Adrian Keeler - From Fly Fishing to Sheriff: Leadership, Faith & Protecting Wyoming

The DFS ~ agent that I was working with said, Aidarin's a cop and he can keep you safe. And that little girl crawled over and she sat on my right foot and I I looked down at that girl and she said, You can keep me safe and I looked her in the eyes and I said, I promise I'll keep you safe. And at that point I wasn't going break that promise. I was not going to break that promise to that girl.

And I went to the ends of the earth to keep that promise. And it it still is the most egregious child sexual abuse case that I'd and I had completely consumed my career in in this. But they asked me that, and I'm like, I can't answer any of that. Like, I can't talk about like the interview that I just did.

I can't talk about any of these things. And the only thing that came out and people still make fun of me today, ~ I said, Well, I caught a badger. Like I I saw something in that man that I I didn't understand, but I thought, man, how do I how do I get that in my life? Hey there, and welcome to From the Ground Up Show, Hey there and welcome to From the Ground Up Show, the show where we encourage and inspire the next generation of free thinking leaders the show where we encourage and inspire the next generation of free thinking leaders by telling the stories of those that have been there, by telling the stories of those that have been there, done that, and are still getting it done.

done that, and are still getting it done. Building a life that they love with their hearts, Building a life that they love with their hearts, their hands, and their hustle. their hands, and their hustle. I'm your host, Erick Loden.

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shop dot from the groundup show dot com. we have a lot of cool merchandise there with the logo on it and some common sayings. We have a lot of cool merchandise there with the logo on it and some common sayings. ~ there's a few fun items that you might not find anywhere else.

There's a few fun items that you might not find anywhere else. So So Today, ~ this is gonna be a fun one for me. Today, ~ this is gonna be a fun one for me. I am joined in the studio by Adrian Keeler.

I am joined in the studio by Adrian Keeler. Adrian is a 20-year law enforcement veteran, Adrian is a 20-year law enforcement veteran, currently serving as a sheriff's deputy in Johnson County, currently serving as a sheriff's deputy in Johnson County, Wyoming. His career has spanned both police department and sheriff roles. Wyoming.

His career has spanned both police department and sheriff roles. he has filled roles such as armorer, he has filled roles such as armorer, firearms trainer, investigator, firearms trainer, investigator, student resource officer, and others. student resource officer, and others. Adrian is an avid outdoorsman, Adrian is an avid outdoorsman, a father of three boys, a devoted husband, a father of three boys, a devoted husband, and a follower of Jesus.

And as of a few weeks ago, and a follower of Jesus. And as of a few weeks ago, Adrian is a candidate for sheriff in Johnson County. Adrian is a candidate for sheriff in Johnson County. ~ Adrian has been a close friend of mine for more than a decade, ~ Adrian has been a close friend of mine for more than a decade, and there is no one else I would trust more to protect my family and there is no one else I would trust more to protect my family and my community and law enforcement.

and my community and law enforcement. So Adrian, thanks for joining us. So Adrian, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me.

Awesome. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Well we start every show just getting to know you a little bit.

Well, we start every show just getting to know you a little bit. ~ so do you mind ~ so do you mind Telling us a little bit about your childhood, telling us a little bit about your childhood, your background, what was life growing up for you? your background, what was life growing up for you? Sure.

so I our family moved ~ to Casper, Wyoming when I was three years old. I always tell everybody that I wasn't I'm not a native, but I got here as soon as I could walk. And so growing up in Casper, Wyoming, Came from a a very loving home. ~ father was a a principal and ~ mom was a teacher.

I one other brother, an older brother, and I really had a I that's kind of where I started my ini original kind of draw to outdoors. I found myself at a super young age before it was actually, you know, cool, fly fishing the North Platte River. And I live fairly close to it, And would I live fairly close to it, so I went down and so I went down and I mean, even as a you know n ten, eleven year old, I had a really close friend and we would close friend and we would we would go down and and fish and I I think I fished that river we would go down and and fish and I I think I fished that river for probably two years before I'd be hooked to fish.

for probably two years before I even hooked a fish. I mean that was it was ~ quite the endeavor. But in that I just really dove into the love of time flies. I'm I started my first job when I was thirteen, ~ at the Ugly Bug fly shop.

And I think the only reason ~ the owner at that time hired me is because I every day after school that's where I would stop school that's where I would stop. He just got frankly irritated of a a 13 year old kid just standing around and he just got frankly irritated of a a thirteen year old kid just standing around all the time. He's like, why don't you tie flies or do something? all the time.

He's like, why don't you tie flies or do something? So actually I started to commercially tie flies just just some simple patterns. So actually I started to commercially tie flies, just just some simple patterns. But really became pretty good at at tying flies even at a at a young age.

But really And by the time I was fifteen, he was actually charging adults and other professionals to come in and I was giving fly tying demonstrations and teaching classes at fifteen. So I really I still do that today, not as much. that that kind of led into just love for the outdoors, like every time all through high school and and e even to today, that was that was always my kind of place to go to kind of get reset. So ~ I absolutely love God's creation.

So I absolutely love God creating Wyoming. Like it's just my it's my it's my favorite spot. Wyoming. Like it's just my it's my it's my favorite spot.

I so in high school I was an athlete, I'd so in high school I was an athlete. when I was working on a roof all day, every day, sweating in the hot sun, I was always frustrated that my clothes really didn't get clean. They would be stiff uncomfortable to wear. The smell came back after just a few moments of wearing them.

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athletefresh.shop/fromthegroundupshow played ~ football primarily. played ~ football primarily. I would say I was good at it.

I wasn't the best by any means, but I d I definitely was what I what I lacked in physical ability, I think I brought ~ just the complete mental thought process that I'm just not gonna quit. And so I think that really helped kinda it it's just always kinda how I've been. So I think that really helped. Kind it it's just always kinda how I've been.

So that shifted. I had a major major event in my life in nineteen ninety So that shifted. I had a major major event in my life in four the sum no the summer of ninety five. I was water skiing out at Alkova and had an accident water skiing out of Alkova and had an accident and just completely disassembled and just completely disassembled my left knee.

my left knee to include my artery, it to include my artery, which I didn't understand. which I didn't understand. I was with a bunch of my buddies, I'm I was with a bunch of my buddies. We're on a boat and everyone's like, we're on a boat and everyone's like, ~ yeah, I brush it off and I of course tried to do exactly then yeah, just brush it off.

And I of course tried to do exactly that. And about, I don't know, twenty minutes into it my my calf was as big around as my thigh, just because all the blood was in in it and and ended up driving myself to Casper. And ended up driving myself to Casper, this is pre cell phone stuff, so pulled up to my house, this is free cell phone stuff, so pulled up to my house, my mom came out, my mom came out, n long story short, long story short, you know, thirteen or fourteen surgeries later.

you know, thirteen or fourteen surgeries later. yeah, good was walking and everything else and I I really had the goal, Yeah, good was walking and everything else and I I really had the goal in at that season of my life that I was gonna play. in at that season of my life that I was gonna play like the next step for Like the next step for me was to go to college and play football someplace. me was to go to college and play football someplace.

And I mean not anything. And I mean not anything I wasn't setting my my goal at a you know, a division one scholarship, but I definitely that was my segue into into college. to into college. So the rug was kind of pulled out from underneath me.

So the rug was kinda pulled out from underneath me. Yeah. Yeah. I think that ~ attitude of never giving up is pretty prevalent among successful I think that ~ attitude of never giving up is pretty prevalent among successful people.

~ I hear that from people I interview all the time and ~ that's something people. ~ I hear that from people I interview all the time and that's something I see of myself is i you're not always the best at it, I see in myself as i you're not always the best at it, but someone one of my favorite quotes is but someone one of my favorite quotes is what is it? A a man that what is it? A a man that Man that will not quit cannot be defeated or s d I'm screwing that up.

Man that will not quit cannot be defeated or s I'm screwing that up and something like that, but It's something like that, but Yeah, just that drive to to never give up, Yeah, just that drive to to never give up, to keep going no matter what. yeah y yeah, to keep going no matter what. you know, yeah, that competitive edge. y y you'll put me in a body bag before I'll that competitive edge.

y You'll put me in a body bag before all that B V. let one of them beat me. Like the the competition may kill me, Like the competition may kill me, but I won't lose it. but I'll lose it.

Yeah. to carry on with the story, I'm gonna tell you about the first time that I like with that that attitude of not giving up, has definitely been the baseline in a lot of things that I've done. this season of my life I had completely I had completely given up. I had really I I busted my tail trying to get back to being able to walk and trying to I had one year to get back into my the direction that I wanted to take my life or the direction I thought my life needed to go.

and so I really did. I I busted my tail but I never could get back to where I was. You know, I was never as strong, I wasn't as fast, I and I didn't play my senior year in football and that that really set me back. I mean, that defeated me.

Like I did I'm not gonna say I gave up, but I dang sure crossed my hands and and pouted, you know, for for a a large season of my life. Yeah. It's honestly the the the worst season of my life was that, you know, around ~ my senior year in high school and through through the years in college. So, you know, I I signed up for Casper College and just went to community college there and and was just kinda going through the motions and, you know, trying to self medicate and, you know, just made of a lot of choices that I'm not, you know, terribly proud of.

But I can also say that looking back now, I wouldn't change a a bit of it because that that was that was really instrumental in showing me that I needed a savior. Saver and I because, you know, Like and I 'cause, you know, I was eighteen years old and and bulletproof I was and then all of a sudden sudden all of a sudden life happened and I'm like, all of a sudden life happened and I'm like, Well, I've got a shift but I didn't know how to shift. Well, I've got a shift but I didn't know how to shift.

I just I just didn't and through those you know, I just I just didn't and through those You know, th I don't know. You know, I don't know. You know you you think about man I'm not you th you think about man, I'm a you know, I'm a I'm a good guy and always it's always the standard, It's always the standard, right? right?

Of like you never really look internally, Of like you never really look internally, you look at everybody around you and you're like, you look at everybody around you, you're like, you know, I'm not that bad. you know, I'm not that bad. I'm not that bad. I'm not that bad.

So it it's usually not even the people around you, And so and so that's a it's usually not even the people around you, it's usually the worst you can find. it's usually the worst you can find. I'm not I'm not as bad as that guy. I'm not I'm not as bad as that guy.

Yep. And so, yeah, the easiest guy to lie to is always looking at you in the mirror, And so yeah, these you know. And so that was kind of the season of my life there and it And so that was kind of the season of my life there and it was was it was definitely a a struggle. I ended up going back to kind of the what what the main draw of my life, which was the outdoors.

And that was kind of where I was trying to go get reset and find myself d fishing and hunting a lot, which at the time there was one outfitting business on on the North Platte River. So I got I got hired on with him. I was one of the first five original fishing guides to float up and down the up and down the river, which was nice. I mean there was literally, you know, maybe a half dozen to ten boats on a busy, busy, busy day.

And say and that's a four fishermen and trout fishermen. And say and that's a for fishermen and trout fishermen, That's a pretty significant thing for ~ the audience that isn't fishermen that's a pretty significant thing for ~ the audience that isn't fishermen or doesn't know what the North Platte is. or or doesn't know what the North Platte is. ~ can you speak to that a little bit?

can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, Yeah, it's it's it's a world renowned fly fishing destination. It's ~ the the fish population in the North Platte River stretch from below Alcova down even into the town of Casper is just ~ it's a it's a phenomenal fishery. And so it's a very it's a destination oriented place for a lot of fly fishermen throughout the world.

i I remembered that quote. It's ~ a man that will not be defeated cannot I I remembered that quote. It's ~ a man that will not be defeated cannot be defeated. ~ I like that.

I had it butchered earlier, be defeated. ~ I I had it butchered earlier, but to you have a significant injury, but to you have a significant injury, kinda changes your life, the direction of your life, kinda changes your life, the direction of your life, ~ puts you into a bit of a a a depression, puts you into a bit of a a ~ a depression, a spiral downward, kinda going through the motions at college, a spiral downward, kinda going through the motions at college. working as an outfitter, ~ fly fishing on the North Platte.

working as an outfitter, fly fishing on the North Platte. How do you get from there to a law enforcement career? How do you get from there to a law enforcement career? Were there any other jobs in between?

Were there any other jobs in between? ~ n not really. ~ I met a girl and that that that was a that was a big transition. That'll change things.

no and that's I I met Kathy, she was going to college in Casper and Yeah, we we started to date and we dated a long time. And I was always w like b working in this seasonal industry, like being a fly fishing and hunting guide, you have to You know, you don't get sick days. You don't have you don't have time off. It's just if if you want paid you you work.

And so you're really trying to c take a a a year's worth of income and cram it into a couple of seasons of, you know, seven months or eight months out of the year. And so I was gone all the time. Like I would I would show up at night at you know, after the sunset and get up way before the sun rose to get out there to take take clients. And so you would have to intentionally like take a day off to go do something.

