How to Navigate Career Changes: Stephen Fraser

Speaker A: This episode is released in memory of Shannon Knapp, our host and dear friend. Hotelier Huddle was Shannon's homage to the hotel industry and the people within it who meant the world to, uh, her rest in peace. Shannon. In today's episode of the Hotelier Huddle, I spoke with one of my all time favorite hotel industry people, Steven Fraser. Well, not that I have favorites, I mean that would be unprofessional. But if I did, this guy would be a favorite of mine. Amazing experience and everything. I had a great chat with him about career pivots and transferable skills and he shares some top tips about things. People maybe just starting out in the industry can benefit from his learning and not take 20 years to learn it. I, uh, had a great chat with Steven. I think you'll like it as much as I did. Stephen Fraser, nice to see you. One of my all time favorite people in this world. Thank you very much for doing this. I really appreciate it. It's nice to see you.

Speaker B: And you as well. Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: I realized when I logged on just now it's been a long time since I've seen you like in real life, in person. Like I talk to you and we email all the time, but I haven't seen your handsome face in the longest time. It's nice to see you. And you got new glasses. They're nice.

Speaker B: I know, I'm just trying to be hip now. Uh, I'm getting old, but I gotta be hip.

Speaker A: Join the cool kids. I know, I know. You got to be hip before you join the hip replacement crowd.

Speaker B: Yeah, I don't want to go that far. Not too many hips.

Speaker A: Uh, right. So thank you so much for doing this and for joining the Huddle today. Now I always like to just go through just briefly, your career experiences so far, uh, not because you don't remember, but, uh, just so that my listeners are exactly clear on just how wildly qualified you are to be in the Hotelier Huddle. So if I may, Stephen Fraser, you tell me if I've got this right. You earned your rooms division diploma in hospitality from the Hotel school Australia, is that right?

Speaker B: Correct. At the Intercontinental a few years ago now. But it was really cool, actually. I had two weeks on, um, studying. Two weeks doing cleaning rooms or what. It was really a really fantastic course. It, uh, was 18 months at that stage. That's, it's all changed now. That's where I started.

Speaker A: So they actually, I love the, uh, uni programs and hotel school programs that actually have the students out doing jobs Amongst it in the trenches in hotels rather than just purely academic for the first two years. Because it just makes such a big difference, right?

Speaker B: 100%. It makes. It just sort of solidifies a lot of the learning. And it's practical. And I. It's a practical industry. Yes. You can study all the stuff, but you don't get taught how to deal with that guest at midnight when you're overbooked and all that sort of stuff. So.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yes, all of those, uh, immersive learning.

Speaker B: Correct. Exactly.

Speaker A: Okay. And then you were reservations and revenue manager and Marriott Rewards Loyalty program center manager, uh, for Sydney Harbor Marriott and Courtyard by Marriott north ride for 14 years.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And we'll get into that in just a minute. Uh, do you miss Marcia? Oh, bless her.

Speaker B: Loved it. Loved it.

Speaker A: The, um, sorry, Marriott Automated Reservations system for hotel availability. Availability for those of you playing acronym bingo at home. Um, and hotel industry acronym bingo, by the way, I think they finally put Marcia out to pasture because they've got a new Amadeus Global crs.

Speaker B: It's been upgraded. She's had some enhancements.

Speaker A: Yes. I think maybe they still use it for a couple of GDS connections. Hey, maybe if someone watching this wants to educate us and tell us in the comments if Marsh is still alive, if Marsh is still kicking, give us an update. Uh, anyway, then after your 14 years at Marriott. Wow. You were regional implementation consultant at Micros, doing PMS installs, as I recall. We might, uh, get into that just a second. Then back to academia, sort of. You were learning facilitator hospitality management at Torrens University concurrently, while doing all these other jobs for 13 years. Are you still teaching these days or have you stopped teaching for now?

