Ep 719: Recruiting for Skills That Don't Exist Yet

Speaker A: Employers are facing more disruption today than ever before. Economic volatility, AI transformation, hybrid workforce challenges. Everything's changing all at once. The strategies that used to, uh, last five years now expire in three months. Some organizations are paralyzed by this chaos, while others are thriving by completely rethinking how they approach talent and workforce planning. So what separates the leaders from the laggards? And what should your organization be doing right now? Keep listening to find out.

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Speaker A: Um, um.

Speaker C: There's been more of scientific discovery, more of technical advancement and material progress in your lifetime and mine than in all the ages of history.

Speaker D: Hi there.

Speaker A: Welcome to episode 719 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alderman. Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps talent acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in foresight, influence, talent and technology. This episode is about foresight. The pace of change has become relentless. Economic volatility, AI adoption and geopolitical shifts are, uh, forcing companies to completely rethink their workforce strategies. Organizations that once planned in five year cycles are now refreshing their approaches quarterly or even monthly. This unprecedented disruption demands immediate action. But many HR and talent teams remain paralyzed by uncertainty. Traditional recruiting and development approaches simply can't keep pace with how rapidly skills requirements are evolving. So what concrete steps should companies take today to build resilience into their talent strategies? My guest this week is Peter Miskovich, global Future of work leader, uh, at JLL. Peter has spent 25 years helping Fortune 100 companies navigate workforce transformation, and he's never been busier, uh, than right now. In our conversation, Peter shares practical insights on building adaptive talent strategies, why continuous learning has become non negotiable, and the specific skills companies must prioritize ties immediately to remain competitive through constant change.

Speaker D: Hi, Peter, and welcome to the podcast.

Speaker E: Good to be with you today, Matt.

Speaker D: It's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Please, could you introduce yourself and tell everyone what you do?

Speaker E: Yes, certainly. Uh, Peter MISKOVICH I'm with JLL. We're a global real estate advisory investment firm, $23 billion firm. And, and I lead our global future of work transformation advisory practice. And I focus on enterprise organization, operating models, talent workforce strategies, AI enablement and workplace transformation. I've helped to uh, transform 1.5 billion square feet of corporate real estate, including 50 Fortune 100 headquarters. I work with uh, C suite teams across multiple industry sectors. I serve on a couple boards, the Accenture Technology Vision Board, the Siri Sustainability Board and the World Economic Forum. And I'm also affiliated with a number of universities. And I've been at this MAT for over 25 years developing comprehensive workforce, uh, and workplace transformation solutions for clients.

Speaker D: Fantastic stuff. You know, I'm really looking forward to this conversation, so let's kind of dive straight into it. So when you're, you know, you're working with clients to develop the sort of these future work, future focused strategies, one of the things that then most concerned about. We're in very uncertain times at the moment. Are there sort of particular issues that come up and how do you sort of build strategies that can adapt to changing scenarios?

Speaker E: Yes, Matt? Uh, well, it's an excellent question and I'll just share with you. In my 25 years, I don't think I've been busier than we are today. The challenges are increasingly more complex and we're working with a number of global clients on their 2030 strategies. And, and I'll just share with you some highlights in terms of the challenges we're seeing. The first and foremost is the integration of AI and workforce transformation and where that's going to support new and evolving business models. The hybrid work evolution Post pandemic, I was an early pioneer and luminary in hybrid work. Um, the hybrid work challenges are everywhere and clients need support to navigate all of that. The talent marketplace dynamics are changing dramatically. Regulatory complexity, um, at a global and country level is changing. I would add that economic volatility and uncertainty, especially in the last six months in the US and global, certainly has contributed to the challenges. And then geopolitical risks, climate change risks, global aging, um, demographic shifts. And then I'll just highlight Matt sort of the challenges of personal resilience and the age of anxiety is upon us given all of what I just described. And so client organizations are requiring a great deal of navigation support and counseling to help navigate, you know, everything we just described.

