How Manufacturers Are Cutting Energy Costs Without Spending a Dollar Upfront | Ep. 90 [David Kipling]

1 00:00:06,480 - > 00:00:09,119 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: What if energy-intensive manufacturers 2 00:00:09,119 - > 00:00:13,119 could cut costs, lower carbon, and modernize operations without 3 00:00:13,119 - > 00:00:14,960 spending any capital upfront? 4 00:00:15,199 - > 00:00:16,640 Welcome to Industry Ignited. 5 00:00:16,719 - > 00:00:17,120 I'm Dr. 6 00:00:17,199 - > 00:00:21,120 Leanne Aguilar, and today I'm joined by David Kiplink, CEO of 7 00:00:21,120 - > 00:00:24,559 On-Site Energy Group, a fast-growing UK energy business 8 00:00:24,559 - > 00:00:27,920 helping industrial companies deploy fully funded on-site 9 00:00:27,920 - > 00:00:31,280 energy and efficiency solutions through innovative power 10 00:00:31,519 - > 00:00:32,399 purchase agreements. 11 00:00:32,560 - > 00:00:33,679 David, welcome to the show. 12 00:00:34,159 - > 00:00:34,880 SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Leanne. 13 00:00:35,119 - > 00:00:36,240 Thanks for inviting me. 14 00:00:36,960 - > 00:00:39,600 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Now you began your career as a chartered 15 00:00:39,600 - > 00:00:41,920 accountant and corporate finance professional. 16 00:00:42,159 - > 00:00:45,200 What first pulled you towards energy, renewables, and 17 00:00:45,200 - > 00:00:47,759 eventually industrial decarbonization? 18 00:00:48,479 - > 00:00:51,600 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um it it's a it's a little bit of an odd 19 00:00:51,600 - > 00:00:51,920 journey. 20 00:00:52,000 - > 00:00:54,640 Uh one career ended and another one started. 21 00:00:54,799 - > 00:00:58,880 I actually ended a career in um factory the property sector and 22 00:00:58,880 - > 00:01:01,600 um was hadn't a clue what I was going to do. 23 00:01:01,679 - > 00:01:06,719 And this was a ended up being offered some jobs as a CFO in in 24 00:01:06,719 - > 00:01:08,959 the um innovative energy sector. 25 00:01:09,200 - > 00:01:12,319 Didn't like the companies, but actually liked the sector, and 26 00:01:12,319 - > 00:01:15,920 started realizing I could apply my corporate finance background 27 00:01:15,920 - > 00:01:20,480 into um into what was the emerging renewables sector then. 28 00:01:20,640 - > 00:01:24,959 So actually ended up specializing in um uh corporate 29 00:01:24,959 - > 00:01:29,920 finance in in renewables uh back in 2009-10, and then started 30 00:01:29,920 - > 00:01:32,239 actually taking the opportunity to combine that with the 31 00:01:32,239 - > 00:01:34,400 property skills and developing projects. 32 00:01:34,640 - > 00:01:38,400 So I sort of moved into um developing wind and solar 33 00:01:38,400 - > 00:01:44,079 projects back in 2010-11, and that's really what launched me 34 00:01:44,079 - > 00:01:45,760 into the into the whole space. 35 00:01:46,560 - > 00:01:49,120 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Okay, so opportunity basically presented 36 00:01:49,120 - > 00:01:49,599 it itself. 37 00:01:50,319 - > 00:01:52,079 SPEAKER_02: Opportunity presented, but it was a really 38 00:01:52,079 - > 00:01:55,599 interesting sector, and as it happened to coincide, you know, 39 00:01:55,760 - > 00:01:59,840 lots of other people we were I've ended up, you know, moving 40 00:01:59,840 - > 00:02:03,840 on to join and had seen the same opportunity around that sort of 41 00:02:03,840 - > 00:02:09,039 time, 2009-10, that energy was starting to decentralize and 42 00:02:09,039 - > 00:02:10,560 there was such a big opportunity. 43 00:02:10,719 - > 00:02:13,840 I think we all know it today as the energy transition, probably, 44 00:02:14,080 - > 00:02:17,759 but it but it it was this the first glimmers of it really in 45 00:02:17,759 - > 00:02:19,199 2008-9. 46 00:02:19,840 - > 00:02:20,159 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 47 00:02:20,479 - > 00:02:23,360 Now you spent time working globally across factories in 48 00:02:23,360 - > 00:02:26,800 places like Mexico, the US, China, and Malaysia. 49 00:02:27,120 - > 00:02:30,240 What did that experience teach you about the real world energy 50 00:02:30,240 - > 00:02:32,159 challenges manufacturers face? 51 00:02:32,719 - > 00:02:35,039 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, well, it was it was an interesting 52 00:02:35,039 - > 00:02:35,599 opportunity. 53 00:02:35,680 - > 00:02:38,560 I was actually working for an American corporate at the time. 54 00:02:38,800 - > 00:02:43,280 I I mentioned a few minutes ago that energy decentralizing was 55 00:02:43,280 - > 00:02:44,400 just starting to emerge. 56 00:02:44,639 - > 00:02:47,759 This particular manufacturer, which is based in Florida, had 57 00:02:47,759 - > 00:02:50,159 actually identified that as a sort of mega trend. 58 00:02:50,319 - > 00:02:54,080 And um being a contract manufacturer, they were really 59 00:02:54,080 - > 00:02:57,599 interested in trying to be um a manufacturer of choice for the 60 00:02:57,599 - > 00:03:00,879 energy technologies that were going to be form part of that 61 00:03:00,879 - > 00:03:02,879 decentralization revolution. 62 00:03:03,120 - > 00:03:07,039 And so I got actually approached to join them in a in a corporate 63 00:03:07,039 - > 00:03:11,520 development role, identifying emerging energy technologies 64 00:03:11,520 - > 00:03:14,560 that they could effectively bring under their wing into 65 00:03:14,560 - > 00:03:15,520 manufacturing. 66 00:03:15,759 - > 00:03:18,479 So it was um it was a fascinating time. 67 00:03:18,639 - > 00:03:22,159 We did lots of lots of deals, I did lots of traveling, met lots 68 00:03:22,159 - > 00:03:25,120 of really innovative, you know, entrepreneurs and people with 69 00:03:25,120 - > 00:03:26,639 great ideas and so on. 70 00:03:26,800 - > 00:03:30,639 And um, we ended up doing, I don't know, about 25 different 71 00:03:30,639 - > 00:03:33,520 deals in three years with all sorts of different types of 72 00:03:33,520 - > 00:03:36,879 energy technologies, brought them in under our wing into uh 73 00:03:37,120 - > 00:03:41,039 Jable in in in Florida, and um and so it was um I guess it was 74 00:03:41,120 - > 00:03:44,479 again it was sort of starting to be in that era where 75 00:03:44,479 - > 00:03:47,520 sustainability was becoming a a priority for some of our 76 00:03:47,520 - > 00:03:48,319 customers then. 77 00:03:48,479 - > 00:03:50,400 Some of the largest American corporates. 78 00:03:50,479 - > 00:03:55,919 Um I remember back in 1516, the first glimmers of, you know, you 79 00:03:55,919 - > 00:03:58,639 need your electricity to be green, you need to start 80 00:03:58,639 - > 00:04:02,639 becoming more energy efficient, started, started percolating 81 00:04:02,639 - > 00:04:03,759 through the organization. 82 00:04:04,240 - > 00:04:07,280 And and our business directors who were in charge of looking 83 00:04:07,280 - > 00:04:10,400 after that business um had to start taking notice because 84 00:04:10,400 - > 00:04:14,159 customers were starting to step up in 2015-16. 85 00:04:14,319 - > 00:04:18,000 And so it was pretty opportune that we had been investing in 86 00:04:18,000 - > 00:04:20,879 all this distributed energy technology at that stage. 87 00:04:21,120 - > 00:04:24,319 The question came, why don't we try and apply some of this cool 88 00:04:24,319 - > 00:04:26,000 technology in our own factories? 89 00:04:26,240 - > 00:04:29,680 And um, I uh I think I must have been less to step backwards. 90 00:04:29,759 - > 00:04:32,480 I stood, I ended volunteering to say, I'll do that. 91 00:04:32,639 - > 00:04:35,439 I ended up uh having a great time, forming a team, delivering 92 00:04:35,439 - > 00:04:38,079 sort of energy efficiency projects across our factories. 93 00:04:38,240 - > 00:04:42,160 As you mentioned, the you know, um Mexico, Malaysia, China, 94 00:04:42,319 - > 00:04:43,839 across the US and in Europe. 95 00:04:44,000 - > 00:04:47,199 So it was it was a great time, a lot, lots of um different 96 00:04:47,199 - > 00:04:48,720 experiences, different cultures. 97 00:04:48,800 - > 00:04:50,639 You've got to implement projects within. 98 00:04:50,800 - > 00:04:53,680 Understanding what drives a project team and a project 99 00:04:53,680 - > 00:04:58,160 manager in Mexico versus China is a real key to that, and 100 00:04:58,160 - > 00:05:01,839 actually having local representation to liaise with 101 00:05:01,839 - > 00:05:05,279 those guys and um make sure you're getting the full a f a 102 00:05:05,360 - > 00:05:07,279 full understanding of everything is key. 103 00:05:07,439 - > 00:05:10,800 But um, I think one of the things we also learned um across 104 00:05:10,800 - > 00:05:14,720 the globe is that our you know our facilities guys were all 105 00:05:14,720 - > 00:05:18,319 very well-minded, they were all very busy, but they also had 106 00:05:18,319 - > 00:05:20,240 different um skill sets. 107 00:05:20,399 - > 00:05:23,600 Not all of them had the skill set you needed to identify 108 00:05:23,600 - > 00:05:26,079 savings and opportunities in the factories. 109 00:05:26,240 - > 00:05:28,959 Um, some of them were very innovative, some were some 110 00:05:28,959 - > 00:05:31,920 weren't, but most lacked the resources to actually do 111 00:05:31,920 - > 00:05:32,879 anything locally. 112 00:05:33,040 - > 00:05:37,680 And so, you know, the ability to bring resources to the table to 113 00:05:37,680 - > 00:05:40,319 actually help implement the project is probably one of the 114 00:05:40,319 - > 00:05:42,720 key success factors in making projects happen. 115 00:05:43,199 - > 00:05:43,519 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Right. 116 00:05:43,759 - > 00:05:44,879 How fascinating, though. 117 00:05:45,040 - > 00:05:47,120 That must have been very interesting times, though, 118 00:05:47,279 - > 00:05:51,120 getting to travel aro around the world as this emergent emerging 119 00:05:51,120 - > 00:05:54,560 technology was you know coming to be in all the different, you 120 00:05:54,560 - > 00:05:56,319 know, energy sectors, like you mentioned. 121 00:05:56,399 - > 00:06:00,319 And getting to travel around and as you mentioned, not only to 122 00:06:00,319 - > 00:06:03,519 learn about the emerging technology and innovation, but 123 00:06:03,519 - > 00:06:07,439 also the culture and seeing how people work and problem problem 124 00:06:07,439 - > 00:06:09,519 solve in in different parts of the world. 125 00:06:09,839 - > 00:06:10,160 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 126 00:06:10,399 - > 00:06:10,560 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 127 00:06:10,800 - > 00:06:11,839 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, absolutely. 128 00:06:11,920 - > 00:06:14,800 And and you start to realize in different parts of the world, 129 00:06:15,040 - > 00:06:18,000 some people don't want to admit that they've got a problem with 130 00:06:18,000 - > 00:06:21,519 uh their their their internal say infrastructure and so on. 131 00:06:21,600 - > 00:06:26,560 So it's very uh one of one of I think key success factors is is 132 00:06:26,560 - > 00:06:28,079 not just not assuming things. 