Leading Through Energy Affordability: An Open Door Isn't a Seat at the Table (S5:E10)

JUST POWER PODCAST Leading Through Energy Affordability: An Open Door Is Not a Seat at the Table (S5:E10) Guest: Jolette Westbrook, Director and Senior Attorney, Regulatory Solutions, Environmental Defense Fund Carolyn Parrs: Energy regulatory proceedings are open to the public. Anybody can walk in, including you. But Jolette spent eight years as a utility commissioner in Massachusetts, and she'll tell you an open door is not the same as a seat at the table. Welcome to Just Power.

I'm Carolyn. And this is our series, Leading Through Energy Affordability, where I ask a central question: what do credible responses to this moment in energy affordability look like? My guest today is Jolette Westbrook, and she has a vantage point that is very rare. She sat on both sides of the table - as a utility commissioner, and now as a director and senior attorney of regulatory solutions at the Environmental Defense Fund, where she works to change what communities can actually bring into that room that sticks.

So our conversation today is about who has a voice, who gets heard, and how regulators can build a more affordable and equitable energy system. Welcome, Jolette. Jolette Westbrook: Thank you very much. I am glad to be here because conversations like this are so important.

We're in a very transitional stage in our energy development and we need to make sure that people understand what is happening and how they can be heard. So thank you. Carolyn Parrs: Thank you for saying that. So eight years as a utility commissioner means that you presided over proceedings where community voices were unrepresented.

Looking back, how often did the record you ruled on actually reflect the people most affected by your decisions? Jolette Westbrook: That's a great question. And let me say that certainly throughout my career as a commissioner and even before that as a hearing officer at the department, there were intervenors who represented communities, environmental interests. So we did have some voices in the space.

I will say that because of the energy transition, people are really paying much more attention. And because there are so many factors that are affecting people, it's great that there are more people involved. So the more, the better to make better records for decision makers. Carolyn Parrs: Yes, that is so true, especially in this time because everything's changing.

I mean, big changes that are going to have an impact for five, ten, thirty years from now. So the more people - I'm talking to everyone here - the more people that can let their voice be heard, the better. So that we can really build an energy system that works for everyone. So when a community member shows up without legal representation, without technical expertise, without resources to file properly - what actually happens to their voice right now?

Where does it go? Jolette Westbrook: It is different in every state. So I will primarily talk about Massachusetts because that is what I'm most familiar with. In Massachusetts, for example, there are public hearings that start a case.

And at those public hearings, the public is invited to make comments. Those comments are heard by the staff who have been appointed to the case and any commissioners who are attending the meeting. That's one level of participation, but that is not the evidentiary record. The evidentiary record is that piece of information that builds the basis for the commission to make a legal decision.

And that evidentiary record usually requires some sort of legal input. And that's where it can get complicated. Carolyn Parrs: Yeah. It's probably also case by case.

And you described, when we had a prep call before this, a grandmother sitting in the dark in her house during a heat wave and afraid to turn her AC on. If she were to walk into a rate case proceeding, say tomorrow in Massachusetts - what would she honestly encounter? And what does that tell us about how far we still have to go, or maybe even how far we've already come? Jolette Westbrook: I think we have come a long way, but we still need to go a lot farther.

And for that grandmother walking into the room, I think the most powerful thing she could say is, I have to sit in the dark, or I have to sit in the heat without air conditioning. That is powerful, because that is a real person talking about the real impacts. And I think that's what community voices get to and why we want more of them in proceedings. It's because they bring an aspect that people who are not going through a particular situation just don't know.

And I'm not faulting them, but we all have different experiences. And we need to bring those experiences forward. Otherwise, they won't be heard. Carolyn Parrs: Yeah, so it's the lived experience - what's really happening for her in her life.

So important. I want to bring up a report that you co-authored called Overly Impacted and Rarely Heard. First of all, I love that title. It says exactly what it is and it's very compelling.

In this report, it calls out underserved residents who have been impacted by agency decisions and how they're really the least heard along the way in proceedings. We're so good at identifying the barriers, but dismantling them is a whole different thing. In your view, what would genuinely meaningful participation look like for those communities? What does that mean?