Speaker B: Not. Not. Yeah, not. I, uh, did it for about 10 or 13 years. Um, that started with Billy Blue, uh, hotel school all those years ago, and now it's part of Torrens Uni. Um, yeah. So my sort of side hustle was to teach, uh, at the, at the college. That was fantastic. Love that. Love the teaching.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: A lot of really rewarding. A lot of fun.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's. It's always a tremendous benefit when the students have facilitators who have done the jobs. Um, so it's not, again, just purely academic, but they're speaking from experience. So amazing. Then you were central reservation Services manager at, uh, what was Mirvac Hotels, and then became a core Australia and New Zealand for nine and a half years. It probably felt like nine and a half. And the rest. Then you were director of reservation services for Star Entertainment Group. For a year and a half. Then you took a very fascinating sort of sideways turn and still in the industry. And you were head of service delivery for GDS and the director of shared services for Siteminder for four years. Um, global distribution systems, again GDS for those playing hotel acronym bingo. Then you were senior lead global support for Shopify for two and a half years. Fascinating. And now you are head of reservation services for EVT Connect Hospitality for the last two years. Did I miss anything?

Speaker B: I think you've got it all. Yeah, yeah, it's um, done quite a bit actually.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: I have done a few things so far. Yeah, yeah, it's been awesome. It's been awesome, Ryan. And you're right, I've sort of done a few different things. Mainly hotels. I sort of got pulled back in to the dark side.

Speaker A: So that's what happens.

Speaker B: Sucked back in, you leave, out you go. No, no, I missed that hotel thing. So, um, yeah, back into it. Love, love the reservations piece.

Speaker A: So Steve, in your 14 years at Marriott, I know for sure, um, gave you a pretty deep operational roots before you sort of pivoted into tech briefly at Micros and then later on at Siteminder. So still in hotel world, but on the tech side, uh, of hotels and also contact centers. So for someone maybe in the industry who's currently grinding away and maybe their third year as a reservations coordinator or a switch bitch as we used to call them, uh, what's the honest conversation about when to stay in that job and press on versus when maybe to master your craft versus when to just step into something else that just really terrifies you?

Speaker B: To be honest, I'd loved being a switch bitch at Intercon in Sydney. Was Merit Hyde Park. Um, it's actually really good.

Speaker A: Sorry to interrupt, but do I remember it right that you love that job in part because isn't that where you met your wife? Yeah, 25 years.

Speaker B: Yeah, probably a little bit of that too. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, that's probably why you stayed in that job a while because.

Speaker B: Well, that's exactly why I stayed there for the long time. I got very comfortable there. So it was, it was great going to work every day. M. But no, I mean, it's a good question because I think I obviously stayed at a lot of. On some places for quite a length of time.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: And which is probably a bit unusual in the industry and industry outside of the industry as well, I think. Um, my first gig with Marriott, um, was with Marriott after hotel school, as you said. Um, they're about 10 years in the Reservations team and had a few other roles, but I really enjoyed the team. I really enjoyed the product. I enjoyed the people that I work with. Um, and I think that's important. You gotta love what you do.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And yes, I probably stayed there a bit longer and probably could have busted out and done some other things, but I could have traveled the world and done other things, and I did have some experience doing that. Like, I got.

Speaker A: Yeah, you did. I mean, you had quite a bit of travel. You went to the U.S. i think, and to India.

Speaker B: Yeah, I was in Hawaii. And, uh, um, the Marriott in Maui there, the Ritz Carlton. Actually, I was doing some revenue work there.

Speaker A: So very fancy.

Speaker B: It was very nice. But. And it was. There was lots of opportunities, I think. But, um. So I think, to answer your question, like, I was happy I found my space. I, um, did probably get comfortable, but I enjoyed what I was doing. I think you normally know when you're ready for a move, um, and you sort of. I suppose it's when you get to that point where you're going, I just, I can't do this anymore. Uh, you know, that Monday mornings or Sunday night sort of thing. Um, but I think, yeah, if you love it, you will learn a lot about what you do.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: And some people just are happy to do that job. And if you enjoy it, great. And it ticks all the boxes.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Right. Because I think in our industry, we need an element of the worker bees, um, that are happy to press on and master their craft in the same or similar role for a long time, because it gives us some stability in certain parts of the industry. Right. So we need those worker bees, and there's a high value on that. But then other people who may be. Get bored or need to sharpen their skills or again, do something that terrifies them. We need that, too.

Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. And look, and I think part of the challenge is we get comfortable and to m. Do something different, um, is terrifying. Um, I mean, I remember my first going and doing my first training session at the hotel school where I had, I don't know, 50 or 60 students in this auditorium. And I've been preparing for weeks, and I was absolutely terrified.

Speaker A: Shaking in your boots?

Speaker B: Yeah, they're shaking my boots. Indeed. But it was such a rush. Did it. Loved it. But it's like it's in. You did it. You learn, as you learn all this cool new stuff. And I think you've got the support of your team members. Like, you know, you were always very supportive of me, and anything that I Did I mean, you actually the one that said, yeah, yeah, go and do the training. I think it'd be a great thing. So I had that support. As scary as it was, you just gotta do it, give it a crack and you won't regret it. And if it's not the right thing to do, that's okay. Now you know. Right.

Speaker A: So, uh, now you know.

Speaker B: The role I had at Micros as a installer, I really went there because I wanted to do training and stuff and it was very technical and that I learned very quickly that wasn't my thing. And that's okay.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then the role came up with Mirvac to build the reservation center. So that was really important. But I think if you've got the right work ethic and you work hard, you do go over and above, like, you really show a passion for it, use your initiative. Um, opportunities will certainly come your way. People notice. And we all notice people that do that.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And. Oh, okay, okay. I'll keep an eye on you and you know what happens down the track. So you, you've got your people that you sort of looking out for. But I think if you're someone who's unsure about what to do or you're not sure what to do next, I mean, have an honest conversation with your lead and be a manager and just sort of say, look, this is what I want to do. How am I going? You know, what am I missing? Or what do I, what am I got? What do I need to get to do to get there? And then I'm. Surely they'll hopefully work with you on a, um, development plan or what have you, and then you can get where you want to go. But yeah, I think just have a conversation with your lead is pretty keen.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's such an important point because I think a lot of people kind of fall into one of two extremes. Like there's the camp of extremes where people are, you know, too nervous or, um, aren't surrounded by the right kind of leadership that are open to people being very ambitious and saying, how, how can I do better? How am I going? Give me some feedback. I want to, you know, here's my career path. Give me some tips. And then there's the other extreme of, uh, you know, the camp of people that are maybe a little bit too ambitious and they want to be a general manager after they've been a receptionist for five minutes. So there's like those two extremes and I think there's kind of a sweet spot in the middle of people that can be open to feedback and demand more of their leaders and supervisors. And also recognize that I do need to master this craft and learn as much as I can for a while before I try and take over the world.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I think we've all had those different sort of personalities within our business and both challenging in their own different way. But I think um, it's good to have both. If we're all the same, you know, it wouldn't be as exciting, would it? So.

Speaker A: No. And so as I recall your somewhat temporary, well, I mean it was a year and a bit. But compared to your duration that you were in other roles, your somewhat temporary role at MyCars where you know, you sort of very much started to build your tech skills on the PMS side and implementation, actually as I recall, that was an instance where someone almost literally pulled you out of that role and onto something else. And I remember that because maybe that was me, but uh, and I didn't poach you because that would be inappropriate. It was just that I made you aware of a role that might be available that I thought, you know, might be more challenging to you. Anyway, I digress. So considering you've said on sort of both sides of the implementation desk, as a property manager receiving new systems and also as a consultant rolling them out, is there a, uh, I don't know, any awkward moments that you can share where maybe a tech rollout went sideways and you know, if something got really messy on either side of that, um, I don't know. Did it teach you something about a gap between what a hotel's head office thinks hotels need versus what actually helps a hotel night auditor at 2 in the morning?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah, I mean for. I've been through a few system rollouts and I think we've been through a couple with the hotels days with new systems and process and stuff. Yeah, look, thankfully the majority have actually been pretty positive. Right. And one that, probably the one that stands out that didn't go well as, as well was um, when I was at the start we did a lot of transformational work there around um, reservation services and STAR was rolling out a new membership program or an update to their membership program. And um, there was probably some challenges technically system wise and sort of some conflicting goals and really expectations between different departments and so forth. So the uh, casino.

