UK Hiring Crisis: Build Your Own GCC Now

Speaker A: Welcome to the Going Global Business podcast. Dive into the top business trends, ideas and tips to help you go global with your business. Let's jump right in today with your host, Arun Mehra.

Speaker B: Hi everyone to the second edition of the GCC webinar with Deepak and Arun of Samara Global. How are you guys doing?

Speaker C: Good. Good. All good?

Speaker B: Yes, of course, all good. So for all of our attendees, thank you so much for if you do attend the webinar right now, thank you so much for attending. And if you don't attend it, the live stream will be available after the webinar. So just to kick start today's webinar, the topic we're going to be exploring is the current situation in the UK and how you can build your offshore team. This can go for an accounting firm, a DSO or for any company that's actually interested in solving their current hiring issues. So guys, straight away, the first question. What's the real problem that mid tier firms or accountancy firms are actually facing in the UK

Speaker A: as a firm owner? Finding manpower, finding good manpower for decent rates, um, and who are capable to do it. I think that's the bottom line, period. Okay, um, I'm a firm owner but I speak to many other firm owners and they all find the same problem. They struggle to find people, whether it's accountants, whether it's auditors, whether it's tax people. But across the sector there's an issue finding people.

Speaker C: Rightly said, uh, getting the right talent is the uh, foremost issue which the west faces. And it's not just the UK but almost the all the western countries. I recently had to happen, uh, to have read a accountant CH report, uh, of Feb, 25th edition which stated that there's a significant accountancy skill shortage, uh, in the accounting sector. Uh, then if we talk about the mid firms specifically. So there are large players like big fours and corporates, they can offer hybrid work culture, they can offer global exposure, higher pace. So it's a bit tough for the mid firms to compete in those uh, areas. And if you see the uh, reports from major accounting bodies, you'll see a uh, downward trend in the new admissions in these courses, be it acca, be it icaw, ca. So there's been a downward trend in the number of new admissions.

Speaker B: Is this an issue in terms of, let's say the quality of people that are available right now in the market or is it just because like it's, it's too expensive to get, to get these people on board?

Speaker A: I don't think it's expensive. I think it's just the quality of people. And I think less people are entering the accounting profession. So people are retiring at the top end, but less people are coming through yet the requirements for compliance and everything. Honestly, it's still significant. Um, so it just keeps, um, keeps going, you know, it just keeps, keeps, um, it's the point where you just need people. And I've seen it in my own firm where I struggled for many years and the only way I could solve that is by building a team overseas to support me, um, and my firm. Otherwise you'd have a revolving door of people. You think they're good, you pay a recruiter's fee, um, they come on board and then you realize they don't have the skill set, a poor attitude. It could be a variety of things and you're back at square one. Just. And you've built all those relationships you've built with clients is just getting damaged or clients decide, you know what, I've had enough. Um, we can't um, stay with that accountancy firm anymore. So I think that is the big issue. And I think as you Deepak rightly pointed out, as a firm as Samara Global, we've just taken on our first kind of US clients. Um, and because the same issue is sitting over there, it's there in Canada, it's in Australia, it's everywhere, not just the UK thing.

Speaker B: So would you say like for mid tier firms hiring locally, is it on the verge of going completely?

Speaker A: I don't think, no, no, no. I don't think he's on the verge of going. You need good people locally, you still need good people, you need people, um, and there are good people. Of course there are. But you need to augment that with other team members because the people who locally might want to do higher, uh, skilled work or more interesting work potentially. And so then some of the simpler work can be put overseas or um, into another team. But even there I think we were finding team members overseas want good quality and interesting work to do as well. So um, it's important you don't just think, I'm going to just outsource or offshore the kind of basic work because many, many people won't necessarily think even when they're offshore that I don't want to do that on more interesting work. They want to grow, they want to develop. So ah, um, it's key to hire the right people in your local market, but also the right people in your overseas kind of domain as well.