133 00:06:28,240 - > 00:06:30,240 Check things for yourself and make sure they're right. 134 00:06:30,480 - > 00:06:33,439 Yeah, the the key to success is making sure you've done your 135 00:06:33,600 - > 00:06:36,240 your homework before you start trying to implement the you know 136 00:06:36,319 - > 00:06:39,199 what you're gonna implement on is stable and it works. 137 00:06:39,360 - > 00:06:39,839 So yeah. 138 00:06:40,240 - > 00:06:40,319 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 139 00:06:40,560 - > 00:06:41,360 No, that's a good point. 140 00:06:41,519 - > 00:06:42,639 A lot of culture is right. 141 00:06:42,879 - > 00:06:45,759 Just you know, being able to admit certain things or you know 142 00:06:46,079 - > 00:06:47,839 the way they go about things culturally. 143 00:06:48,319 - > 00:06:50,879 The key to success is is identifying that and then 144 00:06:51,279 - > 00:06:51,680 working with it. 145 00:06:52,079 - > 00:06:53,439 SPEAKER_02: Good good solid project management. 146 00:06:53,600 - > 00:06:56,639 I mean, these those cool skills go a long way anywhere. 147 00:06:56,720 - > 00:06:59,839 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: So you've said one of the biggest issues 148 00:06:59,839 - > 00:07:02,800 was that great energy projects often got shelved because of 149 00:07:02,800 - > 00:07:03,839 payback criteria. 150 00:07:04,319 - > 00:07:07,040 When did you realize the real innovation wasn't just 151 00:07:07,040 - > 00:07:09,040 technology, but the funding model? 152 00:07:10,000 - > 00:07:13,040 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I I come across it all the time now, 153 00:07:13,120 - > 00:07:13,439 Stella. 154 00:07:13,519 - > 00:07:16,240 I only last last week I had a company saying, you know, 155 00:07:16,319 - > 00:07:20,240 they've got a an internal payback criteria of two years. 156 00:07:20,480 - > 00:07:23,199 And it's pretty difficult to actually, apart from really 157 00:07:23,199 - > 00:07:26,879 low-hanging fruit type easy, easy quick wins, it's pretty 158 00:07:26,879 - > 00:07:29,120 difficult with any infrastructure to get a payback 159 00:07:29,120 - > 00:07:29,680 of two years. 160 00:07:29,839 - > 00:07:31,040 It really doesn't exist. 161 00:07:31,199 - > 00:07:35,120 And um I think what I was fortunate in in J Ball, I was 162 00:07:35,120 - > 00:07:39,519 operating at VP level, so I got access into treasury guys, legal 163 00:07:39,519 - > 00:07:42,399 guys, all the people who were making the sort of really key 164 00:07:42,399 - > 00:07:43,839 decisions around the reporting. 165 00:07:43,920 - > 00:07:46,879 We were a New York stock exchange listed company, so you 166 00:07:46,879 - > 00:07:50,639 know we it was great to see get um to talk to the people who 167 00:07:50,639 - > 00:07:52,480 were really involved in the inner workings. 168 00:07:52,639 - > 00:07:56,079 And fun fundamentally, you know, what's behind a two-year payback 169 00:07:56,319 - > 00:07:59,759 is actually uh somebody in Treasury probably looking after 170 00:07:59,759 - > 00:08:03,920 the um the the the investment rating of the of the corporate 171 00:08:04,000 - > 00:08:07,360 and trying to manage the balance sheet within certain parameters. 172 00:08:07,600 - > 00:08:11,519 And so almost it didn't matter how good the project was, if how 173 00:08:11,519 - > 00:08:15,600 cash rich the business was, often it came down to to um the 174 00:08:15,600 - > 00:08:18,800 bond rating or the investment rating of the business and you 175 00:08:18,800 - > 00:08:23,439 know comments uh the business had made to investors about 176 00:08:23,439 - > 00:08:25,600 capital expenditure, for instance, in the year there 177 00:08:25,680 - > 00:08:29,759 might be a cap agreed with investors to that they don't 178 00:08:29,759 - > 00:08:33,200 think you're going wild investing in CapEx and so on. 179 00:08:33,279 - > 00:08:36,480 And um so it suddenly really really occurred to me that that 180 00:08:36,480 - > 00:08:39,519 two-year payback is a simplification often for people 181 00:08:39,519 - > 00:08:42,799 who who don't need to know the full reason why why a business 182 00:08:42,799 - > 00:08:45,600 isn't spending all those hundreds of millions, billions 183 00:08:45,600 - > 00:08:46,320 sitting in the bank. 184 00:08:46,480 - > 00:08:49,039 It's about it's about credit rating and it's about bond 185 00:08:49,039 - > 00:08:51,600 rating and the and the rates they they borrow money at. 186 00:08:51,759 - > 00:08:55,039 Um and and that was what um we had in one of our in our 187 00:08:55,039 - > 00:08:59,039 California facility actually, um non-site generation from uh one 188 00:08:59,039 - > 00:09:02,399 of a fuel cell company who'd who'd put it in without CapEx 189 00:09:02,480 - > 00:09:05,279 for us on a 10-year power purchase agreement. 190 00:09:05,519 - > 00:09:08,720 And you know, um I think at that point I became aware of it, and 191 00:09:08,879 - > 00:09:12,080 maybe it's the accountancy background in in me, but um 192 00:09:12,320 - > 00:09:15,759 suddenly the penny dropped that actually if we could bring in 193 00:09:15,759 - > 00:09:18,960 external capital, do it off balance sheet, which was you 194 00:09:18,960 - > 00:09:20,399 know a really k critical thing. 195 00:09:20,639 - > 00:09:24,320 That was at the time we had very conservative um financial 196 00:09:24,320 - > 00:09:27,519 accounting guys in in our accounting team, you know, Enron 197 00:09:27,679 - > 00:09:30,879 was five years old or something like this, you know, and so the 198 00:09:31,039 - > 00:09:34,240 the people were very, very nervous about the accounting 199 00:09:34,240 - > 00:09:35,519 aspect of of these things. 200 00:09:36,000 - > 00:09:38,480 But if we could bring third-party capital in genuinely 201 00:09:38,480 - > 00:09:41,679 and deliver an off-balance sheets solution, it was a way to 202 00:09:41,919 - > 00:09:44,879 allow longer payback uh projects to proceed. 203 00:09:45,039 - > 00:09:47,200 And and fundamentally that's what we do today. 204 00:09:47,360 - > 00:09:51,440 We uh we often see a fantastic project that delivers really 205 00:09:51,679 - > 00:09:55,200 significant energy savings, significant carbon savings, but 206 00:09:55,200 - > 00:09:58,480 it may have a three and a half, four, four and a half, five year 207 00:09:58,480 - > 00:09:59,200 payback. 208 00:09:59,440 - > 00:10:02,799 And that would ordinarily sit on the shelf and not happen. 209 00:10:02,960 - > 00:10:06,639 We we enable those things to happen by us funding them and 210 00:10:06,639 - > 00:10:10,240 delivering the benefits as a fixed amount of uh price per 211 00:10:10,240 - > 00:10:12,960 kilowatt that we deliver, which is actually, you know, I should 212 00:10:13,039 - > 00:10:15,679 stress, at a rate that's lower than the the corporates already 213 00:10:15,679 - > 00:10:16,000 pay. 214 00:10:16,080 - > 00:10:20,320 So so they get savings straight to their PL, and they don't have 215 00:10:20,320 - > 00:10:24,240 the financial hit of uh going through CapEx and all the 216 00:10:24,240 - > 00:10:26,240 reporting aspects that that relate to that. 217 00:10:26,399 - > 00:10:30,159 So off-balance sheet third-party financing unlocks a lot of 218 00:10:30,159 - > 00:10:31,200 sustainability projects. 219 00:10:31,519 - > 00:10:31,759 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Right. 220 00:10:31,919 - > 00:10:35,200 And so does your ability to create these different funding 221 00:10:35,200 - > 00:10:36,480 models uh set you apart? 222 00:10:36,720 - > 00:10:38,960 Does it di differentiate you and the industry? 223 00:10:39,440 - > 00:10:42,720 SPEAKER_02: I think I think we're um they're very common in 224 00:10:42,799 - > 00:10:44,639 say single technology solutions. 225 00:10:44,799 - > 00:10:47,919 So you often heard about you know free solar on your roof and 226 00:10:48,000 - > 00:10:52,320 you know, and and um you know solar solar PPAs. 227 00:10:52,639 - > 00:10:55,600 And I think a lot of institutional investors are 228 00:10:55,600 - > 00:10:58,639 comfortable with known technologies and a single 229 00:10:58,639 - > 00:10:59,120 technology. 230 00:10:59,279 - > 00:11:02,799 I think what sets us apart is that we we do multi-technology 231 00:11:02,799 - > 00:11:06,960 solutions, where we include energy efficiency solutions, 232 00:11:07,120 - > 00:11:10,159 heating solutions, um infrastructure upgrade 233 00:11:10,159 - > 00:11:12,480 solutions, you know, around things like electrical 234 00:11:12,480 - > 00:11:15,120 infrastructure under the same funding structure. 235 00:11:15,279 - > 00:11:18,320 And so, you know, it allows a lot of things to be done that 236 00:11:18,320 - > 00:11:20,159 aren't just a single technology. 237 00:11:20,399 - > 00:11:22,480 I think from that perspective, we're fairly unique. 238 00:11:22,639 - > 00:11:26,320 Uh are also our funding source were a lot more flexible than 239 00:11:26,320 - > 00:11:29,840 many because many go back to effective institutional funding 240 00:11:29,840 - > 00:11:30,480 for their for them. 241 00:11:31,039 - > 00:11:34,080 Um they're often bound by institutional financing terms, 242 00:11:34,240 - > 00:11:38,159 and those institutions are looking for 20, 25-year 243 00:11:38,159 - > 00:11:40,720 agreements with quite stringent terms on them. 244 00:11:40,960 - > 00:11:44,080 My experience is most corporates don't really want to commit more 245 00:11:44,080 - > 00:11:44,720 than 10 years. 246 00:11:44,879 - > 00:11:46,480 Maybe they'll stretch to 15. 247 00:11:46,639 - > 00:11:50,480 So there's a bit of an impasse already between institutions and 248 00:11:50,480 - > 00:11:51,360 manufacturers. 249 00:11:51,519 - > 00:11:54,559 We try to be on the side of the manufacturers and give them 250 00:11:54,559 - > 00:11:58,240 structure they can accept and and make real difference in the 251 00:11:58,240 - > 00:12:01,360 way they operate by having much more efficient infrastructure 252 00:12:01,360 - > 00:12:02,240 they operate on. 253 00:12:02,559 - > 00:12:02,799 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 254 00:12:02,960 - > 00:12:06,399 Now, David, when you left Jable and founded On-Site Energy, what 255 00:12:06,399 - > 00:12:07,440 was the original vision? 256 00:12:07,600 - > 00:12:11,360 And how was that vision or how has it evolved as the company 257 00:12:11,360 - > 00:12:11,759 has grown? 258 00:12:12,159 - > 00:12:14,879 SPEAKER_02: The the original vision was I'd seen the 259 00:12:14,879 - > 00:12:16,320 opportunity in in Jable. 260 00:12:16,720 - > 00:12:20,159 You know, at the time I I saw an opportunity to potentially cut 261 00:12:20,159 - > 00:12:21,360 our energy bill by half. 262 00:12:21,759 - > 00:12:24,480 Reasonable size investment, but it wasn't gonna it wasn't gonna 263 00:12:24,480 - > 00:12:27,279 happen through a sort of third party, you know, that that scale 264 00:12:27,360 - > 00:12:29,519 through a third-party finance option at the time. 265 00:12:29,679 - > 00:12:32,480 I think um I you know we'd spoken to a number of other 266 00:12:32,559 - > 00:12:34,879 companies and identified the same challenges. 