How To Respond To Challenges To HRD Academic Programs

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to HRD Masterclass. It's a unique resource featuring over 130 HRD experts across 55 episodes. As a fan of the series, you can help make season six happen. AHRD is crowdsourcing funding for the season and you can donate today@uhgivebutter.com HRD AH Masterclass. With your help, the season can bring you 11 new episodes focused on major HRD research articles, their practical implications, the need for further research, and how researchers and practitioners can help each other to advance research and practice on the topics. It would be amazing to continue the series and I hope you'll consider donating today at uh garage. Givebutter.com HRD Masterclass 6 right, let's dive into the episode this episode is dedicated to the memory of Dr. Sangok Yoo, Assistant professor of Human Resource Development at the University of Texas at UH Tyler, who tragically passed away in November of 2025 following a car accident. Dr. Yu was a long time and devoted member of AHRD. He served with great dedication as the Chair of the Quantitative Research Method sig, contributing immensely to our community through his scholarship, leadership and mentorship. His passion for advancing rigorous HRD research has left a lasting mark on our field and on all who had the privilege to work with him. On behalf of the Academy, we extend our UH heartfelt sympathy to Dr. Yu's family, friends, colleagues and students. He will be deeply missed.

Speaker B: The field and academic programs are at an inflection point. I think we're facing challenges, but this is not the first time in history we have faced challenges and it won't be the AH last.

Speaker A: Welcome to Human Resource Development Masterclass, the podcast series from the Academy of Human Resource Development, the organization that leads HRD through research. I'm your host, Darren Short, and here in our fifth season, we're exploring some of our listeners top how to questions with the help of leading authors, researchers and scholars. In this final episode of the season, we're focusing on the question of how to respond to challenges to HRD academic programs programs and you'll hear a conversation recorded in September of 2025. This episode brings together the current President of Ah Ahrd, Dr. Sung Won Yoon of Texas A and M University, the current President elect of AH AHRD, Dr. Joshua Collins of the University of Minnesota and um, The President of AHRD, AH from 2020 to 2022, Dr. Laura L. Behrma of the University of Georgia. The conversation is facilitated by the current past president of AHRD, Dr. Khalil Durrani of Texas A and M M university. Just visit orbypodcast.com programs to learn more about the bios of uh, our four participants in today's episode and also to connect with our UH episode sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you thanks to the sponsorship support of the Academy of Human Resource Development. Are you ready to transform HRD in 2026? Join AHRD at the Dallas Fort Worth Airport Marriott in Irving, Texas from February 11th to 13th, 2026 for the 33rd International Research Conference in the Americas. This conference's theme is Engaged Healthy and Whole Driving, Learning and Performance for an Empowered Workforce. And it invites HRD scholars, researchers, practitioners and students to explore how engagement, well being and holistic development shape the future of work and learning. Also new to this conference is a practitioner workshop happening on February 12, 2026. The conference keynote session is with Dr. Brad Schuck, a globally recognized expert in employee engagement, organizational culture and workforce well being. A tenured professor at the University of Louisville and co founder of Org Vitals. He partners with Fortune 500 companies and global nonprofits to drive meaningful cultural changes, experience thought provoking keynotes, cutting edge research sessions and roundtables that challenge assumptions and advance the field of hrd. Whether you're a seasoned professional or first time attendee, the 2026 AHRD conference is your gateway to professional development, community networking, collaboration and actionable solutions. Registration is now open@ahrd.org right, let's dive into the episode.

Speaker C: Well, I'm excited to be joined today by Senwan, Josh and um, Laura. Welcome all three of you to this, uh, episode. There are probably many places that we could start our discussion, um, on the state of HRD academic programs here in the United States. But I am thinking that it could help listeners around the world if we begin by explaining where we are and how we got here. So, Laura, uh, would you be willing to get the ball rolling by sharing your thoughts of the current climate on HRD and the hrd, uh, academic programs in the United States, as well as the factors, uh, that are most influencing this kind of climate.

