How insurers can support farmers facing mental strain

Speaker A: Welcome to the Insurance Post podcast. I'm Imran Hughes, editor of Insurance Post. And today's podcast will explore the mental health challenges facing the agricultural sector and how insurers are supporting farmer well being. Farming is widely recognised as a high pressure industry with isolation, financial uncertainty and unpredictable weather all contributing to increased mental health risks. As a result, insurers operating in this space are increasingly being asked to think beyond traditional cover and consider how they can support customers more holistically. Joining me to discuss this topic are um, Chris Hurst, Director of Agriculture at intact Alan Tate Smith, founder of A and B Rural and Commercial Bryn Thomas, partner in the Agriculture and Estates team at HCR Law. Nicole Kane, Customer Enhancement Service Advisor at Crawford. Hi Chris, Alan, Bryn and Nicole, welcome to the Insurance Post podcast.

Speaker B: Hi Emma. Hi there.

Speaker A: So Chris, I'll come to you first. Why are mental health challenges particularly acute in the agricultural sector today?

Speaker C: I think for me it's around the uh, incessant uncertainty that farmers are facing day to day around the environment. Environment and climate change, government policy, financial instability, mental health issues, physical risk issues. The list goes on really. And that uncertainty does lead to uh, issues for farmers.

Speaker A: I mean Alan, would you agree? Uncertain times. What are the key pressures you're seeing affecting farmers at the moment?

Speaker D: I think um, global uncertainty in the markets, things like fuel prices and um, uh, diesel prices, volatility in prices, um, and just more extreme weather. Just ah, some of the factors that are really making day to day decision making and long term planning really tough for farmers.

Speaker A: And as a result Alan, are conversations around mental health becoming more common in your interactions with farmers?

Speaker D: Uh, as a broker that sees farmers day in, day out on farm, I think it's something that needs to be addressed more openly. I certainly can get a sense of when farmers, especially long term customers are ah, different. There's something different, there's something changed, there's something bothering them. Um, and I think that the mental health topic is one that people like me who are face to face with farmers on a regular basis should be braver in terms of how we approach it and how we bring it up with farmers. I think the stigma needs to end.

Speaker A: Definitely a challenge there. I mean Nicole at uh, Crawford, you're often dealing with clients at the um, point of claim. How does mental health factor into those interactions?

Speaker E: Well for the role that I do, I'm there completely for a support role. I have quite a high impact, um, interaction with farmers because usually I'm there for support anyway, um, and highlighting that is very important. And yeah it's at the forefront of what I do. But I also think for loss adjusters that I work with as well, obviously they're face to face doing home visits. So again they're having these high impact interactions and it's a perfect opportunity to kind of try and weave in some mental health support during those natural interactions.

Speaker A: And you touched on that. And as Bryn touched on, it's historically been a difficult, um, subject to broach. Nicole, what signs do you encourage your teams to look for in a customer to suggest that they may need additional support?

Speaker E: Well, pharmi mental health is a particularly difficult demographic to support. With mental health, obviously, um, you know, people don't disclose it, people don't want to talk about mental health. They maybe not recognise it themselves. So the things that we kind of look for, are they not engaging very well with the claim, you know, after the visit, are they not responding to emails, are they not getting back to us telephone phone calls, are they struggling to complete paperwork? Um, if you've got people that have long standing relationships, as it was mentioned earlier, any changes in mood or behaviour when m you're on the farm, was it usually quite well kept? Is it quite untidy now? Um, their physical appearance, you know, do they look self neglectful, tired? Are they using sort of buzzwords like I feel overwhelmed, this is too much, it's another thing happening, not another thing. All of those sorts of things that we'd be looking out for.

Speaker A: I mean Bryn, bringing you here for a legal perspective, are you seeing mental health challenges influencing disputes, claims or decision making in insurance within the agricultural sector?

Speaker B: Yeah, we're meeting obviously clients on a daily basis. I uh, come from a farming background myself and we're constantly meeting farmers and rural professionals who are facing considerable difficulties. Um, and they're constantly facing issues, um, which are very challenging, challenging across the sector when it comes to us. And we're dealing with the dispute, we have to investigate the dispute firstly. Uh, and quite often there's a significant history uh, between the client and the party on the other side, uh, and they're frustrated, they're stressed, um, and it's important to sort of be uh, empathetic to them, um, understanding the position they're in, but also to create a rapport, um, so that they feel as though you're listening and understanding their issues, um, because that can make it much more easier working forward in terms of our role as a lawyer and advising them on a dispute.

Speaker A: Is that your kind of advice just across the chat in terms of how to adapt your approach? I suppose with um, customers in these circumstances.

Speaker B: Yeah, you need empathy and you need understanding. Um, it's, I think a ah, really important um, point is to create a safe space for them to express their feelings without sort of any judgment. Um, I think you need to listen actively uh, and if it's appropriate, try and encourage them to seek some professional help. I mean a number of farmers have actually said to me that they're more comfortable speaking to their vet about perhaps mental health issues than their own gp. That's because the vet is a trusted advisor. They probably go back with the farming family for years. Uh, and they've got that rapport there and that special link. Um, so there are very specific industry challenges and it's understanding that.