Speaker B: So what that we just said don't just offshore the basic work or just don't offshore any work.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So if you're an accountancy firm right now and today like what roles are most effective right now to offshore first? Not necessarily just India, could be any country. But what was the most effective right now for, for an accountancy firm? M. To offshore first right now.

Speaker A: Well, Deepak, you'll probably know better than this. As you worked in this space a long time, you've seen it many years, over many years. Which, which roles have you seen offshore or outsourced from your perspective?

Speaker C: Uh, frankly speaking, I think uh, a lot of the uh, work which is done in the west can be offshored and is being outsourced to India presently. Starting from bookkeeping to preparing your management accounts, your en accounts, your personal tax returns, you name it. And we have a process over here other than that. We have also seen insurance claims, you know, back end insurance claim settlements, uh, schedule appointments, customer, uh, support. So there's a whole area of uh, you know, operations which can be outsourced, particularly if we talk about the outancing, uh, accountancy firm. So to start with, I think for any firm, uh, who is you know, entering this venture for the very first time and to gain momentum and confidence, the first step is, will be to outsource maybe some bookkeeping, train the teams in India. Because training and preparing that culture that uh, imparting proper training is really important. If we need quality out, right? What you, it's, it's uh, as simple as that. What you input, uh, uh, the, the outcome is based on that. So training is an important element. And I think to start with, we can start with bookkeeping work. Gradually it can be moved on to preparing management accounts. Then we can train the teams to provide your year end teams to support year end work, personal tax returns. So the, the flow has to be transitional and in phases. You can't just dump into everything in one go. That will be a mess. But gradually starting from bookkeeping to higher end, uh, you know, like due diligence. We have started doing due diligence, ah, from our India team. The India team completes that. So I think audit schedules, audit support, everything can be uh, transitioned to India. But to start with it will be bookkeeping and slowly transition to other phases and training will play a vital role here.

Speaker A: Correct training is imperative here, but the capability is there in India. It's just people just need to be guided and trained in the right way.

Speaker B: Um, okay, but in terms of like let's say training and let's say Finding the right people. When someone thinks of offshoring or outsourcing or something, the first thing that comes into head is I've done this before or I've heard stories, I've heard people say like good things, bad things, right? There's, there's both sides of the coin. I think right now what people would be looking for more is like it feels very transactional when you do outsourcing and offshore. I want something that's a, that's a bit more long term focused. Something that would say, that I would say is a bit more, they want to have control, they want a bit more ownership to it. What would you suggest to them? Like what would be the model for them?

Speaker A: Uh, it's very clear to me as someone who, as a firm at Samara Global, we initially started providing outsourcing and offshoring services to accountants. But the pushback I got from clients or potential clients was saying well actually I want to have control over it myself. So if you're going to go into this in a long term basis, the only option really is to set up your own operation overseas and make that be a subsidiary of your business. The kind of fancy term that everyone's using now is called global. It's a global capability center. That's what people are using. And so effectively that team is part of your overall organization. Um, and they're part of your culture and you build that team culture globally, not just locally in the UK. So the way we've done it is we have UK Samara Limited in the UK we have Samara Professional Services Pvt. Ltd. In India. That is the subsidiary company of our UK business. Okay. Um, so our team in India consists of HR directors, admin directors, obviously lots of accountants, various people doing the work. But we comply with Indian labor law and taxes and stuff on the Indian company. Um, but that's all the admin side. The real, real benefit really comes into it that we've got an integrated team as part of one global organization. So when you have offshore and outsourcing, sourcing, still a very vendor, ah, um, customer relationship and the vendor can put the price up and, and uh, you have little control as the client sitting here in the uk. Whereas if you uh, own that entity sitting in India or wherever it may be, you have full control. You can change things, you can organize things, you can recruit new people, you can change pricing, you can put salaries up, we can do whatever you want. Okay. And honestly that is a game changer. That's, that's, that's when you really have control, but most importantly, you have control over your culture. Okay. And I think that is the thing that so many people who've failed in this whole area of offshoring and outsourcing, and I think this is where more and more of these large offshoring and outsourcing vendor firms have failed or failing their clients is because the culture isn't translated across. But if you can get the culture right, and I'm not saying we have it perfect, far from it, but our intention is to build a global culture for a global team that feel part of a global organization. And that's what we are trying to do.

