R&D like an Athlete - David Kaufman @resideo

Speaker A: Rank in the top 1%. What does it take to finish a hundred triathlons? Rank in the top 1% of U.S. triathlon athletes and lead corporate innovation programs at the same time? The answer is quite simple. It takes grit. So in this episode, my guest is David Kaufman, a six time USA Triathlon, um, All American and senior director of strategic and initiatives at residual. We unpack the innovation framework at Resijio how he manages risk without stifling bold bets.

Speaker B: Innovation thrives on trial and error. And penalizing missteps just kills momentum.

Speaker A: Let's go. So David, you have been racing triathlon since 1983, uh, which is an impressive number, over 100 races. Uh, you told me six time all American. And you're still pushing to qualify for Team USA in, uh, 2026. Tell me, what keeps you going after all those years?

Speaker B: Uh, well, Christian, I, um, would say that I am an endorphin junkie with a competitive problem. So I love the endorphins. I love the endorph after a race or after a hard workout. You know that high that comes from actually pushing yourself really hard, those endorphins that get in your system. And then I'm super competitive. Uh, I love to compete. It's just in my DNA. So I just, I have to do it. I have to have a competitive outlet

Speaker A: because, you know, triathlon is super hard. Um, so there has to be maybe any moment where you really thought, man, I cannot finish this. Did you ever find yourself in the moment? And if so, what did you do next?

Speaker B: Yeah, so, um, yeah, let me tell you. I'll tell you about the moment. So I'm going to take you back to 2017 and we're going to go to Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. So that's about 90 miles west of Milwaukee, a couple hours north of Chicago. So it's in Wisconsin. And my brother and I are both doing the qualifying race for Escape from Alcatraz Triathlon race, which is iconic race, mid distance race that everyone wants to do. Um, people from all over the world come and do that race, but you got to qualify to get in that race. So this is a race that's a qualifier for that. You've got to get on the podium in this race in order to, to, to get, to get qualified for Escape from Trouthouse. So there's a lot of people in this race. It's a big race. It's in late September and it's hot. It's a hot, it's a hot weekend in Wisconsin. It's in the 90s in Wisconsin. Uh, and it's a uh, it's an Olympic distance race which means It' a 1500 meter swim. So about a mile swim. Uh, it's a 40k bike, so about 25 mile bike and then a 10k uh run which is about six uh, point two miles. And so it takes you about two and a half hours or takes me about two and a half hours to do that race. And we start about seven. So you're going to finish somewhere in mid morning and it's, it's going to be hot, right? So, so I'm having a good race. I'm having a good race. Everything, everything's coming, you uh, know, everything's falling into place. And I'm probably about a mile and a half, two miles from the finish, right in the run. And so um, it's a 2K 3K from the finish. And all of a sudden, man, it's just, it just hit me like I've got hardly anything left in the tank. Um, you know, I'm running on fumes and I say to myself, you know, and at that moment, at that moment you can't think about the finish. You can't think about the 2 miles or 2k that you've got to go yet to do. And racing because your body, every bone in your body screaming shut down, please shut down. I can't do this anymore. So what I did is I just pick, picked a, a uh, short goal. So there was a stop sign that was maybe 200 yards away. I said I'm just gonna run to that, I'm gonna race to that stop sign and see how I feel. So I race to the stop sign and that's like, oh, I didn't, you know, I still feel bad but I, I could still keep going. So then you pick out the next thing, right? You pick out. There's a tree that's maybe 300 yards away. And so then you run to the, you race to the tree. It's like, oh, that wasn't too bad. And then there's a driveway and then you just keep finding these things that are like 200, 300 meters away and you just keep racing to those things to just see I, and these small little goals. And pretty soon one of those things is the finish line and then you're just running past the finish line. And so uh, that's how I finished that race and I got third. So I qualified to go to Alcatraz and my brother got first and so he qualified. So we were both able to go our Goal was to both go to race the Escape from Alcatraz Triathlon, which is a whole nother story, Christian. That's a whole nother level of racing in that race. That was a really iconic and fun race.

Speaker A: Oh, man. So, um, I mean, this is really impressive. Yeah. So, uh, running a triathlon at its own is super impressive. But then don't get me, uh, even started on the Alcatraz thing. Maybe you can share a story or two later. But what I think is interesting is that you have drawn a striking parallel between that sport, so triathlons, and innovation. Um, and that's also why we speak today. But first of all, for those who are not familiar with what Residio, uh, does and, um, what kinds of products and solutions you are bringing into people's homes, can you share an idea of what you're doing, what the products are, um, before we dive deeper?

Speaker B: Yeah, sure. Yeah. So Resideo is a leading manufacturer, developer and distributor of technology driven, uh, sensing and control offerings for residential or commercial end markets or facilities or users. Uh, we're a leader in products, uh, for home heating, uh, ventilation, air conditioning, uh, smoke and carbon monoxide detection. Uh, uh, we also offer safety and security products and systems. We're in over 150 million homes and commercial spaces globally, and we sell tens of millions of new devices annually.

