Bill Fink on Banking, Risk, and the Road to 2026

Speaker A: Banking. What a great industry. It's been at the heart of our economy since day one. Fueling growth and helping America thrive. The bank of North America was our first bank, established by Robert Morris way back in 1781. Over the years, banks have dotted our landscape. In money centers and small towns, um, where community banks have been a great partner. They've helped businesses grow, become a vital part of the communities they serve and making families feel secure. We've sure come a long way from those old school ledgers. And now we offer cutting edge technology solutions. Regardless of all these advancements, banking remains a people business. I've been in and around our industry for over 52 years, racking up over 5 million air miles, uh, and spreading the gospel of performance culture, development and trust based sales conversation. I've had the unique privilege to train and coach over 80,000 bankers, speak at state and national banking conferences in 49 states, and teach at 13 of the nation's preeminent banking schools. Along the way, I've made countless friends. Now, as a cancer survivor, it's, uh, time for me to give back. One way I'm paying it forward is through this program. Jack Rance with Modern Bankers. It's the end, the final day of 2025. Where the heck did that year go? Hi everybody. I'm Jack Hubbard, Chief Experience Officer of the Modern Banker, Chairman Emeritus at St. Meyer and Hubbard. And this is Jack Rance with Modern Bankers. For the past three years, I've asked authors and bankers and consultants to join me, provide solid insights around your bank or credit union sales efforts or your marketing and branding approach, your performance culture, and of course your bottom line. It's all brought to you by relpro and Vertical IQ. My final guest of 2025 is a great coach, a tenured banker and a good friend, Bill Fink. I've known Bill for nearly three decades. He earned a B.S. in marketing and an MBA from St. Joseph's University. And there's much, much more. Bill is an absolute lifetime learner with executive leadership, risk management and valuation modeling certificates from prestigious universities like Notre Dame, Wharton and Stanford. And if that weren't enough, he's a CPA too. I met Bill when he was a senior banker at Summit bank when it was purchased by Fleet. We've stayed close ever since. Bill's also held executive positions at bank of America and td. Bill is a much requested speaker, regular podcast guest and publishes often on, uh, banking and CFO issues on LinkedIn. Today, Bill is EVP and chief lending Officer of Provident Bank, a Super community bank in New Jersey, York and Pennsylvania, founded in 1839. We talk the economy and banking today with Bill Fink on uh, Jack Grants with modern bankers. Here we go. My guest today is not an economist and he's not a futurist. But whenever I want to know what's going on in the future in banking or what's happening in the economy, I always call my guest Bill Fink. Bill, so great to see you and thanks for being on the show today.

Speaker B: Jack. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me a guest as a guest. I always welcome our conversations.

Speaker A: Yeah, this will be fun. So, uh, uh, when we talk every year, by the way, this is the third year in a row I've had Bill on as my final guest of the year. And every year we talk about what's happening in the economy and what he sees for 2026. Because Bill is the chief lending officer at Provident bank. And Bill uh, is out with his customers, out with his people and he uh, has an ear to the ground through uh, lots of different uh, organizations and universities that he's associated with. But Bill, one of the things I'd love to start with is um, a little bit about your background. As I mentioned, you're chief lending officer of Provident bank and uh, that is a relatively new thing since we talked last. So talk a little bit about Bill Fink and what's going on in your career now.

Speaker B: Jack, thank you. So let me start with a little bit about Provident bank and that'll put into perspective why after a long tenure with my previous employer, I decided to make a change and it's been actually very welcome, uh, very fulfilling. So Provident is a full service regional bank based in New Jersey, which its core markets are metropolitan New York, New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania. Uh, we are $25 billion in assets. We have a full suite of lending products, treasury management products and are really extremely well positioned in our core markets, uh, to be able to succeed. When you look at why I say that is our product set includes commercial real estate. It includes CNI lending, middle market lending and a variety of specialties. Asset based lending, mortgage warehouse lending as well as healthcare, healthcare with physician practices, dental, vet as well as assisted living, independent living arrangements. We do some, some other things also in that segment. Uh, we do insurance premium financing. Uh, so when you step back and as I was introduced to the bank, uh, I really would say I wasn't actively looking for a new opportunity until I really came across two things. Our CEO, Tony Labizetta, is just dynamic. And when I met Tony, his vision, his passion, his understanding of the industry, I would say was kind of an immediate alignment to my thinking. And then when I looked at the product set that we have relative to our core markets, and by most measures in the Metropolitan New York, New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania uh, marketplaces, there are approximately 1.1, 1.2 million customers in that segment. And so the obvious opportunity for growth for a well positioned, well capitalized bank that had a well defined growth strategy and alignment of its core products to the market really attracted me. Uh, and as you work for bigger organizations, you kind of get pulled into specialties. And for me, this was an opportunity to come aboard and build a business, build a business for customers, build a business for financial growth and prosperity to the organization. So it's been fun. I've come aboard and really there's a lot to do, uh, very to do to be able to drive the business. And Jack, we're off to a very good start.