267 00:12:35,039 - > 00:12:37,360 I think I think fundamentally where it's changed though is 268 00:12:37,360 - > 00:12:40,000 we've maybe got a a little um a little wider. 269 00:12:40,159 - > 00:12:43,679 I think we understand the the scope of what's driving 270 00:12:43,679 - > 00:12:45,039 companies more today. 271 00:12:45,279 - > 00:12:48,720 At the time there were no such things as science-based target 272 00:12:48,720 - > 00:12:52,000 initiatives, and many corporates hadn't uh committed to 273 00:12:52,000 - > 00:12:56,080 decarbonisation goals when I left 2018, 2019. 274 00:12:56,159 - > 00:12:59,600 You know, it was um uh and we've seen the uptake of um 275 00:12:59,840 - > 00:13:04,559 commitments to decarbonisation goals since sort of 2022 to 25. 276 00:13:05,120 - > 00:13:09,759 So many corporates now are um starting to enter the first real 277 00:13:09,759 - > 00:13:12,000 milestones in those in those commitments. 278 00:13:12,080 - > 00:13:16,320 Now there's a 2025 commitment, there's a 2020, 2030 commitment 279 00:13:16,320 - > 00:13:17,279 coming up, yeah. 280 00:13:17,519 - > 00:13:20,879 And many of them, I think, had maybe not appreciated how 281 00:13:20,879 - > 00:13:23,360 difficult some of those commitments are to meet, and and 282 00:13:23,360 - > 00:13:25,519 they don't have solutions for those commitments. 283 00:13:25,600 - > 00:13:29,840 So we're sort of um, I suppose adapting our model to helping 284 00:13:29,840 - > 00:13:32,480 recognize more that the sustainability journey people 285 00:13:32,480 - > 00:13:34,639 are on, and the fact that we can help them more on that 286 00:13:34,639 - > 00:13:36,080 sustainability journey. 287 00:13:36,320 - > 00:13:38,960 And I think one of the other factors that's happened in the 288 00:13:38,960 - > 00:13:41,919 last uh three or four years is we obviously had the cris the 289 00:13:42,399 - > 00:13:46,080 invasion by by the Russians and and what happened to energy 290 00:13:46,080 - > 00:13:49,279 prices as a result of that, particularly in Europe, uh we've 291 00:13:49,440 - > 00:13:54,000 we've got high and and and sticky high energy prices, much 292 00:13:54,000 - > 00:13:55,440 higher than you see in the US. 293 00:13:55,919 - > 00:13:58,720 So um, and that's caused a lot of pain. 294 00:13:58,879 - > 00:14:01,679 So there's you know a lot of businesses who are in tight 295 00:14:01,679 - > 00:14:04,639 margin sectors, a lot of the manufacturing sectors like food 296 00:14:04,639 - > 00:14:07,679 manufacturing and chemical manufacturing, particularly sort 297 00:14:07,679 - > 00:14:11,840 of commodity chemicals and so on, are really squeezed and are 298 00:14:11,840 - > 00:14:14,639 really feeling the pain of energy in Europe. 299 00:14:14,799 - > 00:14:18,000 And so, again, one of the key messages we've really adapted 300 00:14:18,000 - > 00:14:20,399 our model to is that what we're doing is actually helping 301 00:14:20,399 - > 00:14:22,960 businesses become more competitive, actually preserve 302 00:14:22,960 - > 00:14:27,039 jobs in the locations they're in, um, rather than jobs having, 303 00:14:27,120 - > 00:14:30,159 you know, going off to another country where the energy and 304 00:14:30,159 - > 00:14:31,440 operating costs are cheaper. 305 00:14:31,519 - > 00:14:34,879 So it's is really resonating with local um local 306 00:14:34,879 - > 00:14:37,679 manufacturing sites that actually we can make a real 307 00:14:37,679 - > 00:14:41,279 difference to preserving that factory on the site, not just so 308 00:14:41,279 - > 00:14:44,080 it's not just sustainability in terms of carbon emissions and so 309 00:14:44,080 - > 00:14:47,200 on, it's actually sustainability in having an operation there and 310 00:14:47,200 - > 00:14:50,240 preserving the hundreds and maybe thousands of jobs that 311 00:14:50,240 - > 00:14:51,519 rely on that particular site. 312 00:14:51,759 - > 00:14:54,720 Yeah, that that I think is one of the main evolutions. 313 00:14:55,200 - > 00:14:57,360 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. 314 00:14:57,679 - > 00:15:02,639 Now you launched the business in 2021 and won forward as an early 315 00:15:02,639 - > 00:15:06,480 customer, which is a remarkable you know, accomplishment for a 316 00:15:06,480 - > 00:15:07,360 young company. 317 00:15:07,679 - > 00:15:11,039 What do you think helped you break through with such a major 318 00:15:11,039 - > 00:15:12,000 industrial name? 319 00:15:12,720 - > 00:15:14,799 SPEAKER_02: Probably I'm a little bit of a smooth talker on 320 00:15:14,799 - > 00:15:15,120 occasions. 321 00:15:15,360 - > 00:15:18,480 I did not I did the sales pitch on that particular one. 322 00:15:18,720 - > 00:15:21,440 Um no, I uh we uh we asked them afterwards. 323 00:15:21,519 - > 00:15:24,399 I mean, and I and it was to me it was still unprecedented. 324 00:15:24,480 - > 00:15:29,360 I mean, I I got an explanation from Ford, and um to the to this 325 00:15:29,360 - > 00:15:32,240 day I still wonder, you know, how how on earth it happened. 326 00:15:32,399 - > 00:15:35,360 At the time, I was a one-person business. 327 00:15:35,519 - > 00:15:38,799 We were undercapitalized, we had no other track record and no 328 00:15:38,799 - > 00:15:42,000 other projects I could show other than what I pointed to I'd 329 00:15:42,159 - > 00:15:43,279 I'd done back in Jable. 330 00:15:43,679 - > 00:15:45,759 And and yet they took the chance on us. 331 00:15:45,840 - > 00:15:48,320 And actually, this was uh this is a Ford site. 332 00:15:48,399 - > 00:15:52,879 Um it was quite an unusual project in that um it was it was 333 00:15:52,879 - > 00:15:55,679 an established manufacturing site, but they were being 334 00:15:55,679 - > 00:15:58,639 disconnected from their utilities within a fixed 335 00:15:58,639 - > 00:15:59,279 timescale. 336 00:15:59,440 - > 00:16:02,720 They they took their utilities from another adjacent factory, 337 00:16:02,799 - > 00:16:06,320 and that factory needed the power back and the gas back and 338 00:16:06,320 - > 00:16:07,039 everything like this. 339 00:16:07,120 - > 00:16:10,799 So this Ford site was if it didn't hit the project within 340 00:16:10,799 - > 00:16:14,000 the timescale, it was going to have no energy, which is a 341 00:16:14,000 - > 00:16:16,159 pretty crucial operating issue. 342 00:16:16,480 - > 00:16:22,000 So um we the the what they told us after was we were the only 343 00:16:22,000 - > 00:16:25,200 company who came up with the sort of innovative solution that 344 00:16:25,200 - > 00:16:25,679 we had. 345 00:16:25,759 - > 00:16:29,600 And we're the only company that actually met all their um their 346 00:16:29,919 - > 00:16:31,279 question criteria. 347 00:16:31,519 - > 00:16:35,120 We'd we'd we'd worked hard on the approach we were taking, 348 00:16:35,279 - > 00:16:38,480 particularly to the to the use of heat uh in and its 349 00:16:38,480 - > 00:16:40,480 reapplication in the facility. 350 00:16:40,799 - > 00:16:44,559 So really we the we were the only one who was was prepared to 351 00:16:44,559 - > 00:16:47,120 do all of the finance and actually had a technical 352 00:16:47,120 - > 00:16:50,000 solution that met all their requirements and exceeded them. 353 00:16:50,159 - > 00:16:52,639 And I think that's we still try to do that today. 354 00:16:52,720 - > 00:16:55,600 It's very much about being innovative and going the extra 355 00:16:55,600 - > 00:16:59,840 mile and um you know trying to think what else we can do to to 356 00:16:59,840 - > 00:17:01,440 improve the solution, basically. 357 00:17:01,519 - > 00:17:03,279 So that yeah, that's that's where we are. 358 00:17:03,360 - > 00:17:08,240 And Ford's been a great customer and partner now for uh for five 359 00:17:08,240 - > 00:17:08,960 years nearly. 360 00:17:09,119 - > 00:17:12,960 And um, you know, we uh we've we've done four projects with 361 00:17:12,960 - > 00:17:16,160 Ford since then, and you know, we're hoping to go on and do a 362 00:17:16,160 - > 00:17:16,960 lot more with them. 363 00:17:17,279 - > 00:17:17,599 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 364 00:17:17,920 - > 00:17:21,200 Well, and I'm I'm thinking as you're you're talking, the the 365 00:17:21,200 - > 00:17:25,279 fact that you were new and and small and had a lot of agility, 366 00:17:25,440 - > 00:17:29,839 had you know the ability to to create a custom solution for 367 00:17:29,839 - > 00:17:30,000 them. 368 00:17:30,160 - > 00:17:33,920 And it sounds like you really listened to their specific needs 369 00:17:33,920 - > 00:17:34,240 as well. 370 00:17:34,640 - > 00:17:37,920 So you know, I think that probably had a lot to do with 371 00:17:37,920 - > 00:17:41,599 the the the fact that you were able to adapt to to what they 372 00:17:41,599 - > 00:17:43,839 were actually asking for in great detail. 373 00:17:44,319 - > 00:17:46,319 SPEAKER_02: And and I think we try to do that even today. 374 00:17:46,400 - > 00:17:49,599 You know, we're we're nearly 50 people now, which do the same 375 00:17:49,599 - > 00:17:49,920 thing. 376 00:17:50,000 - > 00:17:52,799 Yeah, it's about listening to the customer, understanding 377 00:17:52,799 - > 00:17:55,839 their priorities, and then interpreting the data from their 378 00:17:55,839 - > 00:17:58,160 sites to make sure we hit their goals, basically. 379 00:17:58,319 - > 00:18:02,000 And um the exciting thing about the energy space is it's so fast 380 00:18:02,079 - > 00:18:03,759 moving from a technology perspective. 381 00:18:03,920 - > 00:18:06,720 So you know there's there's new there's new ideas and 382 00:18:06,720 - > 00:18:08,160 opportunities coming forward all the time. 383 00:18:08,559 - > 00:18:08,720 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Right. 384 00:18:08,799 - > 00:18:09,039 Yeah. 385 00:18:09,279 - > 00:18:14,319 So smooth talking, yes, but but I think that it was actually 386 00:18:14,319 - > 00:18:15,119 value that you can. 387 00:18:15,359 - > 00:18:19,680 You're not meant to agree with that one, but it's a on-site 388 00:18:19,680 - > 00:18:22,480 energy has grown to more than 90 million in assets under 389 00:18:22,480 - > 00:18:24,400 management in just four years. 390 00:18:24,720 - > 00:18:28,000 What were the most important early decisions that set the 391 00:18:28,000 - > 00:18:29,440 foundation for that kind of growth? 392 00:18:29,920 - > 00:18:32,079 SPEAKER_02: The main decision has been you've got a we've got 393 00:18:32,079 - > 00:18:35,680 an amazing investor uh family who are behind us. 394 00:18:36,319 - > 00:18:41,920 I think um we re they recognize at the outset that we um a lot a 395 00:18:41,920 - > 00:18:46,240 lot of businesses in our space um maybe focus on say winning 396 00:18:46,240 - > 00:18:49,759 the project with Ford, but then then they go out and fundraise. 397 00:18:49,920 - > 00:18:53,039 And and actually, you know, Ford actually has a deadline. 398 00:18:53,200 - > 00:18:56,079 Corporates, as soon as they make that decision to go, really they 399 00:18:56,079 - > 00:18:57,440 wanted delivered yesterday. 