Physical Security

Speaker A: Futurist Goes Beneath the trends, tracking the underlying forces of disruption in tech policy, business models, social dynamics and the environment. Join me FUTURIST Trond Arne Unheim, PhD, author, investor and serial entrepreneur, as I discuss the societal impact of deep tech such as AI, uh, blockchain, IoT, nanotech, quantum robotics and synthetic biology, and tackle topics such as Entrepreneurship trends for the future of work. I'm a research Scholar in Global Systemic Risk Innovation and Policy at Stanford University. On Futurized I interview smart people, people with a soul, founders, authors, executives, and other thought leaders, or even the occasional celebrity. Futurized is a bi weekly show preparing you to think about how to deal with the next decade's disruption so you can succeed and thrive no matter what happens. Conversations that Matter if you're new to the show, seek particular topics or are looking for a great way to tell your friends about the show. We've got the episode categories. Those are@futurized.org episodes I am the co author of AH Augmented Lean a Human Centric Framework for Managing Frontline Operation and The author of HealthTech Rebooting Society software, Hardware and Mindset Future Tech how to Capture Value From Disruptive Industry Trends, Pandemic Aftermath, How Coronavirus Changes Global Society, Disruption Games, How To Thrive on Serial Failure and Of Leadership From Below how the Internet Generation Redefines the Workplace. For an overview, you can go to trondenheim.com books at this stage, Futurist is lucky enough to have several sponsors. To check them out, go to futurized.org books sponsors if you're interested in sponsoring the podcast or to get an overview of other services provided by me, including how to book me for keynote speeches, please go to futurist.org store. We'll consider all brands that have demonstrably positive contributions to the future. Before you do anything else, make sure you are subscribed to our newsletter on Futurous.org where you can find hundreds of episodes of conversations that matter to the future. Please also leave a positive review on itunes. Thanks so much Faisal.

Speaker B: Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker C: Thank you Tran. Pleasure to be here.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited. Let's talk about trends in physical security. It's an area that, um, I think everybody understands a little bit, uh, about once they realize what the topic really as we're unfolding the topic. But it's not something I think everybody thinks about all day. Um, that is, however, different with you, Fazel and I want to, um, just quickly summarize some of your background. You can correct me if I'M wrong. But uh, you know you have a degree in computer science from Illinois. I think most of your education is up there in Illinois. You've went to um, business school, also Northwestern, uh, and uh, you have spent your career in various types of control system electronics companies.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: Very interesting. Um, but I'm curious what um, what brought you there because you told me also early in your career you uh, were baking donuts. What's going on there?

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a, that's an interesting uh, story. I was in college working uh, a part time job at a donut store, the front uh, end part of the store. And uh, we had some issues with uh, with the night shift baker and I ended up learning to bake and I became a baker for uh, the duration of the summer. It was a great opportunity to make some extra cash for a poor college student. Uh, but it gave me a lot of lessons about life, how great it is to upskill and uh, how you can create value for yourself and others through that additional knowledge and through those additional skills. But a great, amazing experience.

Speaker B: Wow, that's cool. So uh, is there any relations between uh, your then uh, foray into security and this donut business?

Speaker C: I wish. No there wasn't because I wasn't really good at it. So I had to go back to my uh, college major which was computer science. And I focused on that and I'm glad I did. Uh, I graduated with a degree in computer science and started working as a software engineer um, at Panasonic, uh, in the industrial automation division. Over the years, uh, got into on the product side of things, primarily on the industrial technology side. Eventually ran multiple businesses for the company in North America and with some global exposure, mostly in industrial and retail tech. As part of that I had exposure to uh, the security business there. And uh, I was pretty always intrigued by the security industry given the continuous growth and given the evolution of technology in the space, the fast evolution of technology I must say. And then um, about a year ago or so an opportunity came up at Johnson Controls to head up their global security products. I was well in line with my passion and with what I want to do in my career. And here I am 15 months in this role and having a lot of fun.

