Growth Masterminds: mobile growth podcast · 2025-10-21 · 30 min
Growth loops represent a fundamental shift from traditional funnel-based growth strategies. While all products have a funnel, Hannah Parvez emphasizes that loops - infinite cycles of user engagement and acquisition - should drive growth strategy. Parvels, CEO of Aperture, contrasts the unidirectional funnel model with multiple loop types: referral loops (exemplified by Frinky's free-drink mechanism where both referrer and referee earned rewards), content loops where user-generated listings become discoverable landing pages (eBay, Depop), habit loops building user streaks (Duolingo, Apple Fitness), and community loops where increasing participation increases value (Reddit, Quora). She discusses incentivized vs. social-capital-based referrals, variable rewards that amplify user engagement, and how loops can stack within loops. The conversation emphasizes that loops aren't chosen - they emerge from product nature and market fit. Parvez shares her experience as an early adopter of multiple apps, demonstrating how deep product understanding informs growth strategy. This is essential listening for founders, product managers, and growth professionals deciding between acquisition-heavy funnel approaches versus sustainable loop-based models.
Hosted by Singular. The show scores 65.0/100 on substance across its analysed episodes. See the full show profile.
A funnel is unidirectional and requires continuous external input (money, users) at the top; each step gets smaller. A growth loop is cyclical (like an infinity symbol) where users generate growth internally - referrals create new users who refer others, content creates pages that draw more users, or habits keep users engaged and sharing.
Frinky built a system where users could redeem one free drink daily, and if they referred a friend, both got an extra free drink. Because users checked in at bars together and saw the reward, they naturally shared their referral code. This pushed their k-factor above 1, creating viral spread with minimal acquisition spending.
A content loop lets users create content (listings) that become discoverable landing pages. On eBay, someone selling stamps creates listings that appear in search results and can be shared; buyers who find these listings may sign up and become sellers themselves, creating new content and perpetuating the loop.
Variable rewards (like Free Trade's 'get between £20-£200 worth of stock') are psychologically more addictive than consistent rewards because users have multiple psychological triggers - the referral action, then the checking action to see what they got - making the loop more habit-forming.
Habit loops use streaks (consecutive daily completions) to build psychological obligation; users feel compelled to maintain their streak, not just use the app. This creates sustained engagement and often leads users to screenshot and share their streaks, creating a secondary content loop.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Funnels are linear. Growth loops are exponential. You need funnels to grow, but the power of growth loops is what will make your app engagement, give you high retention, and maybe even give you viral growth. In this episode of Growth Masterminds, host John Koetsier sits down with Hannah Parvaz, CEO of Aperture, to break down growth loops, the systems that power predictable, scalable, compounding growth. We cover referral loops, content loops, habit loops, community loops, incentive loops, and more. Plus: how to kickstart loops, what to do about the cold start problem, and whether you should design around a loop or let your product’s natural usage define it. Hannah shares stories from building viral referral systems (yes, free drinks were involved), explains how apps like Strava and Snapchat keep you hooked, and dives into why loops can be more powerful than funnels. Like, subscribe, and share!
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Most products are like the funnel, right?
Speaker B: Gold products have a funnel, but the funnel shouldn't be how you plan to grow.
Speaker A: Talk about a referral loop and how that works.
Speaker B: You could get one free drink per day at, uh, any of the partner bars. And you had this virtual currency. So what you had to do was you would earn that free drink.
Speaker A: Is that a creation loop? Is that a sharing loop? Is that an oath?
Speaker B: My dad used to collect stamps. He could Google this type of stamp, it would have a landing page on ebay.
Speaker A: Funnels suck. Loops rock. But why? Hello and welcome to Growth Masterminds, the podcast for growth marketers. My name is John Kitir. I'm going to tell you a secret. Whatever you do, don't tell today's expert, but she just might be my favorite guest. She runs a growth marketing agency, has won a lot of cool stuff, has worked for some of the best companies in mobile. Her name is Anna Parvez. She's the CEO of, uh, Aperture, and she's pretty freaking awesome. But don't let her know. Hello, Hannah. How are you doing?