Speaker D: Um, yeah, I mean it's absolutely sort of crazy in terms of what's going on at the moment. Just in terms of just to dig in a little bit about how you kind of help them with that. Because obviously, you know, things change all the time. It's kind of very uncertain. Is it sort of building scenarios for them? What's the sort of the structure in terms of how you help them shape the future?

Speaker E: Yes, well, today more than ever with our leading client organizations, it's a very clear strategic co creation effort and looking at developing multiple scenarios that can be refreshed. We're also augmenting our scenario development efforts with artificial intelligence and other analytical tools which are very powerful. It's developing stakeholder engagement across the organization to ensure that all parties are engaged, informed. I think the leadership efforts in terms of developing multiple scenarios that then can be refreshed and that are inclusive, um, that allow for, you know, flexibility over time. That's really what we're seeing. And I'll just share with you Matt, once upon a time, you know, we develop a strategy and it was good for three to five years. Today we're developing scenarios and strategies and they're good for three months and sometimes within 30 day windows we're refreshing those strategies. Just given all of the discontinuous and disruptive change uh, that's underway.

Speaker D: Absolutely. It's a time where it's kind of very difficult to do that kind of planning, isn't it? Um, one of the kind of shifts that I've noticed a huge amount of uh, growing volume of talk about in the last um, you know, few, few months, certainly over the last um, the last year is this whole idea of a human AI hybrid workforce. So, and I think there's been some interesting sort of headlines around how companies have been dealing with that and potentially sort of structuring around it. Talk us through what's going on. How might organizations be structured around this kind of human AI hybrid and what are the sort of early indicators of that we're seeing of where it might, where it might go?

Speaker E: Yeah, it's an excellent question. And to give you a bit of historical context, um, Matt, I began, you know, working with and researching AI 15 to 20 years ago. I was involved in early um, programs with IBM, Watson cognitive computing. And I think what surprised everyone, including myself, is the November 2022 launch of OpenAI ChatGPT and then this accelerated volume velocity of AI enablement that has come to the marketplace at scale. And so for myself and many organizations, even those of us who have been in the artificial intelligence trenches, so to speak, looking at um, workforce strategies in terms of how to create the seamless AI human, and I'll use the word liquid quite a bit. I've been involved in liquid workforce strategies for many years and we used to use the term liquid to mean fluid adaptive, using contingent workers, fractional workers. But I'll add digital workers and AI colleagues to the liquid, uh, workforce equation. And so with that, the evaluation of operating models, organizational models, organizational constructs, how to create AI digital talent augmentation pods and capability, uh, networks, how to create new decision boundaries as to where does the human, you know, hand off to the AI, how to look at, um, continuous refreshment of these AI human collaborative ecosystems over time and how to be agile and liquid both in terms of operating model and org model, and then talent and workforce refreshment at sort of an accelerating rate. And I know that's sort of a lot to comprehend, but that is where we are and where we're going. Matt, uh, in terms of the, you know, AI hybrid workforce ecosystems and what

Speaker D: sort of choices are you seeing companies make already? Because there's obviously been a few stories of companies wanting to sort of sit technology under HR and you know, kind of really sort of shifting things around to do this. Which direction do you see companies going?

Speaker E: Well, the directions right now I think are multifaceted. And I will highlight, Matt, the more progressive client organizations that we're working with, and they certainly are looking at augmented AI hybrid workforce talent strategies. They're also looking at work redesign, work reimagination, workplace redesign, and looking at distributed leadership models, distributed workforce models, um, allowing their folks to, if you will, grow and develop within these more complex ecosystems. And they're taking a very human centric approach. And I'll highlight this further in our conversation. Creating an environment of psychological safety and continuous learning with talent and workforce, you know, refreshment, um, capabilities that will allow for the organization to be outcome focused, skills based, focused, AI enabled. And here this is where the CHRO and the CIO and the CEO and business leaders all really need to come together in a pretty seamless, integrated manner to address these new organizational and operating models. And yes, there will be, you know, headcount and workforce reduction, which we're beginning to see across organizations. However, there will be upskilling and new talent demands as organizations will require new human skilled individuals to orchestrate, manage, lead, provide wisdom, if you will, to navigate the complexity. So I know that's a little bit of a lengthy answer, but, um, that's what we're seeing with our more advanced clients right now. Support for, uh, this podcast comes from Pebble.

