EP 104: Business Is Discipling You - But Into What?

Speaker A: Did you know your business can honor God while transforming lives around the world? Welcome to the IBOM Biblical Entrepreneurship show, the weekly podcast that inspires and equips Christian entrepreneurs to build sustainable businesses that glorify God and uplift impoverished communities. At ibom, our mission is built on the three fish metaphor. Give a fish. We provide startup loans to launch businesses. Teach to fish. We offer entrepreneur training for lasting growth. Equipped for disciples. We empower discipleship to multiply. Impact. Join iBum's founder, Steve Adams as he shares powerful solo episodes and expert interviews filled with mentorship insights and real life stories of how biblical entrepreneurship is advancing the Great Commission. Subscribe now and get ready to be inspired, equipped and empowered to make an eternal impact.

Speaker B: Hi, Steve Adams here from International Businesses Mission and welcome again to the Kingdom Impact Summit. I have Jim and Martha Brangenberg and I'm really excited to introduce you to them. Jim and Martha, uh, Brandenburg bring with, uh, they're with iworkforhim.com they're committed. They committed their lives to full time ministry as teenagers and later recognized that their workplace answered that call. As entrepreneurs and business owners, Jim and Martha learned their work was significant in the Kingdom of God and able to reach people who had never set foot in Church. Since 2013, Jim and Martha have co hosted the I Work for him talk show, challenging thousands across the globe with the simple message that your workplace is your mission field. They've added podcasts for I Retire for him and she Works for Him into their lineup. In addition to the podcasts and radio spots, speaking and mentoring, they have co authored and collaborated. They've co authored the collaborative books of I Work for him, she Works for him and I Retire for him and are leading a project to facilitate collaboration across the country. To learn more about Jim and Martha and I Work for him, just go to www.iworkforhim.com. that's a four, the number four. And we'll come back to that because I want to make sure everybody, uh, has that, uh, before we get done. Jim and Martha, welcome.

Speaker C: Thanks Steve.

Speaker D: Thank you so much.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you. So, um, talk about just, um, that journey that you had of um, realizing that work is your ministry. Because one of the big things we've been trying to do with this summit is help people understand there isn't this false dichotomy, this sacred secular divide. I see it all over the world. We work with students in every part of the world and it's everywhere. It's not just here in the US So maybe unpack your story a Little bit.

Speaker C: I can tell you why it's all over the US on, all over the world. Because we sent missionaries all over the world spreading this false theology. All right, so our story, as it said in our bio, we both committed our lives to full time ministry as 13 year olds at the same, uh, youth conference, uh, three years before we met. When we met, we realized that conjunction. And we also decided that after we got married we would finish our four year degrees and then we would enroll in seminary because that's what you do if you're going to be in full time ministry. We went to go enroll in seminary. Mary and the Lord sent the senior pastor of the church and said, jim, I don't think you could handle having 400 bosses. I think you should just be a lay minister. That's the way I heard it. He didn't say it with that, but to me that was like a swear word like, Jim, you're not good enough for ministry. Oh yeah, you could just be a lay minister. So we backed out. Just continue to do volunteer youth ministry, working really hard on our jobs, which was the insurance business, uh, working really hard, uh, so we could support what we volunteered to do. And we did volunteer youth ministry for almost 20 years. Uh, and then about five years later, another opportunity came up for us to go into full time ministry within a church structure. And this time the Lord sent the senior pastor and his wife and said, we don't think you could handle having 400 bosses.

Speaker D: Same message.