And then in my mind I'm like, well, I'm I'm missing out on on on making money today. So So that was kind of my that was where I was at. Ha ha. I'd loved I still do.

I love to teach. I love to share ~ things that I'm passionate about with others and I I mean even as a as a as a youngster tying flies, like I was just passionate about that and and ~ love to to teach and to demonstrate and to watch people succeed in things that I helped them with. So being a a fly fishing guide, I know it it probably has a stigma of not being a hard job and there's a lot of positives to it. I mean it's it's fun, It's fun, you're outdoors all day.

you're outdoors all day. But the the other positive or the negative is you're outdoors all day. And and it's you know, And it's you know, you're you're you're you're you're rowing a boat, you know, fifteen to twenty miles a day and most of that in an you know, you're you do it let's say you float from ~ alcova down to the next access point out it's I think it's eleven miles. myself and a couple of other guys actually tracked it one day and the average the average we would row the boat would be, you know, plus six miles, which means you're going five miles back upstream.

six miles it means that you're going five miles back upstream. So yeah, the the program is you float down a spot, So yeah, the the program is you float down a spot, you row back to the top of it, you row back to the top of it, you float down a spot, row back up to the top of it. you float down a spot, row back up to the top of it. So yeah, I mean it's it's it's physically demanding work.

So yeah, I mean it's it's it's physically demanding work. ~ but you also have to be a teacher but you also have to be a teacher. You have to be able to handle adult tempered tantrums and You have to be able to handle adult temper tantrums and you know, so you you're a counselor, You know, so you you're a counselor, you're a teacher, I mean you're and you're stuck in your office is, you're a teacher, I mean you're and you're stuck in your office is, you know, sixteen feet long and you have two people in it and you know, sixteen feet long and you have two people in it and so you don't necessarily get to pick the people that are gonna be sitting next s you don't necessarily get to pick the people that are gonna be sitting next to you.

So it can have it have it has its challenges. to you, so it can have it have it has its challenges. ~ but I always ~ really enjoyed that but I always and and and same with guiding guiding hunters. Kathy was from from Buffalo and I can't remember the conversation.

We were we we hadn't been married yet, but she's like, I I see you during the summer about four days a month, so why don't you just drive the hour north and 'cause she wanted to 'Cause she wanted to get back to Buffalo and ~ so get back to Buffalo and so she was living in Buffalo and I would I was living in Alcova. She was living in Buffalo and I would I was living in Alcova and then would commute on my days off and and and come back up and then during the winter time I would come up and and you know, hang out in in Johnson County and and really get to enjoy that part of the the state.

~ And so we were married and ~ in two thousand four and I was kind I kind of going through the motions of always applying for different jobs of going through the motions of always applying for different jobs in Buffalo, in Buffalo, but as you go and there's I mean there's not a huge but as you know, I mean there's I mean there's not a huge even back then there was not a huge job force, you know, job force, you know, that you can you couldn't find places. that you couldn't you couldn't find places.

So you'd go through the the listing and though, So you'd go through the the listing and well there's three jobs there's well there's three jobs, there's And so one of them came up for the Buffalo Police Department as a police officer. and so one of them came up for the Buffalo Police Department as a police officer. And my my initial reaction was, And my my initial reaction was I don't know if that's that's the right thing for me. I don't know if that's that's the right thing for me.

but I also knew that ~ I wanted but I also knew that I wanted my marriage to succeed. I wanted to have a family. my marriage to succeed. I wanted to have a family I didn't want to r raise them in Casper.

And Buffalo just seemed like back then I don't know what it was, but like I would hit Kaycee in the wind. I don't know what it it just went stops. And then you get there and you're just like, Man, I can stand upright. This is I can't believe this type of Eden is this close to Casper, Wyoming, where it's it's just always, you know, fifty mile an hour wind.

So Yeah, we really did enjoy that aspect and just the the country and and you know, Kathy's family's from here. They have a ranch in between Kaycee and and Buffalo. And so I would show up and I'd just help her father and brothers out on the on the ranch during the the winter time. And ~ yeah, so I I really enjoyed that aspect and I was really trying And yeah, so I I really enjoyed that aspect and I was really trying to get some traction in Buffalo, to get some traction in Buffalo but I just didn't know how but I just didn't know how or or where.

And so this opportunity came along and I kind of I put my application together. So this opportunity came along and I kind of I put my application together. And I know y you've told me before that ~ you know when you were And I know y you've told me before that you know, when you were in your teen years in college that people that knew you then years in college that people that knew you then law enforcement law enforcement was probably the last thing they would expect you to do.

was probably the last thing they would expect you to do. for sure. how d how did that come about? how d how did that come about?

You said you saw the the opening and applied, You said you saw the the opening and applied, but ~ what was the thought process? but what was the thought process, Maybe what was the the emotion diving into law enforcement? maybe what was the the emotion diving into law enforcement? You know the the I I did have some interactions with with law enforcement, nothing crazy, but I mean just I would say it's it was probably not wildly abnormal from, you know, your your n nineteen or twenty year old college kid.

Okay. But I I specifically remember a a time and I had a a Casper PD officer ~ dealing I was I was dealing with him, I'd I'd done something wrong. And it it was it wasn't like it didn't have anything to do with anything bad, it was a traffic ticket. Like I just got pulled over for speeding.

I just I was driving like a nineteen year old boy, You know? And and so he pulls me over and it was just the the whole interaction you know? And and so he pulls me over and it was just the the whole interaction was ~ I just felt like it was condescending, was ~ I just felt like it was condescending, like he was talking down to me and I kept thinking to myself, like he was talking down to me and I kept thinking to myself like like, I I can't deny the fact that I was speeding. I mean that that's not the issue at hand.

~ but I left that interaction just seething because of the way that he he he he treated me. And I'm and so while when this application process came up for the Buffalo Police Department, I'm like, you know, I can absolutely step into that role and and do that because I I do have kind of a a guide between what's right and what's wrong and and I feel like that I I have the even back then I felt like I had some discernment about, you know, how to you know, listen to people and then come up with a a solution to a problem.

Like I was That's just been part of my character since I was a little kid. I just I mean a a problem solver or try to be a problem solver. Or try to be a problem solver. Sometimes I didn't, but so that was really the the driver behind even sending that Sometimes I didn't, but so that was really the the driver behind even sending that application in is like I'm gonna see if I get this and I get this opportunity, application in is like I'm gonna see if I get this and I get this opportunity, I'm gonna be a law enforcement officer that can enforce the law, I'm gonna be a law enforcement officer that can enforce the law, hold people accountable, but still treat with dignity.

hold people accountable, but still treat them with dignity. ~ and so and so and have I done it every time? And have I done it every time? Absolutely not.

I mean, there are some times Absolutely not. I mean, there are some times. where I've I have ~ you know, walked out of a interview or an interrogation with somebody that's just done something horrific. And, you know, I'm a I'm a human being and I my my initial thought process is just Maybe anger, maybe hurt, maybe whatever.

But I've always tried to hold myself to the standard of not being condescending. tried to hold myself to the standard of not being condescending and tried and try to treat people with with respect. to treat people with with respect and so that was kind of the motivation. And ~ so that's kind of the motivation.

~ One, just a a need for a job in Buffalo, one just a a need for a job in Buffalo, Wyoming. And two, I thought, you know, Wyoming and two, I thought you know I could do that job I I could do that job. I think I could ~ treat people fair and kind and and and step into that role. So I applied and they gave me a shot, which I mean there during the testing process there was I think there was eleven people that were testing for two positions and which has really shifted now.

And I was it's it's hard to get people that actually want to go into law enforcement and step into that arena. but back to my my leg, I hadn't done a lot of exercise or well, I'd been exercising, but just like like running and on my leg, it just it just weird. But so they you'd show up, you do in the testing process, you'd go through a physical exam and then you'd go through a you know, a written test and then if you pass those then you go onto an oral board and then you'd go to a psychological exam and etc etc.

And so the very first thing they'd the very first test we had to do was a physical examination, which is a a a law enforcement standard for the state where they set date where they said you have to meet a certain parameter and and I I hadn't you have to meet a certain parameter and and I I hadn't ran ran in since since my knee had been going out, in since since my knee had been blown out, you know. I I I'd I was always like on ellipticals or things, you know. Yeah. but I I mean I worked out but I just didn't do that portion of it and and I didn't prepare at all.

It was just I went up one day and jumped into the pool and you have to do push ups, set ups and and a run. push up setups and and a run. And I did the run and I did not do well at all. And I did the run and I did not ~ do well at all.

~ they actually told me on the way around you know, you have to run a mile and a half. And I came around the last the last lap and they're like, It's fine, let's let's just go in and and start this stuff and I said I said, I'll be back. I said, I'll be right with you and I I ran that last last lap. I'll be back.

I said I'll be right with you. And I I ran that last last lap. And so that's just how I was. Like I set out to do a mile and a half and I And so that's just how I was.

Like I said out to do I mean honestly I was embarrassed because was so I mean, honestly, I was embarrassed because I had not ran. I had not actually put my body into that that before and my knee, I mean it was it was miserable, but Anyway, that's that that was just the approach I took to that. Like they can kick me out. Honestly, I thought they were gonna kick me out because I I was you know, I was a solid minute and a ha minute past the the the standard.

and a minute past the the the standard. and we went through the the oral board and took the took the or and we went through the the oral board ~ took the took the or I sorry, I sorry I went to the the written test, I went to the the written test, took the written test, went through the oral board and I thought that was it. took the written test went through the oral board and Back to back to guiding. I could tell Kathy, Hey, I tried.

You know, there's three three three job openings in Buffalo job openings in Buffalo and I applied for for one of them that I thought would and I applied for for one of that I thought would be a career and didn't be a career and did get it so I'm get it so I'm back to fishing, you back to fishing, you know. I want to take a moment to tell you about this episode's sponsor, MacArthur Company. As a former contractor, I know the importance of working with a great team. That team includes more than your employees.

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com And know. And and they called me and ~ said, Hey, do you want to you want the job? And I'm like, well, I guess so. And so really with I I remember I was you know just just a lot of prayer over it and ~ and just I didn't feel like it was the right thing to do, but I just felt compelled that if I didn't do it it was the wrong thing.

And and in my in the back of my mind that fear of like I I know I have to And in in my in the back of my mind that's fe I I know I have to pass the Wyoming Law Enforcement Academy and it's in the academy and it's the same standard that I just failed, the same standard that I just failed, you know. And again I I just got to work. you know. And again I I just got to work.

I mean I just started to started to run and and and lift and 'cause I I knew I mean I just started to started to run and and and lift and 'cause I I knew I had I mean, I was confident in my in my I had I mean I was confident in my in my my all my other skill sets but my knee had my all my other skill sets. but my knee had had definitely changed things physically. So I just got to work and went to the academy in two thousand and six. Passed the Academy, passed the run, Passed the academy, passed the run, passed all the while I was there and messed up my other ankle and anyway.

passed all the stuff. while I was there I messed up my other ankle and anyway. But But yeah, that was kind of the start of the career and stepped into ~ yeah, that was kind of the start of the career and stepped into pat patrol space with Police Department. ~ patr patrol space with ~ Buffalo Police Department.

Yeah. So ~ can you take us through your career development? Yeah. So ~ can you take us through your development, I mean a brand new hire at the P D, I mean, ~ a brand new hire at the PD, you're kind of the low guy on the totem pole you're kind of the low guy on the totem pole.

and I know you worked your way up to sergeant in the P D and then made And I know you worked your way up to sergeant and the P D and then made the step over to the sheriff's department. the step over to the sheriff's department. Can you ~ walk us through what that w what does a law enforcement career look like? Can you ~ walk us through what the w what does a law enforcement career look like?

What is the assignment given to the new guy and how do you progress in that system? What is the assignment given to the new guy and how do you progress in that system? Sure. so the as a patrol officer you started and you were working So back then We didn't have there there's a a program called a field training officer and that is after you get out of the academy you sit alongside a veteran of of the the agency and there's a s a certain standard that that is set then you go through, you know, different different aspects of the job and just to make sure that it's not just book smart of the job and just to make sure that it's not just book smart but but you can actually apply it in in tense situations and and so you're kind you can actually apply it in in intense situations and and so you're kind of always under the microscope.

of always under the microscope. ~ so back then that we didn't have an FTO program and ~ So back then that we didn't have an FTO Matter of fact, I worked shift work before I even went to the academy. Matter of fact, I worked shift work before I even went to the academy. So that that was it was just a different era.

So that that was it was just a different era. I remember, you know, working nights. 'Cause I mean that's you get the worst shift you could possibly they 'Cause I mean that's you get the worst shift you could possibly they can possibly give you to make sure that you really, can possibly give you and make sure that you really, really want the job. And I remember like, really want you know, three o'clock in the morning, everybody went off duty.