Speaker B: Deepak, any thoughts?

Speaker C: Yeah, just to add to Arun's thing, uh, one of the issues with the outsourcing model is that uh, the resource retention, you know, you have little to no control over resource retention. Someone, a manager or a teammate's been working perfectly for you. You want him to interact with your clients. But then these vendors, the outsourcing vendors have constraints, have restrictions and you know, uh, keeping. Because they, because there's a third party involved. So there have to be a margin being placed in terms of the Indian outsourcing partners. So if uh, a source, if a resource is too costly for them, either they move it to a new client or you, you actually the, the story, the gist is that you have little to no control over resource retention. They may provide you an alternate resource if you have issues with the quality, with the concern. Uh, but you are not very sure whether the second resource will be as impactful, as efficient as the first one. So then you have little control over that. And then that results into, you know, failures and deliveries, agitation from clients, escalations from clients. So these issues in your own, in your own gcc, you can train the person in your culture as per your expectations, which is very hard in a third party agreement.

Speaker A: Correct, Correct. Uh, correct. That's, that's paramount. That's the key point.

Speaker B: Well, well, like going by all what you guys have said, I mean it sounds, it sounds really good on paper, but I'm pretty sure there's like a process that this goes in terms of setting up your own entity when someone actually, they probably love the idea now, like now I finally get ownership, I finally get control. I finally get to take decisions that will be benefiting my firm in a way that I want to do it. So in your expertise and what you've done, what would be a roadmap for these guys? How do they start? What's the next steps and how does it End.

Speaker A: So I, yeah, you take it, you go for it.

Speaker C: So uh, Praju, what we uh, literally do or what we have, the plan to uh, set up a GCS in India is a, uh, 30 days or nine months. Uh, three months. Sorry, 30 days, 90 days, three months. Systematic phase wise plan. So we divide the 90 day into three phases, phase one, two and three. Phase one is, as you said, is the blueprint, a lot of documentation, brainstorming calls with the client, getting the processes done on the paper. So that's the actual work we do on the papers. The second phase comes from uh, 31 to 60 days, which is wherein we set up the structure, the map we have prepared on papers in actual life, we give life to that. So that means incorporating entity into a company, finding your local Indian director if you don't have one, setting up your major processes, SOPs for them, setting up the infrastructure, the ID side of things, arranging the vendors and then talking the potential, uh, resources for your production, resources for your team. And then comes the 61 to 90 day, which is the third phase wherein we anticipate going, keeping the transactions live. So that's the one month wherein we support with the operations, we overlook the operations and we help your Indian, the GCC Indian team to integrate with the headquarters, us, uk, the uh, foreign entity, the parent company. So it's a mix of course, looking at the uh, you know, compliances in India, uh, other things to be complied with, the labor laws, the GST laws, the statewide laws. There can be uh, increase or a decrease in this tenure. But the, the proposed plan or the broad map which we follow is a 90 day plan wherein we aim to uh, you know, aim to go live with operations.

Speaker A: And if I could just add one thing, but prior to going down that 90 day route, we would always do a feasibility for the client. There's no point going down that route of 90 days and spending time and money and everything if we don't actually think it's actually worthwhile you're doing. So we always do quite a detailed feasibility at the outset, working out the roi, working out what are your longer term plans and then kind of factoring that into a plan. It's, and it's that plan if you're then happy with, we would then implement over those 90 days.

Speaker B: I mean I think you can give a bit more of like, I know Deepak's given like a 90 day roadmap, but you can say from experience like you took time and effort to build something like this in India and Deepak also mentioned like the 31 to 60 days, the importance of a local director.