Speaker C: Same message, same message. Which they were right because I think they're right. Yeah, well, you know, we're entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs would have time having 400 bosses. So we just said, I guess we're just not called to do a ministry. The first time I had enrolled in seminary, I dropped out. The second time I didn't even bother. And so we just did as good as we could do running the insurance agency that we're running, taking good care of people, working really hard so we could give them money away. But we just didn't think there was any significance to our work. God moved us to Florida in our late 30s. Uh, Martha wasn't feeling great in Minnesota all the time. In fact, she was sick almost all the time. So we moved to Florida and that really forced us through a midlife crisis. I took a job that involved a 90 minute drive to work on that drive. It transformed my life. I learned how to pray. I also learned how to pray for people that I worked with. And I also had a buddy that I met in Tampa Bay who introduced me to a guy named Oz Hillman. And he sent me his daily devotional today, God is first, which you could still get today. And it told me that devotional told me for the very first time in my life that my work mattered to God. And I came home and I said, martha, our work matters. We don't need to quit our jobs and go into full time ministry. We are in ministry. And that's where this all came from, blossomed from. And we said, lord, we know that you're working something. We're not sure what you want us to do with it. Uh, in 2012, God gave us the name I work for him. And in 2013, 90 days later, he said, and here's what I want you to do with it. I want you to go on the radio in Tampa Bay and talk about the intersection of faith and work and encourage other people covering their stories of living out their faith and their work. And that's 12 and a half years ago. Thousands and thousands of interviews later, literally, I think we just recorded, uh, 2120 for I Work for Him 2020 shows. And we've done hundreds of I retire for him and about 100 she works for Him. And we've helped many other ministries produce podcasts as well. As well as we've got about 700, uh, power one minute power thoughts that we record and release across the country on a daily basis. But that whole journey was, we were told that actually we were mentored by, uh, by a couple of couples when we were newlyweds saying business is business and work is work. They have nothing to do with each other. So make a lot of money in business and give it to the church and maybe you'll serve in a building committee one day. Yeah.

Speaker B: Martha, would you like to add anything to that?

Speaker D: Well, you know, this, the, the things, a couple of things, uh, is the fact that we knew that we were really good at business like that we had this entrepreneurial spirit. We wanted to grow things and create, take messes and clean them up and all that. But we, it took us a long time, it took us till we were 40 to understand that God didn't make hm a mistake in making us entrepreneurial. Like we felt less than when instead we should have felt empowered. So the sad thing is, is if our pastor would have just said, no, Jim, I don't think you're meant to be a pastor, but you are a pastor in your work, that you have a ministry already. We had thousands of clients and we, you know, which is bigger than most churches and, and so like Jim said, we served them well, we worked with integrity, we made sure they were a priority for us, did excellent work. But we didn't see that as the ministry God had called us to. So that's kind of become our life goal, is to help other people not have to wait till they're 40 to figure that out. And you, uh, know, take it from there. Because God didn't make a mistake. He created us very uniquely for the calling he has on our lives.

Speaker C: I like to say, Steve, just imagine if every believer on the planet understood that their work mattered to God, that their job, no matter what it is, is just as significant in the kingdom as that of the pulpit pastor on Sunday, and that their workplace is a mission field because they work with lost and hopeless people, and it's their assigned ministry place. And that's where they're called to go. Not go, ye, therefore, but as you go is what really it says in the Great Commission. As you go.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Imagine there's a couple of billion people on this planet, 25% claiming to be born again believers. If every one of them was activated, um, we wouldn't have any problems on this planet.

Speaker B: And you know, that Great Commission, it's, it's, uh, you know, I went through a year of Greek, uh, when I was an, uh, elder at my church, because we, at our church we had all had to preach. So they forced us to go through Greek training, not, not to be an expert or anything, but that, that passage is commonly improperly translated and the emphasis on go instead of on making disciples. And, um, one of the questions I ask people all the time in these interviews, and I'm going to ask you guys is how does business discip you? And I'll tell you to give you a minute to think about that. I, um, was, I was meeting with a businessman in Seattle. Uh, it was a donor meeting. And he hit me with that about eight years ago. And I've never forgot that he's like business disciples me every day. Um, and he was just talking about the challenges of business and how it brings out things in him. And he sees it and he needs the Lord to help him overcome that. So maybe comment on that concept.

Speaker D: Well, you know, the first thing it made me think of is much like what used to be the reason we went to college was to form us into good working, you know, employees or entrepreneurs. It wasn't the fact that we necessarily had to learn all of these things, but the disciplines that we learned, right. Preparing made us into the people that we were the Group projects we had to work on. You know, the, the timelines, the deadlines, the you having to push yourself to get something accomplished. Uh, all of that helped us to see what our limits were and how much we could accomplish. People don't think of it that way very often. They think about, oh, I had to learn marketing 101. Well, no, you had to, you know. Yes, you did. But it was so much more than that. So I think if you relate it that way and you say these experiences do disciple us because they teach us the things that come out of us. You know, when you're under pressure, how do you respond? Are you pretty or are you ugly?