Speaker A: Oh, it's really complicated in the gaming space when you have gaming regulation, hotels, guests loyalty profiles. It's super complicated environment, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And it was a really interesting environment um, because you've Got the casino with the gaming piece saying, okay, well the hotel is there to accommodate our guests. So they come and gamble.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And then the hotel was like, we've got to act like a hotel and we've got to yield and revenue, manage availability and you know, do all this stuff.

Speaker A: Not so easy.

Speaker B: Very, very challenging. So that was always a big challenge in that space. But I think there was a couple of disconnects and some system glitches with this one. And um, I think there was feedback given and there was some pre testing done. But I think a lot more of that should have been done in that instance to iron out because really you've got to speak to the people that are in the front line handling those calls, handling those emails to get, okay, I need you to test this to death, right, and let me know what works, what doesn't. So that put a lot of pressure because not a lot of that was ironed out. We put a lot of pressure on the team. Customer experience sort of was impacted as a result of that. So I think the learning from that was really test, test, test and you know, and speak to the people that are in the front line. I think that was sort of key. Um, that was probably the, that must

Speaker A: really have informed the next few projects that you had with either with Star or you know, with, you know, your next few major projects. That must, you know, that uh, you know, learning and that experience at a cellular level that, that really would have informed how you've led projects after that, huh?

Speaker B: Oh, uh, definitely, definitely. I mean we've had some great ones along the way. I think probably one of the most notable save my life projects was, I know, if you remember, I'm sure you remember was when we put siteminder into um, Mirvac hotels and we went from manually entering, you know, what if bookings and Expedia bookings, you know, were there till 11 o' clock at night going crazy and, and the, the God of it, Andrew Smith, um, and the rest of the team sort of, um, implemented, um, and overnight that was just like a wow, wow moment. And it was done beautifully. There was a lot of interaction, a lot of engagement and that was a big, a big win I think. Um, another one we had is in the Rez Center. We were looking after 45 hotels, as you know, um, with Merck Hotels and we were answering the calls. We're in North Sydney and we were answering the calls as if we were at the hotel.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And so the team needed a lot of information about the hotel. From what was the cost of parking? How much was breakfast?

Speaker A: How high was the weather? What's it going to feel like when I get there?

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And we sort of noticed that, oh, the team had that information, but it was on paper and it was all a bit cumbersome. So we started a project around centralizing that information. We used it sort of a Google technology and put it all into a, uh, site that the team could use. But to make sure that worked, we asked a lot of questions, we did a lot of testing with some team members and they gave their feedback. So I think really the key of all this is ask the people that are going to be the end users before you roll anything out.

Speaker A: Yes. And also, you know, and you're reminding me how transformative that was. Um, and also it just really speaks to what might seem really obvious and common sense. But I've noticed, and I'm sure you have too, it's not always common practice to test the fuck out of everything right down to the pointy end and test it again and again and again before you go live with real live customers. So that you're not, you, uh, know, creating a really bad experience for your staff, having to deliver bad service or doing, you know, relentless manual tasks over and over, but also improving the experience of guests who are, you, uh, know, having that, you know, reservation services experience, for instance, because that's often the first touch point that a guest has with a hotel or with a brand.

Speaker B: Right, Correct. Exactly right. Yeah. That's the. How that sort of influences when they arrive and how they're going to be looking forward to their stay. Um, no pressure, but that was all on the Res team. You're there selling it and saying how wonderful this product is and what a wonderful time that they're going to have. And so they're all excited to be there. So that's just super key to, um, the Res experience.

Speaker A: Yeah. So super long question alert and I'll try and make my question as efficient as possible. Teaching hospitality management for 13 years, as you did while simultaneously working across contact centers, it means you've kind of observed students enter the industry. That's also changed dramatically over the years. And our industry changes dramatically, feels like every five minutes. So I wonder from your lens, what's a piece of maybe conventional wisdom that you used to teach that now you tell your students to completely ignore? Or perhaps what's a skill that you, uh, you know, that should today's hotel school professionals or hospitality professionals be developing that maybe wasn't even on their radar 10 years ago that you weren't even teaching in hotel school a decade ago.