Speaker B: Well, sure. Thank you Halil. And gosh, thank you so much to Darren for the invitation to be on this podcast. And it's just really great to be reunited with the executive committee of ahrd and so I'll get things kicked off since this is really a shifting and profound moment for higher education in the United States in particular. And I think as a critical HRD scholar and certainly someone who pays attention to social context, it seems like we can't ignore the political climate. First of all in the United States. So I think I'm just going to dive in right there. And there's a heightened scrutiny on higher education. Uh, we've seen some states, particularly in the south, pass legislation that is restricting or defunding programs focusing on diversity, equity and inclusion in particular, as well as social justice. And I think these topics are central to human resource development. If we who are teaching people and doing research on learning and development and change in organizations, I don't know how we can ethically ignore issues of inclusion and justice. I think it does create a dilemma for many programs about adequately preparing our students to be humane leaders who make really good decisions for people, organizations and communities and live within, uh, conflicting messages and policies. So I think that for me it doesn't change what's important or what I value, that inclusivity and belonging and healthy workplaces are values that I think people want. And so I'm very committed to that. I also think that academic freedom is certainly under attack and what that means. And if we um, do have the right to speak freely, it seems like it's under attack in the current political environment. And so I think in this moment HRD programs really need to think about their relevance and role in protecting academic freedom as well as advocating for more just workplaces and societies. So maybe that's a good place to stop, um, as we get started and invite my wonderful colleagues to share some of your thoughts.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you. Laura. Uh, let me go to Josh. Josh, do you have any response or do you have any additions to uh, Laura's?

Speaker D: I quite obviously agree with everything that Dr. Birma said and I'll take maybe a slightly different approach in answering this question. And I'd say I would kind of characterize the climate right now as uneven and highly pressurized. So. So uh, what I mean by that is of course all of the social and political challenges that Laura just named. But also if we look kind uh, of at the characteristics of enrollment in our institutions, so you think about how total post secondary enrollment is actually up this past year, particularly at community colleges. So I think that if we think about the future of HRD in this climate change, there's an obvious source, um, access for HRD to have access to worker learner pipelines, um, people are still interested in receiving higher education. On the other hand, first year enrollment at a lot of our research one types of institutions is down. You're seeing enrollment dip also with challenges, uh, related political challenges around financial aid and roll out problems with programs like FAFSA and Several institutions cutting programs and making decisions that can impact HRD in this climate. So you know, then of course you add to that the policy headwinds. So multiple states restricting DEI infrastructure, demanding or making demands around hiring, curriculum and campus climate related to diversity, whether that's LGBTQ issues and in particular, um, transgender people tend to be under attack in this moment and of course continuing to perpetuate the cycle of racism that has defined our country's history and um, is heightened again in this moment. So at the same time employers are talking a lot more about skills based hiring. We've been hearing that for at least a decade, but you're seeing it pop up even more and more. So I think there are a lot of challenges, but the discipline of hrd, you know, really should be ready to meet those challenges. A lot of them are things that we've been talking about for quite some time. We're just kind of seeing them come forth and become a part of our reality now.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you. Josh. Uh, Senhuang, do you have any additions to what Laura and Josh shared with us?