Speaker B: Well see that's the point. You're having a lot of fun. Let's see if we can um, bring everybody up to speed because industrial automation is you know, obviously famously complicated. But there's so much going on and I want to see if you could maybe bring everybody uh, Kind of into this uh, space a little bit and just tell us from your perspective what's been happening in industrial automation when it comes to kind of security and also sort of physical access control. It's very easy to sort of think of it just as um, I guess access cards or you know, just entering doors, uh, uh, and you know, sort of keeping people out kind of perspective on security. What are we really talking about here? What is the scope and how did this field.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think uh, you summed it up quite well. In very simple terms the key pillars of security, access control, video cameras, video management systems, essentially uh, managing control into a space. And if we go back maybe 10, 15, 20 years the focus has been more on control and recording stuff. So to create a repository of some sorts. A lot has changed over the last few years as uh, for a variety of reasons security is a big focus, for good reasons, bad reasons. It is a focus for all the industry, within all the industries. And uh, there is, as new technologies have come up, there is a need for more integrated security. So if you look back, access control meant uh, managing control into a building. For instance, you scanned a car, you went in or out, uh, video cameras were recording stuff so that you could look into information whenever you needed it. Uh, today the need is to bring these silos together. They were all in silos, they were sort of on their own for a variety of reasons and more driven by the need for integrated security. For more complex, for more sort of complex expectations from users. The need is to bring these together. I'll give you an example. You validate your credentials through an access control system, uh, but then you have a video, uh, looking at the person who's scanning and validating the credentials with the image. So it's a more tighter integration. So that's a simple form of what value uh, the bringing these systems delivers. Then it's also evolved to the next level. Again it was basic security. Now it's more of managing the flow of people, uh, managing assets within a building. Uh, the data between access control and video provides you amazing building occupancy information which can help you optimize your energy requirements, which can help you optimize your occupancy. We know that uh, recently, especially post Covid occupancy, building occupancy is a hot topic. Commercial buildings are struggling for sure. If you're able to get that occupancy data and now you can deploy your resources or manage your facility accordingly, that's a lot of value to that building owner. Another Element is when you put video and you overlay video on top of access information, you can apply behavioral analysis. So if I'm in a building, I'm in a restricted space, I'm loitering for a while. It's an alarm, uh, it's an issue. Uh, I fall down, I'm in an isolated space. I can detect that. I can detect it. A person has fallen and I know the credentials of the person. Now. I can deploy the right kind of resources. So there's a lot of things that can be done that can drive efficiency in the process. Last but not the least, imagine you have multiple systems. You're able to bring them together under one platform. The complexity of maintenance is gone. It's more simple. It's more, uh, manageable from a cost point of view. So the dynamics are changing rapidly. And there's a lot of technology, whether it's AI, whether it's cloud and other elements that are really helping users push the security aspect or the security value to a much higher level. I tend to see it as security used to be that control element. Now it provides opportunity to deliver a better, superior user experience. Because now I'm managing the flow of individuals through a facility and not just at an entry and exit point.