Speaker B: Hi, John. That was really lovely. I'm doing very well, thank you. I'm doing good. It's, uh, a rainy September day here in London, but, um, feeling good. How about you?
Speaker A: That is kind of appropriate because, like, I feel like I went to sleep and I woke up and summer was gone and it's fall and. Yeah, what the hell?
Speaker B: Yesterday I put my coat on for the first time. I was like, wow, we're finally here in full.
Speaker A: I know, it's awful. It's horrible. I'm really sad about it. However, it's been a year since we chatted, which is kind of insane.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: What has happened in the last year for you? What has been m. Cool. What has been exciting?
Speaker B: Yeah. I actually was just watching back our video from last year. We're a little bit late this year for anybody who hasn't seen any of the previous episodes we've done. We did one last year and the year before and so it's become a bit of a annual ritual for us. But yeah, I mean, whenever I was watching the back of. Whenever I was watching the. The beginning of it, uh, just now and I don't know, you might want to cut together some of those snippets. But like, I was talking about how we were about to start running our series of events, Aperture sessions. It's been over a year of us running those now we've had almost a thousand people attend our events. Uh, we've done them in Vegas, New York, London, Istanbul, Berlin. Like many different countries, the team has been growing.
Speaker A: Not Vancouver. You haven't come to Vancouver.
Speaker B: We have to do something soon together. Um, so, yeah, the team has doubled in size and yeah, things are, things are good. We're working on some very cool projects. And then for me personally, just been enjoying like a slower summer, um, going into kind of event season now for the rest of the year. So, yeah, it'll be, it's going to have been a very good 2025, I think.
Speaker A: Okay, well, uh, 2026, ma'.
Speaker B: Am, but yeah, it's coming soon.
Speaker A: Coming soon, Exactly. Okay, so we're going to talk about loops and I gotta ask you a weird question. Why do you like horizontal leads?
Speaker B: I like, uh, the infinity symbol in, in reference to the loop. You know, the loops should be, should be infinite growth if we can execute them properly, obviously. I mean, we'll get into the thick of it soon, but yeah, we want to just think about how these loops can just keep on going and keep on growing.
Speaker A: Yeah, because you're talking about. I mean, there's a LinkedIn post that precipitated this. I'll share the link in the notes of the show. But you're talking about most products are like a funnel, right? Stuff. Stuff comes in at the top, it gets narrower and narrower. Something comes out at the bottom, but it's kind of unidirectional. Right. And it's really dependent on you continuing to shovel in stuff, I. E. Money, I. E. Users, players, customers, into the top. Why are most products a funnel? All.
Speaker B: I think all products have a funnel, but the funnel shouldn't be how you plan to grow. It's, it's. And I know some of the material that you'll have been reading and we've actually discussed some of this topic like two years ago, and it's like, interesting to see how some of these things have changed. But don't get me wrong, all products have a funnel like that, uh, is a way that you can grow and it's a way to do some analysis. But that definition, the AA ARR definition is amazing. But it's, it is, as you say, unidirectional. And our understanding of how companies grow has evolved also since then. Reforged. Do a lot of really great writing about this. I went through a reforge course nearly 10 years ago now, uh, which is a very long time ago. And, um, which is where I really learned a lot more about growth loops and how all of these loops can work. And really when we're thinking about those and what the difference between the loops and the funnel is, is your loop, like the, like the infinity symbol just keeps on going. Whenever, as you said, whenever we're thinking about funnel, it requires putting things in at the top and each step gets smaller and smaller and smaller. But when we're thinking about growth loops, which could be a community loop, it could be a social viral loop, it could be a referral loop, there are so many different types of loop, a content loop that we can think about. And these we'll get into it more. I'm just so excited about the topic. But, like, these are really there to help us kind of predictably and scalably grow.
Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. So we're going to talk about a bunch of different loops. Uh, maybe as many as ten. We'll see. Um, and then it'll be interesting for anybody who's watching, listening, what loops work for you, what loops don't work for you. Because it's going to be different. Right. Different loops are going to work for different people. Fitness app is going to be a little bit different than a retail app. Well, maybe a lot different. Right. So we're going to talk about all this stuff and we'll end off by talking about how do you kickstart the loop, which is the cold start problem, which, by the way, is what Hannah and I chat about the first time we ever talked. So.
Speaker B: Yep.
Speaker A: Yeah, I like loops, too. Let's chat about a few of them. You mentioned referral loops. Right. And that one, that, that's one that doesn't work on everybody. Right. Doesn't work on me, really, because I don't really want to push that, but there are people who are very comfortable with doing that. Talk about a referral loop and how that works.
Speaker B: One of the most successful referral loops that I, uh, worked on building into a company was, um, when I joined a company called Frinky, which is now called Dusk. Um, really how this product works for everyone's reference is that, uh, it was an app that got you free drinks at bars. Pretty appealing.
Speaker A: People who like to drink, certain senate people.
Speaker B: And you could get one free drink per day at, uh, any of the partner bars. And you had this virtual currency. So what you had to do was you would earn that free drink. So you would kind of share your preferences or you would complete kind of quizzes, or you would check in originally, you would, like, check in on Facebook and you'd get a free drink. One of the things that we built in, because you could stack them up, you could have your account could say, I've got five free drinks available. But you could still only redeem one profile. But we built in a system, uh, in my first even few weeks, I think, or a few months at the company where if I refer to you, we both got an extra free drink. So, you know, if we go to the bar together and you see me getting a free drink, you're probably going to want to go to a drink. Our average amount of people that we're going to bars together and this was 2018, it's nearly 10 years ago now, but was over two, you know, so it was, it was over two. Which means people who are going with other people. So whenever they see you, I see you, John, getting free as Russo Martini. I'm going to go, I'm going to want one as well. So you refer me, I download the app, we both get an extra free drink. And so very quickly this went very viral with people. And people also had a unique code so we could change them to people. Mine was Hannah, for example. I don't know if that code is still active anyway changed anyway since then. But it meant that then dramatic increase in referral. Our K factor was definitely above one, let's say. And people were just sharing and sharing and sharing. And because we knew that when someone was heart activated and I'll talk more about that later, but that they would continue inviting people or continue drinking in that group, it meant then that we could really focus instead of even on acquisition. Our main growth loop had sorted out itself. We focused heavily on retention.
Speaker A: Cool. That's such a London thing. I mean like London, uh, the culture in London. Right? You finish working. Okay, where are we going? And there's a bar hopping sequence that happens and everything in New York and other places like that as well. Now that's an easy one to give away, right? Everybody wants that. So that's perfect. That's awesome. That really works. And that was great for you guys. There's another loop that's one that you know would be more maybe up my alley and that's content loop. Is that a creation loop? Is that a sharing loop? Is that an oath? Talk about a content loop.
Speaker B: It's, it's, it can be executed in many ways, a content loop. So it can be about creation, it can be about sharing. But what we have to think about is how is this content reaching from one to many. And so some of the very good examples of this are Pinterest or ebay or Gumtree, uh, in the uk or Depop or Any of these sites where you go on and you create your account and then you start sharing things or creating content, and this then becomes its own landing page. So then it can show up in search results or you can share it with people. For example, if I have a depop account, which is a. Probably everyone knows, but it's a fashion company, so you resell old clothes. It's like vintage. Or it's a branch off ebay where you used to go on and sell your clothes. You can sell more than clothes, but that's how it started. And you would go on there and I, I might list. Okay, I've got 10 of these tops. So I might go on there and then list all of them to sell. Each one will have its own landing page and sharing, and I can share those, or people can search and discover them on ebay. For example, I might be looking for old stamps. My dad used to collect stamps. He might be looking for specific stamps and he could Google this type of stamp. It would have a landing page on ebay. He might go on there, create an account, purchase that. Then he's got his account, he might decide he wants to sell some of his stamps. So he starts to create landing pages for that or listings, which then become landing pages for those. And so the loop goes.