Speaker A: I think we've mastered the plan now. We've mastered it. Uh, we've kind of, we've learned from our own experience of how to do it and who you need and what you need and what paperwork you need, which people you need, which lawyer, which accountants, which kind of, um, which kind of ministry you need to be dealing with, which bank account to deal with, uh, which company. So these are all um, very, very kind of important things to cover. But it can take time if you're doing it on your own and you're not sure how to navigate. And again, I have an inroad into India, but through my history, through my family, through connections and working with India for so many years. But I appreciate many people might not have that direct link into India, um, and don't know what it's all about. It's a far foreign land from the UK or us um, but we're there to bridge that gap, to help people understand. Okay, what, um, you need to understand kind of administrative, Liam. Paper wise and financially legally wise, but also culturally as well. And that's an important thing that shouldn't be negated. I think it's the culture. Cultural understanding is more important than the other things. Okay. Um, but the key point here is if you're going to set up your own GCC operation out there. This team sitting overseas in India is not just people sitting over in India. They are part of your global organization. You're part of your global group. You're turning yourself into a global business altar ultimately. Um, and you just happen to have a great team sitting in India to support your global business.

Speaker B: So when a, uh, so when a company tries to set up a GCC in India right now, what is it that you're missing about India that's not making them take this step? Like what are they missing? Like what's may. What, what do you think? Like if you look at a, like a client's mind, a potential client's mind, what's making them not take that action or that step to actually do this?

Speaker A: Fear. Fear. Fear. The fear of the unknown. Okay. I'll be brutally. Accountants are risk averse, uh, people. So most of our target are accountants. I'm an accountant. I'd say I'm probably not the norm. Okay. But I'm quite an entrepreneur, business owner and stuff. But fear. Fear. Oh my God, what would my clients say? Fear. Oh, what can people in India do this work? Fear that, um, is my data secure? All of these things, it's the fear. Okay? But all of these fears can be overcome and they can all be addressed. Okay? You can have the secure data systems, the data resides. You have the GDPR rules in place. You, you have a good team like ourselves can help hire the right people in the first place that, you know that you're not getting Swissed, Okay. You're. That the fear of kind of, um, in India, there are great people, but there are also rogues as well, just like anywhere else in the world as well. Well, okay, so you need to know how to navigate that and understand that. And, but if you can overcome that barrier of fear, to say, you know what? This makes sense. And commercially, honestly, this makes huge sense. Okay? And that's, this is the thing I suppose is quite, um, quite funny, I see sometimes, is that people. Oh, no, I can't do it. It's a long way away. And people in India, um, uh, yet people will pay five times the salary for someone here who's very average. Okay? Very average at best. Okay, Yeah. I can get someone in India for, uh, 20, 20% of the salary or quarter of the salary of someone in the UK who can do a damn good job. And then you could get two people, even three people that would cover the salary of this person in the uk and therefore just think about the efficiencies you can have. Just to think about the deliverals you can have. Just think about all the other services you can then provide. So I think it's a great question. You highlight project, but it's the fear and also the, the, the backstory that India is, um, backwards and, um, it's, uh, it's full of poor people and the nonsense that's out there. And there is an element of racism. And I shouldn't really say this, but I, I do see it. Okay, feel free, feel free to go about it. I do see it. And it's, it's, it's hugely disappointing. Okay, um, to see that. But, um, what I see personally as a business owner, yes. And this is my business, okay. I see the pool of unbelievable people out there, the unbelievable talent that's out there. And until people see that for themselves, they won't know. I get that. Um, but if we can help bridge that gap and introduce them to quality people, as we are doing, as I mentioned the other day, we just took on a client in the US and he's hired someone who's fantastic. Okay. We've got clients here in the uk we're hiring for. I think it's you've just got to get over that kind of mindset that, oh, India's backwards. That's where the future is in terms of manpower, 70 of the population is under 35. They're tech savvy. Why do you think Google's just opening up their largest data center? It's not in California or in London. It's going to be in a place called Vizag in eastern India. Andhra Pradesh, their largest data center in the world. Who, who uses, um, chat GPT more than anywhere in the world? It's India. The users inject, uh, the volume is India. Why do you think they're setting up centers over there? So I think whilst the large corporates see this, okay, it's the average small businesses that don't really see that. And we're in a perfect position to actually assist people to get into that space. Um, so I think if people can get over that fear and that kind of mindset that, oh, no, Indian people or India won't be able to do it. I think if that's you, then we certainly can't help you. I'll be brutally honest with you. We don't probably want clients like that. Okay? But if you think, you know what, I've got good people, I want to find good talent overseas and, um, who will deliver, who will be affordable, who will go out of their way to please the clients, then we are definitely the people who can help. And sorry, I went on a rant there, but, um, feel free.