Speaker B: So, Fazal, I'm curious about this because, I mean, I will admit I have worked on a, uh, lot of industrial automation, augmented intelligence, sort of, uh, questions. And it's not the first thing that I. The first use case that I would think of in sort of industrial, uh, Internet, uh, of things. The stuff that you've been talking about now is not absolutely the first that comes to mind. I'm curious a little bit about the communication challenge in this field because again, to just start with what I was, uh, kind of thinking of when I first thought of physical security. To what extent has this kind of been a barrier almost for the industry to really just, uh. I guess one start to really tinker with these systems and make them do all the things that you are starting to talk about. And then secondly, trying to convince the market that there is a true value here by doing so much more than just access control. Because if the topic still is called kind of physical security, which is all of the other things that you talk about, they, they go into things like safety, they go into even productivity. Um, you know, you're talking about mobilizing assets. It's just a whole other enterprise functionality. But I'm imagining there must be kind of a communication challenge at the, at the outset of this.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's a great point. You have, you have multiple systems from multiple manufacturers and how they talk to each other. The industry has evolved quite a bit over the last few, uh, years. Last decade, I would say, especially the last few years, where there's a standardization of those protocols so it's much easier to integrate pieces and bring a, uh, holistic solution to the table. And um, as manufacturers, we have to develop systems that are sort of open and open architecture in some ways so that they can integrate well with other things. Like way I see access control for instance, it's sort of at the center of that ecosystem because it controls the flow and other capabilities that are very essential in managing and providing a holistic security solution have to be integrated so it functions at the center and other things plug in. Through that we're seeing more and more willingness from manufacturers to create open architectures and standardize on communication protocols, which would make this integration seamless. Obviously there is a lot of demand for that. There's no single provider who can bring all these capabilities to the table. So the need to be open is sort of forced by the market. And to your other question around, how is the market evolving? Uh, if you look at multiple industries across the board, multiple industries, you will see an increasing demand for more sophisticated use cases. Let's take a stadium for instance. Today's stadiums, it's not just about having a camera pointed at a certain location. It's about they want to know you have, uh, a security operations control system which has a view of the entire facility. Obviously they can't have enough people monitoring every point in the stadium. So they want to know, uh, through predictive, uh, monitoring of any events that could, uh, be an issue. For instance, if there's a crowd gathering at a certain point where there shouldn't be, the systems will detect that and will inform the operators. So there is a demand, a need. In a healthcare setting, patient falling off of a bed, uh, can be detected. Um, in a transportation system, a person loitering on the railroad tracks can be detected. So there is, within each industry, I can go give you multiple examples, there are new demands or new needs coming up that is kind of changing the dynamics of the product portfolios that we bring to the table. So there is a good handshake between the manufacturer and the customers.

Speaker B: Could you just first line, uh, up the different, uh, industries where these use cases, uh, tend to show up? So I understand sports managing large crowds, stadiums you just talked about. That's obviously an exciting use case. Also a very complex use case. Right. Because People famously do what people do and the more there's of them, um, all kinds of things can happen. So that, that I can imagine is a very rich use case where presumably, you know, we're only scratching the surface of what true, a true panoptic sort of situation. Which I guess also brings some uh, surveillance ethics challenges that I want to kind of get to uh, eventually. But what are some of the other industries where you see this really kind of panning out as a business case?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's amazing. It's really exciting as we engage with our customers. The sort of, the new needs that are emerging. We have a strong presence in the airport sector, for instance. So airports, access control, as you can imagine, it's not simply entry and exit. There's a huge, uh, sort of that interconnectivity. It goes from the basic entry exit points to a jetway. To connect with the jetway and to control the uh, entry and exit on a jet way means the systems have to connect with flight operations data and passenger information. So the complexity goes increases as you get deeper and deeper and you get ingrained into the establishment. In a typical building, a corporate office, the level of integration may not be as complex, but in an airport setting it's huge. Um, education, for instance. Um, it's very, very common to have shooter detection technology getting integrated with access control. As soon as you detect a shot and you detect that there has been some level of, uh, issue or a crime committed, you will shut down. You do a complete lockdown across the facility. Similar cases in the healthcare sector. Um, in data centers you need very controlled access, not just into the perimeter of the facility, but also when you're inside, to the racks, to the specific racks. You may be only authorized to look at certain racks because you're authorized to work on a certain data. So all that connectivity, it starts with the credentials, then it starts with creating the zones, then it starts with bringing different kinds of um, accessories into the picture. For instance, in data centers we integrate with smart locks. We integrate with smart locks in other areas. But in data centers it's really important because you want to be. Your security is really narrowed. It's very granular of who can touch what and at what times and at what levels.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's exciting. I mean each of these use cases have a lot to them. Let's go back to the airport for a second because, um, I was recently alerted to, I don't know, it's just I'm from Norway, so there's some stuff happening in airports, Norway lately Because they're implementing some new uh, systems for initially I thought just for luggage control, but they're obviously experimenting with other things and the scope there, they're sort of saying that in a few years um, pretty much every agent out on the floor will be able to check in a passenger and almost like take their luggage or they can drop their luggage off at any point because literally they are uh, as every sort of access point to the grid has all the information needed, do all these things that you talk about, uh, and you have access to the full information about the passenger and about what's happening. And obviously if and when this starts to work it could completely transform the airport experience. Right? Because essentially you could envision a scenario here, I don't know if that's even possible but you know, where there really are no queues and lines anymore because uh, all of the people that you are worried about, you know, that's actually a very small segment and the others have either been pre checked or they are just going through their own devices. They're dropping things off in you know, dispersed locations and there's really no crowds to speak of because you can distribute it uh, completely evenly across the airport. What is the scope for these kinds of solutions and where are we with that? You know, how, how real is it to, if I was to say like um, walk into a large international airport and never be in a crowded uh, space for example.