Speaker A: Cool, cool, cool. Awesome.
Speaker B: Have you sold anything on ebay?
Speaker A: I've sold stuff on Facebook, Marketplace. I'll date myself here. I've sold stuff on Craigslist.
Speaker B: Craigslist. Uh, Craigslist said a great example of a content loop.
Speaker A: Yes, exactly. I have sold stuff on ebay. I'm not sure. I don't sell a lot of stuff I like. You know, I kind of like. I'll give it away, mostly. That's nice. Yes, exactly. Let's talk about a habit loop. I mentioned fitness apps earlier. Maybe that's a good example of where you use a habit loop. Um, I use an Apple Watch, and so I have to close my rings every single day. Right. Other things like that. Talking about habit loops.
Speaker B: A habit loop. So this one is about when your product is there to build a habit. So think about Duolingo. Think about Spotify. Think about those things that you're. Sometimes there are apps that you're building streak in. Anytime you see a streak in an app, it's. It's creating a habit for you. There's an app at the moment, uh, called Quitter. I don't know if you've heard of it.
Speaker A: Apparently I have.
Speaker B: Yeah. So this is by, uh, a guy called Alex Slater. And he created an app to help people quit porn. Um, and they have a feature in their app as well, um, where they have a community feed. And he was showing me they, that if you hold down from the admin app on one of the, on one of the community post, it was in a push notification to their entire user base if push notifications are opted in. So I haven't paid for the app because it's a hard paywall, but I was receiving push notifications for a while from it, and I was reading them out of curiosity. And it's a lot of people saying, you know, 40. It's been 45 days. It's been 90 days. Like they've created this habit that, uh, is building this streak for people. It's really powerful addiction apps, um, talking about addiction or quitting smoking or, uh, I quit drinking three years ago. Uh, and I have another friend who stopped on the same day. Thank you. Same day as me. And he always reminds me because he tracks it. He'll be like, it's been a thousand days. And he shares that. So you know that the habit loop. But then he screenshots and shares it and then it becomes a content loop for that app. So, yeah, this, there are some different examples of that.
Speaker A: That's so cool. So I have a 1727 day streak of closing all my rings on Apple Fitness plus 717. 17, 17. Um, what's one? I'll get the notification today and it'll tell me the exact number. I saw it yesterday, so well done. It's. I'm going for 2000. But you know, when you hit 2000, why not hit 3000, right? So I remember getting so ticked off at my son when he was like, I don't know. He's like, 13, and he's on Snapchat and he's like, I have to keep up my streaks. We're on vacation. And he wasn't even sending messages. You know, you have, you have strengths for who you're sending a message to you every day. He's just sending like a letter or a swipe or something like that or a random photo of like a, uh, a quarter of his face or something like that. And that was keeping up his message streaks. That was so important. I was like, why does this matter? And then I realized and I was using. You remember Swarm? Do you know Swarm?
Speaker B: I love swarms. Yeah. Full exchange. Do you still use it?
Speaker A: I deleted it because I was like, why, why am I, why am I checking in? This is a location for everybody who doesn't know. This is a location space. Uh, it used to be called Four Square. Four Square, exactly. It was launched at, um, in Austin, Texas, uh, South by Southwest. And you go somewhere and you check in and if you have friends, you can see where they are and stuff like that. It's kind of a cool thing because it's like, here's where I've been this year. Here, here's where I went in January. Oh, I'm back here. I haven't been here since a year. But I was like, I'm giving all this information to ad networks for free. Um, because that's how they monetize. And I'm like, now I have this obsession. Everywhere I go, I gotta pull up my phone, get outta my routine. And I'm checking into the gym and I'm checking into the grocery store. I know.
Speaker B: Were you the mayor of your gym?
Speaker A: Of course I was. I was the mayor of so many places. And I was like, okay, this is just Lane. Be real, be. And I still miss it. I really miss it. Apple Maps has this feature that's coming in or is, uh, here in iOS 26. Like location records, but it's really general, it doesn't keep. So I might have to do it again. That, that's how powerful the habit loop can be. I still miss it when I go to a place. Okay, gotta move on. I don't know.
