EP 101: When Business Becomes Discipleship, Part 2

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Brad Formsma: I love that. You know, I was just on yesterday with a lady named Buki from London. Um, delightful Nigerian woman believer, uh, for this summit and um, we were talking about Jeremiah 17. You know, this is what the Lord says, the man who uh, trusts in man, and here's all the bad things. But, but bless is the one who trusts in the Lord. And I think that God, for me personally, what, why that is so meaningful is that. And also Psalm 16, I love, I've memorized that as like my life psalm, um, because uh, you know, it's similar. In 08 we had a, we had a $60 million project all funded, ready to go. Walmart anchored. And um, Walmart pulled out last minute and um, we got stuck with 3 1/2 million dollars on 11 bank lines of credit, pre development costs. And um, that uh, forced a crisis, uh, for the. Me and my two partners in a way that I can't even describe for people very well. And uh, but we, we just went to everybody and said if you don't force us into bankruptcy, we'll work. And we did. It took us 10 years, but we paid it all back over 10 years and at the same time went from two stores to 50 and, and had to create a firewall and raise capital on one side and not convince them that we weren't going to go over here with it. You know, um, wow. It was hard but you know, it was. But God shaped and formed all of us through that.

Guest: Yeah.

Brad Formsma: And so I can identify.

Guest: Yeah.

Brad Formsma: With what you're saying. So what, uh, so after all of that, um, um, you got into Keller Williams it sounds like, and you've got this radio program. Talk about what you're doing today.

Guest: Yeah. So probably about 10 years ago, my wife and I, we were, we were becoming official empty nesters at that point. Our, our Oldest kids were getting married. Our, uh, youngest kids were off at college. And I was kind of looking to transition, not into full time ministry, but I wanted to be able to fund the ministry that I felt like God had called me to. You start looking at businesses. What are businesses out there that would allow you the freedom to, you know, go meet with men, to go counsel families and also to go see, you know, future grandkids or wherever they might be. And real, uh, estate was something I always had an interest in, but wasn't sure I wanted to be, you know, quote, an agent. And so my wife, uh, uh, I was going to say she raised five kids, we raised five kids. She homeschooled them and uh, and now she's, she's at home.

Brad Formsma: What a woman, man.

Guest: Wow. So we, we decided to go after this together.

Brad Formsma: Okay.

Guest: And initially I think we were thinking more from an investment standpoint.

Brad Formsma: Yeah.

Guest: But as we realized, you know what, we're both good with people. Yep. And so we, we kind of decided, why don't we just join a brokerage and Keller Williams. We, we knew some folks at Keller Williams. We met with them and thought, this is great, let's plus learn the business

Brad Formsma: from the ground up, you know what I mean? Yeah. Learn all the transactional stuff and legal stuff. Right? Yeah, that makes sense.

Guest: Yeah. So that's, you know, again, sometimes you jump out there and do things. You don't know what the next couple of years is going to look like. And uh, fortunately it's, it's been good for us. And uh, so it allowed me to do the things. In fact, both my wife and I both have been trained in biblical counseling. So we do a fair amount, we do a fair amount of marriage counseling and just discipleship in general. Um, um, yeah, I do do a radio broadcast every afternoon from 3 to 4 o' clock here on the east coast. Uh, we're on about 10, 10 to 12 stations around the country. It's called SWAT radio.

Brad Formsma: Okay.

Guest: SWAT stands for spiritual Warriors Advancing Truth. Wow. Uh, good friend of mine, missionary, in fact a, uh, Marine who became an FBI agent who eventually became a missionary 30 years ago. He and I have known each other since I moved to Jacksonville in late 97. And we, we've stayed in touch all these years even though he's kind of bounced around. Uh, he came back to Jacksonville about 12 years ago and uh, started a Bible study out at the beach. And that was just a men's study with a couple sons and some, some other guys and you know, six, eight guys became 10 to 12, then 15 to 18, then 20, 25 guys. Anyway, then we started another study in town, then another one. Anyway, we had about four or five, uh, men's studies with a couple of hundred men who gathered at various locations. About 18 churches represented among those men. And then that ended up becoming a radio program that we did.

Brad Formsma: Okay.

