reduce energy use. We're seeing workforce development agreements. We're seeing a wide variety of what you might call concessions, or commitments, to hopefully meaningfully address the long-run impacts of these data centers on the community. And given how new this is, we don't know how it will play out in the long run.

But we do know - based on national survey data - that customers overwhelmingly, as of this point, do not fully trust that data centers and their operators are going to be paying their fair share compared to the energy they're going to consume and the grid-wide impacts there may be. So as you mentioned, we're increasingly collecting examples of more and more agreements and commitments that our utility clients can use to benchmark - what they're looking at in their negotiations versus peers across the country.

That could be in terms of dollar amounts from comparable data centers, or what kinds of things are included - bill payment assistance, energy efficiency funding, workforce and local economic development. CAROLYN PARRS: I haven't heard that. That's fantastic. I've heard many agreements - water agreements, promises of jobs that are kind of baked into the build, a lot of economic benefits and tax benefits - but energy affordability, efficiency programs, things that really drill down to the folks who need the help right now?

That's like sub-agreements, really drilling down to the community level. I love that. And it's so important to do it right at the negotiation stage, at the beginning when you have the most leverage. Back to that affordability department - this is part of it all, negotiating with the big players when these data centers come up.

BEN NATHAN: Yeah, exactly right. CAROLYN PARRS: So I love that that's happening. Thank you for sharing that. Okay - more than five and a half billion dollars in outstanding customer debt reported in 2025.

That's a lot of money. And the customers who need help outnumber the ones who are getting it. There's a growing gap. Are we approaching a tipping point?

And what happens if the industry doesn't get ahead of this? BEN NATHAN: Yeah. Well, as much as myself and my organization, E Source, are looking to do the right thing and help disadvantaged and struggling households - at the end of the day, our clients are utilities, and utilities are businesses. As much as those businesses want to be the best company for their customers, they are businesses.

And where this intersects is that these growing customer arrearages - the amount of debt that utility customers are in - are really starting to hit those utilities' bottom lines. And therefore, it is in these companies' best interests to help their customers afford their utility bills. So this amount of debt - the billions, a lot of which grew during COVID when a disconnection moratorium was in place across most of the country - a lot of these debts continued to grow, and they continue to rise.

And that debt is impacting utilities' abilities to invest, operate, keep growing, and turn a profit. This is a significant issue for utilities. The better they can understand what kind of debt they have and compare it to their peers, the better they can manage it and identify ways to help their customers pay it down - which is financially risky for those utilities when it goes unaddressed. So to do that, we conducted an arrearage benchmark survey late last year.

We had around 35 utilities participating across the U.S. and Canada. It gives our utility clients a better idea of how their debt compares to their peers, who's meaningfully drawing it down, and what strategies are helping customers get current.

And again, this is not just an issue of helping our less-advantaged neighbors pay their bills. This is really a business imperative. CAROLYN PARRS: Totally. We have to have a healthy utility through this transition - that's going to be so important.

And this is a big piece of it, a big chunk, which is also a motivator to take positive action. And this survey at least gives them a sense of how they're stacking up with their peers. What did you learn? What surprised you most?

BEN NATHAN: Yeah. Well, I think what was interesting - not only through this survey work, but through highlighting what certain utilities are doing effectively - is that we've really found, increasingly, that the amount of time a customer has accrued debt before it becomes unmanageable has gotten much shorter. So maybe a few years ago, if a customer was unable to pay their utility bill for three months, they might stand a chance of being able to pay that back over time through a payment arrangement with their utility.

That threshold has really dropped to one or two months - at which point a customer is very unlikely to get out of debt or get current again on their bill. Because of these broader challenges around affordability in this country, and rising energy costs, it is just becoming increasingly perilous for a customer to fall into debt. As that window gets shorter, missing a single bill may put a customer in a situation they really have trouble coming back from. And that puts the utility in a very difficult circumstance as well, if that's happening more widespread.

So we've been doing some really interesting research into a customer's ability to get current and get out of debt - how much time that takes, what kinds of priorities customers have in terms of which bills they're most likely to pay first, whether it's rent, car payments, utility payments, or healthcare payments. These insights are really valuable for better understanding customers and identifying ways to help them get out of debt - or, more importantly, proactively keep them from getting into debt in the first place.

Getting ahead of a crisis. Identifying customers who have struggled before and making sure that they are aware of and receiving help before they fall into another crisis that they can't come back from and fall into insurmountable debt. The last thing utilities want is a customer disconnected for non-payment. Avoiding that outcome is what everyone in this situation wants.

CAROLYN PARRS: Right. So getting to them sooner - way before it compounds into two, three, four months - that's the key. Solving it or helping solve it right up front as much as you can. So that's a really important distinction.

What surprised you most from what you learned? BEN NATHAN: Yeah. You know, one thing that stood out - when we did this survey, we asked utilities how many of their customers are currently receiving financial assistance. And it was so far behind the number of customers who were currently behind on their bills.

You said it best: there is this remarkable gap between customers who need help and customers who are getting help. That gap was pretty alarming. And again, it speaks to what we find in our other research around awareness and perception of eligibility. The billions in outstanding debt - a lot of which utilities will have to write off and will not recover - were pretty shocking numbers.

And for a lot of utilities, this has been their reality for the last five or six years, again largely because of COVID. But we don't know how sustainable this is. You hear about issues of debt and deficit on a huge scale - when we think about the national deficit, economists warn us it's unsustainable. Utilities are very large, important organizations, but that can shift.