Speaker C: I think uh, you have uh, from a technology point of view I think it's doable, it's practical, the connectivity has improved. Uh, we have mobile devices that allow us, that provide us that flexibility and use of ease. We have uh, infrastructure as a whole, wireless connectivity, other infrastructure which supports it. Cloud based solutions are there. So it's very scalable. It's not like you're limited by your hardware infrastructure. The challenge in my view, especially in this particular case is the physical infrastructure of an airport. Uh, it's having an agent walk around and picking everybody's bag and then being able to take it to a certain location. I think it's restricted by the physical infrastructure more than by the technology infrastructure. The technology infrastructure in airports is top of the line. They've been around for many, many years. Uh, but they've done a great job in upgrading their technology. Uh, just uh, some of the, we are in some of the world's largest airports. So I have a good sense of the level of integration we have. The use case that you talked about, if they were building a brand new airport, highly doable because you can Work out the details of the logistics of how you would move luggage from one point to another. But from a technical point of view, uh, very doable.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it's super interesting because now we're going to a. If that's really possible at an airport, that's obviously a m. Massive productivity save. And also the frustration the travelers have felt over the last few years. I mean this is very exciting stuff. So how would that work in um, more of a regular business enterprise setting? So you know, how would the life of an office worker or even like a factory worker, you know, take those two different use cases? How will this kind of technology change their lives as these technologies get implemented there?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think again, uh, from a. If you look at a typical enterprise worker, let's take uh, for instance a hospital in healthcare setting, uh, if we have the patient information, if you have the practice, the people who are working in the hospital, if you have their information and we're able to direct them and guide them, just something as basic as that, based on their information, based on where they need to be, that itself enhances the user experience. So there's a big opportunity to enhance user experience. And that really what it means is uh, really uh, matters what context we are in. Uh, so in a hospital setting, a patient coming in or a doctor coming in based on their access credentials, the person interfacing with them would know where they need to be, what they need to know and would be able to direct them. As simple as that. Uh, in an enterprise setting, uh, let's say a building where occupancy data is so critical. I mentioned earlier about potentially improving further enhancing the safety. If I'm able to detect falls, if I'm able to detect any kind of risky behavior in an office setting and able to alert individuals in advance, I think that's a huge improvement in the safety aspects. An element that we never considered in a typical uh, uh, security system.

Speaker B: Now um, not to be difficult, but the word control by many people, obviously if you're being controlled is a negative word. Right. For a manager perhaps, at least in like the old school industrial setting it is a positive thing. Now I'm just curious, is controlled the right term going forward for this type of activity?