Speaker E: I of course agree with everything and I'd like to add a couple additional perspectives. So I happen to teach change theory this semester and uh, one of the discussion question uh, I share and ask is what are major factors, internal, external, that are uh, affecting, influencing the change. And so hearing like what's happening, seeing what's happening outside of course like uh, these factors uh, fluctuate and change uh other than political, uh, environments, climate, energy, economy, uh, technologies, AI. These days, uh, you cannot have a conversation without AI internally. Uh, when I uh get this question, images that come to my mind are adjectives describing how dynamic uh higher education is, how braver or challenging uncertain things are. But uh, uh when we deal with a crisis we uh, try to focus on uh, what is our identity, what are our true mission and vision. And so like uh, media still uh portray like public perceptions uh, about higher education, like moving more, viewing it as a private good rather than public good. And so I look at all these factors. Recently I have been to two, uh, summit the state of Texas. Uh, the heavy investment is in uh, semiconductor and quantum. And I had an opportunity to hear from uh, leaders in industry, government and academia. And one perspective I got is uh, when it comes to change, it starts, seems to start with a federal policy or what's happening outside and where the priority lies and the planning like investment. We hear a lot about workforce development. And so I like to like wrap up my part as uh, even though like the allocation of resources and planning priorities fluctuate uh every sector I hear different states prioritize workforce, education and development, critical needs, talent development and uh, like those some of the leaders definition understanding of workforce is very nebulous like mostly job uh placement and that's it. But I see opportunities uh, as ah, an entity that really uh, uh, values and provides expertise in human component. In the hype of AI. Human AI in the loop or agent AI, I see a huge opportunity for us to play in what's coming ahead.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you San Juan. And as I reflect on all your responses and my own experience, uh, actually I was preparing for this uh, episode like a few days ago. The first day I was thinking maybe the best answer my, my uh, my colleagues would say is AI, uh affecting the HRD field and academic programs. And then the very next day uh, a president got fired from a university, uh, uh, Texas A and M University actually. And then the third day uh, I was reading the news and it was about uh H1B visas uh for scholars. And I'm sure uh, higher education institutions uh will be affected by some of these policies. So that talks about change uh and it's not incremental. These are very transformative uh, effects of the climate. With that I want to go back to Laura, uh and ask you um, how did we get to this point? What's a brief history of HRD academic programs in the United States and uh, from from the 90s 2000s until now and your perspective uh, about where we are now?

Speaker B: Well, thank you, uh, I'm enjoying the conversation in fact and just to kind of circle back to the first question, um, I saw an article this morning um, from Bloomberg that U.S. student visa arrivals have fallen to a flight four year low. And so I do think things that are happening here are affecting um, a lot of things in higher education and certainly AI and concerns about climate change and DEI as we've talked about. So the field of HRD really has a rich history that I think emerged in the second half of the 20th century. And I always like to say that it kind of grew up alongside adult education, uh, which you know in those early days was focused on helping people be. And this is adult education, you know, good citizens, workers and family and community members. I think that you know, HRD focused on um, organizations as we know and certainly had a tradition of humanism that grew out of the human relations movement. And then we saw the emergence of OD in the late 50s. And so you know, I think there's been a Long tradition of focusing on learning, development and change in organizations of all kinds. Um, you know, dating back to Nadler certainly and I think Malcolm Knowles. If we think of adult education emerging at the same time, you know, I think many, for many years, I think as long as I've been in hrd, people have described it as an emerging field, which I actually don't believe it is an emerging field. I think we're an established and always continually evolving field. However, I don't think that the mission of the work we do has changed a whole lot. When you really think about advancing learning and development and change, um, at all levels of the organization from individual to group to organization to society. I think how we do that and what the concerns, um, in social context change. But good practices of human development and organizations I think have been a study though how does it look for academic programs in particular? Um, but I also think that people who are practicing HRD are feeling the same pressures we talked about that are affecting higher education. Um, it seems to me that we are going to continue to see, see um, opportunities for interdisciplinary approaches. For example, at the University of Georgia we are in conversations with multiple units about a master's in health professions education. And um, we have uh, programs that are attracted, students are attracted from all different types of professions. At least in my experience. Um, we've seen quite a growing demand for flexible formats and uh, hybrid models and online learning. And in spite of I think the pressures on dei actually um, more emphasis on critical and social perspectives to face the pressing problems of the moment, I think uh is very important. And of course last but not least is technology. And how do we responsibly integrate AI and you know, analytics into HRD practices are things that I think about. So I think HRD has always been a flexible field. It's been multidisciplinary and socially responsive. And to me those constants need to continue. Um, so I think those are wonderful legacies of our history that to me guide me now.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you Laura. Uh, well I um, agree with you but I would like to hear uh, from my uh, colleague. My colleague, uh, about uh, his perspective on academic programs history.