I'm like, wait a minute, like I'm by myself. Like there I I I have no no real knowledge to draw from fro from other than kind of that man you know, the mentality like you know, you need to have some you need to have some knowledge base to draw to make decisions. ~ you know, like use of force, for example. I mean I ha I had no intimate knowledge of, intimate knowledge of you know, you know, how to apply or use force.

how to apply work use force. ~ and so luckily we skated through that and everything was fine and went and so luckily we skated through that and everything was fine, went to the academy, graduated the academy, to the academy, graduated the academy, came back and ~ came back and the the program was just to ride around with the guy that I was gonna replace and yeah, I rode around with him for a couple of weeks and then it was off to the off to the races. They just kinda plop you in a spot and tell you a spot and tell you to be a cop.

to be a cop. And and so there's a lot of different different aspects of the job, And and so there's a lot of different different aspects of the job, right? I mean you can make it whatever you want and obviously responding right? I mean you can make it whatever you want and ~ obviously responding to calls, to calls everything from barking dogs everything from barking dogs to domestic violence to bar fights.

violence to bar fights. Early two thousands we had a a really large methane Early two thousands there were we had a a really large methane ~ population population. And it was a little rowdy back. and it was a little rowdy back it was it was rowdier then, It was it was rowdier then, ~ just overall than it is today.

~ just overall than it is today. And I remember I mean every it was just expected that on a Friday night I mean I remember I mean every it was just expected that on a Friday night and a Saturday night we were going to one of the bars and and dealing with an issue, and a Saturday night we were going to one of the bars and and dealing with an issue. You know, so you know, so Yeah, just jumped in and did that. Yeah, just jumped in and did that.

~ you know what and I always wanted to also was proactive in You know what I always wanted to also was proactive in my approach sometimes when my approach sometimes when it was when it was calm. it was when it was calm, like I you know, Like I would you know, at three o'clock in the morning. three o'clock in morning. Two two reasons.

Two two reasons. One I wanted I was tired and and but I would walk downtown One I wanted I was tired. and and rattle the doors to all the all the businesses just to make sure that they were they were locked or someone didn't break into them or whatever. Just just just to be a little proactive about things and you know, I made traffic.

Again, like I I covered earlier, as a nineteen year old I was I I'd like to say I'm a really good driver, I I'd like to say I'm a really good driver. but I mean accor back then according to the law, maybe I I wasn't. ~ I draw a distinction I make this point with my wife I draw a distinction. I I make this point with ~ my wife all the time.

all the time. I'm a very skilled driver. I'm a very skilled driver. Yeah.

I i it depends on how you find good. It depends on how you define good. You know, do you do you drive undistracted all the time and follow You know, do you do you drive undistracted all the time and follow all the traffic laws? That's probably not me.

all the traffic laws? That's probably not me. But I'm a very skilled driver. But I'm a very skilled driver.

Yeah. And so I I would make And so I I would make I would make traffic stops, but my my main goal was always to have ~ interactions with people. That was the driver. It was like, well they're I was not a huge ticket guy.

Like especi for traffic, you know, I'd always I would always try to modify behavior and correct things, but I wasn't ~ it was more of making contact with people, making sure that there wasn't something else that was more urgent or dire, you know, they were and so that was kinda my that was kind of my life with Mm-hmm. And so that was kind of my as a patrolman. ~ in that I again being from the out in the outdoor industry and being outdoors all the time. Like I have a a probably an unhealthy relationship with firearms.

with firearms. I absolutely love them, Like I absolutely love them. I collect them. I collect them, I know well, you know, I know well, you know, we've we've had the conversations.

we've we've had the conversations. So that led to again going back into the teaching stuff where I ended So that led to again going back into the teaching stuff where I ended up going down to the academy and getting specialized training in ~ up going down to the academy and getting specialized training and ~ use of force and firearms and I've held that certification with the the state for use of force and firearms and I've held that certification with the the state for most of my career.

~ and what that what that looks like is I I would always there most of my career. and what that what that looks like is I I would always there's was a there's a standard that we have to as as law enforcement in a there's a standard that we have to as as law enforcement in the state the state of Wyoming you have to meet the standard and pass the pass the test. of Wyoming we have to meet this standard and pass the pass the test. So I was always training new people So I was always training new people or actually doing ~ remedial training or actually doing ~ remedial training with some of the old people and trying to get them up to the new standard.

with some of the old people and trying to get them up to the new standard. And so that's always been something I've always enjoyed is is is firearms, And so that's always been something I've always enjoyed is is is firearms, anything, any type of firearm or or discipline with firearm, anything, any type of firearm or or discipline with firearm, whether it's from shooting long range competitions to shooting pistols whether it's from shooting long range competitions to shooting pistols to shooting shotguns, which I can't but I I still like shooting ~ to shooting shotguns, which I can't, but I I still like shooting them.

and so really those are that was the that was the big motivation behind behind So really those are that was the that was the big motivation behind behind becoming a firearms instructor. ~ with that comes ~ a use of force instructor. A use of force instructor. So you are you know, you're you're tasked with training people when they can apply and when they cannot apply force directly through, you know, the the fourth amendment and and et cetera.

So that is that's kind of in a nutshell what I've what I've done and as a patrolman. Fast forward there was a a position open and opened in the schools. Fast forward there was a a position open opened in the schools back then we back then we had a a school resource officer position. had a a school resource officer position.

And ~ at this point in my life I had a And ~ at this point in my life I had a two kids I had a Grant was three and Micah was or correction, Garrett was just born. And so working shift work and working nights And so working shift, working working nights and everything else is and everything else is not as conducive to a just a consistent family life. not as conducive to ~ just a consistent family life. Yeah.

And so and I I do feel like I mean my dad and my mom were both teachers, Yeah. And so right? And so that I feel like that some of that just was naturally I guess just passed along. But I thought, man, that'd be that'd be an interesting and That'd be that'd be an interesting and and challenging different aspect of the job.

and challenging different aspect of the job. So I applied for that position and went through the testing process for that. So I applied for that position and went through the testing process for that. and was offered that position.

and was offered that position. with that came a whole n different set of rules and training and like what that with that came a whole different set of rules and training and like what that looks looks like and also ~ became a DARE instructor, like and also became a DARE instructor, and would teach third grade, and would teach third grade, fifth grade and seventh grade. fifth grade, and seventh grade, ~ ~ students in the in the school districts and in the schools in in Johnson County.

students in the in the school districts and in the schools in in Johnson County. but the shift in like your approach but the shift in like your approach to law enforcement is is different when you're in in that setting. to law enforcement is is different when you're in in that setting. ~ I always looked at it as two primary things.

I always looked at it as two primary things. One, the safety and protection of this the school that I'm in. One, the safety and protection of this the school that I'm in, ~ the the safety and protection of them from ~ the safety and protection of them from primarily an active shooter. That was always my my my focus.

and second, have a the ability to have well in law enforcement terms to call it community oriented policing. And that is giving law enforcement and the public opportunities to have a a positive interaction. you know, law enforcement is reactive in nature. Like we can't we can't just go to a call and you know there has to there there has to be an action for us to react Especially in use of force.

to ~ especially in use of force. And I'm not just gonna show up at somebody's house and just like, And I'm not just gonna show up at somebody's house and just like, well I'm just gonna start sifting through his stuff and seeing if he's got, well, I'm just gonna start sifting through his stuff and seeing if he's got you know nope. It's not that's not that's not how it works, you know, dope. It's not that's not that's not how it works, right?

We have to have we have to have reasons and probable cause right? We have to have we have to have reasons and probable cause and or articulable suspicion and stuff like that to actually go through it. and or particular suspicion and stuff like that to actually go through it. So you know So Perfect example.

I'm not gonna go to somebody's door and knock on their door and say, How's how's the marriage tonight? You know. I'm gonna show up when we get a nine one one call from the neighbor that says there's a there's a lot of screaming and yelling and fighting going on at this residence, right? And so that's kind of just the it's reactive in nature.

So that's kind of just the it's reactive in nature. The flip side of that coin, and so I spent six years doing with that mindset The flip side of that coin and so I spent six years doing with that mindset and and ~ going into the schools, it shifted to being a community oriented police officer and I that there is no to me there's no better way to have a positive interaction with a a law enforcement officer than as a school resource officer. I mean I had you know a hundred hundred and fifty positive interactions with students and staff every day I went to work.

and staff every day I went to work. ~ you know I dealt with you know thefts and bullying you know, I dealt with, you know, thefts and bullying and and you know MIPs, tobacco and stuff like that, and stuff like that, but but Overall, I mean my job was just to because well, overall, I mean my job was just to because well people are gonna have you're gonna people are gonna have you're gonna get naturally get naturally persuaded whether it's through actu you know, persuaded whether it's through actu you know, actual meeting somebody in law enforcement, actual meeting somebody in law enforcement, just like I was persuaded by that one cop, just like I was persuaded by one cop, you know?

I mean, at that moment in my life I was like, you know? Yeah. I mean at that moment in my life I was like, you know, this guy's you know, this guy's a jerk. Like he doesn't have I'm not denying the fact that I was speeding, but I am gonna argue that I don't need to be talked down to, right?

And so that was my perception of law enforcement prior to being That was my perception of law enforcement prior to being in law enforcement. in law enforcement. Now Now, I can tell ya, sitting on the other side of that table and actually trying I can tell ya, sitting on the other side of that table and actually trying to enforce laws, I can see how people get a little frustrated with to enforce laws, I can see how people get a little frustrated with mankind. Yeah.

And so Well yeah, there's an argument to be made that ~ just like most people, And so Well yeah, there's an argument to be made that ~ just like most people, their interaction with law enforcement isn't positive 'cause they're they've done their interaction with law enforcement isn't positive 'cause they're they've done something wrong. It's reactionary. something wrong. It's reactionary.

~ with law enforcement, your primary interaction with people is someone who has done something wrong. You you don't get to interact on a regular basis with the upstanding citizen that's serving their community. Yeah, right. You you interact with someone that has broken a law.

Yeah. So I doubt you've ever w woke up one morning, Erick and and and the birds are chirping and life is just good and it's like, Man, I just need to call the police department and tell about how great great Great advance. a day I'm having, right? It just doesn't it's just not how it works.

You're always calling because there's something Yeah. And that that actually that kinda ties into like my principle in in how I've always approached law enforcement is that it might not be an emergency to me because I come to work and I deal with emergencies, right? but I always kept telling myself how no matter how mundane or but how silly this is, this is their emergency. If they picked up the phone and they called for law enforcement, in their life at that moment they feel like they need help.

And so, ~ even before I'd get to the call, And so ~ even before I'd get to the call, I I was always trying to talk myself out of like, I I was always trying to talk myself out of like, this is gonna be dumb. This is a just another monotonous call, this is gonna be dumb, this is another another monotonous call, blah blah blah you know what mean? blah blah blah you know what I mean? I mean that was kind of the the speech I'd give myself.

I mean that was kind of the the speech I'd give myself. Like, okay, I understand that you you can probably step into this space, Like, okay, I understand that you you can probably step into this space, come come up with a resolution and fix their problem and, come come up with a resolution and fix their problem and you know, you know, maybe under three seconds because it's not a problem. maybe under three seconds because it's not a problem. But it's a problem to them and it's always about people's perception.

But it's a problem to them and it's always about people's perception. And so, you know, just tying back into the my first interaction with that that cop, And so, you know, just tying back into the my first interaction with that that cop, that's that's that's the approach that I've always tried to bring to that's that's that's the approach that I've always tried to bring to the table with every interaction I've had with ~ people in law enforcement. the table with every interaction I've had with the And so that's kind of always been a big driver or thing that's in my mind That's kinda always been a big driver or thing that's in my mind is it's is it's it might not be in my emergency, it might not be in my emergency, but it's or an emergency to me, but it's or an emergency to me, it might not rise to that level, it might not rise that level, but it's theirs.

but it's theirs. So yeah, And so Yeah, I think it just shifts my brain a little bit into being a little I think it just shifts my brain a little bit into being a little bit more compassionate, a little bit more ~ understanding. bit more compassionate, a little bit more ~ understanding. You know, and and and policing in Buffalo, You know, and and and policing in Buffalo, Wyoming in Johnson County is Wyoming and Johnson County is i it's it's a it's a huge opportunity to be ~ more than just writing It's it's a it's a huge opportunity to be more than just writing tickets tickets and going on.

I mean there's you know, and going on. I mean there's you know, I have I have I have ~ friends in law enforcement all throughout the state I have I have I have ~ friends in law enforcement all throughout the state and other states. and other states And you get in some bigger populations and you show up, and you get into some bigger populations and you show up, get on the computer, there's six calls pending, get on the computer, there's six calls pending and you just start and and you just start and you just go from one to one.

you just go from one to one. So you're looking at trying to find a resolution, So you're looking at trying to find a resolution, shut it down, find a resolution, shut it down, find a resolution, shut it down. shut it down. And ~ in in Buffalo you have the opportunity to show up, And in in Buffalo you have the opportunity to show up, listen, and try to try to maybe help.

listen, to try to maybe help. I mean I mean be be more of a service, not just you know, be more of a service, not just, you know, show up, be the hammer, show up, be the hammer, you know, you know, all right, this is it. all right, this is it. Like so we've got X, Like so we've got XYZ, this problem cause this guy goes to jail.