Speaker A: Well, you are. And uh, as I've mentioned to hundreds of people and people that know you, you have a very unique, uh, uh, brain, uh, you're left brain, right brain, you have a, uh, you have a CPA or cpa, uh, and uh, you also are very engaged in sales and coaching, uh, which makes you quite a unique banker. Uh, and I think you're right. I think with a regional bank you get the opportunity to be very intimate with your client base and yet offer the resources that you had mentioned, uh, that will help them continue to grow. Uh, I was at a board meeting recently and we were talking about confidence levels. And obviously depending on industry, it's all over the lot. But I'd love to start our interview about now. And going into 2026, around confidence levels, you're out with clients. You talk to clients all the time. You talk to your bankers who talk to clients all the time. What are you seeing, New York, New Jersey, around confidence levels going into 2026 as far as business goes?

Speaker B: Well, Jack, you're absolutely right. I make it a hallmark of how I approach the business is to be out meeting prospects as well as clients. And we take a unique perspective on our clients and that, uh, we're looking to build advocates for life, a deep emotional connection. And why I bring that up in the context of your question is we really have done that, we do that, and that gives us a unique vantage point to be able to get their feedback. So when you look at 2026, it is, uh, looked to be a positive growth outlook. The Impact of tariffs. And I think we'll delve into tariffs a little bit more deeply. But the impact of tariffs at this point has been well understood. People have adjusted to them largely, and we can talk some of the specifics about how they've adjusted specifically. So tariff are no longer the headline risk or trauma that they were in March, April, May. So as we talk to our clients about where that opportunity lies, they've largely been able to digest tariffs in some way, shape or form. Uh, the business is now understood that that's a product or an impact that has to be managed. They are in fact doing that. Uh, as we've talked with them, this has been an ongoing process. As we're having the conversation today, it gives the impression we're looking at it at a point in time. We actually started back in June of this year. We began by reaching out in a very focused way to all of our clients across every portion of our business. So we began an outreach to them to talk about the impact of tariffs, what it meant to their product. Could they quantify what the measure was going to be? And as I said, a, uh, very, very deliberate process that's been ongoing. We've quantified that data, we're recording it. So we look at different industry segments that might be more susceptible to tariff impact than others. Um, we continue to revisit that with our clients as we've gone through the year to see has it changed? Is your working capital demand changed in any way? Most likely increased in some way because the core products that you have are more expensive. Your receivables are at a higher level because of the impact of inflation and tariffs. Gone through that whole conversation to dissect the impacts to their business. And that has really given, uh, us a foundation to look at not only 2025, but to anticipate 2026. I would say to you that the outlook for 2026, if I could characterize it across the entire portfolio, would be guarded but optimistic. And, uh, as you well know, I, I'm just a person who loves information. And so I follow FACTSET as one of several indicators of what the outlook is in certain industries. And FACTSET follows the s and P500. And our, our market segments are not publicly traded companies. But it's a great barometer because FactSet covers 11 industry segments, uh, each week, and they give you the outlook, uh, within those industry segments. So as I talk to clients, we use this as a barometer to get them to see, uh, is the outlook aligned to the industry segments that they cover, is it not? And for, by and large it's a very reliable indicator and I'll give you an idea that reflects that. So the S&P 500 next year from a revenue growth standpoint, and um, this is the current issue that's just come out, it's surprisingly strong. The growth of The S&P 500 from a revenue standpoint is projected to be 14% next year across 11 segments. Now that varies from technology and the technology segment is red hot. Uh, so it's up in the high 20s to energy and real estate and the energy segment right now because energy prices outside of electricity are generally muted to stable. So electricity, uh, with the one exception. But overall energy prices have been stable. When you look at the earnings growth. So not revenue itself, but earnings, core earnings, net profit across the segments, they're also expected to be pretty strong next year. Uh, not quite the 14% but equally uh, strong above what you would consider the rate of inflation. Inflation depending on what measure you use right now is 3, 2.8 to 3%. Um, and when you look at where the 2026 outlook is from FactSet, you're looking at 6, 7, 8% depending on what industry segment. So uh, that that gives you a pretty positive indicator that there is a sentiment out there that barring something unforeseen happening either geopolitically or domestically, that the outlook for 2026 should be positive.