Speaker C: That's an excellent point. And I think it's more about uh, it should be tied to enhancing user experience and it's really about improving your safety, improving your experience in a setting. So if you walk in, imagine if I know that there are opportunities for me to improve the temperature settings, the airflow In a floor using the data that I have, the occupancy data that I've talked about. Now I'm improving your experience uh, in that building. I think control, you're right, is an old term. Uh, I think we should be m thinking more in terms of access management, um, user experience improvement. That kind of narrative should be set. If I am providing you uh, opportunities to be in a much safer environment and create a safer environment for you in a building by proactively ensuring that you're well taken care of. I think it enhances your day to day experience in that environment. So you're right. I think control is an old term and stuff that I've talked about. Sort of it evolves and it's evolving and it's taking us into a very different paradigm.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I don't have a problem with the term itself. I'm just thinking a lot of what you're saying. Um, you know, talks about a value proposition that is not towards the hierarchy but actually also delivering direct value to the people that you know, in the old language are being controlled. But essentially they're being uh, you know, you're facilitating service delivery and experiences to these people, uh, you know, who are walking around in either public or private, very secure sort of facilities. Um, so in a sense it's kind of strange I guess, but security, uh, and control can also mean increasing autonomic economy. And that's perplexing to think about.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think uh, if, if you, it depends how you see security. Security if you're seeing is in, in terms of control. In terms of uh, uh yes, you could look at it one way, but if I, I tend to look at it in a very different way. I am helping improve people's lives.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And I'm making sure that we, we secure the environment they're in and they can, they can focus on things that they need to focus on. So I, it's a, it's a uh, uh, it's a sort of a positive way of looking at it rather than seeing it as restricting access to a facility. It's more.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean the airport is maybe the clearest uh, from, from the point of view that you know, I mean of course if you own the airport or you are, you know, have any kind of professional role in an airport. Of course you, you, you want to be safe and make people there safe. But essentially uh, you also depend on people being happy and feeling like they're enjoying themselves. And then obviously every individual who, traveler, uh, you know, uh, we have Major concerns about safety. But once we feel safe, we want things to be easy enough, right?

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: So that's the main overriding concern. Unless you have this like, sense of risk, which obviously in an airport and, or in any kind of environment where there are risks, you know, that needs to be taken care of first.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Um, can you um, maybe give a little uh, pointer on how these things became easier? What are the advances that you have launched? What kinds of sort of technical and organizational you mentioned, uh, I guess interoperability or at least communication between different vendors and systems as like a development that's kind of slowly happening in the industry. What are some of the main innovations that are either uh, already being integrated or that are coming down the pike, uh, in your field?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think, uh, it starts with data. It starts with good quality data being able to collect all this information and create repositories. And that's why I'm so excited about bringing all these pieces together under one platform and being able to integrate in a broader ecosystem. Then the developments we have seen in AI have been amazing. Over the last few years it's become more uh, available, more applicable into the broader space. It's no longer sort of confined to the, to the research labs. And AI by itself is not going to change things, it's how it gets applied on top of the data. So 80% is open source algorithms anyway, so then it's the last 10, 15, 20% of fine tuning of that data. And that's where it's important to have the strong tie in with the customers, to have that engagement across multiple verticals where you're training these models and understanding what outcomes customers are pursuing. I say this all the time, that back five, 10 years ago you could buy a commercial off the shelf access control video system, a physical security system and install it and be done. Today your needs are probably 80% met by a uh, commercial off the shelf product. It's the next 10, 15, 20% of the fine tuning that you need to do, the configuration that you need to do. And that's where the difference comes in between the quality of the product, really the value proposition of the product. Is the manufacturer willing to invest in that 20%, what I call sort of the last mile, which gives you that outcome that will generate a lot of value for the end user. Then there's two other pieces that are becoming really critical that kind of have been put aside. One of them being the focus on user, um, interface, uh, physical security systems were sort of confined to a small area within your enterprise today it's an integral part of the enterprise. It's almost like the intersection of IT and ot. So your user Persona has changed significantly. So you need mobile apps, you need cool, slick user experience, user interfaces so you can get to the information very rapidly. So we're putting, there's a lot of investment going on in changing that front end. It's no longer that desktop based system sitting in a corner somewhere. Uh, security operation centers are really focused on doing the predictive detection and that requires pretty slick user interface. Last but not the least, um, cloud. Cloud is a big driver of growth in this area mainly because of scalability and gives you lots of options, especially in smaller establishments. We don't have to maintain uh, hardware infrastructure and data repositories which cause a lot of pain, especially when in a time when there's not a lot of it technical workforce available that can support it and it's very expensive. So I would say these three things are big drivers and they would really accelerate the growth in this industry going forward.