Speaker A: And I think you have, uh, what is it, 15, 16, 20,000 employees. So, um, really a massive, massive.

Speaker B: About 7 billion in size. Almost 7 billion and like 15, 16,000 in size company.

Speaker A: Yeah, very important player. Um, and that's interesting because the parallel between triathlon and innovation, um, we talked about this, um, before the episode, and you kind of, um, have put it into three steps. So you have swim, bike and run for sure, in triathlon. And you have, let's say, ideate, incubate and scale, uh, and innovation. How did you make that connection?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's interesting. I've been doing both of them for years. Right. And actually applied a lot of the same disciplines and just learned a lot from both of those different frames. A sports framework, which you just described, and an innovation framework. But, uh, when it really hit me is I was asked to do a, uh, talk at a recent conference here in Phoenix. And I was a late speaker, late entry for this conference. And so I thought, you know, I didn't know what I was going to talk about, so I went in and I, I studied all the. I went and looked at the website and studied all the speakers that were at the, that were speaking at the event in their Bios and I thought, oh, holy cow, this is, these are really great speakers, really great bios, really great topics. Because I, I thought I wanted to complement, you know, what they're doing because all these speakers are going at the same time. So I want to draw people, you know, to, to my speaking event with my, my team and the, and the, and the talk we were giving. Um, and so I, I just really wanted to find a way to differentiate myself. I said, well, none of those speakers are six time all American triathletes. I said, maybe there's something there. So I started digging in that uh, and then the swim, bike, run and then uh, the way we think about innovation in ideate, incubate and scale the threes, it just kind of all came together and quite frankly I went to ChatGPT and said, how many similarities are there between the sports framework and this innovation framework? I got this huge long list that I said, okay, that's my talk, right. I'm just going to pick out a few things and things that I agree with. And that was kind of the genesis of the whole thing and it just kind of took off from there and it was well received at the event. Uh, and there's just a lot of similarities.

Speaker A: Uh, there is and I think uh, with more than, I guess four decades is it. Yeah, 40 years. And innovation and board roles like CSA and HCA. What is something that you have learned that most innovators still miss?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think um, it's falling in love with the problem. You gotta fall in love with the problem first. As innovators and as engineers, which I got an undergrad in industrial engineering. So we want to go work on the shiny object, we want to go work on the new cool thing, the new cool app. We want to go work on the solution. When in reality you really need to fall in love with that problem, really understand the pain points, really understand uh, the users, the consumers, uh, that, that have that problem. And when you really fall in love with that, you really understand it in detail. And then that informs, that informs the solution. You get better requirements because you've fallen in love with the problem. And I think we jump too soon. We all think we know what the problem is, right? At a high level with 30,000ft out, we know the problem, we all want to jump and go work on the solution because that's the cool thing, that's the fun thing. And really digging into the problem and really falling in love with it is super, super important.

Speaker A: So then let's draw the connection between triathlon and innovation. And let's walk through it. So you have to start somewhere, right? Uh, that's true of course, for innovation, um, but that is also true for sport. So let's start with sport, uh, with triathlon, how to choose the starting position? I mean, I could imagine there is certain strategies, um, that might set up you for success versus just going there and starting the race. So what's kind of the recipe for success?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I'll talk about, uh, start position, both in the physical start position and then also kind of conceptually. Right. Start position for me is really about managing risk to set yourself up for success in triathlon. So my start position starts days before the actual start of the race. Race. I mean, I am tapering my training so that I am in, uh, physically peak m. I'm physically peaking at the moment of the race. I'm dialing in my nutrition so that I'm, um, properly carbo loaded and properly hydrated and all the other things I do. From a nutrition perspective, I've actually drove the course. I've drove the course several times. So I understand the course. I know every turn. I know everything you have to do on the course. And then the night before, I'm actually visualizing the race, racing the race before. I've actually raced the race. All that happens before the actual start of the race. And then at the start of the race. Let's say it's a, it's a, um, because, you know, you swim, then you bike, then you run. So the swim's the first part. So let's say it's a lake, it's an open lake swim. And that's a lot of those out here in Arizona. And so, uh, you, you do need to physically pick the right start position. And you got to strategically think about what you're going to do for that start. Because what kind of start is it? Typically their, their mass starts out here where they blow the horn and everyone takes off. And you got to know, like, how far away is that buoy? Is it, you know, three, 400 yards out? And where is it at? Can you see it? Uh, what's the wind conditions? What's the weather conditions? What are the waves like? Are you going to get blown around a lot out there? Uh, how big of a corral are you taking off with? How many triathletes, uh, are actually in that corral? Uh, you know, and, and quite frankly, how good are they? You can kind of look at them and see are you in with a bunch of the hot shots that are the super fast guys. And, and so you got to physically put yourself, you know, in position so that you want to get some clean water as much. If you're a fast swimmer, you know, you get the middle and you go. That's typically not me. I'm usually off to the side and I, uh, try and find clean water and even if I have to go a little bit further to get to the buoy. If you're in clean water and you don't have to stop, uh, you know, you may swim an extra 8 or 10 yards because you're out on the edge. But clean water is really key. So uh, the start position is really about just managing risk to get that best position you can to go fast in the race. Cause the goal in triathlon is to go fast.