Speaker E: So thank you for a great summary of our identity. So uh, before I came to Texas A and M, uh, you are looking at three of us from Texas A and M, University of Georgia and of course uh, the huh academic home people call it University uh, of Minnesota. And so I like to uh, briefly mention about uh, the foundation of AHRD in 1993, like among uh faculty members within the association of Talent Development who felt strongly about the need for deeper expertise in the discipline and deeper professionalization other than certificates and courses. So uh. And also the 1996 ADL HR special issue really captures uh the major uh aspects uh of the academy and including academic uh programs. Uh so like uh. The special issue talks about uh uh how like uh different practices uh such as uh GI Beer like training needs uh from the industry uh needs to uh prepare our workforce better as well as uh curriculum uh trends. Uh it's interesting to see how at that time like two studies looked at the curriculum identified like instructional design training as a core. Uh even though we still like you believe many curriculum uh are uh organized around OD organizational development. But those uh courses organizational development career development were ranked uh as like 15, 20 uh within uh most uh academic programs. And like Lola uh mentioned these are evolving. And so uh. When I look at uh the whole history like I try to break down by decade. And so since the beginning uh of the uh field in the 50s 60s uh and also I mentioned about uh the foundation of the academy and those curriculum studies were done in late uh 90s and early 20s. And of course there's a globalization aspect ahld we uh identify ourselves as a global uh association. Uh actually we have also partner in Europe and uh Asia and uh Middle Eastern region. Even though the way they operate is a little bit different. Uh we are ah engaged in many program exchanges and uh. We have annual conferences. One thing I'd like to quickly mention is uh. Since 2000 uh like including global financial crisis and uh the birth and explosive growth of AI. I don't really feel like uh curriculum of HRD programs in the middle of merger and acquisitions uh doesn't reflect these changes. Uh well. But of course uh working at different institutions I see that uh program meetings, monthly meetings. We are actively engaging in how we update uh uh make our curriculum relevant up to date so that uh we really deliver to uh our students. Because students demographics are changing too. You probably heard about graduates. There will be fewer jobs in the academy and people are open to industry and the way that our bachelor students and master students are uh expecting to learn and where they go. The good news is I see our graduates are doing uh amazing like in terms of a promotion taking different roles. And the feedback we hear is like uh. They are uh taking more strategic uh change management roles in the academy. And so that's my kind of uh view of uh. Like how uh we came to this point and what. What is happening.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you senua. Uh, Josh, uh, what, what other things you'd like to add or comment on? Based on Laura and Senwang's answers, I'm

Speaker D: definitely a firm believer that our history helps us understand our future. Um, so kind of picking up on some of what Laura highlighted in particular. You know, I think about the roots of HRD back to kind of vocational education and workforce development and how those traditions were built around the idea that learning should be connected to the realities of work. Right? That education should be practical, that it should open doors for people who might otherwise be excluded from opportunity. And so when you look at the very vocational education programs that kind of influenced the early HRD academic programs, especially often those vocational education programs were serving immigrants, they were serving working class communities, they were serving adults who needed reskilling in order to keep pace with industry and technological shifts. We're seeing a lot of these things again. So in many ways the vocational education that informed the early days of hrd, those were kind of the first large scale attempts at, uh, lifelong learning directed at people's professional and workforce development. And I think that those roots are very, very relevant right now. So we're again, in this period of rapid economic and technological transformation. Of course we have AI automation of all sorts, uh, demographic change, um, drives demand for reskilling as well. So policymakers and employers are calling for skills based pathways for stackable credentials and tighter linkages between higher education, industry and um. I don't know about all of you at your institutions, but we're constantly being asked, like, every piece of our curriculum, every degree that we offer, like, how does that lead to a career pathway? And essentially I think this rearticulates the goals that vocational education pursued a century ago. So if HRD loses sight of this lineage, I think we risk ceding some ground to others that might prioritize efficiency over equity in the way that HRD is, is uniquely positioned to do. But this is also where we have to be, I think as a field, extremely cautious. So historically, vocational education was criticized for tracking certain populations into lower status jobs, reinforcing class, racial and gender inequities. And so we're at a moment where we could very easily repeat that history if we capitulate to the demands of social and political leaders who are disconnected from, in my opinion, the actual needs of the workforce and the needs of individual learners. And so as HRD scholars, we have to build on the ethos of that vocational education history while also safeguarding academic freedom and ensuring that DEI and critical reflection remain central to what we're doing. And so, uh, when I, again just, I think of the history, I see clear linkages to current problems that we're facing. And in some ways it's encouraging to know that these problems have been faced before with some success in overcoming them. Of course, they look different now. The power behind them can sometimes feel and is more threatening at times. But I do think that there are solutions for our future that are rooted in understanding this history of our discipline.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you, Josh. And I feel like a student grasping and learning from all of you. This is wonderful. So to, to sum up a little bit here, like the, with the tension between training and learning, formal education, informal uh, learning, uh, like coursework, uh, uh, in, in academia versus micro credentials or uh, as Laura mentioned, flexible uh, learning opportunities for our, uh, preparing uh, our students for the workforce. I want to uh, go back to you, Josh, and ask, uh, you uh, like, looking ahead, where do you see this going? How do you see HRD academic programs changing in the next few years?