Speaker B: Yeah, I was curious about that. I mean your background is in software initially, but yet now you work in control systems. And obviously where there is a lot of hardware is your sense that there is now an increasing kind uh, of integration between the software aspects and the hardware aspects. Also because, uh, like you said, the hardware is more and more uh, slick and there are sensors perhaps involved in a lot of these security systems. So you know, there is the IOT aspect there. But also uh, you mentioned to me earlier the integration with things like cybersecurity. So to what extent is this now becoming a truly digital, um, challenge as opposed to just a physical challenge?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think uh, it has already become a digital challenge because of some of the things that I talked about. The expectations of the end user are very much tied to the data that is collected through these systems. There's sort of that, I'll use the word again for simplicity, but it was the control element, uh, there's the control element and that's managed by the hardware. But anything beyond that that can drive some of these outcomes is very much tied to the digital capabilities of the system. So the hardware is the source of the data and the more and more uh, hardware points that you can integrate in your system, the more data you can ingest in your system, the more powerful your system becomes. But then the digital capabilities become so critical that without the sophistication of that digital layer, you're not going to be able to deliver the value proposition that your customers are looking For So I'm

Speaker B: curious what this means for vendors. And obviously you represent one vendor that's a fairly large vendor. Um, in theory you could think that because of these open interfaces that anybody could become a vendor or that you at least could get new entrants into the market from many points of view. Because you could enter it from the cyber side and say, well, we're now going to get into physical systems. You could say, well we're open source. Everything here is open source and an integrator. We can just enter the space. Or you could perhaps imagine that a, um, softer or technology department in a company just says we want to just do it ourselves because now these are open pieces. Um, but I'm imagining some of the value prop that you're talking about the last mile kind of a thing. Like what does that entail? Is it just the depth of experience of having worked in a variety of situations? Does uh, it have to do with kind of the depth of technology experience or actually how complex these systems are? Or is there something else that becomes either a barrier to entry or explains what the magic sauce is in this business?

Speaker C: I think the depth of expertise always matters. And for companies that have been around for a long time, they have that value, the experience value. But um, you also have to look at it, it from a portfolio. The core pillars, the core pillars of physical security or digital security. How you want to look at it now, excluding cybersecurity, is your access, your video, your cameras or the key pillars that form that core. So you need to, in order to be, to come to sort of the party and be uh, a solution provider, you need to have those core pillars in place. That's a must have. Then once you create an open system where other new uh, entrance can play a key role is building these secondary solutions around the core. Um, I talked about shooter detection earlier. Right. There are companies that focus on that and that comes in as almost like a plugin on top of the platform that includes the core access control, video and other things. That core is a combination of hardware controllers that take a long time to develop, especially when you want scalability in your solution. That includes your readers, that includes many other hardware elements, that includes software connectors that bring all these pieces together, that brings uh, software modules that allow you to store data, uh, create repositories, scale data, manage data and things of that nature. So the core element is pretty extensive by itself and other entrants can come in and kind of expand the ecosystem by focusing on sort of niche areas.

Speaker B: So I'm curious about another area, and this may be one where uh, the money is not uh, you know, high enough yet for you to enter this area much. But uh, there's a lot of concern about the environment and there's many, many more type of environmental monitoring systems being proposed at least. Right. But um, you know, uh, the environment is a big place. Uh, what about the field of environmental monitoring? Like the, in theory, you know, the cheaper the components and sensors become, the larger area you can kind of COVID in terms of, of monitoring and surveillance. Not necessarily just for sort of physical access control, but you know, monitoring information, sensors, data that you know is important in the environment. Have you uh, started working, I mean are there government clients, any kind of other clients that actually are using uh, data from a, let's just call it a much more open field, even like outdoor data that's part of this kind of physical security notion?