Speaker A: So being first row and then in the center, like front and center is actually not the best starting position. Why is it better to be on the edge?

Speaker B: Well, if you are a super fast swimmer, uh, you can be in that center, but I can tell you all the fast swimmers are going to be in the center and they're all going to be swimming on top of each other. So we call that the washing machine, right? So if you're in the middle anywhere, unless you're a super fast swimmer and you can get out front and you can go and also you're going to be to able a very straight swimmer, right? Because remember, you're in a lake, there's not lane lines in the lake, right? You're looking down and you're sighting every, for me, I sight every six strokes. So you're down and you're going straight. So if you're not going straight, even if you're fast, the guys that are, that are maybe not as fast but can go straight are going to be on top of you. So anytime you're in the washing, what I call the washing machine, you're in the threat of getting hit and getting slowed down, getting your goggles knocked off or whatever, right? So if you're on the edge again, you may swim another 10 yards, but that'll be clean water. You won't be getting hit. You won't be. When you stop in the water, it's like hitting the brakes. You just stop, right? Uh, and then you have to start over again. So it's very, very strategic in terms of where you want to position yourself, how you want to position yourself. Uh, and in some cases, if you've swam with a lot of swimmers or swam with triathletes that you know and you know how fast they are. Sometimes you can get right with them. If you know they're just a little faster than you, you can get right next to them and then draft off them. And if, you know, they swim straight, then all you gotta do is keep your head down and just keep touching their feet or just be right on their feet. So you can draft off that swimmer, uh, for a while because you know that maybe he or she's a little bit faster than you. But in drafting, uh, you can keep up with them. And you'll see that in triathlon, even in the Olympics. In the Olympics, you'll see the different triathletes are drafting off each other. And the pros do that, right? They'll look like a flock of geese in the water. Uh, you know, drafting off each other off the, off the lead off the lead swimmer, that's the fastest swimmer.

Speaker A: That's super interesting. So, okay, the start position obviously is very strategic. First, uh, row, front and center is not always, uh, the best choice. Which brings me to corporate innovation because, uh, it's interesting. I mean, we hear often from the loudest, uh, who just shouts the most, um, who just falls in love with the problem, who has the best idea whatsoever, who has the best internal politics. Politics is, um, going to win. But of course that's not true. That is corporate innovation theater. So how do you connect these strategies in triathlon to innovation?

Speaker B: Well, um, let's go specifically, let's tie it back to start position. Let's really kind of click back to that. Specifically, how do you take that concept of managing risk to get yourself in the best start position to go fast? Well, innovation, what you want to do is manage risk so that you can get the best start position to create value quickly, right? So let's say that you've got an area that is a business opportunity or business challenge that you want to address, and you want to lean into that, right? So you want to get the best team together to go generate the best ideas that can to go implement or address that challenge or opportunity. Uh, you want to make sure that you've got a small group of the best folks that can go in and assess those ideas against the best criteria to go in and pick those top ideas. You want to go in and do a little homework on those top ideas, maybe do a little bit market validation, maybe do some operational validation, uh, maybe some, uh, technical validation. And that's all before you ever go start and kicking off, maybe even the project with some people to go build some things. You want to Go in and actually get that best start position that you possibly can, uh, and reduce that risk. So that innovation, again, is about trying to create value as quickly as you can. And so just like when I do in triathlons, my start position starts way before the start of the race. Same thing here. Right, right. Your start position, you need to be doing a lot of the homework and a lot of the work ahead of time so that when you actually do kick in and start doing a lot of work you've done, you've reduced a lot of risk in order to make sure that you've got the best starting position.

Speaker A: So that sounds great. I mean, uh, but how would you do this in practice? I mean, for example, the best people are probably already busy, um, doing their thing, uh, working on the projects they're assigned to because, you know, they're the best people. Um, so how do. I mean, how do you assemble, you know, the best fit team for an idea or, you know, if I have the best idea, why don't those people just go off and, you know, create a business for themselves and, you know, just do it? So how do you do this in practice? How do you get prepared in the best starting position, um, in real life?

Speaker B: So you're saying I can't just do it on my charm and my good looks? Yeah. Ah. So, yeah, no, you've got to actually go in and first off, you gotta have leadership has to be behind you. Right. You gotta have senior management at the highest levels behind innovation and behind the things you're trying to go get done. You want to make sure that they're tied off with the kind of challenge and the things you want to go after. And I do that a lot within Resideo. I make sure that I'm tied out to senior leadership and to the marketing leaders and to make sure that the things we're working on are things that they want us working on, the things that they want us to go get involved in. And with that, then you can go recruit folks to be on your team and to get involved in that and to be a part of it. Uh, but it's really important that you've got senior leadership on board and they're supporting of it. Uh, and that gets you some of the best people. You won't get them probably full time, but you'll get some of their time, uh, to go in and help you to go move things forward and to go try and ideate and then incubate and start to bring ideas to life.