Speaker D: Well, the first thing I would say is we should become really resourceful at utilizing the human and material resources that are currently available to us and prepare for a future where new resources may not be allocated. And I think that it's just wise to name that reality. Some of us may face hiring challenges. Some of us may face challenges in terms of proposing new coursework. For example, I have had colleagues say, like they have previously taught courses with diversity in the title and they've now they're not allowed to teach those courses or they've been told they have to retitle the courses. These are challenges that are definitely ahead. You know, when I think about how will HRD programs change, we may see some, for lack of a better way of describing it, some bifurcation in terms of what programs are able to do, uh, based on their specific geographic location within the United States and the ways that their local and state governments are or are not capitulating to federal demands around a lot of these issues. So in some ways that opens up opportunities for those who are positioned in institutions where less challenges are being faced or where we have more institutional support to continue work around diversity. And for folks who find themselves at those kinds of institutions, I would say keep up the good work and amplify that work as much as possible. And for those who find themselves at institutions where their work may be constrained by some of the current conversations, how can you continue to advance the ideals that are important to you and important to our field in ways that do tend to your own Personal, uh, protection and safety, um, while also advancing the ideals of equity and inclusion. Um, and how can we maybe build some cross institutional partnerships to build pathways that exist outside of our institutions to make sure that our students are getting access to this information regardless of where in the United States they happen to be studying? Those are, those are some of my main thoughts. Of course. I think we're going to see a lot more modularity or we'll be encouraged to move toward a lot more modularity, a lot more work, integrated formats. Of course, AI and AI infused curriculum and pedagogy is going to be um, increasingly a part of the conversation. So I think that there are a lot of opportunities, but what is required at this moment is to really strengthen the community that's provided through organizations like the Academy of HRD and make sure that we find ways to support each other, um, through these various challenges.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you so much, Josh. Laura, given what Josh shared with us about the uh, foreseeable future and the challenges that HRD programs face, where do you see us going in the next few years and what some of the challenges that those academic programs, uh, specifically HRD programs phase, uh, to get there?

Speaker B: Thank you, Halil. Well, and I think picking up where Josh ended is, you know, I think that AHRD can play an important role in creating spaces for safe and brave dialogue and making sense of the current context, but also planning for the future future. And you know, in some ways perhaps, you know, the field, um, and academic programs are at an inflection point. I mean, I think we're facing challenges, but this is not the first time in history, you know, we have faced challenges and it won't be the last. And so I do think the field, HRD academic programs, practitioners are uniquely positioned to respond to the precious pressing issues that we face right now, uh, whether they're political, economic, um, social climate, etc. To me, our field in a very small nutshell, helps people and organizations leverage learning and change to respond. And I don't feel like, uh, learning gets its due respect at the current moment where we see a lot of reactive thinking and logic and certainly actions versus you know, trying to um, engage in generative dialogue to solve wicked problems. So I do think we play a role there. I am not naive enough to think that DEI isn't under attack, but I think as a critical scholar, I also think it's important for us to name things and not get cave to pressures to convert our language to what the powers that Biwana tell us is the right way to Call things such as erasing diversity, equity and inclusion and justice from our language. To me that feels kind of the antithesis of what our field represents. I think also upholding um, the important concepts and principles that we have represented and valued for decades is important to me. So I think those are just some reactions and thoughts I have. Where do we go from here? I think doing those things and supporting practitioners, scholars and students who are learning this very crucial process of human resource development.