And what would it look like if you were successful, right across the board - let's just say in Massachusetts? Jolette Westbrook: The first step is early participation. Participation has to happen before anything is set in stone - be it infrastructure siting, be it what may shape rates in terms of whether or not there will be low-income discount rates or the like. Early participation does a couple of things.

One, it lets people know. And knowledge is power. If people don't know, how can they get involved? And how will they know what will affect them or how the decision will affect them?

So I think early engagement is important. Carolyn Parrs: How early is early? Jolette Westbrook: For me, it's before things are - for lack of a better term - baked. When things can still be changed by input and having conversations.

They don't all have to be formal conversations. They can be at a community center, held maybe some meetings during the day for people who may have to pick up their children and don't have the evenings free. Those same meetings could be held in the evening to accommodate people who have to work during the day. So making the information accessible in the communities.

People should not have to travel 25, 50 miles to get the information. We also have to recognize that not everyone is fortunate enough to be connected to the internet, to be able to access platforms like this. So we have to make sure that there are different and effective ways of communicating with people. Carolyn Parrs: So you said a lot there.

First is early - get people in before everything's been decided upon. And give them many ways to participate because they may not be able to get online or listen to something digitally. I also hear so often that materials need to be in not just English but in other languages, so that whatever community you're going into is truly reflected. Good.

And how do we measure this? Because we love measuring everything, especially from the utility side. How do we measure whether you actually achieved what we're talking about? Jolette Westbrook: I think there are some signs.

One being: at a public hearing, how many people are there? I think that's one indicator of whether or not the message has gotten out to the community. And another is how many people have filed comments or maybe made calls to the consumer division at the department. So I think those are some indicators.

There are more, but certainly who's showing up is the key one. Carolyn Parrs: Yeah. So you had a stakeholder working group that issued the report with specific recommendations for the Department of Public Utilities and the Energy Facilities Siting Board. And here we are two-plus years later.

What actually got implemented? What was stalled? And what does that gap say about how seriously agencies take community participation when there's no political pressure forcing them to act? Jolette Westbrook: Well, first let me say I think that experience of working with stakeholders in that group was fantastic because there were representatives who had different perspectives.

And it's building upon different perspectives, taking them into account, that makes a difference. In the report you're referring to, the state working group was tasked with not only identifying barriers to participation in energy regulatory proceedings, but coming up with recommended solutions. The report has numerous solutions, and I'm pleased to say that some of those recommendations have been implemented. We divided the recommendations into short and long term - those that the agencies could implement on their own, and those that would require legislative support.

To give you a few examples: the Intervenor Compensation Support Fund. The report recommended that some sort of support be given for people who want to intervene, to have their voices heard on the evidentiary record. These cases are very complex. They're technical.

They take a long time. They require money - you need to hire lawyers, possibly expert witnesses. That's a burden on people. That's a burden on community groups.

So the intervenor compensation is a mechanism whereby those who are experiencing financial hardship can raise their hand and say, I want to be in this case. I can bring this particular perspective to this proceeding, and I will need funding to pay for witnesses, to pay for an attorney. That was recommended in the report, it was put into legislation in Massachusetts, and the regulations finalizing that program were finalized within the last couple of months. Carolyn Parrs: Okay.

Jolette Westbrook: Another recommendation that didn't require legislative support was a road show - meaning DPU commissioners travel throughout the commonwealth and let people know what you do so they can better understand. Let them ask questions. The DPU did have, I think, three or four road shows. Very helpful.

And the other recommendation that was supported by legislation was to have a department within the DPU to help the public understand filing proceedings and procedures - to help the public really get involved. That has been set up at the DPU. I want to be clear that division does not offer any sort of legal advice. They are able to answer questions and they will be dealing with the intervenor compensation.

Carolyn Parrs: That's a breakthrough. I have to say. Jolette Westbrook: Absolutely. And also what you talked about at the beginning - ensuring that notices are in languages other than English and address the needs of the community.