Guest: And basically whatever we teach during the week, then we bring that to the radio the next week and just go deeper into it.

Brad Formsma: And are these, like, Christian radio stations in a town kind of deal? Yeah. Right?

Guest: Yeah.

Brad Formsma: Oh, that's a great platform.

Guest: Yeah. Yeah. Big part of Salem radio. Yep. But, uh. But Doug, who is, uh, the guy, the really. The. The missionary and the founder of swat, came to me when he was thinking about doing radio and said, hey, would you be willing to, uh, do this with me? Uh, just. I need somebody who knows the scriptures and can. We can teach it together, and then we can talk about application.

Brad Formsma: Yeah.

Guest: And I said, well, I love the idea, but I don't think I'm your guy. I can point you to a dozen other guys be better at that than me. Anyway. So, uh, you ended up doing it. Yeah. So I said, I tell you what, I'll help you get it started. You know, maybe I can. Can help, uh, raise the money to do it. And, uh. And I said, I tell you what, if you can get the money raised in the next two months, he wanted to do six months of airtime and raise the money for it. He said, if you. If you can do that, I will help you for a couple of weeks. Well, two weeks turned into eight years now. And, uh, yeah, it's kind of a

Brad Formsma: pattern I'm seeing here. Uh, the reluctant hero.

Guest: Yeah. Somebody told me yesterday, Brad, no is a complete sentence.

Brad Formsma: That's a hard word for all of us, especially if you're. I'm kind of a recovering people pleaser as well. And, you know, and it's. It's like, you know, there's a lot of good to that, and it's a challenge to break it. And it's. How do you do it? And be gracious, you know? Um, but it is. It's having firm boundaries and saying no. And I think what for me, where I finally won that battle was I just got tired of the position it put me in, and that helped me overcome my unwillingness to say it. Yeah.

Guest: Yeah, yeah.

Brad Formsma: Wow.

Guest: So what.

Brad Formsma: What today? Um. Um, you also started the Northeast Florida Christian Chamber of Commerce. So tell me about that a little bit. And then I want to weave in a couple of themes Here before we're.

Guest: Well, uh, I founded the Northeast Florida Christian Chamber with a good friend of mine, uh, by the name of Jeff Dalrymple. Jeff had moved to Jacksonville about six, seven years ago. We got connected about three years ago at a luncheon that some friends of ours coordinated. And, uh, he and I. It's just four guys around a table, but Jeff was sitting next to me. I had never met Jeff. And he and I started a conversation. We both had a mutual, uh, passion for making disciples. And, uh. And, you know, kind of like our conversation here. How does that take place, you know, when you think about Jesus's, uh, last commands before ascending to the Father?

Brad Formsma: Hm.

Guest: He said, he says to his disciples, he says, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore, now and make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I've commanded. Yep. And then, of course, he gives a great promise there at the end. He says, lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Yeah. And so, you know, when you think about. That's. That's Jesus's last commands before he ascends to the Father. I would take that pretty seriously.

Brad Formsma: Yeah. Right. Like, this is what I really want to emphasize.

Guest: Yeah. And that idea of go make disciples, it's the. It's really the phrase, as you're going to.

Brad Formsma: As you're going that dirt of ongoing. Right.

Steve Adams: Right.

Guest: So where's. Where's Brad going? Where's Steve going?

Brad Formsma: Uh, who are we becoming?

Steve Adams: Yeah.

Guest: Ah, I'm going to work. I'm going to family. You know, um, I'm in my community. And so that's where I realized, you know, I think we have a stewardship over the gifts that God gives us. Fact. First Peter 4, 10 says, as each has received a gift, use it to serve one another as faithful stewards of God's manifold grace. So you. I. Anybody listening to this? God has gifted. You've been given gifts. And we are to steward those by serving others. Well, I do that in the real estate business. A plumber can do that as a plumber. So if you're. If you're thought. If you think about it, that terms. Okay. God has gifted me with certain skill sets.

Brad Formsma: Right.

Guest: How. How am I using that to serve my fellow man? You know, it. I think Piper said, if it's. It needs to be good for people and glorify God.

Brad Formsma: You know, very simple. Right.