Speaker B: They rebranded though. Like, if you haven't looked at that app for a while, you're going to be shocked when you download it.
Speaker A: Okay. It's been about six months, so yeah, maybe I'll have to take a look. We'll see. Maybe my accounts aren't anymore. Oh, okay. What about Incentive Leap? Uh, what is that? How's that work?
Speaker B: Well, you can, you can actually build some of these on top of each other. So one of the things that I mentioned before in the nightlife app was, uh, an incentivized referral as well. So you can have a referral loop that is incentivized. Um, you can also just to go back to referral loops, you can also have referral loops that are non incentivized. Firstly, there is a lot of referral loops that happen because of social capital. You've only got five of these things that you can share. Uh, what's called Clubhouse, very exclusive. So you were cool if you could invite someone. That was social capital. But then you have also got kind of incentivized ones. Um, there's an app in the UK called Free Trade. And I'm also Hard activated on free trade. On user number like 460 or something like that. I, um, was looking for this app after Robinhood came out. I was looking for a UK equivalent because couldn't use Robinhood in the uk. Um, and free trade came out and it's, it's a, I mean it does what it says on the tin. It helps you trade for free. And what it, what I had in there was an incentivized referral loop as well. So it said, John, if I refer you free trade, we both get a share, a free share. And at the beginning it was a smaller amount, it was like between 2 and 20 pound value. But it was a variable reward as well. Neriel will say, like, you know, it's a variable reward. Um, so you never know what you're going to get. Now I think it's between 20 and 200 pounds or something like that because obviously the cost per acquisition has gone up.
Speaker A: Ah, wow.
Speaker B: Do up to £200. I suppose for. If you're a qualified user who's going to use that product for a long time, that's worthwhile. Um, but yeah, we would both get that. So both of us get that reward. So I actually referred a bunch of people to this app as well, because knives number one, it's something that I talk about anyway, talk about trading and money and, and this stuff. So it comes up naturally in conversation. But, um, then I'm already going to talk about it. And so just getting that additional incentive and prompting someone to do it is, is actually something I do. I'm not someone that generally shares apps like you, but whenever it is that good, you do do that.
Speaker A: Yes, exactly. That variable reward is actually, uh, genius because psychologically that is more valuable somehow. That's more desirable, that's more habit forming than a consistent reward. I guess there's that gambler thing. I mean, I took some psychology courses in, in university. I still remember a few things. And they had rats in the maze and they could tap a thing, get a reward, they gotta have it. But when it was variable, sometimes you tapped, you got something, sometimes you tapped, you didn't get some. It was more powerful.
Speaker B: Uh-huh. More addicting. And I mean you have that, you have the action number one, refer action number two, checking what you actually got in return. So it gives you that additional moment.
Speaker A: Multiple loops.
Speaker B: Exactly. So bringing you back into loops. And you can have loops within loops. Absolutely you can, yeah.
Speaker A: Cool. There's also a community loop. That makes sense, right? It's more about. That's Kind of like a network effect, I assume. Right. There's more people. Yep. There's more people to talk to, more people to connect to. That makes everything more valuable.
Speaker B: And yeah, community, social, viral, similar in a way to like what we said about Pinterest, but like Quora or Reddit or things like this, where the more people are engaging or taking part, the better the product becomes itself. But then it has lots of different elements that come onto that. If you search something. A lot of the time when I search something, I get returned with a Reddit result and actually I find sometimes the information or the qualitative information on there better for me to understand this specific thing than an article or something like this. So you end up landing on Reddit or used to be more Quora or things like this to try and find out what the answer is to your problems. And then okay, maybe I want to comment or ask another question. So I create an account. Then the conversation gets more valuable for everybody. That brings in more people.
Speaker A: Mm.
Speaker B: It's a really great loop as well. Community loop.