Speaker B: It's a really good question because I think the fundamentals of what we do in hotel hotels has stayed the same. And I think, and I think that will remain the same in the future. Like we're here to create experiences for guests.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, obviously to make money as well. But I think what we do, having a genuine care and interest in our guests, our team members, that hasn't changed and that shouldn't change moving forward.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So we're there to provide accommodation or restaurants and spas and all of that. But we want people to have a good time and enjoy their stay. So that will not change. I think what's changing is the technology piece, um, the, that sort of sits in the background which helps us support and make that magic happen. I love that. And it could be, I mean all the talk about AI and bots, engaging customers, um, looking at automating processes behind the scenes. As you know, in hotels there's a lot of admin. Heavy, repetitive friction. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's trying to leverage technology to make that easier, uh, more efficient. So our team members, that the humans can actually have engagement. Um, but it's also, some guests don't want that engagement. They want to be able to come into a hotel, bypass the front desk, get into the room if they want.

Speaker A: Bypass the humans all together if they want. Yeah.

Speaker B: And that's okay. You know, I think we're getting used to airlines, you know, the self check in piece. And now there's no people. So I don't know if hotels will go that way. I mean there are some obviously that do that with kiosks and, and there's a market, there's a market for that. So I think the skill, um, is sort of being a bit tech savvy.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Um, and good at understanding how tech can transfer you transform your business. I'm not tech savvy, um, but I know people that are. Uh, so it's sort of surrounding you of being in touch with those sort of people where um, they know what sort of cool stuff can be done and help you implement that. Um, I was at a conference only just this week, um, and those demonstrations around sort of AI and automation and it was amazing. Like it was really, really cool. Like, wow, blowing my mind sort of stuff. But it's going to really help us, I think, deliver on that, you know, all the things we want, that genuine customer experience. Um, and people are very tech, they love the Tech now and, but there will always be a need for people in our industry.

Speaker A: I think so too. And you know, I think what I've observed about, you know, you mentioned about how airlines now have kiosks and you know, the last few times I've checked in for a Qantas flight, to your point, there was no humans around and you just have to figure it out for yourself and that's fine. But the main difference between aviation and our sector of the travel industry is that, I mean, especially here in Australia, there's effectively two choices, right? Whereas in hotels, there's a whole lot more choice and there's a whole lot more competition. So if I'm as a traveler, as a guest, if I'm choosing an airline today, really, I've got two to choose from. When I'm choosing a hotel, I have 200 to choose from. And so the difference there is that if I'm a person who wants to have a no tech experience and I want it to be all about the humans, then I choose a brand that's going to provide that experience for me. If I want to be the kind of corporate traveler that doesn't want to engage with any people, I just want to check in on a kiosk and use a key on my phone and not talk to any people, then I choose a brand that provides that experience for me. Right, exactly. And you know, the hotels, and I mean, I have a few clients that are doing this really well, is that they cater for all of those segments. And that's the magic. Even in voice reservation services like you're providing now at EVT and even at Marriott, you know, there's, you know, there's something to be said for providing the kind of experience that suits all the segments. So, you know, I don't know if you're able to do that at EVT now, but if you have customers that want to make a booking on a bot by email, talk to a human, call somebody, God help us. Send effects, send an email. However guests want to interact and transact with us, shame on us if we don't provide that type of service and maybe steer them, um, toward booking online, because that's the cheapest way we transact and that's the most seamless way. But I just feel like shame on us if we don't provide, however, the type of service that each segment and each type of traveler wants to transact with us.

Speaker B: Do you think 100? Yeah, no, absolutely. And, and there's not probably one brand that does all that, but no, you're right, you're right. I think you've got to, if we can give people options or we have to, are going to have to, that's where the sort of, the competitive landscape is.

Speaker A: Competition.

