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EP1039: Managing Cyber Risk and Third-Party Dependencies in Financial Services

IBS Intelligence Global FinTech Interviews · 2026-10-30 · 13 min

0:00--:--

Key moments - from our scoring

Substance score

34 / 100

Five dimensions, 20 points each

Insight Density8 / 20
Originality7 / 20
Guest Caliber8 / 20
Specificity & Evidence6 / 20
Conversational Craft5 / 20

Financial services organizations face mounting pressure to modernize while maintaining continuous operations - a tension that makes resilience a core strategic requirement rather than a secondary concern. Grant Duxbury from 1111 Systems outlines how resilience differs fundamentally from prevention: while prevention reduces the likelihood of incidents, resilience determines how quickly and confidently an organization can respond when disruptions occur. This distinction matters especially for cyber recovery, which differs materially from disaster recovery because adversaries can move dynamically after an incident, making traditional recovery assumptions unreliable. Regulatory bodies including the FCA are shifting expectations away from documentation toward evidence of testing and readiness. Organizations need clear visibility of critical business services, their dependencies across suppliers and systems, and demonstrated capability to maintain operations during disruption. Duxbury emphasizes that compliance provides only a backward-looking snapshot, while genuine confidence requires continuous testing - including stress tests run under realistic conditions (off-hours, reduced staff, missing key stakeholders) rather than controlled environments. For boards and executives, the starting point is understanding which five to ten services customers depend on most, when those services were last tested, and whether the organization could survive loss of its largest technology provider for 48 hours.

Key takeaways

  • →Resilience must be built into transformation projects from the design phase, not treated as a separate workstream, because uncertainty around service continuity, data recovery, and operating model changes creates unacceptable risk.
  • →Cyber recovery is materially different from disaster recovery due to dynamic trigger points and adversary movement, requiring organizations to combine prevention (reducing incident likelihood) with resilience (minimizing damage and enabling controlled response).
  • →Regulatory expectations have shifted from reviewing documentation to demanding evidence of testing and operational readiness, making untested plans - which are merely hypotheses - insufficient for compliance with DORA and FCA requirements.
  • →Organizations should prioritize testing critical business services under realistic stress conditions (missing staff, off-hours, unavailable stakeholders) rather than controlled environments, and every exercise should surface previously unknown gaps.
  • →Boards should ask whether the organization could maintain operations if its largest single technology or cloud provider became unavailable for 48 hours, and what proportion of transformation budgets are allocated to resilience and recoverability by design.

About IBS Intelligence Global FinTech Interviews

Hosted by IBS Intelligence Podcasts | A Cedar Consulting Unit. The show scores 63.4/100 on substance across its analysed episodes. See the full show profile.

Guests

Grant Duxbury

Topics in this episode

Legacy system modernizationFinancial inclusionCyber resilienceFinancial servicesDORA (Digital Operational Resilience Act)Cyber recovery versus disaster recoveryFinancial solutioncyber riskFCA operational resilience requirementsThird-party dependency managementCritical business services frameworksCloud provider resilience testingBusiness continuity and disaster recovery planningTransformation program risk managementFacilities and supplier dependency mapping

Questions this episode answers

What is the difference between cyber recovery and disaster recovery?

Cyber recovery involves dynamic trigger points and adversary movement after an incident, making recovery significantly more challenging than traditional disaster recovery where the incident parameters are typically known and static.

Why is testing resilience plans under realistic conditions more important than testing in controlled environments?

Controlled tests where all staff are available and conditions align don't reveal how the organization actually performs under pressure; testing with reduced staff, off-hours timing, and missing stakeholders surfaces real vulnerabilities in decision-making and execution.

What should financial institutions ask about third-party dependencies in their resilience strategy?

Organizations should test whether they could maintain operations if their largest single technology or cloud provider became unavailable for 48 hours, and understand the assumptions built into their third-party exposure assessments.

How do compliance and confidence differ in operational resilience?

Compliance provides a backward-looking snapshot of readiness at a point in time, while confidence is a forward-looking, continual posture that requires ongoing testing, learning, and adaptation to changes occurring after compliance is assessed.

What should boards prioritize when reviewing resilience strategy?

Start by identifying the five to ten most critical business services customers depend on, understand what each service depends on, determine when they were last tested and under what conditions, and assess whether resilience and recoverability are built into transformation budgets by design.

What our scoring noted

Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.

Insight Density

8 / 20

The episode contains a handful of genuinely useful framings - cyber recovery vs. disaster recovery, resilience-by-design vs. bolt-on, the 'untested plan is a hypothesis' heuristic - but these are surrounded by significant padding and generic best-practice recaps that dilute the per-minute value for a knowledgeable B2B operator.

cyber recovery is not disaster recovery. When you're looking at just uh disaster recovery, it it's quite different. Cyber recovery, the trigger point can be dynamic after the event, and the adversary can move.
an untested plan is really just a hypothesis, it's not a verified plan

Originality

7 / 20

The cyber-recovery-is-not-disaster-recovery distinction and the 'every test should yield a surprise' heuristic are modestly fresh, but the bulk of the content - people/process/technology mapping, don't-boil-the-ocean prioritisation, compliance vs. confidence - recycles frameworks that circulate widely in resilience and risk literature.