Speaker A: Yeah. I'm curious Bill. You've always been one that um, provides tons of value to your clients. Uh, you mentioned that, that helping your clients with products and additional lending needs around the tariffs are important. But what else are your bankers doing Bill, to provide value and to help your clients through this tariff situation. Because it doesn't look like it's gonna go away.

Speaker B: Yes. So one of the things Jack, we focused on as we began to talk with our clients is what are your present sources of supply? That uh, could be materials, it could be semi finished goods. Where are they today? Uh, what countries of origin, if they're not domestic, do you in fact have reliance upon? And then in the short term it's very difficult for a small or mid sized business to find new sources of supply quickly. Those supply relationships are often embedded. It can be for some, some cases for months and years and some for generations. And then we've had conversations with them, um, about that management, that operational risk management. What are the alternatives? Have you explored the alternatives? What is that? And again, um, it's very difficult to change sources of supply quickly. But as a result of Those conversations. We have found that people will look at diverse sources outside of a single country of origin. If it exists, they'll explore, uh, looking at other countries that, uh, they haven't had in the past because of either expediency or cost alone. And so you trade off the cost factor against concentration, risk of having a single source of supply. That's just one example where we've looked at with clients and caused them to really focus on, um, yes, it works for you today. Uh, many cases very well. Uh, but we have. You come back and focus a little bit more broadly. How do you safeguard for what you have today? By looking at alternatives. And then what's the timing of those alternatives? They're all not practical in the short term. But people come away and say, you know what, you're right, I do have an undue concentration here. Or if it's not a country of origin, a single supplier, uh, and it could be domestically, but in most cases, if they're relying for, on a foreign market, it's focused on looking to diversify across foreign markets.

Speaker A: Well, you've talked about the S and P forecast for growth. You also talked about risk. We're in the risk business in banking. And, uh, one of the things that we have to look at internally to be able to provide capital for borrowers is our own capital and our own profits and our own delinquencies. What are you seeing around bank profitability and delinquencies going into 26? Bill?

Speaker B: Well, as I thankfully can tell you today, our delinquency has been stable. Uh, we, as you would expect as a good risk manager. And Jack, you've known me for many years. I have been on the risk side a considerable portion of my career. And that discipline never really goes away. Uh, you just kind of tailor it. And particularly in my role as chief lending officer, you know, I look at, we have to make good loans today so we can make good loans tomorrow and support our clients in that process. And that's one of the most important fundamentals is your reliable source of capital for your client base. And so we start, we start there. But thankfully to this point, through a lot of very hard, focused work, we don't see an increase in delinquency. Uh, we're more proactive. So something comes up, we're engaging with our client earlier. Uh, as I look at 20, 26, I would expect more of the same. So we have the delicate balance is we are a disciplined growth company at Provident Bank. That's how we view ourselves. So we have to grow. And that's our mandate. We have enormous opportunity in our core markets. So we have to grow, but we have to grow in a smart, disciplined way. Uh, as I say often both to my direct reports and to the board of directors when I present to them, uh, we will not go out on the risk curve so that in 4, 6, 8, 10 quarters we give back something we've done today. We want that foundational growth that brings profitability. That said, uh, that's the macro view to your question. On a more micro basis as we come in, we use precision lender, we look at every credit opportunity. Um, we view it in the lens of returns. What does it mean in terms of positive returns to the organization? What's the size and the scope potentially of the niac, the net interest after taxes to us, um, we balance. If we need to shave pricing in the short term, we have a relationship profitability view as to what the uh, relationship returns to us. And so as we see that, uh, whether it be to uh, maintain the relationship in the face of stiff competition, we'll balance out what we may give away in the short term against what we see in the long term. So it's a combination of balancing short term, long term value to the relationship, always in terms of driving pricing, profitability. But profitability as well as driving new business in the face of maintaining relationships, they go hand in hand. We talk about them almost as if they're separate. They're so intertwined they never leave the conversation or the thought process relating to a conversation about relationship, profitability and impact on customers.

Speaker A: Yeah, no doubt. And I always listen to my listeners, my banking listeners through my ear, uh, and what they're telling me is ask Bill about commercial real estate. It's the elephant in the room. Uh, it's a way for banks to grow. As you, as you mentioned it also in these kinds of economic times, depending on the kind of commercial real estate it is, can be a real challenge for uh, for banking. Talk about where you see commercial real estate headed and, and what's Providence stance on it.