Speaker B: You know, heart comes out, right?

Speaker D: Yes. When you have somebody push back against you, do you, um, rebel against that, or do you receive it and say, okay, this is something I need to learn from? So I love the idea that business disciples you, because it really does. When you are under pressure, does Jesus come out or does your flesh come out? And our flesh is not very pretty. And Jesus gives us a way better example, uh, to live by. And, you know, I always tell people, um, you know, you think of America's Funniest Home Videos when somebody dumps the bucket on somebody's head, and how they respond. Do they laugh or do they lash out and freak out? And that's really the way I perceive my life. And how, how do I respond in that unexpected moment is really, really the truth about my character.

Speaker C: Jim, I've been reading John Mark Comer's book, Practicing the Way, and in there he says, love it. In there he says, something's shaping you. What is it? And, you know, there are a lot of business people out there who know Jesus, who. Business isn't discipling them, right. Business. Wall Street's discipling them not. It has nothing to do with Jesus because they don't realize that God expects us to do business differently. Uh, that capitalism in its purest form really can be great. But in the Wall street form, it really is just all about money. And Jesus summarized the Old Testament in two sentences. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. When you're in business, that should be your goal. It should be a blessing to you and your family. It should be a blessing to your employees. It should be a blessing and their families. A blessing to the vendors, a blessing to the customers, and ultimately a blessing to the community that you operate within. And if, uh, that kind of discipleship, when you start to serve that disciples You. But just making money and buying stuff and, you know, treating people like numbers or cattle, that doesn't disciple you. It destroys you.

Speaker B: It does another. You know, something you were talking about earlier too. You know, we have a lot of people, believers carry this instrumental value of work mindset. And I get this language from Jordan Rayner, who I'm sure you've probably heard of. He writes a lot about this. Uh, and the idea is it's an instrument, meaning I go to work, I make money, I give to the church, I give to missionaries. Now that there's nothing wrong with that, but that's like the primary way so many people look at their work. And when you look in Genesis 1:26, 28, that little passage talks about how we're to partner with God, taking the world somewhere and create culture and society and promote human flourishing and, um, improve people's lives somehow through what you do in business. And everybody. I mean, as long as it's in a. In a valid profession, not like sex worker or something, but everybody's job can be that. And that's, that's the intrinsic value of work and how God ordained that and that predated the Fall. Okay. And so, um, when people think about their work as intrinsically valuable to God and that they're partnering with him and taking the world somewhere, that can change how they view their work. And I actually argue that people that have that view of work actually have a greater Great Commission focus because they have a solid theological understanding of their first commission.

Speaker C: It's that cultural mandate that's laid down there, if you want to put a theological word on it. But, ah, most people think, and I was one of those people, that they think that work was a result of sin. Right. Or therefore tgif not TGIM M. But when we realize that God gives work as a blessing, when we realize that God gives work for flourishing of our soul, that changes your total perspective that we should be leaving Sunday service and celebrating tomorrow's Monday. I get to get on mission tomorrow. Not that you weren't when you went home in your neighborhood. You're on mission there too. Plus your number one ministries to your spouse and number two to your children, if you've got them, and then everything else.

Speaker D: But.

Speaker C: But that understanding. And when you look at it, Steve, honestly, we've taken that cultural mandate. We've done a pretty good job. Because he said, cultivate the earth, whatever that means. You know, I'm not. Again, I don't. I'm real rough on Hebrew and Aramaic.

Speaker B: Yeah. Me Too.