Guest: Is what. Is what I'm doing good for people? And does it glorify God?

Brad Formsma: Yeah.

Guest: And so, so Jeff and I began to talk about the idea of, you know, in the culture we're living in right now, uh, we're so sensitive about so many different things. And again, there's some things we should be, but we need to stand on the truth.

Brad Formsma: Right.

Guest: And so we had this idea of gathering, um, you know, faith based business people together and actually, you know, yes, it's some, um, networking. Yes, we do business together, but ultimately for the purpose of making disciples. Yes. When you put, when you put Christian on, on your label, on your name, that can draw a lot of people. We said, you know, the Christian chamber is a big funnel.

Brad Formsma: Uh, yeah. Right.

Guest: And you're going to get a lot of people who are going to come in there because they identify as Christians.

Brad Formsma: Right.

Guest: But what we want them to hear is the gospel. Yeah. And so, and let it, let them come down that funnel. And it may be, you know, hey, here's a guy I'm getting to know and I want to hear his story. And this is an opportunity for us to build relationship. We may do business together, but ultimately I want us to be iron sharpening iron.

Brad Formsma: Yeah.

Guest: So anyway, yeah, that's kind of what the chamber, uh, was kind of initially started to, you know, started with, to just make disciples.

Brad Formsma: Make this happen. Question I have for you is what do you, what role do you believe, uh, that becoming a disciple yourself plays in you being an effective disciple maker?

Guest: Well, I love this phrase that Tommy Nelson in Denton, Texas. I don't know if you're familiar with Tommy.

Brad Formsma: Uh, no, I'm not. Yeah, I mean, I know Thomas Nelson

Guest: publishers, but yeah, different guy. Tommy Nelson's a Dallas seminary grad.

Brad Formsma: Okay.

Guest: Pastored Denton Bible Fellowship.

Brad Formsma: Okay.

Guest: Years. I think Tommy just retired.

Brad Formsma: Okay.

Guest: Well, not that there's retirement for any of us, but.

Brad Formsma: No, no, I know what you mean. Yeah.

Guest: Tommy had this great phrase and I loved it. He said, as a Christian, you cannot pedal unapplied truth. Uh, in other words. Wow.

Brad Formsma: In other words, so good.

Guest: You're not going to go out and make disciples unless you're being disciple.

Brad Formsma: Right.

Guest: Yep. You know, and, and that's really, you know, going back even to this Bible. I, uh, often if I go speak somewhere, I take this Bible because I want people to understand the value of one man, one person pouring into another. Yep. And so I, I, you and maybe some of your listeners and viewers, uh, have had that great fortune and the blessing of having an, of having another man pour into you or a woman pour into A woman. And so for me, that's been the course of my life. From my brother in law who really was, uh, instrumental in leading me to Christ, to, um, business partners and clients and all sorts of people.

Brad Formsma: And so it's like your brother too, that. I don't know if it was your brother who gave you that Bible. In 81, he said something the effect of you have to self feed as well and building that daily habit of studying the word of God yourself.

Guest: Yeah, well, it was my brother in law. He married, he married my sister. Yep. And uh, and you know, it's, it's like if you, you go look at Acts 17:11.

Brad Formsma: Okay.

Guest: Where Paul is talking about, uh, he's talking about the Bereans. And he's, he's speaking, he says, he said, he's speaking of the Bereans. He says they were more noble than those in Thessalonica. They examine the scriptures daily.

Brad Formsma: Yes.

Guest: To see, to see if these things were true. Well, you know, we're living in a time where we've got so much information, podcasts galore, great pastors, great communicators, but we need Bereans. We need, we need men and women who aren't just going and filling a pew and being consumers, hearing it.

Brad Formsma: Right.

Guest: Yeah, exactly. They, they are men and women who are examining the scriptures. Uh, in fact, that word, it's exactly an examination. You go to the doctor and get an examination, he doesn't just glance at you.

Brad Formsma: Right.