Speaker A: Life. Yeah. I think that's Fair. And again, I think it's interesting because you were saying, what you are basically saying is, hey, let's de risk, um, already before ideation phase, which I think is, uh, super important, uh, because, um, you're de risking, for example, by making sure, as you said it before, you're falling in love with the problem, uh, which already is maybe de risking, um, BS ideas to a certain extent. Then maybe you're even. I don't know if you're doing this, but I suspect you would also be de risking an idea, um, concerning technological feasibility, maybe. So you check. Okay, well, is this a fantasy idea? I mean, this is completely stupid fantasy BS idea, uh, that somebody has, ah, let's have flying cars by 2025. And then this is going to solve a specific problem. And then. Sure. So de risking technologically, de risking strategically de risking from a customer problem and a pain point perspective. Um, sounds like a great idea. Um, already, um, to make sure, uh, you're going in the right direction.

Speaker B: Yep, that's right. And like I said, in addition to all those things you just said, it's also buy in. Right. You want to make sure that it's not something that I'm just trying to do, it's something that we're trying to do, something that we've agreed that this is important, important, and that we've all bought in, that this is an important aspect for us to go forward with as much as we can. And look, you can't always get agreement across the organization. So you just, you know, you pick your battles, you pick your opportunities and, and you move them and, and you bring them to life. And when you start bringing those to life, people are like, hey, what happened there? What did you do? Well, okay, tell me how you did that.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: And, and then it just, it kind of, it helps to build momentum and it helps to kind of, you know, to grow the innovation, the culture of innovation within the company. Company.

Speaker A: So does this approach then lead to incremental innovation only? Um, because, you know, transformational bets, they are hard, they are rare, and they of course rarely win, which makes sense, of course. Uh, but when they do, uh, they can redefine markets. Um, so how would you defend investing in them? Because maybe they're not directly addressing a customer pain point. Maybe they're, you know, a little bit more vague or far out and you know that the odds are rather low. How do you defend them?

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, so first off, a transformational bet's not the only bet you make, so you gotta be careful. Right. So, uh, for us, what we've done here at Resideo is we view innovation in a portfolio manner. So you've gotta have certain projects or ideas that are low risk, low return. You've got things that are medium risk, medium return, maybe adjacencies to the business, business. And then you've got, no kidding, the high risk, high return, transformational bets. And then you've got a framework that you're building out. And as you load up those low risk, low return, medium risk, medium return, high risk, high return projects into the framework, what will naturally happen is the low risk, low return ones will start to emerge early. They'll also get deep sixed early too. Right. Because your framework, you're trying to prove out the framework, the framework we've got, the innovation framework we've got in terms of de risking. And as we're taking things through the process, us, you know, some things we can pivot and hopefully still make it successful. Other things like, no, we're going to sunset that, we're just not going to do that anymore. And so what happens is the low risk, medium risk ones prove out the framework and prove that some of those can come to life and actually deliver value for the company. So it gives time for the transformational ones because they take time and more investment and more money to now, you know, mature through the process and mature through the framework. So for senior management, you're saying, look, we're just proving out the framework and transformational is just part of it.

Speaker A: It.

Speaker B: And it's not the only bet we're making, it's one of the bets we're making and we've proven out the framework. So let us keep working the process. We still made deep six that, that transformational project, but it also, it might just keep going. We may pivot and keep going. It's the framework that's important. And you need some low risk, low return, medium risk, medium return projects to show success in the framework. And then that's how you really lean into transformational. Because if you just place that bet and that's the only bet you place, it's to your point, it's hard to convince people to keep investing in that. But instead you're investing in the people, you're investing in the framework, you're investing in the idea and then you appreciate kind of what's happening and then transformational is just another piece of that overall framework.