Speaker C: Thank you. May I ask you a follow up question? Uh, so, um, like in academia we have to, I don't want to use the word balance but we, we need to look at compliance versus uh, academic freedom or what we, what we teach. Could you, could you share your uh, either your experience in that or uh, what you think uh, is happening nowadays?

Speaker B: Well, and certainly, you know, I'm at a public institution so we do have to comply with what is legislative. In Georgia, the DEI has not been legislated out of um, you know, the things that we're allowed to teach. But I know that has happened in other states, but you know, we aren't allowed to ask job candidates about their DEI statements or thoughts, for example. But you know, I do think there's ways of working for this in different ways. I mean, I think ah, our students have to learn about these issues and they have to learn if they're leaders. You know, how do you respond, uh, when you have racism in the workplace or um, inequities, um, that you would like to change? And you know, I don't think just because it's, it's perhaps not politically popular that the ethics behind ensuring everyone who wants to work and have a career has an opportunity for access and support when they get into the career path that they are interested in and the organization they hope to work in. I believe it's a human right to have that opportunity. And I think our field plays a really important role in helping adults who will spend a large part of their life working have a work that is fulfilling and affirming. So I don't know if that answers your question, but I don't think we can ignore things. I think we have to find new and creative ways to uphold the values of our field, which, you know, I, I do every single day.

Speaker C: I think, yeah, we can do that in the classroom, can do that with our uh, mentoring. We can do that uh, while we're in compliance in our research, in our research. That's true.

Speaker E: I wanted to add a little bit about uh, the reality and what it takes because uh, this is my 25th year about as a faculty from day one, uh I intentionally served on a curriculum committee at different institutions in different programs. And what I'm trying to share is what it takes to uh update and uh build good courses and good curriculum because like academic programs I saw uh growing only when like uh uh our graduates are successful and when they recommend the programs uh to others. And so uh. Like uh. In order to uh get on approach people think uh new course development can be a job, can be done in maybe one year. You have a course in mind, you can teach them next year. It doesn't work that way like uh. In order to propose a new course in academia, like you have to submit a form, uh where you have to explain uh how this course doesn't overlap with other courses at the university. But also like if you propose a ah certificate concentration or new degree then uh, you have to like explain how other institutions within certain miles like don't offer this. So there are like these uh justifications that uh uh uh can take longer uh for the faculty to go through and uh. My uh limited experiences at least it takes like three to five years to add a significant component. And so what I like to bring back is uh. I really believe in the core of what we offer. Because uh. Whether it is a leadership evaluation, organization development and like a culture, uh uh. Equity, inclusion. I believe uh we differentiate and uh. People come to us because they truly believe in the value of what people uh uh offer and bring. Because whether it is our innovation, intangible assets, it comes down to always the best decision, growth. Good things come uh at the start of the individual. And so uh, uh last thing I want to mention is uh at A and M, this is my fourth year, uh and I am biased but I worked in instructional technology uh for about a dozen years and I formally worked as an IT manager. And so I decided to uh offer multiple courses in social, uh network analysis, machine learning, text mining. Uh when we deal with a lot of this messy complex situation, our resources are constrained. And so uh for uh any individual faculty to tackle this like what seems to be a very uh difficult task, a challenging task. Uh we have resources around whether it is a faculty development center, senior faculty who have experienced and understand the process. And within the academy we have a Program Excellence Network. We have a special interest group, uh and uh. Particularly the Penn Program Excellence Network, uh uh is an entity uh that uh maybe about 20 some now uh program uh coordinators of HRD program programs throughout the country are uh like gathering and Sharing, uh, courses, enrollments, uh, student supports, like, uh, trends, uh, happening. And so I invite, uh, who are listening to this episode and who are interested in like a new course development, uh, revisions or curriculum to join the Academy.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you, Simone. Uh, well, you switched the uh, professor's, uh, hat with the president's hat of Academy of Human Development. So I will uh, go back to Laura. As a past president of the Academy of Human Resource Development. What do you see or where do you see ahrd Ah, helping those academic programs in the United States?