400 00:18:57,599 - > 00:19:02,000 And so the the ability to go out and or the ability to spend 401 00:19:02,000 - > 00:19:04,720 money as soon as they make that decision, or even knowing 402 00:19:04,720 - > 00:19:07,680 they're gonna make that decision and committing money to get it 403 00:19:07,759 - > 00:19:10,319 get ahead of the program and deliver on the program is really 404 00:19:10,319 - > 00:19:10,640 key. 405 00:19:10,799 - > 00:19:13,359 So, I mean, actually, we took the decision. 406 00:19:13,680 - > 00:19:17,440 One of the inhibitors that uh we'd sort of seen before was 407 00:19:17,440 - > 00:19:19,359 just the speed the banks move at. 408 00:19:19,519 - > 00:19:22,160 You know, the banks have their own time frames, they actually 409 00:19:22,160 - > 00:19:23,119 process things through. 410 00:19:23,200 - > 00:19:24,960 Um, and we couldn't wait for the banks. 411 00:19:25,119 - > 00:19:27,920 So actually, you know, one of the big decisions was the family 412 00:19:27,920 - > 00:19:30,880 capitalized us to be able to build the whole projects with 413 00:19:30,880 - > 00:19:33,359 completely with equity, not wait for the banks. 414 00:19:33,519 - > 00:19:35,839 And that was probably the foundational thing for me, 415 00:19:36,079 - > 00:19:38,000 because we really never looked back from that decision. 416 00:19:38,240 - > 00:19:41,759 Delivered, um I delivered three projects in that first year, all 417 00:19:41,759 - > 00:19:42,400 with equity. 418 00:19:42,480 - > 00:19:46,160 And you know, the bank funding came in six months later. 419 00:19:46,559 - > 00:19:49,839 So we'd have missed the deadlines before, you know, the 420 00:19:49,839 - > 00:19:51,119 thing wouldn't have happened. 421 00:19:51,200 - > 00:19:54,640 And so actually being properly capitalized at the outset and 422 00:19:54,960 - > 00:19:59,519 having a mature attitude to find where the finance is going to 423 00:19:59,519 - > 00:20:01,279 come was probably the most crucial thing. 424 00:20:01,359 - > 00:20:02,799 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Aaron Ross Powell You're asking large 425 00:20:02,799 - > 00:20:06,319 industrial businesses to trust a relatively young company with 426 00:20:06,319 - > 00:20:07,920 critical energy infrastructure. 427 00:20:08,160 - > 00:20:11,039 How do you overcome the credibility hurdle when buyers 428 00:20:11,039 - > 00:20:13,759 naturally lean toward established giants? 429 00:20:14,720 - > 00:20:17,200 SPEAKER_02: If ever you read Michael Moore's uh book, 430 00:20:17,359 - > 00:20:20,720 Crossing the Chasm, it's often used in the software sector. 431 00:20:20,880 - > 00:20:24,319 It's I think a classic from Silicon Valley, the the crossing 432 00:20:24,319 - > 00:20:25,119 the chasm thing. 433 00:20:25,279 - > 00:20:27,680 It was something that was drilled home to me when I was at 434 00:20:27,680 - > 00:20:28,000 Jable. 435 00:20:28,400 - > 00:20:31,440 Every product goes through an innovation cycle or an adoption 436 00:20:31,440 - > 00:20:31,759 cycle. 437 00:20:31,839 - > 00:20:35,039 And, you know, the first people who adopted the things are the 438 00:20:35,039 - > 00:20:38,400 absolute people with, you know, absolute tech nerds and and 439 00:20:38,400 - > 00:20:41,599 innovators who who were willing to try a product even though 440 00:20:41,599 - > 00:20:44,000 it's you know untested, unproven. 441 00:20:44,160 - > 00:20:45,119 And that's where we are. 442 00:20:45,359 - > 00:20:49,759 Energy services and energy as a service is a is a product that's 443 00:20:49,759 - > 00:20:51,680 been going through an innovation cycle. 444 00:20:51,839 - > 00:20:55,359 We started off, and really what we had to do was identify those 445 00:20:55,359 - > 00:20:58,160 companies at that stage that were prepared to take a risk on 446 00:20:58,160 - > 00:21:02,160 us and you know and had a had a had a need that they needed to 447 00:21:02,160 - > 00:21:04,799 fulfill and couldn't find another way to fulfill it. 448 00:21:05,119 - > 00:21:08,160 So that was that was the sort of limited market that we had 449 00:21:08,160 - > 00:21:09,440 available to us at that time. 450 00:21:09,599 - > 00:21:12,720 What we've done since then to breach that credibility gap is 451 00:21:12,880 - > 00:21:15,599 done a lot a lot of things around thought leadership and 452 00:21:15,680 - > 00:21:20,000 and um getting articles out there about how companies can 453 00:21:20,000 - > 00:21:22,160 address their their energy requirements. 454 00:21:22,319 - > 00:21:25,680 We've broken a lot of stories on on new approaches and new 455 00:21:25,680 - > 00:21:26,400 technologies. 456 00:21:26,559 - > 00:21:29,759 Um and of course, now we've got a lot of reference sites, and so 457 00:21:29,759 - > 00:21:32,480 there's nothing better than actually bringing prospective 458 00:21:32,480 - > 00:21:35,839 customers to a site you built and them realizing they could 459 00:21:35,839 - > 00:21:38,640 have one, and it's it's quite different in their mindset to 460 00:21:38,640 - > 00:21:39,519 what they'd expected. 461 00:21:39,599 - > 00:21:42,559 And actually, to speak to the facility manager of the place 462 00:21:42,640 - > 00:21:46,720 we've we've implemented it and for him to tell them their his 463 00:21:46,720 - > 00:21:49,920 experience of working with us and you know how well the system 464 00:21:49,920 - > 00:21:52,559 is working and so on is just absolutely invaluable. 465 00:21:52,720 - > 00:21:56,240 I think of the first open day we had at Ford, actually, I think 466 00:21:56,240 - > 00:21:59,759 we sent out something like 70 invitations, we got 50 accepted. 467 00:22:00,000 - > 00:22:03,599 acceptances and I think we got about six new customers straight 468 00:22:03,680 - > 00:22:04,480 away from that. 469 00:22:04,720 - > 00:22:06,559 So um yeah no I think that's it. 470 00:22:06,720 - > 00:22:09,839 You've got to you've got to prove you you're actually not 471 00:22:09,920 - > 00:22:13,279 you're you're walking the talk, not just talking it and um it's 472 00:22:13,279 - > 00:22:14,400 not just vaporware. 473 00:22:14,559 - > 00:22:17,920 So it's about real valid opinions and and the more you 474 00:22:17,920 - > 00:22:20,799 build credibility of those sort of things, the easier it is to 475 00:22:20,799 - > 00:22:21,519 sell to be honest. 476 00:22:21,680 - > 00:22:24,960 So our jobs becoming easier and easier as it goes forward and 477 00:22:24,960 - > 00:22:27,839 obviously it's being enabled by the business model we have as 478 00:22:27,839 - > 00:22:28,000 well. 479 00:22:28,240 - > 00:22:28,480 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Okay. 480 00:22:28,640 - > 00:22:30,559 Now you said a couple of interesting things. 481 00:22:30,720 - > 00:22:33,039 For one, you said you're established you establish 482 00:22:33,119 - > 00:22:35,440 yourself for your company as a as a thought leader. 483 00:22:35,599 - > 00:22:39,519 So are you yourself the one who is out there publishing and and 484 00:22:39,519 - > 00:22:42,000 moving that you know conversation forward or do you 485 00:22:42,000 - > 00:22:45,759 have experts within your engineers who are creating that 486 00:22:45,759 - > 00:22:49,440 conversation around um innovation and in the energy 487 00:22:49,440 - > 00:22:49,759 space? 488 00:22:50,640 - > 00:22:53,839 SPEAKER_02: It started off as be as me you know and obviously I 489 00:22:53,839 - > 00:22:57,119 I'd had the background in Jable and and investigating all these 490 00:22:57,119 - > 00:22:58,480 emerging energy technologies. 491 00:22:58,559 - > 00:23:01,440 So I had quite a good good background to to call upon. 492 00:23:01,680 - > 00:23:05,440 What's been really nice is we've actually um we've taken on a lot 493 00:23:05,440 - > 00:23:08,880 of engineers in our team now um even some younger younger 494 00:23:08,880 - > 00:23:12,160 graduates from universities and so on and it's been fantastic 495 00:23:12,160 - > 00:23:14,000 for them to start writing these articles. 496 00:23:14,240 - > 00:23:18,160 The team discusses the things we want to put out as themes now. 497 00:23:18,319 - > 00:23:19,920 So it's not just driven by me. 498 00:23:20,400 - > 00:23:22,000 We see opportunities in the market. 499 00:23:22,160 - > 00:23:25,680 We get um briefings on regulatory changes coming our 500 00:23:25,680 - > 00:23:26,720 way and things like this. 501 00:23:26,880 - > 00:23:29,920 So yeah we we've got a lot more to talk about now but no it's 502 00:23:30,000 - > 00:23:34,160 it's about staying topical and and understanding the needs of 503 00:23:34,160 - > 00:23:37,359 our customers and giving them advice you know related to that. 504 00:23:37,440 - > 00:23:39,920 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: So yeah no it's a a great marketing 505 00:23:39,920 - > 00:23:42,480 strategy and and I mean publishing those on you know 506 00:23:42,559 - > 00:23:46,079 whether it's uh your website blog press release or or 507 00:23:46,079 - > 00:23:49,519 distributing it throughout newsletter et cetera but that's 508 00:23:49,519 - > 00:23:52,319 a great strategy to start starting to appreciate the value 509 00:23:52,319 - > 00:23:53,279 of podcasts as well. 510 00:23:53,680 - > 00:23:56,559 Yeah yeah podcasts and it's all about content these days it's 511 00:23:56,559 - > 00:23:59,759 how people find you and it it's that credibility score right it 512 00:23:59,759 - > 00:24:04,240 is yeah exactly now you've described your company as more 513 00:24:04,240 - > 00:24:07,200 agile and entrepreneurial than larger competitors. 514 00:24:07,440 - > 00:24:10,640 In practice how does that agility translate into better 515 00:24:10,640 - > 00:24:12,079 outcomes for customers? 516 00:24:12,799 - > 00:24:15,440 SPEAKER_02: Yeah we we try to pride ourselves on speed of 517 00:24:15,440 - > 00:24:18,319 response so ideally you know when and we hear this because 518 00:24:18,400 - > 00:24:21,440 we've we've recruited a lot of people from larger companies we 519 00:24:21,440 - > 00:24:24,799 can typically turn around data and go back to a customer with a 520 00:24:24,799 - > 00:24:29,759 proposition within two weeks uh we often the the the the the 521 00:24:29,759 - > 00:24:32,880 stories or anecdotes I'm getting is that could be you know two 522 00:24:32,960 - > 00:24:34,799 three months before anybody comes back. 523 00:24:34,960 - > 00:24:37,039 And equally we make decisions very fast. 524 00:24:37,119 - > 00:24:40,880 So we've got a very short short line of decision making so you 525 00:24:40,880 - > 00:24:44,000 know we can we can make a decision to back a um back a 526 00:24:44,000 - > 00:24:48,160 company back a back a um a concept we're putting out within 527 00:24:48,160 - > 00:24:51,920 a week in terms of you know sign off from our board and and so 528 00:24:51,920 - > 00:24:52,079 on. 529 00:24:52,240 - > 00:24:56,480 So yeah we we we're out there trying to um I say I think we're 530 00:24:56,480 - > 00:24:59,680 trying to develop more innovative solutions still we 531 00:24:59,680 - > 00:25:03,039 try to live by sort of speed of response quality response and uh 532 00:25:03,200 - > 00:25:07,200 innovation um in in a as our sort of core core principles. 