Speaker A: So what is the earliest point in time when you kill or sunset an idea? Because as you say, yeah, there might be an opportunity to pivot or just uh, maybe even to keep it in the portfolio just for, um, you know, having a balance and making sure you can show that the framework actually does the job. So how and when to kill early?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Um, so we run various big campaigns. We run big campaigns every quarter and those campaigns typically will yield like top three ideas. And we take those top three ideas. Uh, and what used to be the hardest thing was trying to do market validation for those ideas. Really try and go in and say, is this real? And the people that were usually ideating come up with the ideas. They're mostly engineers and they don't really want to. They really don't know how to market validate, they don't know how to do market validation. But now with the advent of AI and now with the uh, fact that I can go in and have an AI engine that's now protected within my company, within Residio, and I can just have any kind of conversation with that AI engine. Literally we go in and we do AI assessments, market assessments of that idea that basically then I'm, uh, uh, literally I will go in and have a two to three hour conversation about that idea with an AI engine. And then when I'm done with that discussion, either I've decided that this makes no sense or I put a summary together. More than likely I put a summary together that I'm going to then go put in front of senior management and say, do we want to go pursue this? Here's a summary. Now look, AI is not perfect, right? It still requires human intervention. But that's an opportunity for us to go in and take at least that and say, and we've had some that from that assessment, assessment we've just said, you know, there was a lot of hype around this thing, but there's really no opportunity here. There's three major competitors that are pursuing this. There's no way for us to differentiate. It's not that big of a market boom. I mean, after that AI assessment we've deep sixed one of the ideas, but others, we take up the senior management and say, yeah, let's go do some human market validation of that. Let's go out and look at our own databases, our own market intelligence and see if that, if that agrees with what AI just told told us. And then maybe after that we go talk to some consumers and through that process, either AI assessment or market intelligence assessment, or maybe the consumer assessment, it could be deep six. Anyway, along the path or in parallel you may have a, uh, POC that's like this is way too hard. We can't do this for the price point that you've established. It's like, we gotta be able to sell this for X dollars. Heck, it's gonna cost us Y dollars. We can't do it. So maybe a POC just says, look, great idea, but until technology gets a little lower and it gets more cost effective to go do that, you can't do it. So there's all those moving parts. Again, it's about de risking. Right. And you got to be really comfortable with saying, hey, we incubated that thing and it just didn't make sense. And then you sunset it and we actually going to have a celebration on that. We're actually going to recognize, uh, uh, ideas, uh, that actually get sunsetted, uh, to celebrate those within the company. Because I think that's just as much of a success because we're now not wasting resources on things that eventually would not be successful. So if you can get them and decide early not to do it and then move on to things that could potentially have greater success, that's actually a win for the company.

Speaker A: Yeah. And that's a sign of, I guess, a healthy culture. That's a really positive sign if you have kind of an, I don't know, idea graveyard, uh, where you actually can say, well, it's just for the sake of, I couldn't find a better word, but it's a graveyard, uh, in a sense. Yeah. Uh, so why would you not, you know, tell your people, well, you know, you're allowed to do stuff, um, you know, experiment with ideas, you know, obviously try to, you know, push it forward as much as you can, but always de risk. And I love the framework of de risking and the portfolio approach at the same time. Because, yes, you might have a great technology over there, but it's, I don't know, too expensive for any consumer. Nobody's going to put it in their homes because they just are not going to pay for this because it's much too expensive or whatever kind of reason. So de risking, and I think you have an explicit framework on de risking. And what are the questions? As you said, market intelligence, customer price point, whatever, um, so that's great. And then there is the other piece, which is recognition, reward and maybe the graveyard. Um, and I think, I think we discussed this, um, prior, um, to this recording. You said that you joked about bad rewards for triathlon, um, like socks. So I'm not a triathlon guy. So tell me, why are socks a bad idea for triathlon?

Speaker B: I brought some biker Socks. Yeah, actual. Some visual. Just place here so to show you. These are actual socks I got from triathlons, uh, that I raced. And, and uh, when I got them, I'm thinking, man, these are really not that, not, not really that great of a reward or recognition. Let me tell you why. Now look this, there may be some triathlon race directors that are watching this podcast. And, and, and this is my opinion, this is my point of view. Right? So I just want to make sure that, that, that's very clear. So the um, the, so when you think about triathlon, the sequence is you swim, then you bike and then you run. So when you get out of the water and what condition are your feet in? They're wet. Right. And how easy is it to put on socks when your feet are wet? Because remember, the clock doesn't stop because you're in transition between swimming, bike, the clock is still running. So you gotta be able to get through that transition extremely quickly. Uh, and wet feet is really hard to put socks on. You say, well, but Dave, but I can dry my feet. Well, again, again, that takes time. And are you really going to get them dry enough to really get the socks on fast? Right. So it makes no sense to wear socks, uh, during a triathlon event or during the race itself because you're trying to go fast and that just takes time and takes uh, our time off the clock. Right. So we're not going to wear socks in the race. So you can say, but Dave, wait a minute, time out. I can wear these, uh, in training, I can wear them when I'm training out on my bike. So it's still something I can wear while I'm m training on my bike. Well, we just agreed that you're not going to wear socks. You're going to go sockless in the race in your bike shoes. So you've got to toughen up your feet so you don't get blisters in the race, uh, you know, in the bike. So, so in order to toughen up your feet and, and make them tough for the race, you can't wear socks while you're training because you got to not wear socks then. So you're toughening up your feet for the race. So socks make absolutely, in my mind no sense because I don't the only. I. The. There's two uses for these socks. I wear these on St. Patrick's Day because it's, they're green and I, uh, have these as extra dress socks just in case I need some dress socks. Otherwise those would have been thrown out. I wouldn't have them here as visual

Speaker A: aids for you, Kristen, and for everybody who is uh, not seeing the video and uh, just listening on Spotify or Apple or whatever. So we, you know, Dave, you have a fantastic pair of, of um, brand new uh, socks. One is super green, never been worn. Yeah, that's none of my business. Yeah, but one of them is super green, One of them is uh, black. Um, but what you're saying is that's actually another reward, that's a helicap in triathlon.