Speaker A: I mean great job of art it. My mother always um, gets on better with her vet than the GP as well because she sees them so regularly and there's so much care expressed. I mean Chris, there's been a great overview there of kind of some of the challenges the way approaches um, are being adapted. What role do you feel um, agricultural insurers can play in supporting farming farmers? Well being alongside providing you know, fit for purpose financial protection, given some of the challenges in the market now.

Speaker C: So I think there's an awareness piece uh, of piece as the insurer. We're slightly, we're one step removed. So Alan will be interacting with the farmer on a more frequent basis than we will. So I think it's important at those touch points as the insurance company, when we're dealing with the farmers themselves that we have an awareness and that we're alive to. The buzzwords, as Nicole said earlier on are potential triggers and uh, red flags that we come up with. For example I speaking to a risk consultant just last week who was on site with a farmer, um, and the farmer revealed that ah, he had literacy issues. So we had to think of a different way to run through risk improvements with him as part of a standard survey process. So it's been alive to. I know we also issue uh, uh, documentation sometimes in Braille for sight impaired, uh uh, uh, people as well. So there's that is that awareness and that um, uh, you know, uh, necessary adjustments that we would make to make sure that um, the service they receive isn't detracted from the fact that they might have a vulnerability or a susceptibility.

Speaker A: I mean very much like adapting the approach and meeting the customer where they are. I mean Alan, where do you think the industry has made progress when it comes to both supporting wellbeing and I suppose Ensuring, you know, people feel the safety net is there for them to pick them up when they should fall. And so where has the industry made progress in these areas and um, where is there still more to do, do you feel?

Speaker D: Certainly, I think, um, awareness and um, a reduction in the stigma has happened over the past few years. There is some very, very effective farming charities now who are becoming very mainstream in the farming world. They're getting good support, they're getting good traction. And the more that they're out there and seeing farmers and being at markets and being at shows, the less the stigma can have an effect. So I think there's definite progress to be made. And I think from a personal point of view, it's an awareness that you have now. You are aware of the fact that if you're seeing somebody year on year, you become part of their trusted network. But you can also see the changes in them. And as I always say to anyone who speaks to me about this is if you see a change, take the time to ask the question. Because often that one question is enough to generate the conversation that can ultimately help people and save lives.

Speaker A: Alan, how do you feel products or risk management services could have continued to evolve to better support mental health in these rural communities?

Speaker D: I think in terms of insurance products, I think, uh, there's a role for the insurers and there's a role for advisors such as myself. The products need to be easy, understandable. But part of my role is to translate those technical insurance products to farmers and put them in the language that they understand and feel comfortable with. Ultimately we're, uh, there to protect the farmers. Uh, I'm the gateway for the farmer to get to the product. So it's a chain and if one step of the chain fails, then the farmer may either not be protected properly or from a mental health perspective, not feel protected properly, which can have as much of an impact. The covers may be there, but if the farmer feels that there's something missing and feels there's a vulnerability that may add to the stresses that they're already facing.

Speaker A: I mean, Chris, we've talked a lot about people experiencing a, um, mental health issue, but do you feel the scope for more prevent, um, kind of risk management help to kind of prevent it getting to that stage, um, from insurance with farmers?

Speaker C: I think there's always one more work to do. I think Alan's referred to it a couple of times the, the mental health stigma. It's societal, but uh, there is a, there is um, uh, an inherent. I think farmers have an Inherent resilience or they feel having an inherent resilience and being able to spot those red flags and being able to spot those, um, uh, potential issues is very, very important.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, Nicole, in terms of. Do you feel partnerships with charities or specialist support services are an important part of the solution moving forward, perhaps, you know, to make people more aware, perhaps, before they get to the point of experiencing an issue?

Speaker E: Yeah, absolutely. I think any service or organisation or charity is beneficial, um, in the mental health sort of sector, um, um, I think particularly with farming, promoting those, farming specific organisations and services is important because, again, farmers, you know, it's not just a job to them, it's an identity. It's, you know, generational. There's a lot of sentiment there. It's a history. You know, it's so important.

Speaker D: So.

Speaker E: So it's important that there's someone that understands that on the other end that isn't just going to kind of give you basic sort of mental health support for sort of general anxiety or depression. You know, the people that are on the farm in specific mental health organizations can relate. You know, a lot of them have been farmers before or have volunteered, so they really have that connection and can really, truly understand what they're going through. And I think for us in our roles that we do, it's about making those connections and making sure that our farmers are aware of what support is out there. And actually, it isn't just somebody random on the end of the phone. These are people that really understand what you're going through and can really give you some good advice that will help. Um, and again, it's us recognising those signs and making sure that we're able to promote those services in an organization in a way that feels comfortable. Because not everybody wants to label their feelings, not everybody wants to. To say I have depression or I have anxiety. But for us it's about identifying those behaviors that we spoke about at the beginning. You know, has there been a change in behavior? Can I just kind of like, so how did that go then? You know, checking in after lambing and carving or harvesting or particular, you know, times that are even more stressful than the average day. Um, and just saying, oh, I spoke to somebody else that they know this organization, why don't you try and, you know, give them a call? Or I can just leave that number there if you want. You know, we need to make sure that we're doing it in a respectful and comfortable way because, you know, we can all share a number, we can all share A website. But if we're not connecting people with that service, it's kind of redundant what you're doing.