533 00:25:07,359 - > 00:25:10,240 In fact there's a there's a fourth we've added on which is 534 00:25:10,240 - > 00:25:14,000 actually um um I'm trying to remember it now it's uh it's uh 535 00:25:14,240 - > 00:25:18,240 it it's uh about improvement as well so trying to improve the 536 00:25:18,240 - > 00:25:21,519 projects we've done during the lifestyle during the life of the 537 00:25:21,519 - > 00:25:24,880 projects as well so we're trying to better them so yeah we d we 538 00:25:24,880 - > 00:25:27,920 try to live by those principles we actually have KPIs to track 539 00:25:27,920 - > 00:25:30,799 ourselves against those principles and um we try to make 540 00:25:30,799 - > 00:25:33,519 sure that whatever we're doing in the organizations we grow, we 541 00:25:33,519 - > 00:25:35,119 try to stay true to those principles. 542 00:25:35,279 - > 00:25:38,240 Yeah it's about it's about speed engagement and quality 543 00:25:38,400 - > 00:25:40,319 engagement so that people understand it. 544 00:25:40,640 - > 00:25:42,079 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Speed quality and like you said those 545 00:25:42,079 - > 00:25:45,519 KPIs being able to track your your outcome so it's not just 546 00:25:45,599 - > 00:25:48,480 you know it's talk, it's actual tangible results. 547 00:25:48,640 - > 00:25:49,680 SPEAKER_02: Right yeah exactly. 548 00:25:50,079 - > 00:25:51,599 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: You mentioned that you have open 549 00:25:51,599 - > 00:25:55,759 houses or tour tours that you do like at at a site after and so 550 00:25:55,759 - > 00:25:58,559 it's I mean there's not a security issue or companies are 551 00:25:58,559 - > 00:25:58,960 open to that. 552 00:25:59,279 - > 00:26:02,160 SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean we've generally got a um a secure yeah 553 00:26:02,240 - > 00:26:05,599 we've got a compound of something we we are that our 554 00:26:05,599 - > 00:26:09,599 host company has allowed us to have um we generally lease that 555 00:26:09,599 - > 00:26:10,000 area. 556 00:26:10,559 - > 00:26:13,359 So yeah of course the sensitivity about going within 557 00:26:13,359 - > 00:26:16,720 the factory and um they don't want you know there's obviously 558 00:26:16,880 - > 00:26:20,640 sensitive manufacturing processes can be going on but um 559 00:26:20,880 - > 00:26:24,480 generally we're located outside of the main building we have a 560 00:26:24,480 - > 00:26:28,079 compound round around the back and um our energy center is 561 00:26:28,079 - > 00:26:31,279 usually within a um but it's usually within a secure 562 00:26:31,279 - > 00:26:34,880 perimeter that the factory's in so we don't have problems with 563 00:26:34,960 - > 00:26:38,960 you know strangers wandering into our facilities we we lock 564 00:26:38,960 - > 00:26:42,559 our facilities anyway but um yeah no it it's it's usually by 565 00:26:42,559 - > 00:26:45,519 prior agreement you know we're just um for instance doing an 566 00:26:45,519 - > 00:26:48,799 event in a week or so at a customer site where we're 567 00:26:48,799 - > 00:26:51,839 hosting actually uh the whole of the society of motor 568 00:26:51,839 - > 00:26:56,319 manufacturers in the UK coming to a to a to a motor site a 569 00:26:56,319 - > 00:26:59,599 manufacturing site and of course there's commercial sensitivities 570 00:26:59,599 - > 00:27:02,079 there but we've agreed the program and where they can be 571 00:27:02,079 - > 00:27:05,200 taken and what they can be seen shown and so on in terms of the 572 00:27:05,200 - > 00:27:06,559 equipment we've implemented. 573 00:27:06,640 - > 00:27:09,839 But um we find most of our hosts are quite proud of showing off 574 00:27:09,839 - > 00:27:13,680 what we've done actually so okay yeah I guess it it benefits them 575 00:27:13,680 - > 00:27:15,440 to show off their capabilities as well. 576 00:27:15,599 - > 00:27:16,640 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: I think it's a brilliant market 577 00:27:16,880 - > 00:27:20,400 marketing strategy as well to invite people to an event and 578 00:27:20,400 - > 00:27:24,079 show them what what you've created and and uh and the 579 00:27:24,079 - > 00:27:24,559 capabilities. 580 00:27:25,119 - > 00:27:27,599 SPEAKER_02: I think often you know company directors or or 581 00:27:27,759 - > 00:27:31,279 sustainability don't have a clear mental picture of what it 582 00:27:31,279 - > 00:27:32,960 is you're proposing to them. 583 00:27:33,279 - > 00:27:35,759 You can put it show it in pictures to them and so on but 584 00:27:35,759 - > 00:27:39,759 until they actually visit a facility it doesn't somehow it 585 00:27:39,759 - > 00:27:42,640 doesn't become real to them and then suddenly it all clicks into 586 00:27:42,640 - > 00:27:45,839 place that actually this isn't this huge commitment, you know, 587 00:27:46,000 - > 00:27:49,359 or this it isn't this huge area of land that they need to to 588 00:27:49,359 - > 00:27:52,640 commit to this it actually can be quite small and and uh it 589 00:27:52,640 - > 00:27:53,200 works pretty well. 590 00:27:53,519 - > 00:27:55,599 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah like show and tell it really connects 591 00:27:55,839 - > 00:28:02,000 the concepts to the results and right very very much so for 592 00:28:02,000 - > 00:28:05,440 listeners who may not know how the model works how does a zero 593 00:28:05,440 - > 00:28:08,799 capex off balance sheet energy solution actually work? 594 00:28:09,039 - > 00:28:12,000 Like you were mentioning you know that strategy before and 595 00:28:12,000 - > 00:28:15,759 why is that so compelling for energy intensive manufacturers? 596 00:28:16,160 - > 00:28:20,400 SPEAKER_02: So so um typically the out the output that we 597 00:28:20,400 - > 00:28:24,640 present to to a customer with a with the concept is is an 598 00:28:24,640 - > 00:28:28,720 analysis showing them um how much electricity they currently 599 00:28:28,720 - > 00:28:31,680 consume, how much gas they currently consume or other fuels 600 00:28:31,680 - > 00:28:34,799 they currently consume the costs of that and their current their 601 00:28:34,799 - > 00:28:37,279 current utility costs as as column one. 602 00:28:37,599 - > 00:28:41,279 Column two is basically a column that says this is how it changes 603 00:28:41,279 - > 00:28:44,480 if you go down the route of uh you you funding the capex 604 00:28:44,720 - > 00:28:45,119 yourselves. 605 00:28:45,279 - > 00:28:48,880 And so you know they can see the implications of that they can 606 00:28:48,880 - > 00:28:52,160 see the savings in terms of um the energy costs and they can 607 00:28:52,160 - > 00:28:54,559 see the capex value and they can see a payback. 608 00:28:54,640 - > 00:28:56,319 It's a very straightforward comparison. 609 00:28:56,480 - > 00:28:59,680 And then typically we have two other columns to the side and 610 00:28:59,680 - > 00:29:03,440 these are the two columns where we fund the the solution and it 611 00:29:03,440 - > 00:29:06,720 might be that we give them an illustration over 10 years or 15 612 00:29:06,720 - > 00:29:09,359 years or whatever the right durations are. 613 00:29:09,599 - > 00:29:14,319 But they can see side by side the options of stay as you are 614 00:29:14,559 - > 00:29:17,359 fund it yourself or us fund it and and so on. 615 00:29:17,440 - > 00:29:21,519 And the most notable things are we we we pay for all the 616 00:29:21,680 - > 00:29:25,039 maintenance on the site if we do a zero capex solution. 617 00:29:25,200 - > 00:29:28,720 So we we fund we maintain our assets we take performance risk 618 00:29:28,720 - > 00:29:32,720 in our assets um we take responsibility for that so the 619 00:29:32,720 - > 00:29:36,400 only way we get paid is through delivering kilowatts to the 620 00:29:36,400 - > 00:29:40,480 customer and also the key point is that those that kilowatt 621 00:29:40,559 - > 00:29:41,680 value is known to them. 622 00:29:42,480 - > 00:29:45,279 We actually set the price of the of what how we're going to 623 00:29:45,279 - > 00:29:46,240 charge at the outset. 624 00:29:46,480 - > 00:29:49,200 You might ask you know where do we make money in this because 625 00:29:49,279 - > 00:29:52,559 obviously the r the rate per kilowatt is um less than the 626 00:29:52,559 - > 00:29:54,799 rate they're paying from the grid and yet we're paying all 627 00:29:54,799 - > 00:29:57,920 this money out to spend you know for to fund the capital. 628 00:29:58,480 - > 00:30:01,680 And it's really down to the operating efficiencies we're 629 00:30:01,839 - > 00:30:05,680 we're we're finding you know to generate say power on site um 630 00:30:05,839 - > 00:30:09,759 it's it's a lot it's a lot you know that efficiency is captured 631 00:30:09,759 - > 00:30:10,240 on site. 632 00:30:10,319 - > 00:30:14,000 You know so if you're putting in a gas engine say it's 88% 633 00:30:14,319 - > 00:30:17,359 efficient or thereabouts you deliver that power into the into 634 00:30:17,359 - > 00:30:21,440 the facility using gas as a as a fuel source and you still have 635 00:30:21,440 - > 00:30:23,920 all the heat to use on the facility which you don't with 636 00:30:23,920 - > 00:30:26,960 grid generation that heat gets wasted at the power station. 637 00:30:27,119 - > 00:30:30,240 So there's there's opportunities to do that and often when you 638 00:30:30,240 - > 00:30:35,759 are generating on site what they call behind the meter if if your 639 00:30:35,759 - > 00:30:39,839 viewers look at their energy bills they'll see two sets of 640 00:30:39,839 - > 00:30:43,839 charges basically or three three main categories of charges. 641 00:30:44,000 - > 00:30:47,359 They'll see a fixed charge sort of standing charge for their for 642 00:30:47,359 - > 00:30:51,279 their connection if you like their their capacity they'll see 643 00:30:51,279 - > 00:30:54,079 a charge that's rated per kilowatt for the energy they're 644 00:30:54,079 - > 00:30:58,480 actually consuming and they'll see a lot of other charges that 645 00:30:58,480 - > 00:31:02,160 are also charged per kilowatt which tend to be things like 646 00:31:02,160 - > 00:31:06,160 government subsidy recharges third party charges for use of 647 00:31:06,160 - > 00:31:09,599 grid transmission and things like this and certainly one of 648 00:31:09,599 - > 00:31:12,160 the challenges we have in Europe whether it's the same in the US 649 00:31:12,240 - > 00:31:16,240 I don't know but that energy bill could be 60% made of of 650 00:31:16,240 - > 00:31:20,160 third party charges and grid grid transmission charges. 651 00:31:20,400 - > 00:31:23,440 So if you're doing it behind the meter you avoid it all so you've 652 00:31:23,440 - > 00:31:26,640 immediately got a 60% discount on your bill and plus 653 00:31:26,640 - > 00:31:27,359 efficiency. 654 00:31:27,680 - > 00:31:31,680 And so what we what we do is we use some of that money the 655 00:31:31,759 - > 00:31:34,880 efficiency savings to effectively pay for our capex 656 00:31:35,119 - > 00:31:36,480 and our return on capital. 