Speaker B: Well, you know, again, I think that we have a responsibility to prepare professionals who are going to do HRD work, who are technically competent and socially conscious and that, you know, they are creating humanly sustainable organizations. And uh, I think that we have to respond in the moment, but I think the basics are also important. Not to lose is how do we help practitioners and scholars do this work of learning and development and change in organizations in ways that I hope will respond to pressing problems of the moment, whether they be technical or social or economic or environmental. Some things that I see us doing in my own institution are rethinking our curriculum and formats, for example, because if we want to be relevant, we have to think about what our graduates going to do. We are a graduate only program, so what are we preparing people to do? I think it's important. We have to continually ask and ensure, for example, like digital fluency and use of AI, um, how are we preparing people to use that response responsibly, for instance, to facilitate change or learning? I think we've mentioned a few times partnerships and collaborations, and I think that those will continue to be important. And I think some things that we're seeing kind of maybe on a more micro level is stackable credentials or stackable certificates. So being creative in what we're offering so that we can compete with other credentialing organizations. And I actually think we have to, um, you know, maybe double down on critical perspectives because, you know, I think questioning power, privilege and inequity are important roles that people who are tasked with shepherding the learning and development of people in their work lives is important and should not be lost in this moment, uh, because it might not be politically expedient. So those are some thoughts. Um, I think we do have to be advocates, which I know Josh has written about this, for the distinctive value of HRD within higher education and organizations. And I do think AHRD plays a really important role. But I think all of us who work in this field need to be, you Know, kind of guardians of HRDs Identity and contributions in society.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you, Laura. So, Josh, I, uh, know the, uh, current, past and past president on this, uh, episode. We faced Covid. We faced, uh, transformational change. We faced so many things. And now it's AI and everything that's happening politically, uh, and otherwise, uh, in academia. So how do you see as a future, as a incoming president of the academy, where do you see HRD can help, uh, academic programs face the challenges that we are facing nowadays?

Speaker D: And for me to answer that question, I'm going to go back to the conversation on compliance that we were just having, because folks who engage with HRD from a critical perspective have long understood that compliance is about power. And so we have to acknowledge, of course, as Laura noted, um, institutions and we as individuals, frankly, we have no choice often but to comply with certain aspects of federal and state law. There's really like, no way around that. But compliance is not a neutral act. It reflects the interests of those who have defined the rules. So for hrd, I think the challenge is to ask what does it mean to comply in ways that protect our ability to do our work? And what does it mean to comply in ways that protect dignity and justice rather than erode them? So I think that means being pragmatic, finding ways to work within the constraints of policy, but also being subversive and creative, carving out spaces where equity and academic freedom can thrive regardless of what's going on around us. So I think if we, if we just comply and think of it as a neutral act, we risk becoming administrators of control. Right? We're just perpetuating a system that has been thrust upon us and working through that system as uncritical actors. But I think if we approach with some criticality, we can actually transform the act of compliance into a practice of accountability that bends people back toward our core mission of enhancing people, communities, um, and the future of humane work. So what does this mean? Functionally, it means, even in states where DEI language is restricted, that programs can still embed equity by framing it through organizational effectiveness, psychological safety, talk about it from the perspective of risk management. But there are ways to creatively teach some of the same critical content under categories that policymakers have authorized. Um, and that is compliance on paper, but it is a subversive practice. And then I think this is really where the academy of HRD has a critical role. Obviously, I do not think that we can expect every individual faculty member or program to figure this out on their own or to feel brave enough to do Some of this work on their own. So I think that the Academy can be a place where we are hopefully sharing strategies for navigating restrictions, circulating curriculum, um, that preserves equity, publishing briefs that document what's lost when academic freedom is curtailed. And I think that we can step into, as Laura was noting, a stronger, a stronger advocacy role. So hopefully finding ways to speak as a collective voice about the dangers of hollow compliance, um, the importance of justice centered hrd. And I think in that sense HRD is not just a professional association as we all know. It is a ah community that can be a shield, it can be a laboratory and it can be a beacon of what's possible for faculty and students who are trying to uphold integrity in a highly compromised environment.