Speaker A: It's funny to hear you say that because I was just comparing like Google search, like cable TV this day yesterday, who's there to the Google anymore or DuckDuckGo, which I used to use and I still use from time to time. Right. But I use so much less searching there because of course you go straight to ChatGPT.
Speaker B: People use so much more on um, TikTok as well for certain demographics. I was having two friends the other day and we were trying to wondering what the merch for this band was on this tour and I went to Google and they both said, I'm looking on TikTok.
Speaker A: I was like, whoa, who found it first?
Speaker B: They found it first. I was, I was really amazed. But yeah, these lots of people are. Especially if it's something like this. They're just going to TikTok because they just assume other people will have uploaded that content. Other people are interested in it.
Speaker A: Mhm. Makes sense. Cool. Okay, so we don't need to go into depth on a ton more. There's a lot more. There's a UGC loop, there's data feedback. Right. The product gets better, smarter as you use it more. There's marketplaces, of course. Marketplace with one seller and five products isn't very exciting, but it gets more exciting. Viral, social. You already mentioned network effects. We mentioned lots of other things like that. I guess a core question for somebody who's early, right? It's interesting because every time I chat with you, you tell me about some app, ah, that I was like user number three or user number 429 or whatever on like this trading app that you just mentioned. Right. So you're one of those people that goes out there and searches for something new and something and you're early in a lot of these things. That's a challenge for those app publishers. Right. They want, they know the loop, they want to create the loop, they want to kickstart the loop. But it's not easy, is it?
Speaker B: It's definitely not easy. And especially I work with a lot of, or have historically also worked with a lot of first time founders where they might not necessarily know. Um, a lot of the time you don't choose your loop either. You're not like, I'm gonna, I have.
Speaker A: This loop chooses me.
Speaker B: The loop chooses you for sure. The loop chooses you just like your channel chooses you, um, based on what your product is. So a lot of people like Nikita Veer will pick a loop and design around that loop actually and build a product for that loop. Um, but actually that's not what most people do. Most people say this is a problem I want to solve now. I want to grow a product around it and monetize it.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: And then later on they think, how do I grow? And then they think about what links they can add. And so these are, it's a different way of thinking about things. And so I know this other amazing app called Picnic. It's a photo deleting app. I'm not sure if you've heard of this. Maybe you've heard of it.
Speaker A: Photo deleting, Apple.
Speaker B: Yeah. So imagine if like. So the problem they're solving is at the moment in my phone, I have
Speaker A: got
Speaker B: in my 33,675 photos.
Speaker A: Oh, you're a lightweight. My wife has like over 300,000.
Speaker B: Exactly. That's. And I used to delete them all before I went to a terabyte of uh, icloud storage.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And I'm not Gonna look at 33,675 photos.
Speaker A: No. And most suck. And some of them are screenshots that you only need for two minutes. And 70% of them are you took five shots of the same scene and only one of them is good.
Speaker B: And so this is the problem that this app is solving. Picnic, what they do and what they've really effectively done with ads as well is they have set up a game like a Tinder game where you swipe to delete them and it can work offline. A big use Case is people doing it on the plane. A lot of their ads are people on the plane doing it because they found that this is where people, where people will do this. And they've created a paid, paid loop. So they're profitable on paid ads. So they're growing in this way. Um, this is another type of loop. Um, but then they share a lot of content. It's a photo related app. So there's a content loop people get into the habit of doing on plane. So there's a habit loop. You can, uh, the free version, you only have a set amount of dill beats like 25 a day or something like this. But if I refer you, guess what we get, we both get extra deletes. So they've got a referral loop. So they've, they've built many, many different loops into this product and they've done extremely well. I'm really impressed by them. Great guys too.
Speaker A: This is amazing. This is like I'm gonna date myself with this reference. But this is like Tom Sawyer getting people to pay him for doing his chores. I don't know if you ever read that book, you know, Huskin when you were a kid or something like that in school. Um, but yeah, I gotta pay now so I can delete my own photos. But I get it. It's, it's, it gets you to do it and it does it well and probably identifies duplicates and other things like that. So that's really, really good. It's really, really cool though. I wanted to ask you a question like five minutes ago because you mentioned some people start with a loop and build an app around it. Some people start with a need, build an app and then find a loop for it. Who do you find is more successful?