Y, Z, this problem cause this guy goes to jail. Okay, we're done. Like move on about your day. Okay, we're done.

Like move on about your day. And so it really affords you the opportunity to to get to try to listen And so it really affords you the opportunity to to get to try to listen and and come up with a a resolution that's that's fair and ~ and and come up with a a resolution that's that's fair and ~ obviously statute based. obviously statute based decisions. But yeah there there is a random call I w decisions.

But yeah, there there was no this is a random call. I don't remember there was a lady that had ~ called nine one one and it was I was the only officer on. It was so it was probably three thirty in the morning, three or four o'clock in the morning. We d they would have they had one at least one officer at that time.

that would that'd work twenty four hour coverage and then we'd have people on call out if you needed them. ~ and so we get nine one call one nine one one call and this lady's just And so we get a nine one call, one nine one one call, and this lady's just hysterically crying. hysterically crying and the dispatcher can't get anything out of it. And the dispatcher can't get anything out of it.

And so I go flying up to the house. And so I go flying up to the house, I black out ~ you know a block away because I don't know what's going on. I black out, ~ you know, a block away because I don't know what's going on. So I'm gonna so I'm kinda making a more of a tactical approach to the house So I'm kinda making a more of a tactical approach to the house to hear to hear see see here whatever, see see here, whatever, try to get some gain some intel on what the heck's going try to get some gain some intel on what the heck's going on in the house.

on in the house. And And I go up, all the lights are off, but I can hear this woman just sobbing in in the house. And so I knock on the door, announce myself, and she came out and she's like, Can I talk to you? And I said, Yeah, what's going on?

So I'm s I'm trying to pry like, So I'm s I'm trying to pry like, is there an emergency? Is there an issue? is there an emergency? Is there anything?

there is there someone bleeding? I mean, is there is there someone bleeding? Is there someone hurt? Is there, Is there someone hurt?

Is there you know, you know, all of the things? And ~ and and fast forward, all of the things? And and and fast forward, she she was was mad because her husband had made a comment about her her her aging body and her looks and how she didn't she didn't feel like he loved her anymore. Now, perfect example.

Like here's the thing, there's not a state statute for that, There's not a state statute for that, right? It's not you you can show up and you're like, right? It's you you can show up like, Okay, that sounds great. Let's get you some mental health services and I'm out, Okay, that sounds great.

Let's get you some mental health services and I'm out, right? right? ~ but there's no mental health service to call out at three thirty without waking up, But there's no mental health service to call out at three thirty without waking up, you know, multiple people. And this woman just needed someone to sit you know, multiple people.

And this woman just needed someone to sit and listen to her. And I remember sitting on that porch. and listen to her. I remember sitting on that porch.

I drive by the house and I can remember the por the the I drive by the house and I can remember the po the the house. I cannot remember the person's name. I can't remember what she looked like. But I remember just sitting there and just letting her talk and just you know, it was a forty five minute call, you know, and I just sat there and it kept getting, sat there and I kept getting you know Buffalo you know, Buffalo.

Buffalo six status Buffalo six status like I'm 10-4 everything's fine like there's Buffalo six status, Buffalo six status. Like I'm ten four, everything's fine. Like there's no urgency, there's no crime. no urgency there's no crime there's but perfect example at 4 15 in There's but perfect example at four fifteen in the morning, the morning what else do I have better to do?

what else do I have better to do? I mean, I can go back and drive around circles and drink I can go back and drive around circles and drink coffee. But this woman needed somebody just to hear her in in that moment. woman needed somebody just to hear her in that moment.

And that was a I mean that's just that's one of those calls that just stood And that was a I mean, that's just that's one of those calls that just stood out that, you know, it's thank God that we live in Buffalo, out that you know that's thank God Wyoming and ~ law enforcement does still have the opportunity to maybe step step into that role Yeah. for for one of our our residents. serve and protect. Correct.

I mean law enforcement is supposed to serve and protect. You you get to step into that service role a little bit more. You get to step into that service role a little bit more yeah. We write it on the on the sides of our cars but that that's it you can actually apply that as well.

And in in bigger agencies sometimes that might get diluted, not because of out of necessity, you know. I mean you you're going from protect, protect, protect, protect to deal with this issue to deal with issue issue. And so you don't have that. You don't have thirty minutes to sit on somebody's porch and just hear.

And so yeah, it's it's it's an awesome community and I do Yeah, it's it's it's an awesome community and I do I I've I've loved serving ~ Johnson County in that capacity, you know, in my career. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, i in that same vein, Well, i in that same vein, are there any other funny, are there any other funny, scary, scary, exciting stories that ~ you've experienced in your time exciting stories that ~ you've experienced in your time in law enforcement that in law enforcement that you might be able to share with us?

you might be able to share with us? That's a loaded question. ~ yeah, Yeah. there's a lot.

there's a lot of different a lot of different stories, So I was asked that question back in two thousand and ~ maybe f fourteen? I don't know. I there was I was voted the the police officer of the year for our our our county and A an award you've won twice, I believe. an award you've won twice, I believe.

Yep. And so I was back in the day they'd bring you up and, Yep. And so I was back in the day they'd you know, you never know if you're gonna get it or not. So it's kind of improv.

And I remember walking up on the stage and they asked the stage and they asked me that very question like tell us a quick story about your me that very question, like, Tell us a quick story about your you know, you know this year and what you know, this year and what, you know, give me a a case. give me a a case and I was working at that time And I was working at that time and it it still is the the most egregious child sexual And it it still is the the most ~ egregious ~ child sexual abuse case that I'd I'd been and I I'd I had completely consumed abuse case that I'd I'd been in I I I had completely consumed my career my career in in this.

~ and I'll get to I'll tell that story. in in this and I'll get to I'll tell that story. ~ but they asked me that and but they asked me that I'm like I can't answer any of that. any of that like I can't talk about the things that I like the interview that Like I can't talk about the things that I like the interview that I just did, I just did I can't talk about any of these these things I can't talk about any of these these things.

and the only thing that came out and people still make fun of me today ~ And the only thing that came out, and it people still make fun of me today, ~ I said, Well, I caught a badger, I said well I caught a badger and so stupid there was a badger downtown and there's so stupid. There was a badger downtown in the middle of the summer. in the middle of the summer and so I'm again I'm an outdoorsman right And so I'm again, I'm an outdoorsman, right? And I I I've trapped and everything else.

And everything else, so I'm like, So I'm like the hey Adrian, there's a badger out there. hey, Adrian, there's a badger out there. So there was a they're painting the mural at the at the square. So there was a they're painting the mural at the at the square.

And this badger had was hissing and mad and the the artist And this badger had was hissing and mad, and the the artist was like on its little s on her on the scaffolding and called and said, was like on its little s on her on the scaffolding and called and said, There's a badger that won't let me get off the scaffolding. There's a badger that won't let me get off the scaffolding. So I I show up, we have an animal control officer at the time. So I I show up, we have an animal control officer at the time, And and she is like, and and she is like I I I I mean, I can deal with cats, deal with cats, I can deal with dogs, I can deal with dogs, but I mean, but I mean and so I'm like, yeah, and so I'm like, yeah, we'll figure this out.

we'll figure this out. So then but then I like assessed the environment. And so then but then I like assess the environment and I'm like, I'm like, ooh, I've got no less than ooh, I've got no less than 50 tourists. I mean this is the middle of July, fifty tourists.

I mean this is in middle of July, super busy. Everyone's heard the the commotion. super busy. Everyone's heard the the commotion.

So now I have a a very captive audience of how I I address this badger. So now I have a a very captive audience of how I I address this badger. And so I went over there and I got the I got So I went over there and I got the ~ Karen was the animal control officer at the time. Karen was right.

I got the catch pull and I I got this badger kind of cornered and threw threw the the the catch pull on it and tightened it up and g believe it or not, a badger can literally turn its I swear it can turn inside out. I swear it can turn inside out like you know, Like they're badgers are just everybody thinks they're like yeah, you know, friendly little critters, friendly little critters, but man. but man. Yeah.

The the claws, the the the mobility, I was really agitated when I got there and had ~ the strength on those things are kinda terrifying. He was fairly agitated when I got there and then I tried to I I put a s a s a catch pull around his neck, which he completely pulled out of but he he knew the game at that point and so Ha ha ha. I could only imagine ~ watching that unfold. I can only imagine ~ watching ~ long story short, I ended up catching the badger with the catchpole, Long story short, I ended up catching the putting it in and putting in the animal control officer car and we drove it outside of town and dropped it off.

But I tell that story because that was that was the one that was going through But I tell that story because that was that was the one that was going through my mind, right? And so being in a small community, my mind, right? And so being in a small community, I get to catch badgers, but in the same moment, I get to catch badgers in the same moment, like in the same part of my career, like in the same part of my career, I'm I'm working a you know, I'm I'm working a you know, a case where a case where, ~ the guy had been had already been convicted of two sh check the guy had been had already been convicted of choosing check sil child sexual assaults.

we had report of an another one and it was sil child sexual assaults. we had record of an another one and it was it was one of those most t it was it was the I I've seen a lot of bad, but it was the hardest and worst case that I've ever worked. So the As I was talking about being in a school resource officer, right, you know, there's another part that I find that I found that ~ one, I was I was I was in law enforcement, I was I was in law enforcement so I was a I was an authority figure but I so I was a I was an authority figure, but I was also a trusted adult, was also a trusted adult, right?

right? I'll I mean I'm teaching hundreds of kids dare and just walking down I'll I mean I'm teaching hundreds of kids dare and just walking down the halls and like it's kinda cool. the halls and like it's kinda cool, Like you kinda be you're kinda like the grandpa of the school, like you kinda be you're kinda like the grandpa of the school, you know, like like your job is just to like knuckle people on high five you know, like yeah your job is just to like knuckle people in high five and just have fun and just a have a positive interaction.

and just have fun and just ha have a positive And so I know you really leaned into that. I know you really leaned into that and did you did hunter safety with the kids Yeah, for sure. You did hunter safety with the kids and ~ really tried and ~ really tried to create some opportunities for them to engage with to create some opportunities for them to engage with you and engage you and engage in the outdoors a passion that you had and firearm safety like in the outdoors of passion that you had and and firearm safety.

Like there's this a a huge ~ component that you know that I I feel like that's there's just a a huge something that needs to be taught, whether you are an advocate with firearms or not, man, just having a a knowledge of Hey, this is the bad end of the gun and this is not, This is the bad end of the gun, this is not, this is what a trigger looks like. this is what a trigger looks like. Like, and just trying to encourage kids, Like and just trying to encourage kids, like if you find a firearm, don't touch it.

like if you find a firearm. Like if you don't know what you're doing, If you don't know what you're doing, don't touch it. And even if you do know what you're doing, don't touch it. And even if you do know what you're doing, make sure that follow fire basic firearm safety rules and keep that muzzle pointing make sure that follow fire basic firearm safety rules and keep that muzzle pointing in a safe direction at all times.

in a safe direction at all times. So really I felt like that was a great opportunity for me just to to So really I felt like that was a great opportunity for me just to to get that that message out. get that that message out And hopefully alleviate ~ Yeah. and hopefully alleviate ~ whatever.

Whatever. So I I do the Eddie the Eagle with all of my kids. So I I do the Eddie the Eagle with all of my kids. Yeah.

Stop, don't touch, run away, Stop, don't touch, run away, tell an adult. tell an adult. So So sorry, I I interrupted you that's No, Sorry, I I interrupted you there. You were talking about being a a trusted ~ person for the students in the school.

you're all right. Yeah, so I became I think that that just naturally came along with the territory. But with that, like I would have I found a a ~ it just seemed like consistently I'd have kids would report things to me and think you know, like, hey, can I talk to you the officer keeler? You know, so we'd we'd and, you know, that opened up a kind of my eyes wide open to you know, that our you know, the vulnerable in our our community are ne need protection and they need help.

And, you know, I dealt with some cases like that, but ~ it really just it ramped it up because and now it was something that and they're they're they're very hard cases to one to w walk through with people and also to you know extract truth and then have consequences for so that really I started started going down that path of I started I started going down that path. being involved in about everything that was juvenile related in in in Buffalo and Johnson County 'cause we have a we have a child sexual assault like a a task force essentially that that is comprised of sheriffs, debet deputies and ~ PD officers, county attorneys, Department of Family Services and and instead of having to talk about talk to a kid, four times or five times with a counselor and everybody else about, you know, the worst experience they've ever gone through.