That is being done. There are translators at hearings, at public meetings, and two-way translation. That's important. It's not only so that the regulators can hear the questions, but the people asking the questions need to hear the answers.

Carolyn Parrs: Yes, of course. Wow. How's it going overall? Jolette Westbrook: It's doing.

I, of course, would always like things to move much more quickly. But again, it's complicated. And I think sometimes it's easy for anyone to get overwhelmed by everything that's going on, because they may hear snippets about one thing and then something else, then something else. How do we put all the pieces together so that people understand - they understand what they can do, they understand the technology advancements that are happening that may benefit them?

There's a lot going on. And I think what EDF is trying to do - through a webpage called Community Voices in Energy - is to provide information for advocates or for whoever wants to view that page. It has resource materials. It will say, for example, in cases in Illinois and in Massachusetts, there have been instances where community experts have presented at hearings.

And that's important because it puts a real person in front of the regulators. That's powerful. Carolyn Parrs: I was just going into that question. But before I get there, what didn't get implemented that maybe you're a little disappointed about but haven't given up on yet?

Is there anything that's still on the table? Jolette Westbrook: I'm not thinking of anything major. I think another really important recommendation was to change the composition of the Energy Facility Siting Board, to put on that board a member who has experience with environmental justice issues. That was done.

I mean, these were some pretty big recommendations that have been adopted. Is everything perfect? Absolutely not. But we are making progress.

And whenever I have an opportunity to speak at different meetings or conferences, I always try to raise the report Overly Impacted and Rarely Heard because it helps regulators see what can be done. Every state is different, I get that. But we're at a point in time where we can't keep reinventing the wheel. We have to say, yes, progress was made in Massachusetts or whatever state - let's look at how they did it.

Let's see if we can adapt and adopt some of what has been done. So I think it's really important that we keep the lines of communication open, not only among communities and regulators, but also regulator to regulator. Carolyn Parrs: Yeah, so important. They can build upon it instead of reinvent it - that's what I'm hearing.

Love that. EDF's Community Voices in Energy model pairs community members with technical and legal experts - did I get that right? So that when they show up at a rate case or a hearing they have some power behind them, because a lot of times in that world we're talking data, we're talking engineers and their studies. Tell me more about what EDF does there.

Jolette Westbrook: Community Voices in Energy provides the platform. It provides the resources. So it doesn't necessarily say, Community X, technical expert Y will help you. It will say, Community X, if you are looking at issues regarding rate design, here is what has been done to date.

If you are looking for resources on particular issues, this is what's out there. And people who visit the site regularly may have material that they want to post - there are ways to do that. So it's information sharing on real issues. It talks about real results, real impacts.

It can help advocates, it can help community members better understand the community space and what is being done in that space. Carolyn Parrs: That's a powerful tool. Is it just Massachusetts or beyond? Jolette Westbrook: Yes, this is across the country.

There are resources there from various states. Carolyn Parrs: Which is great because that's what you said - the things you can build upon. What worked over here in New York or in New Mexico, people can see the information and hopefully build on it, learn more, get educated, and have their best foot forward. And anybody that does that, that educates themselves on such complexities - that weight of that voice matters in that world.

OK, I want to ask this question. I've been involved with utilities and one in particular for many years as a consultant. I've noticed that some of the sharpest tensions in regulation come down to what makes the most money for the utility versus what's best for the customer. Commissioners know this.

Utilities know this. What regulatory tools or processes can actually change that math, change that equation? What have you seen that's genuinely moved the needle toward equity? Jolette Westbrook: I think what we want to make sure is that utilities are held accountable for the money they're spending - ratepayer money.

And to do that, performance-based metrics have been used in several states throughout the country. That basically says, this is the goal we want to achieve, and we are going to provide incentives if the company exceeds that goal. That gives the company an incentive to work harder, and that benefits customers because they are getting equitable services. The metrics can be very diverse, but basically it's a way to hold companies accountable - and that's what we want.