Speaker B: Of course it's a webinar, so people need to know. Deepak, what about you? You've been in, you've been. You've been working in India for, for a very long time. What have you seen the changes over the years that people may not know?

Speaker C: Uh, before that, uh, praju. I'll just add one thing to Arun. So last week we were having a call with a potential client, uh, big dental group. Arun was along with. I think you and Arun both were there in the call. So one of the fears, as Arun was talking about, the fear, One of the fears one of the directors had was the long processes and stringent compliances, complex compliances, wherein it is, you know, showed with bribe, pre corruption and things, stuff like that. He talked about that. So, uh, one of the things is that, uh, I assure that the team in India and we are there, as Arun said, uh, are, will act as a bridge between the authorities in India and the UK headquarters. So that's keeping sight. Uh, you know, things have changed a lot. So I have Seen wherein accounts were prepared manually in India, uh, returns were filed manually. But now India is one of the economies which has been drastically digitalized. You talk out any process incorporating a company, the process is totally digital. You don't have to visit the registrar's office, it's totally digital. You upload your documents, they get verified, you pay the fee, your entity is incorporated, you need your digital signatures, you need your pan card, you need your GST number. Everything is digitalized. And in the recent times, in the recent times, even the, even the tax returns and the tax assessments, the process has been paperless, faceless. You don't have to visit the office. It's all you need to just upload the document. You get the correspondence from the tax authorities, you revert to them and the assessment gets over. So this, India has transitioned, you know, as everyone was saying, that 70, 70 of the population is under 35 and this population is tech saving and they give importance to digitalization. India is amongst the top countries using the UPI payments. You know, none. No economy uses that. So this transition to digitalization is vast and it is seen in every sector, every authority, be it incorporating an entity or compliances. Once you are incorporated into India, once you start your operations, everything is digitalized. So of course there are elements of bribery, corruption, I will not deny that. But then the situation has really changed now and the ease of doing business is really good in India. Some of these states even provide you incentives for setting up these entities. If you have large capitals to invest, they provide you incentives that has that talent.

Speaker A: Yeah, and I think, I think you're right. It's so much easier, um, now to do things in India. Maybe 10, 15 years ago, it was a lot harder, but the technologies evolved, the processes have evolved, the talents younger, and we're seeing an economy that's growing at 7 plus percent per year. Um, and that's why countries like the UK are having a trade agreement with India. They want to get into India, they want to do things with India. Um, and um, in order to do that though, you need to set up operations and a great starting point if, even if you're not, you might set up your global capability center in India. And that's your first step into the Indian market to have certain processes managed in India. But once you understand that, you can then start thinking, maybe actually I want to offer services to the Indian market as well, or products of the Indian market once you've set up there. So there's vast opportunities for those who have the foresight, but also you've got to have some balls. Okay. You'll have the guts to, to do it. Um, but I think the key message here is India's changed drastically in the last 20 years. Okay. And, um, for those who still think it's quite the back, back end of beyond, I think you'll get a real wake up call if you did go and visit. And by all means, come visit us in India, meet Deepak, meet other team members out there. They'd be happy to show you around and show you the amazing places that are there in India.

Speaker B: Well, someone just mentioned in the chat earlier, India was a tech talent pool alone. Now India is turning out to be a finance talent. Things are evolving a lot.