It's a hey, as adults, let's get together, come up with a plan, have a a forensic interview, have have the ~ survivor tell their story story one time and we can share information like adults. one time and we can share information like adults. And so that really has been it's been huge because you you work as a team And so that really has been it's been huge because you you work It's more of a team approach on on some pretty gnarly stuff. so why I I got into that and I will never like y I guess if I had a calling or a purpose in law enforcement, it is to protect vulnerable people, to protect to just to to s kids and and vulnerable adults like And I'll never forget that case that I was talking about, that that the the bad one.

I'll never forget ~ sitting with the victim. She was a an eight year old and you could tell she had something to s she had a story to tell and she was was just scared, didn't know how to say it, say I didn't know what to do. And I remember sitting with ~ DFS agent didn't know what to do. And I remember sitting with the DFS agent that I was working with and at a table kinda like us and and she had actually I was working with and at a table kinda like us and and she had actually got up and she'd she'd crawled down underneath the table and she was just balled got up and she'd she crawled down underneath the table and she was just balled up like and just would talk to us but didn't want to make eye contact or s up like and just would talk to us but didn't want to make eye contact which is and and ~ just her her body language was I mean, and and ~ just her her body language was I mean, you know you know, fast forward and go through a lot of training.

I it's it's it's an absolute correct response for someone that's that's been through a significant trauma. and I r I'll remember I always remember the the DFS agent that I was working with said, you know, we're we're we're people that you can talk to and you're trusted and Adrian Adrian's a cop and he can keep you safe. And ~ Jeez, this is a I haven't I haven't thought about this or verbalized it in years, but that little girl crawled over and she sat on my right foot and And she latched onto my leg.

she latched onto my leg and I I could just feel her whole bod body shivering. And I I looked down at that girl and she said, You can keep me safe and I looked her in the eyes and I said, I promise I'll keep you safe And at that point ~ I wasn't gonna break that promise. I was not going to break that promise to that girl. And I went to the ends of the earth.

to keep that promise. Fast forward, I did. And you know, the gentleman went to prison and we actually went you know the gentleman went to prison and to the Wyoming Supreme Court and it was upheld there and and so that's that that moment was a defining moment in my career and I at that moment I said, This is this is what I'm supposed to do. It's nobody wants to walk and wade through that stuff.

Nobody wants to walk away through that stuff. It's just messy. It's nasty. You don't want to hear about that stuff.

It's just messy. It's nasty. You don't want to hear about that stuff. You don't want to have to You know, You don't want to have to you know there's I mean really it's one there's I mean, really it's one of those things that as a culture and as a society, of those things that as a culture and as a society it's easier to just well it's easier to just well, if it's not if it's not blatantly in my face, if it's not if it's not blindly in my face, then I can just kind of not I know it's there, then I can just kind of not I know it's there.

I know it's a part of society. I know it's a part of society, I know it's part of I know it's a part of humans, but I also know that I don't really want to dive into that humans, but I also know that I don't really want to dive into that and figure it out. and figure it out. And I was the same way.

but I tell you that that moment completely changed the same way. but I tell you that that moment completely changed the trajectory of my career and my resolve to all of a sudden pulling somebody over the trajectory of my career and my resolve to all of a sudden pulling somebody over for going six miles an hour wasn't important to me. for going six miles an hour wasn't important to me. All of a sudden All of a sudden you know I still did those things but It was a it became kind of well, God used that moment, put me right where I needed to be, and shifted my mind and my heart and I also learned that I never make promises anymore.

I mean that's you know, I tell I I try my best. I'll do whatever I can I'm gonna try to keep you safe and do and all those things. But doesn't change how I approach the case, change how I approach the case, but it definitely changed I just wasn't gonna break my word to that little girl. but it definitely changed And I you know, fast forward I see her And ~ you know, fast forward I see her once in a while she's a once in a while she's young adult.

and to see her flourishing I guess in society and also know the amount of evil that she endured. just makes my I just thank God that he used me in that capacity, you know? Yeah. Huh.

Yeah. Huh. One of my favorite questions I like to ask people is w what One of my favorite questions I like to ask people is w what is the is the ~ their favorite and least favorite aspect of their job? ~ their favorite and least favorite aspect of their job.

~ I have a feeling those two things probably overlap for you. I have a feeling those two things probably overlap for you. Yeah. You're right.

~ Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's just it's sometimes it's the the wading through some really, really tough stuff with people and I absolutely hate it. I hate to see some of the things that that people endure and And there's there's a time where you just feel like, Man, am I am I gonna make a difference, you know, or whatever. Maybe I watched too many John Wayne movies when I was a kid, Maybe I watched too many John Wayne movies when I was a kid, you know, and it's like man I'm gonna step in and just and and and solve you know, and it's like, man, I'm gonna step in and just then and and solve the problem and fix the fix all of this and wrap it up in the problem and fix the fix all of this and wrap it up in a thirty minute episode, a thirty minute episode, you know, you know, but but the the reality of it is is it's it's real people and it's it's different when it's it's something to read or you see see on the news and you see things.

but when you're in the middle of it and it's your job to try to keep that that survivor I don't like to use the word victim, but you know, that survivor of a a child sexual assault or something, to help protect them, to keep them safe. I mean that's I hope it doesn't sound cliche, but that truly is my motivation for why I'm still in law enforcement today. Mm. Well you stepped into another question I had on my list here.

You stepped into another question I had on my list here. I think law enforcement is one of those jobs or one of those careers that people I think law enforcement is one of those jobs or one of those careers that people probably think they understand. probably think they understand. ~ but the the average person probably really has no idea what you do ~ but the the average person probably really has no idea what you do or what you experience, what it's really like.

or what you experience, what it's really like. what is something that you would like the average person to understand about what is something that you would like the average person to understand about the life of a law enforcement officer? the life of a law enforcement officer? You know, we're at the end of the day we're all people, right?

And so there's going to be And you're a l oftentimes you're you're you're f set to make decisions, with just the information that you have at that moment, right? We're not And sometimes there's wrong decisions to be made, or that are made, but in those in those dynamic moments where things are rapidly evolving and and you know, the wheels are coming off the bus and you have, you know a half a second to make a make a decision and then you have to stand decision and then you have to stand by that decision or live with that decision by that decision or live with that decision and potentially get critiqued and potentially get critiqued by the rest of the community or by the rest of the community or an attorney or whatever.

an attorney or whatever. I mean it's it's it's it's a it's definitely a I mean it's it's it's it's a it's definitely a ~ a tough job. ~ a tough job and I again I'm I'm I'm thinking of like big picture stuff like And I again I'm I'm I'm thinking of like big picture stuff like like national news not national news stuff right now when we're talking about that. stuff right now when we're talking about that.

and in Buffalo I feel like we are you know and in Buffalo I feel like we are, you know y Yeah in Wyoming, I feel like we are at least ten years behind that trend of you know, the anti law enforcement thought process. So and I again I'm thankful for for living in Johnson County and living here because the the people there's still people that support law enforcement and It is a tough job. And being a first responder, whether you're you know, an EMT or a fireman or being the you know, the on call mental health worker that has to come out and sit with a a mom that just lost her son or child, you know, that I mean some pretty tough stuff to to sit through and and ~ and so they're It does it it's just it's I'm not gonna say it's a thankless job 'cause it's not.

I mean, there's a lot of people that come up and to me and say, you know, thank you and There there's a lot more, just like you said, there's a lot more that goes into it. I mean you you're you're filtering through you know, decisions that you're making through, you know, the constitution. You're feel you I mean, you don't want to make a a poor decision that that 'cause we we live our whether whether you agree or not with with our our society, society, my stance is that it's it's still the best society in the world.

my stance is that it's it's still the best society in the world. we still have the ability to say what we want to say. We still have the ability to say what we want to say. We still have the ability to have We still have the ability to have firearms.

We still have the ability to not just have a cop show up and kick down your door and and go through your stuff. And, you know, that's pretty good because there's a lot of places in the world that that absolutely happens. And You have to filter decisions through through that matrix. You have to filter decisions through you're the the safety of you.

You have to filter those decisions through the safety of others. so there's a lot of things, a lot of dynamics that are going on, even on a even on a traffic stop, you know, I mean That was something you said to me a few years ago that kinda turned Yeah. That was something you said to me a few years ago that kinda turned that light that light on for me was ~ on for me was ~ you know, there'd be an a few incidents in the news at that time where somebody You know, there'd be an a few incidents in the news at that time where somebody got pulled over for a routine traffic stop and pulled out a concealed firearm got pulled over for a routine traffic stop and pulled out a concealed firearm and started firing at the the officer pulling him over and I think and started firing at the the officer pulling him over and I think we were talking about body armor at the time and and you said, we were talking about body armor at the time and and you said, you know, for the person getting pulled over, you know, for the person getting pulled over, that's a pretty routine interaction.

that's a pretty routine interaction. You know, you You know, you you broke a traffic law, you get pulled over, You broke a traffic law, you get pulled over, you get a warning, you get a ticket, you get a warning, you get a ticket, you know what to expect from the officer. you know what to expect from the officer. They they may or may not be rude to you, They they may or may not be rude to you, but it's but it's it's a routine thing.

And for the officer conducting that It's a routine thing. And for the officer conducting that incident that pulling that person over, incident that pulling that person over, ~ there's a ninety nine point nine percent chance it's a routine thing. ~ there's a ninety nine point nine percent chance it's a routine thing. And there's the point one percent chance that that person you pulled over is doing Yep.

And there's the point one percent chance that that person you pulled over is doing something more than a simple traffic stop. something more than a simple traffic stop. There there's something more illicit going on and y y your life is on the line. There there's something more illicit going on and your life is on the line.

You're absolutely right. If you if you're caught flat on your feet And so the You don't get to go see your kids. You don't get to go see your kids. Yeah.

Your kids have to your your wife has to bury you. Like that's a that's a certain weight that you know, That's a that's a certain weight that you know and and the the idea that and and the the idea that it can't you know, happen here. It again, we have we have a f a phenomenal community. we have a phenomenal state, I'd say overall, but I mean, just just yesterday we had an active shooter in Bags, Wyoming.

Like Like population what, six hundred? Yeah. Population what, six hundred? Yeah.

Maybe? So I mean demographically Maybe so I mean I guess what I've always said is like, yes, we have we we live in a very safe community. We live in a in in a phenomenal community with with a good moral backbone backbone and and kind of compass. but there's still people involved and that's the reality.

I mean Bags, Wyoming, six hundred people just shot a deputy, Bags, Wyoming, six hundred people just shot a deputy, ended up in a in a high speed chase. ended up in a in a high speed chase. And I can't speak to that 'cause I don't know all the details, And I can't speak to that 'cause I don't know all the details, but I do know a deputy was injured and ~ but I do know a deputy was injured and Yeah, so they're main Yeah. And that's a a level of stress, Yeah.

And that's a a level of stress, a level of i it brings a new perspective to those interactions. a level of i it brings a new perspective to those interactions. Most of the time when the when the average typical law abiding citizen Most of the time when the when the average typical law abiding citizen has an interaction with law enforcement, has an interaction with law enforcement, it you know, it it's a pain, it's a hassle, it you know, it it's a pain, it's a hassle, they didn't enjoy it.

~ I often hear people, they didn't enjoy it. ~ I often hear people you know, you know, comment about how they were the the law enforcement officer comment about how they were the the law enforcement officer was a little too was a little too too aggressive or i i you know, too aggressive or i you know, whatever. whatever. and what most people I think don't get or what was open my eyes were open And what most people I think don't get or what was open my eyes were open to that day when you with you explaining that is like that that door to that day when you with you explaining that is like the that door's always open is always op like the person getting pulled over doesn't ever think like the person getting pulled over doesn't ever think the deputy's just gonna whip the deputy's just gonna whip out their gun and shoot You know, out their gun and shoot You know, like they don't have to deal with that stress.

like they don't have to deal with that stress. And you have to be prepared for that eventuality. And y you have to be prepared for that eventuality. You have to deal with that stress.

You have to deal with that stress. You have that weighing on you. You have that weighing on you. And yet you also have to conduct yourself in a way And yet you also have to conduct yourself in a way that is reasonable for the average law abiding citizen that was speeding that is reasonable for the average law abiding citizen that was speeding a little bit.

And it that's a that's a heavy dynamic. a little bit. Yep. And i that's a that's a heavy dynamic.

It's it's it's definitely unique for sure. It's it's it's definitely unique for sure. Yeah. You know, and I I I can't im I don't know of any other profession where you th that that's your day to day interaction.

I mean obviously I've gone I've ~ you go to work Mm. and you have ten interactions with with people. And and so a lot of people e y the perception that I've I've heard in the past is like, Man, he was really aggressive or he was like, you know, we were standing outside Why are you walking up with your hand Why are you walking up with your hand on your gun? on your gun?