Speaker B: Yeah. Right. I mean if you actually give those out and people are using them, you're actually going to go slower. I mean, why would you want to do that? Because, I mean, look, you may just be, be competing in the race. You just want to complete it. I mean, you may just be completing the race, not competing in the race. And you just want to. Because finishing a triathlon, believe me, is a huge accomplishment. And so if you just want to complete it and that's your goal, gosh, I'm all for it. I'm all supportive. But for those that compete, uh, socks make no sense.

Speaker A: So what is then the equivalent of a, a SOX level reward in corporate innovation?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, so I would say it's not really a, ah, reward, but it would be basically punishing innovation failure. Kind of addressed it earlier. Right. It's where uh, innovation thrives on trial and error and penalizing missteps just kills momentum around building the culture of innovation. It just causes employees, employees to not take risks. They just go back in their cave and they don't stick their neck out.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So and punishment comes, and punishment comes in a bunch of different ways. It could be, you know, somebody just didn't get the promotion or maybe they, they got moved into another job or maybe, maybe they did lose their job. Right. So people see that, the employees see that. So, so you've got to be very careful on how you address failure. Right. Like I said, we're in the process of celebrating failure. We, we want people to take risks. We want people to stick their necks out. We want to get now intelligent risk, right? To make sure we're going after and de risking things and not spending a bunch of money and going at, and trying to de risk things fast so that we are chasing the things that are the most promising. But we gotta be really careful about punishing uh, innovation, uh, and uh, the failure of it in general.

Speaker A: How many innovation projects do you typically have going on in parallel? Is it like 1, 2, 3, 5, 10? How much is it?

Speaker B: Yes, that's a great question. So, uh, right Now I got 20 projects that I'm incubating in parallel right now. Uh, and that's come from hundreds, uh, and hundreds of ideas that we've down selected to those 20. And then I'm working with incubation leaders within the company that each one of those uh, uh, has got an incubation leader that I'm working with and the team is working with to try and bring that to life and taking it through our framework and trying to derisk it to see if we should actually go and drive that forward in the market and go make some money. So, um, yeah, uh, roughly around 20.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's great. And then. So what is a meaningful recognition and reward? I understand this might be specific to, you know, uh, the culture of a company, for sure. You know, the industry, the clients you have, for sure. But specifically for residual, what is a meaningful recognition that really works?

Speaker B: Well, I've got it in my camera feed. It's an innovation award. I'll bring it up for you so you can see it. Christian. It's an innovation award that my team developed. And let me turn it this way. So uh, let me explain kind of, kind of what it is in outwork. So this direction it's a hollowed out R, right? So if you see the hollowed out R at an angle and it's got residual innovation award on this, this side. But if you turn it and you do it this direction, it's got the same residual innovation award on it. But now it's an arrow to the future. So now it's going to the future. And what you do is you earn, you earn cubes that get put into uh, this award for the different things you've done that have been innovative. So we've got like top campaign managers or top innovators of the year, or uh, we reward patents, we reward innovation pioneers. So every one of these cubes represents something innovative that you have done and you earn these. And then we give this award out. We recognize everyone at the President's global town hall and the first quarter of the year, uh, and then everyone, you know, then gets their, you know, gets their base award. And then we're getting the cubes that they've earned and then you just keep earning more cubes and then, you know, it's become pretty desirable and people do what I'm doing, they put it in their camera feed. Right. Uh, or they post it on LinkedIn, uh, and it's gone over very well. It's actually, we're actually expanding that award to other. To recognize other kind of, uh, accomplishments within the company. So it's gone over very well.

Speaker A: This, this is insanely cool. Um, so if I count it correctly, there is 12 spots you can fill within this frame. So what happens after 12?

Speaker B: Yeah, Kristen, you actually did that math pretty quick. Yeah. So it actually holds 24 cubes. Right. 12 single line, but you can hold 24, uh, for double line. And then once you fill that up, we just send you another base award. The base award, meaning the R with this. And then you can start filling. So you can have M. I've just got one. I haven't got mine filled up. Yeah, but we just send you another base award and then you just keep filling up cubes. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I gotta tell you. It's gone over very well.

Speaker A: This is actually, it's really pretty cool. Um, so for anybody who's still relying on the typical. Yeah. Handshake once a year Innovator award, this is a great idea. And again, if you're listening only on Spotify without video or Apple, turn on the video, um, turn over to the video so they actually can see what David was just showing into the camera. That's pretty, pretty interesting stuff. Yeah.