Speaker B: I don't know the results overall, but I do know how successful the people who think about the loop first or think about your growth strategy first or look at what's trending and, and look at the channels that you can grow on first. So probably everybody who's listening to this and you have heard of Nikita Veer of GAS fame and um, what he, he identifies a core target audience which is usually people in schools who have a high kind of touch, have high touch point relationships with other people. Things can go very viral very quickly inside a school or university. And he identified that and referral and this community like communication side of things. And he has successfully sold several businesses based on this. Uh, and this is who a lot of the kind of younger generation who all hang out on X and all share Very publicly and hang out on discord and share all of their tactics are following. And so if you can do that successfully, I would say this is actually probably where you're going to have the most benefit monetarily for your business. But again, you have to think about what kind of business you want to build. A lot of people have a passion that they're trying to build for. I worked with a mother's meditation app and the first call I had with them, I said like, where do you want to go? You know, are you trying to get to a, uh, billion, uh, valuation? They were like, we just want to help people. Like we don't have. If I could help. She said, if I could help a million mothers, I would feel like I, I've been successful.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: And you know that it wasn't a product built around like, how much can we share this? It's a product built from passion. And so again, there are different business objectives and so on. So if you're looking for high growth, quick exit, it might be an idea to build around a loop. Mhm.
Speaker A: Yeah. It's always a question I have in my mind. Right. If you build from passion, maybe it's very personal, but maybe it just catches fire and it's incredible and wonderful and amazing. Maybe if you build from a loop, it's kind of clinical and ah, you're not passionate about it. But uh, maybe you have better execution. Right. So it's really hard if you can combine the two. Something that you're super passionate about. I interviewed the CEO of all trails. I forget his name. I'll find it later. Maybe paste it over the, on the screen or something like that. Probably about a year ago. Super, incredibly passionate and amazing growth loops. An amazing story. Right. They were the app of the year, I think last year on the iOS app store. So if you can combine the passion and the knowledge and the strategy and execution. Absolutely. Best of all worlds.
Speaker B: Yeah. Like runner, um, as well. Um, a lot of like fitness apps actually or exercise apps do it very well because a lot of the time they have come from places of passion. Most people who love.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: Hate running or making a running out. Um, so. And then they have these very good social elements. Strava share my run.
Speaker A: Where's the military base again? Right here.
Speaker B: I found out where so many people live from Strava. I'm like too much information here.
Speaker A: Yeah, it's pretty cool stuff. Awesome. Okay, well this has been another great conversation. I think we've chatted a lot about growth loops. That's Awesome. A little bit about how to kickstart loop and everything like that. How are we going to end this off? What are you going to share with us? No problem.
Speaker B: What am I going to share with you? That's a very big open question, I think. Um, what I. In regards to loops, I would say firstly, if you ever want to chat about loops, message me. My name is Hannah Parbaz. You can find me everywhere. And um, I think what it is is about finding the loop that fits you. So whether that's any of the ones that we discussed or many more, I have some good content about this. I can, we can have a call about it but really think about what is the loop that fits your business but also fits the skill set of your, your team or yourself. If it's a content one, how can you actually start that leap? How can you accelerate it from a, from a non loop point of view? I will be in New York in October. I'll be in Berlin in November. I'll be in London for the rest of the time. I'm taking a holiday to Jordan, which I'm excited about.
Speaker A: You're allowed to take holidays. Who, who, who give you this?
Speaker B: It's my first one for a while actually, so I'm excited and so yeah, if you're in any of these places, send me a message. I'd love to meet up and yeah, just chat about growth in general.
Speaker A: Awesome. Awesome as always, Hannah. Super great pleasure. Great to chat with you.
Speaker B: Absolutely. It's delightful. Great to see you, John. Thanks for having me,
Speaker A: Sam.
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