Speaker B: Well, first of all, it's a very broad topic when you talk about commercial real estate. So you know, as is expected, you've got office, you've got industrial warehouse, you got single family, multifamily. And I don't think, um, pardon me, retail would be the last. So a broad classification or segmentation within the umbrella of real estate. Um, that said, real estate is core to the DNA of Provident bank, has been for generations. The bank was founded in 1839 and it's largely in the early days was known as a real estate lender. Today we've diversified the portfolio and we continue to seek that diversification with commercial industrial loans. Uh, we, we focus on multifamily retail and industrial warehouse. And within our portfolio, uh, we have not been a player nor do we intend to be a player in office. Uh, particularly in the markets that we're in in metropolitan New York, New Jersey and eastern Pennsylvania. We like the segments that we're in, but we acknowledge that there are segments of real estate that are more challenged. We have found multifamily. And when you focus on the northeastern United States, the fact of the matter is they're not manufacturing more land. So the land with the density of the population in our core markets makes uh, multifamily and loan opportunities, multifamily relationships actually very worthwhile. So we find that segment to be very stable. We have a terrific cadre of builder developers that we've dealt with for years in that space that are very reliable and have performed terrific uh, through the last several years, coming uh, through the pandemic into the present time. So we look at that segment as being core to who we are and continue the industrial piece, the warehouse piece. Again you've got to really peel back the orange so to speak. Uh, that can mean different things to different people. Um, we have seen in our market, I'll say the mega warehouse facilities, the 300, 400, 500,000 square feet facilities and larger, uh, that get built. It's not that we don't like them. We find it more uh, opportune in our markets to connect in those smaller segments, largely under 300,000 square feet. Certainly, um, in that 100,000 square feet and below. That's a segment kind of connecting the last mile if you will, in our core markets that has done exceedingly well. So we continue to focus on that segment, again with a core group of um, very well established developers who have done this and done this not in current times but over several economic cycles. Um, they've weathered recessions, they weather changes in market and they continue to do very well. And lastly the retail segment for us, and we're very specific in the retail segment, uh, we like grocery anchored retail. Uh, we find that no matter what the economic times, uh, people have to eat, they need access to a supermarket and that tends to draw people to these locations. And the supporting businesses that surround uh, grocery stores, uh, is largely very positive. They get frequented as an ancillary, uh, link to the grocery store. We find that to be very good performance. So, as you can see, real estate's a big segment, but we tend to focus on what we know, what's been proven to work for us. And we stay in those three segments in a very disciplined way. It's not that we don't have others that are brought to us, but we just stay to what we know. And what we know works well. And with people who have been proven to work over years and years again through various economic cycles.

Speaker A: More Jack grants with modern bankers after this from Vertical iq. You know, I remember my days as a business banker. I wanted to walk into every meeting with new ideas and insights. With Vertical iq, you'll make that happen every single time. You'll be better prepared. You'll ask smarter questions and always deliver tailored advice. Now that positions you as a true advisor, not just another banker. Save time, build trust in minutes. The VIQ portal provides key benchmarks, latest industry trends, and talking points across the entire U.S. economy. You'll always be prepared, even on the go with the VIQ mobile app. Use local economic data and industry snapshots that focus on them, not you, right from the start. From prospecting to portfolio management, Vertical IQ gives you the intelligence to add value at every stage and get more wins by knowing your client's world. For more details on how Vertical IQ can make your conversations more intelligent, go to verticaliq.com for more details. I couldn't recommend these fine people more highly. Um, yeah, you're so right. You know, too many companies, banks, companies, they get over their skis and they try to build revenue and get into new things that they don't understand. And, uh, you know, that's, that's the blocking and tackling of a community and a regional bank. But I do want to ask you, you mentioned that office is kind of out of your purview, but in Chicago, what we're seeing is a lot of office space is being converted to condos and apartments. I don't know that people will ever totally go back to the office. Um, I'm curious what you're seeing, especially in New York, around office space and how they're dealing with vacancies.