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Speaker D: Is it possible to kind of anticipate the sort of specific skills and capabilities that are going to be, you know, part of this? Are there any sort of skills that we, that we can spot that are going to be kind of essential sort of 2027 onwards that companies might not be looking to closely at, at the moment?

Speaker E: Yes Matt, absolutely. And I'll, I'll share with you my own personal journey. I've had to reskill myself every two to three years for the last 20 years. And one of the um, if you will, blessings or curses of consulting and being an advisor that either you're adding value or you're obsolete. And so my own personal career, you know, journey has been one of continuous reinvention. And so from a skills perspective if I look at my own journey and I look at where, you know, the workforce and where the world is going. The ability to have individuals who have the skills focused upon complexity, navigation, multi contextual thinking, AI, algorithmic literacy in terms of both judgment and discernment as to how to use AI most effectively with humans. AI augmentation mastery, um, AI engineering, cognitive um, prompt if you will. Engineering but not necessarily in the prompt, but knowing how to orchestrate AI successfully across large ecosystem teams, including ecosystem, uh, partners that may not be part of the organization. And then finally um, the skills of continuous, um, adaptive, adaptive learning. The ability to also reframe our own identities. And so you know I began my career, you know in engineering, um, I've moved into management consulting. But within the management consulting world I've had to reframe My identity at least six or seven times. And so I think there needs to be a comfort level with complexity, with identity, um, reimagination with complex systems, orchestration, collaborative leadership, a good dose of humility and a good dose of saying I don't know and I don't know a lot and I need to work with either people or machines that will help me know and help me learn. And so it's a tremendous um, learning development gap that exists today that many organizations will need to fulfill from ah, a skills and capabilities perspective. And then I'll just add Matt and I'll highlight this later in our conversation. Psychological safety and human resilience and well being will also be really key and human nurturing. The ability to, you know, Microsoft just released the infinite day research basically across a trillion, you know, Microsoft telemetry data points. We're moving into an infinite day where the day never ends. And so in this sort of cognitive overwhelm environment, how do we create pathways and if you will, you know, nourishing and nurturing, um, digital physical well being environments that will help people manage the tremendous cognitive loads and stress loads that are being experienced today and that will most likely increase.

Speaker D: Yeah, I think that's a fantastic point because I don't think as ah, you say we've never been kind of exposed to more information ever in the past before and it takes that kind of mental toll. And I suppose leading on from that in terms of leadership, what is it that leaders need to do? How does leadership need to evolve to kind of manage these changing organizations? What are you telling the executives that you work with?

Speaker E: So we're seeing a shift, um, you know leadership historically, leadership historically Matt, uh, is very command and control. Right. And very operationally focused and technically focused. And today um, the next generation of leaders need to become the architects of augmentation. They need to recognize how human cognition can be partnered effectively with AI. They need to move beyond operational performance management to um, learning orchestration and a leadership style that may need to be based more upon qualitative outcomes. Um, I would say leaders today again need a great deal of comfort with complexity and moving from command and control decision authority to more decision design. And you know, for instance looking at how well are my teams and my external partners all collaborating together, um, moving from, and we're seeing this across multiple organizations, very um, structured scenario planning to adaptive experimentation. So you know, let's try something for two weeks, three weeks, see how it works. If it doesn't work, let's be willing to change and from A leadership perspective, you know, as a leader, as leaders always wanted to be, to be sort of in charge, be all knowing. And I think, you know, if I look at Satya and Nadella at Microsoft and some of the more servant leader, uh, CEO, you know, profiles, leaders are going to have to have a good dose of humility, a willingness to learn and nurture, a uh, willingness to sort of rethink their organizational models and their strategies on a continuous basis. And they'll also. I wrote an article recently on digital twins and the ability for leaders to have perhaps digital twins of themselves that will give them answers of counsel. So Matt, like if I, if I don't know something and I have a digital twin who's potentially wiser and smarter than I am in my council and I'm quite serious, you know, it's like a council of elders, can I go to my digital twin and gain counsel and guidance to manage through complex decisioning?