Speaker B: I'm very thankful and grateful to my team who actually leaned in to go and develop that. That wasn't just me, it was a whole team. And we went through five prototypes to get to that final award. So we didn't land on that thing initially. It took an effort. Uh, and we went through various different prototypes. We just treated it like an incubation project. Right. We just kept innovating. Innovating, incubating and prototyping and pivoting and ultimately landed on that one.

Speaker A: I was just going to ask you, did this idea emerge from one of your campaigns?

Speaker B: Um, so the way it came about was we knew we wanted to have some kind of innovation award. We knew we wanted to recognize. I knew it was important. It actually was keeping me up at night. Right. Because I knew I wanted to do something special. Because, um, the thing for me that is most important for me as an innovator, as an idea is just recognition. Right. I mean, yes, promotions are great, yes, the money is great, but I just want to be recognized for my idea. So I wanted to make it very individual. Uh, really, um, uh, celebrate the ideator and the incubator as much as possible. So, uh, and it hit me kind of in the process, uh, when we started doing this, we started working with an outside firm. We actually were start. We actually were kind of stealing an idea from Lee Iacocca. If you've ever, uh, you know, Lee Iacocca is the father of the Mustang. So the iconic sports car that he created back in the 60s, that still exists today. Right? It's still, uh, you know, you can see the, the Mustang, the Ford Mustang. And you know it's a Mustang, right? Whatever form that it's in today, there's even an E version of it. Right. So, so what he did when he went to go develop the Mustang and design the Mustang, he actually went to outside developers to or designers to actually had like a contest to create designs. And then those designs and those designers, working with his internal designers, came up with the final design for the Mustang. We did the exact same thing. We worked with, uh, just this great outside design firm that gave us a bunch of really great ideas that actually worked through all the prototypes with us and then ultimately working with our internal designers and the whole team, uh, actually came and landed on that. So, uh, it was this joint effort and we actually stole a bit of an idea from Lee Iacocca on the Mustang.

Speaker A: That's so interesting because if you get this thing, I mean, and you get your first key cube, it looks super empty. You do not want to look at that empty, obviously. So you're like, huh, huh. Well, I got this one little cube, but actually I should not place it on my desk yet because it only has one cube in it. So what can I do to get the second cube thread? I think you have seven right now, uh, which already looks.

Speaker B: Yes, I have seven.

Speaker A: Seven. So this already looks quite packed. That's nice. You can show it. But you don't want to be the guy with this old girl with this one cube in this entire thing. So it has a competitive element to it. Yeah, it does. I mean, you shared with me some very nice numbers. You shared with me. You have a 33% engagement growth year on year in the program. You have hundreds of innovators. You're scaling programs across air, energy, water, security. How hard is it to keep the momentum up over the years?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, the way we do it basically is we keep things interesting and engaging and competitive, like you just said. Right. For those kinds of things. It's, uh, really trying to come up with those, uh, interesting, uh, ideation campaigns that are aligned to the business. The campaigns you want to get incubation of ideas that are aligned to the business. And, um, it's, uh, kind of like you in the podcast Here, right? You're trying to come up with interesting speakers and interesting content. Content, uh, so people will engage in the podcast. So you bring out a six time all American that's also an innovator, right? So it's the same kind of thing, right? You want to have interesting and engaging content and campaigns. Uh, and then the other thing is you want to get some quick successes that you can build on, right? It gets back to that framework I talked about earlier, right? You want to have some low risk, low return, medium risk, medium return bet you're placing so that you can show success and you can point to success, right. And say, hey, this is working. We're, you know, we've saved so much money here, or we've, we've now, you know, we've done various things within the company that, that came from, you know, our ideation process and from our, from our innovation process that are actually having real impact on the business. So that also builds momentum and gets people to want to be a part of it.