Speaker C: I don't actually know any of those words, but when you look at everything in this, everything my iPhone came from under the earth, everything, uh, on our desks that we're using for tools right now to have this conversation came from under the earth, everything. So it's just super important that we recognize we've done a pretty good job. And there's a lot of flourishing going on around the world. There's still a lot of messed up people. But right now our focus is on believers, getting them activated, helping them understand that God loves your work.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker B: Well, when we're overseas, it's so fun to watch. Um, we work primarily with Muslim background believers around the world. Now we're in Africa and we've got a strong ministry there as well. Uh, but they come, um, a lot of them have come out of communist, like ex Soviet type environments. And when they realize that, uh, because we teach that their business is a calling, that it's intentional, uh, that it's supposed to be excellent because all of those things, like the gospel message can flow out of excellence in business. Okay. And, and I'll give you an example. I was back to my store in Florida and um, we have a new second in command, like a sous chef they call it, and her name is Nina. And um, she, uh, I found out that she was, uh, had become a new believer. And we started talking and I kept hearing all of this works, works, works, works, works stuff. And she's Filipino. And I asked her, did you grow up Catholic? And not that this isn't a thing against Catholicism, but she did. And I was able to have this big theological conversation around grace. And, and she just started to tear up and realize like she was enough. And all that was, was, um, a simple opportunity and a visit to my store. And that's, that's what we're, that's what you're talking about. It doesn't have to be like this four point plan of evangelism every day.

Speaker D: Well, you know, and when you said the word instrument and how people kind of use that in a negative way, like this is my tool in order to make money to give to my church or to support missionaries. But if you flip it around, when we got married, you know, we said the prayer of St Francis and it was, lord, make me an instrument of your peace. And if you take that concept and you say, allow my job to be an instrument for the gospel, every person that calls you on your phone, every person that sends you an email, you are an instrument that God can use for that opportunity. And so instead of it being, um, you know, an obligation, it's an opportunity. And I. And again, it's just that switch at looking at that very a little bit differently. And somebody once said, you may not think that you earn as much as you should in your position, but you are a fully funded missionary in your work. You're being paid for what you do in your work and you, uh, get to be that missionary while you're on task.

Speaker B: Wow, Love that. Um, so you've been married 38 years, right?

Speaker C: It's actually 39 now. We got to update that bio.

Speaker B: We do, yeah. Well, my wife and I are one year behind you, so we're the same ilk. Um, so being in business all those years running an agency, um, uh, that's a challenge. Uh, staying married in this culture. How many kids do you guys have? Do you have kids or three kids?

Speaker C: Three kids. Going on nine grandkids.

Speaker B: Wow. How old are the. Your, your kids?

Speaker D: Well, so that's a fun, a fun story. Uh, we adopted a 16 year old when we were only 10 years older than her. So we have a wide variety of kids, but they're all grown and married and children. Yeah, yes, yes. Grown up in the businesses.

Speaker B: That's me. And so, so that, I guess my question is how, how was, uh, you know, your walk with the Lord, your apprenticeship, to use John Mark Comer's words, um, instrumental in a positive sense and, you know, building that family. And here you are now 38 years. You probably knew each other for a year or two before, so literally 40 years you've been together. Um, talk about that a little bit because that is a remarkable ministry right there.

Speaker C: So we're both, we love to work. We both love to work and we have, and we love to do ministry together. We pretty much spend as many waking hours of the day together as we can. We always have. There's a 10 year period of our life where we work separate jobs and we just did a lot of ministry stuff at night together.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, one of the things we always got right was making our. Martha's parents were phenomenal example for us. Just making sure that our marriage was always a priority. We still worked a lot. Um, we did. We also didn't let our kids be involved in every stinking activity so we could actually have a family life. We also made dinner around the dinner table together as a family a daily priority when we. As often as we could. Even when I was driving 90 miles each way to work every day. But two days a week, we had dinner on the dinner table. But we, we just have learned to very quick to say, uh, well, okay for me. I'm sorry, I love you, please forgive me. Because you know, sometimes things get a little exciting when you're working together. And uh, but God has allowed us, we spend time on. Martha, you tell him you're lying.

Speaker D: What? I don't know where you were going.

Speaker C: You're going to marry somebody.

Speaker D: Oh, so you know, a lot of people would say oh my word, I can't believe you spend so much time together that you work together. I could never work with my husband and my perspective and this is a God given perspective, I know that to be true was why would I ever marry somebody that I couldn't stand to spend time with? You know, God created us very uniquely, um, to complement each other, to work together, to want to be together. Now Jim is more quality time than I am. So sometimes I just need to go run errands and be by myself. And he's learned that you know, it's made.

Speaker B: So time is his loveliness language.

Speaker D: I'm is his love language. And sometimes I do need a break. You know, I, I love people saying

Speaker C: some um, a little bit much.