657 00:31:36,720 - > 00:31:40,000 So it's a great solution you know behind the meter really 658 00:31:40,000 - > 00:31:43,680 works for many manufacturers um it gives them control over their 659 00:31:43,680 - > 00:31:47,839 destiny it makes them more energy autonomous um it it it 660 00:31:47,839 - > 00:31:51,039 solves a lot of problems for people but they don't corporates 661 00:31:51,039 - > 00:31:51,519 don't do it. 662 00:31:51,599 - > 00:31:54,240 They think the only way to energy is to buy energy through 663 00:31:54,240 - > 00:31:55,440 a broker and through the grid. 664 00:31:55,680 - > 00:31:56,480 No is the answer. 665 00:31:56,640 - > 00:32:00,400 It's much more efficient to take control of your own destiny and 666 00:32:00,400 - > 00:32:03,359 and generate as much of your own energy as you can on site. 667 00:32:03,440 - > 00:32:07,119 It's it's a way to reliable operating costs is a and so on. 668 00:32:07,279 - > 00:32:11,119 So there's a lot of other advantages to doing it through 669 00:32:11,200 - > 00:32:13,200 through a PPA like like this. 670 00:32:13,279 - > 00:32:16,400 You know, it avoids capital replacement cycles when you've 671 00:32:16,400 - > 00:32:20,240 got the equipment is wearing out you know steam boilers become 672 00:32:20,240 - > 00:32:23,119 gradually less and less efficient and the older they get 673 00:32:23,200 - > 00:32:28,400 you know see a lot companies say working with a you know a 30-40 674 00:32:28,480 - > 00:32:32,160 year old steam boiler is probably only 60% efficient so 675 00:32:32,160 - > 00:32:36,079 that 40% of this inefficiency is going up as wasted heat that 676 00:32:36,079 - > 00:32:38,400 they're getting no value for and yet they're paying for all that 677 00:32:38,400 - > 00:32:38,640 gas. 678 00:32:38,720 - > 00:32:41,759 You know just replacing it suddenly get a 30% efficiency 679 00:32:41,759 - > 00:32:42,079 gain. 680 00:32:42,240 - > 00:32:45,920 There's a lot of things like that that people don't spot and 681 00:32:45,920 - > 00:32:49,599 yet it can be funded through a zero capex PPA in the same way. 682 00:32:49,680 - > 00:32:53,200 You know we we can charge for kilowatts of electricity or we 683 00:32:53,200 - > 00:32:56,640 can charge for you know kilograms of steel steam or 684 00:32:56,640 - > 00:32:59,759 pounds of steam in the US I guess it's um that's how it 685 00:32:59,759 - > 00:33:00,000 works. 686 00:33:00,319 - > 00:33:00,559 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 687 00:33:00,720 - > 00:33:04,480 So do you think there's a lack of awareness for this type of 688 00:33:04,640 - > 00:33:04,880 model? 689 00:33:05,440 - > 00:33:07,680 SPEAKER_02: Yeah I think so and it I think it's it's becoming 690 00:33:07,680 - > 00:33:09,279 more and more understood now. 691 00:33:10,000 - > 00:33:13,519 I think there was a reticence of doing these things I think um I 692 00:33:13,519 - > 00:33:17,359 think again there was a very common understanding or um view 693 00:33:17,519 - > 00:33:21,039 that a PPA is just 25 years solar PPA and doesn't really 694 00:33:21,039 - > 00:33:23,680 apply to us because it's it's solar solar has very little 695 00:33:23,680 - > 00:33:25,440 impact and 25 years is too long. 696 00:33:25,599 - > 00:33:28,319 Now I think people can appreciate you can do pretty 697 00:33:28,319 - > 00:33:31,759 much any energy technology any energy efficiency technology 698 00:33:31,759 - > 00:33:35,680 investment any electrification investment through a PPA. 699 00:33:35,839 - > 00:33:39,519 And you know the shortest PPAs so far we've actually done for 700 00:33:39,519 - > 00:33:42,000 Ford and we did an eight year PPA. 701 00:33:42,240 - > 00:33:46,400 So Ford um and I explain why eight years with it's actually a 702 00:33:46,400 - > 00:33:47,920 better deal for most manufacturers. 703 00:33:48,000 - > 00:33:50,960 They don't take as much savings because we've got to recoup the 704 00:33:50,960 - > 00:33:53,759 capital investment over a shorter period at the front end. 705 00:33:53,839 - > 00:33:54,000 Yeah. 706 00:33:54,240 - > 00:33:56,960 But at the end of eight years they step into full ownership 707 00:33:57,039 - > 00:34:00,720 and so it's like they've stepped into the capex benefits of of 708 00:34:00,720 - > 00:34:05,759 the the assets from year nine onwards and so it's a much it's 709 00:34:05,759 - > 00:34:09,599 a huge boost to their you know their energy costs at that point 710 00:34:09,679 - > 00:34:12,480 so their opex costs dri you know drop off a cliff. 711 00:34:12,719 - > 00:34:15,199 And so they've seen that as a real benefit. 712 00:34:15,360 - > 00:34:18,880 So yeah sure short term is actually better than long term 713 00:34:18,960 - > 00:34:22,000 even though you don't take as many short-term savings depends 714 00:34:22,000 - > 00:34:25,039 on the corporate whether they want to maximize savings in the 715 00:34:25,039 - > 00:34:28,400 short term and take a longer perspective to earn that but 716 00:34:28,480 - > 00:34:32,320 yeah that's that's a decision they have to take it yeah David 717 00:34:32,480 - > 00:34:35,679 you work across sectors including automotive food 718 00:34:35,679 - > 00:34:39,360 manufacturing chemicals pharma semiconductors and building 719 00:34:39,360 - > 00:34:42,320 materials what makes a company the right fit for on-site 720 00:34:42,320 - > 00:34:45,519 energies model energy intensive usually you know they're the 721 00:34:45,679 - > 00:34:48,960 high energy consumers on the side both generally both 722 00:34:48,960 - > 00:34:51,679 electricity and gas um that might mean they they 723 00:34:51,840 - > 00:34:55,199 particularly obviously energy intensive processes um or 724 00:34:55,360 - > 00:34:58,239 there's a there's a there's a particular climate they have to 725 00:34:58,239 - > 00:35:01,920 achieve within the building so air conditioning and humidity 726 00:35:01,920 - > 00:35:05,119 management and so on is is is a critical part of what they do. 727 00:35:05,199 - > 00:35:07,840 And it's often one of the things you walk into a building and you 728 00:35:07,840 - > 00:35:10,639 you don't appreciate you feel comfortable in a building but 729 00:35:10,639 - > 00:35:13,679 the infrastructure that goes into making you feel comfortable 730 00:35:13,840 - > 00:35:16,800 or making the machines operate in the right climate is is 731 00:35:16,960 - > 00:35:18,800 usually one of the biggest energy loads. 732 00:35:18,880 - > 00:35:24,079 But I mean no a a a a great right fit customer for us is 733 00:35:24,079 - > 00:35:28,960 generally a um a a multinational multi-site operation essentially 734 00:35:29,039 - > 00:35:31,519 with lots of different e each site can be different. 735 00:35:31,679 - > 00:35:34,639 Each site usually is different you know they're all laid out 736 00:35:34,719 - > 00:35:37,440 physically different they've done slightly different things 737 00:35:37,599 - > 00:35:41,119 they um have different utility costs different profiles 738 00:35:41,199 - > 00:35:44,960 different climates and so on so so we love that challenge. 739 00:35:45,039 - > 00:35:49,119 There's no one one size fits all but a multinational multi-site 740 00:35:49,360 - > 00:35:52,239 customer is the ideal for us and somebody who's spending a lot of 741 00:35:52,239 - > 00:35:53,039 money on energy. 742 00:35:53,360 - > 00:35:53,679 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 743 00:35:53,920 - > 00:35:56,880 And like you mentioned you're not just helping with solar or 744 00:35:56,880 - > 00:35:59,519 generation you're also supporting electrification 745 00:35:59,679 - > 00:36:02,400 efficiency and broader decarbonization strategy. 746 00:36:02,639 - > 00:36:04,960 SPEAKER_02: How do you decide which mix of solutions will 747 00:36:04,960 - > 00:36:09,760 create the biggest impact for a given customer data we I think 748 00:36:09,760 - > 00:36:12,079 one of the things that sets us apart when people understand is 749 00:36:12,079 - > 00:36:13,119 we're not a product business. 750 00:36:13,280 - > 00:36:16,320 We're not tasked with selling X amount of solar panels each 751 00:36:16,320 - > 00:36:19,679 month and you know trying to maximize the amount of solar we 752 00:36:19,679 - > 00:36:23,519 put on a roof or or whatever we look at what is the best answer 753 00:36:23,519 - > 00:36:24,239 for the customer. 754 00:36:24,400 - > 00:36:27,599 And that's usually it's it's delving into not only the 755 00:36:27,599 - > 00:36:30,719 quantity of electricity or gas they consume, but understanding 756 00:36:30,719 - > 00:36:33,119 why it's being consumed and what is going on. 757 00:36:33,280 - > 00:36:36,719 So once we understand particularly on on um say heat 758 00:36:36,880 - > 00:36:39,760 that is going on I don't know producing steam at a particular 759 00:36:39,760 - > 00:36:44,159 pressure or or it's going into ovens or is going into healing 760 00:36:44,159 - > 00:36:47,760 processes or tempering processes or whatever we can start to to 761 00:36:47,760 - > 00:36:50,239 understand the potential solutions we can have to 762 00:36:50,239 - > 00:36:54,239 mitigate that that fossil fuel load and on and alternative ways 763 00:36:54,239 - > 00:36:55,360 to generate the power. 764 00:36:55,519 - > 00:36:59,119 If we we almost look at each factory as a as a black box and 765 00:36:59,119 - > 00:37:02,800 the black box tends to be supplied with grid electricity 766 00:37:02,880 - > 00:37:06,800 uh a steam boiler house or some of those facilities we try to 767 00:37:06,800 - > 00:37:10,480 look at ways we can actually generate those inputs much more 768 00:37:10,480 - > 00:37:12,719 cost effectively or with lower carbon. 769 00:37:12,880 - > 00:37:15,519 You know our challenge becomes that we we try to look at the 770 00:37:15,519 - > 00:37:19,920 physical layout and the data to to understand what we can do 771 00:37:19,920 - > 00:37:20,639 with the impact. 772 00:37:20,800 - > 00:37:24,639 So you know often in a large in a large um manufacturing site 773 00:37:24,880 - > 00:37:28,239 you might cover it with solar and yeah it would meet four or 774 00:37:28,239 - > 00:37:30,960 five six percent of the energy demand on the site it really 775 00:37:30,960 - > 00:37:32,480 doesn't doesn't move the needle. 776 00:37:33,199 - > 00:37:35,360 We're generally looking for something that really moves the 777 00:37:35,360 - > 00:37:37,599 needle and makes it an interesting project for the 778 00:37:37,599 - > 00:37:38,159 company as well. 779 00:37:38,559 - > 00:37:40,480 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah but you have a lot of tools at your 780 00:37:40,480 - > 00:37:43,679 disposal and so like you mentioned so you're customizing 781 00:37:43,679 - > 00:37:47,199 each um project according to the needs of the customer. 782 00:37:47,599 - > 00:37:50,559 Now you've also mentioned helping major customers work 783 00:37:50,559 - > 00:37:53,360 into their supply chains, especially around scope three 784 00:37:53,360 - > 00:37:53,840 emissions. 785 00:37:54,000 - > 00:37:57,119 How big of an opportunity is that and how does it change the 786 00:37:57,119 - > 00:37:58,639 role you or your company can play? 787 00:37:58,719 - > 00:38:01,039 SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell maybe some of you might not be 788 00:38:01,039 - > 00:38:04,239 totally familiar with scope one, two, and three scope one is 789 00:38:04,239 - > 00:38:08,480 generally sort of um fossil fuel gas-based type emissions where 790 00:38:08,480 - > 00:38:12,159 where you build you're burning, I don't know, fuel fuel oils and 791 00:38:12,159 - > 00:38:17,039 gas and so on to in in your factory physically on site. 792 00:38:17,280 - > 00:38:20,800 Scope two is sort of bought in basically grid electricity and 793 00:38:20,800 - > 00:38:24,480 so on the the quantities and the carbon intensity of that that is 794 00:38:24,559 - > 00:38:25,119 being supplied. 