Speaker B: We're still going to need the people to provide that genuine customer experience. And I think that will never change. But yeah, you're right. All this tech that's coming, it's fascinating and EVT is I think, well advanced in that, in that way, in that respect. Um, so it's a really. Yeah, it's going to be really exciting to see how that sort of transforms what we do and then a lot of it probably in the back end, um, to make that front end experience much better.

Speaker A: So on the service culture side, uh, you know, when I think about your experience starting out in a luxury harbor view at the Marriott to the maybe fast paced chaos of a, uh, Shopify support center, you've experienced vastly different service cultures. Right. So I wonder what has maybe surprised you about leaving traditional hospitality and then maybe what did you bring back once you were sucked back in where you belong, back to hotels? What did you bring back that maybe you couldn't have valued without that brief detour into tech at Siteminer and Shopify?

Speaker B: Um, well, as we know, hotels are sort of known for their customer experience. Um, I think throughout the different industries that I have worked in, even though the service culture might be different, I think in the end we're all there to provide a service and the goal is to make the customer happy and return. So I think that's sort of a commonality across all sorts, all industries that I've worked in. And certainly Shopify was probably the most different experience that I had. They were very fanatical about sort of the customer experience and that the tech, they invested a huge amount in tech and AI and all of that. So they do a lot of tech for the customer and it helps the teams. But ultimately we're still trying to do the same thing. We're providing a service to a customer to help them either have an experience or in Shopify's situation, help them earn more money as their business and grow their business business. So it was different. Same, same, but different, if that makes sense. So, um, yeah, I think the, the Shopify customer wants the same thing as a Marriott or a Kimpton customer. They want to be recognized, they want to be heard.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Genuinely cares in either them or why they're coming or what they're selling. Yeah. What I mean, I found Shopify, um, fabulous. Um, because you're talking to people who are building a business and it was cool to learn about their product and how they got there and giving advice on, oh, you could do XYZ to improve your business. And it had a direct impact on their, I suppose, the money that it made. So that was really cool.

Speaker A: Yeah. So the customers, like the business owners that are using Shopify to deliver their product to the end customer who maybe purchased something that's being shipped to them. Right.

Speaker B: Leveraging technology again to make that experience seamless and easy and help them get to their goals. No different to hotels, we're using technology and I think ultimately, ah, as I said, same thing. Um, I'm sort of keen with my role here at ev2 is to explore how we can continue to leverage that technology. And as I said, it's really exciting what's coming. Um, I'm really looking forward to it. But yeah, across all sort of even Siteminder, we're talking to hoteliers, uh, it was really cool because I was on the other side um, and talking to hoteliers about how we could help them improve their business. So um, that was really cool as well. So it was sort of like going from hotels to Siteminder was sort of similar and there was a similarity around Shopify. Even though it's retail technology is really the piece that I'd sort of probably valued a lot. Learned a lot more from working SiteMind, a very tech generated orientated company as well. A lot of changes there. That was fabulous as well. So all the way through it's been sort of tech and service.

Speaker A: You know, something that I think you and I both have in common is that sort of joy and satisfaction we get, whether we're on the hotel side or even on the tech side in providing hoteliers and owners with ways to be more profitable. And I know like people get a little bit nervous and queasy about mentioning profit as though profit and making money is like, uh, profit is a dirty word. And it's not like unless you're working for a not for profit or a charity, which I have never have. But you know, profit is not a dirty word. And all of this tech and improving the guest experiences, yes, it is all about, about providing better experiences for people to have jobs that they enjoy and earn a living. And at the same time, whether it's tech or reservation services or the different ways you and I have earned a living for the last couple of decades, it's about helping hotels and owners make more profit. And I don't think we should be Shy about that.

Speaker B: Uh, we're all there for that reason and all of this. Yeah, I know, you're absolutely right. Talking about customer experience and all of that and all tech and everything, but,

Speaker A: yeah, ultimately that's all charming. Unless they're losing money.