We want accountability and transparency. I want to know how my money is being spent. You want to know how your money is being spent when you pay your utility bills. Carolyn Parrs: The word equity has hit some political headwinds in the last year or so.

Community benefit agreements I hear are being reframed. So how do you protect the substance of the work you're doing, and the people who depend on it, when the vocabulary seems to be shifting? What have you noticed? Jolette Westbrook: I've noticed some changes in vocabulary, but it does not change the underlying issue that must be addressed.

Call it what you want, but people need to be treated fairly - and I always say respectfully. You can put whatever words you want around that, but it doesn't change the bottom line. Carolyn Parrs: I love that. And I've heard that from some municipalities too - yeah, we had to change the word, but we're still doing the work.

Jolette, your work sits at the intersection of three things: voice, being heard, and what regulators can actually build. So let me ask you the question of the series. To you, what does a credible response to this moment in energy affordability look like? Jolette Westbrook: That response would be being heard.

So if I go to a proceeding - whether it be a public comment hearing, or if I get intervenor compensation and intervene in a case, or I don't need intervenor compensation and I still intervene - how were my comments taken into account? Is there a sentence in the decision, or a paragraph, or a page, that addresses what I raised and what I was concerned about? Knowing that I was heard, knowing how my concerns were addressed - I think that's really important. If I participate in a proceeding and I spend hours, weeks, months - and there's nothing that indicates that the issues critical to me were heard and addressed - that erodes confidence.

And that's just not fair. Carolyn Parrs: Right. Because what I see sometimes is that they'll go through the processes - they'll have their listening circle or their community event - and listening is an important part of it, a good step in the right direction. But then what you just said is key: that what was said was actually responded to, and then ultimately acted upon.

Those things are so important. In closing, Jolette - is there a question I didn't ask you, or something you'd like to say that is important to you in the work you do? Jolette Westbrook: Well, first of all, I really appreciate this opportunity to talk about the real issues. We are in a space right now where energy transition is happening.

And we have to make sure that as it happens, everyone has an opportunity to benefit from it. So we really need to look at benefits and make sure that we are tracking who is getting those benefits - and if we find deficiencies, correct them. We must do that. And we have to, as we talked about, ensure that people have opportunities to be heard in a meaningful way.

There are two ways to be heard. I can say something and you can totally disregard it - that's not really being heard. And you may disagree with me, that's fine, but tell me why. That would be really helpful.

So I think we just have to keep the spotlight on communities, on engagement, keep talking with each other, keep providing resources like Community Voices in Energy, and keep going forward. Carolyn Parrs: Well said. What you're describing is not a radical idea. It's really a simple one: that people most affected by the energy decisions we're making right now have a voice, have a meaningful seat at the table.

There are tools that exist. There are models that are working right now. Maybe what's missing a little bit - and we have to push on - is the will to do it. And that's the work that you're doing, Jolette, and EDF as well.

So thank you so much for the work you do. How can people get in touch with you? How can people learn more? Jolette Westbrook: People can learn more by contacting EDF - the website is edf.

org. On that website there are links to various resources, including the Community Voices in Energy webpage. And I have a LinkedIn group as well. We encourage people to explore the materials available, reach out, and just get involved.

We know what non-involvement looks like. We need involvement - from communities, from people who want to make a difference and who care. And I think everyone cares. They care about their utility bills.

They care about affordability. They care about health impacts, environmental impacts. There are so many things we have to address and we just need to keep going together. Carolyn Parrs: Thank you so much.

And for those that are listening - this is where your voice comes in. It really does matter. Sometimes you hear, I'm just one voice, I don't know if I'll have an impact. But you do.

So go to their platform on LinkedIn, make a comment here on YouTube, subscribe to Just Power, and check out EDF and the work they're doing. Your voice does matter. If you were inspired today by Jolette and what she's saying, go ahead and do at least one of those things - and tell your friends. Maybe you can even send this show to a regulator you know, or your utility company.

It is up to us because the energy transition isn't happening to us. It's happening with us. And your voice can be heard because, as you know, we are all in this together.