Speaker C: Yeah, there is, you know as JCI is a big player in uh, the smart building space. So there are initiatives outside of our security organization that are aimed at uh, carbon footprint reduction, energy optimization. We have systems that are enterprise level systems that take data from multiple sources, your security system, your fire detection system, your uh, H vac system, and bring it all together and sort of consolidate it and are able to give you information on energy efficiency optimization of your systems, uh, predictive information that can help you detect failures in your system. So they're all aimed around reducing the carbon footprint and driving energy efficiency in an environment. There are other systems that do take into the outdoor air quality into consideration, but those I consider sort of niche capabilities that can plug into whether uh, it's our security solutions or the bigger uh, facility wide systems that we have for monitoring activity.

Speaker B: So I'm curious about the more long term future of these kinds of technologies. I guess I could start maybe with one question around sort of surveillance ethics. I mean as these systems become more advanced, uh, isn't there also some concern there about kind of Big Brother watching, ah, all kinds of behavior? Uh, how do you handle that aspect? I mean in some ways you are just delivering the service and then the client has to decide how they deal with that. But uh, surely uh, it is something you kind of have to consider a, ah, little bit too that you providing such a granular level of control, um, that you know, perhaps a little too much at times.

Speaker C: Yeah, no you're, you're absolutely right. It's a, it's a concern. We take privacy very seriously.

Speaker B: Obviously.

Speaker C: We, the intention is not to be a Big Brother here. The intention is to make, uh, spaces safer, uh, for, for the communities that we're integral part of it. Ultimately that's the goal. Uh, but there is opportunity for misuse. So we do, we provide, we provide information, we provide tools and capabilities within our systems to do redaction, for instance, to make sure that, uh, images, for instance, images get blurred and there isn't bias in our algorithms. We work, we work, we take that very seriously and we do everything from our end. Now, in all seriousness, in all honesty, um, an end user can use it in a certain way that may violate those ethics. But we try everything from our end to prevent that and to minimize the potential for misuse of that information. Uh, but it's a bigger problem than just a security system. People walk around with. Everybody's a, uh, walking video camera nowadays. You take pictures, you take videos and post them and you create results in privacy violations. So that's a bigger, uh, overarching problem. But from our side, as part of our engineering development efforts, uh, that's really critical for us to ensure that privacy and misuse is, privacy is respected and misuse is prevented.

Speaker B: Uh, one other aspect that's I guess futuristic. We talked about user interfaces. There is constantly this demand and this I guess, ideal that technology should become simpler, even if it technically becomes more complex. Do you see that trend happening or is it kind of, uh, it's always a catch 22, you know, the moment you upgrade an interface, from one perspective, it becomes simpler, but then the overall coordination and perhaps sometimes the control function for the controllers becomes more complex. I'm thinking about sort of what sort of workforce you're optimizing these solutions for.

Speaker C: Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, security, uh, was sort of confined to a narrow space within an enterprise. Today it's an integral part, uh, it's moved into the IT ranks. So your typical user end user has changed. So we have to take that into consideration. No longer you're sitting in front of a desktop and watching stuff, stuff should happen in the background and you should get a notification on your phone, something happened, click on it and zoom in and do the rest. And if you really need to do a detailed analysis, maybe somebody can look at the repository. But 90% of the requirement is really around quick access usability. So it's changing a lot. The complexity of bringing data together, overlaying video and access control and connecting all these things, that complexity is increasing. But how I access my information, that has to be simplified. So you nailed it there. So we are, our focus is on improving the front end, the User interfaces, improving usability, simplifying it, making like a typical consumer uh app, a mobile app which is designed for the day to day user. And the complexity kind of stays behind the scenes in the controller level or in a software module which is sort of running on a server, on a cloud behind the scenes.