Speaker D: Sometimes I, I just need a little, you know, calm.

Speaker B: I am you, Martha, in our marriage. I need. So that's why I like when I fly somewhere, I get my alone time.

Speaker D: There you go, There you go.

Speaker C: That's the most incredible ministry time that I get on. You got a Catholic audience that are trapped by the window. But we, we love working together and it is what we have seen, which is, you know, one of the things I'd said to you, what we have seen is that a lot of people who run businesses or in full time church based or organization based ministry, those people are really good at wrecking their marriages. And we've done marriage mentoring now for 25 years. Um, our oldest kids have been married 28 years already and our, and our sons were married to 12 years this year. Uh, and our youngest has been married six years. What we have learned is that there's certain things that you got to do. And I, I have no problem calling people out because so many people go like if I gave my kids everything, like you gave them, you gave them stuff they wanted you. They'd rather lived in a metal shack and gotten you than live in a 15000 square foot house and have a boat and a cabin and never see you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And I see that people do it in the name of God, in the name of ministry. I'M gonna destroy my family. I'm gonna work all the time and I'm never gonna be home. And they just have to understand the sacrifice I'm making. That is baloney. False theology. Billy Graham was the worst, was the best example of. The worst example of being in ministry. And Ruth Graham said it. They, they. She had to hold the family together because he was gone all the time.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: That's why his kids were struggling until their 60s.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: You gotta, you gotta work at this. God did not call us to work so hard and do ministry so hard that we neglected the very unit that he created, the marriage.

Speaker B: That's almost another false dichotomy of saying you have to compromise your family to be in ministry. That's. That's a lie as well. Yeah. Our kids are the same example. You know, we, we really prioritize travel, so we did all of the major league baseball parks over 11 years with my son. He was a baseball pitcher and he loved baseball. But our daughter liked it because we would tour the cities as well. And when. So each kid, when they went away to college, the night, you know, right before they went, we took them to dinner and asked them what did they remember most? And they said it was all the experiences in the time. They literally didn't remember anything. We gave them nothing. And so I just, I believe in that so much. So, um, taking it back to this summit, um, really, you know, we've gotten people of, uh, different races, um, different countries and different age ranges, and we're all driving at this idea of how do I walk out my faith in the marketplace? Um, you guys are unique in that you are a couple. You've been married a long time. I know you're sinners, but you've done a lot of things right. And what would you say to young entrepreneur couple. That was you in 1990. What would you say to them today to give them that, that extra encouragement, um, as they leave the summit and watch your video and others. Do you have, do you have anything come to mind?

Speaker D: Wow. That is such a great question. And, you know, I think the first thing that God gave us as a gift, um, before we even had the wisdom to know that it was the right thing to do. From the very first night that we dated each other, we prayed together.

Speaker B: Wow. Huge.

Speaker D: And we have only missed a handful of nights, mostly when I. You were in the Dominican gym. I was in the Dominican. Like, we couldn't have cell service. Right. There was no way to communicate with each other. Um, we have, ah, relentlessly held on to that, um, opportunity. It's not a. It's not a requirement. It's not a, you know, but it is what we tell people couples. The secret sauce it praying together. Not over a meal, not over, um, you know, just that obligation. But pausing and bringing our things before the Lord together has been and is. And I challenge everyone listening. If you've never done it before and you've been married 50 years or 50 days, now is the time to start and, um, hold each other accountable. To that, be gracious and just say, I would really like us to pray together. This would mean a lot to me. Not guilting anybody into it. But there is something about going to the throne together that is undeniably, um, bonding. You know, we've said, we've told many people it's really hard to be mad at each other.

Speaker B: Yeah. Right.

Speaker D: And you're praying.

Speaker B: Yeah. Ends the argument, doesn't it?

Speaker D: Really puts things back into perspective and into that. That Right. Um, priority. And um, so we actually now working together, when we're dealing with challenges, we often stop in the middle of what we're doing. We just need to pray about this.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: You know, Jim's all tense. There's something really giving him angst was all tense.

Speaker C: Really giving her eggs.

Speaker D: Giving an example.

Speaker C: I'll give it an example. Throw Jim under the school bus.