Guest: It's an exam. Okay, so do we approach the scriptures in that way as, as business people do? I approach the scriptures daily to go, hey, God, you know, what is it? You know, God opened my eyes that I may behold wondrous things. Yeah. From your Word. Ah, think. Things that will transform my life. Things that will sanctify me. What did Jesus said? He said in his high priestly prayer, he says, sanctify them and the truth. Your word is truth. So as, as business leaders, we better be examining the scriptures daily because I don't know about you, but if I'm not in the Word, I'm gonna, I'm gonna lean heavily toward the world than I am the world.

Brad Formsma: The word, like a week. Like, it doesn't take me long at all. Right.

Guest: No. If you look at that cup, I've got this, I've got this water here. But if, if, if this represents my life and I can tell you're from Texas. Exactly. 80%. 80% of this bottle is filled with what the world has to offer. Yep. Which it's hard not to. With the amount of information it weighs. Heavy.

Brad Formsma: Right.

Guest: But if only a very small portion of this represents my spiritual nourishment as a business leader, as a husband, as a father, as a community leader, even as a church leader, if. If only 20% of this bottle represents my spiritual nourishment, let's be honest, we're malnourished spiritually.

Brad Formsma: Yeah.

Guest: Yep. And so I think there's a. There's a certain stewardship that we have as to what we allow to come in, what we allow to, uh, you know, transform our minds, you know, do not be conformed to this world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. So that's a big. That's a big part. That's part of the. My passion is to see men, you know, and I can just drill into that and say, husbands, fathers.

Brad Formsma: Yep.

Guest: Your primary ministry is at home. And even though it's in the Word. Absolutely.

Brad Formsma: Because I would even add grandfather. Because you want to finish well. Finish well.

Guest: Exactly.

Brad Formsma: Yeah. Right. You have. You have 15 young people that are really watching you.

Guest: Exactly.

Brad Formsma: You know what I mean?

Guest: So, uh, let me, let me read. Let me read this to you real quick.

Brad Formsma: Yeah.

Guest: This Bible is completely falling apart. And I've had it rebound twice over the last since 1981. Wow. This is what my brother in law wrote in the front of this Bible for me as I got in his car that morning in 1981. He says, but his delight is in the law of the Lord. And in his law he meditates day and night. And he will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season, and its leaf does not wither. And then whatever he does, he prospers, of course. Psalm 1, verses 2 through 3. He says, what a great promise. He says, begin now, claiming it and activating it in your life. Let His Word. Let His Word rule your heart and mind. Read it, study it, memorize it, meditate on it, and love it. Do as those in Thessalonica receive the Word with great eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things are true. He says, may you be able to say as Solomon did not. One word has failed of all his good promises. First Kings 8:56. He says, finally, be diligent. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed handling accurately the word of truth. Second Timothy 2, 15. Wow. Uh, those words have shaped my mission for the past 40 years. And, um, you know, there's been a lot of train wreck along the, along the way. Uh, but the importance of having other people in your life, men in your life as a man, women in your life who have wisdom and experience and have a knowledge of that word, it is vital.

Brad Formsma: That's the big message I'm hearing from you, Brad. And, um, as we wrap up here, is there any last thing you'd want to say to young entrepreneurs that are watching this?

Guest: Yes, absolutely.

Brad Formsma: It's all yours. The floor is yours, my friend.

Guest: One, one of the things he said in there is meditate on it and memorize it. So I love God's word. I love to hide it in my heart. Yep. First Peter 2. 9 says, you are a chosen people. You're a royal priesthood. You're a holy nation. You are a people of God's own possession. Now think about that in a world that, where people are struggling for identity, that, that's your identity. But, but listen to the end, listen to the end of that verse. Here's the purpose. That's your identity. Here's your purpose that you might proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness and to end his marvelous light. So as, as we leave and go to work, we are his people. We are, we are his actual possession. Um, that we might proclaim his excellencies. So whether you're selling real estate, whether you're an electrician, a roofer, a home builder, a physician, it doesn't matter. Go proclaim His Excellencies. Yeah.

Brad Formsma: Wow. Thank you, Brad. I. Yeah, uh, crossed my mind, was thinking several of my friends who are doing that and the way you tied that all together is amazing. And I'm glad we're recording it because, uh, that's gold. Um, thanks again for being on the IBAM Kingdom Summit.

Guest: I appreciate it. Thank you for the invite.

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