Speaker B: Well, it is, Jack. I just know from being in this market, as I travel to New York with some frequency, I see, uh, is a good alternative use. But I also look at it that not every office building is a perfect candidate. One of the things you look at is, uh, the way a lot of the office buildings have been built over years, in some case, you know, generations ago. Some of some of the high profile office buildings that are vacant, uh, can they be converted from a cost standpoint? Practically, uh, you look at utilities, um, can they be retrofitted to be in fact suitable apartments? And if they can, at what cost? I've had someone say to me, you can convert anything, but is it worth the time and the money spent? And so I look at, you have to, in some case demolition to make the floor plans work feasibly. You've got a lot of work to bring in the utilities. Um, so while it can be done, can it be done from a practical standpoint? And I believe that's a question that's being answered as we speak. And it's going to continue to play out that, um, can these buildings really be converted at a cost effective rate and then be leased at a cost effective rate, um, to be made into alternative use? Yeah.

Speaker A: I want to jump back in inside banking now and ask you a couple of questions. Um, certainly I want to ask you about legislation because legislation continues to change the face of banking on a daily weekly basis. But the other thing that's changing the face of banking, uh, is, uh, is mergers and acquisitions. Um, we're seeing credit unions by banks, we're seeing community banks by other community banks to try to get to scale. Talk about where, where you see mergers and acquisitions going, bill, in, in 26.

Speaker B: Well, I think you've touched upon, Jack, what is clearly a trend and it's a reemerging trend that had gone dormant for a period of time. Um, but it's coming back. So there's no question consolidation is occurring. And the driving reason is banks seek to get greater scale and efficiency. And I don't see that changing in the near term. Uh, that scale and efficiency, as a good friend of mine says, it's a unit cost game. Uh, you drive down that unit cost and then you build scale when you drive the unit cost down. And he said, good things happen. I look at regional banks that have strong balance sheets with clear customer focus, have a competitive advantage even in this market. And I look at the customer value that comes out of having relationships and with local decision making remains a key. And that's where we fit in. We fit in both of those categories. We have local decision making, we bring value to our customers, we build that deep emotional connection in every way we can that's going to continue to have value as a go forward. So I look at, certainly there will be banks that will want to take advantage of getting greater size and scale and look to be acquired or be Acquired so they can serve their customers better. Um, and I respect that. That's just the reality of the marketplace that we live in. In our case, we believe our ability to serve our customers is best suited by remaining independent. But in order to remain independent, we got to drive profitability, uh, to drive our net interest margin, which drives our stock price. So it's, I'll say it's not sometimes an easy equation in the face of competition, but we believe it's the right equation for Provident bank and that's how we're, we're pursuing it in the present market. But that said, I do expect you'll see the pace of acquisitions increase, uh, over the next three, three years. There's a general view that the current administration on um, its focus on facilitating acquisitions not only across banking but across other industries will remain and it's uncertain what will happen if anything, after the current administration is concluded. But people are taking the view that there's a window here and we're going to take full advantage of the window. And banking is one of those industries thus far that seems to be benefit.

Speaker A: Yeah, it is benefiting. And you're right, the administration is kind of greasing the skids a little bit. Uh, on the other hand, uh, Congress always does tend to throw monkey wrenches into us and uh, those monkey wrenches tend to affect profitability. What kind of legislation are you seeing, uh, and Preparing for in 26 bill?

Speaker B: Well, the big one that is on the horizon that's been somewhat on again, off again, is deposit insurance reform. And uh, there is a view that the biggest banks have an inherent advantage, uh, because they've been classified, quote unquote, as too big to fail. And so they have the implicit guarantee of the federal government, which people uh, look at and say that, well, the smaller banks don't have that. And if we had deposit insurance reform, uh, which has been long discussed, seems to be getting a little bit of momentum. Uh, that would be something banks, particularly super community banks, community banks, small regional banks would benefit from from that would level the playing field in terms of public perception about how they would withstand another event that we saw with some of our peers, uh, in 2021, 2022, 2023. Uh, so I look at that. That's an important piece of legislation. Uh, my hope is that the House Senate can get aligned to drive that forward. But that remains uncertain at this point, but is discussed. That would be that deposit insurance reform, uh, would be a key. From where I sit, some of them, uh, some of the things that on the legislative front, um, 1071 has been talked about a great deal about small business monitoring, reporting. Um, that's been somewhat confused. It's been revised several times. It's not clear right now what form it will take. But getting a final form on the requirements of 1071 and what it would mean for bank reporting, bank tracking would be very, very, very important in 2026, 2027. So those are two that come immediately to mind that I'm paying a good deal of attention to. Uh, they would impact us, and, uh, if they will be resolved in a very favorable way, uh, that could have a very positive impact, would certainly reduce some of the reporting and, uh, improve our efficiency from our operating standpoint.