Speaker D: You know, we've gotten to the point where we perfect.

Speaker B: You guys are showing how you do it.

Speaker D: This is the real thing, you know, well, one of us will put our hand out and the other one knows, okay, this is. We're just gonna pray.

Speaker C: And we learned. We learned to start a days in prayer. We used to just end our days in prayer. Now we had another couple influence us and. And start our days in prayer.

Speaker B: That's a new one for me. I want to do that. I like that.

Speaker C: And that has been really powerful. But you. You said something and it's on our. We created a list of things how to protect your marriage from your business and your ministry. And on that list, this thing's on there. But when you going back, choose your friends wisely.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Because you. You need to have friends that want the same things in life that you do. And you need to make sure that they're not people that are way too far ahead of you. And so you're trying to keep up with them, but they're way for, you know, they're just older. They're more advanced in what they're doing. We chose. We didn't choose wisely. We tried to keep up with the. We had tried to keep up with the Joneses, and it. You got us into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. And it was, it was that understanding. All of a sudden, when we went through Crown Financial Ministries, that God wanted more than just our tithe with our money. That started to shift where we are today. But it was something that we really needed to do. But it was because of choosing your friends. Find other couple friends that want the same things out of life and Jesus as you do.

Speaker D: And referring to core values, not the same things. Meaning the fasting car.

Speaker B: Yeah. Right.

Speaker D: You know, I mean, it's really being, um, like a fast car, being, uh, looking at the character of who we want to be when we look down the road and say, I want to surround myself with other people that are looking for that. Because I will tell you, as a young couple, and I think everybody we've ever talked to has this experience. Those couples that you build, forge friendships with, uh, you're raising, starting a family and growing a family tend to be relationships that last a lifetime. You may not live by each other anymore, you may not see each other, but maybe every 10 years or, you know, um, hey, I'm coming through town on vacation and we want to hook up. And you feel like you've never had a gap of time. So what do you, what do you want those people to be in your life and. And really search for that and find it. That is a. That is a critical part of, um, starting a young marriage and a young relationship and your family.

Speaker C: You're not gonna room for a lot of couples, but you should find one. I want to just go backwards on you for a second, Steve.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Talking about praying together, every godly woman thinks it is super sexy for her husband to pray with her. And that's. I mean, it is, um, unbelievable. And the guys that don't get that. I'm just giving you a clue right now. You wanna, you wanna enhance your marital life? Start praying with your wife.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: It will transform things.

Speaker B: You know, when I was a Sunday school teacher for 10 years with young marrieds, that was our niche for a long time until we kind of aged out. And, um, that was one of the number one issues for young women was their husbands just wouldn't lead at all spiritually. So, yeah, that's. That's oxygen for the marriage, is when, uh, in a Christian couple, when the guy will lead spiritually. And prayer is a big part of that. All right, I don't want to go any further. We're going to End on this talk about your ministry. I want you to lay it out for everybody. I mean, I did the bio. That's great. But I'd really like you guys to share from your heart what you're trying to accomplish and how people can find you.

Speaker D: Awesome. I will start. Um, almost every. No, I would say everything that we do under the umbrella of I work for him comes out of the fact that God created both of us with a very huge sense of responsibility. We learn something and we want to share it with other people. God told us not to hang on to things, to hold them very loosely, to think bigger than we could ever think. And so everything that we do up to this point has been free, has been collaborative, has been lifting up the story of what God is doing in people's lives. And so the outcome of that has been the podcast I work for Him. The podcast I retire for him, for the retirees. She works for the him, for the Christian working woman. And then we have awakened, uh, Podcast Network, which is a collection of podcasts that all are speaking in this space. Back when we started, we were one of only two talk shows talking about faith and work. And now there's hundreds. And so God said, get them together. Apple's not doing it. We need a play, a resource where people can go and find that. And then lastly, um, God has us working on the Tapestry project. Jim, you can maybe touch on that.

Speaker C: Well, thank you.

Speaker D: Which is all about collaboration.

Speaker C: Can I go now?