Speaker A: And tell, tell me a little bit about the campaigns. Um, you said there, you know, there are quarterly. So I think I might be wrong, I might be getting this wrong. So, you know, you have these campaigns, they're obviously centered around maybe, I don't know, what are they centered around? Is it a customer challenge? Is it a customer insight? Is it a technology insight? How do you come up with the topics for a campaign? Who's coming up with them? Is it you? Is it from somewhere else the business? How does the process look like?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, it's evolved over the years. When I first started, so we've been at this for three years now, officially, you know, launching ideation campaigns within the company. Um, and so when I first started, I went to all the senior leaders individually and said, hey, what challenge are you faced with? Because they're all faced with challenges that you'd love to get a bunch of great ideas around to try and go in and really solve that and actually maybe incubate those things and bring those things to life. And so I went and talked to the finance leaders, or I go and I talk to the senior leaders, or I talk to the marketing leaders and I'd have some ideas in my head on things that we could go do. So I wouldn't go in there emptying handed. I would walk in with, hey, here's the three or four things that I think, you know, we're faced with in the company that's kind of in your wheelhouse that maybe we could go create, uh, a campaign around. What do you think? And then we'd use those three or those two or three or four as kind of level setting. And then we'd eventually land on either one of those or maybe another one. So I started out there and actually had campaigns, finance campaigns and different marketing kind of campaigns and yes, product campaigns, I mean, all kind of operational campaigns, you know, customer service campaigns, campaigns, all kinds of things initially. And then what we've done here recently is we've really started to align the campaigns to npi. We really want to drive more new products into the market. So I'm really working, uh, very closely with the marketing team and the marketing leadership team to really say, hey guys, what are areas that you see that are opportunities for us for either an adjacency, maybe some new kind of feature for existing product, or maybe a whole new product that we could go after that we can pursue that. You want to, you know, we've got all these, we've got this asset in the company, uh, hundreds of ideators around the globe that you feed them this campaign and they'll just ideate the living daylights out of it. They'll come up with all kinds of ideas. Right. So which of these areas? It's not just you guys as a marketing team. This is like cutting loose. You know, this is releasing the Kraken, the innovation Kraken to come in and help you, you with ideas that you could go and uh, help you to go address that market or address that opportunity. So I'm doing more of that now kind of within the last year. And we're finding that to be very successful because that also helps, uh, the people get engaged in that because they see like, oh, you're aligning to the business and oh, you're trying to do this new thing that's a new thing for comfort or a new thing for security or a new thing for safety. The areas, uh, the wheelhouses were already in and then people are like, oh, I want to help with that. I want to be a part of that. I want to, I got some ideas around that. So, so that, that helps with the engagement too. We've gotten unbelievable quantities, uh, of ideas, uh, you know, for, for those campaigns because they see, they can see it, they see the vision. It's not just like solving a customer service problem, which is important. It's really, no, we're going to go take on, you know, this new market or this new opportunity and people want to, want to provide ideas to be a of part of that.

Speaker A: So that's great. And then by the way, just, just out of curiosity, where does it sit in the organization? Does it in the marketing and the product or is it corporate innovation? A separate, uh, separate group? Where, where is it?

Speaker B: Yeah, so it, innovation, uh, it's kind of moved around a bit, but um, it's, it's actually within our, our products organization which, our products and solutions organization. And, and, and my boss actually is on that, on that staff, the staff of uh, he reports right into the president, president of what's called our products and solutions business. So it's pretty high up in the organization, but it's also, it's got a high level senior management, uh, is still involved in it. Uh, and we really go, and I really do go across the entire company. I'm just not tied uh, into one siloed business.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense, but it takes some time to evolve and to get there. Yeah, I think it's great. So David, if you, if you think back, uh, if you could give your younger self one piece of advice about endurance, let's say either in racing or in business, what would it be?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, uh, it would be seek uh, expert help earlier Dave, than you did. I'm a guy that wants to do it by myself and kind of go off and just execute and get things done. Done, you know, and, and what you know it to do to compete at the level that I'm at in triathlon. It takes a village. It takes a village to compete. So over the years you, you uh, you know, you pick up a swim coach, you pick up a triathlon coach, you pick up a nutritionist, you pick up a strength coach, right? You actually pick up a bunch of coaches that are experts in their area that help you in triathlon to go faster, right. That help you to perform better. Uh, it's the same thing in innovation, right? It takes a village to bring ideas to life. So you to need, need, you know, you need BD guys, uh, you need tech folks, uh, technology folks, you need design folks, you may need some operational folks, right? So you really need to bring that team together, uh, and bring it together sooner and quicker that expertise. Because ideation or innovation rather is really about delivering value faster, right? Trying to get to creating value as quick as you can and get that out in the market. So I would just, I would advise myself to really, you know, ask for help and bring the experts in so

Speaker A: sooner and uh, you know, David, I love how your eyes always light up when you talk about triathlons. Um, and it happens the same way, of course, if you connect it to corporate innovation, but you really can feel it even, you know, through, you know, over distance. And I do have a lot of respect for, you know, your continued performance. I mean this is truly, truly, uh, significant. And before this conversation ends, uh, we have a tradition on this podcast where my previous guest, guest leaves a question for the next guest. But without knowing who my next guest is and uh, what we are going to talk about. And the question for you, it's tailor made for you. Uh, the question is, David, was it worth it?

Speaker B: Uh, absolutely. It has been a great ride. I, uh, wake up every day and pinch myself to make sure it's not a dream. Because I'm living the dream right now. Racing triathlons and bringing ideas to life, life, uh, and just creating all kinds of value. It's just, it's a dream come true for me. Uh, and I'm excited to be here and have been, uh, on that ride.

Speaker A: So everybody in corporate America, listen to this guy. David, it has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for sharing this. I think the concept is really interesting, drawing the connection between triathlon performance, sport, competition and then also clear the corporate world, which Resigio obviously is in competition with here, so many competitors in other, uh, products around the globe. So the connection feels very natural. Thank you for pointing this out and raising this and it has been a pleasure having uh, you on the show, David.

Speaker B: Thanks for having me.

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