Cyber recovery, the trigger point can be dynamic after the event, and the adversary can move. That makes recovery significantly more challenging.
Compliance really provides a snapshot of looking backwards in terms of your your readiness. Confidence is more of a continual posture

Guest Caliber

8 / 20

The guest is identified only as a Risk and Resilience Specialist at '1111 systems,' suggesting a practitioner-level advisory role rather than a senior operator who has run resilience at a named financial institution at scale; the content reflects solid working knowledge but not distinctive authority.

Grand Duxbury Risk and Resilience Specialist 1111 systems
Organizations will gain confidence by ensuring they're testing their policies, understanding the dependencies of them, uh testing against gaps and understanding uh what's missing from uh your business resilience posture

Specificity & Evidence

6 / 20

Almost no concrete data, named companies, dollar figures, or case studies appear; the most specific moments are a hypothetical 48-hour outage scenario and regulatory name-drops (DORA, FCA), which are themselves generic references rather than evidence of real outcomes.

if we were to lose our single largest technology provider, cloud provider for a 48-hour period, you know, would we be able to continue operations?
Dora FCA operational resilience requirements and closer scrutiny of third parties are raising expectation

Conversational Craft

5 / 20

The host's questions are formulaic and leading, there is no visible follow-up or pushback, and one question is copy-pasted verbatim into the transcript twice, exposing the shallow Q&A structure and absence of genuine dialogue.

What is the difference between prevention and resilience, particularly when organizations are dealing with cyber threats?
Why has resilience become the condition for success transformation today?

Conversation analysis

Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.

Most-used words

resilience15services13critical10recovery9organizations8understanding8testing8plan7technology6ensure6transformation5service5cyber5understand5disruption5prevention5

Episode notes

Grant Duxbury, Risk and Resilience Specialist at 11:11 Systems As financial institutions accelerate modernisation, how can they strengthen cyber and business resilience while keeping critical services secure, available and compliant? Puja Sharma of IBS Intelligence speaks to Grant Duxbury, Risk and Resilience Specialist at 11:11 Systems, about why resilience must be embedded into digital transformation, how financial institutions can manage critical dependencies and third-party risks, improve operational readiness and ensure business continuity and recovery during disruption.

Full transcript

13 min

Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.

I think that's a good idea. Financial institutions are in the pressure to modernize and adopt new technology and move faster. But they also need to keep critical services running. Why has resilience become the condition for success transformation today?

Well, the first thing is transformation only creates value if the business can depend on the service that's being transformed. So whether or not you're transforming to a new platform, you're doing a cloud migration, or you're changing the operating model the business is using, uncertainty around data, recovery. You can't just move the risk from one business to another. That just leaves it stranded somewhere else.

So when we think about resilience, uh, we think about resilience from is it resilient by design? Um it shouldn't just be a condition of transformation. It shouldn't operate as a separate work stream. You really have to look at at two things.

Uh one, how do we change? And then secondly, how do we ensure continuous operations while we're going through that transformation? So, what pressures are creating the biggest resilience challenges for financial services organizations today? So there's a combination of pressures, uh, I would say.

So there's things, many things firms are managing today, like aging technology, there's uh increased uh complexity around hybrid environments, reliance on third parties has become more and more top of mind. And add that to more sophisticated cyber threats. Um and and during this, you know, customers obviously expect services to be running all the time. So, in addition to this, I'd say uh regulators uh want to ensure you understand what your critical business services are and can just uh can withstand a disruption.

So it's it's not just a matter of um identifying one area or weakness, but understanding kind of the threat landscape across your suppliers, processes, and people. Many financial institutions need to modernize legacy systems, but cannot simply switch them off. How can they manage progress without creating a new operation risk? I'd say the starting point there is to understand the legacy environment and what it's actually supporting before changing a platform.

So it goes back again to understanding and having a clear view of what the critical business services are, what depends on those critical business services and the data involved that connect that business service, the applications, the people and the suppliers together. From there, uh obviously you can modernize from a critical business service and the impact that that service has versus purely treating it as a technical migration. It's not just something that IT owns, it's something that the business is responsible for.

So that includes uh defining an acceptable amount of disruption, agreeing on what recovery looks like during that process. And the thing that we see that um quite often is not done enough is the testing of those assumptions and testing the resilience plan as well. What is the difference between prevention and resilience, particularly when organizations are dealing with cyber threats? Sure.

So prevention is is essential, it's important, it's the first line of defense, um, but it can't be the whole strategy. Organizations need to have stronger controls. What is the difference between prevention and resilience, particularly when organizations are dealing with cyber threats? Prevention is essential, um, but it's it's not the entire strategy.

Organizations need strong controls to reduce the likelihood of an incident, but also need to assume that at some point uh a critical service may become unavailable for some other reason. So resilience is really about what happens next. Um, and can the organization identify the problem? Can they contain it?