Speaker A: Well, I'm glad you brought up small business because, as you know, it's near and dear to my heart, and you've got a very good branch system and a good small business, uh, product and a delivery system. Talk about where you're seeing small business, Bill. And how does Provident bank help small business?

Speaker B: Well, Jacques, I would start. And this is something we, as an industry have to do better. We call them small business. And as I came here early in my tenor earlier this year, I said small business is big business for us, and we look at the opportunity from any number of standpoints. And I say that people often think in terms of small business lending. I want to keep it very broad. Small business is big business. From us. From a depositary standpoint, yes, we undertake lending. We, on a direct basis, we are a significant SBA lender looking to grow that business even further. Um, and then our Treasury Management Services business, uh, all of those businesses play into what we term small business. So, uh, we look at that. It's a core growth area for us. We do. We deliver and originate those loans through our branch system. We have 140 branches, uh, in metropolitan New York, New Jersey and eastern Pennsylvania. Uh, so it's a core being tied to the local communities, understanding the needs of the local communities through small business. And we support the local communities by supporting small business. And as I said, it's a growth area for us, and it's one we look to continue to grow into the future.

Speaker A: Outstanding. Well, another. Another growth area that we need to talk about is A.I. uh, it's everywhere people are using it. Uh, and it's certainly changed the face of a lot of things, including sales. How do you see and how are you at Provident? How have you integrated AI not, uh, only into sales, but in your entire organization, Bill? Uh, it's an important but a challenging subject matter.

Speaker B: Well, I'll start by we are absolutely in agreement that data Insights help us to better identify client needs and provide for more relevant information to our bankers to make them more responsive. So that's the thesis upon which we look at the applicability of AI in our world. That said, uh, it has so many potential uses. So what we've done is we've set up a technology oversight committee within the bank that is looking at the use of AI. So how would we use it in our retail segment, how do we use it in our commercial segment? And that's two very broad. So how do we look at how does it impact customer delivery? How does it impact, for example, loan bookings, payment processing, all of the back room operations that are specific. So how do we make that customer experience better? So we're going through that entire exercise right now is looking at, uh, what does it mean for front end contact? What does it mean potentially for what we do internally with loan processing? Things like transferring information from spreads into loan underwriting documents into the whole process. So it's an ongoing view and it really has uh, been championed as I've come aboard by Tony Labizetta. He's got a great insight, a great mind, uh, of not only how to embrace the customer and build that deep emotional connection, but how do we do that more efficiently. And so Tony's really set the tone as a member of the executive leadership team. Um, I and my colleagues have embraced that we're looking at how do we do it. But traditionally it seems with a conversational developer, we want to do X. And X tends to be one thing we want to take a much more holistic view is what's the potential and how do we look at across our businesses. It doesn't necessarily mean AI use just for front end delivery. How do we look at all of the potential benefits and uses across all the segments of our business? And so we're in the process of doing that. And it, I would say to you, it's one of our key focuses. We recognize that's the future. We've got to look to do it, look to do it right. But what does right mean and what form does that take? So we're, we're studying it, we're studying it very, very closely.

Speaker A: Yeah, and I got to follow up and ask you because you mentioned this, this tech oversight and AI oversight committee, too often, what happens when a bank purchases things like a CRM system that's really more meant for sales? There aren't Salespeople many times represented on the committee. So what ends up happening is operations people who are great, but they have a different mindset. They give the salespeople something the salespeople don't want. I'm curious about your oversight committee. Committee and, and, and who, who, how, how sales is represented on that committee.

Speaker B: Well, as, uh, the leader of the business, I, my, myself, the retail, the chief retail officer, Vito Giannola, sits on that. Uh, so we have, we're directly at the table and then we have the ability to bring in our colleagues, our direct reports who are closer to the line day to day. So it isn't, it's not just the highest level of the organization. So you're not getting people who are really at the lowest level delivering every day. Uh, so, and we've taken that view especially because we want it to be practical, we want it to be adaptable, we want it to be usable. As suggestions are made, the leadership. It's a technology product, so our chief technology officer is driving the conversation. But it's a broad based, cross functional, uh, membership so that we don't get kind of a technocrat view that isn't practical in terms of its usage.

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Speaker B: Research. Interesting.

Speaker A: Uh, you're busy and you're one of the busiest bankers I know, but you're willing to share a few minutes with us. And I've only got a couple more questions. I want to shift gears a little bit. You know, I've known you, bill, for almost 30 years, maybe more. Um, and I always tell people, if I list the top five coaches that I've ever met in my life, one is Ken Martin, who you know very well.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: And you're in the top five. Um, talk to me about what you're seeing. You, you went from a large organization to a community bank, a regional organization, and you've seen it all. What are you seeing in coaching Bill, around banking? What's, what's working and what's not?