Speaker D: Yeah, I love the idea that it's actually the version of yourself that you're going to. Because obviously, yeah, I mean that makes perfect sense because it kind of sets the whole frame of how you understanding how you think and all that sort of stuff. This sort of digital powered version of you.

Speaker E: Yeah, exactly. A better, smarter, wiser version of me. That is also, I think a uh, big word that I use a lot these days, Matt is symbiotic and symbiosis. So even with that digital twin version of me or you or anyone, can that digital twin version be symbiotic and continuously um, be up, uplifted if you will, and improved upon? And there is a potential potentially for those digital twin um, versions of ourselves to become quite powerful because they can access so much more than our human minds can access at any given time. And they can also uplift in terms of their refreshment cycles, you know, potentially much faster than the human brain can uplift and refresh itself or ourselves?

Speaker D: I just want to put something else in here because I think you kind of mentioned this a few times in the conversation. What was the impact on the workplace itself? I mean, how does the workplace evolve, if there indeed is a workplace?

Speaker E: Well, it's a great, great question. And I've been involved in global workplace transformation for over 25 years. I was an early pioneer, um, in hybrid work with companies such as Accenture and Citibank and AT&T and IBM. And I think as we look from 2025 to 2030, 2035, there, there will need to be space, physical space and physical environments for people. I'LL uh, put it in that context, the question will be how that physical space and workplace envelope will be enabled, utilized and accessed. And for instance, you know, the physical spaces of tomorrow may not be for work. They may be for nurturing and for wisdom and for contemplative and socialization activities. And all the work will be done by the machines potentially. And so the physical constructs then become much more humanistic, much more focused on wellness, well, being, nurturing, um, socialized environments. I mean, what if we thought about going to the office to become emotionally, psychologically and spiritually refreshed?

Speaker D: Wow, that would be a change I

Speaker E: that concept forward about 15 years ago and people thought I was absolutely crazy for making such a statement. But as I look today, 15 years ago and now, where we are in 10 years, looking forward, it's not so far out if we think about the current exponential rates of change and that our physical environments and our need for human connection, our need for human socialization, our needs for human, um, you know, resilience, if you will, and human uplift. I mean, those um, experiences can occur and I do believe they can be enabled in the digital constructs. And I feel I often have, you know, I mean, Matt, I've never met you in person. I feel I have a connection with you, you know, over this call today. Right. However, as we look at, you know, the future of human, um, resiliency and how can the physical, um, constructs enable better versions of our human selves? And I think that's yet to be defined. And I think the more progressed organizations will probably move in that direction as again, the machines take on, you know, we could have 80, 90% of the work being performed by machines. So what's remaining for humans is really judgment, discernment, human nurturing, collective social consciousness and connection. And it just creates a very different, you know, networked approach around how we look at the physical digital domains.

Speaker D: Absolutely. And we're so talking about 2030 here, which kind of sounds like a long way away, but it really isn't because, ah, it's just a few sort of short years. And um, I'm really interested in what you think companies should be doing right now, especially around things like talent acquisition and uh, development to kind of really sort of push their companies forward towards this new feature. I mean, what is it that people should be doing? What are they currently missing?