795 00:38:25,360 - > 00:38:29,119 Scope scope three is basically the emissions from your shall we 796 00:38:29,119 - > 00:38:32,400 say non-site activity so typically it's transportation 797 00:38:32,480 - > 00:38:33,840 but it's also supply chain. 798 00:38:33,920 - > 00:38:36,960 So many corporates define I think it's one of the the the 799 00:38:37,199 - > 00:38:40,800 the scopes and uh is it's maybe less defined than others and 800 00:38:40,800 - > 00:38:43,679 about how far you you go and depending on the corporate 801 00:38:43,679 - > 00:38:46,559 policy some of them take a lot of responsibility for the carbon 802 00:38:46,559 - > 00:38:50,159 footprint of their entire supply chain some of them limit it to 803 00:38:50,719 - > 00:38:51,599 movements or whatever. 804 00:38:51,760 - > 00:38:54,880 But certainly a lot of our automotive clients take the 805 00:38:54,880 - > 00:38:58,719 supply chain emissions quite quite uh seriously but it's also 806 00:38:59,360 - > 00:39:04,239 uh many people's um uh sort of decarbonisation so far has been 807 00:39:04,239 - > 00:39:09,119 uh focused on scope two and scope one either buying buying 808 00:39:09,119 - > 00:39:12,239 offsets which is not a great long-term strategy or or or 809 00:39:12,239 - > 00:39:15,199 actually doing energy efficiency projects on scope one and two 810 00:39:15,519 - > 00:39:19,360 generally scope three they're at a much earlier stage in terms of 811 00:39:19,360 - > 00:39:22,880 their um their decisions on what to do and you know the challenge 812 00:39:22,880 - > 00:39:25,679 you've got there is you've actually got to measure it first 813 00:39:25,679 - > 00:39:28,639 of all so actually you've got to get the collaboration of your 814 00:39:28,639 - > 00:39:31,840 supply chain to report in a particular way you've then got 815 00:39:31,840 - > 00:39:36,079 to start tracking it and also you're not in a position to make 816 00:39:36,079 - > 00:39:39,440 the supply chain make changes quite often. 817 00:39:39,599 - > 00:39:43,119 You know it's down to that that company in the supply chain to 818 00:39:43,119 - > 00:39:46,719 make the investment decision to do something or or to identify 819 00:39:46,719 - > 00:39:47,039 something. 820 00:39:47,199 - > 00:39:50,400 So certainly some of our larger customers now who have very 821 00:39:50,400 - > 00:39:54,320 mature sophisticated supply chain programs so things like in 822 00:39:54,320 - > 00:39:57,519 the automotive sector they have supplier days now where they 823 00:39:57,519 - > 00:40:00,239 bring suppliers in and maybe run them through all their 824 00:40:00,239 - > 00:40:03,760 sustainability goals and you know explain the support they'll 825 00:40:03,760 - > 00:40:07,519 give them towards achieving sustainability goals and some of 826 00:40:07,519 - > 00:40:10,559 those are now starting to refer us in because you know we can 827 00:40:10,559 - > 00:40:14,079 actually we're effectively a free a free method of putting 828 00:40:14,079 - > 00:40:17,280 innovation into the supply chain and us funding the measures for 829 00:40:17,280 - > 00:40:18,880 the supply chain to adopt as well. 830 00:40:19,119 - > 00:40:23,119 So I think that's that's how we're um we're starting to be 831 00:40:23,119 - > 00:40:26,960 recognized and used as a as a really valuable partner for 832 00:40:26,960 - > 00:40:30,960 decarbonizing supply chain as well and doing the same job we 833 00:40:31,119 - > 00:40:34,239 do with the principal customer but actually just a level down. 834 00:40:34,559 - > 00:40:34,800 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 835 00:40:35,039 - > 00:40:35,280 Okay. 836 00:40:35,360 - > 00:40:38,000 Yeah that's very interesting that was all all new to me 837 00:40:38,159 - > 00:40:40,800 learning about the different scopes and yeah it's like okay 838 00:40:40,880 - > 00:40:45,280 how do you become responsible for you know reducing the the 839 00:40:45,280 - > 00:40:50,320 emissions of of your supply chain but I that makes sense you 840 00:40:50,320 - > 00:40:53,280 bring them in and you educate them and you offer them 841 00:40:53,280 - > 00:40:55,440 resources and and services like yours. 842 00:40:55,599 - > 00:40:58,239 SPEAKER_02: Yeah and an ex an example also I mean we worked 843 00:40:58,239 - > 00:41:01,599 with a bakery client recently and um and we suddenly we 844 00:41:01,599 - > 00:41:04,480 spotted some temporary refrigeration units on site so 845 00:41:04,480 - > 00:41:06,960 they were actually freezing goods that are coming out of the 846 00:41:06,960 - > 00:41:10,239 factory, putting onto pallets, freezing them and then there's a 847 00:41:10,239 - > 00:41:12,480 constant stream of lorries coming in and out. 848 00:41:12,639 - > 00:41:15,519 And it turned out you know they had a they had a tiny capacity 849 00:41:15,519 - > 00:41:19,679 on site for storage and and yet they were shipping they had 850 00:41:19,679 - > 00:41:23,920 something like 11,000 pallets in cold storage about you know 15, 851 00:41:24,159 - > 00:41:24,960 20 miles away. 852 00:41:25,199 - > 00:41:27,840 An example of scope three emissions is all those lorry 853 00:41:27,840 - > 00:41:30,559 movements that they're going backwards and forwards and and 854 00:41:30,559 - > 00:41:35,199 all that third party cold store energy emissions cost is part of 855 00:41:35,199 - > 00:41:36,400 their scope three. 856 00:41:36,639 - > 00:41:40,320 So as an example we actually came up with an alternative 857 00:41:40,320 - > 00:41:43,360 strategy which was to build them a bigger cold store themselves 858 00:41:43,360 - > 00:41:43,920 on site. 859 00:41:44,000 - > 00:41:47,840 And so which actually gave them much more production flexibility 860 00:41:47,840 - > 00:41:51,679 and ability to hold you know key ingredients which they otherwise 861 00:41:51,679 - > 00:41:52,000 couldn't. 862 00:41:52,159 - > 00:41:55,199 So we actually could save them 97% of their scope three 863 00:41:55,199 - > 00:41:57,599 emissions and save them a couple of million pounds in cold 864 00:41:57,599 - > 00:41:58,400 storage costs. 865 00:41:58,880 - > 00:42:02,000 So that's that's an example when you start thinking a bit more 866 00:42:02,000 - > 00:42:05,840 laterally about the sort of the things that can be done to 867 00:42:05,840 - > 00:42:08,639 improve business but also reduce scope three emissions. 868 00:42:09,039 - > 00:42:10,880 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah no that's very significant. 869 00:42:11,360 - > 00:42:14,880 Now on site is expanding into Ireland Germany and wider 870 00:42:14,880 - > 00:42:15,039 Europe. 871 00:42:15,360 - > 00:42:18,320 What are you seeing in those markets and what has to happen 872 00:42:18,320 - > 00:42:21,519 operationally and strategically to scale successfully beyond the 873 00:42:21,519 - > 00:42:21,760 UK? 874 00:42:21,840 - > 00:42:24,079 SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell I mean we see we see similar 875 00:42:24,079 - > 00:42:25,519 patterns in those markets. 876 00:42:26,000 - > 00:42:29,440 They're all they're all generally high energy cost 877 00:42:29,760 - > 00:42:30,719 markets. 878 00:42:31,440 - > 00:42:34,800 We look at the regulatory support for the sort of things 879 00:42:34,800 - > 00:42:38,239 that we're doing you know are we allowed to do PPAs legally is 880 00:42:38,239 - > 00:42:41,679 there support for energy efficiency or or renewables and 881 00:42:41,679 - > 00:42:44,960 and so on in those markets and all all of them support that. 882 00:42:45,039 - > 00:42:48,159 I mean Europe is a is a is a good platform for that they're 883 00:42:48,159 - > 00:42:50,320 very you know progressive from that perspective. 884 00:42:50,559 - > 00:42:53,440 But I mean you know the key to operating strategically is to 885 00:42:53,440 - > 00:42:56,159 have good people good people experienced and know the local 886 00:42:56,159 - > 00:42:56,639 markets. 887 00:42:56,800 - > 00:42:59,039 We've been fortunate enough to do that we've got a very 888 00:42:59,039 - > 00:43:02,239 experienced um a very well connected head of Ireland 889 00:43:02,239 - > 00:43:06,239 similarly we're starting off in June in Germany as well we've 890 00:43:06,239 - > 00:43:09,280 got some experienced guys we've taken on there we're looking at 891 00:43:09,280 - > 00:43:12,400 recruiting experienced operational people into the into 892 00:43:12,400 - > 00:43:16,000 the to support them and we look for I guess one thing that's 893 00:43:16,000 - > 00:43:17,840 different from the US is we obviously have different 894 00:43:17,840 - > 00:43:19,599 languages to cope with in Europe as well. 895 00:43:19,760 - > 00:43:22,800 So we're looking for for the language skills but it's it's an 896 00:43:22,800 - > 00:43:26,000 understanding of as I alluded to back you know on the Jable days 897 00:43:26,079 - > 00:43:28,000 you know it's about understanding culture in those 898 00:43:28,000 - > 00:43:30,159 countries that's that's a little different as well. 899 00:43:30,639 - > 00:43:33,440 So we always try to learn lessons we try to partner in 900 00:43:33,440 - > 00:43:34,559 those countries as well. 901 00:43:34,719 - > 00:43:37,599 So it's really about trying to find strong local partners we 902 00:43:37,599 - > 00:43:40,880 can work with maybe with people with established operations that 903 00:43:40,960 - > 00:43:43,760 um we could we're already aligned with maybe in our 904 00:43:43,760 - > 00:43:46,719 domestic market that we're we're we're we're trying to move in 905 00:43:46,719 - > 00:43:50,480 with and we've got customers in the UK who have operating 906 00:43:50,480 - > 00:43:53,920 facilities in Germany and in Ireland and so on as well. 907 00:43:54,159 - > 00:43:57,440 So we try to go through our existing customers and to win 908 00:43:57,440 - > 00:44:00,480 projects in their facilities in those Countries. 909 00:44:00,719 - > 00:44:04,079 The same crossing the chasm analogy emerges in those 910 00:44:04,079 - > 00:44:04,559 countries. 911 00:44:04,639 - > 00:44:07,440 You know, we're right back at the beginning of the curve in 912 00:44:07,599 - > 00:44:08,079 Germany. 913 00:44:08,159 - > 00:44:11,519 We have no operating sites, nobody's heard of us, we've got 914 00:44:11,519 - > 00:44:13,280 no thought leadership in Germany. 915 00:44:13,440 - > 00:44:16,559 So, you know, we have to go through the same cycle again of 916 00:44:16,719 - > 00:44:19,840 building credibility in Germany, showing them operating 917 00:44:19,840 - > 00:44:20,400 facilities. 918 00:44:20,559 - > 00:44:22,800 Of course, you know, in principle, you can bring them 919 00:44:22,800 - > 00:44:24,719 over to the UK and show them the sites. 