Speaker B: Yeah, we've got it. I mean, it's there to guess the experience, but it's there to also make more money. Like, you know, offering like your airlines. You know, how many times have you gone on a flight and you get a, an email or a text saying, hey, you can upgrade for X amount. That's what we're there for, is to, yes, make them feel better, but also make more money.

Speaker A: Steven, you've been a reservations agent, a manager, a consultant, a director, a lecturer, and now you're head of reservation services for a pretty big organization looking after lots and lots and lots of hotels. So for the listeners of Hotelier Huddle, who might be feeling kind of burnt out in their current role and unsure of whether to stick with hospitality or maybe leave entirely, because, let's face it, we have a lot of transferable skills in all different levels of hotel jobs, um, what in your journey so far has helped you navigate your own pivots? And you started to touch on this before, but I'm curious if you might have some advice for how people might recognize the difference between needing a new challenge versus needing a whole new industry.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's an excellent question. Um, because a lot of what's happened with me, I mean, as you know, I've changed a few, few times. Um, so the movement and each of

Speaker A: those has served your next role Very well, 100%.

Speaker B: Both the probably your Siteminder and Shopify opportunities came a bit out of the blue. At that stage. I was ready for, uh, in both instances, I felt ready for the next change. I felt that I'd done all I could do in the roles that I was in. Like at the start, we did the big transformation piece there and I thought, okay, well, I've done in my mind, these are the things that I wanted to achieve and we were able to achieve that. And so I was enjoying what I was doing, but, uh, I was sort of keeping an eye out to see what else was out there. And then obviously the Siteminder gig, um, popped up and that was fantastic. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. And then, same thing with Siteminder. I was there for a number of years and I thought, okay, I've achieved what I wanted to do. Yes, I still enjoyed the role, loved the people. But then the Shopify piece came up and that came up through. And a lot of these roles, as we all know, come up through contacts and who you know. And Sitemind, it was no different. I think you sort of said, hey, there's a role here at Sitemind you might be interested in. So, yes. Um, then, you know, I was, I went over there and Shopify was through another, you know, ex manager that I'd worked with as well. So opportunities sort of came my way and I think that's what happens if as you move through and you've got your contacts and your network of people, um, uh, I don't know, with changing roles, you've done certain things and then, okay, well, I'm ready, you know, when you're ready to go. I mean, I think the big telltale sign is if you're waking up on a, whatever Sunday, Monday morning and dreading going to work, that's probably an indicator you need a new job as well.

Speaker A: Yes, yes.

Speaker B: But for the whole, I think, um, like you said, the skills that we have are really transferable, um, across all industries. Um, and you've got to try different roles to see if they work or not. Like I was talking about the, the, um, um. Was it Fidelio Micros? Fidelio um, micros role?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: That wasn't what I thought it was going to be and it wasn't for me. But I had to, I tried it and I. Okay, I've done that. I'm good. You know, I'll never wonder whether I should have done that. So I think you've got to try different things and, um, it will eventually lead you through to where you need to go. But I think having the right, having your network, um, and the support there definitely helps whether to change or not. And I think if you get an opportunity to change outside of the industry, give it a go. Why not? It can't hurt. Right. So, um, I was very thankful of the opportunities that sort of out of industry. Siteminder was sort of out of industry. Shopify was totally out of industry. But it was, yeah, I don't regret the move at all. And now back here with, uh, EVT Connect Hospitality. It's fantastic. So, um, yeah, loving it.

Speaker A: Yeah. You said, uh, something really important then about contacts and relationships and knowing people. And what I've noticed in 15 episodes of this Hotelier Hotel podcast so far is that the one through line for almost everyone I talk with that has been in the industry either for a year or 30 years or people that are retired, is that the best opportunities that they got? For promotion and even a sideways promotion or the next role has almost always been because someone knew them, someone trusted them, someone liked them, someone remembered work that they did two jobs ago. Uh, and this is something that I know about you and your career so far is that you have to be the guy that everyone wants in the room. The guy that doesn't panic when things go to shit. The guy who knows how to solve problems and works hard but actually really enjoys the work. And uh, if you're known as a person who works hard, doesn't panic, enjoys the job, but still has a lot to learn, people are going to seek you out. I mean I know that because I've sought you out at two or three different companies and gone, oh, I know someone who can do this. Bring up Steven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh, I've, I've just noticed that when you're the person that is recognized for working hard, being a solutions finder and just getting, getting on with it, um, I, I feel like that's the people that get the great jobs in this industry. Yep.