Can they continue to operate while an incident occurs in a controlled manner? That's why security, business continuity, uh governance, and communications all need to work together from an overall business resiliency perspective. I would say right now we're shifting from uh how do we stop this from happening more to how quickly and confidently can we actually respond uh when something does occur. It's important to know, I'd say, that uh cyber recovery is not disaster recovery.

When you're looking at just uh disaster recovery, it it's quite different. Cyber recovery, the trigger point can be dynamic after the event, and the adversary can move. That makes recovery significantly more challenging. Prevention lowers the odds of something occurring, but resiliency lowers the damage that occurs when something does go wrong, and and you need to consider both.

That's about the pull quote that we need. Dora FCA operational resilience requirements and closer scrutiny of third parties are raising expectation. What are regulators looking for now? I'd say broadly speaking, uh regulators really want to see the evidence now versus just seeing the documentation that underpins your program.

Like I've mentioned before, this kind of stems all uh back to clearly understanding and documenting what your critical business services are and even having a business services framework around that, understanding what the impact of a disruption would do, what are the dependencies that support those services, and then what are the actions you would take under a pressure situation or an incident. The other area we see quite a lot right now is the increased expectation around testing and understanding third-party exposure and the assumptions that you've built around that third-party exposure.

That's another kind of key area that we see. Really, organizations need to demonstrate operational readiness and not just describe how they're doing it and what the policies are. So basically, you know, don't just show me your plan, show me the evidence of you testing that plan. What is the difference between meeting a compliance requirement and having genuine confidence and resilience?

So compliance is is really important from a baseline perspective, but it's not the same as confidence. Organizations will gain confidence by ensuring they're testing their policies, understanding the dependencies of them, uh testing against gaps and understanding uh what's missing from uh your business resilience posture. Compliance really provides a snapshot of looking backwards in terms of your your readiness. Confidence is more of a continual posture that you need to continually kind of look forward and ensure that you one, that you're auditable, obviously.

Um, and two, that you're responding to change that occurs after that compliance has been set. So forward looking more than backward looking. Some areas that we see that are critical is or concerning, rather to say, is uh organizations that have plans but haven't tested them. Or if they have tested them, maybe they've only tested them in very controlled conditions.

So, you know, by that I mean everyone was available for a test. They um, you know, all the stars aligned, so to speak, as opposed to running tests where you've got less staff, it's off hours, um, someone's not available, you have a key stakeholder that's um, you know, responsible for for recovery. And then, you know, how you actually test the decision making on top of it. So, you know, I kind of sum that up by saying like an untested plan is really just a hypothesis, it's not a verified plan.

And something we always suggest with customers is every exercise should really produce some new uh findings, uh a surprise or something that you didn't know before, or you're really not testing uh hard enough or deep enough. What should boards and executive teams be asking their technology and risk leader about resilience today? The first question should be uh what services are most critical to our customers? Uh, our people and our ability to continue operations.

That that's first and foremost. And then secondly, what do those services depend on? And how confident are we that we could maintain operations or recover from a serious disruption? That's really kind of the two key questions that uh I would ask on a board.

Then from there, what's really important is to ensure you have evidence to support that confidence and it's not just a matter of documentation. So it goes back to, you know, when was the last time you tested? What did you learn? What were the outcomes?

And how did you improve your resiliency posture based on those tests? So, you know, some things I would kind of drill down from there is is to kind of understand the the five to 10 top services that customers are most reliant on and are most critical to the business. When was the last time you tested them and under what conditions? Another good question with the reliance on uh technology providers, cloud providers is is asking if we were to lose our single largest technology provider, cloud provider for a 48-hour period, you know, would we be able to continue operations?

That's a really good barometer of readiness. And then if you're going through a transformation, uh a really good area to understand is of the transformational budget, what proportion of that is assigned to resilience or recoverability? And is it resilient by design? Is it secure by design?

If those, if that's not built into the plan, it's gonna cost you a lot more after. And then I guess the last thing I'd always want to know is is uh, you know, who has the authority to invoke a recovery and and have you gone through those progressions of decision making through your testing procedures? If if financial institution is reviewing its resilience strategy this year, where should it start? Uh in my opinion, I'd start with a clear business-led um baseline and ensure that you've got a clearly defined roadmap and a clear strategy for that roadmap that has been communicated across the organization.

So obviously, you got to identify the services and what matters most, ensuring that people understand that strategy and roadmap, um, as well as the processes that underpin it and the suppliers that you depend on to deliver that. So, really assessing the organization's preparedness and ability to recover during a disruption. So, from there, um, you know, it's not, you know, boiling the ocean. You want to prioritize the gaps and address them in order of priority and not try to just fix everything at once.

So having kind of a practical remediation plan against that makes it easier for the organization to adapt. So one thing that uh we believe in strongly is mapping the people, process, and technology, um, as well as understanding the facilities in question and the suppliers that support those processes. And then the other thing is is obviously continually improve and and ensure you have a repeatable process for improvement. Grand Duxbury Risk and Resilience Specialist 1111 systems.

Related episodes across the Index

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