Speaker B: M. I'm just uh, curious then lastly as the uh functionality is increasing does that mean that the market share or the market for these social products is dramatically expanding as well as the product basically integrates much more deeper with the IT stack and with the overall technology stack of 1 and perhaps several companies in coordination?

Speaker C: It is, it's uh. There are two factors to it. One is uh, just the security market in general, the need for security unfortunately geopolitical issues, day to day crime increasing and just needs uh, um, Covid needs for instance, uh we need to track building occupancy. So a lot of good and bad reasons unfortunately for driving that growth. There's a lot of organic growth in this space and then the other element is sort of the sophistication of, of the needs, the expectations out of security systems. So the combination of that is certainly driving a tremendous amount of growth and opportunities for various businesses.

Speaker B: Yeah. Lastly, I mean I was just um, reading about this uh you know there was this incident recently at a German uh rail station with you know uh, with a Marburg virus scare and I just uh. Thinking in terms of security, you know there are a lot of public spaces in our societies that have been historically very very open and unsecured and train stations famously being one of those spaces. What do you think is going to happen there and what would decide whether these kinds of public spaces become securitized and in what way can they be securitized without really infringing on privacy but also on people's mobility. Because one of the good things you know with being at a, nor at a regular rail station today like it has, you know since the 18th century is that uh, there is a relatively free movement and you know.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think uh, it's already being securitized. We don't necessarily see it because it's not uh, it's been done in a manner that it doesn't sort of uh, come across as being too uh, intrusive and too complex. Uh but a lot of uh, sort of the edge capabilities on the devices, on cameras allows for that, allows for that predictive, allows for that sort of the reactive on real time analysis. Just a railroad example, uh if a person is loitering in an area, uh for example Those kind of things get detected. Those are very common use cases. As somebody is exhibiting behaviors that are not sort of considered normal, those get flagged. Uh, you'd be amazed at how extensive the security operation centers are sort of behind the scenes and how well utilized some of the latest technology is. In those operation centers you have hundreds of points, cameras that are being looked at at a given time and you have four or five people monitoring those. So they can be looking at everything. But there's a lot of AI and other technology deployed that does the real time analysis and creates alerts. And those alerts are tied to the public safety, public security systems that gets communicated to law enforcement who are around at that particular spot. So there's a lot of that happening. But it's being done in a m. I've seen the uh, some of the, some of the places that I've seen it's been done in us in a. I would call it a sophisticated manner that doesn't come across as being too invasive and uh, people don't feel like, uncomfortable.

Speaker B: Yeah, and, and that seems, seems important. Uh, Fazel, it's been, it's been fascinating. I want to thank you for um, for lining up some, some thoughts on this important uh, area. Do you, do you have a kind of a takeaway for people to, to walk away with when it comes to, to the importance of physical security going forward? What, you know, what's kind of a one liner to think about? What is physical security?

Speaker C: I think physical security is there to uh, improve our experiences in various settings going forward. It's not just about safety, it's about enriching our experiences in whatever space we're in.

Speaker B: On that note, um, I thank you so much for uh, coming on the show.

Speaker C: Thank you. It was great. Appreciate it.

Speaker A: You uh, have just listened to another episode of the Futurized podcast with me, Trondharne Unheim, Futurist scholar and author. If you are interested in my products or services, feel free to check out futurist.org store where you can book a keynote speech, become a sponsor or partner, request a podcast swap, or buy a few of my books such as Augmented, uh, Lean healthtech, Future Tech, Pandemic, Aftermath, Disruption Games, or Leadership from Below. If you're interested in any or all of my projects, check out my website trondernheim.com which has links to other podcasts as well as my public appearances.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: Please share this show with those you care about. To find us on social media is easy. We are Futurized on LinkedIn and YouTube and Futurized 2 on Instagram and Twitter. See you next time. Conversations that Matter.