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Okay. So the Tapestry project, one of the things the Lord told us 24 was to gather the names of everybody we've run into in the country that's discipling workplace believers. We round ended up with 760 organizations across the country. And we know there's. We know there's more, but we ran out of money to be able to do any research. Um, we've just been sharing that with people because there's a lot of organizations out there, like the US Christian Chamber, that could take advantage of that, like the National Faith and Work association that could take care of that. There's, uh, a global Faith and Work alliance that's forming. One of the things that we do as a ministry is we're collaborators. And our goal is no matter where somebody's at or what they represent, if they're living out their faith in their work, we want to cover that story and share it, because we're all inspired by other people's faith stories. Often we get brought into conferences to MC because we know so many people that are sharing, uh, because we love to share those stories. And plus, we like to have a lot of fun. This is how we act on the stage. Most people get mcs, like, blah, blah, blah. There's like, Charlie Brown's teacher. Yeah.

Speaker B: Our.

Speaker C: Our ministry.

Speaker B: Our age. To know that, you know.

Speaker C: That's right. Well, no, everybody watches the reruns. There are Our ministry. I work the number4him.com is a Ministry focused on unleashing vibrantly effective workplace believers. Uh, on the workplace.

Speaker B: Yep. That makes sense. And, uh, so is it. I work for him dot com.

Speaker C: Yep. I work the number four him dot com.

Speaker B: Yep. Got it.

Speaker C: And then I retired from thing. I'm just gonna throw that. Forgot. Sorry. Retire for him came out when. When we went on the air, Martha's dad, who was a phenomenally great Christian man, said, jim, I get the whole I work for him thing. I did that. It was like. But I don't. I don't. I work for him anymore. I retire for him. Like, that's good.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so we launched that brand in 2017 and started, uh, podcast in 2020. Uh, and wrote a book with Martha's dad before he went to be with the Lord and just his story of living out his faith at work. And I work for him and his faith in retirement. And I retire for him. But it's. It just. What we realize is that there's tons of people, 55 to 95, who've been told that the American dream of retirement is biblical, that they could just go on vacation for 30 years. And that's theology.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And all of the. And because I was gonna argue with you, the second one, you said we aged out of, um, discipling young marriage.

Speaker B: Uh, who didn't?

Speaker A: You.

Speaker D: You're.

Speaker C: You're more equipped today to mentor young marriage than you ever have.

Speaker B: I know. It was more of. It was. It was a joke slay.

Speaker C: Okay. A joke. But are you doing it?

Speaker B: I lost my curb appeal. We're not like,

Speaker C: that's it. In today's world. Our curb appeal is. We have huge curb appeal because the younger generations desperately want to have chronologically superior people in their lives. And there's such an opportunity for ministry to be done. And that's what we wrote about. And I retire frame. That's what we talk about all the time. And I retire frame.

Speaker B: Well, and that's also. You're probably helping people transition to purpose from, um, whatever that, you know, because people get their identity wrapped up in their work and all of that, and you can help them transition into something more Purposeful in your identity in Christ, maybe. I don't know.

Speaker C: Everybody knows what they're retiring from. Almost nobody knows what they're retiring to.

Speaker B: Yep, I do. I know what I'm retiring to. It's called iBam. So.

Speaker D: Awesome.

Speaker B: Because I have three companies that I'm, you know, over time I'm gonna, you know. Um. Well, we'll talk about that another time. Uh, uh, thank you for being on the summit. I am grateful. You, uh, guys are a great model of a marriage. I know you're sinners and you aren't perfect, but it, it's. These are things people need to see and hear from and I'm just really grateful that you, uh, you know, engage with us in this summit.

Speaker C: We're grateful to be here. No, we did a special attachment just for the summit that's off on our website that I know you're going to include in the notes. But 10 ways to protect your marriage and your business marriage from your business and your ministry.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: And so that's going to be a link that we're gonna. That you guys have to be able to attach this video and it's actually got some extra, uh, some ideas beyond 10 because it came up with more than 10. But there's some bonus home suggestions as well.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: But if you could follow those 10 things, your marriage will be way better. And you won't lose your marriage because of your business or your ministry.

Speaker B: Well, I'm gonna go watch them. Just uh, you know what, for us, we can always make it better.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker B: And, and it matters because it's a legacy to your grandchildren too. And your kids. Mhm. Thanks guys.

Speaker C: But thank you.

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