Speaker B: So one of the aspects, Jack, as I've come over to Provident that I've really enjoyed, so I look at technology and all the benefits it brings is a tool, but it's not coaching. And so you start with making that direct connection. How do we prepare for a call? How do we enhance our knowledge about a customer's industry? How do we pass that information on to our customer so his or her business benefits from the insights that we draw out from the sources that we have. How do we communicate that, uh, with consistency and frequency so that they understand we're a value added player? Technology helps with all of that. Uh, but technology is not by itself the answer to that approach. And so one of the things I do, and you've known this about me for many years, uh, I'm regularly on, um, customer and prospect calls. I've actually been able to get closer to it as I move to Provident, uh, go out to see customers and prospects. There's a certain magic, if you will, that people want to meet the top. Who's the chief lending officer? I want to see the chief lending officer. And so that, that carries some, I'll say panache that goes along with it. But I enjoy getting out to talk to customers about the challenges they see in their business, to hear their story and to be able to offer insights. And you know, as a cpa, very strong financial background, tax background, I can talk to them about some of the more mundane parts of the business, but are important nonetheless. But I like to talk to them about how do they make money, why is their business different? And we have a wide variety of clients, but many of them are similar industries, similar sizes, sometimes very similar balance sheets. And to hear one person talk about what drives them in their business, why they enjoy it and they're so passionate about it, is oftentimes different than somebody else with the same industry, same balance sheet, same revenue size. And those are the fascinating stories for me. So part, uh, of what I believe in is leading by example, uh, not just to say what to do, but to get out and do it. So going out to see a customer, talk to them, talk to my direct reports their teams about what we know, what we've done, how have we prepared, what are the hot buttons for the customer, how are we prepared to answer those? And doing that in a Very visible, engaged way. My uh, first 10, uh, months that I've been here that's, I would say been a hallmark and will continue to be a hallmark and then continuing to bring that entire cadre of focus to constantly look, how do we add value that it's like we don't call on them once every quarter and that's the end of the communication. How are we enhancing that relationship? How are we delivering insights to that relationship? I look at it to have them be an informed uh, customer if they understand the value what we bring, because they appreciate what it is to be informed. Uh, that's a measure of protection in a very competitive world. And we, we have stepped up that effort. We will continue to step up that effort into 20, 26 and then the other things which we do, uh, and we're expanding as I speak, our customer and relationship planning. What products and services do they have today? What's the COD rate that we have in products and services? What do they not have? Why do they not have it? Is there an opportunity if uh, it's not today? We have it on our radar screen. So we're looking at using our approach to our CRM system to record that in a more disciplined way so it's not out of sight, out of mind and we come back to it at some point in the future and say, oh, we should have done X. We take a much more disciplined approach in being in account planning to be prepared for that next level. Uh, and I look at it Treasury Management Services in this day and age with fraud. So things like positive pay, uh, almost become a necessity today. So we look at, when we talk to clients, many times you get an initial resistance. Customer says, I don't need that, I don't want to pay for that. And talk to them about if you encounter an incidence of fraud, fraudulent checks being processed, uh, the time, the effort, the aggravation, uh, that it takes to unwind that and the burden that places on you as you're trying to do that because you're distracted from doing other things. Having, you know, positive pay becomes such a proactive opportunity. And it's not a guarantee nothing can happen, but it minimizes those opportunities. And as we explain that to people, uh, sit with clients, explain how it works, they better understand it and they see it's, it's not that the banker wants to make a sale, the banker wants to protect our bankers, they want to protect the client. And when people come to understand that we really have their well being at heart or something that they don't consider to be a reality, um, and a potential reality with fraud plays very, very well. And it's a meaningful connection that we make when we're able to do that.