Yeah, or yeah. You know, but but the you know, y in that scenario you you get called to I'll just use one that I've been to. ~ Ben is ~ you know, you get called to a a bar fight, you see a guy that matches the description. It's wintertime in Buffalo.

has a car heart coat on, he has both of his hands in his pockets, right? And we're walking up. I'm I'm cold too, but I mean the very first thing I'm gonna do is I'm you know, thing I'm gonna do is I you know, I'm not gonna say hi, my name's I'm not gonna say, Hi, my name's Officer Keeler. I'd love to chat with you.

I'm saying show me your hands. Like get your hands out of your pockets, hands out of your pockets, let me see your hands. let me see your hands. And every time they go back to reaching into that, And every time they go back to reaching into that into their hand pocket, into their hand pocket, you're like you're like Why?

What's in there? I mean, so they're just just that simple command of like in there. I mean so they're just just that simple command of like I I I wanna deal with the situation. I wanna deal with the situation.

I need to be able to again in my mind show respect. I need to be able to again in my mind show respect, not talk down to this person, because and also try to mitigate the the chances I talk down to this person. Also try to mitigate the the chances of me getting harmed or other people around of me getting harmed or other people around them. them.

And and so yeah, it's a it's a it's a dance for sure of trying to And and so yeah, it's a it's a it's a dance for sure of trying to to work that every to work that every day and day and and then you go home and there's just a I you know the one thing that And then you go home and there's just a I you know, the one thing that I would say that I would like a big takeaway I would say that I would like a big takeaway for for law enforcement for for law enforcement or people to know about or people to know about law enforcement is that it being in that that like type of alertness or preparedness and still be able to, you know, lean across the tailgate and and talk with somebody, but still have that that part of your brain that's like, okay, like we're talking about things where everything's going fine, but I still need to be, you know, I still need to be, you know, paying attention to body language, paying attention to body language.

I need to be paying attention to his hands. I need to be paying attention to his hands. I need to be paying attention to all these things because well, I need to be paying attention to all these things because well, it it could happen. You never know what's gonna happen.

it it could happen. You never know what's gonna happen. And so just that cycle in your brain, And so just that cycle in your brain, I mean it's it's fatiguing. It really is.

I mean it's it's fatiguing. It really is. I mean, a ten hour shift and every person that you see, I mean a ten hour shift and every person that you see, and I know every law enforcement officer that that's listening to this will know And I know every law enforcement officer that that's listening to this will know exactly what I'm talking about. exactly what I'm talking about, But but I mean, you go out to a restaurant and it is back to the wall.

You're sitting there trying to talk to your family and talk to the kids, but you are scanning every I mean, it is like system overload, like there's like there's f there's a guy over there, he's looking at he l he made eye contact, there's this, there's that, who's this? And y so in your head, you're y that never really shuts down. And so in your head, you're y that never really shuts down. You know, you're just super You know, you're just super it's not paranoia, it's not, it's just it's awareness that bad things happen It's not paranoia, it's not.

It's just it's awareness that bad things happen and it could happen to you at any moment. and it could happen to you at any moment. And and so you you you live your life in that, And and so you you you live your life in that, you know. It's the only time that that I think for myself personally when you know.

It's the only time that that I think for myself personally when I when I kinda could just let that guard down was I when I kinda could just let that guard down was when I was out in the middle of nowhere. or in my house with my family and I'd already made a security check, security check, make sure everything's locked and I know where all my firearms are. make sure everything's locked and I know where all my firearms are. You know what I mean?

Like it's so it's not really gone, You know what I mean? Like it's so it's not really gone gone, gone, but it's you know, you can just finally okay sit down, but it's you know, you can just finally okay sit down, eat popcorn, watch a movie and and hang out with the with the family. eat popcorn, watch a movie and and hang out with it. So yeah.

Definitely a interesting thing to put your your mind through, you know, on repeat for twenty or fifteen, thirty years, whatever your your career ends up being so Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've talked about firearms a few times. Well yeah we've talked about firearms a few times.

That was one of the areas you and I connected early on. That was one of the areas you and I connected early on with I think you called We both ~ I think you called it an unhealthy affinity for firearms. it an unhealthy affinity for firearms. I I I would argue that but I I I would argue that, but for the the gun guys out there, For the the gun guys out there, the the gear geeks, can you tell us a little bit about kind of what your loadout the the gear geeks, can you tell us a little bit about kind of what your loadout is as a sheriff's deputy?

What what kind of a weapon do you carry? is as a sheriff's deputy? What what kind of a weapon do you carry? What kind of weapons do you have access to?

What kind of weapons do you have access to? ~ what does your uniform look like as far as tools outside of weapons or body armor, what does your uniform look like as far as ~ tools outside of weapons or body armor, that kind of thing? so a handgun, that kind of thing? ~ nine millimeter and you know, have a patrol rifle, shotgun.

as a as an investigator now, I carry just a just a handgun primarily with me. and I'm usually dressed in you know, business attire or something something to that. But if I'm if I'm going to an urgent call, like I have, you know, my vest with all my all the rest of my gear and my kid on it that I can that I can put on and I always do that before I get to something. So if I'm going getting called out or if I'm going to serve a search warrant or if I'm going to You know, do anything that's that's more high risk, I guess, that's when I then you know, I've just put my my vest on and it has my you know, taser and all the other cool gadgets on it.

So Okay. If you are elected sheriff, is there any changes you would make to If you are elected sheriff, is there any changes you would make to the the equipment or the gear that your deputies would be issued? the ~ the equipment or the gear that your deputies would be issued? I mean, there's always things that you would want to maybe improve, but really, again, being in the firearms instructor, like I have a pretty as far as the w the the weapon systems are concerned, like I I was pretty influential in in our decision making process, so I'm standing behind like I'm thinking we we did a pretty good job, you know?

but I mean, as far as gear is concerned, there's always I mean just just wear and tear on vehicles and trying to keep, you know, our taser systems up to date and, you know, that's it's it's just all costs money and everything. Just like everything else in the in the world, everything keeps keeps g becoming inflated. But ~ yeah, is there is there probably higher speed, newer things out there? Yeah, but I I feel like we are adequately, you know geared up for most situations that we're gonna be task to deal with.

So you just mentioned y you know, Yeah. Well you just mentioned y you know, tasers and ~ advancement of technology and things there. tasers and advancement of technology and things there. How you had twenty years in law enforcement, How you've had twenty years in law enforcement, how have you seen ~ things change in the law enforcement world over those how have you seen ~ things change in the law enforcement world over those two decades of service?

~ yeah, two decades of service? yeah, it's ~ a bunch. it's ~ a bunch. you know, prior to when I started.

~ you know prior to when I started there w and tasers might have been invented but there wasn't they were not on every cop. ~ It was a I remember when we got the when we got our first one, we didn't have the budget ~ to buy multiple tasers. So we had to trade them out every shift. so that's just one one thing that I've seen.

~ you know, the FTO program, like I I mentioned earlier. ~ I ended up as while I was working with the p the shi police department, I became an FTO trainer, went to specialized training for that and came back and actually had a a standardized like platform that like I wanted to make sure that that ~ before we sent you out and made you ha made you have to make those split sent you out and made you ha made you have to make those split sec second decisions that we were talking about, sec second decisions that we were talking about.

That one, you're proficient with your firearm, that one, you're proficient with your firearm. two, you are proficient in the in being able to under understand use Two, you are proficient in in being able to and understand use of force of force and when and when it cannot be applied and you and when and when it cannot be applied and ~ know basic tactics and things like that because I I just so I I I I dove into that you know, basic tactics and things like that because I I just so I I I I dove into that really trying to really trying to teach that in that capacity for the police department.

report writing stuff. I mean there is when at our notepad and pencil anymore? You don't use ~ notepad and pencil anymore? No, they used to be on ~ No, that used to be on on this is prior to my time, but I remember going through old cases and it was on it was on you know, little cards.

Like it was and and reports were essentially like And on this time and this date, observed so and so d driving erratically, made traffic stop, he was drunk, arrested. Like I mean it was like all right. Yeah it was like we covered the bases I guess. Like we covered the bases, I guess.

And you know, and and and right now, you know, with everything is definitely scrutinized I would say a bit more than that. Yeah, I was gonna say you went from that to body cams that recorded Exactly Yeah, I was gonna say you went from that to body cams that record exact everything. everything. Yeah.

So so definitely definitely an an evolving Yeah so definitely ~ definitely you know space as far as ~ techniques and equipment and so Yeah. W what are the biggest threats, Yeah. W what are the biggest threats, issues or problems that you issues or problems that you see in our community or our culture today? see in our community or our culture today?

~ what what are the things that are kinda on your radar that you're thinking about what what are the things that are kinda on your radar that you're thinking about ~ as potentially being the sheriff and the the chief law enforcement officer ~ as potentially being the sheriff and the the chief law enforcement officer in the county? What are you on the lookout for? in the county? What are you on the lookout for?

you know, I guess big picture things that I I see is that I mean The the scare of ~ illegal you know, narc narcotics, for example, would be th they're not made here. They're they're all brought here, right? And so trying to figure out how to push back against that is definitely an uphill battle. I mean, we've we have, you know, fentanyl and methamphetamine use and and just the gamut of it it's Again, there's people involved.

So it's no different than Denver or Billings in in a sense. So it's no different. it's just on a an a on a way smaller scale, right? So But we still have you know I mean we have work have a great working relationship with surrounding counties, surrounding agencies, other task force members, department DCI and so working in Yeah.

in in I guess in conjunction and harmony with with those other agencies really helps us or allows us to push back in in that area. again the thing that's been so close to to me and the things that I I walk through most of the time are ~ crimes against children and crimes against vulnerable adults. And so that really is where my my focus has always been and I would say asking asking me that question, that's where that's where my my eyes are focused. ~ asking ~ you know, a a differ a one of the other deputies.

you know the under sheriff for example is r is ~ works works and assists a lot with a lot of our our are doper narcotics cases. And so I know that's kind of the arena that he really is if you asked him that question, that would be his his prior priority or not priority, but his I guess what he his perception of of the things that that we can see in the community. So Yeah. So how is your job or your viewpoint gonna change given ~ that that you know How is your job or your viewpoint gonna change given ~ that that you know, you get to see different aspects, you get to see different aspects, different problems than other people in the department?

different problems than other people in the department moving into moving into the sheriff position where you're responsible for all of it. the sheriff position where you're responsible for all of it. what do you anticipate that change being like or how are you gonna maybe adapt what do you anticipate that change being like or how are you gonna maybe adapt to being able to see the whole picture rather than the areas that you've been to being able to see the whole picture rather than the areas that you've been focused on?

Yep, it's it's it's just I mean it's just kind of a a broader focused on? It's it's just I mean of a a broader view, right? It's just you're take a step back and look at the big picture and you're gonna have to look at there's you know there's a lot of state statutes out there, State statutes out there, right? right?

And so there's a lot of different so you have to have a And so there's a lot of different so you have to have a a really vast knowledge base a really vast knowledge base of what is a crime and what isn't a crime. of what is a and my main intent behind running for sheriff is to be able to pass along the knowledge that I have to the next generation of law enforcement because Mm. I know I mean I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna be doing it when I'm seventy two years old, right? And so I think that's that's kind of the big vision Mm.

for me is to pass along Not only the knowledge, but the desire to step into that place. step into that place, like have them have that moment when when I Like have them have that moment when when I had that moment where I said, had that moment where I said this is This is I'm drawing a line right here and I'm not gonna allow I'm gonna push back in every capacity I can against this part. And but it you also have to be just approachable and open and be able to I mean you're gonna be dealing You know, as an investigator, I deal with the child crimes, You know, as an investigator I deal with child crimes but I've I've done a lot.

but I've I've done a lot. Like I mean, Like I mean I've done white collar I've done white collar white collar crimes, you know, in the in the millions of dollars. I've done felony level thefts. I've done livestock thefts.

I've done I know ~ a couple of years ago I gave you a call and you were on a stake I know ~ a couple years ago I gave you a call and you were on a stakeout out do for a narcotics thing when we were chatting on the phone. do for a narcotics thing when we were chatting on the phone. So ~ I know your experience is pretty broad. So ~ I know your experience is pretty broad.

Yeah, and so I do have Yeah, and so I do have a a broad understanding of everything. When I when I keep going back to the the the the child stuff, I'm telling you that it was it was that moment, that defining moment of me that I mean that that's just where I mean it it it shifted something in me. And I'm I'm completely comfortable in doing a gamut of other investigations. but that was the and so yeah, I've I've I've ~ had narcotic felonies.

I've dealt with like I said, white collar crime, ~ thefts, livestock thefts. Yeah. Husbands that don't find their wives attractive anymore. That not a crime, but it was definitely a Yeah.

Not a crime, but You I've kind of segued out out of a lot of that. You know, I've kind of segued out of out of a lot of that. Most of the stuff that we get are you know, Most of the stuff that we get are you know, all the death investigations. ~ you you go through those and try to figure out, all the death investigations, ~ you know, I'm you you go through those and try to figure out, well, if is there so you have to approach that with the with the same level well, if is there so you you have to approach of intensity if you going into it as if you knew why it happened, right?