Speaker B: Oh absolutely. And, and that's, I think I was saying right at the beginning how you know, you know, you notice people that are uh, you know, putting in the initiative, uh, you know, working, being very positive. Um, yes. Solving problems and you know, just someone who's engaged, I think.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And you notice those people. So when you do, everyone moves around and they, you know, have their peeps they work with and they've, they enjoy working with and got that trust and that relationship. So it's a no brainer. You know, obviously you're going to try and bring them across to help support you because I think you've got to surround yourself with um, with good people that know more than you do.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: So I mean I certainly don't know everything but you know, like in a number of my roles and even here at evt, I've got some fantastic people that I work with who are super smart and um, that's the piece. You know, you surround yourself with good people and um, yeah. And keep those relationships and that network together. But yeah, people notice for sure.

Speaker A: Is there a specific skill perhaps or maybe even a habit that you developed along the way that maybe you wish you'd had from day one and I don't know, maybe something that someone listening to this conversation can develop it quickly without waiting 20 years?

Speaker B: I think, um, I think I've got a couple of those. But I think the key one that's always seen me through is to be, have a positive Outlook and a positive attitude and a sort of solutions driven, um, sort of mentality. Stuff goes wrong all the time, but it's, you know, there's all sorts of exciting things that have happened in my sort of career and it's how you react. And, um, okay, we can do that. Let's sort that out and, you know, we'll sort. Yeah, we'll work it out and we'll. Let's just get the customer looked after. It's just truly trying to find a positive outcome because there's always a way to do something that's probably key for me. Ask questions. So really sort of ask quick rather than just formulating an answer in your head. Actually listen to people, um, talk to people because people know other people should be talking more than you. So you're getting all the information you need. So sort of listen, listen to what people have to say and take that on board. And as I said before, surround yourself with good people is probably, um, the sort of the three, but the positive one, number one for me.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's such good advice. And I think, you know, the perfect balance there is still being positive and solutions focused. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't call it out when you see something that just ain't right. And if you notice something that's broken or isn't gonna work or down the road, this procedure for checking in a guest on this package with these inclusions is gonna fall apart at the front desk. Because I've been there and I've seen abc. So, uh, like, you can still call things out and improve, still do it in, in a positive, solutions, focused way. Right. Like we, we still can say when something's broke, but it's how you approach it. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Right. No one, no one wins if someone gets all cranky and, uh, throws their toys out of the cot. So I think, um, yeah, ball, work together, be positive, and, uh, I think you, you fix whatever needs to be fixed.

Speaker A: I love that. Okay, a final toast. Stephen Franklin, we close every episode of the hotelier Huddle, uh, with this final question, which is final toast. If you are raising a glass, which I'm raising my glass of double espresso French vanilla iced coffee today because it's a bit early from my revpartini. Uh, if you're raising a glass to celebrate hoteliers everywhere, what would your toast be?

Speaker B: My toast would be to all the, I think, the amazing people I've met along my hospitality journey. And there'd be many. And I've had some amazing mentors including yourself, um, along the way. And I really appreciate, like, the guidance and support all of those people that I've sort of met along the way. Yeah. So it's cheers to all the fabulous people, uh, that I've worked with.

Speaker A: Cheers to that. I love it. Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you. Are you sure that's not a martini?

Speaker A: No, it isn't. I promise you. It's a double espresso French vanilla iced coffee.

Speaker B: I promise that's a bit too fancy. Yeah,

Speaker A: thanks for that. And I appreciate your generous comment that I've been your mentor. But let's face it, I've learned a lot from you over the years than you've learned from me. But we'll just leave it at that. Thank you very much, Stephen Fraser, for joining the huddle today. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me. And, um, lovely to see you and lovely to chat. So thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you. You. Bye.