Speaker A: And it's interesting both you and Alan touch points as well and kind of allowing that conversation to happen and kind of see if there are those flags. Chris, what were your thoughts on that?

Speaker C: I was just going to say it's clear from speaking to farmers themselves as we do in our jobs, it's very community based, it's very community spirited and I think it's probably incumbent on all of us as part of the supply chain to feel part of that community. And going back to Alan's point earlier on, having the confidence and the bravery to reach out if you see a sign.

Speaker A: And in terms of. I was going to also ask Nicole obviously in terms of that support as well, how do you support colleagues as well, working in this, um, um, part of the insurance industry to spot the signs but also, you know, because it can be, it can be traumatic for them obviously as well. Um, helping um, support someone through um, this experience.

Speaker E: Yeah, absolutely. And I think again it comes down to. I think that's where the consumer duty, when that came in was really helpful because it did kind of add um, an aspect of responsibility to us for people's duty of care. And I think staff in particular and employees and people that are working in the insurance industry can sometimes be a bit reluctant to go there and make that sense. Step to ask the question. So I think upskilling in basic, what we call soft communication skills is important. Your empathy, your active listening, um, your positive regard, paraphrasing. I think giving them the tools and communication skills is a good place to start. Um, and then encouraging that face to face interaction, whether that be local events, doing more home HM visits, making more phone calls, um, just to kind of be able to exercise those skills, um,

Speaker A: is important very much a community. Before we wrap up, a question for each of you is what is one practical step that insurers or brokers should be taking today to better support farmers mental health? Well being, um, Bryn, if I come to you first, what steps should be being taken?

Speaker B: I think for me, uh, provide some at least very basic relevant mental health training to staff. Um, I've done some training with the DPG DPJ foundation in Wales, which was really important in terms of recognising the signs of mental health struggles in farmers and rural rural people. So that obviously helps and also ensuring not only the training aspect is there but also you have the right staff in any event, perhaps from a rural background who can establish a rapport with farmers to allow them to open up and specifically so that they understand that the person talking to them appreciates the challenges they're facing.

Speaker A: Alan, uh, what step would you recommend,

Speaker D: uh, as a broker that's seeing farmers day to day. I think it's important to remember that farmers are often very isolated in their work and as ah, somebody who sees farmers and builds relationships with farmers over a period of time and on a regular basis, you are, whether you want to be or not, you are part of a support network. It may be the farmer, it may be the broker, it may be the feed man, maybe the tanker driver, it may be the postman. But there is a natural sort of group of people who can keep an eye on people and monitor. And the important, the most important thing for me is if you see some change in behavior, some difference that just flags in your mind, take the opportunity to have that conversation. Be brave, have that conversation. Leave it a day or two, pick up the phone. Are you okay? Something's changed. I'm going to be brave enough to have that conversation.

Speaker A: Empowering people is so important. Chris, um, what action would you like to see?

Speaker C: I think just a reiteration and a repeating of the message. So insurance kind of by its nature is quite a distressed purchase. Nobody wants to buy insurance. And the inference of um, needing an insurance policy is that there's been a claim or an incident that's going to give rise to a claim and that inherently will drive stress into the individuals. Um, so at claims stage and God forbid at complaints stage or whatever that might be just patience and consistency and thinking about service and thinking about the end customer M at the end of the day that is going through a stressful time. And that might be just one on a list of things that are causing heightened, uh, stress levels.

Speaker A: Nicole, last word to you. What steps should insurers or brokers take today to better support farmers? Mental.

Speaker E: Well being so many, it really hard to choose just one. Um, upskilling staff is the main one for me. Those people that are uh, in the field, you know, um, communicating with farmers on a regular basis that are going to identify and just giving them the confidence to identify, record and refer if needed. I think it's knowing our boundary within that, um, and also connection. Make sure we're connecting with farmers, make sure we're keeping up to date with the struggles and the latest issues that are going on. And you know, we are offering more face to face contacts, we are supporting them at events. Um, yeah, sorry, I could go on and on.

Speaker A: No, but identify, record, refer and connect seems to be key definitely in this space. I'd like to thank Chris, Alan, Bryn and Nicole for joining us and sharing their insight on the mental health challenges facing the agricultural sector. As always, thanks to you for listening to the Insurance Post Podcast. If you enjoy our show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and make sure you never miss an episode by subscribing to Insurance Post and following us on Facebook, LinkedIn and X. Make sure you come back next week when we will be exploring event cancellation insurance. Until then, this is Emran Hughes signing off. The Insurance Post Podcast is a product of Infopro Digital.