Speaker E: Thank you uh Lola and Josh for sharing this perspective. Like uh, I am currently serving the academy as a 17th president and each president term is for two years. And uh, my term uh will uh end uh next year February. And uh, I like hearing this uh is really uh amazing and wonderful because I see uh myself as a scholar, uh with a primary interest in like technologies and AI, uh not because of my background but I see that's where those are one of the major factors. And uh, the more I think about um how we started and where we are now, uh we are the most immediate uh leadership uh uh roles. But when I look at the AHRD podcast I know that's uh what lolar you initiated. And every president leaves a legacy. The uh, uh identity, uh work we do has expanded a lot and I am thankful for our founding fathers and past president and every volunteers who served for the academy because uh, without genres, without conferences, without communities where you want to, you can present and you can share, you can find your partners in crime, uh, we cannot accomplish this. And so uh what I like to invite everyone is like uh, I like to uh say thank you career for uh taking the harem after the COVID And uh, I really uh did my best to get the uh board rolling again. And so I know there are lots of programs including HRD mentoring like Future Scholars and Leaders Academy. We are working hard to bring practitioners, uh bachelor students and master students, uh who will be our future leaders. Uh and so uh, I see I am in the middle of a transition. Uh there are a lot of work to do but I believe in the power and value of uh the Academy of Human Resource Development and HRD as a discipline.

Speaker C: Uh, I want to say over the last hour I really enjoyed listening to all three of you as a scholar and an academic leader. I really appreciated the insights you shared with us, but sadly, uh, we have reached the end of our time together here. Uh, today. We have so much more that we can talk about hopefully in a future episode, uh, part two, Continue, continue our discussion. But uh, for now I want to say, uh, thank you to the three of you for such an interesting discussion. Thank you so much.

Speaker E: Thank you.

Speaker D: Thanks.

Speaker B: Great to see everyone. Bye Bye.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for joining me for this episode. It was wonderful spending time with Khalil Durrani, Sung Won Yoon, Joshua Collins, and Laura Biermer. If you enjoyed this episode, check out our other 54 which contain conversations with over 100 leading scholars from around the world. To learn more about the series, check out hrdmasterclass.com and to learn more about the Academy of Human Resource Development, check out ahrd or also please check out our episode Sponsors Join AHRD at the Dallas Fort Worth Airport Marriott in Irving, Texas from February 11th to 13th, 2026 for the 33rd International Research Conference in the Americas. Organizations are invited to amplify their impact through sponsorship and exhibitor uh, opportunities from hosting keynote sessions, sponsoring conference breaks through to exhibiting sponsoring. AHRD AH connects you to a global network of HR, L&D, coaching, OD and talent development leaders on the frontier of innovation. Be part of a movement driving workplace well being and leadership for all. Secure your spot and explore the conference schedule and sponsorship packages.

Speaker E: Ah.

Speaker A: See you at AHRD 2026. The future of HRD starts here. Sadly, this is the final episode of season five. I hope you've enjoyed the 11 how to episodes that formed the season. Hopefully we'll be back with more episodes in the near future. Until then, stay safe. This is Darren Short signing off from the HRD Masterclass. HRD Masterclass Podcast is brought to you by the Academy of Human Resource Development and is a production of all by podcast.com. Thank you for listening to HRD Masterclass. It's a unique resource featuring over 130 HRD experts across 55 episodes. As a fan of the series, you can help make season six happen. AHRD is crowdsourcing funding for the season and you can donate today@uh.givebutter.com HRD-Masterclass 6. With your help, the season can bring you 11 new episodes focused on major HRD AH research articles, their practical implications, the need for further research, and how researchers and practitioners can help each other to advance research and practice on the topics. It would be amazing to continue the series and I hope you'll consider donating today at ah givebutter.com HRD Masterclass Hyphen 6.