Speaker E: Yeah, I think, you know, certainly. And you're so right. I mean we're in 2025, soon to be 2026, and 2030 is really four years away. And so as we look at 2030 readiness for a number of our again more progressive advanced clients, um, and as we look at talent, um, the focus upon skills based, outcome based organizational models, cognitive um, adaptation capabilities and cognitive um, adaptation development in terms of how organizations look at their talent and how people think and how they behave, how to focus upon training and human technology expertise that will be pretty um, much front and center for everyone from the CEO on down, um, the ability to have AI discernment and ethical decision making from a talent perspective, the ability for leaders, managers to orchestrate um, cross complex networks, human and AI networks. And then I think there's a stronger focus on creativity and innovation actually. Whereas here again as we move towards a more um, machine oriented uh, work platform if you will, then as humans we need to really focus on our creative endeavors and our innovation capacities. And so for 2030, whether you're in digital design or creative design or innovation and beyond traditional R and D, where everyone now has the toolkits available to them to become creators and innovators. And then the other layer to this Matt, is we could see, and I'll use again the liquid workforce and the fractional workforce really expand and portfolio careers expand. So for instance, I uh, mean I may have an organization today that's 100,000 full time equivalent employees. That organization in 2030 may only be 20,000 full time equivalent employees. It may be double the revenue and the remainder of that workforce will be fractional liquid and you know, portfolio workers that will be orchestrated through AI enabled liquid workforce management systems. And so, um, I was with the world economic forum two weeks ago in San Francisco and one of the BC, um, discussions, one of the senior BC uh leaders there shared that he has over 50 companies that he's incubating right now that are AI enabled companies. And none of them will be greater than 20 people most likely. And they will all scale, you know, revenue based upon 20, maybe 40, 50 people in terms of human, you know, person headcount. But the scaling will be done through AI enablement over time and revenue generation and value creation will be enabled by um, AI. And so these are very, I mean, you know, the other challenge that I have, I think we all have, I mean 20, 30 is four years away. But what happens in the next four years will be a greater accelerated change than what's happened potentially in the last 20 years or 30 years. And so it's so difficult, you know, even for me and I tend to look out a lot, but to imagine, you know, some of these very Dramatic accelerated changes happening at scale and then you know, navigating, you know, all of that change in hopefully a cogent and you know, constructive manner.

Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. And you touched on this a little bit already. But I think just as a sort of a final question to you, what would your advice be to everyone listening as individuals? Like, because I know that this um, you, uh, know some people find this terrifying. Some people, uh, you know, are kind of not quite sure what their path forward is. How can people make sure that they're sort of personally ready for this kind of emerging world of work?

Speaker E: Yeah, such a great question. And again, I'll focus on six qualities that I would advise and they're all under the umbrella mat of human and personal resilience and human and personal readiness. So I think everyone will need to develop um, an AI adaptive mindset and an AI symbiotic augmentation mindset, number one. Number two, we need to exercise and enhance our cognitive capabilities to manage complexity and to be comfortable with complexity. Um, item three would be we need to enhance our human advantage and our, in our human identity. And to be willing to reimagine that human advantage and identity on an ongoing basis. We need to build um, personal learning systems and have continuous learning. I mean these days, Matt, I feel I'm learning probably 30 to 40% of every day. And so continuous learning is key. Fifth would be social relationships and social connections. So I need to know of smart folks like Matt in the world that I need to connect with on a regular basis both for learning and human nurturing and um, if you will, human connectivity. And then I guess, you know, finally would be to, to be willing to embrace complexity and to take a leadership role and in that leadership role, you know, personal resilience, to be able to help others along the journey. I think the issues of loneliness and anxiety today and you know, um, anxiety, loneliness, sadness and depression are at all time highs. I think as leaders we'll need to have a much stronger um, human nurturing capacity to help ourselves. I mean I meditate every day for 30 minutes. That's certainly helpful. I think all the physical, emotional, um, well being interventions that we can all muster together and then reinforce with one another. Matt will really be um, key to navigating this brave new world of work and brave new world of life that we'll be experiencing.

Speaker D: Peter, thank you very much for talking to me.

Speaker E: My pleasure. So great being with you.

Speaker A: My thanks to Peter. You can follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can search all the past episodes@, uh, recruitingfuture.com on that site. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Recruiting Future Feast, and get the inside track on everything that's coming up on the show. Thanks very much for listening. I'll be back next time, and I hope you'll join me.

Speaker E: This is my show.