So, I mean if you have an unattended death, I'm gonna go through the the procedure, the process to to be able to figure out what occurred and why. Yeah. And so I think a big role of leadership is ~ mission and vision Yeah. So I think a big role of leadership is ~ mission and vision.

And it sounds like you have that in spades for your own career and and it sounds like you have that in spades for your own career and we're excited are excited to share that with the the rest of the department to share that with the the rest of the department of the next generations and the next generations of finding that mission and vision of how they of finding that mission and vision of how they can serve and protect. can serve and protect. absolutely. you know th the other the other aspect is that I really want to make sure that the department still continues to play well with others.

You know what I mean? Like I mean we have such a we have such a a unique position in the state of I mean like I do not know of any other agency in in Wyoming where the the police department and the John and the Sheriff's Office work under the same roof, let alone work together. And I I'm I've I've talked with a lot of different a lot of different a agencies throughout the state and they they're just absolutely floored that we can work cohesively like that. And it's not just between our two departments, but I mean we work we we assist the high patrol.

I've during one of my investigations end up writing a search warrant for a game and fish violation and and worked alongside with game and with game and fish. I've worked with ~ US Forest Service, I've worked with the FBI, I've and so you know, I have I have fostered and the the department as a whole has fostered a lot of positive interaction with multiple s state and federal level state and federal level law enforcement agencies. law enforcement agencies. and and at the end of the day it just gives us more tools in our tool belt.

at the end of the day, it just gives us more tools and our our tool belt, ~ ~ and you know, it it to help provide safety and protection safety and protection to our communities. to our communities. Is there an opinion you once held strongly that you've changed So Is there an opinion you once held strongly that you've changed because because of your experience? of your experience?

Well, going back to the the traffic stop when I was in high school. you know, my opinion of that of that officer, I would say I guess I I don't I don't necessarily I don't agree with how how he how he treated me, but I can tell you that I have a better understanding of the things that he might have been going through during his day, you know, so Mm. So I guess a yeah, I can just see that that being a a big one for me. Okay.

what mistake have you made that you learned the most from? Like career oriented? Is that what we're we're talking about or life oriented? I'm good either way.

I'm good either way. You know, I'm it's hard to hard to narrow it down. Like I have a an understanding that I'm I'm human and I'm gonna make mistakes and I'm always trying to take those mistakes and le and learn from I mean and try to try to modify the next outcome, you know, and that's the hard thing. Law enforcement is nothing's exactly the same.

You I mean, you can have a traffic stop, for example, but mo very often time it's not the same person and if it is the same person it's not the same day and if even if it is the same day you don't know what's occurred in their life between those times, right? Or and so you can kind of formulate like, Mm. okay, this these are the things that worked, these are the things that didn't work and you know, I'm gonna use that knowledge to to help promote a better outcome for that that problem, you know, the next time something similar that comes up.

it's hard to narrow it down to one because I feel like I'm learning every day. Like I'm I'm I've never not just said, I got this figured out, check, moving on to the next thing, right? Yeah. And so Yeah, it's hard for me to just to speak to to one specific thing 'cause it it it's just a a continuing loop of hey, I did this and I did this well and it worked out, so I'm gonna I'm gonna file that into do that again.

And I did this, it didn't work out well, and I'm gonna file into don't do that again. And if I'm not gonna do that again, what can I do to have a positive outcome? And that's just how I approach everything. Yeah.

I mean, it from parenting to going and buying lunch. I mean if I go to buy lunch and I don't like I better buy one. the flavor of something, I'm not gonna order that again, right? And so Yeah, it's just it's just a it's a continual loop in in in Yeah.

And so yeah, it's just it's just a it's a continual my life of of always always learning. Yeah. That's ~ one of the things like I mentioned earlier, Yeah. That's ~ one of the things like I mentioned earlier, we've been friends for a long time and one of the things that I've always we've been friends for a long time and one of the things that I've always appreciated about you is that ~ humility and humble spirit and ~ y appreciated about you is that ~ humility and humble spirit and y you you never have been the guy that thinks he has all the answers.

you you never have been the guy that thinks he has all the answers. And has a lot of wisdom from it. I y you're you've always ~ been the guy that's made all the mistakes and has a lot of wisdom from it. and I appreciate that.

and I appreciate that. I think you look at ~ I think you look at pretty much everything you do as what could have gone better, pretty much everything you do as w what could have gone better, how could I improve this? And ~ rather than getting stuck in a rut of how could I improve this and ~ rather than getting stuck in a rut of to use your example, you know, to use your example, you know, the traffic stops, well, okay, the traffic stops, well, okay. all of go bad, so I'm just gonna be be mean, All of go bad so I'm just gonna be mean, be gruff, be condescending, ~ but yet you be gruff, be condescending, ~ but yet you always reflect on it and and try to find a way to make it better.

always reflect on it and and try to find a way to make it better. So or on the flip side of that I've seen, So that I've seen you know, I've seen officers where they spend, the first thirty minutes of their their shift or whatever watching videos on the internet of traffic stops that have gone bad, right? And so and send then you're showing up to the the table with that Right. So and it's in then you're showing up to the the table with that and and all of a sudden all of a sudden might not want to make traffic stops, right?

Because you've just you've just conditioned your brain that You've just you've just conditioned your brain. cop gets pulled over and gets caught flat footed and and loses his life. I mean and that's all over the I mean you know it's all over the internet and trying to trying to find that happy balance of like okay trying to trying to find that happy balance of like okay, and knowing that knowing that this is an option, and knowing that knowing that this is an option. this can happen, I need to be prepared physically, mentally, with my tools to be able to protect myself or people around me or whatever and still walk up to the door and be approachable and, you know, be me.

Be be a guy that that they walk away and say, Well, he might have gave me a ticket, but not a bad guy. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

You actually had I've actually had ~ some people that I've arrested for felony level stuff that have ~ reached out to me. And these are the things that that I just didn't I wasn't prepared for when I threw my name in the in the arena. but they said, Man, as you know, I'm a felon, can't vote for you but if I could I would and and because Mm. And because the way you you You didn't talk down to me.

You treated me with respect and dignity through it. And I'm telling you what, that's I mean, that's a sense of pride for me that I I do have. It's like, you know what? I set this goal twenty years ago and I mean You know what?

I set this goal twenty years ago. to that takes a that takes a lot of ~ selflessness on that person's part to me that takes a that takes a lot of ~ selflessness on that person's part to to be able to say, Hey man, to be able to say, Hey man like you treated me all right. I did bad things. ~ ~ but But through the process I was treated through the process house.

like a human being and I appreciate you for that. Like getting comments like that that just texts like randomly when you're when Yeah. Getting comments like that that just text is like randomly. you put yourself out in the you know, the all of a sudden find myself in the political arena.

Like I mean that that's a conversation I would have never had. That's a conversation I would have never had. You're right. Yeah, you know, so that's been You're right.

But, you know, so that's been really that was an eye opening interaction and just having You know, and having not just one but multiple people, you know, say hey, dude, it's I I've even before you decide to run for sheriff, I I've even before you decide to run for sheriff, we've experienced that together. we've experienced that together. I've been out with you and people have come up and you know, I've been out with you and people have come up and you know, hey yeah, this guy arrested me and you know, hey yeah, this guy arrested me and you know, he's a great guy.

you you definitely have respect for the people that you've great guy. and that's you definitely have respect for the people that you've interacted with, ~ even if that's in a a negative manner. interacted with, ~ even if that's in a a negative manner. that's that that was always like again, that was the at the very beginning of my law enforcement career, that was one of the goals that I set.

For myself was like I'm and I haven't been perfect. I haven't. I mean it's it's I mean I guarantee you there's some people that are listening to this right now and say, Well, he wasn't all that nice to me that day. Yeah.

But I can tell you the intent there, the the heart was was always there, big picture stuff. That's that was always one of my drivers was to do that. ~ so Yeah. And I know ~ you told the story about kinda getting into I know ~ you told the story about kinda getting into law enforcement law enforcement and that maybe reluctant isn't the right word, and that maybe reluctant isn't the right word but it was you know, but it was you know, it it wasn't your initial ambition, it it wasn't your initial ambition, your dream, what you were headed for, your dream that you were headed for, but you kinda came into it ~ through circumstances.

but you kinda came into it ~ through circumstances. I understand maybe this campaign and running for sheriff came about I understand maybe this campaign and running for sheriff came about in a similar way. in a similar way. Do you want to speak to that at all?

Do you want to speak to that at all? What what inspired you or drove you to What what inspired you or drove you to move from investigator to sheriff? move from investigator to sheriff. Sure.

~ well again, I was just nose down doing my thing, working ~ investigations, which is which is really what I enjoy the most. I mean I th as far as the aspects of the job, like they're just they're complex. It's not and so I I really enjoy working through large, complex cases, it it's rewarding to me. It helps feel and I feel like I'm big picture stuff.

you know, whether I'm doing it for that little girl that was sitting on my foot or doing it from some the victim that just was you know, that just lost eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars through an embezzlement, you know. Whatever the case is, like I feel like it's it's it's big picture stuff. And th the reality is I'm not gonna stop doing that. Like I'm if I become the sheriff, I'm still gonna work.

I just don't know in that ca what capacity, but I'm not gonna just step out of that role. Step out of that role. Like Like I'm I'm a professional peace officer and if a shift needs covered or you know, someone calls in sick. I've been there, right?

I've I've had the I've had the the three year old and the one year old at home and the wife that is like, I am to my max, I need help. And if there's nobody else to do that, I'm that that's gonna be my role. That's as a leader I think that's what you do is you step in and and and I can't ask people to do anything that I haven't that I wouldn't do. And so that's my my big vision is to still be a a a working sheriff and still because I can't I can tell people like hey do the X, Y, and Z, but if you say we get a ~ a felony level case to to be able to to walk along and are beside a deputy that might have three walk along and n or beside a deputy that might have three years years of experience that's never worked a felony level case from beginning to end.

of experience that's never worked a felony level case from beginning to end. Like just Like just how's he gonna learn that? If there isn't somebody there to train or How's he gonna learn that if if there isn't somebody there to train and to pass that along. I mean you can read you can read cases, to pass that along?

I mean, you can read. you can read cases, you can you can try to fumble your way through writing you can you can try to fumble your way through writing a search warrant, a search warrant, but it'd be it'd be silly if you have a man that but it'd be it'd be silly if you have a man that has the knowledge and the ability to write a search warrant and walk search warrant and walk you through that process, you through that process, you know, it's just an example. So I still feel like I'm gonna feel f you know, just an example.

So I still feel like I'm gonna feel you know, be in that capacity to a certain certain degree. you know, be in that capacity to a certain d certain degree. I understand there's a lot more there's a lot more dynamics in in in that seat, I understand there's a lot more there's a lot more dynamics in in in that seat, but but I'm not going to just set down being a cop. Yeah.

So w what was it that made you decide to run for sheriff? Yeah. So wha what was it that made you decide to run for sheriff? Yep.

So I was happy where I was at and Yep. So I was happy where I was at and ~ the sheriff, a current sheriff, had kind of you know, probably three months ago, had told everybody like he was gonna run for another term and the overall I think takeaway was like, cool, like we'll just keep business as usual. And that decision shifted and you know, he came he came to us and said, ~ I'm you know, for other reasons in my life I'm not gonna I'm not gonna run for sheriff. And that led to, you know Not all the employees, but you know, a a group of employees sitting down just kind of like kinda like shock, like, no, what what's that look like next?

What's that look like for the sheriff's office? What's that look like for the community? and so we all started pointing fingers, like, are you gonna run? Are you gonna do it?

Someone needs to step up, so and and I had multiple people say you should run for sheriff and it just wasn't in my it wasn't in my ~ that wasn't a that was that wasn't in my thought process at all. And the more Matter of fact, I I t I told several people like if there's somebody else that Matter of fact, I t I t I told several people like if there's somebody else that is that is better suited that the entire department can get behind and and and lead, is better suited that the entire department.

then I'll back that person. And you know, I kept getting, no, that that's you. Like we'll we will we will support you. And I very plainly, I wouldn't want the job if I didn't have the support of the people there.

Because really it's hard to it's hard to be Really it's hard to it's hard to be it's hard to take something in a positive direction if you're fighting It's hard to take something in a positive direction if you're fighting all your battles behind you. And so I wanted to make sure I'm sure there there all your battles behind you. Right. And so I wanted to make sure I'm sure there there may be maybe may be maybe employees there that that might ~ employees there that that might not a hundred percent be on board.

I don't know. I guess they haven't come up and said that to me, but I've had a an overwhelming majority of them come and say, I'd absolutely work. for you and we'll work for you and continue to do the things that we're doing. Of the things I've been doing.