Speaker A: And that's coaching. That's where coaching comes into play. Because a lot of bankers get pushback from their clients about, well, this costs money and what have you. One fraud, just one fraud, uh, will pay for, uh, positive pay and other kinds of things. Well, you've, you've given. You. You. This guy is a generous man. Let me tell you how generous Bill Fink is. So I, I trained. I taught at Stonier, uh, banking school for 18 years, uh, out at Penn, and I. 15 of the 18 years. Bill Fink said, hey, you're coming out to Penn in the, in the summer. Let's have dinner. We'd go to places like Capital Grill. Every restaurant that he took me to was better than the next, and he never let me pick up a check. He's generous with his wallet. He's generous with his time. He's generous with his customers and his people. Um, you've been very generous with our, with, with your time, Bill. I, I'd love to ask you just one more question because what. I tried to get as much into this as I could and cover different segments of the economy and things like that. Anything else that I should have asked that I didn't, that you'd like to talk about? As we roll very quickly into 2026,

Speaker B: I look at Jack. It's going to be interesting to watch how the technology piece does, in fact, blend. As we talked about just briefly, how it blends with maintaining the customer relationship. Uh, the customer relationship is sacrosanct to what we do, and technology will never be able to replace the human connection. It will be a fantastic tool, and I think we will come to appreciate in time that it will make us far more efficient potentially than we understand today. But I look at and really emphasize with our people having and building the customer relationship. So I'm enormously curious about technology and how it continues to grow. I think AI will be a marvelous tool, and I'd love to come back to you some years from now and reminisce together about what AI did. But I think as we do that, we're going to see that the best organizations in our industry, the best in class, will find a way to blend technology and utilize technology for delivery and certainly lower the unit cost, but they'll maintain their client relationships to the most practical degree that they can. And so I look at that, uh, that to me, as we look at a year from now, three years from now, five years from now and beyond is really the thing I really want to pay attention to. Uh, it's a great tool, technology, but customer relationship is more important in the long run.

Speaker A: Well, I know we're going to see each other during the year, but I hope that at the end of 2026, you and I have a chance to do this again. Open your crystal ball and look into it and see what's going on for 20, 2027. In the meantime, how do people get a hold of you, Bill?

Speaker B: If they want to talk to you, uh, they can. Bill Fink Provident bank. And I'll do that one more time because it's. Everybody does the dot com. It's Bill Fink Provident bank. If they uh, like to get in

Speaker A: touch with me and, and Bill also publishes lots of dynamic newsletters and articles on LinkedIn, so watch for him there as well. Bill, thanks for your friendship and thanks for your time today. Always great to see you, Jack.

Speaker B: My pleasure. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thanks so much to Bill Fink for providing lots of insights around banking and the economy as we roll into 2026. Over the past three seasons, 101 Jack grants with Modern Bankers have aired. I've had the amazing privilege to interview best selling authors like Meredith Elliot Powell, Mark Hunter, Guy Kawasaki, Charles Green, Jeb Blunt, Colleen Stanley. And that's just the beginning. I've talked with the best of the best in bank consulting, including Mary Beth Sullivan, Eric Cook, Amber Farley, Joe Sullivan, Richard Vanderblum and Martha Bartlett. Pilot. I had sit downs with great bankers like Jill Castilla, Brad Elliott Stevens, Ken Martin, Jane Vladio and Hilaria Rollins. All things must come to an end, I guess. And today I'm ending too. I'm leaving the Modern Banker and I'm putting Jack Rance into the podcast history books. I've had absolutely tons of fun with my partner and friend Bryn Tillman, and I appreciate her trust. Ryn and her SSL team team will continue to provide excellent LinkedIn and AI guidance and I hope you take advantage of their many, many resources. Great thanks to my, um, amazing sponsors, RELPRO and Vertical iq. The team at relpro, led by Martin Wise has truly changed the landscape of bank selling, commercial wealth, treasury services and much more. The insights on companies and decision makers and the integrated data RELPRO provides is second to none. I've known Bobby Martin and Susan Bell for more than 25 years. They are great friends. Bobby, Nick Miller and Bill walker started the VIQ ball rolling at a Raleigh, North Carolina coffee shop in 2010. Susan soon joined the group after that and in 2011 Vertical IQ started serving the banking industry since day one. I know they had something a game changer that would help both client facing bankers and the Back lending shop. With resources like local market data and more than 300 industry profiles, nobody does industry intelligence better than vertical IQ. This is indeed the end of my tenure at the Modern Banker and with this podcast, doors open when others close. And this is by no means my retirement. That announcement there's too much to do to help bankers have better sales conversations, guide sales leaders to coach more effectively, and to partner with banks that want to build sustainable performance cultures. Oh yeah, I'll be around in 2026 and beyond. Lord willing to make that happen. I continue to be rewired, energized and recommitted in the financial services industry. Thanks so much for listening to Jack Rants. With Modern Bankers, you could experience millions of, uh, podcasts and LinkedIn programs and I appreciate that you tuned into mine. Here's to your continued great success.