Speaker A: Well, agreed, Agreed. Sorry. Just to add to that, I actually think. And the Indian talent pool of finance is vast. Okay. And they have what, 400,000 chartered accountants in India, 800,000 in training as students. Okay. Um, plus all the people who are doing ACCA or part qualified accountants. The pool is vast. And India is perfectly placed to be that kind of financial, kind of center or hub for global businesses. Um, it just takes people with a bit of balls and guts to do it. But if you do it, the rewards will be vast.

Speaker B: So you also mentioned the FDA agreement that was recently signed in July. And I don't think a lot of businesses are actually aware of how this FDA agreement can help them or like what they can benefit out of it. Has it become, let's say, a little bit, a little bit more easier, a little bit less stressful for businesses to do some things? And what are certain facts?

Speaker A: I think, yeah, I think it's early days on the fta, to be honest. You know, no one really knows. But there's certain sectors that may benefit, such as jewelry or, um, kind of clothing or various things that could benefit. I think we won't know until we start seeing maybe two or three fears down the line. Um, but I think what you can see though, and this, this is a, it's, this is very apparent to, uh, someone living here in the uk. You see now you get three flights a day on, um, British Airways that will go to Delhi from the uk, London to Delhi. Okay, you've got Indigo, another large operator out of India, now flying to Manchester and London. The volume of traffic between the UK and India is growing. And it's not just people going back to see family. Yes, that's all there. But the volume of business that's increasing is vast. So if you're not doing this in India, you're missing out every Time. I've been to India four times this year. You go on the plane, it's packed. Whether you're in economy, whether you're in business class, it's packed of all shapes and sizes, of all colors, of all races. Okay? And remember London as a hub. People that are flying in from Canada, people are flying from the U.S. um, for that because India US M is a long way from India. It's like 24, 20 hour flight. So it's a real hub. India is now. And by virtue of BA big operator, Virgin, bigger operator, there's big flights into all these places. In addition, the international hubs of airports in India are vast. You've got the big operators. Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore and I and Hyderabad. Those are probably the five biggest airports. All flight. You get all flights direct from London now. Okay? All direct. Not via Qatar or not by Dubai or anything. All direct. What that's telling you is that it's not just certain parts of India that are benefiting. It's all of India that can benefit and vice versa. All of the UK can benefit if people tap in to the right places for the right things. Um, so I think um, this is a, is this a kind of a shift, um, in the global economy is shifting that way. Okay, towards India? Does it have problems? Of course it does. Are there issues? Of course there will be. Is it easy to do? Of course it's not. Okay. But if you've got, if you have the, if you're kind of got the stomach and the kind of asked you to build that global team and um, want to do it in a way that um, supports and helps you grow your business. It's to make it scalable. And that's the thing that so many businesses struggle to build a scalable business because you can't find manpower. But if you want that team over there who can help you build a scalable business, whether it's in the finance sector or uh, technology, that's. India will do that for you and the Indian people will certainly do that for you.

Speaker B: I mean you just mentioned it already. If you've got the balls to do it, you can do it. Right? So that's basically.

Speaker A: Absolutely, absolutely. It's doable and, and, but it's important to seek the right people and the right advice and you can get it wrong and, and um, and you can get it wrong and you spend money and time and headaches and it's like, oh my God, why have I done this in India? What am I doing? But if you do it right, it will Change your. It will change everything. It will change everything for the better.

Speaker B: Deepak, anything further to add on?

Speaker C: Uh, yeah, just uh, continuation to what Arun said earlier. So the rising cost is an issue in the UK. You know, recently we saw the employees in ICB increased from 38 um,.8% to 15%. So that rising cost and the competition and then the pressure of the accountancy shortly, skilled labor, that is of course an issue. And I think almost all of the work, uh, which an accountant in the UK sitting in the UK is doing can easily be offshore to India, uh, even with a cost benefit of 30 to 50% of the cost. So I think we really need to, you know, the west really needs to think over their hiring strategies, their long term plans. They need to have a long term vision. GCCs are not a short term, uh, solution, but it's a solution with long term planning and long term vision.

Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. And I think one thing you said is that we know next month we've got another budget here in the uk. All right? I can tell you it won't be favorable. It's very evident it's not going to be favorable for UK taxpayers. Okay. And it's probably not for businesses as well. So you have to think differently. You have to be willing to take that risk. You have to be thinking, well, think strategically. What's the strategic direction I want to do? How am I going to build my business? It's all well and good, yeah, you want to employ people here. But if you're trying to charge a few hundred pounds for a tax return and it's costing you thousands just to employ someone, you'll be out of business within weeks. Okay? So you have to think strategically. How am I going to build my business globally to be able to operate here in the UK market? Um, um, certainly I see that as an accounting firm owner.

Speaker B: Well, I would say most people are actually unaware that such a solution actually exists because I think when they look at such a gcc, they'll first think, okay, I can only see the big firms doing it. That's probably the first thing they'll come up with because they only see the big firms coming up with huge ass offices. But what I've also noticed is you don't necessarily need to be a big firm to do this and you don't necessarily need to set up a GCC the first time just to hire 50 people to cover every department. It can start with three, it can start with two. That's how you start with. It starts with small numbers guys so if anybody's actually unaware of how to do this or how to get along, feel free to contact Aaron himself. Feel free to contact Deepak to get a better idea of what we can do. Deepak also mentioned the 90 day roadmap which he explained he can go into that a bit more further over a call and he can tell you exactly the ins and outs of what he can do of what is possible for you when you go to India and how you can set it up in India. Another thing is we're not going anywhere guys. We're right here. I mean, and I also mentioned that, you know, you could go out of business in weeks if you don't want to go out in business in weeks. Well, or let's say if you don't want to go out in business before 2026, give us a call and we can help you get there.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think if I just add to this project, I think the opportunity is there right now. You need to get in and start setting up your operations, finding the great talent, establishing a base somewhere. Okay. In India if you're going to be doing this, this isn't a short term thing as Deepa quite clearly highlighted. This is a long term strategic decision you have to make for your business. Um, I personally don't see certainly in the area that I work in the accounting finance world that I still need people in the uk. Of course I do. But when I see the people in the uk, but I can, I can see the amount of talent I've got in India, why would I kind of um, not hire in India? They're just as capable, just as good, um, and a bigger pool of people to tap into. And that's the whole point. I can scale up, I can build it. And I think the way I built my firm is having teams in both countries. Um, and I think that's what most organizations need to start thinking about or not thinking about doing that now. Um, and for those who take that step, they'll get the benefits hugely. But I think it's important to really differentiate between, oh, I have use an outsourcing company or a vendor out there. Having a GCC is hugely different. Okay? It means investing, it means building a culture, it means building a team, it means building a global business. Using an outsourcing company is just very transactional and that's why you don't get a good result because it's transactional. People don't care. They don't actually care about the work, they're just doing the work. Getting paid, they're $10 an hour and handing it back to you. What are you going to get for that? You're never going to get a good relationship. You're never going to get quality. You get quality by taking that risk and establishing a center and then, um, building from that.

Speaker B: What a good note to end on. Well, with that being said, guys, this was series two of the webinar. And thank you so much for attending. Thank you all for mentioning in the chat for what we're doing as well. So we'll see you in November 20th. On November 27th. Just keep the dates pinned. November 27th will be series three, where we'll be speaking a bit more about GCCS and how it will affect other industries. So stay tuned and we'll see you next time.

Speaker A: Thank you. And one last point. Just make sure you go to our website. There's loads of information on there. Download reports, guides, everything you need to know. Um, totally free. And, uh, once you've had a read of it, reach out. Okay, thank you.

Speaker B: Take care, guys.

Speaker A: And that's a wrap for another episode of the Going Global Business podcast. We hope you enjoyed it today and please do share us, uh, on social media and make sure you do subscribe. Thank you very much.