So ~ I went home and ~ again I So do I do what I always do. I retreated to the outdoors because that's that's where 'Cause that's that's where I and like when things get really, I like when things get really, really bad and you know I I I deal with it and then I'm just like bye Kathy. really bad then Like and so anyway I was I was fishing and just thinking and processing through it and like a lot of things in my life I'm are always analogies and I like the one analogy that kept popping into my head and and just so you know, I mean there was a ton of prayer over it and like like just to to check check a ton of prayer over it, like like just to to check check my my heart, my my heart, like check my motivations, like check my motivations, check you know, che you know, just all of those things and and this is the analogy that kept popping just all of those things and and this is the analogy that kept popping into my head.

into my head. Like I just feel like we were sitting on a train Like I just feel like we were sitting on a train and the conductor just stood and the conductor just stood up and said, up and said I'm no longer driving. I'm no longer driving. And, you know, I looked left, I look right, and everyone's kinda looking left and looking right back at me.

And in my mind, at that point, I have three options. I can either sit down, learn how to drive, I can jump off the train, or I can sit right where I'm at and wait for the unknown, wait for a crash. And the only two proactive choices I have in in that scenario is jump or to sit down and learn how to drive and I'm just not ready to jump from law enforcement, you know. I just couldn't I just couldn't I couldn't take that leap, you know, and I just feel like this is this is a absolutely what I've been called to do in in a certain capacity as far as being in law enforcement and and like I said, stepping in that in that gap and helping that girl and so many others and It's just a it's been a fulfilling and rewarding part of my job, but I also feel like I've been It's not a mistake that God led my life from fishing guide to law enforcement.

mistake that God led my life from fishing. ~ I do feel like he has used me in that capacity and I don't feel like Yeah. I'm being called to be not used in that capacity. So it was sit down, learn how to drive.

And so that's what we're that's what we're gonna do. Cool. Well I know ~ yeah, you've had a few specialized roles Cool. Well, I know ~ yeah, you've had a few specialized roles in the police department and the sheriff's department.

in the police department and the sheriff's department. y you've pursued a lot of additional education outside of just you've pursued a lot of additional education outside of just the the police academy. the the police academy. You have thousands of hours of training You have thousands of hours of training and firearms and investigation and firearms and investigation and use of force and ~ teaching.

and use of force and ~ teaching. I know i i I know it you and I have interacted, you ~ listen to audio books and read some books. you and I have interacted, you listen to audio books and read some books, you've had some mentors in your life that have walked with you. you've had some mentors in your life that have walked with you.

W what has been your best resource to grow as a leader? What has been your best resource to grow as a leader? being around men that are leaders. paying attention to 'Cause there's I've worked I've worked for bosses that are filling that role as my boss, but they're not a leader, you know, and and I've seen I've seen that in in a couple of different areas of my life, but I think that to me is the the biggest is is learning and paying attention from leaders that are that that have been in influential in my life.

~ they might not have had the title, but they were definitely leaders in their area. you know, and I'm sure there's when you're, you know, in construction working crews, there's guys that that might not be the foreman of that operation, but people naturally go to because they're approachable, because they have the answer or if they don't know the answer they're they're their pride will allow them to say, say I don't know, I'm gonna go figure that out. I don't know. Let me go figure that out.

Right. And so these are all ~ natural traits to being a a leader. Right. And so these are all natural traits to being And when you see that and actually see it play out and it's not it's not faked.

It's not forged. It's it's true leadership. It doesn't matter what title you're what title you're at or what you're what hat you're wearing, I pay attention. Because I've I've learned from from leaders in every arena in my life.

It sounds like with the the support of Yeah. And it sounds like with the the support of the department and your coworkers, the department and your coworkers, it sounds like maybe you're one of those guys now that has the experience, it sounds like maybe you're one of those guys now that has the experience, the leadership that people come to, the leadership that people come to. I'll tell you what, it's been a it's d I mean, what an honor. I mean you know, I mean, believe it or not, the you know, law enforcement community with a bunch of type A personalities.

~ we're not walking around just saying, Man, you're just so doing such a great job like keep it up, buddy. Like you don't see that in construction very often. Yeah, you know, it's just you know, it frankly, I mean if you like somebody you just make fun of That that's kind Yeah. of the and I'm sure construction's the same way, right?

You're just but actually to have when the dust all settles and actually have ~ people that I that I one hundred percent admire and respect. say hey like I've been paying attention, I see you and I know that you have the abilities to do this job and I'll follow you. Like what a humbling thing to and you know i it's honoring but it's also like you take that pretty serious. Like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna squander that and and I'm gonna try to still live up to the same standard that they they have for me.

So Yeah. Yeah. So what advice would you have for a young person that wants to do what you've done, So what advice would you have for a young person that wants to do what you've done, that wants to build a career in law enforcement and serve their community that wants to build a career in law enforcement and serve their community in that way? in that way?

Well, if you're if that's if you're driven to do that, don't start as a fishing guide. I would say go you know, to a you know, you can go to college and get a you know, associate's degree in criminal justice, I think that would be a huge leg up. I mean, some some people will come, you know, we hire people from the military. But I truly I think th one of the the biggest assets you can have And I I do feel like being a fishing guide absolutely set me up to succeed.

It's just to be able to interact with human beings. Like be able to pay attention and not just what they're saying but how they're acting, what they're what they're doing and ~ being able to read kind of between the lines on some things when people say, Yep, everything's fine and but every part of their body language is saying things aren't right. Like like figure out how to pry that out or not pry that out, that's not the right terminology, but to sit and be that person that they're they're willing to share those things with.

~ whether it's sit down at four o'clock in the morning and talk talk Sit down at four o'clock in the morning and talk to a lady that doesn't feel seen anymore in her home to being able to sit down and talk to a an eight year old that has gone through some, you know, some horrific physical abuse or something and just doesn't know just doesn't know if if she can share that story because I don't know if if she can share that story because I don't know if it's what's gonna happen.

if it's what's gonna happen. If I if I speak to this and then If I if I speak to this and then you take it and you don't believe me or you take it and you don't do your you take it and you don't believe me or you take it and you don't do your job or if you take it and thinks the system fails me, job or if you take it and things the system fails me, I have to go back to I have to go back to that area environment. I have to go back to him. I have to go back to that era environment.

And so And so yeah, I think being having phenomenal people skills is probably the number one thing that I would say ~ and however you cultivate that in your life, would be my encouragement. Okay. Okay. Well, this is my ~ favorite question that I ask of every guest.

This is my ~ favorite question that I ask of every guest. you've mentioned it a little bit, you've mentioned it a little bit, but are you a person of a particular faith tradition? but are you a person of a particular faith tradition? And if so, how does that impact your career, And if so, how does that impact your career, your leadership?

your leadership? For sure. ~ yeah, I'm a I'm a believer in Jesus Christ and he absolutely saved my life and I I mean, speaking about in those darker moments of my life. I was working on a ranch.

Like so when I was guiding fishermen I'd I'd float down the river and then I'd also guide on a on a ranch south of Casper. And if I didn't have fishermen, they would have I'd just do day ranch work. And I got I was working on a a project with a gentleman. and like things would just happen like in our day.

We were and, you know, whether it was the weather or whether it was people that like failed or we forgot to get, you know, the the parts that were supposed to be shipped out to finish the task weren't there, you know, just just frustrations and I I just kept thinking my I'm like it it frustrated me and I was just the the sidekick, It it frustrated me and I was just the the sidekick, you know. I was and and he just always approached everything in just such you know, I wasn't and and he just always approached everything in just such a manner that was like, you know what?

a manner that was like, you know what? Well he just We'll he just came to every approached every problem with came to every approached every problem with like a a phenomenal attitude and and and just graced other people and just and finally like I was I got kinda frustrated. I'm like he something happened and I was like, Something happened and I was like, Why is he not mad? Like I'm mad that he's not mad Why is he not mad?

Like I'm mad but he's not mad And so I just called him out on it and I said, And so I just called him out on it and I said, Grant, like what is going on with you? Brant, like what is going on with you? And And like why is this happening? Like I I saw something in that man that I I didn't understand, but I thought, man, that's how do I imitate that?

How do I how do I get that in my life? And that and that day sitting out in Shirley Basin, Wyoming on a project, I had the the gospel of Jesus ~ I I knew the Bible. I I mean I knew I could I could quote scripture, I could I'd been to church, but I had never seen that lived out, you know, in a in a person so tangibly close to me and see what what actual grace So really looked like when when, you know someone is shining that light in in their lives and and I wanted it and so you know we we ~ we just star that started a long summer conversations about that and I just started just digging into it, trying to figure out like who is who is this Jesus guy and and like but in the back of my mind that's when I said earlier that I wouldn't change anything in my life, you know, even the like my knee injury and all those things.

Like pre that prior to that, like my mind was like, I'm I'm not the baddest guy. I'm not the worst guy in the world. Like I'm I I make you know, good decisions, I'm get decent grades, I I don't do terrible things. I've never killed anybody.

Like, you know, I'm thinking to myself, I'm thinking myself what? like, hey, you I'm I'm I'm winning and and my standard was always like again, you can if you if you if you feel like you're a C average or below in in a certain area of your life, it's really easy to look at the people that are you know, getting Fs in that in that area, In that in that area, right? right? You don't look at the people that are have that have B plus averages, right?

So it's always easier to just to look and and compare yourself how you wanna sell it to yourself. And really in that that moment I in that season of my life I just really started questioning like, man, if if this God thing's real and like I'm I'm it's not looking well for me. Like I am a I have been a liar. Mm.

I have been a thief. I have coveted other people's stuff. Like I mean, you know, you start going through all of the going through You know, you start going through all of the going through the check boxes the check boxes and I'm like, it ain't looking good for you, and I'm like, it ain't looking good for you. Adrian.

And and I tell you that's that's the that's the that's And and I tell you that's that's the that's the that's the profound mystery the profound mystery and the amazing beauty of of Christ is when you feel what love in the amazing really feels like and when that grace is poured on you And so yeah, that has definitely been a defining thing in my life. And I do try to filter things in my life through that lens first. And I there there's been times and I've I've worked with people that you know that are openly not Christian and there's I I've walked away from some calls and I'm just like I don't I couldn't walk away from this.

I couldn't I couldn't do the job without having that faith that knowing that there that there is a a creator that Mm. And all things will work. glorify him and and and i through him so in my mind i there there's things that i've seen and done that i just and been a part of that as a as a man as a as a cop as a dad as a that you're just like there's no there's no possible way that good can come of this it's just evil and but just knowing that You know, that ~ that he is ultimately sovereign over all of it and you submit your life to Christ.

and and trust and and put your faith put your trust in that. And not just not just by the words, but truly open handedly put your trust in that he he loved that little girl hugging my leg more than I could. He loves that mom that lost their Mm-hmm. He loves.

son to addiction more than I could. And I just feel like ~ that that's the filter that that everything has to go through. It's like I don't understand it. I don't know why, but that's why you're God and I'm not.

And like my job is to have faith and trust in you and Yeah. I'm not saying I succeed every day I'm human. I I still sometimes see a problem and just wanna automatically like how can I strategize or how can I do this to make it benefit what I think the outcome needs to be. And well, you know, as soon as you there's times where There's times where no matter how hard you're trying to to do something, No matter how hard you're trying to to do something, if it's not if it's not in the cards, if it's not if it's not in the cards, if it's not if it's not God's timing or his will isn't behind it, if it's not if it's not God's timing or his will isn't behind it, it's not happening, right?

And so and there's a lesson to be learned from that it's not happening, right? So and there's a lesson to be learned from that. too. And so yeah, for sure.

Well that seems like a a great place to kind Great. Well that seems like a a great place to kind of wrap things up. of wrap things up. Before we go, Before we go, ~ is there anything you'd like to say to the audience or ~ is there anything you'd like to say to the audience or to ~ future constituents?

to ~ future constituents? really, I just thank you, Erick for ha giving me opportunity to to come and and speak with you. Like it's been it's been enjoyable to kinda walk through you know, it's just you get your day to day life, you don't you don't really go back and try to extract things out of your past, you know, that you're thinking about. So it's been it's been awesome experience for me just to to talk about it and Great.

Great. Well, thank you for taking the time. Well thank you for taking the time. I know ~ yeah, you're in a busy season of life with ~ work I know ~ yeah, you're in a busy season of life with ~ work and family and and now a campaign.

family and and now a campaign so I really appreciate you taking the time So I really appreciate you taking the time to share your story with us and to share your story with us and ~ learn a little bit more about law enforcement. ~ learn a little bit more about law enforcement. And thank you guys for joining us here on From the Ground Up Show. Absolutely.

And thank you guys for joining us here on From the Ground Up Show. Again, help me out. Take a moment, Again, help me out, take a moment, like, share, follow, subscribe on YouTube, like, share, follow, subscribe on YouTube, your favorite podcast platform, your favorite podcast platform and on social media. and on social media.

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