There are acquisitions, defaults, and bankruptcies. Things can change dramatically, quickly, when you've got this amount of debt that could be meaningfully addressed through creative strategies. CAROLYN PARRS: Okay. And one of those creative strategies that you all champion is helping customers use less energy - energy efficiency, especially given the transition and data centers and climate-related disasters.

Weatherization, demand response. So how do we make the case - and maybe you're already making it - that this kind of demand-side investment is essential infrastructure right now, not just a nice-to-have? BEN NATHAN: Yeah, absolutely. Utilities are increasingly looking at their customers as increasingly valuable energy resources in themselves.

The more a utility customer can save, the more they can produce energy through solar panels, the more they can store energy through batteries - the less money a utility has to spend on a new power plant or new grid infrastructure. In this resource-constrained situation, in this affordability-focused political atmosphere and economy, customers are more valuable than ever to utilities. So there is a win-win here. That is the premise of the whole thing.

CAROLYN PARRS: So it's not just a one-way street. This is kind of going both ways, right? There's a communication - even a partnership of some level - that happens with their customers. BEN NATHAN: Yeah.

And you know what we hear a lot? Customers who get weatherization upgrades in their households report more than anything - beyond just the energy they may save and the costs they may save on their bill - they will often lead with: "This made my home so much more comfortable. My quality of life has improved. My kid is not cold and can focus on schoolwork.

My health has improved, my asthma - I had that before when my home was getting all kinds of dust and infiltrants into it when it wasn't weatherized." There are these multitudes of benefits for customers who participate in these programs. And of course, that important resource that customers serve to utilities. It's really a win-win.

CAROLYN PARRS: Okay, that is a win-win. So, thank you, Ben. You have given us a clear picture of how serious this actually is - and how it's not getting better on its own unless we make some real, serious changes. So in closing - what would it actually mean to solve this?

And do you believe the industry has the will to get there? BEN NATHAN: Yeah. Well, first of all - there is a federal program, the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program, LIHEAP. This is the single largest pot of money that goes toward assisting income-qualified customers to pay their energy bills.

LIHEAP has been proposed as zeroed out by the Trump administration in both the first and current administrations. Thankfully, there are champions in Congress who have sustained the funding for that program. But without that lifeline - that federally provided lifeline that we all pay toward as American taxpayers - utilities will be in real trouble drawing down those outstanding debts and making sure customers are staying current on their bills. So we hope - and we know that utilities have many champions going to Capitol Hill, lobbying to maintain or increase funding for LIHEAP.

I think success would look like increasing amounts of funding for that program, which has pretty much remained flat over the years. And as I heard your past guest Diana remark, it is an outdated program. It needs more funding. We are all so dependent and reliant on that funding, as well as on funding for Medicare, Medicaid, and food stamps.

This is all systematic. I think I've mentioned this on your show before - we are all part of an interconnected system in which the folks who make the least in our society, or who are struggling most, we are reliant on them surviving and thriving in whatever way they can. And a lot of that means us chipping in. I would hope that utility leaders across the industry really see that as more and more of a business imperative, and that they will lobby.

These are large, powerful organizations. So success would look like more funding for these programs, more uptake of these programs, fewer barriers to customers enrolling. And as utilities begin to develop more robust, comprehensive plans - they're going to come up with goals that they seek to meet across their affordability program portfolios. When they reach those goals, we'll see what that looks like.

It could mean meaningfully reducing disconnections. When we survey customers, seeing a drop in the number of customers who report stress and insecurity around their utility bills. We're going to see happier customers who trust their utility. And that's what utilities want to see.

We have interviewed many utility customers - some who are deeply unhappy with their utility experience, and some who are really happy with their utility service and the way their utility treated them. When our utility clients hear those interview clips, it is a very different reaction. Everyone wants their customers to be happy. They want customers to like doing business with them.

Every company relies on its customers. So this should really be a win-win. Utilities should be genuinely invested in making sure that their most struggling customers have a positive experience and stay healthy and on top of their bills - so that they can avoid some of these really negative outcomes that we see from energy burden and energy insecurity. So I don't know exactly what success looks like, but I think we're moving in the right direction.

CAROLYN PARRS: I love it. And I always end the show with - we're all in this together. Which is what you're saying. That we rely on each other.

We're actually a human ecosystem. We all rely on one another. And when something struggles or falls off, it has an impact on everyone. We don't live in silos.

So yes - when you recognize that it's a win-win when we help each other along the way, that's the insight. Thank you so much, as always, for joining me. How can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about you and E Source and all the good work you're doing? BEN NATHAN: Absolutely.

My email is ben_nathan@esource.com - E-S-O-U-R-C-E dot com. Happy to talk. We primarily work with utilities, but anyone working in this diverse and complex industry - we are happy to chat with and work with, especially around these critical issues of energy affordability and equity.

It has been a pleasure and an honor, as always, to talk with you, Carolyn. CAROLYN PARRS: Thank you so much. You are truly an advocate. So I think it's fair to say that something is shifting in this industry.

The question I keep coming back to is whether that shift can produce real results. But I'm feeling better knowing that people like Ben are doing what he's doing - and others who have been on our show, who are willing to say clearly what's not working, what is working, and what it actually takes to close the gap. Ben, once again, thank you so much for bringing all of that to Just Power today. It's exactly the kind of conversation this series was meant to be.

And I want to thank you for listening. If this series is giving you useful frameworks, real honest data, and the kind of straight talk that you don't always get in industry spaces - the best thing you can do is subscribe. Subscribe to Just Power. And if you're feeling really generous, leave us a review.

I would love that. And share this episode with someone in your world who might be working on these challenges - or maybe even experiencing some of them. Because the more people who are having conversations like we did today, the better the chances of actually getting this right. Because we are all in this together.