920 00:44:24,880 - > 00:44:28,159 But I think generally most people don't believe it until 921 00:44:28,159 - > 00:44:30,480 they see it in their own backyard, in their own industry, 922 00:44:30,559 - > 00:44:31,679 in their own backyard. 923 00:44:31,920 - > 00:44:33,679 So we've got to go right through that cycle. 924 00:44:33,760 - > 00:44:35,599 We've got to be patient, we've got to build again. 925 00:44:35,679 - > 00:44:38,400 And I'm sure that yeah, I don't think the cycles will be as long 926 00:44:38,400 - > 00:44:40,880 as the first time around, but that's exactly what we've got to 927 00:44:40,880 - > 00:44:40,960 do. 928 00:44:41,039 - > 00:44:43,760 We've got to recognize we're the newbie on the block and nobody's 929 00:44:43,760 - > 00:44:46,079 heard of us, and we've got to build trust again. 930 00:44:46,480 - > 00:44:46,639 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 931 00:44:46,880 - > 00:44:49,840 But you have your playbook and you have the experience and the 932 00:44:49,840 - > 00:44:50,719 awareness. 933 00:44:50,960 - > 00:44:51,920 And so yeah. 934 00:44:52,639 - > 00:44:55,199 SPEAKER_02: We have customers who are recognized now as well. 935 00:44:55,280 - > 00:44:56,639 So it's much, much easier. 936 00:44:57,199 - > 00:44:57,840 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Very true. 937 00:44:58,000 - > 00:44:58,159 unknown: Yeah. 938 00:44:58,559 - > 00:45:00,639 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: So you're also watching and adopting 939 00:45:00,639 - > 00:45:03,840 emerging technologies, including high temperature heat pumps and 940 00:45:03,840 - > 00:45:04,559 other innovations. 941 00:45:04,800 - > 00:45:07,119 How do you balance being innovative with managing 942 00:45:07,119 - > 00:45:08,480 performance risk for customers? 943 00:45:08,559 - > 00:45:10,639 SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell It's something we did at the outset. 944 00:45:10,800 - > 00:45:13,840 I I'm quite passionate about trying to break new technology 945 00:45:13,840 - > 00:45:15,760 and give new technology a lift. 946 00:45:15,840 - > 00:45:19,280 And effectively, this is where many corporates, if they see a 947 00:45:19,280 - > 00:45:21,760 high temperature heat pump, they'd want to see it operating 948 00:45:21,760 - > 00:45:24,480 in the field for years before they take the risk of investing 949 00:45:24,480 - > 00:45:25,599 in it themselves. 950 00:45:25,840 - > 00:45:29,440 You know, I guess we're able, we we're we're fairly experienced 951 00:45:29,440 - > 00:45:33,199 people at systems integrating and spotting technology risk and 952 00:45:33,199 - > 00:45:34,239 so on and things. 953 00:45:34,480 - > 00:45:37,760 We also now have to do technical DD on a lot of these 954 00:45:37,760 - > 00:45:40,320 technologies as well, whether, you know, see whether they've 955 00:45:40,320 - > 00:45:43,039 been through, some sort of accelerated aging sort of 956 00:45:43,039 - > 00:45:45,039 testing and that type of thing there as well. 957 00:45:45,199 - > 00:45:48,320 But one of the things we've done for years now is we actually um 958 00:45:48,320 - > 00:45:52,320 engage external technical diligence, so uh external 959 00:45:52,320 - > 00:45:57,199 consultancy, the likes of people like uh DNV and so on to go in, 960 00:45:57,280 - > 00:46:00,480 we pay for them to go in, do a deep dive on the technology and 961 00:46:00,480 - > 00:46:03,199 the company as well, and and write a report for us. 962 00:46:03,280 - > 00:46:07,360 And so we also use DNV to extensively report on our 963 00:46:07,360 - > 00:46:07,840 projects. 964 00:46:07,920 - > 00:46:11,760 And so it gives our our funders a degree of confidence that 965 00:46:11,760 - > 00:46:14,639 we've got a third-party cooperation as well as our own 966 00:46:14,639 - > 00:46:18,719 view on the technology, and and actually DNV, um, we can also 967 00:46:18,800 - > 00:46:22,480 effectively uh our lenders can take reliance on DNV's report. 968 00:46:22,559 - > 00:46:25,199 So there's an element of a bit of a professional indemnity 969 00:46:25,199 - > 00:46:27,119 cover on the line from DNV as well. 970 00:46:27,280 - > 00:46:31,039 We we're always looking for innovations and technology 971 00:46:31,039 - > 00:46:34,639 breakthroughs and so on, but um whereas equally realistic, we've 972 00:46:34,639 - > 00:46:36,960 got to get warranties that are they're worth something. 973 00:46:37,119 - > 00:46:40,079 And um and uh um when you don't have that, you've got to get 974 00:46:40,079 - > 00:46:42,960 some additional comfort from, I say, the likes of working with a 975 00:46:43,119 - > 00:46:43,920 with a DNV. 976 00:46:44,320 - > 00:46:44,480 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Right. 977 00:46:44,559 - > 00:46:45,920 Yeah, mitigating that risk. 978 00:46:46,000 - > 00:46:47,679 I think that's essential as well. 979 00:46:47,760 - > 00:46:49,360 SPEAKER_02: Aaron Ross Powell, our business is all about 980 00:46:49,360 - > 00:46:52,239 mitigating risk, you know, whether that's financial risk or 981 00:46:52,320 - > 00:46:55,360 or commodity risk or or have you or performance risk. 982 00:46:55,519 - > 00:46:56,320 That's the business. 983 00:46:56,639 - > 00:46:56,960 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah. 984 00:46:57,280 - > 00:47:00,800 So David, finally, you hinted that your team is working on a 985 00:47:00,800 - > 00:47:03,199 potentially new form of renewable energy. 986 00:47:03,440 - > 00:47:07,039 Without giving away anything confidential, what excites you 987 00:47:07,039 - > 00:47:10,079 most about where energy solutions are headed over in the 988 00:47:10,079 - > 00:47:10,880 next three to five years? 989 00:47:11,280 - > 00:47:13,840 SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, I I mean I think I think there's there's a 990 00:47:13,840 - > 00:47:16,400 lot of you know boundaries being pushed now. 991 00:47:16,559 - > 00:47:19,920 Um energy technology is is probably changing faster than 992 00:47:19,920 - > 00:47:22,960 it's ever done in the you know 15 years or so. 993 00:47:23,039 - > 00:47:26,880 I've been tracking the sector now, seeing seeing tremendous 994 00:47:26,880 - > 00:47:27,119 things. 995 00:47:27,199 - > 00:47:31,679 But I I'm suddenly more thinking of integration, sort of 996 00:47:31,679 - > 00:47:33,280 end-to-end solutions. 997 00:47:33,519 - > 00:47:36,639 So um you know, a great example of that is something like carbon 998 00:47:36,639 - > 00:47:37,280 capture. 999 00:47:37,440 - > 00:47:40,239 You know, people talk about carbon capture as an end 1000 00:47:40,239 - > 00:47:41,119 solution, yeah. 1001 00:47:41,280 - > 00:47:43,679 But the reality is what do you do with the carbon once you've 1002 00:47:43,679 - > 00:47:44,320 captured it? 1003 00:47:44,480 - > 00:47:47,280 And I think I'm see I'm seeing lots of now technical 1004 00:47:47,280 - > 00:47:48,639 breakthroughs in that as well. 1005 00:47:48,800 - > 00:47:51,840 It's not about just storing it indefinitely and um which I 1006 00:47:51,840 - > 00:47:53,440 think is a really bad idea, by the way. 1007 00:47:53,519 - > 00:47:57,440 But it's um so I'm sort of seeing more integrated 1008 00:47:57,440 - > 00:48:00,400 solutions, end-to-end solutions, and and I think that's one of 1009 00:48:00,400 - > 00:48:03,119 the things that it we're in a fortune position to do because 1010 00:48:03,280 - > 00:48:06,320 really there's not many people integrate and and look at it 1011 00:48:06,320 - > 00:48:07,199 from one end to the other. 1012 00:48:07,440 - > 00:48:12,000 It's trying to find a completely new new way to to view to view 1013 00:48:12,000 - > 00:48:12,239 something. 1014 00:48:12,559 - > 00:48:13,920 We've got something like that at the moment. 1015 00:48:14,239 - > 00:48:17,519 We we see the opportunities to completely hit net zero in a 1016 00:48:17,519 - > 00:48:20,800 large manufacturing site now with a solution that had been 1017 00:48:20,800 - > 00:48:23,440 largely discounted, actually, which is bizarrely. 1018 00:48:23,679 - > 00:48:26,159 It's because it's like looking at a headline in a newspaper. 1019 00:48:26,320 - > 00:48:28,000 A lot of people look at the headline and think they 1020 00:48:28,000 - > 00:48:30,800 understand the article, but they they don't read the article. 1021 00:48:31,280 - > 00:48:34,719 And and and you know, and I think what's happening in energy 1022 00:48:34,880 - > 00:48:37,199 is you know, we're reading the article, but we're also reading 1023 00:48:37,199 - > 00:48:37,519 the book. 1024 00:48:37,920 - > 00:48:38,480 It goes in. 1025 00:48:38,639 - > 00:48:41,280 People at the the there's a bigger picture and systems 1026 00:48:41,280 - > 00:48:44,559 coming together, you know, so things like microgrids are gonna 1027 00:48:44,559 - > 00:48:45,440 become more common. 1028 00:48:45,599 - > 00:48:48,320 There's gonna be multiple solutions to to address 1029 00:48:48,320 - > 00:48:48,880 businesses. 1030 00:48:49,039 - > 00:48:52,719 You might find them actually taking something out they put in 1031 00:48:52,800 - > 00:48:55,440 because they realize it's actually constraining them to do 1032 00:48:55,440 - > 00:48:56,880 a better solution overall. 1033 00:48:57,039 - > 00:49:00,239 And I think that's that's where what's gonna happen in the next 1034 00:49:00,400 - > 00:49:03,280 probably five to ten years, but certainly the innovation is 1035 00:49:03,280 - > 00:49:05,280 gonna continue to happen in the next three to five. 1036 00:49:05,599 - > 00:49:07,360 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah, well, exciting times. 1037 00:49:07,519 - > 00:49:09,519 I guess we'll we'll see how things evolve. 1038 00:49:10,159 - > 00:49:10,559 SPEAKER_02: Brilliant. 1039 00:49:10,800 - > 00:49:12,400 Thank you for your uh questions, Leanne. 1040 00:49:12,800 - > 00:49:14,880 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: Yeah, David, thank you for joining me 1041 00:49:14,880 - > 00:49:16,079 and sharing your insights. 1042 00:49:16,320 - > 00:49:17,119 Great conversation. 1043 00:49:17,360 - > 00:49:20,320 How can listeners learn more about on-site energy? 1044 00:49:20,719 - > 00:49:22,480 SPEAKER_02: Uh come and have a look at the website. 1045 00:49:22,559 - > 00:49:28,639 You know, we're at um um www.on site site, that is, dot energy. 1046 00:49:28,960 - > 00:49:32,320 And um and hopefully you see some a lot of our case studies 1047 00:49:32,320 - > 00:49:34,400 and the things we get up to on there. 1048 00:49:34,480 - > 00:49:37,440 Um you know, if anybody wants a wants a conversation, then 1049 00:49:37,440 - > 00:49:38,400 please get in touch. 1050 00:49:38,559 - > 00:49:41,199 We're we're we're pretty easy people to talk to. 1051 00:49:41,599 - > 00:49:41,840 Dr. Leeanne Aguilar: All right. 1052 00:49:41,920 - > 00:49:43,199 Well, thank you, David. 1053 00:49:43,519 - > 00:49:46,639 And to everyone listening, thank you for tuning in to Industry 1054 00:49:46,639 - > 00:49:47,199 Ignited. 1055 00:49:47,360 - > 00:49:49,840 Be sure to subscribe and join us for the next episode. 1056 00:49:50,079 - > 00:49:53,920 Until next time, stay bold, stay curious, and keep igniting 1057 00:49:53,920 - > 00:49:54,480 industry.